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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / October 2006

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How much exercise do you do?

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stryped@hotmail.com - 26 Oct 2006 14:02 GMT
How much exercise do you do? I dont have diabetes but my dad and
everyone in his family does. They are overweight too. I am 35. I have
gotten in good shape by running. I trained since May to run a 5k last
week. I did well. I am 175 lbs and 13.2% bodyfat.6 feet tall.

Anyway, race is over and dont have alot to run for. Thinking of joining
a gym now that weather is gettign colder and working out for 30 minutes
or so on my lunch hour.

I am stuggeling with what type of workout to make me look better but
also prevent diabetes. I am healthy after all the running, but people
(including wife) always comment about how skinny I look. I have done to
the weght lifting newsgroup and they basically said it is impossible to
gain muscle without gaining fat and it is impossible to both gain
muscle and lose bodyfat. You have to do one at a time.

So I am leaning toward liftin 3 days a week, swimming/running two days
. But I feel this is not enough cardio. Plus people told me I will not
be able to gain muscle with all that cardio. I am just so confused.
When I was training for the 5k I was up to running 4 miles 5 days a
week at the peak. (Although I think that was a liitle too much as I
messe dmy knee up).

Here is a picture of me if anyone is interested in how skinny I look.
http://www.picturehosting.org/gallery.php?u=stryped&g=test

Any advice is greatly appeciated!
Roger Zoul - 26 Oct 2006 14:20 GMT
Did you post here last week?

Frankly, I don't see the problem.  If you just keep doing what you're doing
& maintain your weight you should be fine.  I suggest you forget what others
say about you being skinny...they are probably overweight.  Adopt some
activities you enjoy - running, swimming, cycling, and combine them with a
sound weight training routine. And get this, you can train for strength, not
size. Work on increasing your strength at your current size rather than
thinking about gaining muscle / losing fat. if you're really at 13.2% bf,
then you're good.  Note that strength is not simply related to the size of
muscles, it has a great deal to do with the central nervous system too.

If you do that and combined with a diet devoid of refined/processed foods,
with healthy fats, you'll be just fine.

Cycling can be a good activity if running is bothering your needs. Swimming
is good too.

Why are you spending all this time fretting?  And if you feel like you wanna
do a lot of cardio, then do cardio (that's certainly better than sitting on
your butt).  I do suggest you mix in a little high intensity interval
training, as opposed to just straight cardio.  HIIT (google for it) will
definitely help you burn off fat and it's better for your heart than just
straight cardio. Straight cardio doesn't protect your heart against sudden
intense effort.

:: x-no-archive:yes
::
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
::
:: Any advice is greatly appeciated!
stryped@hotmail.com - 26 Oct 2006 22:32 GMT
I guess I want to gain muscle/lose bodyfat for looks too. Maybe get a
"Matthew McConohey" type body. (You can laugh now).

I cant see my abs even at 13.2% bf. I would like to reduce more but
also increase my upper body muscle so I dont look so scronny. But,
others have told me this is not possible.
> Did you post here last week?
>
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> ::
> :: Any advice is greatly appeciated!
Roger Zoul - 27 Oct 2006 00:33 GMT
:: x-no-archive:yes
::
:: I guess I want to gain muscle/lose bodyfat for looks too. Maybe get a
:: "Matthew McConohey" type body. (You can laugh now).

There's nothing wrong with that goal.  Simply be very focused in your
training for best results.  Split your year up into gaining phases followed
by losing phases.  The advantage here is that you set up profiles that favor
muscle gain during gaining phases and then ones that favor fat loss durng
losing phases.  This allows you to get the most out of time spent in each
phase.  If you have competing goals (gaining muscle / losing fat), then
you'll end up getting less than you might otherwise, which in a lot of cases
means you'll end up getting nothing. It's why you can see people going to
the gym month after month for years and yet see very little difference in
them over time.

Now, the problem with all of that is that most people simply don't have
enough discipline to follow any kind of rigid plan for very long.  One
basically needs to be anal when doing a muscle gain / fat loss routine to
end up with a very "cut" look.  Having a personal trainer and a cook can go
a long way in meeting these kinds of goals.  Most people cannot lose weight
on demand and they also cannot gain muscle on demand, as both take a very
anal type of mindset to achieve.

As far as gaining muscle is concerned, that's really easiest to do when
you're young - like in your teens or early 20s.  It's not impossible at 32
(or at any age) but it is a lot harder.

:: I cant see my abs even at 13.2% bf. I would like to reduce more but
:: also increase my upper body muscle so I dont look so scronny. But,
:: others have told me this is not possible.

Well, we can all wish for the perfect body.  Getting one is another matter.
A focus on health, strength, and enjoying your activties is probably more
important and, IMO, easier for most people to achieve.

:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Did you post here last week?
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
:::::
::::: Any advice is greatly appeciated!
Chris Malcolm - 27 Oct 2006 14:12 GMT
> :: x-no-archive:yes
> ::
> :: I guess I want to gain muscle/lose bodyfat for looks too. Maybe get a
> :: "Matthew McConohey" type body. (You can laugh now).

> There's nothing wrong with that goal.  Simply be very focused in your
> training for best results.  Split your year up into gaining phases followed
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> the gym month after month for years and yet see very little difference in
> them over time.

> Now, the problem with all of that is that most people simply don't have
> enough discipline to follow any kind of rigid plan for very long.  One
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> on demand and they also cannot gain muscle on demand, as both take a very
> anal type of mindset to achieve.

> As far as gaining muscle is concerned, that's really easiest to do when
> you're young - like in your teens or early 20s.  It's not impossible at 32
> (or at any age) but it is a lot harder.

In my sixties I haven't found any difficulty with increasing my
general fitness and strength. For example in terms of general fitness,
as measured by cycling speeds, I've got back to the general level of
fitness I had ten years ago. Nothing at all dramatic. In general terms
I've just shifted from being an old cyclist whom everyone overtakes to
an old cyclist who overtakes the slowest cyclists. In terms of maximum
strength my legs are about the same as they were then, and my arms are
probably 20% stronger.

However, I haven't increased the size of any of my muscles to any
visible degree or weighable degree. Not that I've tried. Going by my
strength and appearance in my early twenties, when I was at my best, I
can get a lot stronger than I am now without having to get any bigger,
although there's room for replacing a bit of fat with muscle.  I can't
see the point of muscles that are stronger than they need to be to
lift my own weight around without fatigue, or bigger than they need to
be for that strength.

Signature

Chris Malcolm        cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk              DoD #205
IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Will, T2 - 27 Oct 2006 14:35 GMT
>However, I haven't increased the size of any of my muscles to any
>visible degree or weighable degree. Not that I've tried. Going by my
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>lift my own weight around without fatigue, or bigger than they need to
>be for that strength.

Hi Chris,

You remind me of those who get into a fitness kick far beyond the
normal and reasonable tolerances of their bodies. To illustrate, once
when I was about 28, I became a fitness enthusiast.... I built up my
overall body strength to a ridiculous level, until one day, as I was
in the gym after having taught my classes for the afternoon at
Virginia Tech, I was doing a workout on the leg press.... and broke my
foot on over 1200 lbs...

The lesson for me was all that fitness was simply not worth it. It was
then that I decided to try to maintain only a reasonable and more
healthy level of strength.  Whether it be fitness, diet, or whatever,
we humans can and do get carried away with our enthusiasms of the
moment.

Will, T2
Chris Malcolm - 27 Oct 2006 15:51 GMT
>>However, I haven't increased the size of any of my muscles to any
>>visible degree or weighable degree. Not that I've tried. Going by my
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>lift my own weight around without fatigue, or bigger than they need to
>>be for that strength.

> Hi Chris,

> You remind me of those who get into a fitness kick far beyond the
> normal and reasonable tolerances of their bodies. To illustrate, once
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Virginia Tech, I was doing a workout on the leg press.... and broke my
> foot on over 1200 lbs...

I'm actually one of those idiots. A couple of years ago I decided to
devise by experiment a method of gaining arm strength at maximum rate
tailored to my exact muscles and metabolism. I ended up with doing
three maximum sets of pullups a day, spaced 8 hours apart, five days a
week, then two days rest. Every time I rested I added at least half a
pullup to my maximum. At 12 I was going to add weights to my ankles.
But at 8 my left elbow collapsed and it's still recovering :-(

What I failed to take into account is that tendons grow more slowly
than muscles, so you can damage tendons with high speed muscle
development. Especially if you're old. I'm doing one pullup a week and
very high reps (over 100) with very light weights just to stop
degenerating until it recovers. It is recovering, very slowly but
surely.

Signature

Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics,
JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Michelle - 28 Oct 2006 20:22 GMT
Reading about guys trying to leg press 1200 pounds reminds me of women who
all try to weigh 100 pounds.  ;-)  Most guys aren't Arnold Schwarzenegger
and most women are not Naomi Campbell.  (Or pick whomever you think meets
your ideal criteria.)  There's a lot to be said for being in harmony with
ones own body and doing your best to keep it healthy.
Signature

Michelle, T2
diet & exercise

>>However, I haven't increased the size of any of my muscles to any
>>visible degree or weighable degree. Not that I've tried. Going by my
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Will, T2
Trinkwasser - 28 Oct 2006 20:25 GMT
>>However, I haven't increased the size of any of my muscles to any
>>visible degree or weighable degree. Not that I've tried. Going by my
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>we humans can and do get carried away with our enthusiasms of the
>moment.

I always remember those cyclists with calves bigger than their thighs.
And why do they always wear Lycra?
Uncle Enrico - 26 Oct 2006 15:16 GMT
> x-no-archive:yes
> I am 175 lbs and 13.2% bodyfat.6 feet tall.
>
> I am healthy after all the running, but people
> (including wife) always comment about how skinny I look.

As you probably know, normal body fat percentages associated with no
increased risk for disease are generally 12 to 20% for men, and 16 to 25%
for women.

(Source: Guide to Wellness, Fitness and Nutrition: by Neil Wolkodoff Ph.D.)

People's perceptions of what is "skinny" are often distorted by their
overexposure to overweight and obese body types.

The reverse is often true for young women who try to look like runway
models.
oldal4865 - 26 Oct 2006 19:59 GMT
stryped@hotmail.com wrote in message
<1161867765.228445.317890@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
>x-no-archive:yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>Any advice is greatly appeciated!

   I do resistance training 3 days a week and aerobic exercise 5 days a
week.    I have no problem putting on and maintaining muscle.    Actually,
I am puzzled over that "will not be able to gain muscle with all that
Cardio. . ." stuff.

I recommend aerobic exercise classes to everyone.    You "buy into the
group" and show up,  even when you would rather sit home on your butt.
Then, during class,  you "keep up" and get that heart pumping because
everybody else is.

Umm. . .age 35 you say.    Note that aerobic exercise classes for folks in
your age group are populated with extremely good looking young ladies.    I
know this for a fact since I attend both the Old F*rt and the Young Folks
sessions.     (I won't tell your wife if you don't.)

Caution:  some of those ladies can run to the Moon backwards.

Regards
 Old Al
stryped@hotmail.com - 26 Oct 2006 22:30 GMT
When I say "aerobic exercise" I am talking running/swimming etc. The
weight lifters told me if I wanted to add upper body muscle and not
look so skinny, too much cardio would kill any muscle gaines.

I am thinking I need it anyway. If I join a gym, thinking Mon, Wed, Fri
lifting weights for 30 minutes, running on the tradmill 15.
Tuesday/Thursday swimming for 30 minutes. What do you think?
> stryped@hotmail.com wrote in message
> <1161867765.228445.317890@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> Regards
>   Old Al
Roger Zoul - 27 Oct 2006 00:19 GMT
:: x-no-archive:yes
::
:: When I say "aerobic exercise" I am talking running/swimming etc. The
:: weight lifters told me if I wanted to add upper body muscle and not
:: look so skinny, too much cardio would kill any muscle gaines.

It's a simple matter.  If you want to grow muscle mass, you need to eat more
food to support the gain in muscle mass. Cardio burns calories.  If you do a
lot of cardio and burn a lot of calories, then those calories won't be
available to support mass gain.

:: I am thinking I need it anyway.

Your life, your body, do what you like.  What you're outlined will keep you
healthy, but you probably won't grow much (maybe some, that depends).

If I join a gym, thinking Mon, Wed,
:: Fri lifting weights for 30 minutes, running on the tradmill 15.
:: Tuesday/Thursday swimming for 30 minutes. What do you think?

That would work. Of course, being so rigid in your program won't get you a
very enjoyable time.  Can  you take up a sport like basketball, cycling,
etc, that  you can do on the weekends?  Some part of your activity needs to
be something you do that you really enjoy.

Workout schemes are fluid things. You can change them up after a period of
time if you're not getting the results you want.

:: oldal4865 wrote:
::: stryped@hotmail.com wrote in message
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
::: Regards
:::   Old Al
Chris Malcolm - 29 Oct 2006 00:11 GMT
> I recommend aerobic exercise classes to everyone.    You "buy into the
> group" and show up,  even when you would rather sit home on your butt.
> Then, during class,  you "keep up" and get that heart pumping because
> everybody else is.

> Umm. . .age 35 you say.    Note that aerobic exercise classes for folks in
> your age group are populated with extremely good looking young ladies.    I
> know this for a fact since I attend both the Old F*rt and the Young Folks
> sessions.     (I won't tell your wife if you don't.)

And the classes for Old Farts don't have some good looking old ladies?
:-)

Signature

Chris Malcolm        cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk              DoD #205
IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Shawn Hirn - 29 Oct 2006 21:15 GMT
> > I recommend aerobic exercise classes to everyone.    You "buy into the
> > group" and show up,  even when you would rather sit home on your butt.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> And the classes for Old Farts don't have some good looking old ladies?
> :-)

Hah! On Friday after work, I walked from my office to the gym where I go
to work out. Wow! What a treat that was! I did 20 minutes of stationary
bike riding while I watched a video on my iPod, then I did 20 minutes on
an elliptical machine. Just as I started using the elliptical machine, a
young woman started using an elliptical machine right in front of me.
She couldn't have been in any better physical shape and she had on long
black sweat pants that were so tight, they looked like they were painted
on, and she had a black sweatshirt on that revealed her midriff and
every time she took a step on that machine, she did a sexy wiggle. Wow!
She was as hot as hot gets! Sigh! I wish I was 20 years younger!
Peabody - 27 Oct 2006 00:48 GMT
stryped@hotmail.com says...

> I am stuggeling with what type of workout to make me
> look better but also prevent diabetes. I am healthy
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> is impossible to both gain muscle and lose bodyfat. You
> have to do one at a time.

I've found there is an amazing amount of BS in the world of
weight training.  In this case, it seems to me that there
are a lot of fitness models on the cover of Men's Health,
etc., who appear to have gained muscle and reduced fat at
the same time.

> So I am leaning toward liftin 3 days a week,
> swimming/running two days . But I feel this is not
> enough cardio. Plus people told me I will not be able to
> gain muscle with all that cardio. I am just so confused.

[sigh]

I guess if you are limited to working out 5 days a week, I
would prefer 2 days of weights and 3 days of cardio.  But
you know, that's just my preference.  Also, weight training
does have some cardiovascular benefits, so I'm not sure it
matters all that much so long as you're breathing hard.  But
I predict you will find that the cardio doesn't prevent you
from gaining muscle.

I do weights three times a week.  I do 15 lifts (actually,
mostly machines), one set of each, about 15 reps.  It
takes about 35 minutes. I'm 5'10", 170 lbs, and am generally
considered to have a good body.  I'm a good bit older than
you.

Oh, and the weight lifting gurus will also tell you that you
can't do any good doing just one set of each lift - you have
to do three sets.  Well, pretty much every time that's been
tested in a formal study, it's been found that one set is as
good as three.  If you do one set, and do the lifts in an
order that varies the muscle groups involved, then you don't
have to spend 80% of your time in the gym resting between
sets.  It just takes a lot less time to do the workout.

I do cardio the other 4 days.  Elliptical machines, because
they are non-impact, or swimming.  Your bad knee may like
the ellipticals.

To prevent injury, you might want to start at 20 reps, and
then work your way down to 15 or 12 as the joints, ligaments
and tendons toughen up after a few months.  As for specific
lifts, the squat is probably the single most beneficial lift
for men, but otherwise it doesn't really matter so long as
you cover the major muscle groups.  Visually, the biggest
effects come from the bench press for the pecs, pullups or
lat pulldowns for the lats that give you the V shape, and
shrugs for the trapezius.  Some ab work is needed, but a
six-pack is primarily a function of bodyfat levels.

Well, what it comes down to is - just give it a try, and see
what works for you. Have fun.  Good luck.
stryped@hotmail.com - 27 Oct 2006 13:30 GMT
My plan was to run for 15 minutes after lifting on Mon-Wed-Fri on top
of the swimming for 30 minutes Tue and Thur.
> stryped@hotmail.com says...
>
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
> Well, what it comes down to is - just give it a try, and see
> what works for you. Have fun.  Good luck.
bj - 27 Oct 2006 21:25 GMT
> Anyway, race is over and don't have a lot to run for.

If you don't enjoy running, then it isn't the right exercise program for
you. This applies to just about *any* program you do for short-term goals.
You'll be at this exercise business for the long haul, so find something --
or several somethings, that you can enjoy enough that you'll keep doing it.
You don't have to do the same sport, routine, workout all the time. You are
allowed to change for any reason or no reason.
The important thing is to do.....something.

Or you could find another race to tune up for. If you're anywhere near any
kind of metro area there's probably a ton of them (though things tend to
slack off a bit over the winter). I live in DC & do 40 or so races a year,
various distances, and also volunteer at several club events, which adds to
the sociable aspect of it as a hobby.

> I am stuggling with what type of workout to make me look better but
> also prevent diabetes. I am healthy after all the running,

You won't keep that fitness if you you don't continue to exercise -- in this
case, some kind of aerobic exercise if you want to keep the kind of fitness
you got from running.

> but people (including wife) always comment about how skinny I look.

With the *possible* exception of your wife, it doesn't matter what other
people think. They may have skewed ideas of what is "skinny" anyway. Maybe
they're just jealous...and yes, I have gotten that kind of response to my
"skinniness" -- which happens to be what I weighed when I finished college,
& nobody called me a runt back then.
What does your doctor say?
What do your clothes say?
What does your mirror say?
What do *you* say? Are you unhappy with your current look?

Maybe you need different people telling you how you look.
bj
 
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