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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / December 2006ONE CURE for BOTH type 1 and type 2 diabetes???
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970  SignatureJoin us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. a little bit of hope always feels good. when it slowly dies down, I still felt the hope and yet some how never felt the let down point. wow if this works, I wonder how long it will take for us to be able to get it. with diabetes getting out of hand like it is. I hope they hurry. Will I once again be able to complete my order with. "and for desert il have cheese cake" for those that will jump in with.. its no excuse to go crazy. shhhhhh let me dream. Tom if it is found to be a cure. how many of us will get to use it? > http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 Nothing wrong with hope. I don't really look for it in my lifetime, but you're still fairly young, so hopefully in yours. :-) -- Cheri Gantlet wrote in message ... >a little bit of hope always feels good. when it slowly dies down, I still >felt the hope [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Tom >if it is found to be a cure. how many of us will get to use it? > http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 "The islet inflammation cleared up and the diabetes was gone. ...The researchers are now setting out to confirm that the connection between sensory nerves and diabetes holds true in humans. If it does, they will see if their treatments have the same effects on people as they did on mice." Wow! If it pans out, I'll stop wearing Ts with lizards on them in honour of Byetta, and move to chillis... Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.5/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 100ug Thyroxine 95/72/72Kg > http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 >From Canada came the discovery of insulin, let's hope they've discovered another miracle. And that it can be implemented quickly for everyone! No offense, but I live for the day when we stop talking to each other and this place is a ghost town because we've all been cured. I hope we all are able to see this place change its name to a.s. Kurt Well, then we can all gravitate to other newsgroups and still annoy each other right? LOL Hope you have a great weekend Kurt. :-) -- Cheri Kurt wrote in message <1166226376.292421.66350@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>... >No offense, but I live for the day when we stop talking to each other >and this place is a ghost town because we've all been cured. I hope we >all are able to see this place change its name to a.s. > >Kurt >> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 > >>From Canada came the discovery of insulin, let's hope they've > discovered another miracle. And that it can be implemented quickly for > everyone! From Canda and the US: Davud Serreze, from the Jackson Labs in Bar Harbor Maine, was one of the coauthors. The coauthors were Rozita Razavi, Yin Chan, F. Nikoo Afifiyan, Xue Jun Liu, Xiang Wan, Jason Tantha, Hubert Tsui, Lan Tang, Sue Tsai, Pere Santamaria, John P. Driver, David Serreze, Michael W. Salter, and H-Michael Dosch. I am not sure why, but I think a lot of the authors are not natives of Canada, too. Jeff "Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message > No offense, but I live for the day when we stop talking to each other > and this place is a ghost town because we've all been cured. I hope we > all are able to see this place change its name to a.s. > > Kurt lol.. i couldnt help but notice you didnt say that you would be glad not to be diabetic any more. Well so far the worst part about being diabetic for me has been this place. So I can understand that. o man wouldnt it be great to say good bye to this group. I guess not being diabetic anymore is ok to. Wow I cant wait to say good riddens. Damn i just started my web site to :(. its looking good, I just checked and it seems that Alt.support.diabetic.mice has already closed down :). Dr. Bernie the Rat will have to find something else to spam in every newsgroup and message board. Being Cured Diabetic - will be fantastic Being Able to eat a slice of cheese cake - Unbelievable. Making my last post here - Priceless. Tom anyone want to buy a web site? > "Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > No offense, but I live for the day when we stop talking to each other [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > i couldnt help but notice you didnt say that you would be glad not to be > diabetic any more. Oh yeah, that too! Although I'd have to give away my neat gold medic-alert wristband. > Well so far the worst part about being diabetic for me has been this place. LOL > So I can understand that. o man wouldnt it be great to say good bye to this > group. > I guess not being diabetic anymore is ok to. > Wow I cant wait to say good riddens. > Damn i just started my web site to :(. Oh yeah, that's right. Well, you could make it about motorcycles. > its looking good, I just checked and it seems that > Alt.support.diabetic.mice has already closed down :). Dr. Bernie the Rat > will have to find something else to spam in every newsgroup and message > board. LOL. By Dr. Rodentstein's book "Cheddar for Dummies" > Being Cured Diabetic - will be fantastic > Being Able to eat a slice of cheese cake - Unbelievable. > Making my last post here - Priceless. I think it wold be priceless for ALL of us. > Tom > anyone want to buy a web site? LOL. Funny post, Tom. Best, Kurt "Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message > LOL. By Dr. Rodentstein's book "Cheddar for Dummies" > Best, > Kurt funny lol > http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 They don't say exactly where the researchers are other than "Toronto", but that was where Banting and Best first figured out how to extract and purify insulin and did animal and human trials to show that it works. If this pans out it will not only be wonderful for all of us (remember those TV ads for research funding from the 80's of all the diabetics gleefully throwing out syringes and insulin and Testape?) but particularly glorious for Toronto. Tim. >> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 > They don't say exactly where the researchers are other than "Toronto", > but that was where Banting and Best first figured out how to extract > and purify insulin and did animal and human trials to show that it > works. They give more than enough clues for Google, which immediately found the research press release which was the source of this article. http://www.sickkids.ca/mediaroom/custom/diabetesopen06.asp > If this pans out it will not only be wonderful for all of us (remember > those TV ads for research funding from the 80's of all the diabetics > gleefully throwing out syringes and insulin and Testape?) but > particularly glorious for Toronto. I'd like to place my bet now on this panning out :-) It may not be exactly the same as in humans. It's not unlikely that we are different enough from mice that some of the treatment delivery route might be affected, but my bet is that this involves a sufficiently ancient and basic part of mammalian BG control that it ought to be possible to develop a treamtment applicable to humans from this, even if the specific method used on the mice doesn't work on us. Anyone else like to place a bet? SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] > >> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Anyone else like to place a bet? http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ea1de696e46d7a37? May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our diabetes, depression, anxiety, or panic so that we can love our neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear friend Chris whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love In alt.support.diabetes Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <love3@thetruth.com> wrote: >> >> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> >> Anyone else like to place a bet? > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ea1de696e46d7a37? Interesting counter points, Andrew, thanks. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] > Andrew wrote: > >> >> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Interesting counter points, Andrew, thanks. You are welcome. All thanks and praises belong to GOD, Creator of heaven and earth, Source of all knowledge and wisdom, and Healer of all diseases and infirmities: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Healer.asp May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our diabetes, depression, anxiety, or panic so that we can love our neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear friend Chris whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love3@thetruth.com> wrote in message > All thanks and praises belong to medical science, which has to resist > charlatans and superstition. >Science, not superstition is the source of all knowledge and wisdom, and >"god" heals nothing and only encourages >ignorance and weakness. <snip stool> > In alt.support.diabetes Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <love3@thetruth.com> wrote: > >> >> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK > [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] Here's the great news. While you scientists kvetch about whther it's applicable or not, real, living, breathing diabetics are going to try it for themselves. Like my neighbor for instance. And if it works, they are going to tell their fellow diabetics, kidney dialysis patients etc. As the public's eyes open to this natural cure (or improvement), then their eyes will gradually open to other natural cures and improvements. A new day is here. Gradually, the drug model for treating diabetics and others will crumble, and...with this news...today is its birthday. <...> > Here's the great news. While you scientists kvetch about whther it's > applicable or not, real, living, breathing diabetics are going to try > it for themselves. Like my neighbor for instance. Does your neighbor know how to insert an arterial catheter into his groin, snake it through his aorta until it is near the pancreatic artery and be able to get it in the right spot? > And if it works, they are going to tell their fellow diabetics, kidney > dialysis patients etc. As the public's eyes open to this natural cure > (or improvement), then their eyes will gradually open to other natural > cures and improvements. Snaking a tube through the inside of the body is not a "natural" cure. It hasn't even been shown to be a cure in mice. > A new day is here. Gradually, the drug model for treating diabetics and > others will crumble, and...with this news...today is its birthday. Actually, the news came out yesterday. And this is a drug model. They are putting a drug in the body. And I do mean "in the body," with a tube in the groin snaking through the body. Jeff In alt.support.diabetes Jeff <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote: > <...> >> Here's the great news. While you scientists kvetch about whther it's >> applicable or not, real, living, breathing diabetics are going to try >> it for themselves. Like my neighbor for instance. > Does your neighbor know how to insert an arterial catheter into his groin, > snake it through his aorta until it is near the pancreatic artery and be > able to get it in the right spot? He believes in natural cures. That means he hasn't a clue and is either going to eat chilis or stuff them as far up his fundament as he can reach with a natural wooden stick. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] > In alt.support.diabetes Jeff <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > either going to eat chilis or stuff them as far up his fundament as he > can reach with a natural wooden stick. This doesn't follow logically. Neither eating enough chilis or stuffing them is natural. > In alt.support.diabetes Jeff <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > either going to eat chilis or stuff them as far up his fundament as he > can reach with a natural wooden stick. I've helped cure more people than you could ever dream of. So keep pricking your fingers like a good slave. > -- > Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 > IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK > [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >> In alt.support.diabetes Jeff <jeff@hotmail.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I've helped cure more people than you could ever dream of. So keep > pricking your fingers like a good slave. Malcolm, I think he made your point for you about not having a clue. Jeff >> -- >> Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 >> IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK >> [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] > <...> > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Jeff As usual, you're missing the point. The average diabetic who learns about this will take the hot peppers in capsules. They won't wait ten years for 'x' number of studies done in various ways, while their toes get cut off one by one. Nope. They'll go to the store and bypass your particularities. They probably won't be thinking about you or have even heard about you. Isn't that grand...people taking responsibility for their own health decisions. Your importance might wane, but that's how progress gets made. It's unknown as yet what level of benefit would be derived from a consistent oral ingestion of high heat-unit pepper would be. But you can be sure that there will be diabetics willing to find out. PS. I work in a health food store. You can be sure that along with high doses of cinnamon, alpha lipoic acid and such, this will become another option, especially for those with neuropathy. Of course, high dose SUBLINGUAL vitamin B-12 is yet another option. >> <...> >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Isn't that grand...people taking responsibility for their own health > decisions. Taking irresponsibility for their own health decisions is more like it, if they do what you suggest. > Your importance might wane, but that's how progress gets made. It's > unknown as yet what level of benefit would be derived from a consistent > oral ingestion of high heat-unit pepper would be. But you can be sure > that there will be diabetics willing to find out. That is incorrect. My importance won't wane. For that to happen, I would have to have importance to start with. Actually, they won't. They may that the peppers, but they will never know if it is working or not. > PS. I work in a health food store. You can be sure that along with high > doses of cinnamon, alpha lipoic acid and such, this will become another > option, especially for those with neuropathy. Of course, high dose > SUBLINGUAL vitamin B-12 is yet another option. And I can be sure that people will be taking more money off these folks without any evidence of benefit. Pathetic. Jeff > >> <...> > >> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Taking irresponsibility for their own health decisions is more like it, if > they do what you suggest. Adults get to make their own decisions. Don't you hate that? > > Your importance might wane, but that's how progress gets made. It's > > unknown as yet what level of benefit would be derived from a consistent [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Actually, they won't. They may that the peppers, but they will never know if > it is working or not. Sure they'll know. Maybe their symptoms will let up..a reversal of a steady worsening. Or maybe their sugar levels will stabilize. You might not consider that to be proof, but they would consider it enough proof for themselves to tell others. So guess who wins this fight? > > PS. I work in a health food store. You can be sure that along with high > > doses of cinnamon, alpha lipoic acid and such, this will become another [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And I can be sure that people will be taking more money off these folks > without any evidence of benefit. Like the gal with Type I diabetes who had severe neuropathy in her feet and elswhere, including gastric parysis (sp?). She got rid of much of her stomach paralysis in a day or two, by taking protein enzymes. She took some sublingual B-12 (5,000 mcg) on the way out of the store. By the time she got to her car, her pain was gone and stayed gone for 12 hours. She said that as long as she took the B-12 every 12 hours, she had no pain except for a little tingling when it was time to take another dose. Her mother told me that she would cry and scream from the pain she had. Now it's gone. I think the store made about $23 for the enzymes and another $15 for the sublingual B-12. For $38 dollars we did what her doctors were unable to do for many years...such as her stomach problem which had existed for six years and was diagnosed through ultrasound after eating hard boiled eggs. After two hours, the eggs were still in her stomach. > Pathetic. If it's pathetic in your eyes to cure people for $38, then so be it. I'm sure you'd have been right there to amputate the poor girl's feet while considering yourself a hero. Sick, grotesque and pathetic. This woman is still walking on her own two feet, no thanks to you and your peers. No trophy feet for you this time. >> <awthrawthr@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:1166328947.077343.286290@ [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > not consider that to be proof, but they would consider it enough proof > for themselves to tell others. Hey, anyone would consider that proof. Can you direct us to any Type 1 diabetic posters who have been able to control blood sugar levels with the things you suggest? > So guess who wins this fight? The skeptics unless you can find some diabetic believers to support you. >> And I can be sure that people will be taking more money off these folks >> without any evidence of benefit. > > Like the gal with Type I diabetes who had severe neuropathy in her feet > and elswhere, including gastric parysis (sp?). She got rid of much of > her stomach paralysis in a day or two, by taking protein enzymes. Have her tell us her story. Or *anyone* with a credible similar one. > She took some sublingual B-12 (5,000 mcg) on the way out of the store. > By the time she got to her car, her pain was gone and stayed gone for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Her mother told me that she would cry and scream from the pain she had. > Now it's gone. Praise be. Now get a few of them to post here and we'll be off to a new dawn. m <...> >> Taking irresponsibility for their own health decisions is more like it, >> if >> they do what you suggest. > > Adults get to make their own decisions. Don't you hate that? I hate that there are idiots out there giving them incorrect information. I mean, look at the crap you spew, when the data are freely available on the web in the actual Cell paper. <...> >> Pathetic. > > If it's pathetic in your eyes to cure people for $38, then so be it. > I'm sure you'd have been right there to amputate the poor girl's feet > while considering yourself a hero. It's pathetic to sell them a "cure" based on a conjecture that is not based on any evidence. Jeff http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts > <...> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I mean, look at the crap you spew, when the data are freely available on the > web in the actual Cell paper. Data that is from a blind alley where people end up believing their diabetes, either type-1 or type-2 will be cured with capsaicin: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/231456502e509042? May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our diabetes, depression, anxiety, or panic so that we can love our neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear neighbor Jeff whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love > <...> > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > It's pathetic to sell them a "cure" based on a conjecture that is not based > on any evidence. No you have it all backwards, Jeff. It's pathetic and it ought to be a crime for you to cut a person's feet or leg off when there are alternatives that saved that young woman's life. If she had talked to you, you'd be cutting off her legs. I saved her legs from an animal like you. DO YOU GET IT!! I HELPED SAVE HER LEGS FROM ALMOST CERTAIN AMPUTATION. AND I SAVED HER STOMACH FROM THE EFFECTS OF GASTRO PARESIS (sp?). Her doctors could not help her for SIX YEARS!! Look at how you cut out the facts of her case!! You're a disgusting human being...fighting for your 'right' to continue to amputate which is so important to you that you cut out the facts. > Jeff [Default] On 16 Dec 2006 20:50:11 -0800, awthrawthr@yahoo.com Giggled into the madness of usenet: this troll is a bell south user. OrgName: BellSouth.net Inc. OrgID: BELL Address: 575 Morosgo Drive City: Atlanta StateProv: GA PostalCode: 30324 Country: US ReferralServer: rwhois://rwhois.eng.bellsouth.net:4321 NetRange: 68.208.0.0 - 68.223.255.255 CIDR: 68.208.0.0/12 NetName: BELLSNET-BLK15 NetHandle: NET-68-208-0-0-1 Parent: NET-68-0-0-0-0 NetType: Direct Allocation NameServer: NS.BELLSOUTH.NET NameServer: NS.ATL.BELLSOUTH.NET Comment: Comment: For Abuse Issues, email abuse@bellsouth.net. NO ATTACHMENTS. Include IP Comment: address, time/date, message header, and attack logs. Comment: For Subpoena Request, email ipoperations@bellsouth.net with "SUBPOENA" in Comment: the subject line. Law Enforcement Agencies ONLY, please. RegDate: 2003-02-24 Updated: 2003-12-29 RAbuseHandle: ABUSE81-ARIN RAbuseName: Abuse Group RAbusePhone: +1-404-499-5224 RAbuseEmail: abuse@bellsouth.net RTechHandle: JG726-ARIN RTechName: Geurin, Joe RTechPhone: +1-404-499-5240 RTechEmail: ipoperations@bellsouth.net OrgAbuseHandle: ABUSE81-ARIN OrgAbuseName: Abuse Group OrgAbusePhone: +1-404-499-5224 OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@bellsouth.net OrgTechHandle: JG726-ARIN OrgTechName: Geurin, Joe OrgTechPhone: +1-404-499-5240 OrgTechEmail: ipoperations@bellsouth.net In alt.support.diabetes awthrawthr@yahoo.com wrote: >> <...> >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> >> Jeff > As usual, you're missing the point. The average diabetic who learns > about this will take the hot peppers in capsules. Of course, but the average diabetic doesn't read research papers. The average diabetic just takes advice from authoritative sources, which in some cases is a newspaper, magazine, or the person behind the counter in their local vitamin shop. Which I guess for some diabetics might be you. And you have actually had the opportunity via these newsgroups to read the actual report put out by the researchers. I can't see how anyone who actually read that could possibly imagine that taking hot peppers in capsules would have the effect on diabetes that the researchers discussed. I see, however, from other postings of yours of yours, that you have constructed some kind of half-baked rationale for them having an effect on diabetes based on getting rid of mucus and healing damaged nerve cells in the pancreas. Never mind that what the scientists reported actually contradicts that rationale. I'm sure that rationale will sell your pills to customers who haven't read the report, don't want to, and wouldn't understand it if they did. But what will you do if a diabetic customer capable of understanding the report, and whose advice other diabetics who shop in your store listen to, says they'd like to actually read the report first before buying the capsules, and asks you if you have a copy of it, or if you know where a copy could be found? SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] [Default] On 16 Dec 2006 20:15:47 -0800, awthrawthr@yahoo.com Giggled into the madness of usenet: >PS. I work in a health food store. You can be sure that along with high >doses of cinnamon, alpha lipoic acid and such, this will become another >option, especially for those with neuropathy. Of course, high dose >SUBLINGUAL vitamin B-12 is yet another option. isn't this spamming troll that was in here before pushing crap natural remedies? SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > [Default] On 16 Dec 2006 20:15:47 -0800, awthrawthr@yahoo.com Giggled > into the madness of usenet: > >>PS. I work in a health food store. You can be sure that along with >>high doses of cinnamon, alpha lipoic acid and such, this will become >>another option, especially for those with neuropathy. Of course, high >>dose SUBLINGUAL vitamin B-12 is yet another option. > > isn't this spamming troll that was in here before pushing crap natural > remedies? Yes, the one who was pushing a book so you could find out the big secret to fixing ED (the cure costs $1 but you have to buy the book to find out what the cure is). [Default] On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:01:26 +1100, "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> Giggled into the madness of usenet: >> [Default] On 16 Dec 2006 20:15:47 -0800, >awthrawthr@yahoo.com Giggled [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >the big secret to fixing ED (the cure costs $1 but you have >to buy the book to find out what the cure is). thought so, once a lying thief/scammer always a lying thief/scammer. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . [Default] On 16 Dec 2006 10:47:52 -0800, awthrawthr@yahoo.com Giggled into the madness of usenet: >Here's the great news. While you scientists kvetch about whther it's >applicable or not, real, living, breathing diabetics are going to try [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >A new day is here. Gradually, the drug model for treating diabetics and >others will crumble, and...with this news...today is its birthday. are you actually a diabetic? SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco" "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . >> >> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ea1de696e46d7a37? My response to Andrew's post in the thread "Re: Diabetes Breakthrough." Unfortunately, Andrew has the habit of starting new threads, which makes threads harder to follow. Jeff <...> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > >> >> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Unfortunately, Andrew has the habit of starting new threads, which makes > threads harder to follow. Actually, I did not start this thread. Here's the OP for this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/6f255b8f27e8c53f? > > They don't say exactly where the researchers are other than "Toronto", > > but that was where Banting and Best first figured out how to extract [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.sickkids.ca/mediaroom/custom/diabetesopen06.asp Thank you! It makes more sense than many of the news articles. > > If this pans out it will not only be wonderful for all of us (remember > > those TV ads for research funding from the 80's of all the diabetics [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Anyone else like to place a bet? While I'd like to see it pan out, I've seen enough other news releases come and go without being "the cure" that I'm not banking on it :-). All the same, many of the criticisms that have floated around about the new Toronto research tracks very closely the criticism that Banting and Best got about their research. Folks here are complaining that the researchers aren't endocrinologists: but remember that Banting was a medical doctor who had never even treated a diabetic before. People are complaining that diabetes in these mice isn't the same as most all diabetes in humans. But remember that Banting and Best were experimenting on dogs who had had their pancreas surgically altered in the guess that this could induce a type of diabetes that is in fact almost completely unlike the mechanisms that most people get diabetes. And whether this results in "the cure" or a prevention or something else, it is remarkable that such interesting stuff is still being done in Toronto. Tim. Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in news:4ui0vvF18eseaU1 @mid.individual.net: > I'd like to place my bet now on this panning out :-) > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Anyone else like to place a bet? I'd bet that way too as far as the treatment actually working. I'd bet against you if we were betting on whether the treatment will come to market. One shot? Eliminating all those lucrative strips and whatnot? I'm sure Big Pharma will be jumping all over themselves trying to get that to market. NOT. Chak SignatureI've learned that whenever I decide something with an open heart, I usually make the right decision. --Maya Angelou > Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in news:4ui0vvF18eseaU1 > @mid.individual.net: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I'm sure Big Pharma will be jumping all over themselves trying to get > that to market. NOT. The treatment involves inserting a catheter into the groin, through the aorta, into the pancreatic arteries. This requires X-ray equip. I would imagine that it would cost around $8k (or $2k in India, with airfare). It is not cheap. Big Pharma might not be trying to get this to market, but I bet some startups will. Remember how some little startup guy who made IBM-compatable computers in his college dorm and started selling them? Now, it is the second biggest computer maker (Dell). Startups do take off. Jeff > Chak >> Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in news:4ui0vvF18eseaU1 >> @mid.individual.net: >> >>> I'd like to place my bet now on this panning out :-) Me too :) >>> It may not be exactly the same as in humans. It's not unlikely that we >>> are different enough from mice that some of the treatment delivery >>> route might be affected, but my bet is that this involves a >>> sufficiently ancient and basic part of mammalian BG control Think so too >>> ought to be possible to develop a treamtment applicable to humans from >>> this, even if the specific method used on the mice doesn't work on us. >>> >>> Anyone else like to place a bet? Yep !! > The treatment involves inserting a catheter into the groin, through the > aorta, into the pancreatic arteries. This requires X-ray equip. I would > imagine that it would cost around $8k (or $2k in India, with airfare). It > is not cheap. In the article the mice were treated "in utero" with capsaicine which killed their pancreatic nerve cells even before they were born.The researchers also injected the adult mice directly with capsaicine in their pancreas.This also killed their nerve cells. Ok But both actions were directed to the whole nerve cell.In the article the researchers also showed that letting the nerve cell live and just blocking their no-specific cation channel , TRPV1 , also works.So there are more options than just pepper !!! In fact The article goes a long way to prove that not the nerve cell itself but rather the TRPV1+ (a hyperfunctional mutant) is the causing agent.And TRPV1+ may well be present on a lot of other cells (???) > Big Pharma might not be trying to get this to market, but I bet some > startups will. Big pharma will defenitely start looking for blockers of TRPV1 , much more elegant and usefull than killing all the nerves in the pancreas of an adult T1 or T2 with an infusion of capsaicine in the pancreatic artery .Seems a heavy gun to use an infusion with such a toxic substance. My two cents hth Gys >>> Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in news:4ui0vvF18eseaU1 >>> @mid.individual.net: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > researchers also injected the adult mice directly with capsaicine in their > pancreas.This also killed their nerve cells. I think this is one of those things were the news articles are misleading or something. http://www.cell.com/content/article/fulltext/?uid=PIIS0092867406014656 The capsaicin was injected S.C. (subcutenous, that is, just under the skin) in 2 day-old mice pups. In adults, they used substance P, which works on the same receptor. The substance P was injected into the celiac artery, which is the artery that supplies the intestine, stomach and pancreas. In theory, it could be that the effect of substance P was on intestinal cells was vital to the therapy controling diabetes, although I agree with the authors' conclusion about the effects being on the pancreatic cells. Until there are further studies on substance P and pancreatic cells, we won't know for sure. > Ok > But both actions were directed to the whole nerve cell. Substance P is released by the nerve fibers. It appears that substance P is normally released (in non-diabetic mice) and helps keep the immune cells that cause type 1 diabetes in check. So, substance P had a antiimflamtory affect. > In the article the researchers also showed that letting the nerve cell > live and just blocking their no-specific cation channel , TRPV1 , also > works.So there are more options than just pepper !!! In fact The article > goes a long way to prove that not the nerve cell itself but rather the > TRPV1+ (a hyperfunctional mutant) is the causing agent.And TRPV1+ may > well be present on a lot of other cells (???) This same system (TRPV1 and substance P) appears to play a critical role in asthma. >> Big Pharma might not be trying to get this to market, but I bet some >> startups will. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > adult T1 or T2 with an infusion of capsaicine in the pancreatic artery > .Seems a heavy gun to use an infusion with such a toxic substance. I am sure that both big Pharma and startups (which become part of big Pharma if things go well) are looking at this very closely. Jeff > My two cents > hth > Gys >http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 Sounds to simple. Nice to think that someday a cure for this mess may become reality. > http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 I read the study carefully. It says nothing about a "cure." While it is clearly a potential treatment, there is nothing that suggests that diabetes was really cured in the mice. It may be that people would require treatment every year or two. There may be complications from the surgery. Furtheremore, the mice had specific mutations in their genome (genetic code). This may greatly benefit some patients, but not others. Jeff >> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Furtheremore, the mice had specific mutations in their genome (genetic > code). This may greatly benefit some patients, but not others. Hi Jeff , well it actually does Here is a citation from the article : "Our observations open new avenues for therapeutic strategies, raising the possibility that sensory nerve dysfunction may contribute to prediabetes initiation and progression in diabetes-prone humans." The the researchers had this questions : if the pancreatic nerve cell is activated via its TRPV1 receptor , it releases a neuropeptide .Are there indeed more of this ? Does it help if we do only something about this peptide ? Here is a quote from the article : "After sP administration, and without insulin therapy, over half of the i.a. injected diabetics normalized blood glucose levels (Figure 6E, red lines). In these fully responsive mice, fasting blood glucose returned to near normal levels rapidly and remained at these levels for 2-8 weeks. Raising pancreatic sP levels dramatically enhanced insulin sensitivity, suggesting that the elevated insulin resistance at diagnosis was normalized (Figure 6F). And 2 - 8 weeks is a life long for mice hth Gys >>> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a 598ab5d1bf&k=63970 >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > initiation and progression in diabetes-prone > humans." Open up new avenues means that it is possible that this would work in humans, but not proven. There is a lot of work to do before this would be used regularly in humans. > The the researchers had this questions : if the pancreatic nerve cell is > activated via its TRPV1 receptor , it releases a neuropeptide .Are there [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > suggesting that the elevated insulin resistance at diagnosis was > normalized (Figure 6F). But, they don't know what the effects of Substance P are. They may even be in cells outside the pancreas, like in the Thymus or lymph nodes. And clearly, they are affecting cells outside the pancreas, because the insulin sensitivity occurs in other cells that take up and use glucose. > And 2 - 8 weeks is a life long for mice > hth Mice live a year or more. But, that doesn't mean that this would work longer than 2-8 weeks in humans. Don't get me wrong, I think this would work in humans, but it far too early to tell. But it is a good start. Jeff > Gys |
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