Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / January 2007
The mechanism of action of capsaicin on Diabetes they'll never figure out
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awthrawthr@yahoo.com - 17 Dec 2006 06:34 GMT By now you've probably heard the good news about Capsaicin reversing Type I and II diabetes in mice. Capsaicin is the heat compound in hot peppers.
The theory, a good one, is that the capsaicin heals some pancreatic nerve cells. But what exactly is the capsaicin doing to heal the nerve cells?
Answer: It's doing the same thing large doses of protein enzymes do to reverse Type I and II diabetes. They digest fibrin! Fibrin is an inflammatory protein that can muck up cells and cause scarring of tissue. It causes blood cells to stick together resulting in clumping. It's seen in arthritic joints, too. It's seen in the process of Alzheimer's disease. Fibrin is also seen when there is a cut or surgical procedure. (To speed up healing from surgery, take bromelain for two weeks prior to two weeks after surgery.)
Well, duh, guess what hot peppers can do. They make your nose run, don't they? It's specialty is in dissolving mucus. Fibrin is a type of mucus.
Do you suppose the 'scientists' will ever figure this one out? Some will, after spending $$. But you've heard it here first.
Arnold Ehret was at least partially right. Get rid of the mucus and your health will improve.
GysdeJongh - 17 Dec 2006 09:59 GMT > By now you've probably heard the good news about Capsaicin reversing > Type I and II diabetes in mice. Capsaicin is the heat compound in hot [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > nerve cells. But what exactly is the capsaicin doing to heal the nerve > cells? Hi awthrawthr , the answer is in the actual article and it is for free to download at Cell.
Capsaicine is a ligand for a non-specific cation channel in the membrane of nerve cells : TRPV1 . If activated this receptor causes the nerve cell to produce neuro peptides.The signal neuro peptides activate survailing T-cells which will become activated and attack the pancreatic beta cells.This attack , because it comes from your own T-cells is diagnosed "autoimmuun"
Or in plain english :
Like every where else in your body there are nerves in your pancreas. The nerves watch out for you , it's what they do for a living
So they are irritable little guys and the have a wealth of ways by which they let you irritate them :( Pepper is a plant that , in order to survive , develloped one way in the course of the evolution If you eat it once you would never eat it again so the plant survives Yeb , for all other things but not for humans , they even like the taste !!
After the nerve is angry enough he calls his big brothers for help : the T-cells. T-cells are a bunch of street guys with lots of muscle just hanging out in the mall waiting for trouble to happen and teasing their little nerve brother is just the right way to do it
So they start hitting every thing with their baseball bats : guys from the other gang , the police , themselves and ofcourse innocent bystanders : the pancreatic beta cells
hth Gys
awthrawthr@yahoo.com - 17 Dec 2006 13:09 GMT > > By now you've probably heard the good news about Capsaicin reversing > > Type I and II diabetes in mice. Capsaicin is the heat compound in hot [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > hth > Gys Sounds good. The question is why did the beta cells become inactive in the first place. Something has prevented them from working properly. Just as the protein enzymes digest fibrin allowing the reversal of Types I and II (Google "William Wong, N.D." +diabetes), hot peppers do the same thing.
GysdeJongh - 17 Dec 2006 16:25 GMT >> > By now you've probably heard the good news about Capsaicin reversing >> > Type I and II diabetes in mice. Capsaicin is the heat compound in hot [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > Types I and II (Google "William Wong, N.D." +diabetes), hot peppers do > the same thing. Hi awthrawthr , uhhhh ... the inactivation of the beta cells is not the first event. They became inactive because they were destroyed by suvailing T-cells see what I read in the original article explained above.....
hth a little bit Gys
awthrawthr@yahoo.com - 18 Dec 2006 04:13 GMT > >> > By now you've probably heard the good news about Capsaicin reversing > >> > Type I and II diabetes in mice. Capsaicin is the heat compound in hot [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > hth a little bit > Gys The problem is that in looking at the small picture the big picture is missed. The damage is caused by mucus. There's little money in drug manufacturing for drugs that clear out mucus. Clear out the mucus and the body has an incredible ability to heal itself quickly.
If you want a good example, recall a time when your throat was scratchy and bothering you. If you clear out the mucus, it feels better almost instantly. Furthermore, until the mucus is cleared out, nothing really does the job.
Things like protein enzymes, hot peppers, horseradish, garlic, ginger, eucalyptus etc, have varying degrees of ability to unstick mucus. Protein enzymes can also remove scar tissue caused by sticky fibrin. Perhaps the others can do the same thing.
Jeff - 18 Dec 2006 04:42 GMT <...>
> The problem is that in looking at the small picture the big picture is > missed. The damage is caused by mucus. This conjecture is totally ridiculus. There is no mucus in the islets. There is mucus in the exocrine part of the pancreas. But the exocrine part of the pancreas (which makes the enzymes which break down food in the intestines) is not involved in the cause of diabetes. The endocrine pancreas (which makes insulin and glucagon) does not make mucus.
> There's little money in drug > manufacturing for drugs that clear out mucus. Clear out the mucus and > the body has an incredible ability to heal itself quickly. While it is important to clear out mucus, as we see in cystic fibrosis, mucus has nothing to do with causing diabetes.
> If you want a good example, recall a time when your throat was scratchy > and bothering you. If you clear out the mucus, it feels better almost > instantly. Furthermore, until the mucus is cleared out, nothing really > does the job. How about another example? Sometimes, if I sit on the floor, the circulation gets cut off. When I stand up, it takes abotu 2 minutes for the ciruculation to return. Until then, my leg won't feel better. What does this have to do with diabetes? Same thing mucus does: NOTHING.
> Things like protein enzymes, hot peppers, horseradish, garlic, ginger, > eucalyptus etc, have varying degrees of ability to unstick mucus. > Protein enzymes can also remove scar tissue caused by sticky fibrin. > Perhaps the others can do the same thing. But none of this causes diabetes. If I am incorrect, please provide reliable references.
have a delightful day.
Jeff
Ma¢k - 20 Dec 2006 02:57 GMT [Default] On 17 Dec 2006 20:13:36 -0800, awthrawthr@yahoo.com Giggled into the madness of usenet:
>The problem is that in looking at the small picture the big picture is >missed. The damage is caused by mucus. There's little money in drug >manufacturing for drugs that clear out mucus. Clear out the mucus and >the body has an incredible ability to heal itself quickly. show me real proof that there are any mucus producing cells in the pancreas.
lying about diabetes only earns you troll and kook status.
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% - 20 Dec 2006 03:07 GMT GrandpaChuck - 20 Dec 2006 04:23 GMT >[Default] On 17 Dec 2006 20:13:36 -0800, awthrawthr@yahoo.com Giggled >into the madness of usenet: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >lying about diabetes only earns you troll and kook status. Amen brother. We have far too many quacks and charlatans come into ASD pushing their private agendas already without more people muddying the water.
 Signature Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ Americans killed in Iraq as of December 18, 2006 is 2950. United Kingdom = 126 Other = 121. Non-Mortal American casualties 46,880 as of December 02, 2006. Over 100 Iraqi civilians are killed every day. Most by so-called insurgents. As of December 19, 2006 it has been 1326 days since Bush declared, "Mission Accomplished." "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis
Ma¢k - 20 Dec 2006 02:54 GMT [Default] On 17 Dec 2006 05:09:17 -0800, awthrawthr@yahoo.com Giggled into the madness of usenet:
>> > By now you've probably heard the good news about Capsaicin reversing >> > Type I and II diabetes in mice. Capsaicin is the heat compound in hot [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >Types I and II (Google "William Wong, N.D." +diabetes), hot peppers do >the same thing. eating hot peppers in raw or pill form does not do this. lying about curing type 1 and 2 will only get you kill filed by some and mocked by the rest.
now go back to scamming at your health scam store little clerk.
% - 20 Dec 2006 03:07 GMT hi
Robert Miles - 20 Dec 2006 19:22 GMT Jeff - 17 Dec 2006 13:06 GMT > By now you've probably heard the good news about Capsaicin reversing > Type I and II diabetes in mice. Substance P reversed type I and type II diabetes in mice for a period of time. Capsaicin delayed it and prevented it in 80% of mice in a partilar mouse model when injected at 2 days of age. That is different from reversing it.
> Capsaicin is the heat compound in hot > peppers. > > The theory, a good one, is that the capsaicin heals some pancreatic > nerve cells. But what exactly is the capsaicin doing to heal the nerve > cells? What makes this a good theory? Do you have emperical evidence to back it up? For example, did the investigators in the Cell paper referenced above do any work that would back or refute your conjecture?
In fact, what the investigators found is that there were reaction by the immune system to type-1 associated antigens. Nothing about healing nerve cells.
Your theory is a poor theory.
> Answer: It's doing the same thing large doses of protein enzymes do to > reverse Type I and II diabetes. They digest fibrin! Fibrin is an [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > don't they? It's specialty is in dissolving mucus. Fibrin is a type of > mucus. Get clue man. Fibrin is a protein. Mucus is what is secreted by cells lining the respiratory and digestive tracts. I doubt there is any firbin secreted by mucus cells. And certainly, there is very little fibrin in mucus.
> Do you suppose the 'scientists' will ever figure this one out? Some > will, after spending $$. But you've heard it here first. Scientists will never come to the conlcusions that you have because scientists base their conclusions on evidence, not conjecture. And you don't even get the facts right.
> Arnold Ehret was at least partially right. Get rid of the mucus and > your health will improve. Mucus is necessary for health. People who don't secrete much mucus, people with cystic fibrosis, have horrible problems because of this.
I am not going to respond to you in this thread unless you are able to make sense.
Jeff
Ozgirl - 17 Dec 2006 19:55 GMT > <awthrawthr@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1166337289.970936.228120@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>> By now you've probably heard the good news about Capsaicin reversing >> Type I and II diabetes in mice. > > Substance P reversed type I and type II diabetes in mice for a period > of time. Capsaicin delayed it and prevented it in 80% of mice in a
> partilar mouse model when injected at 2 days of age. That is
> different from reversing it. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > What makes this a good theory? Do you have emperical evidence to back > it up? For example, did the investigators in the Cell paper
> referenced above do any work that would back or refute your
> conjecture? > > In fact, what the investigators found is that there were reaction by > the immune system to type-1 associated antigens. Nothing about
> healing nerve cells. > > Your theory is a poor theory. > >> Answer: It's doing the same thing large doses of protein enzymes do >> to reverse Type I and II diabetes. They digest fibrin! Fibrin is an
>> inflammatory protein that can muck up cells and cause scarring of >> tissue. It causes blood cells to stick together resulting in >> clumping. It's seen in arthritic joints, too. It's seen in the
>> process of Alzheimer's disease. Fibrin is also seen when there is a
>> cut or surgical procedure. (To speed up healing from surgery, take
>> bromelain for two weeks prior to two weeks after surgery.)
>> Well, duh, guess what hot peppers can do. They make your nose run, >> don't they? It's specialty is in dissolving mucus. Fibrin is a type >> of mucus. > > Get clue man. Fibrin is a protein. Mucus is what is secreted by cells > lining the respiratory and digestive tracts. I doubt there is any
> firbin secreted by mucus cells. And certainly, there is very little
> fibrin in mucus. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Mucus is necessary for health. People who don't secrete much mucus, > people with cystic fibrosis, have horrible problems because of this.
> I am not going to respond to you in this thread unless you are able > to make sense. > > Jeff He works in a health food store. He sees big dollars coming out of this for his store and perhaps his next cheap and nasty self-published "book".
D. C. Sessions - 17 Dec 2006 20:07 GMT > The theory, a good one, is that the capsaicin heals some pancreatic > nerve cells. But what exactly is the capsaicin doing to heal the nerve > cells? If you read the article carefully, the capsaicin is used to *kill* the nerve cells. As the article relates, this is an "old trick" -- capsaicin is routinely used to kill nerve cells in research.
| Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable | | e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel. | | There isn't really a Santa Claus, but try www.santaclaus.com. | +--------------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> --------------+
Jeff - 17 Dec 2006 20:58 GMT >> The theory, a good one, is that the capsaicin heals some pancreatic >> nerve cells. But what exactly is the capsaicin doing to heal the nerve [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "old trick" -- capsaicin is routinely used to kill nerve > cells in research. I think one of the things that the authors got wrong is that they didn't identify nerve cells in the pancreas. They identified nerve fibers, which are part of nerve cells. The cell bodies are ganglia, perhaps the dorsal root ganglia. The difference between fibers and ganglia in the body is important.
Jeff
> | Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable | > | e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber cartel. | > | There isn't really a Santa Claus, but try www.santaclaus.com. | > +--------------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com> --------------+ GysdeJongh - 17 Dec 2006 22:09 GMT <snipped some speculative theory>
>> If you read the article carefully, the capsaicin is used to >> *kill* the nerve cells. As the article relates, this is an [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > root ganglia. The difference between fibers and ganglia in the body is > important. Hi Jeff, why do you think that the difference between the gangglia and the body is important ?
My impression is that their main hypothesis is that TRPV1+ is the cause of the problem and they show an immuun fluorescence picture of pancreas preparations which is positive (green) for TRPV1 in the controls that were not treated with capsaicin.They also show a western blot of TRPV1 (protein ) of spinal cord extracts which is positive for the control.So which part of the neuron is secreting a peptide because of activation by TRPV1 does not seem very important to me.
If I look up TRPV1 with "TRPV1 AND sapiens" in Gene at the NCBI :
Summary Capsaicin, the main pungent ingredient in hot chili peppers, elicits a sensation of burning pain by selectively activating sensory neurons that convey information about noxious stimuli to the central nervous system. The protein encoded by this gene is a receptor for capsaicin and is a non-selective cation channel that is structurally related to members of the TRP family of ion channels. This receptor is also activated by increases in temperature in the noxious range, suggesting that it functions as a transducer of painful thermal stimuli in vivo. Four transcript variants encoding the same protein, but with different 5' UTR sequence, have been described for this gene.
For me , T2 1000 mg Metformin/day ,100 mg Tramadol /day ,300 mg Lyrica / day , diet and exercise with lots of neuropatic pain this literature is encouraging :
1) TRPV1 antagonists, including TRPV1 siRNAs, have potential in the treatment of both, neuropathic and visceral pain . 2) PAR2 activates PKCepsilon and PKA in sensory neurons, and thereby sensitizes TRPV1 to cause thermal hyperalgesia 3)Opioid receptor agonist morphine acts via inhibition of adenylate cyclase to inhibit protein kinase A-potentiated TRPV1 responses 4)Review notes that high expression of TRPV1 has been detected in inflammatory diseases of the colon and ileum, whereas neuropeptides released upon sensory nerve stimulation triggered by TRPV1 activation may play a role in intestinal motility disorders.5)VR1 is widely distributed in the skin, suggesting a major role for this receptor, e.g. in nociception and neurogenic inflammation
My 2 cents Gys
Jeff - 17 Dec 2006 22:43 GMT > <snipped some speculative theory> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > why do you think that the difference between the gangglia and the body is > important ? Because, if the nerve cells body is still there, it might regrow nerve fibers that innervate the pancreas. This doesn't mean that if this happens, it will cause diabetes again.
In addition, they didn't really show that the nerve cell fibers were killed. Rather, that there were no more TRPV1 protein in the pancreas. In theory, the nerve fibers might still be there, but not functioning, implying that they could later start functioning again.
There are articles in the scientific literature that show that most of the nerve cells like the ones that give rise to the TRPV1+ fibers are killed by capsaicin.
I suspect that they got the biology right, but the terminology is different than I would have used.
> My impression is that their main hypothesis is that TRPV1+ is the cause > of the problem and they show an immuun fluorescence picture of pancreas [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > which part of the neuron is secreting a peptide because of activation by > TRPV1 does not seem very important to me. Close. The hypothesis is that the immune system was modulated by TRPV1+ neurons. The TRPV1 is just a receptor. However, the nerve fibers with TRPV1 also secrete the peptides substance P and CGRP. It is these peptides and related substance secreted by the nerve fibers that is causing problems.
> If I look up TRPV1 with "TRPV1 AND sapiens" in Gene at the NCBI : > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > widely distributed in the skin, suggesting a major role for this receptor, > e.g. in nociception and neurogenic inflammation It definitely is encouraging, not only for diabetics, but for other immune-related disease, like asthma.
Jeff
> My 2 cents > Gys GysdeJongh - 18 Dec 2006 12:29 GMT >> <snipped some >
>>> I think one of the things that the authors got wrong is that they didn't >>> identify nerve cells in the pancreas. They identified nerve fibers, [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > peptides and related substance secreted by the nerve fibers that is > causing problems. Hi Jeff , thank you very much for your clear explanation , very good as always :)
Ok I'm following you now
So Nerve cell fibers near a beta cell in your pancreas have a receptor called TRPV1 . If the receptor is activated by something , heat or capsaicin , the nerve cell secretes neuropeptide(s) like substance P and CGRP . Substance P actually stops the clonal expansion of pancreatic T-cells . Which seems a good thing (?) . Why does it help to remove the nerve cells then ??? If substance P was injected , or the T-cells themselves were first treated with substance P and than injected , the diabetic mice returned to normal bloodglucose levels ???
Except for the fact that capsaicin is a ligand for the TRPV1 receptor it also actually kills the nerve cell itself . So capsaicin can be used , in a mouse model , to clear the pancreas of all TRPV1 positive nerve cells . In this model the mice were "no longer diabetic" ( to make a shortcut ) for 2 - 8 weeks.
So This does not make sense to me anymore ?? You are right I'm missing the picture :(
So Ok it is still important to know if the effect was caused by 1) The nerve cell , or 2) the TRPV1 receptor because both were nolonger present .
I was also looking in Geo profiles but I found no other tissue that expresses the TRPV1
thx Gys
Jeff - 18 Dec 2006 16:56 GMT >>> <snipped some > > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > Substance P actually stops the clonal expansion of pancreatic T-cells . > Which seems a good thing (?) . Yes, it's a good thing. The T-cells invite other cells into the area that do the immune system's dirty work, which results in the desctruction of the islet cells by the immune system cells. (I don't think it is a clonal expansion of T-cells, whether it was clonal or not was not investigated.)
> Why does it help to remove the nerve cells then ??? If substance P was > injected , or the T-cells themselves were first treated with substance P > and than injected , the diabetic mice returned to normal bloodglucose > levels ??? There is an interaction between TRPV1+ neurons and the immune system. When this interaction is out of balance, the immune system attacks the beta-cells. By injecting substance P, you restore the balance.
> Except for the fact that capsaicin is a ligand for the TRPV1 receptor it > also actually kills the nerve cell itself . So capsaicin can be used , in > a mouse model , to clear the pancreas of all TRPV1 positive nerve cells . > In this model the mice were "no longer diabetic" ( to make a shortcut ) > for 2 - 8 weeks. This is a really confusing part of the article. The substance P was used in adults, not pups.
The capsaicin was used in mice pups at 2 days of age. That destroyed the nerve cells so the interaction never happened in the first place.
So the substance P restored the interaction between nerve cells and the immune system to be more normal in adult mice.
The capsacicin prevented the interaction from getting out of hand in the first place by destroying most of the nerve cells (or nerve fibers) in mouse pups.
The paper is actually rather complicated with a series of experiments. There are a lot of details just buried in their. And there are things obvious to immunologists that I totally miss. So it is a tough read
Jeff
> So > This does not make sense to me anymore ?? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > thx > Gys Ma¢k - 20 Dec 2006 02:51 GMT [Default] On 16 Dec 2006 22:34:50 -0800, awthrawthr@yahoo.com Giggled into the madness of usenet:
>By now you've probably heard the good news about Capsaicin reversing >Type I and II diabetes in mice. Capsaicin is the heat compound in hot >peppers. why should anyone believe what a health/supplement scammer store clerk has to say?
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% - 20 Dec 2006 03:06 GMT desert dweller - 21 Dec 2006 16:10 GMT > [Default] On 16 Dec 2006 22:34:50 -0800, awthrawthr@yahoo.com Giggled > into the madness of usenet: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > why should anyone believe what a health/supplement scammer store > clerk has to say? Don't know about charlatans, but this "diabetes breakthrough" new is all over the net, and published in the Cell magazine.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf
"Diabetic mice became healthy virtually overnight after researchers injected a substance to counteract the effect of malfunctioning pain neurons in the pancreas."
Ma¢k - 27 Dec 2006 02:39 GMT [Default] On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 09:10:17 -0700, desert dweller <private@privateemail.org> Giggled into the madness of usenet:
>> [Default] On 16 Dec 2006 22:34:50 -0800, awthrawthr@yahoo.com Giggled >> into the madness of usenet: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >injected a substance to counteract the effect of malfunctioning pain >neurons in the pancreas." and from that article the store clerk I was referring to claims that eating peppers will do the same.
 Signature Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt
(o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins
DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
desert dweller - 31 Dec 2006 00:33 GMT >> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and from that article the store clerk I was referring to claims that > eating peppers will do the same. Oh. Well of course that is clearly wrong. How funny. I do like eating peppers though.
Wes Groleau - 31 Dec 2006 01:32 GMT > Oh. Well of course that is clearly wrong. How funny. I do like eating > peppers though. Eating peppers will not have the effect of that high dose injection in the study. However, many people have reported that eating them seems to have some beneficial effect on BG.
 Signature Wes Groleau
"A miracle is a violation of the laws of nature, and as a firm and unalterable experience has established these laws, the proof against a miracle, from the very nature of the fact, is as entire as could possibly be imagined." -- David Hume, age 37
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Ma¢k - 01 Jan 2007 16:59 GMT [Default] On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 01:32:34 GMT, Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> Giggled into the madness of usenet:
>> Oh. Well of course that is clearly wrong. How funny. I do like eating >> peppers though. > >Eating peppers will not have the effect of that high dose injection in >the study. However, many people have reported that eating them seems to >have some beneficial effect on BG. duh, you tend to eat smaller meals.
 Signature Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt
(o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins
DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
Ma¢k - 01 Jan 2007 16:58 GMT [Default] On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:33:25 -0700, desert dweller <private@privateemail.org> Giggled into the madness of usenet:
>>> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Oh. Well of course that is clearly wrong. How funny. I do like eating >peppers though. so do I. I just gave a lot of them away. I had several pepper plants in my mother's back yard. Got some really good home made hot vinegar too.
 Signature Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt
(o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins
DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
Twittering One - 20 Dec 2006 02:56 GMT "Capsicum, where ~ ?" ~ Twittering
coonskin@amestwp.com - 21 Dec 2006 17:02 GMT No, capsaicin did not heal, it destroyed nerves local to beta cells thought to produce the wrong signals to the cell. By removing the source of the wrong signal the cells could become healthy again. To get the same amount of capsaicin that was directly injected into the pancreous, one would have to consume enough orally to cause serious damage to nerves in all parts of the body.
"By now you've probably heard the good news about Capsaicin reversing Type I and II diabetes in mice. Capsaicin is the heat compound in hot peppers.
The theory, a good one, is that the capsaicin heals some pancreatic nerve cells. But what exactly is the capsaicin doing to heal the nerve cells?
Answer: It's doing the same thing large doses of protein enzymes do to reverse Type I and II diabetes. They digest fibrin! Fibrin is an inflammatory protein that can muck up cells and cause scarring of tissue. It causes blood cells to stick together resulting in clumping. It's seen in arthritic joints, too. It's seen in the process of Alzheimer's disease. Fibrin is also seen when there is a cut or surgical procedure. (To speed up healing from surgery, take bromelain for two weeks prior to two weeks after surgery.)"
Jeff - 28 Dec 2006 22:57 GMT > No, capsaicin did not heal, it destroyed nerves local to beta cells > thought to produce the wrong signals to the cell. By removing the > source of the wrong signal the cells could become healthy again. To get > the same amount of capsaicin that was directly injected into the > pancreous, one would have to consume enough orally to cause serious > damage to nerves in all parts of the body. The capsaicin was not directly injected into the pancreas. It was inject s.c. (subcutaneously). It affected pain fibers all over the body. Which is one reason why it is not a good way to prevent diabetes.
> "By now you've probably heard the good news about Capsaicin reversing > Type I and II diabetes in mice. Capsaicin is the heat compound in hot [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > procedure. (To speed up healing from surgery, take bromelain for two > weeks prior to two weeks after surgery.)" Fibrin has nothing to do with diabetes. This was conjecture, at best.
coonskin@amestwp.com - 29 Dec 2006 13:58 GMT > the same amount of capsaicin that was directly injected into the > pancreous, one would have to consume enough orally to cause serious > damage to nerves in all parts of the body. "The capsaicin was not directly injected into the pancreas. It was inject s.c. (subcutaneously). It affected pain fibers all over the body. Which is one reason why it is not a good way to prevent diabetes."
I read the full article, it was injected into the pancreous.
just Ed - 30 Dec 2006 04:16 GMT > > the same amount of capsaicin that was directly injected into the > > pancreous, one would have to consume enough orally to cause serious [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I read the full article, it was injected into the pancreous. read it again. The neuropeptide 'substance P' was injected into each pancreas to produce the long lasting results. capsaicin results were produced "Almost immediately" but there was no comment about the result lasting or where that was injected.
awthraw is just making up nonsense again. his capsaicin and blood type posts are all product of some hallucinogenic flashback.
I think I have the abstract which doesn't even mention capsaicin: Cell. 2006 Dec 15;127(6):1123-35.Click here to read Links TRPV1+ sensory neurons control beta cell stress and islet inflammation in autoimmune diabetes.
* Razavi R, * Chan Y, * Afifiyan FN, * Liu XJ, * Wan X, * Yantha J, * Tsui H, * Tang L, * Tsai S, * Santamaria P, * Driver JP, * Serreze D, * Salter MW, * Dosch HM.
Neurosciences and Mental Health Program, The Hospital for Sick Children, Research Institute, University of Toronto, Toronto, ON, Canada, M5G 1X8.
In type 1 diabetes, T cell-mediated death of pancreatic beta cells produces insulin deficiency. However, what attracts or restricts broadly autoreactive lymphocyte pools to the pancreas remains unclear. We report that TRPV1(+) pancreatic sensory neurons control islet inflammation and insulin resistance. Eliminating these neurons in diabetes-prone NOD mice prevents insulitis and diabetes, despite systemic persistence of pathogenic T cell pools. Insulin resistance and beta cell stress of prediabetic NOD mice are prevented when TRPV1(+) neurons are eliminated. TRPV1(NOD), localized to the Idd4.1 diabetes-risk locus, is a hypofunctional mutant, mediating depressed neurogenic inflammation. Delivering the neuropeptide substance P by intra-arterial injection into the NOD pancreas reverses abnormal insulin resistance, insulitis, and diabetes for weeks. Concordantly, insulin sensitivity is enhanced in trpv1(-/-) mice, whereas insulitis/diabetes-resistant NODxB6Idd4-congenic mice, carrying wild-type TRPV1, show restored TRPV1 function and insulin sensitivity. Our data uncover a fundamental role for insulin-responsive TRPV1(+) sensory neurons in beta cell function and diabetes pathoetiology.
PMID: 17174891 [PubMed - in process]
D. C. Sessions - 05 Jan 2007 14:52 GMT > Answer: It's doing the same thing large doses of protein enzymes do to > reverse Type I and II diabetes. They digest fibrin! Fibrin is an [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > surgical procedure. (To speed up healing from surgery, take bromelain > for two weeks prior to two weeks after surgery.) Strangely, though, this property of capsaicin to lyse fibrin has never been observed /in/ /vitro./ What's more, pancreatic scarring (or other excess fibrin) has never been observed in diabetics.
Other than that, it's a great idea. Let us know when you figure out an experimental protocol to test it.
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