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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / January 2007

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refined and raw sugar, diabetes

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QnA - 14 Dec 2006 19:56 GMT
Hi all,

On the radio the other day, someone said that they now think
that refined sugar is one cause of diabetes, along with other
refined foods like white flour, because it causes a burst of
insulin in the blood, whereas raw ingredients slow down the
digestion and are therefore less of a risk for diabetes.

My question is, is "sugar in the raw" the best alternative to refined?
How about honey or brown sugar?

Thanks.
Jeff - 14 Dec 2006 20:16 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> My question is, is "sugar in the raw" the best alternative to refined?
> How about honey or brown sugar?

I think artificial sweetners are better alteratives.

If it is granular and disolves in water (like sugar in the raw), it will be
absorbed very rapidly.

I doubt sugar in the raw is any better than so-called refined sugar.

The FAQ from the Sugar in the Raw site says:

"Is Sugar In The Raw safe for diabetics?
Sugar In The Raw is metabolized in the body in the same manner as regular
sugar. Accordingly, it is not recommended to individuals who must restrict
their sugar consumption such as diabetics."

It is the same as drinking refined sugar.
http://www.sugarintheraw.com/html/faqs/index.html

> Thanks.
ray - 14 Dec 2006 20:21 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Thanks.

No. The best alternative would be less carbs. An artificial sweetener or
do without.
coonskin@amestwp.com - 14 Dec 2006 20:26 GMT
"My question is, is "sugar in the raw" the best alternative to refined?
How about honey or brown sugar?"

From a diabetic perspective all of the above are the same.  Raw and
brown sugar are steps in the making of table sugar.  They have more of
the substances which color the cane/beet sucrose which is the name for
the sugar combination found in those plants.  Honey has the same sugar
combinations as the plant sources and is in fact the same as found in
fruits.

In addition, sugars stored in rice and potatoes and pasta and bread and
other high starch carbohydrates are very quickly turned into glucose in
the body.  Glucose is the most common form of sugars and diabetics have
as much problems using these kinds of foods as they do with table
sugar..

Sugar does not cause diabetes, a genetic foundation is required and
overeating and lack of physical activity promote the metabolic processes
which in time lead to diabetes.
tommyhawk@gmail.com - 14 Dec 2006 21:01 GMT
> Sugar does not cause diabetes, a genetic foundation is required and
> overeating and lack of physical activity promote the metabolic processes
> which in time lead to diabetes.

Simply not true, insofar as regarding the requirement of a genetic
foundation.  High-GI foods and/or high fat foods (in particular the bad
fats: rancid fats, overheated fats, saturated fats, and trans fats)
will, in abundance, almost inevitably lead to type-2 diabetes.

Not all sugars are equal, either.  Some have lower GI values than
others, meaning they are more slowly absorbed and therefore cause less
of an insulin spike.  Pure maple and honey are two examples (watch out,
the maple "flavored" syrup Aunt Jemima sells is nearly pure fructose,
as is most of the pancake syrups in grocery stores).  Not that I
recommend lower-GI sugars beyond reasonable small amounts, but the myth
that all sugars are equal is just that.

The worst of all sugars is fructose, especially of course, Japan's
abominable creation: high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS), the preferred
sugar in most sodas, sports drinks, breads, frozen foods, processed
foods, candies, you-name-it.  This sugar, in any form, most readily
converts to fat and leads to obesity through over-usage -- the kind of
over-usage typical in American diets.  Note the following article on
Fructose, one of the better ones I can quickly find on the net:
http://www.parrillo.com/publications/87.pdf
In the book Fat Land, the author makes a convincing case in showing
that the growing use of HFCS in America since early 1970 parallels the
growing obesity epidemic in America.  Our nation's use of HFCS provides
us with super cheap calories, very stable and versatile in cooking, and
super sweet.  It's hard to find foods without them, and I think they
are just as deadly to our ongoing health as trans fats.

Scott Miller
a.k.a. DukeNukem (on ImmInst.com)
coonskin@amestwp.com - 14 Dec 2006 22:03 GMT
Regarding that diabetes has a genetic foundation which with the addition of
excess weight and lack of physical exercise comes before type 2 diabetes:

"Simply not true, insofar as regarding the requirement of a genetic
foundation.  High-GI foods and/or high fat foods (in particular the bad
fats: rancid fats, overheated fats, saturated fats, and trans fats) will,
in abundance, almost inevitably lead to type-2 diabetes."

Evidence would be nice here if you please. Most recent literature does not
support this idea and ever increasing genetic research supports the genetic
foundation view.  Not all people who are overweight and don't exercise get
diabetes, about 1 in 4 do.  The difference is the genetic foundation. Also,
different genetic populations in different places in the world get diabetes
at very different rates.

"Not all sugars are equal, either.  Some have lower GI values than others,
meaning they are more slowly absorbed and therefore cause less of an
insulin spike.  Pure maple and honey are two examples (watch out,the maple
"flavored" syrup Aunt Jemima sells is nearly pure fructose, as is most of
the pancake syrups in grocery stores).  Not that I recommend lower-GI
sugars beyond reasonable small amounts, but the myth that all sugars are
equal is just that."

You confuse sources of natural mixtures containing sugars with the sugars
which make up part of them.  Fructose and glucose are the sugars found in
most food sources such as maple syrup from trees.  Flavored mixtures using
flavors and sugars in water from other sources were not the original
question.

Once in the gut all sugars are absorbed almost instantly,ie. a few minutes.
Sugars mixed with other substances can affect how quickly the absorption of
foods occurs but not sugars alone.  The gi is a measure of glucose alone
and not fructose, recalling that many food sources are made up 50/50 of
both.
Nicky - 14 Dec 2006 22:37 GMT
> Simply not true, insofar as regarding the requirement of a genetic
> foundation.

Bollocks. You get thin Type 2s and obese non-diabetics. Check out the
research at essex.ac.uk for the myriad of genetic pathways to diabetes.

Nicky.

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A1c 10.5/5.5/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
100ug Thyroxine
95/72/72Kg

spamfree@spam.heaven - 09 Jan 2007 04:18 GMT
>> Sugar does not cause diabetes, a genetic foundation is required and
>> overeating and lack of physical activity promote the metabolic processes
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>super sweet.  It's hard to find foods without them, and I think they
>are just as deadly to our ongoing health as trans fats.

This is silly. Taking a biochemical pathway out of context and trying
to make a case that this occurs despite everyting else going on.

The rest of the world is getting fat on 50/50 glucose/fructose
mixtures, so HFCS is not the culprit, the culprit is TOO MANY
CALORIES. If you only take in the calories required for the day's
activities, it makes no odds if fructose is converted to fat. It will
all be burned up carrying out the day's activities, so what.
Sheeesh! talk about desperately looking for a silver bullet.

jack
QnA - 14 Dec 2006 22:57 GMT
> In addition, sugars stored in rice and potatoes and pasta and bread and
> other high starch carbohydrates are very quickly turned into glucose in
> the body.

How about "sprouted" bread, which is supposedly never baked?
coonskin@amestwp.com - 15 Dec 2006 00:11 GMT
"> In addition, sugars stored in rice and potatoes and pasta and bread
and
> other high starch carbohydrates are very quickly turned into glucose in
> the body.

How about "sprouted" bread, which is supposedly never baked?"

I have never looked at it in any detail.  When sprouted the grains have
used some of the stored sugars for plant growth.  The partially sprouted
grains are then ground into a meal and added to other flours to make
bread.  I'm pretty sure it is baked.
Anil - 15 Dec 2006 01:57 GMT
> How about "sprouted" bread, which is supposedly never baked?"

Well I can not comment on Sprouted bread but consider 100 gms of
sprouted mung beans and compare it with un-spouted ones.
Ref: http://tinyurl.com/y3k2ty
un-sprouted, cooked beans contain: 18.4  gms of carb,

Ref: http://tinyurl.com/u4nr4
Sprouted Raw mung beans contain:    5.8 gms of carb!

So you can see there is significant reduction in carb contains. But
that is just the teaser. The real benefit is in increased Vitamins
(ref: http://tinyurl.com/w93cw) specifically B vitamin (ref:
http://tinyurl.com/y5bn6a). They are easy on Met diet and don't
contribute to global warming :-)

Sprouted beans along with nuts is my main source for protein.

Anil
T2DM
Eating plant based whole food diet
waling 6 miles a day/100 miles a month
Enrico C - 06 Jan 2007 14:46 GMT
[...]
> In addition, sugars stored in rice and potatoes and pasta and bread and
> other high starch carbohydrates are very quickly turned into glucose in
> the body.

Hold on... Satiety is key. :-)


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Enrico C

My new email address: http://www.x-privat.org/sigmail/sig-5ace6.png

Paul Antonik Wakfer - 14 Dec 2006 20:54 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> My question is, is "sugar in the raw" the best alternative to refined?
> How about honey or brown sugar?

You can get all the sweetening that you need from fruits.
The only cane sugar product that I ever use is black strap molasses.
Use raisins, dried figs, apricots, black currants, cherries, barley
malt extract, black strap molasses, etc as a replacement for sugar in
all recipes. Also use plenty of berries of all kinds.

See my recipe for cranberry sauce easily made from nothing but
cranberries and raisins at:
http://morelife.org/personal/health/dietregimen.html#cranberrysauce

--Paul Wakfer

MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
The Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting
Juhana Harju - 14 Dec 2006 21:30 GMT
: Hi all,
:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
:
: Thanks.

Raw cane sugar and honey are slightly less harmful than white sugar. Raw
cane sugar contains some minerals e.g. chromium needed in sugar metabolism.
Honey has some minerals too, and several studies show that honey improves
beneficial bifido bacteria in the colon. In addition raw honey contains food
enzymes.

Signature

Juhana

Enrico C - 06 Jan 2007 14:41 GMT
> Raw cane sugar and honey are slightly less harmful than white sugar.

"Slightly"? So, why bother? :-)

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Enrico C

My new email address: http://www.x-privat.org/sigmail/sig-5ace6.png

Juhana Harju - 06 Jan 2007 14:59 GMT
:: Raw cane sugar and honey are slightly less harmful than white sugar.
:
: "Slightly"? So, why bother? :-)

It matters if you do many things that are slightly better.

Signature

Juhana

Chris Malcolm - 06 Jan 2007 17:34 GMT
In alt.support.diabetes Juhana Harju <spamshantigiriorama.removespam@gmail.com> wrote:

> :: Raw cane sugar and honey are slightly less harmful than white sugar.
> :
> : "Slightly"? So, why bother? :-)

> It matters if you do many things that are slightly better.

It does when the "better" is positive so you're incrementing a lot of
small gains. Not when "slightly better" = "slightly less harmful" as
in this case, because then you're simply removing a little bit from a
large pile of harm.

Signature

Chris Malcolm        cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk              DoD #205
IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Gantlet - 14 Dec 2006 22:40 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Thanks.

This is how I looked at sugar as a newly diagnosed diabetic.
"STAY AWAY FROM IT".    I stayed away from it for about 6 months
to get used to eating things with out it.  Do I eat sugar from time to time
as a treat.
yes.  I can easily put a tea spoon in my coffee or on other things.
the trouble is when ever i have sugar i find myself putting a tea spoon on
more and more things.  Create a diet you are most likely to stick to.  for
me that means eating treats once and a while.

Tom
Ma¢k - 15 Dec 2006 05:06 GMT
[Default] On 14 Dec 2006 11:56:54 -0800, "QnA" <yubbers9@yahoo.com>
Giggled into the madness of usenet:

not cross posted to these off topic
groups:sci.med.nutrition,sci.life-extension,
>Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>insulin in the blood, whereas raw ingredients slow down the
>digestion and are therefore less of a risk for diabetes.

you were lied to.

>My question is, is "sugar in the raw" the best alternative to refined?
>How about honey or brown sugar?
>
>Thanks.

raw or refined it will still impact your BG the same way.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
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DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
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If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
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Ted Rosenberg - 06 Jan 2007 19:31 GMT
> Hi all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Thanks.

"someone said"  "they think"

Unmitigated crap!

sugar, does NOT cause diabetes
Not refined
not raw
NOT BROWN
NOT GREEN

Notice that the scam post was crossposted to "life-extension"

That alone should indicate that this is bullcrap
Ma¢k - 07 Jan 2007 14:32 GMT
[Default] On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 14:31:03 -0500, Ted Rosenberg
<tedrosenberg@iname.com> Giggled into the madness of usenet:

>> Hi all,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>That alone should indicate that this is bullcrap

ted is correct.

this post not cross posted to nutter group.
Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://www.pandora.com  enter "Jason & Demarco"

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

 
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