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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / July 2006Off the metformin
Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. So I'm off the stuff now! Wish me luck. The quack said that sometimes diabetes can get much worse when people go off it - presumably because it's been hiding some progression. We might argue about when to go back on it, he thinks an A1c of 7 is acceptable, but I guess there's always the black market! Bloods were generally fine - nothing abnormal in the batch at all, except BP of 92/58 - I think that's a new record for me : ) Total cholesterol is down a little since last time, but as they only measured total, not a very interesting figure. Kidneys are good too. There's a new test out, I forget the name - glomular clearance??, where normal is in the 1-2 range, and diabetics are "always" 3-4 according to the DSN; mine was 1.2. Now if I could get rid of this flipping arthritis in my neck and hip, I'd be a happy bunny... Nicky.  SignatureA1c 10.5/5.3/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 No Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/73/72Kg > Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. So > I'm off the stuff now! Wish me luck. The quack I'd love to hear the nickname the Doctor has for you. LOL But seriously, if you're not happy with your doctor why are you still seeing him? Glutton for punishment? Masochist? Or do you just love to regail your friends with how much better you think you are than him? Kurt >> Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. So >> I'm off the stuff now! Wish me luck. The quack > > I'd love to hear the nickname the Doctor has for you. LOL :) i do have to wonder why someone would go to a doctor they think is a quack. > But seriously, if you're not happy with your doctor why are you still > seeing him? Glutton for punishment? Masochist? Or do you just love to > regail your friends with how much better you think you are than him? > > Kurt >>> Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. So >>> I'm off the stuff now! Wish me luck. The quack [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> I'd love to hear the nickname the Doctor has for you. LOL > i do have to wonder why someone would go to a doctor they think is a quack. In some cases, such as in rural circumstances, there is no choice unless you move. In some cases the choice is between quacks. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >> Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. So >> I'm off the stuff now! Wish me luck. The quack > > I'd love to hear the nickname the Doctor has for you. LOL He probably calls me "the one with good control". > But seriously, if you're not happy with your doctor why are you still > seeing him? Because there's nothing better. Every doctor in the UK has to follow the stupid standards that are effectively set by your best buddies. However, mine is learning from my experience (and that of his Dad, who was dx'd within weeks of me), and is becoming enthusiastic instead of actively hostile to low carbing and weightlifting. Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.3/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 No Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/73/72Kg > >> Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. So > >> I'm off the stuff now! Wish me luck. The quack > > > > I'd love to hear the nickname the Doctor has for you. LOL > > He probably calls me "the one with good control". Yeah, I'm sure that's it. LOL > > But seriously, if you're not happy with your doctor why are you still > > seeing him? > > Because there's nothing better. Every doctor in the UK has to follow the > stupid standards that are effectively set by your best buddies. I've discovered that the ADA's advice is only "stupid" to people who are stupid themselves, or have a stupid agenda and misrepresent the advice the ADA gives. Kinda like how some in here misrepresent the ADA's advice on A1c. That misrepresentation is stupid. But you're right about the ADA being my best buddies. Did you know that they IM me at least 5 times a day? They have more friends than MySpace's Tom and yet they have chosed me as their best buddy. Tomorrow I'm going to fly to Virginia and have lunch with them. Then all of my buddies and me are going to take a Club Med vacation together. You might say we're kindred spirits! >However, > mine is learning from my experience (and that of his Dad, who was dx'd > within weeks of me), and is becoming enthusiastic instead of actively > hostile to low carbing and weightlifting. Since there doesn't seem to be any agreement about what low-carbing is it's hard for anyone to become hostile about it. I agree with the ADA that diet and the "carb" level is something that is different for everyone and people need to work with professionals to discover what their personal needs are. As far as weightlifting, I'm glad to hear your doctor supports exercise as it is so often not mentioned in here. There are a couple like Roger and Tom who use it to great effect, but many others don't seem to have a good exercise plan. I find it hard to believe that "every" doctor in the UK follows the exact same philosophy about diabetes. Surely you can find one that is more in line with your thinking. Or if not, maybe that should tell you something. Kurt >> >> Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. So >> >> I'm off the stuff now! Wish me luck. The quack [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Yeah, I'm sure that's it. LOL do you have proof to the contrary? didn't think so. >> > But seriously, if you're not happy with your doctor why are you still >> > seeing him? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >advice the ADA gives. Kinda like how some in here misrepresent the >ADA's advice on A1c. That misrepresentation is stupid. Doctor's in the UK don't always follow anything put out by the ADA, after all that is the American Diabetes Assoc. >But you're right about the ADA being my best buddies. Did you know >that they IM me at least 5 times a day? They have more friends than [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Kurt yep, how little you know about non-american medical systems. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins Jesus never hated anyone. DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > >> >> Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. So > >> >> I'm off the stuff now! Wish me luck. The quack [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > yep, how little you know about non-american medical systems. What it really shows is that you didn't read her initial post. She was the one who said the UK doctors follow the "stupid standards" that are set by my "best buddies", meaning the ADA. So I guess you're wrong...again. Hey, I don't really mind you being a dick because you're mildly amusing, but at least try to get some of the facts straight. Kurt >Hey, I don't really mind you being a dick because you're mildly >amusing, but at least try to get some of the facts straight. > >Kurt go kiss your mother with that mouth, maybe you'll take the hint when she slaps a breath in there the size of a Volvo. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins Jesus never hated anyone. DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > >Hey, I don't really mind you being a dick because you're mildly > >amusing, but at least try to get some of the facts straight. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > go kiss your mother with that mouth, maybe you'll take the hint when > she slaps a breath in there the size of a Volvo. Here... I think you dropped this "mint." Priscilla On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:18:38 -0400, "Priscilla H. Ballou" <vze23t8n@verizon.net> Huffed and Puffed the following into the madness of usenet: >> >Hey, I don't really mind you being a dick because you're mildly >> >amusing, but at least try to get some of the facts straight. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Priscilla thanks dear, the stench hit me like ton of bricks. I hope his mother fairs better. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins Jesus never hated anyone. DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... . > On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:18:38 -0400, "Priscilla H. Ballou" > <vze23t8n@verizon.net> Huffed and Puffed the following into the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > thanks dear, the stench hit me like ton of bricks. I hope his mother > fairs better. Glad something hit you like a ton of bricks because the truth sure didn't. Still having a hard time admitting you were wrong about how the UK standards are set a result of my "best buddies" at the ADA? Kurt Ma?k <stopthespam@shootspammers.com> wrote: >>> > But seriously, if you're not happy with your doctor why are you still >>> > seeing him? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>advice the ADA gives. Kinda like how some in here misrepresent the >>ADA's advice on A1c. That misrepresentation is stupid. > Doctor's in the UK don't always follow anything put out by the ADA, > after all that is the American Diabetes Assoc. NHS doctors in the UK are obliged to follow NHS (National Health Service) rules about diagnosis and treatment. The NHS rules about diagnosis and treatment are interpreted by local NHS organisations with varying degrees of severity. Some allow exceptional cases to break the rules on the discretion of the doctor, some only allow consultants to break the rules, some don't allow exceptional cases at all. The problem with exceptional cases is that they cost more money, e.g. they want more test strips. Local management can get very fierce with doctors who think their own personal medical opinions should take priority over proper business-like financial management targets. These NHS rules are so similar to the ADA recommendations it's very difficult to find a difference. >>I find it hard to believe that "every" doctor in the UK follows the >>exact same philosophy about diabetes. Surely you can find one that is >>more in line with your thinking. Or if not, maybe that should tell you >>something. Private practice doctors, who are very expensive, can think what they like, and prescribe what they like, including such radical and expensive ideas as prescribing test strips to pre-diabetics to help them avoid becoming diabetic. Many NHS doctors don't agree with the NHS guidelines on a number of topics. There is widespread suspicion that some of the guidelines have a lot more to do with money than medicine. But neverthless if you're a doctor and employed by the NHS you do have to toe the official line. My own NHS doctor keeps up with research, has recently attended a conference on diabetes, doesn't agree with the NHS/ADA guidelines on the diagnosis and treatment of diabetes, and has apologised to me for being constrained to follow them where the spending of money is concerned. My guess is that it would not be impossible but quite hard to find such a doctor outside a big city with a university with a medical faculty and teaching hospitals. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] > These NHS rules are so similar to the ADA recommendations it's very > difficult to find a difference. That is because the WHO adopted the ADA criteria when they published them in 1978 and when they updated them in 1998. Your health service uses the WHO standards. The sole difference is that WHO refused to adopt the ADA's announcement that the GTT should no longer be used to diagnose diabetes (except for GD), so it is still used in countries using the WHO standard. --Jenny http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes Diabetes Info http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood Sugar Under Control >> These NHS rules are so similar to the ADA recommendations it's very >> difficult to find a difference. > > That is because the WHO adopted the ADA criteria The Who is diabetic? did they get it all at the same time? "Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Since there doesn't seem to be any agreement about what low-carbing is > it's hard for anyone to become hostile about it. I agree with the ADA > that diet and the "carb" level is something that is different for > everyone thank you for bringing this up Kurt. it is often said here by those that try to bash anyone that does not think low carb should be for everyone. it is well known by anyone that truely researched nutrition with an open mind that the ADA range of fat can be anyplace from 15% to 40% depending upon the individual needs. true for those that think of themselves as expert but are unable to actualy pass those tests on the subject, think or just like to say the ADA is a one size fits all.. when in truth it is those that push low carb books that think eveyone should eat the same. there are alot of aging people in here and I am sure you (Kurt) can understand how important calcuim is amount other things. sure the ADA does suck if you want to use their web site to create a diet but not if you follow their advice and work with a dietitian and learn your carb, fat, protien, fiber, calcium, iron, zinc,( the list goes on and on) needs. and people need to work with professionals to discover what > their personal needs are. to tell you the truth Kurt i have not met or read anyone that wouldnt do better with help from professionals. >As far as weightlifting, I'm glad to hear > your doctor supports exercise as it is so often not mentioned in here. > There are a couple like Roger and Tom who use it to great effect, but > many others don't seem to have a good exercise plan. let us not forget the the word exercise in here can meen anything from getting up and away from the computer and walking into the next room to what Roger is going. if I understood Rogers posts correctly he probably does more exercise than anyone here. but some posts are hard to understand. > I find it hard to believe that "every" doctor in the UK follows the > exact same philosophy about diabetes. Surely you can find one that is > more in line with your thinking. Or if not, maybe that should tell you > something. > > Kurt Very true. i have a lot of work to do... back to work. Tom > thank you for bringing this up Kurt. Ah, enough of the Kurt and Tom show, I'm killfiling both of them. Bye, guys - have fun insulting newbies' intelligence and agreeing with each other whilst I'm ignoring you : ) Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.3/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 No Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/73/72Kg >> thank you for bringing this up Kurt. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Nicky. She is wrong again. its the Tom and Kurt show. time for use both to do the snoopy happy dance :) >> He probably calls me "the one with good control". > > Yeah, I'm sure that's it. LOL A1c 5.3%; this morning's fasting, 4.9; one pp so far this year outside the 4-7 mmol bracket. LOL's on you. > I find it hard to believe that "every" doctor in the UK follows the > exact same philosophy about diabetes. Surely you can find one that is > more in line with your thinking. Not unless one happens to turn up in the practice in the village. It's very rare (and fairly difficult) not to simply go and see your local GP. Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.3/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 No Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/73/72Kg >>> He probably calls me "the one with good control". i guess she forgot she was ignoring you lol. hey 7 minutes seems like a long time to some people > >>> He probably calls me "the one with good control". > > i guess she forgot she was ignoring you lol. hey 7 minutes seems like a long > time to some people I guess she couldn't resist the cheap thrill of sniping at someone from the safety of an alleged killfile. "Temptation is the fire that brings up the scum of the heart." - William Shakespeare Best, Kurt >> >>> He probably calls me "the one with good control". >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I guess she couldn't resist the cheap thrill for some that is all they can get. >of sniping at someone from > the safety of an alleged killfile. at the very least it isnt working > "Temptation is the fire that brings up the scum of the heart." - lol and where does it come out of? > William Shakespeare Britney's dad? > Best, > Kurt you are the Best Kurt i have ever met. >> >>> He probably calls me "the one with good control". >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Best, > Kurt "it is not who we are deep down that counts. it is our actions that define up." Bat Man >>> >>> He probably calls me "the one with good control". >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > it is our actions that define up." > Bat Man let me try one more time. "it is not who we are deep down that counts. it is our actions that define us." Batman Nicky, are you saying the doctor took you off the metformin. He must be a quack if he thinks 7 is perfectly okay. My endo wants me to be about 5.5. I hope you do well. You will have to be more careful with your food intake. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > Nicky, are you saying the doctor took you off the metformin. He must be > a quack if he thinks 7 is perfectly okay. My endo wants me to be about > 5.5. I hope you do well. You will have to be more careful with your > food intake. Loretta, 7 is what Diabetes UK tell him is good, following the ADA's lead :( I shall certainly be testing more often, but I'm not anticipating any huge changes. Metformin was wonderful in sorting my liver dumps out, but they went away around the tail end of the year, touch wood, and I haven't had one since. Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.3/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 No Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/73/72Kg > > Nicky, are you saying the doctor took you off the metformin. He must be > > a quack if he thinks 7 is perfectly okay. My endo wants me to be about > > 5.5. I hope you do well. You will have to be more careful with your > > food intake. > > Loretta, 7 is what Diabetes UK tell him is good, following the ADA's lead :( That's a lie, the ADA does not say 7 is "good." Enough of your amateur quackery! Kurt > Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. Forgive my ignorance, Nicky, what is OTT? Glad your labs were normal. And good luck! Michelle T2 diet & exercise >> Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. > > Forgive my ignorance, Nicky, what is OTT? Sorry - over the top. > Glad your labs were normal. And good luck! Thanks : ) Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.3/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 No Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/73/72Kg Did you want to stay on the Metformin? Did you tell your Dr? I like my Dr for the reason that she and I are partners in the fight with diabetes...in fact because my A1C was creeping up a bit, I suggested we up my dosage...as I had been on only 1000 mg a day....she agreed. You really need to find a Dr who will actually listen to you. My husband has the Dr/God complex...he used to go to the Dr and listen then come home and bitch and moan about the visit...I told him to speak up to his Dr ..after all the Dr is just a Man...not God....I have to admit he is finally opening up to his Dr:) > Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. So > I'm off the stuff now! Wish me luck. The quack said that sometimes [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Nicky. > Did you want to stay on the Metformin? Did you tell your Dr? I like my Dr > for the reason that she and I are partners in the fight with diabetes...in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > visit...I told him to speak up to his Dr ..after all the Dr is just a > Man...not God....I have to admit he is finally opening up to his Dr:) You're paying the bills - you deserve straight answers you can understand or go to someone else. >> Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. So >> I'm off the stuff now! Wish me luck. The quack said that sometimes [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >> Nicky. > Did you want to stay on the Metformin? No, not particularly - I hate pill taking in any form. I've been thinking about dropping it for a while, and these latest bloods, showing zero extra cardio risk plus my pre-menopause age, decided me that I didn't need the metformin. The quack has left it on the repeat prescription form, so I can restart if required. Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.3/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 No Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/73/72Kg > The quack has left it on the repeat > prescription form, so I can restart if required. So why did you write about getting it off the black market? >> The quack has left it on the repeat >> prescription form, so I can restart if required. > > So why did you write about getting it off the > black market? Because sometime this year the practice accountant will do an audit on who's using their allocated prescription, and who isn't. At that point, I'll lose the option to repeat, unless I want to stockpile the stuff, which I don't want to do. If I go back on the met before then, there's no issues; but I hope it'll be many years before I need it again. At that point, I'll be worrying about what the current medication criteria are. Right now, it's an A1c of 7%, which I find unacceptable; I'd want it back at more like the 6% mark. Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.3/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 No Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/73/72Kg > Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. So > I'm off the stuff now! Wish me luck. Change the quack. Metformin is good for you or anybody. A1c of 7 is NOT acceptable. -- Dave, T2, Canada Slap: Metformin MAY be good for you. Depending if you are over weight or not, lipids in good control or not, and how abnormal one's A1c is. Larry > > Had a chat with the quack today, and we decided the Metformin was OTT. So > > I'm off the stuff now! Wish me luck. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -- > Dave, T2, Canada > Slap: Metformin MAY be good for you. Depending if you are over weight > or not, lipids in good control or not, and how abnormal one's A1c is. I'm a fellow that believes hospitals, doctors, and 'meds' prolong life. I take a 'low dose' aspirin every day. I take 'Metformin every day. Do some research on Metformin. It is good for you... and your neighbour. It should be taken off the prescription list and sold over the counter. Metformin has many benefits. Others feel meds are a necessary evil. Others try herbs or something. History suggests if you take your meds you will live a little longer than someone doing say... acupuncture or eating grass or something like that. My opinion of course. -- Dave, T2, Canada Slap: Incorrect/overdose may not be good for you. It is not like candy. This is fact not my opinion. Larry > > Slap: Metformin MAY be good for you. Depending if you are over weight > > or not, lipids in good control or not, and how abnormal one's A1c is. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -- > Dave, T2, Canada |
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