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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / April 2007

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Treatment shows promise against diabetes

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rk - 11 Apr 2007 03:31 GMT
I saw this on the 5pm news tonight but didn't catch all of it, so I looked
it up and thought I would share it with the group.
Thankfully there seems to be some sort of a end in sight... hopefully if we
can get stem cell studies allowed here in the
US, LOL yeah right... 2008 can't come FAST enough for me... Enjoy reading..

---------------------
Apr 10, 4:03 PM EDT

Treatment shows promise against diabetes
By LINDSEY TANNER
AP Medical Writer

CHICAGO (AP) -- Thirteen young diabetics in Brazil have ditched their
insulin shots and need no other medication thanks to a risky, but promising
treatment with their own stem cells - apparently the first time such a feat
has been accomplished.   Though too early to call it a cure, the procedure
has enabled the young people, who have Type I diabetes, to live
insulin-free so far, some as long as three years. The treatment involves
stem cell transplants from the patients' own blood.   "It's the first time
in the history of Type 1 diabetes where people have gone with no treatment
whatsoever ... no medications at all, with normal blood sugars," said study
co-author Dr. Richard Burt of Northwestern University's medical school in
Chicago.

While the procedure can be potentially life-threatening, none of the 15
patients in the study died or suffered lasting side effects. But it didn't
work for two of them.
Larger, more rigorous studies are needed to determine if stem cell
transplants could become standard treatment for people with the disease
once called juvenile diabetes. It is less common than Type 2 diabetes,
which is associated with obesity. <-- (I didn't say this Cheri.. the news
ppl did!)

The hazards of stem cell transplantation also raise questions about whether
the study should have included children. One patient was as young as 14.
Dr. Lainie Ross, a medical ethicist at the University of Chicago, said the
researchers should have studied adults first before exposing young teens to
the potential harms of stem cell transplant, which include infertility and
late-onset cancers.

In addition, Ross said that the study should have had a comparison group to
make sure the treatment was indeed better than standard diabetes care.
Burt, who wrote the study protocol, said the research was done in Brazil
because U.S. doctors were not interested in the approach. The study was
approved by ethics committees in Brazil, he said, adding that he personally
believes it was appropriate to do the research in children as well as
adults, as long as the Brazilian ethics panels approved.

Burt and other diabetes experts called the results an important step
forward.  "It's the threshold of a very promising time for the field," said
Dr. Jay Skyler of the Diabetes Research Institute at the University of
Miami.  Skyler wrote an editorial in the Journal of the American Medical
Association, which published the study, saying the results are likely to
stimulate research that may lead to methods of preventing or reversing Type
I diabetes.

"These are exciting results. They look impressive," said Dr. Gordon Weir of
Joslin Diabetes Center in Boston.
Still, Weir cautioned that more studies are needed to make sure the
treatment works and is safe. "It's really too early to suggest to people
that this is a cure," he said.

The patients involved were ages 14 to 31 and newly diagnosed with Type 1
diabetes. An estimated 12 million to 24 million people worldwide -
including 1 to 2 million in the United States - have this form of diabetes,
which is typically diagnosed in children or young adults. An autoimmune
disease, it occurs when the body attacks insulin-producing cells in the
pancreas.

Insulin is needed to regulate blood sugar levels, which when too high, can
lead to heart disease, blindness, nerve problems and kidney damage.
Burt said the stem cell transplant is designed to stop the body's immune
attack on the pancreas.

A study published last year described a different kind of experimental
transplant, using pancreas cells from donated cadavers, that enabled a few
diabetics to give up insulin shots. But that requires lifelong use of
anti-rejection medicine, which isn't needed by the Brazil patients since
the stem cells were their own.
The 15 diabetics were treated at a bone marrow center at the University of
Sao Paulo.

All were newly diagnosed, before their insulin-producing cells had been
destroyed.

That timing is key, Burt said. "If you wait too long," he said, "you've
exceeded the body's ability to repair itself."

The procedure involves stimulating the body to produce new stem cells and
harvesting them from the patient's blood. Next comes several days of
high-dose chemotherapy, which virtually shuts down the patient's immune
system and stops destruction of the few remaining insulin-producing cells
in the body. This requires hospitalization and potent drugs to fend off
infection. The harvested stem cells, when injected back into the body,
build a new healthier immune system that does not attack the
insulin-producing cells.

Patients were hospitalized for about three weeks. Many had side effects
including nausea, vomiting and hair loss. One developed pneumonia, the only
severe complication.   Doctors changed the drug regimen after the treatment
failed in the first patient, who ended up needing more insulin than before
the study. Another patient also relapsed.  The remaining 13 "live a normal
life without taking insulin," said study co-author Dr. Julio Voltarelli of
the University of Sao Paulo. "They all went back to their lives."  The
patients enrolled in the study at different times so the length of time
they've been insulin-free also differs.
Burt has had some success using the same procedure in 170 patients with
other autoimmune diseases, including lupus and multiple sclerosis; one
patient with an autoimmune form of blindness can now see, Burt said.

"The body has tremendous potential to repair," he said.

The study was partly funded by the Brazilian Ministry of Health, Genzyme
Corp. and a maker of blood sugar monitoring products.

---
AP reporter Carla K. Johnson in Chicago contributed to this report.
---
On the Net:
JAMA: http://jama.ama-assn.org
Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation: http://www.jdrf.org
© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DIABETES_EXPERIMENT?SITE=OKOKL&SECTION=HO
ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT


Signature

Reisa, T1
dx-5/00 asd-7/00
Animas IR1250 pumper
Symlin 1u, 30gm meals
Daily CHO: 150-175gm
TDD: 36-38u
Last A1C: coming down.

Alan S - 11 Apr 2007 05:00 GMT
> The remaining 13 "live a normal
>life without taking insulin," said study co-author Dr. Julio Voltarelli of
>the University of Sao Paulo.

I did some searching on his name and diabetes on Highwire
and came up with this:

http://tinyurl.com/yop8qw or
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/297/14/1568?maxtoshow=&HITS=&hits=
&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=Voltarelli&fulltext=diabetes&andorexactfulltext=and&searc
hid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&fdate=1/1/2004&resourcetype=HWCIT

Autologous Nonmyeloablative Hematopoietic Stem Cell
Transplantation in Newly Diagnosed Type 1 Diabetes Mellitus

or a pdf full text of the same article:
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/reprint/297/14/1568

While doing that, I came across this, which our MS readers
may find interesting:
http://tinyurl.com/2xnmw5
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0100-879X2006005000015&t
lng=es&lng=en&nrm=iso

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: A Pause to Reflect
Flying Rat - 11 Apr 2007 11:17 GMT
> > The remaining 13 "live a normal
> >life without taking insulin," said study co-author Dr. Julio Voltarelli of
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
> latest: A Pause to Reflect

The BBC have a stripped-down version at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6541887.stm

which covers the bases

Ratty
Billie - 11 Apr 2007 19:54 GMT
: While doing that, I came across this, which our MS readers
: may find interesting:

Now, if you could just find something encouraging for your MG reader.  ;-)
It is even hard to remember the name.....  Jim often has to ask me how to
pronounce it.  I am rereading a book by a myasthenia-er for encouragement
while awaiting insurance approval for the IVIG treatment.  There is also a
bulletin board for the treatment for a different cause that I have read
occassionally (where I first learned of the treatment, in fact, to push my
neuro for it), that I might wander over to.  Like with the diabetes, you go
wherever you might learn anything that might help your disease.  Some do not
understand becoming immersersed in the illness to the point of searching and
reading any and everything you can on the subjet.  Nicky made a comment to
this affect in another thread.  It has helped with my appointments with my
MG neuro because he did not have to explain details about the disease and
treatments to me, giving us more useable time.  *He* has told me to use the
Internet for information.  There just is not enough information anywhere
else for me.

Thanks for all your Internet searches, Alan.  I, for one, really do
appreciate them, and do check them out as much as possible.  Again, I
repeat, my endo highly endorses this newsgroup (that is for several years
now), and encourages my participation here.  He asked about the
name/location back in the early 2000s when I started, and I do not know if
he has ever visited or not (forget to ask ;-), but he acted like he intended
on doing so.  He is a strong computer/internet user.  Good one on one doc.
Can you tell I really do like him????  <vbg>

Just remember that age, or the difference in age often makes a difference in
our perception of things, and often helps in understanding why others react
the way they do.  ;-)  Doesn't always keep down my ire, but if I give myself
long enough, it helps.  lol

Hugs,
Billie
Alan S - 12 Apr 2007 00:51 GMT
<nice things:)>

>Just remember that age, or the difference in age often makes a difference in
>our perception of things, and often helps in understanding why others react
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Hugs,
>Billie

I'm being reminded of that regularly at the moment. When I
moved up here I bought the duplex units next door as well as
the house, to be an investment property; something which
made it easier to retire.

It never occurred to me then that one of the tenants would
eventually be my 82yo mum. A long story, but she just moved
in next door. The different perception of things is becoming
quite clear:-)

I love my mum, and so does my wife, but the different way of
looking at things can be, well, interesting at times...

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Athens and The Adriatic
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 11 Apr 2007 11:20 GMT
> I saw this on the 5pm news tonight but didn't catch all of it, so I looked
> it up and thought I would share it with the group.
[quoted text clipped - 121 lines]
>
> http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DIABETES_EXPERIMENT?SITE=OKOKL&SECTION=HO
ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

The lifelong immunosuppression starting from childhood is not wise.

Here the "cure" is potentially worse than the disease.

May GOD bless you.

Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com

May HIS immortal brethren pray for our dying mortal friends and
neighbors:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts

In memory of our dearly departed Bob(this one) Pastorio:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love

The Official SMC FAQ List:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheTruth/FAQ
percy - 11 Apr 2007 11:37 GMT
>>A study published last year described a different kind of experimental
>>transplant, using pancreas cells from donated cadavers, that enabled a few
>>diabetics to give up insulin shots. But that requires lifelong use of
>>anti-rejection medicine, which isn't needed by the Brazil patients since
>>the stem cells were their own.
snip

> The lifelong immunosuppression starting from childhood is not wise.

Obviously, you are a moron.

> Here the "cure" is potentially worse than the disease.

screed snipped
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 11 Apr 2007 23:59 GMT
> > The lifelong immunosuppression starting from childhood is not wise.
>
> Obviously, you are a moron.

Name-calling simply shows that you remain convicted by the Holy
Spirit:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts

> > Here the "cure" is potentially worse than the disease.

> > "The hazards of stem cell transplantation also raise questions about whether
> > the study should have included children. One patient was as young as 14.
> > Dr. Lainie Ross, a medical ethicist at the University of Chicago, said the
> > researchers should have studied adults first before exposing young teens to
> > the potential harms of stem cell transplant, which include infertility and
> > late-onset cancers."

Because type-1 diabetes in an autoimmune disease with antibodies
against beta-islet pancreatic cells, lifelong immunosuppression is
required even though the stem-cell transplant is autologous.  Such
immunosuppression does result in infertility and late-onset cancers.

May GOD bless you.

Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com

May HIS immortal brethren pray for our dying mortal friends and
neighbors:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts

In memory of our dearly departed Bob(this one) Pastorio:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love

The Official SMC FAQ List:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheTruth/FAQ
Cary Kittrell - 12 Apr 2007 00:49 GMT
> > > The lifelong immunosuppression starting from childhood is not wise.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> against beta-islet pancreatic cells, lifelong immunosuppression is
> required even though the stem-cell transplant is autologous.  

One course. Not "lifelong".  

Not dissimilar to bone marrow transplants in that respect.

> Such
> immunosuppression does result in infertility and late-onset cancers.

One-time short-term immunosuppression results in infertility and late-onset
cancers?

Citations, please:

-- carr

> May GOD bless you.
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> The Official SMC FAQ List:
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheTruth/FAQ
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 12 Apr 2007 12:05 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> One course. Not "lifelong".

Lifelong.

> Not dissimilar to bone marrow transplants in that respect.

Beta islet cells are located in the pancreas and not the bone marrow.

> > Such
> > immunosuppression does result in infertility and late-onset cancers.
>
> One-time short-term immunosuppression results in infertility and late-onset
> cancers?

See above.

> Citations, please:

You may certainly refer to the article in the OP where "infertility
and late-onset cancers" have been described as the anticipated
consequences of stem cell transplant in type-1 diabetics.

May GOD bless you.

Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com

May HIS immortal brethren pray for our dying mortal friends and
neighbors:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts

In memory of our dearly departed Bob(this one) Pastorio:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love

The Official SMC FAQ List:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheTruth/FAQ
Cary Kittrell - 12 Apr 2007 17:39 GMT
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Lifelong.

Nope.

    A study published last year described a different kind of experimental
   transplant, using pancreas cells from donated cadavers, that enabled a few
   diabetics to give up insulin shots. But that requires lifelong use of
   anti-rejection medicine, which isn't needed by the Brazil patients since
   the stem cells were their own.

> > Not dissimilar to bone marrow transplants in that respect.
>
> Beta islet cells are located in the pancreas and not the bone marrow.

I'm quite familiar with that, just as I am wearily familiar with
your being disingenuously literal when cornered.

> > > Such
> > > immunosuppression does result in infertility and late-onset cancers.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> and late-onset cancers" have been described as the anticipated
> consequences of stem cell transplant in type-1 diabetics.

The opinion of one person; obviously others disagreed.  Which
is why I was asking for citations: you know, published data.

-- cary
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 13 Apr 2007 00:33 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Nope.

Wiping out the immune system with high dose cyclophosphamide and anti-
thymic antibodies to "reset" it  for an autologous stem cell
transplant that results in the attenuated or loss of autoantibodies
against pancreatic beta islet cells is lifelong immunosuppression
because this "conditioning" treatment does not have specific targeting
properties.

Source:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/297/14/1568

Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com

May HIS immortal brethren pray for our dying mortal friends and
neighbors:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts

In memory of our dearly departed Bob(this one) Pastorio:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love

The Official SMC FAQ List:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheTruth/FAQ
Cary Kittrell - 13 Apr 2007 01:18 GMT
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>
> http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/297/14/1568

Nope.  This article nowhere says that a general nuking
of the celluar arm results in "lifelong immunosuppression".

The only thing remotely related to such a statment is their
observation of a loss of some memory T-cells.  That's
some degree of immuno-forgetting -- and thus unfortunate --
but hardly "lifelong immunosuppression".

- cary
Mu - 13 Apr 2007 01:17 GMT
> The opinion of one person; obviously others disagreed.  Which
> is why I was asking for citations: you know, published data.
>
> -- cary

Curious, your scientific background is....?
Melchizedek - 13 Apr 2007 00:21 GMT
>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
> The Official SMC FAQ List:
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheTruth/FAQ

  Hi,

  I believe it is Type 1, that 14 out of 16 people were able to get off
  medication.  That's great, and another item is great about it is that
  ADULT STEM CELLS, NOT embryo stem cells are the ones
  that are providing the cure.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 13 Apr 2007 11:14 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>    I believe it is Type 1, that 14 out of 16 people were able to get off
>    medication.

Correct.

>    That's great, and another item is great about it is that
>    ADULT STEM CELLS, NOT embryo stem cells are the ones
>    that are providing the cure.

Yes.

What is not so great is that for this research, children were
subjected to permanent damage to their immune systems (ie lifelong
immunosuppression).

This was not approved by the IRBs in this country so the investigators
moved their research to Brazil.

May GOD bless you.

Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com

May HIS immortal brethren pray for our dying mortal friends and
neighbors:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts

In memory of our dearly departed Bob(this one) Pastorio:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love

The Official SMC FAQ List:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheTruth/FAQ
shoot@llspammersOnsite.com - 13 Apr 2007 03:14 GMT
Cary, never take medical advicxe from someone who dresses like
http://www.jackanapes.ws/2pdcat.html
Meat Plow - 12 Apr 2007 00:53 GMT
>> > The lifelong immunosuppression starting from childhood is not wise.
>>
>> Obviously, you are a moron.
>
> Name-calling simply shows that you remain convicted by the Holy
> Spirit:

Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?

Signature

#1 Offishul Ruiner of Usenet, March 2007
#1 Usenet a.shole, March 2007
#1 Bartlo Pset, March 13-24 2007
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COOSN-266-06-25794

Phineas T Puddleduck - 12 Apr 2007 00:56 GMT
> >> > The lifelong immunosuppression starting from childhood is not wise.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?

Assuming he has patients, of course.

Signature

Got mail? I did ;-) Three and counting.
Got proof? Not yet, still waiting.

Mu - 12 Apr 2007 05:59 GMT
>> Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?
>
> Assuming he has patients, of course.

Wanna try me on this?
I KILLED YOUR GOD---IT WAS FUN! - 12 Apr 2007 06:31 GMT
>>> Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?
>>
>> Assuming he has patients, of course.
>
> Wanna try me on this?
yep.
The Secretary of HomIntern - 12 Apr 2007 09:08 GMT
>>>> Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?
>>> Assuming he has patients, of course.
>> Wanna try me on this?
> yep.

pus$y
Mu - 13 Apr 2007 01:17 GMT
>>>> Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?
>>>
>>> Assuming he has patients, of course.
>>
>> Wanna try me on this?
> yep.

I'm a patient. You lose.
Pastor Kutchie, Earthquack's nemesis - 12 Apr 2007 14:19 GMT
> >> Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?
>
> > Assuming he has patients, of course.
>
> Wanna try me on this?

Go on...
Mu - 12 Apr 2007 05:58 GMT
> Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?

Isn't there a friend or family member that you're neglecting over your
compulsive and incessant history of posting to Usenet?

See how that works?
I KILLED YOUR GOD---IT WAS FUN! - 12 Apr 2007 06:31 GMT
>> Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?
>
> Isn't there a friend or family member that you're neglecting over your
> compulsive and incessant history of posting to Usenet?
>
> See how that works?

we dont work for them moron.
The Secretary of HomIntern - 12 Apr 2007 09:08 GMT
>>> Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?
>> Isn't there a friend or family member that you're neglecting over your
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> we dont work for them moron.

ESAD, as$clown
Mu - 13 Apr 2007 01:18 GMT
>>> Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> we dont work for them moron.

Oh me, another kid on Usenet. *plonk*
I KILLED YOUR GOD---IT WAS FUN! - 13 Apr 2007 01:39 GMT
>>>> Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Oh me, another kid on Usenet. *plonk*

yaaaayyyy.
another one bits the dust.
Art Deco - 13 Apr 2007 01:54 GMT
>>>>> Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>yaaaayyyy.
>another one bits the dust.

Mu is looking to plonk all of usenet except Andy Chung.

Signature

Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco

"Still suffering from reading comprehension problems, Deco?
The section is clearly attributed to Art Deco, not to you, Deco."
 -- Dr. David Tholen

"Who is "David Tholen", Daedalus?  Still suffering from
attribution problems?"
 -- Dr. David Tholen

I KILLED YOUR GOD---IT WAS FUN! - 13 Apr 2007 05:54 GMT
>>>>>> Isn't there a patient somewhere that you're neglecting over Usenet?
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Mu is looking to plonk all of usenet except Andy Chung.

well-they'd be a fine pair.
truth@salt-savour.com - 11 Apr 2007 14:53 GMT
"The lifelong immunosuppression starting from childhood is not wise.

Here the "cure" is potentially worse than the disease."

Please read posts before commenting, the source of the stem cells was
each individual being treated.  It is better to be silent then to not
be
current with research.
Pastor Kutchie, Earthquack's nemesis - 11 Apr 2007 19:54 GMT
On Apr 11, 2:53 pm, t...@salt-savour.com wrote:
> "The lifelong immunosuppression starting from childhood is not wise.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> be
> current with research.

That would mean total silence from Chung. He doesn't do current.
korax1214@gmail.com - 18 Apr 2007 12:19 GMT
On Apr 11, 7:54 pm, "Pastor Kutchie, Earthquack's nemesis"
<use...@heathens.org.uk> wrote:

> That would mean total silence from Chung.

Which of course ought to be encouraged. :-)
Cary Kittrell - 11 Apr 2007 18:32 GMT
> > I saw this on the 5pm news tonight but didn't catch all of it, so I looked
> > it up and thought I would share it with the group.
[quoted text clipped - 139 lines]
>
> The lifelong immunosuppression starting from childhood is not wise.

Then it's a good thing that this procedure does't rquire that.

> Here the "cure" is potentially worse than the disease.

That's why  it's "experimental".

-- cary
ray - 11 Apr 2007 15:53 GMT
> I saw this on the 5pm news tonight but didn't catch all of it, so I looked
> it up and thought I would share it with the group.
> Thankfully there seems to be some sort of a end in sight... hopefully if we
> can get stem cell studies allowed here in the
> US, LOL yeah right... 2008 can't come FAST enough for me... Enjoy reading..

Don't need additional stem cell studies for this approach. They harvest
your own stem cells and use them. It is a very invasive, very dangerous,
very uncomfortable procedure - much like what is used to treat multiple
myeloma.

Remember too, that the vast majority of diabetes patients are type 2.

> ---------------------
> Apr 10, 4:03 PM EDT
[quoted text clipped - 115 lines]
>
> http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DIABETES_EXPERIMENT?SITE=OKOKL&SECTION=HO
ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
rk - 11 Apr 2007 16:48 GMT
well too bad there isn't a cure on the horizon for Type 2's since
most times its caused from obesity.  thankfully there IS a cure
on the horizon for type 1's because it's an autoimmune disease.
I don't care HOW "uncomfortable" it is, it's far LESS then the
cost to keep me alive right now.

Signature

Reisa, T1
dx-5/00 asd-7/00
Animas IR1250 pumper
Symlin 1u, 30gm meals
Daily CHO: 150-175gm
TDD: 36-38u
Last A1C: coming down.

>
>> I saw this on the 5pm news tonight but didn't catch all of it, so I
[quoted text clipped - 161 lines]
>>
>> http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DIABETES_EXPERIMENT?SITE=OKOKL&SECTION=HO
ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
ray - 11 Apr 2007 17:56 GMT
> well too bad there isn't a cure on the horizon for Type 2's since
> most times its caused from obesity.  thankfully there IS a cure
> on the horizon for type 1's because it's an autoimmune disease.
> I don't care HOW "uncomfortable" it is, it's far LESS then the
> cost to keep me alive right now.

It is a very dangerous procedure. In the case of similar procedure for
multiple myeloma it is basically used as a last ditch life-saving attempt.
It is possible it could be refined to be useful, but I expect it will take
quite a while.
ray - 11 Apr 2007 19:14 GMT
> well too bad there isn't a cure on the horizon for Type 2's since
> most times its caused from obesity.  thankfully there IS a cure
> on the horizon for type 1's because it's an autoimmune disease.
> I don't care HOW "uncomfortable" it is, it's far LESS then the
> cost to keep me alive right now.

Let me apologize if I've seemed brusque on this issue. I certainly
understand your situation, and this type of procedure would seem to offer
some degree of hope down the road.

I have a very dear friend who is undergoing what appears to be very much
the same procedure as a treatment for multiple myeloma. Basically this is
a cancer of the bone marrow which used to be universally very deadly very
quickly. The procedure, as I understand it, involves several stages.
During the first stage they harvest the bodies own stem cells. The second
stage is to kill your entire immune system - this is done by killing all
the bone marrow and hence your body's ability to manufacture blood cells.
Then the harvested stem cells are reintroduced to start the immune system
and blood cell manufacturing back up. Very dangerous procedure, and lots
of things can go wrong at various stages - for instance an infection while
you immune system is down would be very bad. If the process succeeds and
you live (if the process fails, there is no going back - you're going to
die) then there are a number of additional issues - including
revaccination for all those childhood diseases because your immune system
is basically starting over. They harvest enough stem cells to be able to
try to restart two or three times, but that's it. I'm not, personally,
closely involved as the patient is not a relative, and there is a
possibilty I have missed some key points, but this is what I understand of
the multiple myeloma treatment - this sounds very similar - I saw the news
report too.
Nicky - 11 Apr 2007 21:30 GMT
>well too bad there isn't a cure on the horizon for Type 2's since
>most times its caused from obesity.

That is such crap, Reisa! Obesity is NOT a cause of diabetes; you're
not going to get diabetes however obese you are without having the
genetic propensity.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.5%  BMI 25
ray - 12 Apr 2007 01:23 GMT
>>well too bad there isn't a cure on the horizon for Type 2's since
>>most times its caused from obesity.
>
> That is such crap, Reisa! Obesity is NOT a cause of diabetes; you're
> not going to get diabetes however obese you are without having the
> genetic propensity.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. I have no family history of type 2 -
but was diagnosed in June 2005. I also was not obese, though a little
overweight - 5'10" 200 pounds. Additional points in my case: I had a
toboggan accident in 1964 - bruised my pancreas and formed a cyst which
neede to be drained. At that point the surgeon indicated that I should be
careful to look for diabetes in the future. I also served in the Vietnam
war and may have been exposed to agent orage - that is another known cause.

> Nicky.
> T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
> D&E, 100ug thyroxine
> Last A1c 5.5%  BMI 25
Kurt - 12 Apr 2007 01:43 GMT
> >well too bad there isn't a cure on the horizon for Type 2's since
> >most times its caused fromobesity.
>
> That is such crap, Reisa!Obesityis NOT a cause of diabetes; you're
> not going to get diabetes however obese you are without having the
> genetic propensity.

There are many many studies that show that both obesity and a
sedentary lifestyle are major contributing factors to the onset of T2
diabetes.

I find it interesting that you jumped on Reisa for her opinion but had
no problem with Susan's mean spirited attack on her.  No need to
explain, I know why that is.

Kurt
Quentin Grady - 11 Apr 2007 23:52 GMT
This post not CC'd by email

>Don't need additional stem cell studies for this approach. They harvest
>your own stem cells and use them. It is a very invasive, very dangerous,
>very uncomfortable procedure - much like what is used to treat multiple
>myeloma.

G'day G'day Ray,

  Not sure of the source of your information but IMHO you are way
behind the times.  In the past they harvested bone marrow. This was
very invasive, very dangerous (IIRC about 10% died) and very painful.

However that is not the only way to harvest stem cells these days.  I
had stem cells harvested in an attempt to slow the progression of
multiple myeloma.  The modern procedure uses a hormone to trick the
stem cells into coming out of the bone marrow into the blood. Then the
blood is harvested over a period of a couple of days.  It is all quite
pleasant and risk free. (There have been no deaths) The nurse who sits
with the centrifuge device that takes out a few hundred mls of blood
and a time spins out the stem cell rich fraction and returns the rest
of the blood gets to know one's life history or all one's best
recipes.  

Other parts of the treatment, involving melphalan (a derivative of
World War ! mustard gas) that kills all the bone marrow was painful.
On the countless occasions I've had blood samples taken or other
injections I think "This will pass" "This is nothing" because I have
that as a reminder.

Glad I never had to have a bone marrow transplant.  Some things we
simply have to be grateful for.  May I apologize in advance if the
particular situation you are referring to is one where the new method
of tricking the stem cells into coming out of the bone into the blood
cannot be used.  Both of us are doing our best to present what we
know.

Best wishes,
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Alan S - 12 Apr 2007 00:55 GMT
>This post not CC'd by email
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
>Best wishes,

So glad you're posting again Quentin; I was about to but
you're much closer to this of course. Wishing you the best.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Athens and The Adriatic
ray - 12 Apr 2007 01:20 GMT
> This post not CC'd by email
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> behind the times.  In the past they harvested bone marrow. This was
> very invasive, very dangerous (IIRC about 10% died) and very painful.

I think I'm somewhat up to date as I have a very close friend undergoing
myeloma treatment right now.

> However that is not the only way to harvest stem cells these days.  I
> had stem cells harvested in an attempt to slow the progression of
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> injections I think "This will pass" "This is nothing" because I have
> that as a reminder.

Exactly. I did not mean to indicate that the harvesting was uncomfortable,
but as you say, there are parts of the treatment that are indeed 'very
uncomfortable'.

> Glad I never had to have a bone marrow transplant.  Some things we
> simply have to be grateful for.  May I apologize in advance if the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Best wishes,

How did the myeloma treatment work out for you? My good friend has just
had his first infusion of stem cells a few days ago and seems to be
progressing.
BJ in Texas - 11 Apr 2007 18:40 GMT
|| I saw this on the 5pm news tonight but didn't catch all of
|| it, so I looked
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
|| US, LOL yeah right... 2008 can't come FAST enough for me...
|| Enjoy reading..

To the best of my knowledge stem cell research is perfectly
legal
in the US. The only issue is embrionic stem cell research and
that
is only to limit the harvesting of new lines. Existing lines
being used
currently for research are still legal.

The article that you cited did not involve embrionic stem cells.
It
was about harvesting a person's own stem cells and utilizing
them
which is legal.

Wish you would get your facts straight

BJ
Signature

--
"You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the
means he uses to frighten you." -- Eric Hoffer

Glory, glory the world is saved by the Democrats. They promise
to be just as honest and bipartisan as they were before the 1994
elections.

bj - 11 Apr 2007 19:09 GMT
> To the best of my knowledge stem cell research is perfectly legal in the
> US. The only issue is embrionic stem cell research and that is only to
> limit the harvesting of new lines. Existing lines being used currently for
> research are still legal.

And even then, it's a matter of *federal funding* being restricted, not the
research itself.
bj
BJ in Texas - 12 Apr 2007 13:38 GMT
||| To the best of my knowledge stem cell research is perfectly
||| legal in the US. The only issue is embrionic stem cell
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
|| restricted, not the research itself.
|| bj

Not true, there is no federal funding restrictions on
non-embryonic
stem cell research.

For political purposes the people wanting federal funding for
harvesting new embryonic stem cell lines would like you to think
that current restrictions are being applied to all stem cell
research.
It is not true.

Granted there is a debate over the federal funding of embryonic
stell cell research. The side you are on depends on your
situation,
political and religious beliefs. I my opinion both sides of the
issue
are not being honest.

http://stemcells.nih.gov/
hthttp://www.aaas.org/spp/cstc/briefs/stemcells/index.shtml#ban
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/08/20010809-2.html

BJ

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--
"I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers.
We are the president." -- Hillary Clinton

Glory, glory the world is saved by the Democrats. They promise
to be just as honest and bipartisan as they were before the 1994
elections.

BlueBrooke - 11 Apr 2007 19:15 GMT
> || I saw this on the 5pm news tonight but didn't catch all of
> || it, so I looked
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Wish you would get your facts straight

Old dog -- new tricks.
Signature

BlueBrooke
T2/D&E/June 2005
A1c Oct 2006 -- 5.8
A1c Jul 2005 -- 6.8
Telling me it is true does not make it so.

Susan - 11 Apr 2007 19:39 GMT
> Old dog -- new tricks.

She can't help it; her brain is a muscle.

She's said so adamantly, and I, for one, believe her.

Susan
Kurt - 11 Apr 2007 19:55 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Susan

Wow, how long have you cloistered that piece of dirt in your gut like
an oyster hoping it would turn into a mean spirited pearl?

Kurt
rk - 12 Apr 2007 05:17 GMT
oh well Kurt, just goes to show you now they've
had to ditch their multiple fake lying users they
have to attack me and probably you under their
own names.  and again, just goes to show you
how stupid they are.  they HATE being reminded
that T2 is brought on from obesity (which most
times is brought on from eating too much) and
being sedentary.

Signature

Reisa, T1
dx-5/00 asd-7/00
Animas IR1250 pumper
Symlin 1u, 30gm meals
Daily CHO: 150-175gm
TDD: 36-38u
Last A1C: coming down.

>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Kurt
Kurt - 12 Apr 2007 06:04 GMT
> >> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> > Kurt

>On Apr 11, 9:17pm, "rk" <p_haha_med...@gmail.com> wrote:
> oh well Kurt, just goes to show you now they've
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> times is brought on from eating too much) and
> being sedentary.

It's getting very strange in here...okay, make that "stranger" in here
than usual.  Pretty obvious that there are a number of sockpuppets
doing their best to push the popular agenda.  Not sure who is who
anymore, but I've learned how to spot one quickly because they are
none too clever.  Nowadays I guess we should be happy that some of the
"regulars" are at least insulting us with their main screen name. :)

As it has always been, if you belong to the vocal majority in this
newsgroup then you can insult with impunity.

Don't let the a-holes get you down.

Kurt
Alan S - 12 Apr 2007 07:03 GMT
>> >> x-no-archive: yes
>>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
>Kurt

Fascinating. I do agree with Nil Illegitimus Carborundum.

But,as Frankie Howerd said as Julius Caesar - "Infamy!
Infamy! They've all got it in for me!"

Best said by Dr Abbott (quietly, as they reached the foot of
the stairs) "There's enough material there for an entire
conference."
http://tinyurl.com/2lhzk6

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.

How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct.
   Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881), speech, January 24,
1860
Kurt - 12 Apr 2007 07:35 GMT
> On 11 Apr 2007 22:04:58 -0700, "Kurt"
>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> the stairs) "There's enough material there for an entire
> conference."

Mr. Doodlebug screamed into the stale coffee scented air (as he beat
his leathered meat hooks onto the steering wheel) "There are too many
damn sockpuppets around here." (from the movie "Snakes In A Cab")

Kurt
Alan S - 12 Apr 2007 08:48 GMT
>> On 11 Apr 2007 22:04:58 -0700, "Kurt"
>>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
>Kurt

I'm afraid I'd need some training to create sockpuppets; I
have enough difficulty just being me.

"asJuliusCaesar"? Someone else around here has that
characteristic of running words together...

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
Peter C - 12 Apr 2007 23:38 GMT
> On 11 Apr 2007 23:35:15 -0700, "Kurt"
>
> "asJuliusCaesar"? Someone else around here has that
> characteristic of running words together...

Did Frankie Howerd ever play Caesar ?
Surely he was always Lurcio in Up Pompeii ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_Pompeii
Peter C - 12 Apr 2007 23:49 GMT
>> On 11 Apr 2007 23:35:15 -0700, "Kurt"
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Surely he was always Lurcio in Up Pompeii ?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Up_Pompeii

It was Kenneth Williams in Carry on Cleo with the Infamy quote !
Alan S - 13 Apr 2007 03:16 GMT
>>> On 11 Apr 2007 23:35:15 -0700, "Kurt"
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>It was Kenneth Williams in Carry on Cleo with the Infamy quote !

Agreed.

I mis-remembered - but it was still a wonderful line:-)


Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Athens and The Adriatic
wingmask@yahoo.com - 13 Apr 2007 02:06 GMT
> oh well Kurt, just goes to show you now they've
> had to ditch their multiple fake lying users they
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi
rk - 12 Apr 2007 05:20 GMT
> || I saw this on the 5pm news tonight but didn't catch all of
> || it, so I looked
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> BJ

I have my facts straight.  Yeah harvesting stem cells in the US
is as legal as prescription pot.
percy - 12 Apr 2007 10:54 GMT
>>|| I saw this on the 5pm news tonight but didn't catch all of
>>|| it, so I looked
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> I have my facts straight.  Yeah harvesting stem cells in the US
> is as legal as prescription pot.

http://stemcells.nih.gov/policy

Not applicable for this diabetes treatment.

Maybe you'd have less back pain if you stopped shoving your foot in your
mouth.

Vicki
BJ in Texas - 12 Apr 2007 13:49 GMT
||| rk <p_haha_medium@gmail.com> wrote:
||||| I saw this on the 5pm news tonight but didn't catch all of
||||| it, so I looked
||||| it up and thought I would share it with the group.
||||| Thankfully there seems to be some sort of a end in
sight...
||||| hopefully if we
||||| can get stem cell studies allowed here in the
||||| US, LOL yeah right... 2008 can't come FAST enough for
me...
||||| Enjoy reading..
|||
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
|| US
|| is as legal as prescription pot.

Not likely, granted harvesting new lines of  embryonic stem
cells is not legal. However harvesting stem cells from other
sources is quite legal. This includes harvesting from a number
of sources such as umbilical cords and human placenta, and
adult stem cells.

As I said before, Get your facts straight.

BJ

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