Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / December 2006
Tingling Feet Question
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Jan - 14 Dec 2006 16:54 GMT Hi all. I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep. I just figured I was sitting wrong etc. Now after starting to read Gretchen's book that it is a sympton of Neuro.... (cant remember how to spell it. :) ) Anyway, this week, since i have doubled my dose of Metformin to 1000mg twice a day, it is happening every evening in both feet and going up my leg. I thought I remember somewhere in her book that she said if you are having this problem in the evening it could be from a spike in your BG 12 hours prior. I cannot find that section in the book now that i need to re-read. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Is it normal to have an increase in this when you are initially getting your BG level down? I just find it odd that now I am on meds, watching what I eat, it is getting worse. Jan
ray - 14 Dec 2006 17:49 GMT > Hi all. I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot > every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep. I just figured [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > it is getting worse. > Jan You might try alpha-lipoic acid and B12 together with folic acid. I have had a similar problem and that seems to help a bit. I still have a bit of a tingle in my left heel whenever BG is over about 120.
How has your BG level been?
Jan - 14 Dec 2006 17:55 GMT I dont know. I dont have a meter yet and do not get it until MOnday. I have an appt. with the Dietician next week as well. Dr. said just to watch startches. (Very generic if you ask me). That would mean i could eat all the candy and pop I wanted. Is it normal to have symptoms increase while you are getting your levels down?
> > Hi all. I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot > > every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep. I just figured [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > How has your BG level been? Susan - 14 Dec 2006 17:59 GMT > I dont know. I dont have a meter yet and do not get it until MOnday. > I have an appt. with the Dietician next week as well. Dr. said just to > watch startches. (Very generic if you ask me). That would mean i could > eat all the candy and pop I wanted. Is it normal to have symptoms > increase while you are getting your levels down? Folks've reported that, too, if there was numbness before. When the nerves begin to regenerate, some folks experience the return of sensation as pain or discomfort. No one here can tell you which you're having, though, and without a meter, you don't know what level may trigger them.
My own experience may differ from yours, but I found that it got consistently worse the entire time I was on metformin, but that was during a time that I was also severely adrenally suppressed, too, so it may not be applicable.
Susan
ray - 14 Dec 2006 20:26 GMT > I dont know. I dont have a meter yet and do not get it until MOnday. > I have an appt. with the Dietician next week as well. Dr. said just to > watch startches. (Very generic if you ask me). That would mean i could > eat all the candy and pop I wanted. Is it normal to have symptoms > increase while you are getting your levels down? These are my own opinions, and I'm no doc.
IMHO - docs who tell you to 'watch the starches' or similar idiocy should at least be barred from practicing - better they should be drawn and quartered - they will kill you. What you need to do, if you don't want to die prematurely and suffer all the while, is - radically modify your diet - restrict carb intake as much as feasible, and increase exercise - that's the only way you're going to get your BG down - and you should certainly have a meter and be testing regularly when you go on medication - otherwise how will you tell what it's doing?
>> > Hi all. I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot >> > every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep. I just figured [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >> How has your BG level been? Cheri - 14 Dec 2006 20:58 GMT As another non-doctor, I share your opinion of these types of real doctors. :-) -- Cheri
ray wrote in message ...
>These are my own opinions, and I'm no doc. > >IMHO - docs who tell you to 'watch the starches' or similar idiocy should >at least be barred from practicing - better they should be drawn and >quartered - they will kill you. Nicky - 14 Dec 2006 22:29 GMT >I dont know. I dont have a meter yet and do not get it until MOnday. > I have an appt. with the Dietician next week as well. Dr. said just to > watch startches. (Very generic if you ask me). That would mean i could > eat all the candy and pop I wanted. Is it normal to have symptoms > increase while you are getting your levels down? Yes. (Not that you're sure that's happening, without a meter - you're going to have some surprises when it shows up.) It can be a sign of healing - when my neuropathy was going away, I used to be able to tell when my bg was going up past a given number, because it hurt like hell above that then went numb and tingly at a higher number still. At one time, I had excruciating pains when I hit a massive 120 - that was a very unpleasant few weeks. Now I have normal sensitivity in both feet - this time last year, I had a big patch on each foot that was permanently numb, I drew round the patch in marker pen and took a photo last Boxing Day : )
Nicky.
 Signature A1c 10.5/5.5/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 100ug Thyroxine 95/72/72Kg
Julie Bove - 16 Dec 2006 20:26 GMT > I dont know. I dont have a meter yet and do not get it until MOnday. > I have an appt. with the Dietician next week as well. Dr. said just to > watch startches. (Very generic if you ask me). That would mean i could > eat all the candy and pop I wanted. Is it normal to have symptoms > increase while you are getting your levels down? If your nerves are regenerating, then the pain can increase. Just a thought though... Are you eating fruit? Fruit is very high in carbs.
 Signature See my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm
Susan - 14 Dec 2006 17:53 GMT > Hi all. I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot > every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep. I just figured [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > it is getting worse. > Jan Jan, when I was on metformin, I had more frequent tingling/stinging in my feet at night than I have since, keeping bg down with diet alone. I don't know why. Even with my bg well controlled, eating starch or sugar guarantees that I'll feel it in my feet even if I keep my numbers low with acarbose or portion control (wheat always spikes me very high). Your triggers may differ.
I've found alpha lipoic acid, time released, 300mg twice per day to be very effective in reversing PNs, and there's a lot of good peer reviewed science proving that it does so.
Susan
Cheri - 14 Dec 2006 20:29 GMT I've found that to be true as well.
-- Cheri
Susan wrote in message
<4udhdbF17grguU1@mid.individual.net>...
>I've found alpha lipoic acid, time released, 300mg twice per day to be >very effective in reversing PNs, and there's a lot of good peer reviewed >science proving that it does so. > >Susan oldal4865 - 14 Dec 2006 18:08 GMT Jan wrote in message <1166115271.501842.33200@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>...
>Hi all. I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot >every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep. I just figured [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >it is getting worse. >Jan No personal experience to relate but others in the diabetes newsgroups have reported an increase in intensity during attempts to normalize their sugars. It may be part of a healing or recovery process. In general, the most effective way of dealing with neuropathy is to normalize your blood sugars. There are additional techniques, but the common thread in our posters' reports is that the blood sugars have to be controlled first.
We have had posters report good luck with alpha-lipoic acid and evening primrose oil to combat neuropathy, e.g.
Dave Stampe, Ph.D., former Professor of Electrical Engineering at Univ. of Toronto, had good results with Evening Primrose Oil for numbness due to neuropathy. He also used alpha Lipoic Acid for the same problem.
A simple summary of his experiences:
". . . .The best way to reverse neuropathy is to get very good BG control. This will help you in lots of other ways, of course.
Since good control can take years to affect neuropathy, you can try some faster treatments. The one that worked for me was evening primrose oil, available in capsules at some drugstores and most health food stores. I'd recommend starting with 2000 mg at breakfast and supper. You should notice some effects in a week or two. After a month or two, you can reduce the dose by half if you are getting too many side effects.
EPO worked well for me and is reasonably cheap and safe, so it's certainly worth a try. Alpha-lipoic acid is another treatment that some recommend for neuropathy, but it's a lot more expensive and can cause stomach cramps. I'm experimenting with it right now . . . I was taking 900 mg/day, alpha lipoic acid, near the maximum dose. It did have positive effect on neuropathy. . . ."
Here are some of his posts:
http://tinyurl.com/7jy6c
http://tinyurl.com/8g45c
http://tinyurl.com/a66nx
http://tinyurl.com/83qv9
http://tinyurl.com/byfg2
http://tinyurl.com/bkcs6
http://tinyurl.com/bovay
Regards Old Al
Chris Malcolm - 14 Dec 2006 21:37 GMT > Jan wrote in message > <1166115271.501842.33200@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>...
>>Hi all. I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot >>every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep. I just figured [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>it is getting worse. >>Jan
> No personal experience to relate but others in the diabetes newsgroups > have reported an increase in intensity during attempts to normalize their > sugars. It may be part of a healing or recovery process. It's certainly a well-documented part of the healing process when nerves have been severed in a physical injury, such as a knife cut. Areas of complete absence of perception move through various phases of itching and tingling, weird sensitivities, sometimes very annoying, sometimes painful as the nerves grow back and recover, before recovering to the state of normal perception. Sometimes the area of pain or itch or tingling is a fringe area in between the area of complete numbness and normal perception, and as healing progresses these areas slowly contract like a drying puddle.
In the case of my recovering diabetic neuropathy, it felt very similar to recoveries I've had from nerves damaged by physical injury.
 Signature Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Anil - 14 Dec 2006 21:15 GMT > Hi all. I was just diagnosed 2 weeks ago. Prior to that my left foot > every once in a while would tingle, like it was asleep. I just figured [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > it is getting worse. > Jan Jan,
The term you are looking for is "Peripheral neuropathy" or PN for short. While OldAl has indeed given you good set of references, here is one more that is paid for with our tax $$$ :-). http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/peripheralneuropathy/detail_peripheralneuropa thy.htm It pretty much covers the subject to make it quite scary!
Here is additional one authored by an endocrinologist. Its more for a lay person and you may graduate out of it soon once you get the hang of how to grab more knowledge. http://www.diabetesindia.com/diabetes/feet_long_time.htm
I suffered from PN for at least a year before I was diagnosed as a T2. Mostly it was my fault as I kept feeling that lack of exercise was giving me funky feeling. Anyway by the time I was diagnosed (June, 05) I was miserable. (The pictures and description on this page accurately reflects my situation. : http://www.diabetesindia.com/diabetes/dont_lose_nerves1.htm)
Well that was how I got initiated. Fast forward today. I have pretty much gotten over PN now. I still have to take extreme care of my feet to make sure I never go bare feet even at home. I still have heighten sensation. But I am far more functional and pretty much can ignore PN related issues.
So how long before I was able to feel comfortable? I would say at least 3-4 months AFTER I reached my A1c of 5.2.
So what worked? Three things. 1 - Exercise (At least 1 hr a day) 2 - Tight BG control that means staying below 140 almost all the time. 3 - Metformin (2x500Mg) and one tablet of Felcita-OD a day (ref: http://tinyurl.com/yekbuc)
When I asked doctors about my problem almost every one I talked to ( I do have a few Dr friends :-)) said bringing your BG under control is your best bet to address PN.
On upside I should say that the motivation given by PN to stay the course has been working its magic even today.
PN went in total remission when I started walking 2 hrs a day. Now I walk every day almost consistently covering roughly 6 miles every time. It has worked wonders on over all health. 20 months after dxed most days I wake up with BGs in 80-90 range. At least in my case I can say exercise combined with rigorous diet has given me good quality of life. I only hope this continues for a long time. I must also add that the change in lifestyle has brought down my cholesterol numbers as well as my weight (BMI <23).
So have patience. It may take a while before you get relief but you should get it once you have brought your BGs in control. As always getting a team of doctors (Endo, GP and an eye doctor at the very least) will be your best advice counselors. The more you have the knowledge the higher is the care you may get! This is where we folks here come in!
Hope this helps.
Wishing your best of health!
Anil
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