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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / December 2006Newby - How Long Before Complications?
Hello everyone, I was diagnosed with type 2 one year ago. I have good control of my diabetes and plan to always stay the course of good glucose management. I currently take 500 mg of metformin twice per day in addition to blood pressure meds. I still live in fear of those dreaded diabetes complications although I have none. How long does a person have diabetes before those complications develop? My doc even looks at me funny at times because I tell him I am worried about them developing. He tries to ease my mind since I am well controlled but its not him with the disease! Just curious what your experiences have been over the years. Bryan > Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Bryan Some already have complications at diagnosis and some never get them, even after 50 years or more. One thing that most experts believes is that tight control will minimize your chances of complications. > Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > have none. How long does a person have diabetes before those > complications develop? They don't inevitably develop. If you keep your bg tightly controlled with diet and exercise and metformin, you could die of old age without complications. In addition, some things are reversible. I had severe peripheral neuropathies years before I was diagnosed (I've still never had DM range fbg, only post meal) and got rid of the pain with diet, and the residual numbness with high dose, time released alpha lipoic acid. My doc even looks at me funny at times because I > tell him I am worried about them developing. He tries to ease my mind > since I am well controlled but its not him with the disease! > > Just curious what your experiences have been over the years. Bryan, worrying is bad for your health. Be positive. You're very motivated to control your diabetes, and the studied/reported complication rates are based upon those with not very tight control. Complications are not inevitable. Susan Funny you say that. My doctor tells me that I would be amazed how wreckless people are with their diabetes, and those folks don't even care. I am completely opposite, he has even just grinned at me and chuckled before. I have been curious about those complication stats. Bryan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Susan > Funny you say that. My doctor tells me that I would be amazed how > wreckless people are with their diabetes, and those folks don't even > care. I am completely opposite, he has even just grinned at me and > chuckled before. I have been curious about those complication stats. Bryan, motivation is key to learning how to best manage DM. In many of the studies, there were folks defined as having good control based upon the standards of the day, which are now lower, but still set too high to avoid complications. Staying below 140 post meal is a very good goal for those hellbent on avoiding complications. That's a critical level for avoiding cellular damage. If you're not there yet, not to worry; this is a marathon, not a sprint. Susan : x-no-archive: yes : > I still live in fear of those dreaded diabetes complications although I : > have none. How long does a person have diabetes before those : > complications develop? : They don't inevitably develop. If you keep your bg tightly controlled : with diet and exercise and metformin, you could die of old age without : complications. In addition, some things are reversible. I had severe : peripheral neuropathies years before I was diagnosed (I've still never : had DM range fbg, only post meal) and got rid of the pain with diet, and : the residual numbness with high dose, time released alpha lipoic acid. : My doc even looks at me funny at times because I : > tell him I am worried about them developing. He tries to ease my mind : > since I am well controlled but its not him with the disease! : > : > Just curious what your experiences have been over the years. : Bryan, worrying is bad for your health. Be positive. You're very : motivated to control your diabetes, and the studied/reported : complication rates are based upon those with not very tight control. : Complications are not inevitable. : Susan To follow up Susan's comments on worrying. i sometimes think of my approach to diabetes as a kind of game with the disease. I try to find ways to fool it by using cagey recipes that give me tasty food without the heavy carbs of teh regular recipe and, as a result, I enjoy boht the adventure of cooking the food and then eating it and no complicatins or spike!! Ha Ha diabetes:-) I am 20 years with this disease and on metformin 1000mgs twice a day and 1 mg Amaryl before bed to help with the FBGs. Unfortunaely, little exercise what with the sciatica. On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:59:56 -0800, pebbleman3 wrote: > Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > tell him I am worried about them developing. He tries to ease my mind > since I am well controlled but its not him with the disease! If you believe Dr. Bernstein ("Diabetes Solution") they don't ever have to appear. > Just curious what your experiences have been over the years. > > Bryan > On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:59:56 -0800, pebbleman3 wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > If you believe Dr. Bernstein ("Diabetes Solution") they don't ever have to > appear. That's a very positive attitude but not sure how realistic it is. For example even the most intensely controlled in the DCCT study had: 1. A risk of complications that was still much greater than non-diabetics 2. A far far greater risk of extreme hypos than those who were less intensely controlled And some of the most intensive control techniques (e.g. pumps) are associated with a real increased risk of DKA. I mean, it's good to push tight control and strive for it, but the attempt at tight control in itself has risks. Personally I'm at 25 years with no complications but two ER trips for hypos. Tim. On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 04:50:52 -0800, shoppa wrote: >> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:59:56 -0800, pebbleman3 wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > 1. A risk of complications that was still much greater than > non-diabetics Dr. B. has been type 1 for 60 years and claims he has no complications. > 2. A far far greater risk of extreme hypos than those who were less > intensely controlled He also claims to have conquered that - law of small numbers. > And some of the most intensive control techniques (e.g. pumps) are > associated with a real increased risk of DKA. > > I mean, it's good to push tight control and strive for it, but the > attempt at tight control in itself has risks. I think that depends a little on how you do it. It's not easy. > Personally I'm at 25 years with no complications but two ER trips for > hypos. > > Tim. Have you read Dr. B.'s book? It might help you. One study suggests about 12 years for T1 s ... "Despite modern insulin treatment, >50% of patients with childhood-onset type 1 diabetes developed detectable diabetes complications after 12 years of diabetes." http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/27/4/955 AS far as T2s are concerned everyone agrees that good control lowers the RISK of complications but does not negate it entirely ..And the Jury is still out on whether good control can reduce the risk of macrovascular complications ... "Microvascular complications (neuropathy, retinopathy, nephropathy) can be delayed by strict glycemic control. Of note, four years after the DCCT, the intensive control group still had reduced onset and progression of nephropathy and retinopathy despite convergence of their glycosylated hemoglobins with those of the conventional group. The UKPDS showed that for every 1% lowering in HbA1c, microvascular complications are lowered by 35%. Macrovascular complications (at least 3-fold risk; atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, stroke, peripheral vascular disease) have not been shown definitively to benefit from good glycemic control. Diabetes is the fourth leading cause of death by disease; at least 70% of these deaths are caused by cardiovascular disease (silent ischemia is common). T2 DM annually accounts for 200,000 deaths, 400,000 myocardial infarctions, and 130,000 strokes." http://www.endocrinology.med.ucla.edu/diabetes.htm >I was diagnosed with type 2 one year ago. I have good control of my >diabetes and plan to always stay the course of good glucose management. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Just curious what your experiences have been over the years. One of the differences between Type 1 and Type 2 is the insidious nature of the onset of Type 2. With Type 1, the onset is usually sudden and dramatic. With Type 2, the diabetes could have been "silently" developing for years, and during those years the complications could have been developing as well. Good glycemic control has been shown to lessen the chances of all kinds of complications, but this is just a statistical correlation. There's no guarantee that even with the tightest control, you won't develop complications -- and on the other hand, some people with terrible control never get complications. Just plain luck has a lot to do with it. Clearly, maintaining tight control will improve your odds. Have regular examinations so that complications, if they occur, can be treated early and effectively. This includes dilated-eye checkups of the retina, filament tests of the feet for signs of neuropathy, and microalbumin tests for kidney damage. Beyond that, there's no use in worrying about it. In fact, too much worry is disadvantageous because it raises your stress level and makes control more difficult. > >I was diagnosed with type 2 one year ago. I have good control of my > >diabetes and plan to always stay the course of good glucose management. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > terrible control never get complications. Just plain luck has a lot to > do with it. One has to remember that "complications" due to diabetes are also conditions that occur outside diabetes. Diabetes increases your chance of a stroke or other heart conditions, but people who _do_not_ have diabetes do have strokes. > Clearly, maintaining tight control will improve your odds. Have > regular examinations so that complications, if they occur, can be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > worrying about it. In fact, too much worry is disadvantageous because > it raises your stress level and makes control more difficult. ======= Tecknomage ======= San Diego, CA The Mage Soapbox http://magesoapbox.blogspot.com/ > I still live in fear of those dreaded diabetes complications although I > have none. How long does a person have diabetes before those > complications develop? I had neuropathy at diagnosis. Good control has reversed that, and I'm now free of it. I've only been dx'd 2 1/2 years, but I borderlined a GTT 35 years ago. I intend to stay complication-free forever... Nicky.  SignatureA1c 10.5/5.5/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 100ug Thyroxine 95/72/72Kg > Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Just curious what your experiences have been over the years. In my case it was the complications of undiagnosed diabetes that brought me to the Dr. I know I am not alone here. :( SignatureSee my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm Me too Julie. :-( -- Cheri Julie Bove wrote in message ... >In my case it was the complications of undiagnosed diabetes that brought me >to the Dr. I know I am not alone here. :( > Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Bryan Those who lose the visceral adipose tissue (VAT) that causes the type 2 diabetes do not develop diabetic complications: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/overweight.asp Those who choose to reverently fear GOD, Creator of heaven and earth, no longer dread anything (especially not diabetes) that is of this world: http://MabletonGA.OurLittle.net/DreadNought May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our diabetes, depression, anxiety or panic so that we can love our neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear Bryan whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD blagged: > Those who lose the visceral adipose tissue (VAT) that causes the type 2 > diabetes do not develop diabetic complications: > > http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/overweight.asp <snip rest of troll droppings> "The key to possibly curing your type-2 diabetes is losing the visceral adipose tissue (VAT):" This poster is not current with recent diabetes literature, willfully distorts information for an agenda driven goal, ignores any research in contridiction of personal opinion, can be ignored without fear because the truth is not in the source. Losing belly fat is important, but equally so are what one eats and exercise in diabetes treatment. There is currently no cure for diabetes and using all three of the above one can reverse many symptoms of it however. > "The key to possibly curing your type-2 diabetes is losing the visceral > adipose tissue (VAT):" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > and using all three of the above one can reverse many symptoms of it > however. So, if he is a doctor, he's guilty of gross misconduct, and if he isn't a doctor, he's guilty of fraud. Thank you. In alt.support.diabetes Pastor Kutchie <user13@heathens.org.uk> wrote: >> "The key to possibly curing your type-2 diabetes is losing the visceral >> adipose tissue (VAT):" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> and using all three of the above one can reverse many symptoms of it >> however. > So, if he is a doctor, he's guilty of gross misconduct, and if he isn't > a doctor, he's guilty of fraud. Doctors aren't stamped out with cookie cutters. It's not necessarily either gross misconduct or fraud for a doctor to hold an eccentric opinion. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] It seems to me I heard somewhere that Chris Malcolm wrote in article <4ugs1jF18624qU1@mid.individual.net>: >In alt.support.diabetes Pastor Kutchie <user13@heathens.org.uk> wrote: >>> "The key to possibly curing your type-2 diabetes is losing the visceral >>> adipose tissue (VAT):" >>> This poster is not current with recent diabetes literature, willfully >>> distorts information for an agenda driven goal, ignores any research in >>> contridiction of personal opinion, can be ignored without fear because >>> the truth is not in the source. >>> Losing belly fat is important, but equally so are what one eats and >>> exercise in diabetes treatment. There is currently no cure for diabetes >>> and using all three of the above one can reverse many symptoms of it >>> however. >> So, if he is a doctor, he's guilty of gross misconduct, and if he isn't >> a doctor, he's guilty of fraud. >Doctors aren't stamped out with cookie cutters. It's not necessarily >either gross misconduct or fraud for a doctor to hold an eccentric >opinion. True enough, but isn't it a little scary for a doctor to prefer religious to scientific approaches to diagnosis and healing? SignatureDon Kirkman > Chris Malcolm wrote in article: > > Tragic demon Kutchie wrote: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >>> "The key to possibly curing your type-2 diabetes is losing the visceral > >>> adipose tissue (VAT):" http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/overweight.asp > >>> This poster is not current with recent diabetes literature, willfully > >>> distorts information for an agenda driven goal, ignores any research in [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > True enough, but isn't it a little scary for a doctor to prefer > religious to scientific approaches to diagnosis and healing? Understanding the pathophysiology of visceral adipose tissue (VAT) does not arise from religion. Nor does the healing come from religion. Indeed, it remains my choice to not be religious. Christianity is a relationship with the risen Christ Jesus and not a religion. May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our diabetes, depression, anxiety, and panic so that we can love our neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear neighbor Don whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love Regarding only belly fat in diabetes treatment and excluding nutrition and exercise and the role of religion in forming medical opinion, Mr. chung opines: "Understanding the pathophysiology of visceral adipose tissue (VAT) does not arise from religion." You push to the exclusion of valid science all but the loss of weight, specifically belly fat - vat, in diabetes treatment. It is a distortion by which you can then push the wholly unscientific "two pound diet" that has been now completely discredited. The diet ignores calorie amount and nutritional content and exercise is excluded completely. The diet was tied to an account of a source of food in the bible said to be measured with a two pound unit of weight. this has also now been completely discredited as untrue. While irrelevant to medical treatment the unit of measure was one of volume not weight. Regardless of calorie or nutritional content two pounds is exactly what all people need to have normal body weight. The exact calories and nutrition will by supernatural intervention fit each person. You know all of this because of a direct communication with a supernatural force who informs you of such matters. Leading us once more to conclude that you have not kept up with current diabetes literature, as outlined above there is willful distortion in pursuit of a non-scientific agenda driven goal, references to valid science to the contrary concerning the above outline is ignored, all of which leaves anyone to safely and with ease of mind completely ignore the source because the truth is not in it. In alt.support.diabetes Don Kirkman <donsno2@wavecable.com> wrote: > It seems to me I heard somewhere that Chris Malcolm wrote in article > <4ugs1jF18624qU1@mid.individual.net>: >>In alt.support.diabetes Pastor Kutchie <user13@heathens.org.uk> wrote: >>>> "The key to possibly curing your type-2 diabetes is losing the visceral >>>> adipose tissue (VAT):" >>>> This poster is not current with recent diabetes literature, willfully >>>> distorts information for an agenda driven goal, ignores any research in >>>> contridiction of personal opinion, can be ignored without fear because >>>> the truth is not in the source. >>>> Losing belly fat is important, but equally so are what one eats and >>>> exercise in diabetes treatment. There is currently no cure for diabetes >>>> and using all three of the above one can reverse many symptoms of it >>>> however. >>> So, if he is a doctor, he's guilty of gross misconduct, and if he isn't >>> a doctor, he's guilty of fraud. >>Doctors aren't stamped out with cookie cutters. It's not necessarily >>either gross misconduct or fraud for a doctor to hold an eccentric >>opinion. > True enough, but isn't it a little scary for a doctor to prefer > religious to scientific approaches to diagnosis and healing? It's scary if you can't judge opinions and instead have to resort to judging the personality of the opinion holder, but that's always been a dangerous and unreliable method of judging opinions. But I shouldn't really be intruding in a Chung-baiting thread, them being such a devoted and enthusiastic celebration of ad hominem arguments and scientific ignorance by people with no better way of feeling important than baiting a doctor who suffers from religious convictions. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] I stay out of these debates altogether. I just read what Dr. Chung has to offer and I move on. I have no medical degrees so I cannot say he is wrong. Since the information is on the Internet - I am skeptical anyhow. What good does it do to engage the debates? I think Dr. Chung sits laughing at the responses he gets from all of the "dear neighbors" he inflames. I sit and chuckle at the posts because people are doing just what Dr. Chung wants and some of the replies are just plain funny. Bryan > >>Doctors aren't stamped out with cookie cutters. It's not necessarily > >>either gross misconduct or fraud for a doctor to hold an eccentric [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK > [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] > In alt.support.diabetes Don Kirkman <donsno2@wavecable.com> wrote: >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Chris Malcolm wrote in article [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > judging the personality of the opinion holder, but that's always been > a dangerous and unreliable method of judging opinions. Nice trim job, Chris. And very much your crippled M.O. You deleted all the examples of judging the opinion so you could - in your typically oily, splendidly sleazy way - make this duplicitous/mendacious/deceptive point. Your smugness is only matched by your willingness to be shallowly, blatantly, malodorously dishonest. Have a wonderful Christmas. Pastorio In alt.support.diabetes "Bob (this one)" <Bob@nospam.com> wrote: >> In alt.support.diabetes Don Kirkman <donsno2@wavecable.com> wrote: >>> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Chris Malcolm wrote in article [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> judging the personality of the opinion holder, but that's always been >> a dangerous and unreliable method of judging opinions. > Nice trim job, Chris. And very much your crippled M.O. You > deleted all the examples of judging the opinion so you could > - in your typically oily, splendidly sleazy way - make this > duplicitous/mendacious/deceptive point. > Your smugness is only matched by your willingness to be > shallowly, blatantly, malodorously dishonest. As usual Pastry Bob confuses his dislike of me with the plainly obvious facts of the matter: I trimmed nothing from the posting I replied to; it was quoted in its entirety. But to realise that Pastry Bob would have had to hold his itching fingers off the keyboard for long enough to do some reading. Writing is so much more fun! Thank the Lord for Andrew Chung eh? A poster whose postings you never even have to read before launching into yet another excitingly eloquent variation on the theme of what has been your favourite diatribble for how many years now? Have a Meretricious and A Happy New Year, Bob :-) SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] > In alt.support.diabetes "Bob (this one)" <Bob@nospam.com> wrote: >>> In alt.support.diabetes Don Kirkman <donsno2@wavecable.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > obvious facts of the matter: I trimmed nothing from the posting I > replied to; it was quoted in its entirety. You're right. I apologize. You didn't cut anything off, you oiled your way past it when it was posted. Here's what Don Kirkman posted, below, in response to Chung. It utterly destroys any of the labored, fake substance you've tried to exude in your usual unctuous way. Bite this, Chris. It weighs less than 2 pounds. Chung's words have those "Divine Arrows of Charlatanry" [> >] pointing to them. ----------------------- But claiming that a Christian doctor is per se preferable to a better trained more experienced non-believer does arise from religion, not from science. BTW, from other remarks in this thread some seem to believe you yourself do not accurately understand the pathophysiology of visceral adipose tissue. The idea that the Bible teaches an ideal diet for all mankind arises from religion, not from science. The belief that the theory of evolution has not been supported by scientific evidence arises from religion, not from science. The concept that the physical heart and the metaphorical heart can be discussed interchangeably arises from religion, not from science. The belief that God wanted 4,000 people killed because Islamic radicals were angry at the United States arises from religion, not from science. The conceit that you have special knowledge of Christianity unknown to others arises from religion, not from science. The belief that there was a literal Garden of Eden some 6,000 years ago, followed shortly after by a world-wide flood, arises from religion, not from science. > >Nor does the healing come from religion. The belief that the healing comes from God, with or without medical intervention, arises from religion, not from science. > >Indeed, it remains my choice to not be religious. And you succeed very well in not being religious. > >Christianity is a relationship with the risen Christ Jesus and not a > >religion. They are not exclusive categories; in fact they have always been considered to be different aspects of a single phenomenon. > >May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our > >diabetes, depression, anxiety, and panic I'm sorry to read that you have depression, anxiety, and panic, but it doesn't surprise me. You have other problems as well, IMO. -- Don Kirkman --------------------------------- So your shabbily empty rant above is shown to be even emptier than usual. Guinness quality empty... World-class empty... > But to realise that Pastry Bob would have had to hold his itching > fingers off the keyboard for long enough to do some reading. Writing > is so much more fun! Thank the Lord for Andrew Chung eh? A poster > whose postings you never even have to read before launching into yet > another excitingly eloquent variation on the theme of what has been > your favourite diatribble for how many years now? You fuckwitted sycophant. You've been licking the hem of his undies ever since you lost your testes. No loss, based on what you've posted here. Big science guy who posits what others should do because he does it, you are. So you eat 2 pounds of food every day, do you? You say you do and have presented menus in the past that would gag a buzzard. Of course I dislike you. You're a fraud and a defender of Chung whose lunacies whoooosh right past you. Whose potential hazards to real people in real medical situations you seem comfortable with, accepting. It's pitiable that you've so degenerated that all of his tragic mental deterioration seems reasonable to you. That he's a person who should be accorded the respect that a useful human should get, one not a hazard to all around him. > Have a Meretricious and A Happy New Year, Bob :-) <LOL> Oh look, Skeletal Chris learned a new, big word, if not precisely how to use it. Fits right in with the way his crabbed mind already works. He can pander his insincere plaudits for Chung and it's a good thing. Not at all meretricious. Hee hee... Whooosh. No, seriously... Pastorio Your embarrassing yourself is an adverse reaction to the awesome power of intercessory prayers made by the brethren of LORD Jesus Christ to our heavenly Father lifting up those like you who have been convicted by the Holy Spirit: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts > > In alt.support.diabetes "Bob (this one)" <Bob@nospam.com> wrote: > >>> In alt.support.diabetes Don Kirkman <donsno2@wavecable.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 149 lines] > > Pastorio It seems to me I heard somewhere that Chris Malcolm wrote in article <4ui1j2F18eseaU2@mid.individual.net>: >In alt.support.diabetes Don Kirkman <donsno2@wavecable.com> wrote: >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Chris Malcolm wrote in article >> <4ugs1jF18624qU1@mid.individual.net>: >>>In alt.support.diabetes Pastor Kutchie <user13@heathens.org.uk> wrote: >>>> So, if he is a doctor, he's guilty of gross misconduct, and if he isn't >>>> a doctor, he's guilty of fraud. >>>Doctors aren't stamped out with cookie cutters. It's not necessarily >>>either gross misconduct or fraud for a doctor to hold an eccentric >>>opinion. >> True enough, but isn't it a little scary for a doctor to prefer >> religious to scientific approaches to diagnosis and healing? >It's scary if you can't judge opinions and instead have to resort to >judging the personality of the opinion holder, but that's always been >a dangerous and unreliable method of judging opinions. I can judge opinions rather well, but in what I wrote and you cut out I was judging beliefs the good doctor has set forth as truths over the past several years. The issue is not his opinions about religion and science but his assertions (strongly suggesting his practice of medicine would have the same priorities) about specific matters of medical science. >But I shouldn't really be intruding in a Chung-baiting thread, them >being such a devoted and enthusiastic celebration of ad hominem >arguments and scientific ignorance by people with no better way of >feeling important than baiting a doctor who suffers from religious >convictions. So you agree that he suffers from religious convictions. Perhaps some medical science - medication or therapy - could relieve his suffering and spare others the suffering he causes them. SignatureDon Kirkman type 1, 19 years, complication free (touch wood) and i don't plan on having any complications for at least another 20 years or more kate SignatureJoin us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. > Hello everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Bryan > Just curious what your experiences have been over the years. > > Bryan Hi Bryan, I have quiet a few data points all in my family :-). Most lasted 20-35 yrs after discovery. No one died before 70! The person with least control died at 80. My father at 75. Every one had complications last few years of their life except my father who had cardiac failure. I have an uncle who is going strong 30 yrs after dxed. He is almost 80 now. No complications, no meds! at 5'9" he is 130 lbs, skinny. walks (at least) 1 hr every day and swims 1 hr. Has been life long vegetarian and for last 2 years vegan after I shared with his my half baked internet knowledge :-). He was suffering from arthritis. He claims he has gotten over it since he stopped eating all dairy products. Needless to say he is my gold standard. I am certainly trying to mimic his success. I was dxed 20 months ago and so far seems to be in good control! I do walk almost every day 6 miles. I am 52. BMI 22.5. And yes I too wonder how long the honeymoon period lasts and exactly how many knobs I need to play with. Its been fun! I am sure enjoying the new and improved me. Am also aware of enough things that lay ahead to stay humble and enjoy every day to the hilt. Peace, Anil T2DM A1c 5.8, Met 2x500mg, no other med, dx 6/05 Eating plant based whole food diet Walking 6 miles/day, 100 miles/month Wow Anil, Great and helful post! I think from reading your post, I need to print that post out and make that 6 mile walk per day my gold standard. My doctor tells me I am doing well, and personally, I have never felt better. My diabetes was caught right away as I had a good blood reading in Feb 2005 and then bad blood reading in November 2005. He told me that it takes a long time for the dreaded complications to appear. Bryan > > Just curious what your experiences have been over the years. > > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Eating plant based whole food diet > Walking 6 miles/day, 100 miles/month <Snipped> > My doctor tells me I am doing well, and personally, I have never felt > better. My diabetes was caught right away as I had a good blood reading > in Feb 2005 and then bad blood reading in November 2005. He told me > that it takes a long time for the dreaded complications to appear. > > Bryan Bryan, The earlier you become aware of metabolic syndrome affecting your body the more effective you can be in halting its progress. While personally I was well north of borderline in 1996, the standard then of FBG > 140 allowed me to brush off the responsibility of taking the ownership of my health. Anyway the best part of your recognition is you are now taking the ownership. Fantastic. As much as walking has been looked down upon as serious exercise I personally feel its a best kept secret. You see no one can sell you any thing by pushing walking as an exercise. So who will push it? However there is plenty of literature backing its worthiness. Its best done if you have a partner with you I must say. I would also caution you to start slowly and ramp up. First month I was rarely able to go past 30 min limit. I also do Dand (cat stretch or Hindu Pushups Ref: http://tinyurl.com/uba98) and Baithak (hindu squats) (Ref: http://tinyurl.com/y5h6u9). These are great indoor exercises and if you google it you will see that they are used by martial arts trainers as part of basic warm up activity. Anyway my goal is to undertake an activity I can continue doing well into old age and yet is simple and needs no external instrument. The thee activities I have selected fit this goal nicely. I am very happy for you that you caught this at such an early stage now you should be all the more motivated to remain healthy for rest of your life. It will largely depend on how aggressively you pursue a lifestyle change. Good luck my friend. Go for it. Cheers, Anil Anil, What a pleasure to read your posts. I have more inspiration. I am pretty active with lifting and driving with my job. Early on, after I was positive the doc made a mistake, and I could not be a diabetic, I walked and walked to get the weight off and glucose numbers down, just to prove him wrong. I knew my doc was right because he has never made a mistake with me yet. I am truly blessed and fortunate that I am as healthy as I am. I wish I had paid more attention to my lifestyle the past few years though. I am going to start walking even more now. It gets cold here in Ohio and outdoor excercise is more of a challenge. Take care my friend! Bryan > <Snipped> > > My doctor tells me I am doing well, and personally, I have never felt [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Anil |
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