Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / January 2007
refined and raw sugar, diabetes
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QnA - 14 Dec 2006 19:56 GMT Hi all,
On the radio the other day, someone said that they now think that refined sugar is one cause of diabetes, along with other refined foods like white flour, because it causes a burst of insulin in the blood, whereas raw ingredients slow down the digestion and are therefore less of a risk for diabetes.
My question is, is "sugar in the raw" the best alternative to refined? How about honey or brown sugar?
Thanks.
Jeff - 14 Dec 2006 20:16 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > My question is, is "sugar in the raw" the best alternative to refined? > How about honey or brown sugar? I think artificial sweetners are better alteratives.
If it is granular and disolves in water (like sugar in the raw), it will be absorbed very rapidly.
I doubt sugar in the raw is any better than so-called refined sugar.
The FAQ from the Sugar in the Raw site says:
"Is Sugar In The Raw safe for diabetics? Sugar In The Raw is metabolized in the body in the same manner as regular sugar. Accordingly, it is not recommended to individuals who must restrict their sugar consumption such as diabetics."
It is the same as drinking refined sugar. http://www.sugarintheraw.com/html/faqs/index.html
> Thanks. ray - 14 Dec 2006 20:21 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks. No. The best alternative would be less carbs. An artificial sweetener or do without.
coonskin@amestwp.com - 14 Dec 2006 20:26 GMT "My question is, is "sugar in the raw" the best alternative to refined? How about honey or brown sugar?"
From a diabetic perspective all of the above are the same. Raw and brown sugar are steps in the making of table sugar. They have more of the substances which color the cane/beet sucrose which is the name for the sugar combination found in those plants. Honey has the same sugar combinations as the plant sources and is in fact the same as found in fruits.
In addition, sugars stored in rice and potatoes and pasta and bread and other high starch carbohydrates are very quickly turned into glucose in the body. Glucose is the most common form of sugars and diabetics have as much problems using these kinds of foods as they do with table sugar..
Sugar does not cause diabetes, a genetic foundation is required and overeating and lack of physical activity promote the metabolic processes which in time lead to diabetes.
tommyhawk@gmail.com - 14 Dec 2006 21:01 GMT > Sugar does not cause diabetes, a genetic foundation is required and > overeating and lack of physical activity promote the metabolic processes > which in time lead to diabetes. Simply not true, insofar as regarding the requirement of a genetic foundation. High-GI foods and/or high fat foods (in particular the bad fats: rancid fats, overheated fats, saturated fats, and trans fats) will, in abundance, almost inevitably lead to type-2 diabetes.
Not all sugars are equal, either. Some have lower GI values than others, meaning they are more slowly absorbed and therefore cause less of an insulin spike. Pure maple and honey are two examples (watch out, the maple "flavored" syrup Aunt Jemima sells is nearly pure fructose, as is most of the pancake syrups in grocery stores). Not that I recommend lower-GI sugars beyond reasonable small amounts, but the myth that all sugars are equal is just that.
The worst of all sugars is fructose, especially of course, Japan's abominable creation: high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS), the preferred sugar in most sodas, sports drinks, breads, frozen foods, processed foods, candies, you-name-it. This sugar, in any form, most readily converts to fat and leads to obesity through over-usage -- the kind of over-usage typical in American diets. Note the following article on Fructose, one of the better ones I can quickly find on the net: http://www.parrillo.com/publications/87.pdf In the book Fat Land, the author makes a convincing case in showing that the growing use of HFCS in America since early 1970 parallels the growing obesity epidemic in America. Our nation's use of HFCS provides us with super cheap calories, very stable and versatile in cooking, and super sweet. It's hard to find foods without them, and I think they are just as deadly to our ongoing health as trans fats.
Scott Miller a.k.a. DukeNukem (on ImmInst.com)
coonskin@amestwp.com - 14 Dec 2006 22:03 GMT Regarding that diabetes has a genetic foundation which with the addition of excess weight and lack of physical exercise comes before type 2 diabetes:
"Simply not true, insofar as regarding the requirement of a genetic foundation. High-GI foods and/or high fat foods (in particular the bad fats: rancid fats, overheated fats, saturated fats, and trans fats) will, in abundance, almost inevitably lead to type-2 diabetes."
Evidence would be nice here if you please. Most recent literature does not support this idea and ever increasing genetic research supports the genetic foundation view. Not all people who are overweight and don't exercise get diabetes, about 1 in 4 do. The difference is the genetic foundation. Also, different genetic populations in different places in the world get diabetes at very different rates.
"Not all sugars are equal, either. Some have lower GI values than others, meaning they are more slowly absorbed and therefore cause less of an insulin spike. Pure maple and honey are two examples (watch out,the maple "flavored" syrup Aunt Jemima sells is nearly pure fructose, as is most of the pancake syrups in grocery stores). Not that I recommend lower-GI sugars beyond reasonable small amounts, but the myth that all sugars are equal is just that."
You confuse sources of natural mixtures containing sugars with the sugars which make up part of them. Fructose and glucose are the sugars found in most food sources such as maple syrup from trees. Flavored mixtures using flavors and sugars in water from other sources were not the original question.
Once in the gut all sugars are absorbed almost instantly,ie. a few minutes. Sugars mixed with other substances can affect how quickly the absorption of foods occurs but not sugars alone. The gi is a measure of glucose alone and not fructose, recalling that many food sources are made up 50/50 of both.
Nicky - 14 Dec 2006 22:37 GMT > Simply not true, insofar as regarding the requirement of a genetic > foundation. Bollocks. You get thin Type 2s and obese non-diabetics. Check out the research at essex.ac.uk for the myriad of genetic pathways to diabetes.
Nicky.
 Signature A1c 10.5/5.5/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 100ug Thyroxine 95/72/72Kg
spamfree@spam.heaven - 09 Jan 2007 04:18 GMT >> Sugar does not cause diabetes, a genetic foundation is required and >> overeating and lack of physical activity promote the metabolic processes [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >super sweet. It's hard to find foods without them, and I think they >are just as deadly to our ongoing health as trans fats. This is silly. Taking a biochemical pathway out of context and trying to make a case that this occurs despite everyting else going on.
The rest of the world is getting fat on 50/50 glucose/fructose mixtures, so HFCS is not the culprit, the culprit is TOO MANY CALORIES. If you only take in the calories required for the day's activities, it makes no odds if fructose is converted to fat. It will all be burned up carrying out the day's activities, so what. Sheeesh! talk about desperately looking for a silver bullet.
jack
QnA - 14 Dec 2006 22:57 GMT > In addition, sugars stored in rice and potatoes and pasta and bread and > other high starch carbohydrates are very quickly turned into glucose in > the body. How about "sprouted" bread, which is supposedly never baked?
coonskin@amestwp.com - 15 Dec 2006 00:11 GMT "> In addition, sugars stored in rice and potatoes and pasta and bread and
> other high starch carbohydrates are very quickly turned into glucose in > the body. How about "sprouted" bread, which is supposedly never baked?"
I have never looked at it in any detail. When sprouted the grains have used some of the stored sugars for plant growth. The partially sprouted grains are then ground into a meal and added to other flours to make bread. I'm pretty sure it is baked.
Anil - 15 Dec 2006 01:57 GMT > How about "sprouted" bread, which is supposedly never baked?" Well I can not comment on Sprouted bread but consider 100 gms of sprouted mung beans and compare it with un-spouted ones. Ref: http://tinyurl.com/y3k2ty un-sprouted, cooked beans contain: 18.4 gms of carb,
Ref: http://tinyurl.com/u4nr4 Sprouted Raw mung beans contain: 5.8 gms of carb!
So you can see there is significant reduction in carb contains. But that is just the teaser. The real benefit is in increased Vitamins (ref: http://tinyurl.com/w93cw) specifically B vitamin (ref: http://tinyurl.com/y5bn6a). They are easy on Met diet and don't contribute to global warming :-)
Sprouted beans along with nuts is my main source for protein.
Anil T2DM Eating plant based whole food diet waling 6 miles a day/100 miles a month
Enrico C - 06 Jan 2007 14:46 GMT [...]
> In addition, sugars stored in rice and potatoes and pasta and bread and > other high starch carbohydrates are very quickly turned into glucose in > the body. Hold on... Satiety is key. :-)
 Signature Enrico C
My new email address: http://www.x-privat.org/sigmail/sig-5ace6.png
Paul Antonik Wakfer - 14 Dec 2006 20:54 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > My question is, is "sugar in the raw" the best alternative to refined? > How about honey or brown sugar? You can get all the sweetening that you need from fruits. The only cane sugar product that I ever use is black strap molasses. Use raisins, dried figs, apricots, black currants, cherries, barley malt extract, black strap molasses, etc as a replacement for sugar in all recipes. Also use plenty of berries of all kinds.
See my recipe for cranberry sauce easily made from nothing but cranberries and raisins at: http://morelife.org/personal/health/dietregimen.html#cranberrysauce
--Paul Wakfer
MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality The Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting
Juhana Harju - 14 Dec 2006 21:30 GMT : Hi all, : [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] : : Thanks. Raw cane sugar and honey are slightly less harmful than white sugar. Raw cane sugar contains some minerals e.g. chromium needed in sugar metabolism. Honey has some minerals too, and several studies show that honey improves beneficial bifido bacteria in the colon. In addition raw honey contains food enzymes.
 Signature Juhana
Enrico C - 06 Jan 2007 14:41 GMT > Raw cane sugar and honey are slightly less harmful than white sugar. "Slightly"? So, why bother? :-)
 Signature Enrico C
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Juhana Harju - 06 Jan 2007 14:59 GMT :: Raw cane sugar and honey are slightly less harmful than white sugar. : : "Slightly"? So, why bother? :-) It matters if you do many things that are slightly better.
 Signature Juhana
Chris Malcolm - 06 Jan 2007 17:34 GMT In alt.support.diabetes Juhana Harju <spamshantigiriorama.removespam@gmail.com> wrote:
> :: Raw cane sugar and honey are slightly less harmful than white sugar. > : > : "Slightly"? So, why bother? :-)
> It matters if you do many things that are slightly better. It does when the "better" is positive so you're incrementing a lot of small gains. Not when "slightly better" = "slightly less harmful" as in this case, because then you're simply removing a little bit from a large pile of harm.
 Signature Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Gantlet - 14 Dec 2006 22:40 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks. This is how I looked at sugar as a newly diagnosed diabetic. "STAY AWAY FROM IT". I stayed away from it for about 6 months to get used to eating things with out it. Do I eat sugar from time to time as a treat. yes. I can easily put a tea spoon in my coffee or on other things. the trouble is when ever i have sugar i find myself putting a tea spoon on more and more things. Create a diet you are most likely to stick to. for me that means eating treats once and a while.
Tom
Ma¢k - 15 Dec 2006 05:06 GMT [Default] On 14 Dec 2006 11:56:54 -0800, "QnA" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> Giggled into the madness of usenet:
not cross posted to these off topic groups:sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,
>Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >insulin in the blood, whereas raw ingredients slow down the >digestion and are therefore less of a risk for diabetes. you were lied to.
>My question is, is "sugar in the raw" the best alternative to refined? >How about honey or brown sugar? > >Thanks. raw or refined it will still impact your BG the same way.
 Signature Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
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DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
Ted Rosenberg - 06 Jan 2007 19:31 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thanks. "someone said" "they think"
Unmitigated crap!
sugar, does NOT cause diabetes Not refined not raw NOT BROWN NOT GREEN
Notice that the scam post was crossposted to "life-extension"
That alone should indicate that this is bullcrap
Ma¢k - 07 Jan 2007 14:32 GMT [Default] On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:31:03 -0500, Ted Rosenberg <tedrosenberg@iname.com> Giggled into the madness of usenet:
>> Hi all, >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >That alone should indicate that this is bullcrap ted is correct.
this post not cross posted to nutter group.
 Signature Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt
(o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins
DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... .
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