Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / May 2006
Soluble fibre and LDL
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Quentin Grady - 27 May 2006 07:27 GMT G'day G'day Folks,
In the study described below some statin was replaced with psyllium, a good source of soluble fibre. Interestingly enough they didn't test out replacing all the statin with soluble fibre.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/505588_print
Medscape requires a registration but it is free and they are well behaved.
Best wishes,
 Signature Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
Uncle Enrico - 27 May 2006 15:38 GMT My cholesterol numbers have improved dramatically as I lost weight by increasing green vegetables, soy, flax and beans in my diet.
Here's a link to Dr. Sheldon Gottlieb's "Greens, Beans and Leans" diet . Gottlieb is a cardiologist and contributor to DLife. This diet takes awhile...so be patient.
By the way, Gottlieb is correct when he says that your body will adjust to the increased fiber where "gas" is concerned.
http://www.greensbeansandleans.com/
The diet is a pdf file. The site contains a link to get a free download of Adobe Reader if you need it.
> G'day G'day Folks, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Best wishes, Quentin Grady - 30 May 2006 07:28 GMT This post not CC'd by email On Sat, 27 May 2006 14:38:10 GMT, "Uncle Enrico" <Uncle@nospam.com> wrote:
>My cholesterol numbers have improved dramatically as I lost weight by >increasing green vegetables, soy, flax and beans in my diet. G'day G'day Uncle Enrico,
They sound like sensible choices. Glad you have enjoyed such success. Some people think the basic diet some of us advocate is vegetarian. It quite clearly isn't. Put simply, too many people ignore green vegetable including green beans.
> Here's a link to Dr. Sheldon Gottlieb's "Greens, Beans and Leans" diet . >Gottlieb is a cardiologist and contributor to DLife. This diet takes >awhile...so be patient. It is a good read. He has some excellent advice such as controlling sodium intake by avoiding packaged food. Much packaged food has salt as a flavour enhancer to increase consumption.
>By the way, Gottlieb is correct when he says that your body will adjust to >the increased fiber where "gas" is concerned. It does pay to make changes gradually. Some people get enthused with the concept of having more fibre in their diet and then suffer. They would avoid the problem if they took it slowly. I notice you mention having flax in your diet. This is an excellent source of fibre for T2 diabetics; two parts soluble fibre to one of insoluble fibre. The omega-3 fatty acid provided by flax, alpha linolenic acid can be converted to longer chain omega-3 fatty acids but the process is inefficient and it takes about two weeks for concentration of the right enzymes to do the conversion to build up. Just another example where it is import to make the changes gradually. IMHO, the conversion to longer chain omega-3 fatty acids is not important, though many people think it is, for stability of heart rhythms.
>http://www.greensbeansandleans.com/ > >The diet is a pdf file. The site contains a link to get a free download of >Adobe Reader if you need it. Thanks for posting Dr. Sheldon Gottlieb's "Greens, Beans and Leans" diet. Naturally there are a few minor details on which I might tentatively disagree but they are minor points. In practice what people are looking for is a diet to start them out in the right direction. IMHO he does that. Many people will notice a strong similarity with the various versions of the paleolithic diet.
Best wishes,
 Signature Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
Jenny - 30 May 2006 15:01 GMT I notice you mention
> having flax in your diet. This is an excellent source of fibre for T2 > diabetics; two parts soluble fibre to one of insoluble fibre. The [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > right enzymes to do the conversion to build up. Just another example > where it is import to make the changes gradually. Quentin,
There is one very important caveat about Flax seed which women need to be aware of. There are female hormonal mimics in Flax oil which can pose problems to those of us who are sensitive to progestins. I asked a woman who runs a university lab that investigates estrogen-like compounds about this some years ago, and she confirmed that it is known that flax contains female hormone mimics, but that no one at that time had done the work to find out exactly what the compounds are and what receptors they targeted. There is no funding to find that out, not so surprisingly, as it could have a negative impact on sales of this popular supplement.
I have a long history of problems where taking progestins in any form causes me to become weepy and depressed. If I keep taking them I'll start to bleed. I love flax seed and started eating it with my protein powder every morning. Sure enough within three weeks I was bursting into tears at anything and I also noticed that my estrogen production was way down, negatively affecting sexual response.
A week after cutting out all flax, the problem resolved. I had had the same kind of problem with flax oil causing weepiness, but it developed much more swiftly. Now I know I can't use the flax seed very often, either.
This effect of flax would be important to anyone who has had a hormone-sensitive cancer or who has a history of hormone sensitivity. If you can't handle progestins, stay away from Flax!
--Jenny
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes Diabetes Info
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood Sugar Under Control
Quentin Grady - 30 May 2006 20:06 GMT This post not CC'd by email On Tue, 30 May 2006 10:01:45 -0400, Jenny <lottadata@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I notice you mention >> having flax in your diet. This is an excellent source of fibre for T2 [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >be aware of. There are female hormonal mimics in Flax oil which can pose >problems to those of us who are sensitive to progestins. G'day G'day Jenny,
Maryon Stewart who wrote "The Phyto Factor" back in 1998 named the phytolignans which could be converted to mammalian lignans as Secoisolaricirssnol (SSCO) and Matairesinol. While they are present in other seeds eg soy and pumpkin, only in flax do they reach extremely high levels.
> I asked a >woman who runs a university lab that investigates estrogen-like [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >surprisingly, as it could have a negative impact on sales of this >popular supplement. There has been little funding though I think the reasons are different from those you hypothesise. The flax industry is small, especially in comparison to the soy industry, on an international scale only achieving importance in Canada.
>I have a long history of problems where taking progestins in any form >causes me to become weepy and depressed. If I keep taking them I'll >start to bleed. Secoisolaricirssnol and matairesinol appear to me to estrogen mimics not progesterone mimics. Needless to say your understanding of female hormones is likely to be much better than mine.
>I love flax seed and started eating it with my protein >powder every morning. Sure enough within three weeks I was bursting into >tears at anything and I also noticed that my estrogen production was way >down, negatively affecting sexual response. I think you are making an important and perfectly valid point. Flax is a highly concentrated source of the phytolignans. Most Western diets these days probably suffer from a lack of phytolignans. However it would be all too easy to shift to a diet that has an excess of phytolignans if one consumes flax in quantity.
>A week after cutting out all flax, the problem resolved. I had had the >same kind of problem with flax oil causing weepiness, but it developed >much more swiftly. Now I know I can't use the flax seed very often, either. I'm glad you didn't dismiss the symptoms as imagination. T2 diabetics often find themselves at risk with their diets. They want to avoid the errors of the past and so make changes. Some of them will be wise, some not so wise. Fortunately you changed one thing at a time and took note of what happened. One solution I see to this problem is not to invent a new diet or to supplement the existing diet but rather to search amongst existing diets. Let ideas be tested by a whole culture before experimenting on yourself.
>This effect of flax would be important to anyone who has had a >hormone-sensitive cancer or who has a history of hormone sensitivity. >If you can't handle progestins, stay away from Flax! Definitely. Treat flax with respect because it does contain high concentrations of precursors for mammalian lignans with estrogen mimicking properties. For some people this will be just what they need, for others it will be just what they don't. Caution makes sense.
>--Jenny > >http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes Diabetes Info > >http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood >Sugar Under Control Best wishes,
 Signature Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
Jenny - 30 May 2006 21:59 GMT > Secoisolaricirssnol and matairesinol appear to me to estrogen mimics > not progesterone mimics. Needless to say your understanding of female > hormones is likely to be much better than mine. My experience with a variety of prescription hormone pills over the years has been that progesterone is what makes me weepy. It is also the hormone that rises at the end of the month and seems to be associated with pre-menstrual depression, hunger, higher blood sugars and general all around misery.
Estradiol in pill form doesn't impact my mood at all. But that is just one estrogen and there are others. My one experiment with Tri-est, a form of three estrogens led to my blood sugars leaping up to 200 mg/dl and my blood pressure going crazy too, so one pill was all I ever tried.
So you might be correct that the substances in flax mimic an estrogen, rather than progesterone. Whatever the explanation, I would hope that anyone reading this would take away the idea that the stuff is some kind of hormone and can impact mood and cancer cells in women who are hormone sensitive. Men taking it who start growing breasts or wanting to have long talks about their relationships with their significant other, might also consider if they're taking too much flax. <g>
My significant other took one sniff of the flax oil and said, "I used to paint walls with this stuff, why are you eating it?"
It's a shame though, as my blood sugar liked it and so did the digestive tract.
>> --Jenny >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Best wishes,
 Signature --Jenny
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes Diabetes Info
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood Sugar Under Control
Quentin Grady - 31 May 2006 02:37 GMT This post not CC'd by email On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:59:37 -0400, Jenny <lottadata@hotmail.com> wrote:
>My significant other took one sniff of the flax oil and said, "I used to >paint walls with this stuff, why are you eating it?" G'day G'day Jenny,
Your significant other might say that but of course it isn't true. Repeating such claims is an unintentional calumny.
There are very important health regulation reasons why flaxseed oil for culinary purposes isn't labeled linseed oil. Linseed oil is prepared by boiling the oil taken from crushed linseed. This produces a highly toxic substance which must never, never be eaten. When linseed is used for the production of flaxseed oil, the conditions are utterly different. The temperature is carefully controlled. The atmosphere is inert. Light is excluded. The oil is packaged in light proof containers and should be kept in a refrigerator. Put simply, linseed oil used to paint walls is a vastly different substance from flaxseed oil used nutritionally.
Best wishes,
 Signature Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
Jenny - 31 May 2006 14:51 GMT > This post not CC'd by email > On Tue, 30 May 2006 16:59:37 -0400, Jenny <lottadata@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >> My significant other took one sniff of the flax oil and said, "I used to >> paint walls with this stuff, why are you eating it?" Put simply,
> linseed oil used to paint walls is a vastly different substance from > flaxseed oil used nutritionally. They do smell the same. I'd noticed that too.
--Jenny
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes Diabetes Info
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood Sugar Under Control
David R. Throop - 31 May 2006 05:02 GMT >My significant other took one sniff of the flax oil and said, "I used to >paint walls with this stuff, why are you eating it?" The linseed oil used as a drying agent has had metal salts added to it to speed the oxidation process. That's why oily rags with linseed oil are a fire hazard, but a napkin soaked with Barlean's Flax Oil isn't a danger.
DRT.
Elizabeth Blake - 30 May 2006 22:19 GMT > I think you are making an important and perfectly valid point. Flax is > a highly concentrated source of the phytolignans. Most Western diets > these days probably suffer from a lack of phytolignans. However it > would be all too easy to shift to a diet that has an excess of > phytolignans if one consumes flax in quantity. Quentin,
Do you know what the recommended intake of flax is? I have a bag of flax seeds that I use in my yogurt, cottage cheese, oatmeal and similar foods when I have them. I grind 1 tablespoon at a time and rarely do I have more than 1T a day. I have not had any weird side effects from it. I was just wondering if there was a recommended amount to take each day. Last month my CDE told me I could stop taking Lipitor because my cholesterol was down, and I don't want to go back on it. I started with the flax after reading that it was good for cholesterol, it's natural and I like the taste/texture of the stuff in my food!
 Signature Liz Type 1 dx 4/1987 MM Paradigm 5/2005
Quentin Grady - 31 May 2006 02:26 GMT This post not CC'd by email On Tue, 30 May 2006 17:19:37 -0400, "Elizabeth Blake" <poodlebone@NOSPAMearthlink.net> wrote:
>> I think you are making an important and perfectly valid point. Flax is >> a highly concentrated source of the phytolignans. Most Western diets [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Do you know what the recommended intake of flax is? G'day G'day Liz,
There isn't a recommended intake. No one has to eat flax seed or defatted flax fibre or flax oil. There is however a GRAS, Generally Recommended As Safe level. It takes a bit of looking up on the net.
The FDA has indicated that it has no objection to its use in foods up to 12% flax. In trials men have been given 50 grams/day in muffins without ill effects.
>I have a bag of flax >seeds that I use in my yogurt, cottage cheese, oatmeal and similar foods >when I have them. I grind 1 tablespoon at a time and rarely do I have more >than 1T a day. I have not had any weird side effects from it. One wouldn't expect you to at this low level.
> I was just wondering if there was a recommended amount to take each day.
> Last month my CDE told me I could stop taking Lipitor because my cholesterol > was down, and I don't want to go back on it. I started with the flax after > reading that it was good for cholesterol, it's natural and I like the > taste/texture of the stuff in my food! The best results are probably obtained with whole flaxseed that has been crush or ground to give defatted flaxseed fibre.
Best wishes,
 Signature Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
Elizabeth Blake - 31 May 2006 05:14 GMT > G'day G'day Liz, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to 12% flax. In trials men have been given 50 grams/day in muffins > without ill effects. I'm taking well below that amount. I don't want to overdo it, but I do want to take enough to get some benefit from it.
> The best results are probably obtained with whole flaxseed that has > been crush or ground to give defatted flaxseed fibre. I just put the whole seeds into a small coffee grinder, pulse it a bit, and then dump it into my oatmeal, cottage cheese etc. I've read it's best if they're ground fresh, so I keep the seeds in the fridge and grind some whenever I want them.
 Signature Liz Type 1 dx 4/1987 Minimed Paradigm 715 5/2005
Quentin Grady - 31 May 2006 07:37 GMT This post not CC'd by email On Wed, 31 May 2006 04:14:31 GMT, "Elizabeth Blake" <poodlebone@spamless.earthlink.net> wrote:
>> G'day G'day Liz, >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >they're ground fresh, so I keep the seeds in the fridge and grind some >whenever I want them. G'day G'day Liz,
That seems like a sensible approach. The whole flax freshly ground is much safer IMHO than flaxseed oil.
Best wishes,
 Signature Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
italiangm - 31 May 2006 02:47 GMT > Treat flax with respect because it does contain high > concentrations of precursors for mammalian lignans with estrogen > mimicking properties. For some people this will be just what they > need, for others it will be just what they don't. Caution makes > sense. Agreed. There are a few cautions out there for men regarding flax, less so in seed form, but flaxseed oil was definitely implicated. Apparently there's concern that flaxseed, and oil extracted from them, can stimulate prostate cancer. The question is whether it initiates prostate cancer, or stimulates reproduction of existing prostate cancer cells into a more advanced state.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/1/204 http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/12/3385 http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/12/3386
Quentin Grady - 31 May 2006 07:35 GMT This post not CC'd by email On 30 May 2006 18:47:42 -0700, "italiangm" <italiangm@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Treat flax with respect because it does contain high >> concentrations of precursors for mammalian lignans with estrogen [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/12/3385 >http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/12/3386 G'day G'day Italiangm,
You may notice that I don't advocate flaxseed oil though I sometimes give defatted flaxseed fibre a favourable mention for its protein, blend of soluble and insoluble fibre etc.
The research you point to is the major reason why I don't advocate flaxseed oil. To me flaxseed oil is risky like most overly refined products. The refining creates an imbalance and the imbalance creates a risk.
However like many stories, the connection between flax and prostate cancer is not a simple one. When men eat whole flaxseed freshly ground or defatted flaxseed fibre it appears they benefit. Their rate of prostate cancer decreases. In those countries where men get phytolignans from their food eg seaweed there are lower rates of prostate cancer or the cancer progresses so slowly that they grow old and die from other causes before the prostate cancer strikes. Far from worrying about husbands and significant other males singing with high pitched voices, it would make more sense to worry whether they are getting sufficient phytolignans to avoid prostate cancer. There are other sources of phytolignans eg pumpkin seed, besides whole crushed flaxseed but they are not nearly as concentrated.
Vastly more money is spent on breast cancer research for women than is spent on prostate cancer for men although they have similar morbidity rates.
The writer of the following may be a bit optimistic as people tend to be when they think they are on to something new, never the less it does present a different point of view.
http://www.youngagain2000.com/flaxhulls.html
The serious researchers in the field are very cautious with publishing their findings. They know how quickly finding can be taken out of context,and published before a case is proven. As best I can gather the safe bet is whole crushed flaxseed at rates less than the GRAS level.
Best wishes,
 Signature Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
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