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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / August 2006

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Another hypothesis

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Quentin Grady - 20 Aug 2006 02:30 GMT
G'day G'day Folks,

  Scott J. Deron, D.O., FACC has written a book on C-reactive
Protein, subtitled "Everything you need to know about CRP and Why it's
more important than Cholesterol to your health."

You might expect a fired up attack on the cholesterol hypothesis but
you'd be mistaken.  Deron doesn't come with the angst that accompanies
McCully's devotion to the homocysteine hypothesis.  What Deron sets
out to show is that for many people with apparently normal levels of
blood cholesterol there is a still a risk of coronary heart disease.
As he puts it cholesterol is fundamental in building plaque.  CRP is
an indicator that the blood clots in the plaque are likely to be
unstable.  Put simply some people can have what are regarded as normal
amounts of plaque but if they are unstable then they are at risk even
if a cholesterol test doesn't show it.

What he sees as the issue is the combination of high LDL and CRP.  If
both are high then one is in double jeopardy.  In women, if one is
high and the other it low then high CRP is worse then high LDL.  Some
of the results are quite puzzling in this respect.  Results applicable
to women don't necessarily transfer over to men.

Most people accept that smoking causes lung cancer. About the only
people who pretend not to is the lawyers for tobacco companies. They
are the ones who shout "correlation isn't evidence of cause and
effect."  Most of us accept this.  Where correlation points to a three
or four fold increase in some outcome we are reluctant to accept
correlation as evidence of cause and effect.  With smoking there was a
fifteen times increase in lung cancer amongst smokers than non
smokers.  For most people this is convincing evidence.  The
correlation is too strong to ignore.  

What has this to do with CRP and the readers of ASD?  

Well, Paul Ridker at the Centre for Cardiovascular Disease Prevention
at Brigham and Women's Hospital found CRP was one of the best
predictors of future chronic disease. In particular he found that high
CRP was indicative of a sixteen fold increase in the rate of diabetes.
The book doesn't state whether that was T1, T2 or both combined.

As might be expected CRP correlates with many things people know
intuitively are bad for health but might underestimate.  

Obesity.  Fat cells pour out CRP. Losing weight is a benefit.

Gum disease.  The toxins from periodontal disease flood into the blood
and lead to elevated CRP.  Put simply gum disease is a major health
risk for diabetics.  This does provide one good reason for
supplementing with Vit C.  IMHO the safer course is to supplement with
say 500 mg per day rather than 1000 mg per day and to have a diet rich
in polyphenols so that the vitamin C gets recycled and never reaches
toxic levels.  Others might have different views on this matter.

Exercise.  
Exercise even without weight loss leads to lower CRP levels.

Smoking.  Smoking leads to higher CRP levels.

Inflammatory diseases.  Rheumatic fever, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus
all lead to increased CRP.  The issues here are more complex. Best one
talks them through with a medical professional if they are of concern.

Deron doesn't advise anything extraordinary in the diet line.  His
recommendations are largely in line with the AHA.  Reduce saturated
fats.  Reduce trans fats by avoiding corn, sunflower, safflower oil
etc because these are likely to be partially hydrogenated to improve
their stability.

Change to olive and canola oil.  He seems to think canola oil isn't
partially hydrogenated in the US.  I'm not so sure. Even deodorising
leads to some trans fat formation.  The one certain thing is extra
virgin olive oil never needs hydrogenation.

As an alternative he suggests the DASH diet.  The DASH diet with its
emphasis on vegetables was the starting place for my own dietary
explorations. The DASH diet made a few simple modifications to SAD the
standard American diet.  I simply pushed it further to make it more T2
diabetic friendly.

The rest of the book is devoted to proper breathing, relaxation,
meditation, visualization, petting a pet, massage, humour, lifestyle
change, asprin, statins, beta blockers.  The discerning reader will
note that it really doesn't matter how relevant CRP really is, doing
enough beneficial things in one's life is likely to lead to benefit
which ever feature actually produces the benefit.  

Put simply while the book title suggests it is about ground breaking
news about CRP the majority of the book is about common sense rather
conventional views on dealing with life without chronic disease.

Best wishes,
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Peter G. (Bigbird) - 20 Aug 2006 04:14 GMT
> G'day G'day Folks,
>
>   Scott J. Deron, D.O., FACC has written a book on C-reactive
> Protein, subtitled "Everything you need to know about CRP and Why it's
> more important than Cholesterol to your health."

<<snip thought provoking article>>

> Change to olive and canola oil.  He seems to think canola oil isn't
> partially hydrogenated in the US.  I'm not so sure. Even deodorising
> leads to some trans fat formation.  The one certain thing is extra
> virgin olive oil never needs hydrogenation.

<<more snip>> --
> Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /

Hi Quentin,

What do you think about grape seed oil. I found some on sale and bought it
for the infrequent times I wanted to fry something because of its high smoke
point. I've researched it but would like to know what you think about it?

Peter G.
(bigbird)
Wes Groleau - 20 Aug 2006 04:33 GMT
> What do you think about grape seed oil. I found some on sale and bought it

Is it "grapeseed" or "rapeseed" ?

The latter I've been told _is_ canola oil.

Signature

Wes Groleau
Can we afford to be relevant?
http://www.cetesol.org/stevick.html

Peter G. (Bigbird) - 20 Aug 2006 05:22 GMT
>> What do you think about grape seed oil. I found some on sale and bought
>> it
>
> Is it "grapeseed" or "rapeseed" ?
>
> The latter I've been told _is_ canola oil.

Nope, Grapeseed oil..........
Quentin Grady - 20 Aug 2006 06:43 GMT
This post not CC'd by email
On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 20:14:54 -0700, "Peter G. \(Bigbird\)" <unknown
at whoknows dot us> wrote:

>Hi Quentin,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Peter G.
>(bigbird)

G'day G'day Peter,

I've thought about it but been unable to reach a useful conclusion.

It appears to be rich in antioxidants but it is also rich in omega-6
polyunsaturated fats which most diet already have in excess. I don't
know what to make of it so have simply avoided it.  When one stir
fries with an oil one important factor is going to be how much of the
oil is actually included into the meal.

Sorry I can't be or more help,

Best wishes,
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

David R. Throop - 21 Aug 2006 04:35 GMT
>>. I... bought grape seed oil for the infrequent times I wanted to
>>fry something because of [ grape seed oil]'s high smoke point.

>It appears to be rich in antioxidants but it is also rich in omega-6
>polyunsaturated fats

Hmmm, something doesn't add up here - anything rich in PUFAs (n3 OR
n6) is unlikely to have a high smoke point.

DRT
Quentin Grady - 21 Aug 2006 06:23 GMT
This post not CC'd by email
On 20 Aug 2006 22:35:56 -0500, throop@cs.utexas.edu (David R. Throop)
wrote:

>>>. I... bought grape seed oil for the infrequent times I wanted to
>>>fry something because of [ grape seed oil]'s high smoke point.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>DRT

G'day G'day David,

Glad to know someone else is puzzled.

A good starting point would be to check out some statements as
objectively as we can.  For the newbies, I'll give the URL for the
USDA database.  

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Put in the search string

grapeseed

and select the sole entry

grapeseed oil.

Select 100g

We see it has 9.6% saturated fats.
            16.1% monounsaturated fats
            69.9% polyunsaturated fats

Phytosterols   180 mg/100g
Vit E           28.8 mg/100mg.

I've avoided it on account of its high omega-6 polyunsaturated fat
content.  

How it gets to have a high smoke point, if indeed it really does, I've
added to life's little mysteries.

Best wishes,  

Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Peter G. (Bigbird) - 21 Aug 2006 07:38 GMT
> This post not CC'd by email
>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> Best wishes,

Hi again Quentin,

Many thanks for your input.

I looked at numerous obviously commercial sites that claim anywhere from
420 - 485 degrees F for a smoke point. One less than cite-able site posited
it was because of a low percentage of free fatty acid. I tend to think that
may be the case.

From Wikpedia (first definition I found); "Fatty acids can be bound or
attached to other molecules, like triglycerides or phospholipids. When they
are not attached to other molecules, they are known as "free" fatty acids."

So, I'm guessing that the great majority of the fatty acids in grapeseed oil
are already tied into various molecules. This is bound to have an impact on
how the body processes it (pun intended).

I got a great price on the grapeseed oil, much better than my various olive
oils, thus I tend to use it for the infrequent times I add oil to the sauté
pan.

I also have sesame and walnut oils for special dishes .

Peter G.
(bigbird)
 
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