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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / December 2006

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Tingling Feet Question

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Jan - 14 Dec 2006 16:54 GMT
Hi all.   I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot
every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep.  I just figured
I was sitting wrong etc.  Now after starting to read Gretchen's book
that it is a sympton of Neuro.... (cant remember how to spell it. :) )
Anyway, this week, since i have doubled my dose of Metformin to 1000mg
twice a day, it is happening every evening in both feet and going up my
leg.  I thought I remember somewhere in her book that she said if you
are having this problem in the evening it could be from a spike in your
BG 12 hours prior. I cannot find that section in the book now that i
need to re-read.  Does this sound familiar to anyone?  Is it normal to
have an increase in this when you are initially getting your BG level
down?  I just find it odd that now I am on meds, watching what I eat,
it is getting worse.  
Jan
ray - 14 Dec 2006 17:49 GMT
> Hi all.   I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot
> every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep.  I just figured
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> it is getting worse.  
> Jan

You might try alpha-lipoic acid and B12 together with folic acid. I have
had a similar problem and that seems to help a bit. I still have a bit of
a tingle in my left heel whenever BG is over about 120.

How has your BG level been?
Jan - 14 Dec 2006 17:55 GMT
I dont know.  I dont have a meter yet and do not get it until MOnday.
I have an appt. with the Dietician next week as well.  Dr. said just to
watch startches. (Very generic if you ask me).  That would mean i could
eat all the candy and pop I wanted.  Is it normal to have symptoms
increase while you are getting your levels down?

> > Hi all.   I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot
> > every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep.  I just figured
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> How has your BG level been?
Susan - 14 Dec 2006 17:59 GMT
> I dont know.  I dont have a meter yet and do not get it until MOnday.
> I have an appt. with the Dietician next week as well.  Dr. said just to
> watch startches. (Very generic if you ask me).  That would mean i could
> eat all the candy and pop I wanted.  Is it normal to have symptoms
> increase while you are getting your levels down?

Folks've reported that, too, if there was numbness before.  When the
nerves begin to regenerate, some folks experience the return of
sensation as pain or discomfort.  No one here can tell you which you're
having, though, and without a meter, you don't know what level may
trigger them.

My own experience may differ from yours, but I found that it got
consistently worse the entire time I was on metformin, but that was
during a time that I was also severely adrenally suppressed, too, so it
may not be applicable.

Susan
ray - 14 Dec 2006 20:26 GMT
> I dont know.  I dont have a meter yet and do not get it until MOnday.
> I have an appt. with the Dietician next week as well.  Dr. said just to
> watch startches. (Very generic if you ask me).  That would mean i could
> eat all the candy and pop I wanted.  Is it normal to have symptoms
> increase while you are getting your levels down?

These are my own opinions, and I'm no doc.

IMHO - docs who tell you to 'watch the starches' or similar idiocy should
at least be barred from practicing - better they should be drawn and
quartered - they will kill you. What you need to do, if you don't want to
die prematurely and suffer all the while, is - radically modify your diet
- restrict carb intake as much as feasible, and increase exercise - that's
the only way you're going to get your BG down - and you should certainly
have a meter and be testing regularly when you go on medication -
otherwise how will you tell what it's doing?

>> > Hi all.   I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot
>> > every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep.  I just figured
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>>
>> How has your BG level been?
Cheri - 14 Dec 2006 20:58 GMT
As another non-doctor, I share your opinion of these types of real
doctors. :-)
--
Cheri

ray wrote in message ...

>These are my own opinions, and I'm no doc.
>
>IMHO - docs who tell you to 'watch the starches' or similar idiocy should
>at least be barred from practicing - better they should be drawn and
>quartered - they will kill you.
Nicky - 14 Dec 2006 22:29 GMT
>I dont know.  I dont have a meter yet and do not get it until MOnday.
> I have an appt. with the Dietician next week as well.  Dr. said just to
> watch startches. (Very generic if you ask me).  That would mean i could
> eat all the candy and pop I wanted.  Is it normal to have symptoms
> increase while you are getting your levels down?

Yes. (Not that you're sure that's happening, without a meter - you're going
to have some surprises when it shows up.) It can be a sign of healing - when
my neuropathy was going away, I used to be able to tell when my bg was going
up past a given number, because it hurt like hell above that then went numb
and tingly at a higher number still. At one time, I had excruciating pains
when I hit a massive 120 - that was a very unpleasant few weeks. Now I have
normal sensitivity in both feet - this time last year, I had a big patch on
each foot that was permanently numb, I drew round the patch in marker pen
and took a photo last Boxing Day : )

Nicky.

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Julie Bove - 16 Dec 2006 20:26 GMT
> I dont know.  I dont have a meter yet and do not get it until MOnday.
> I have an appt. with the Dietician next week as well.  Dr. said just to
> watch startches. (Very generic if you ask me).  That would mean i could
> eat all the candy and pop I wanted.  Is it normal to have symptoms
> increase while you are getting your levels down?

If your nerves are regenerating, then the pain can increase.  Just a thought
though...  Are you eating fruit?  Fruit is very high in carbs.

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Susan - 14 Dec 2006 17:53 GMT
> Hi all.   I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot
> every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep.  I just figured
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> it is getting worse.  
> Jan

Jan, when I was on metformin, I had more frequent tingling/stinging in
my feet at night than I have since, keeping bg down with diet alone.  I
don't know why.  Even with my bg well controlled, eating starch or sugar
guarantees that I'll feel it in my feet even if I keep my numbers low
with acarbose or portion control (wheat always spikes me very high).
Your triggers may differ.

I've found alpha lipoic acid, time released, 300mg twice per day to be
very effective in reversing PNs, and there's a lot of good peer reviewed
science proving that it does so.

Susan
Cheri - 14 Dec 2006 20:29 GMT
I've found that to be true as well.

--
Cheri

Susan wrote in message

<4udhdbF17grguU1@mid.individual.net>...
>I've found alpha lipoic acid, time released, 300mg twice per day to be
>very effective in reversing PNs, and there's a lot of good peer reviewed
>science proving that it does so.
>
>Susan
oldal4865 - 14 Dec 2006 18:08 GMT
Jan wrote in message
<1166115271.501842.33200@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>...
>Hi all.   I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot
>every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep.  I just figured
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>it is getting worse.
>Jan

 No personal experience to relate but others in the diabetes newsgroups
have reported an increase in intensity during attempts to normalize their
sugars.    It may be part of a healing or recovery process.    In general,
the most effective way of dealing with neuropathy is to normalize your blood
sugars.   There are additional techniques,  but the common thread in our
posters' reports is that the blood sugars have to be controlled first.

We have had posters report good luck with alpha-lipoic acid and evening
primrose oil to combat neuropathy,  e.g.

Dave Stampe, Ph.D., former Professor of Electrical Engineering at Univ. of
Toronto,  had good results with Evening Primrose Oil for numbness due to
neuropathy. He also used alpha Lipoic Acid for the same problem.

A simple summary of his experiences:

". . . .The best way to reverse neuropathy is to get very good BG control.
This will help you in lots of other ways, of course.

Since good control can take years to affect neuropathy, you can try some
faster treatments. The one that worked for me was evening primrose oil,
available in capsules at some drugstores and most health food stores. I'd
recommend starting with 2000 mg at breakfast and supper. You should notice
some effects in a week or two. After a month or two, you can reduce the dose
by half if you are getting too many side effects.

EPO worked well for me and is reasonably cheap and safe, so it's certainly
worth a try. Alpha-lipoic acid is another treatment that some recommend for
neuropathy, but it's a lot more expensive and can cause stomach cramps. I'm
experimenting with it right now . . . I was taking 900 mg/day,  alpha lipoic
acid, near the maximum dose. It did have  positive effect on neuropathy. . .
."

Here are some of his posts:

http://tinyurl.com/7jy6c

http://tinyurl.com/8g45c

http://tinyurl.com/a66nx

http://tinyurl.com/83qv9

http://tinyurl.com/byfg2

http://tinyurl.com/bkcs6

http://tinyurl.com/bovay

Regards
 Old Al
Chris Malcolm - 14 Dec 2006 21:37 GMT
> Jan wrote in message
> <1166115271.501842.33200@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>...

>>Hi all.   I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot
>>every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep.  I just figured
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>it is getting worse.
>>Jan

>   No personal experience to relate but others in the diabetes newsgroups
> have reported an increase in intensity during attempts to normalize their
> sugars.    It may be part of a healing or recovery process.

It's certainly a well-documented part of the healing process when
nerves have been severed in a physical injury, such as a knife
cut. Areas of complete absence of perception move through various
phases of itching and tingling, weird sensitivities, sometimes very
annoying, sometimes painful as the nerves grow back and recover,
before recovering to the state of normal perception. Sometimes the
area of pain or itch or tingling is a fringe area in between the area
of complete numbness and normal perception, and as healing progresses
these areas slowly contract like a drying puddle.

In the case of my recovering diabetic neuropathy, it felt very similar
to recoveries I've had from nerves damaged by physical injury.

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Chris Malcolm        cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk              DoD #205
IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Anil - 14 Dec 2006 21:15 GMT
> Hi all.   I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot
> every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep.  I just figured
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> it is getting worse.
> Jan

Jan,

The term you are looking for is "Peripheral neuropathy" or PN for
short. While OldAl has indeed given you good set of references, here is
one more that is paid for with our tax $$$ :-).
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/peripheralneuropathy/detail_peripheralneuropa
thy.htm

It pretty much covers the subject to make it quite scary!

Here is additional one authored by an endocrinologist. Its more for a
lay person and you may graduate out of it soon once you get the hang of
how to grab more knowledge.
http://www.diabetesindia.com/diabetes/feet_long_time.htm

I suffered from PN for at least a year before I was diagnosed as a T2.
Mostly it was my fault as I kept feeling that lack of exercise was
giving me funky feeling. Anyway by the time I was diagnosed (June, 05)
I was miserable.  (The pictures and description on this page accurately
reflects my situation. :
http://www.diabetesindia.com/diabetes/dont_lose_nerves1.htm)

Well that was how I got initiated. Fast forward today. I have pretty
much gotten over PN now. I still have to take extreme care of my feet
to make sure I never go bare feet even at home. I still have heighten
sensation. But I am far more functional and pretty much can ignore PN
related issues.

So how long before I was able to feel comfortable?
I would say at least 3-4 months AFTER I reached my A1c of 5.2.

So what worked?
Three things.
 1 - Exercise (At least 1 hr a day)
 2 - Tight BG control that means staying below 140 almost all the
time.
 3 - Metformin (2x500Mg) and  one tablet of Felcita-OD a day (ref:
http://tinyurl.com/yekbuc)

When I asked doctors about my problem almost every one I talked to ( I
do have a few Dr friends :-)) said bringing your BG under control is
your best bet to address PN.

On upside I should say that the motivation given by PN to stay the
course has been working its magic even today.

PN went in total remission when I started walking 2 hrs a day. Now I
walk every day almost consistently covering roughly 6 miles every time.
It has worked wonders on over all health. 20 months after dxed most
days I wake up with BGs in 80-90 range. At least in my case I can say
exercise combined with rigorous diet has given me good quality of life.
I only hope this continues for a long time.  I must also add that the
change in lifestyle has brought down my cholesterol numbers as well as
my weight (BMI <23).

So have patience. It may take a while before you get relief but you
should get it once you have brought your BGs in control. As always
getting a team of doctors (Endo, GP and an eye doctor at the very
least) will be your best advice counselors. The more you have the
knowledge the higher is the care you may get! This is where we folks
here come in!

Hope this helps.

Wishing your best of health!

Anil
 
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