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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / June 2006Rice Diet
Can someone please explain why the Duke Rice Diet program drops blood sugar so drastically? It seems to me that 100% carbs (rice and fruit initially) should do exactly the opposite. Thank you. The Rice Diet is a low fat, low salt diet, which despite its name is not centered on rice. It was developed in the 1930s at Duke University, and is sometimes known as the Duke University Rice Diet. The major components of the diet are healthy eating (fruits, grains, beans, vegetables, olive oil, non fat dairy and lean meat), walking, and taking time for yourself. http://www.answers.com/topic/rice-diet > The Rice Diet is a low fat, low salt diet, which despite its name is > not centered on rice. It was developed in the 1930s at Duke [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and taking time for yourself. > http://www.answers.com/topic/rice-diet Thanks. My question, however, is why does the "initial phase" of the diet ... rice and fruit only, lower blood sugar so drastcally? >Thanks. My question, however, is why does the "initial phase" of the >diet ... rice and fruit only, lower blood sugar so drastcally? Does it really? All I know is that rice sends my BG through the roof, quite rapidly (if I don't compensate by taking enough insulin). >> Thanks. My question, however, is why does the "initial phase" of the >> diet ... rice and fruit only, lower blood sugar so drastcally? > > Does it really? All I know is that rice sends my BG through the roof, > quite rapidly (if I don't compensate by taking enough insulin). It ABSOLUTELY does. Takes 2-3 days, and no cheating. Moderate (1-2) pieces of fruit, and I believe the original diet specified "citrus fruit". My choice is cantaloupe. I have done this myself, so it's not just hearsay. Main problem is that brown (and I assume white also) rice tastes like crap after a day or two. >>> Thanks. My question, however, is why does the "initial phase" of the >>> diet ... rice and fruit only, lower blood sugar so drastcally? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >just hearsay. Main problem is that brown (and I assume white also) rice >tastes like crap after a day or two. I would guess that you're a Type 2. As a Type 1, my ability to handle this diet would probably be different. Anyway, as to your initial question -- you would have to compare this diet to what you were eating before. One characteristic of rice and fruit is that they're normally cooked/served without the addition of much fat. If a carb dish has a lot of fat (such as fried potatoes, pizza, etc.) the absorption profile is very different from that of plain carbs, such as rice. The BG response to such a combination food is slow at first, but then the BG goes high and stays high for a long time. Rice would be expected to spike the BG immediately, but then it would return to normal much faster. When exactly are you testing? Also, awareness of a diet -- any diet -- might lead to stricter portion control. You may be eating fewer overall calories. > My question, however, is why does the "initial phase" of the > diet ... rice and fruit only, lower blood sugar so drastcally? After looking at the program, I'd say extreme portion control, hence the need for close medical supervision >Thanks. My question, however, is why does the "initial phase" of the >diet ... rice and fruit only, lower blood sugar so drastcally? the bg does not always follow the rules, but did you read it or test it with your own meter? >> Thanks. My question, however, is why does the "initial phase" of the >> diet ... rice and fruit only, lower blood sugar so drastcally? > > the bg does not always follow the rules, but did you read it or test > it with your own meter? tested with a one-touch meter Perhaps your diet prior to the Rice Diet was even higher in carbs. Instead of saying it "lowered" your BGs... what were the numbers? 1 hour post meals 2 hour post meals Fasting If you were at 250 and now are at 180, you're lower... but still not good. Jennifer >>> Thanks. My question, however, is why does the "initial phase" of the >>> diet ... rice and fruit only, lower blood sugar so drastcally? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > tested with a one-touch meter >tested with a one-touch meter I haven't tried rice yet, but I had some similar success with freshly ground cereals http://www.dr-schnitzer.de/introe1.html With three meals of the kind per day I did need only 20 units of insulin instead of the usual about 60. But the same apple I had needed 4 units of rapid acting insulin to cover before that trial did still want those 4 units during and after the trial. So that special kind of food did not lower my insulin resistance. It simply had no chance to release too much glucose within too short a time because it did not contain so much starchy or sugary stuff. And after 2 months I did not like the taste of it any longer :-( Hans, T2 since 1990, Germany Apidra & Lantus >>tested with a one-touch meter > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Hans, T2 since 1990, Germany >Apidra & Lantus As far as I am concerned Rice is just another food. AT one time I played the "special food" games. In the long run I noted that the assumed facts occurred n many situations. Most of it is "noise" unless a person has a sensitive to certain foods. Shell fish is a perfect diet food for me. In a few minutes my body tries to get rid of every thing in the digestive tract. A mess. Each person has to find his/her own story. Most touted foods are touted to make money even if it is at you expense-health wise.mc > >Thanks. My question, however, is why does the "initial phase" of the > >diet ... rice and fruit only, lower blood sugar so drastcally? > > the bg does not always follow the rules, but did you read it or test > it with your own meter? Why would we want to do that? All carbs = high BG.  SignatureSee my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm > > >Thanks. My question, however, is why does the "initial phase" of the > > >diet ... rice and fruit only, lower blood sugar so drastcally? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Why would we want to do that? All carbs = high BG. All carbs? Not necessarily. For me, my system handles whole grain brown rice quite well... http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates.html "White bread, for example, is converted almost immediately to blood sugar, causing it to spike rapidly. It's classified as having a high glycemic index. Brown rice, in contrast, is digested more slowly, causing a lower and more gentle change in blood sugar. It has a low glycemic index." Best, Kurt > All carbs? Not necessarily. For me, my system handles whole grain > brown rice quite well... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > causing a lower and more gentle change in blood sugar. It has a low > glycemic index." Maybe for you. For me, the glycemic index is worthless and I can't eat brown rice in any amount. I can eat small amounts of white rice mixed in with something. SignatureSee my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm > Maybe for you. For me, the glycemic index is worthless and I can't eat > brown rice in any amount. I can eat small amounts of white rice mixed in > with something. GI isn't worth anything to most folks, in terms of predicting bg response, only GL *may* do so. For me, any rice is as bad as white flour or sugar. And, IIRC, not brown rice, but white converted rice had the lowest GI in tests. Susan > Maybe for you. For me, the glycemic index is worthless and I can't eat > brown rice in any amount. I can eat small amounts of white rice mixed in > with something. Hi Julie, I do know what you are saying... Rice is killer for me, too. A few months ago, I was having this brown rice debate with myself, and I looked more closely at how the Glycemic Index people came up with the data for brown rice. Apparently, they used brown rice that was undercooked...Less than 15 minutes. Now, I do not know about anyone else, but I find brown rice to be too crunchy, when it is cooked for only 15 minutes... The best thing for me is to stay away from it totally, or at most, have only one or two bites.... for old times sake. Will, T2 Me too with potatoes. There is no such thing as a small amount to me, so I have to leave them alone completely. :-) -- Cheri wmmckee@cox.net wrote in message <1150064689_41283@sp6iad.superfeed.net>... >The best thing for me is to stay away from it totally, or at most, have only >one or two bites.... for old times sake. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups >----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- On 11-Jun-2006, Chief <Cheif@polyglot.com> wrote: > Ever try to enjoy a really good New > York strip while surrounded by strippers? An odd problem, as your sense > of taste battles with your senseless sense of sight. Hi Cheri, Potatoes are killer for me, too... I have to completely avoid them, or be prepared to pay the price. Same for bread, rice, cakes, pies, brownies, sodas, virtually anything with carbs... Although, I find crabs to be really enjoyable :-) Will, T2 I can eat some potato...but rice spikes me big time. jacquie > Me too with potatoes. There is no such thing as a small amount to me, so > I have to leave them alone completely. :-) [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >>----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption > =---- > > All carbs? Not necessarily. For me, my system handles whole grain > > brown rice quite well... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Maybe for you. Uh, yeah, that's why I said "for me"...:) Although I know of a number of diabetics who can eat a moderate portion of whole grain brown rice and not have it mess up their bg numbers. >For me, the glycemic index is worthless and I can't eat > brown rice in any amount. I can eat small amounts of white rice mixed in > with something. Have you ever eaten real organic whole grain brown rice? I only ask because what many people think is brown rice is really just white dirty rice. Whole grain brown rice takes about an hour to cook and has a very distinct almost nutty taste. Real brown rice usually gets put in the same category with white rice and other foods that behave much differently after they are eaten. Best, Kurt > Have you ever eaten real organic whole grain brown rice? I only ask > because what many people think is brown rice is really just white dirty > rice. Whole grain brown rice takes about an hour to cook and has a > very distinct almost nutty taste. Real brown rice usually gets put in > the same category with white rice and other foods that behave much > differently after they are eaten. Yep. That's the only kind I've tried. SignatureSee my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm >> Have you ever eaten real organic whole grain brown rice? I only ask >> because what many people think is brown rice is really just white dirty [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Yep. That's the only kind I've tried. Wild rice is kind to me, and I prefer its taste to any other kind. Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.4/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/73/72Kg This post not CC'd by email On 11 Jun 2006 16:51:00 -0700, "Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote: Julie said:- >>For me, the glycemic index is worthless and I can't eat >> brown rice in any amount. I can eat small amounts of white rice mixed in >> with something. G'day G'day Julie, One reason glycemic index might appear worthless to you is that rice is a very variable commodity. If one looks at a popular diet book that lists a single figure for white rice then one is likely to get a distorted impression. IMHO it is better to go to a source such as http://www.glycemicindex.com/ Click on GI database and enter rice as a search string. White rice boiled varies from 45 to 112. Long grain rice varies from 41 to 67 The type of starch makes a vast difference with specialty high amylose (28%) rice having a GI of 37 and low amylose rice having a GI of 137. Basmati rice has a GI of 58 In this brief discussion we haven't mentioned parboiling or the formation of resistant starch when rice is served cold as in sushi. Kurt said:- >Have you ever eaten real organic whole grain brown rice? I only ask >because what many people think is brown rice is really just white dirty [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Best, >Kurt Brown rice appears to have a GI that varies from 50 to 76. As I see it, we need individually to test the rice that is available to us personally. My situation is different now from what it was a couple of years ago and this has led me to experiment with options I wouldn't have considered then. One that I have liked is long grain red rice. It is like the black rice but decidedly cheaper. It strikes me that it fits the description you give for brown rice. I cooked the red rice with a local seaweed and that undoubtedly affected the average GI. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > G'day G'day Julie, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > red rice with a local seaweed and that undoubtedly affected the > average GI. I presume that parboiling = Minute Rice? I don't care for that at all. Never buy it. I like Basmati rice but that doesn't work for me. What does work is the cheap, store brand rice, the Asian kind of cheap long grain rice, or the pouches of pre-cooked rice sold by Trader Joes. You simply pop them in the microwave for a minute. They're not so tasty on their own. But I keep a few around for those times when we are sick. They are fine mixed in chicken broth or soup of some kind. I like wild rice too but it doesn't work well for me either unless I eat just a couple of bites. SignatureSee my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm > This post not CC'd by email > On 11 Jun 2006 16:51:00 -0700, "Kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Best wishes, Thanks for your learned (as usual) observations on this, Quentin. Best, Kurt : > All carbs? Not necessarily. For me, my system handles whole grain : > brown rice quite well... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] : > causing a lower and more gentle change in blood sugar. It has a low : > glycemic index." : Maybe for you. For me, the glycemic index is worthless and I can't eat : brown rice in any amount. I can eat small amounts of white rice mixed in : with something. Julie, yu do tolerate beans quite well and they are low GI carbs as well as the proteinetc they contain. Again, YMMV. Wendy > Julie, yu do tolerate beans quite well and they are low GI carbs as well > as the proteinetc they contain. Again, YMMV. Yep. Also potatoes, white bread and plain pasta. Whole grain bread, forget about it! Same with whole wheat pasta. Spike city! Oddly, the Surita whole wheat tortillas are fine but other brands spike me. SignatureSee my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm The "old school" approach to diabetic diets was low fat, and high carb focusing on whole grains, whole grain breads, cereals, fruit, beans and vegetables. Dr. Bernstein writes about being on a high carb diet as a young Type I diabetic and having to inject large amounts of insulin while suffering high blood sugars and the inevitable complications. Interestingly, his doctor who recommended this approach was the then president of the A.D.A. It wasn't until Berstein bought his own very expensive blood glucose meter and began testing himself that he realized there was a much healthier diet for himself and adopted dietary changes. He gradually recovered his lost health. You can read a condensed bio from the good doctor's book at the link below under "About Dr. Bernstein." http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/bernstein/ PS before insulin was discovered, the approach for Type I's was a starvation diet of 350 calories a day for children. Patients would look like concentration camp victims but their lives would be extended. That "old school" diet might work to some limited, mostly ineffective degree if calories are severely restricted and meals are very small and spaced out properly. As a Type II, if I were caught in a disaster of some sort and had no meds, insulin or meter, I would eat like a bird with tiny meals evenly spaced over time with maybe 2 hour intervals. I could probably survive on the Duke Diet. >> The Rice Diet is a low fat, low salt diet, which despite its name is >> not centered on rice. It was developed in the 1930s at Duke [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thanks. My question, however, is why does the "initial phase" of the diet > ... rice and fruit only, lower blood sugar so drastcally? This post not CC'd by email >Can someone please explain why the Duke Rice Diet program drops blood >sugar so drastically? It seems to me that 100% carbs (rice and fruit >initially) should do exactly the opposite. Thank you. G'day G'day Al, I puzzled over the Duke Rice Diet for a while. In the end I concluded it worked largely because it dropped calorie intake. Steamed rice has a high water content. My guess is this isn't a very exciting answer but it appears to be the basis of its success. Another feature to take into consideration is how people define success. Until one sees actual numbers for before and after going on to the Rice Diet a drop of 30 points in bg means nothing much. To take an example, some people might get excited with a drop from 200 to 170. Other people would only get excited that the first group of people got excited. For them they would have been hoping to drop a post prandial blood glucose from 150 to 120 and this wasn't going to happen. For many years people such as Pritikin pushing high carb diets loudly celebrated their success but when one looked at the figures one saw they were celebrating getting the fasting blood glucose down to figures like 120. When they first performed their experiments such figures were thought to be a success but now the goal posts have changed as more information has come to hand. Perhaps you have explained elsewhere in the thread what figures you are referring to with the comment "drops blood sugar so drastically" Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin |
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