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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / October 2006The S-word
G'day G'day Folks, The 7th of October edition of the New Scientist examine the proposition that all people over forty would benefit from being on statins. Statins lower cholesterol. They also lower the death rate from coronary heart disease. They do so more effectively than can be accounted for from their cholesterol lowering. Other modes of action appear to be reduction in inflammation and surprisingly helping the same pathways that Vit D effects. Of course there are some people who can't take statins and there are those who'd like to gain the same benefits without making statins their first resort. Vit D is commonly known as the sunshine vitamin. In New Zealand it is said that three hours of sunlight on face in Summertime is sufficient to supply one's Vit D requirement. The same exposure in Winter supplies only one fifth of the one's requirement. It is especially in Winter that one must think about getting one's Vit D second hand. In some countries the deaths from coronary heart attacks goes up by as much as 50%. Some of this is attributable to lower sunlight and lower Vit D. Of course there are other factors. As T2 diabetics who wish to live with a minimum of complications it is natural to aim for quality of food rather than quantity. In this instance it may well mean free range eggs. Eggs are a useful source of Vit D. So are canned fish such as sardines. For advice on anti-inflammatory foods it is hard to beat Jack Challem's book on Anti-inflammatory Diet. For regular readers of asd there is nothing very new. Eat vegetables, fish, nuts, berries, olive oil etc. For advice on how to lower cholesterol a good starting point might be the Portfolio diet http://portfolioeatingplan.com/About/content.cfm?ItemNumber=4357 (this URL give information on a recent non-vegan study known as the forth study that achieves success and so is more useful to those on asd who aren't vegan or even vegetarian.) or 50 Ways to Lower your Cholesterol by Mary P McGowan and Jo McGowan Chopra. Best wishes,  SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin : Vit D is commonly known as the sunshine vitamin. In New Zealand it is : said that three hours of sunlight on face in Summertime is sufficient [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] : mean free range eggs. Eggs are a useful source of Vit D. So are : canned fish such as sardines. How about that old standby of my youth, hated by most kids (except my best friend, Barbara, cod liver oil? Of course, the cod is not as easy or cheap to come by as it was in teh 1940's. Now tht ws a great source of vitamin D How are other fish, eaten fresh, like blue fish, mackeral, salmon, etc, all oily ones? Wendy This post not CC'd by email On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:35:49 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker" <wbaker@panix.com> wrote: >: Vit D is commonly known as the sunshine vitamin. In New Zealand it is >: said that three hours of sunlight on face in Summertime is sufficient [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >cheap to come by as it was in teh 1940's. Now tht ws a great source of >vitamin D G'day G'day Wendy, Cod liver oil is a great source of Vit D. For some it is too great a source. I believe there is a serious issue for women who might be pregnant possibly without realising it. Since I wasn't up with the details I avoided the issue. One of the strengths of ASD is that for someone it will be a live issue they'll provide the details because they are important. >How are other fish, eaten fresh, like blue fish, mackeral, salmon, etc, >all oily ones? Good point Wendy. Oily fish may well make the difference between life and the other in Winter time. Mackerel is usually cheap whether tinned or fresh. Some people find the taste too strong and that helps keep the cost down. That is where clever chefs come into their own. >Wendy Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin : This post not CC'd by email : On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:35:49 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker" : <wbaker@panix.com> wrote: : >: Vit D is commonly known as the sunshine vitamin. In New Zealand it is : >: said that three hours of sunlight on face in Summertime is sufficient [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] : >cheap to come by as it was in teh 1940's. Now tht ws a great source of : >vitamin D : G'day G'day Wendy, : Cod liver oil is a great source of Vit D. For some it is too great : a source. I believe there is a serious issue for women who might be : pregnant possibly without realising it. Since I wasn't up with the : details I avoided the issue. One of the strengths of ASD is that for : someone it will be a live issue they'll provide the details because : they are important. : >How are other fish, eaten fresh, like blue fish, mackeral, salmon, etc, : >all oily ones? : Good point Wendy. Oily fish may well make the difference between life : and the other in Winter time. Mackerel is usually cheap whether : tinned or fresh. Some people find the taste too strong and that helps : keep the cost down. That is where clever chefs come into their own. : >Wendy : Best wishes, : http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin having mackeral tonight, probably broiled (under the flame in the oven) with lemon juice, onion and black pepper, accompanied by fauxtatoes, mashed cauliflower with a little butte rand parmesgian cheese, green salad and small slice of canteloupe. Looking forward to it. Wendy >: This post not CC'd by email >: On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:35:49 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker" [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > >Wendy Just a side issue. There is mackeral - and mackeral. From a previous discussion, it became clear that when I was discussing a mackeral steak the other person from the northern hemisphere had no idea what I meant. The steak I eat is a cross-cut from a fish like this http://tinyurl.com/ybhbyn I suspect that canned mackeral comes from fish of a similar size. And the fish he ate was more like this: http://tinyurl.com/ycs3c8 Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. -- http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ latest: Menton Memories : >: This post not CC'd by email : >: On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:35:49 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker" [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] : > : >Wendy : Just a side issue. There is mackeral - and mackeral. : From a previous discussion, it became clear that when I was : discussing a mackeral steak the other person from the : northern hemisphere had no idea what I meant. : The steak I eat is a cross-cut from a fish like this : http://tinyurl.com/ybhbyn : I suspect that canned mackeral comes from fish of a similar : size. : And the fish he ate was more like this: : http://tinyurl.com/ycs3c8 : Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. : d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg : Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. : -- : http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/ : latest: Menton Memories there are several mackerals sold in my area, but mostly, we get the Boston Maceral, which is a small fish that yu can eat a whole one of, or a half, if it is slightly bigger. We also get Spanish mackeral, which is larger, but fairly slim, and loks like it has no scales(they are very small). I have not seen any big enough to get the crosscut steaks form around here, but would not be surprised to know they exist somewhere, The fish is dark and oily and the skin is gray and black, kind of rippled stripes. It tasted good tonight:-) Wendy >having mackeral tonight, probably broiled (under the flame in the oven) >with lemon juice, onion and black pepper, accompanied by fauxtatoes, >mashed cauliflower with a little butte rand parmesgian cheese, green salad >and small slice of canteloupe. Looking forward to it. Got you beat, I had some for breakfast. A fillet of peppered mackerel, grilled briefly, with watercress, rocket, toasted sunflower seeds and a couple of oatcakes. Doesn't always work for breakfast, it can be a bit repetitive, but I think I got away with it. > Vit D is commonly known as the sunshine vitamin. In New Zealand it > is said that three hours of sunlight on face in Summertime is > sufficient to supply one's Vit D requirement. The same exposure in > Winter supplies only one fifth of the one's requirement. It is > especially in Winter that one must think about getting one's Vit D > second hand. In some countries the deaths from coronary heart > attacks goes up by as much as 50%. Some of this is attributable to > lower sunlight and lower Vit D. Of course there are other factors. > As T2 diabetics who wish to live with a minimum of complications it > is natural to aim for quality of food rather than quantity. In this > instance it may well mean free range eggs. Eggs are a useful > source of Vit D. So are canned fish such as sardines. In the summer, I get D from the sun and milk. In the winter it's from milk and cod liver oil. I take cod liver oil once/week. Out in the sun for 20-30 minutes, 3 time per week, with as much skin exposed as possible will restock your D supplies unless you live far north or far south. C This post not CC'd by email On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:17:47 -0700, "Chrome" <physio@logger.us> wrote: >In the summer, I get D from the sun and milk. In the winter it's >from milk and cod liver oil. I take cod liver oil once/week. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >C G'day G'day Chrome, I had to get out my reading glasses to check your pseudonym. Yes it does say Chrome, appropriate I guess for someone wishing perhaps to reduce insulin resistance or simply someone who shines brightly even on dull days <grin> FWIIW, the high voltage has gone on my screen and the focus is a bit soft. I'm impressed to see you taking cod liver oil, I really thought it had gone out of fashion. I never have taken cod liver oil and wonder how one takes it. Is it by the teaspoon with holding of noses, the classic television way or is there some more civilized way. We all learn from one another. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > This post not CC'd by email > On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:17:47 -0700, "Chrome" <physio@logger.us> > wrote: > >> In the summer, I get D from the sun and milk. In the winter it's >> from milk and cod liver oil. I take cod liver oil once/week. >> Out in the sun for 20-30 minutes, 3 time per week, with as much >> skin exposed as possible will restock your D supplies unless you >> live far north or far south. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I had to get out my reading glasses to check your pseudonym. Yes > it does say Chrome, appropriate I guess for someone wishing perhaps > to reduce insulin resistance or simply someone who shines brightly > even on dull days <grin> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > had gone out of fashion. I never have taken cod liver oil and > wonder how one takes it. Is it by the teaspoon with holding of > noses, the classic television way or is there some more civilized > way. We all learn from one another. I take it in softgel form but you can get lemon flavor as a liquid. This is the product I take: http://tinyurl.com/y54rgb Look under 'Products' for different fish oils. I only take it once/week because cod liver oil is high in vitamin A. Now there's a version that is low in A. I may try it. C > Best wishes, This post not CC'd by email On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 00:21:55 -0700, "Chrome" <phylio@locker.org> wrote: >I take it in softgel form but you can get lemon flavor as a >liquid. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >C G'day G'day Chrome, That low Vit A version sounds like it has a useful built in safety factor. Thanks for the information. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > This post not CC'd by email > On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:17:47 -0700, "Chrome" <physio@logger.us> > wrote: >>In the summer, I get D from the sun and milk. In the winter it's >>from milk and cod liver oil. I take cod liver oil once/week. >>Out in the sun for 20-30 minutes, 3 time per week, with as much >>skin exposed as possible will restock your D supplies unless you >>live far north or far south. > G'day G'day Chrome, > I had to get out my reading glasses to check your pseudonym. Yes it > does say Chrome, appropriate I guess for someone wishing perhaps to > reduce insulin resistance or simply someone who shines brightly even > on dull days <grin> > FWIIW, the high voltage has gone on my screen and the focus is a bit > soft. > I'm impressed to see you taking cod liver oil, I really thought it had > gone out of fashion. I never have taken cod liver oil and wonder how > one takes it. Is it by the teaspoon with holding of noses, the > classic television way or is there some more civilized way. We all > learn from one another. I've been taking it on and off for decades, i.e., there's always a bottle in the house, but sometimes it isn't opened for weeks. When I remember, which is probably once or twice a week on average, I take two dessert spoonfuls. The taste doesn't bother me, possibly because my Mum made me take it every day as a kid. It's only mildly distasteful, and in my time I've had to regularly swallow very much more disgusting medicines. I think the usual vit A toxicity levels are exaggeratedly low. There are plenty of arthritic cod liver oil enthusiasts who've been taking supposedly toxic amounts for years with nothing but benefits to report. YMMV, of course. My suspicion is that especially sensitive people have biassed the standard toxic threshold figure. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >I'm impressed to see you taking cod liver oil, I really thought it had >gone out of fashion. I never have taken cod liver oil and wonder how >one takes it. Is it by the teaspoon with holding of noses, the >classic television way or is there some more civilized way. We all >learn from one another. I'm pretty sure it was handed out free along with orange juice when I was little, ISTR a teaspoonful at a time and it was nothing like as nasty as castor oil. But then I always liked fish. > G'day G'day Folks, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > appear to be reduction in inflammation and surprisingly helping the > same pathways that Vit D effects. If you can hack through the abstract below well and good. Otherwise it discusses the effect of the statins, simvastatin and pravastatin, on the vitamin E - Gamma tocopherol. Most vitamin E sold over the counter is the alpha-tocopherol variety. "... pravastatin did not affect whereas simvastatin significantly augmented plasma gamma-T levels ..." The significance is that not all statins have the same effect. Supplementing with alpha-tocopherol has been reported to reduce Gamma tocopherol. Some of the negative reporting on vitamin E supplementation relates to this issue. A new compound-specific pleiotropic effect of statins: Modification of plasma gamma-tocopherol levels - http://tinyurl.com/w5jlj. "Gamma tocopherol (gamma-T) is a recognized peroxynitrite scavenger, reputedly metabolized via the cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP3A4). In this study, we assessed whether equipotent LDL-lowering doses of statins with or without inhibitory activity on CYP3A4 differently affect gamma-T metabolism. Patients with ATP III criteria for statin use (n=35) were randomly allocated to treatment with simvastatin 20mg/day or pravastatin 40mg/day. Plasma lipids, alpha-tocopherol (alpha-T), gamma-T as well as the urinary excretion of the gamma-T metabolite 2,7,8-trimethyl-2-(2'carboxyethyl)-6-hydroxychroman (gamma-CEHC), were determined at baseline and after 6 weeks of treatment. Pravastatin and simvastatin equally reduced LDL-C (-42.8+/-2.9 and -42.1+/-3.0%) and alpha-T levels (-17.5+/-4.2 and -12.2+/-4.1%), and increased the alpha-T/LDL-C ratios (51.4+/-14.6 and 60.4+/-15%). Conversely, pravastatin did not affect whereas simvastatin significantly augmented plasma gamma-T levels (22+/-7.9%, p=0.009, between groups p=0.0045). Moreover, the gamma-T/LDL-C ratio increased significantly more with simvastatin than with pravastatin (124+/-23 versus 61.3+/-22.1%, p=0.05 between groups). In addition, pravastatin but not simvastatin increased the urinary excretion of gamma-CEHC (34.3+/-17.3%, p=0.056; between groups p=0.046). In conclusion, simvastatin and pravastatin produced distinct effects on gamma-T metabolism, presumably as a result of different statin-CYP interactions. PMID: 16860808" Frank This post not CC'd by email On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 23:46:24 -0400, Jefferson <xyz@adelphia.netng> wrote: >> G'day G'day Folks, >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >tocopherol. Some of the negative reporting on vitamin E supplementation >relates to this issue. G'day G'day Frank, I have suspected as much. That and incorrect stereochemistry of the alpha-tocopherol. The sad reality is the people go for BIG numbers on supplement bottles and the numbers on Vit E bottles are alpha-tocopherol equivalents. Alpha-tocopherol equivalents are great if you're a rat and need to get pregnant. From then on it gets debatable whether alpha-tocopherol is the most important. True it does survive passing through the liver and the other tocopherols don't but perhaps those that don't pass through the liver do something important in the liver. That is why they don't pass through. Then there are the tocotrienols. IMHO, history seems to be on the side of not trying to be too clever but to accept the balance that humans have evolved with in their diet. >A new compound-specific pleiotropic effect of statins: Modification of >plasma gamma-tocopherol levels - http://tinyurl.com/w5jlj. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >Frank Thanks Frank, It is one where we really do need a take home message for those on statins. My GP has thrown most every thing else at me recently but has never so much as mentioned the S-word. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > Vit D is commonly known as the sunshine vitamin. In New Zealand it is > said that three hours of sunlight on face in Summertime is sufficient [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > mean free range eggs. Eggs are a useful source of Vit D. So are > canned fish such as sardines. Absorption of vitamin D will vary due to different vitamin D receptors (VDR). There have been studies on VDR in many European countries. A scholar.google.com search on VDR+vitamin+D+receptors resulted in 7,120 finds - http://tinyurl.com/y36b38. Adding Italy to this search still resulted in 828 finds, yet Sicily only had 25. Likewise, adding bone to the search had 4,480 finds. Similarly, adding cancer to the search ended up with 3,360 finds. African 837 finds. Women 2,150 finds. Men 1,720. Food 991. What can we say? Vitamin D has been researched by many different angles. Frank |
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