Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / October 2003
Insuline pomps
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caroline.crouzat - 11 Oct 2003 09:40 GMT Hello,
I am treated by Insulin, and I wonder about using a pomp. What are the advantages and disadvantages ? How can give me a comparison ?
Thanks for your answers,
Caroline
Bay Area Dave - 11 Oct 2003 17:17 GMT do a search on misc.health.diabetes. I've written plenty on the advantages of pumping.
here is ONE of the thread titles: "What makes a good candidate for "da Pump'?"
Here's another one: "Pumps: better A1C's or just more convenient?"
the only downside might be cost if you don't have insurance to cover all or most of the cost. A Minimed pump is $6,000.
dave
> Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Caroline J.C. Hartmann - 11 Oct 2003 18:13 GMT > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Caroline Try http://www.insulin-pumpers.org/
Jim
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Juan Antonio - 12 Oct 2003 01:10 GMT Hi there,
Briefly, an insulin pump saves you having the inconvenience and pain of multiple daily injections. For me, it also saves the blood stain on my T-shirts from the injection. With a pump, you insert a catheter every 3 days, so it is like 1 injection every 3 days.
I know some here will argue with this, but the medical research has shown that there isn't much difference in control with a pump versus using a long acting insulin like Lantus with multiple daily injections of Humalog.
My advice to you is to really explore the options for pumps that are available. Don't get the one that your doctor likes, get the one that you like. I chose the Minimed pump because I like the shape, it looks like a pager, not some medical device like the others. And it wears well on my waist. Also, be careful about choosing between different models like the Minimed Paradigm and 508. The Paradigm is newer and I thought would be an improvement over the 508, but it's really not. I like the 508 better. If you want more details on why, let me know.
The Paradigm recently came out with a link to a blood glucose monitor. When used together, the pump will recommend how much insulin to take. On the surface, this seems ideal, but when examined a little deeper, it takes away the control from the user because you either have to accept the pump's recommendation each time you check your blood glucose or not accept it. Totally. There is no in between where you can say, modify the dosage recommendation slightly according to your own preferences.
Also, there are many types of infusion sets. I like the Silhouette because it has a small, teflon catheter that stays under the skin, and can be disconnected without leaving anything hanging loose, like some of them. I recommend that, if you do get a pump, that you try all of the infusion sets at least twice before deciding on which one you want to use long term. I say twice because there is always a learning curve with insertion of each type, so trying it twice will give you a chance to really get to know how it feels.
-- Antonio Age 37, Type 1 for 10 years On Insulin Pump
> Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Caroline Bay Area Dave - 12 Oct 2003 03:05 GMT my comments are inline...
> Hi there, > > Briefly, an insulin pump saves you having the inconvenience and pain of > multiple daily injections. For me, it also saves the blood stain on my > T-shirts from the injection. With a pump, you insert a catheter every 3 > days, so it is like 1 injection every 3 days. it's not a catheter! Some folks change sets every couple of days. Some folks take so much insulin, they HAVE to change every two days.
> I know some here will argue with this, but the medical research has shown > that there isn't much difference in control with a pump versus using a long > acting insulin like Lantus with multiple daily injections of Humalog. Bullcrap. Basal requirement vary through out the day and a long acting insulin can't cover that. Nor can a long acting insulin be put on "hold" when you need to exercise. The Dawn Phenomenon is handled adroitly by a pump; not by MDI, and ESPECIALLY not by a long acting insulin.
> My advice to you is to really explore the options for pumps that are > available. Don't get the one that your doctor likes, get the one that you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > improvement over the 508, but it's really not. I like the 508 better. If > you want more details on why, let me know. You have to work with your doctor. if the doctor doesn't "like" the one you do, ask WHY. I agree with you on the 508. My wife has the Paradigm and I prefer my 508.
> The Paradigm recently came out with a link to a blood glucose monitor. When > used together, the pump will recommend how much insulin to take. On the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Totally. There is no in between where you can say, modify the dosage > recommendation slightly according to your own preferences. Nobody is gonna force you to use the monitor in conjunction with your pump. Using the monitor with the 512 Paradigm is merely an option.
> Also, there are many types of infusion sets. I like the Silhouette because > it has a small, teflon catheter that stays under the skin, and can be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > type, so trying it twice will give you a chance to really get to know how it > feels. On this topic, I agree; try various types of sets.
dave
Juan Antonio - 13 Oct 2003 00:49 GMT Well DAVE, I was just trying to be helpful. You didn't have to jump all over my comments by calling them "bullcrap". Be a little more polite please and less dogmatic. What works for you and your wife may not work for/apply to everyone.
Ok, I stand corrected on one thing. Not all infusion sets use catheters, but the one I use, the Silhouette, DOES. Yes, it's called a CATHETER. (If you read the article below, they refer to it as a CATHETER site infection.)
For a discussion of insulin pumps versus multiple daily injections, read this, and develop your own opinion. (I agree that for SOME, the pump is superior therapy, but not for ALL.)
The Role of Insulin Pumps Posted 03/13/2003
from Medscape Diabetes & Endocrinology
Question Ever since the introduction of insulin glargine (Lantus; Aventis Pharmaceuticals Inc. Kansas City, Missouri), many of my patients have noticed a significant improvement in their diabetes control. I'm wondering if there is much of a need for insulin pumps any longer?
Response from M. James Lenhard, MD, 03/13/2003
In 1993, the Diabetes Control and Complications Trial (DCCT) definitively showed that achieving and maintaining glucose values as close to normal as possible in people with type 1 diabetes will prevent the development and slow the progression of microvascular complications. In the years following the release of the DCCT, there was a rapid increase in the number of prescriptions for insulin pumps. Continuous subcutaneous insulin infusion (CSII) continued to become increasingly common throughout the 1990s. CSII allows the user to program increases or decreases in insulin infusion based on patterns or perceived needs. In addition to providing multiple programmable basal rates, CSII allows the user to choose from several "types" of mealtime boluses. The insulin can be delivered quickly or stretched out over a protracted time in an attempt to mimic the normal pancreatic secretion of insulin.
In 2000, insulin glargine was approved for use as a basal insulin. It has become very popular for patients with type 1 diabetes. Studies have suggested that the basal insulin profile obtained from glargine is superior to NPH or Ultralente insulin, with a reduction in the incidence of hypoglycemia.[1] Many patients have reported significant success with glargine, and it has been dubbed the "poor man's pump." So which method is optimal?
Unfortunately, there are no long-term studies comparing CSII with glargine. It would appear that for many patients with type 1 diabetes, there is little compelling reason to use anything other than glargine to supply basal insulin. Cost, availability on formularies, the inability to mix it with other kinds of insulin, and rare adverse reactions may lead some patients to stick with NPH, but for the majority, glargine will be superior.
Over the last 2 decades numerous studies have shown that CSII helped to achieve the goal of maintaining glucose levels as close to the normal range as is safely possible. Many studies compared CSII to conventional therapy (ie, 2 split and mixed injections per day). The best comparisons between CSII and standard insulin injections are studies using multiple daily injections (MDI). There are several advantages and disadvantages of CSII.[2]
Advantages of CSII Glycemic control: Most studies have shown that CSII provides as good and often better glycemic control than does intensive diabetes management with MDI. Most studies suggest that the improvement is modest. For example, 1 study of 107 patients with type 1 diabetes treated with MDI that were switched to CSII had a decline in the mean HbA1c from 7.6 to 7.1%.[3]
Hypoglycemia: The reduction in the variability of glucose levels and severe hypoglycemia may be reduced as much as 4-fold with CSII in comparison with MDI, with no discernible reduction in glycemic control. This decrease in hypoglycemic events has been accompanied by an increase in self-reported warning symptoms of hypoglycemia, as well as by an increase in counterregulatory hormonal responses to hypoglycemia. Severe hypoglycemia has now become an accepted indication for initiation of CSII therapy, and may be the greatest advantage offered by CSII. Other metabolic factors and diabetes complications: CSII has been shown to cause improvement or slowing of diabetic nephropathy, peripheral and autonomic neuropathy, retinopathy, hypertriglyceridemia and hypoalphalipoproteinemia, and diabetic changes in transplanted kidneys.
Lifestyle flexibility: The improvement in lifestyle may be the most important reason for the patient who chooses CSII. The ability to increase flexibility in moment-to-moment living is the reason most frequently cited by individuals who have chosen CSII. The increased flexibility that is allowed may be fueling the upsurge in patient demand for CSII more than any other factor.
Disadvantages of CSII As recently as 1990, some authorities[4] asserted that "the use of CSII is discouraged in routine clinical practice," suggesting instead that it be limited to specific subsets of patients with type 1 diabetes. There are several potential disadvantages of CSII.
Diabetic ketoacidosis: There is no subcutaneous depot of long-acting insulin with CSII. If the flow of the regular, short-acting insulin is interrupted, ketonemia and diabetic ketoacidosis can develop more rapidly and more frequently with CSII.
Hypoglycemia: Although hypoglycemia is generally less common with CSII than with MDI, proper use of the insulin pump requires the user to monitor glucose frequently and to work with the diabetes team to program the appropriate basal infusion rates. Without patient cooperation, hypoglycemia may occur.
Catheter-site infection and contact dermatitis: The most common complication associated with CSII is infection at the infusion site. This is one of the most common causes listed for discontinuation of CSII, but most cases can be prevented with close attention to hygiene.
Special Situations In addition to the advantages and disadvantages listed, there are several special situations where CSII may be preferred. Some children and adolescents have improved acceptance of their diabetes and better glycemic control when CSII is used. Pregnant women with type 1 diabetes may find less variability in their blood glucose levels. People with type 1 diabetes who engage in regular vigorous exercise often appreciate the ability to control their insulin infusion very precisely.
The key to success with CSII involves the appropriate selection and training of individuals. For the successful use of CSII, a skilled and motivated health care delivery team is required, and a thorough evaluation and training of the CSII candidate is necessary prior to implementation. There is also a need for on-going close contact between the pump user and the health care team. For many patients, the disadvantages and costs of CSII outweigh the advantages. In this group, MDI using insulin glargine may prove to be equally effective.
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References 1.. Ratner RE, Hirsch IB, Neifing JL, Garg SK, Mecca TE, Wilson CA. Less hypoglycemia with insulin glargine in intensive insulin therapy for type 1 diabetes: US Study Group of Insulin Glargine in Type 1 Diabetes. Diabetes Care. 2000; 23:639-643. Abstract 2.. Lenhard MJ, Reeves GD. Continuous subcutaneous insulin infusion: a comprehensive review of insulin pump therapy. Arch Intern Med. 2001;161:2293-2300. Abstract 3.. Rudolph JW, Hirsch IB. Assessment of therapy with continuos subcutaneous insulin infusion in an academic diabetes clinic. Endocr Pract. 2002;8:401-405. 4.. Selam J-L, Charles MA. Devices for insulin administration. Diabetes Care. 1990;13:955-979. Abstract About the Panel Members M. James Lenhard, MD, Medical Director, Weight Management Program, Preventative Medicine and Rehabilitation Institute and Chief, Section of Endocrinology, Christiana Care Health Systems, Wilmington, Delaware.
-- Antonio Age 37, Type 1 for 10 years On Insulin Pump
> my comments are inline... > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > dave Mack - 13 Oct 2003 21:43 GMT >Well DAVE, I was just trying to be helpful. You didn't have to jump all >over my comments by calling them "bullcrap". Be a little more polite please [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >but the one I use, the Silhouette, DOES. Yes, it's called a CATHETER. (If >you read the article below, they refer to it as a CATHETER site infection.) medscape needs top correct their article. it's called a "canula".
Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.
>For a discussion of insulin pumps versus multiple daily injections, read >this, and develop your own opinion. (I agree that for SOME, the pump is [quoted text clipped - 137 lines] >Preventative Medicine and Rehabilitation Institute and Chief, Section of >Endocrinology, Christiana Care Health Systems, Wilmington, Delaware. Bay Area Dave - 14 Oct 2003 02:28 GMT After looking up the definition of cannula (canula - alt spelling) and catheter, an on-line dictionary fails to distinguish the two terms. So I will grant that someone IS using catheter instead of the more commonly used term cannula to describe the same flexible tube that enters the body for infusion of insulin. Fair? I still find "catheter" to be a bit misleading, but that's just my personal opinion.
Calm DOWN, Juan! I didn't call ALL your comments bullcrap. just the part that you yourself expected to receive an argument about! <g> I wasn't attacking your character--I'm just said "bullcrap" to your "fact" about long lasting insulin (plus Humalog) giving just as good control as a pump. That is unadulterated BS! I don't give a flying rats butt WHAT you quote to "substantiate" that claim, but I'll tell you right out, that is a crock. Some people MAY get as good an A1c as with using a pump, but other folks would never be able to duplicate such wonderful results using MDI. I'm one of those who MUST have predictable, variable basal rates. After re-reading your post, I see we really agree on the overall significance of their claim--that SOME folks can get reasonable control on MDI.
dave
> Well DAVE, I was just trying to be helpful. You didn't have to jump all > over my comments by calling them "bullcrap". Be a little more polite please [quoted text clipped - 256 lines] >> >>dave Juan Antonio - 14 Oct 2003 03:07 GMT Hi Dave,
Thanks for the correction. I'm sorry if I got too defensive, but I knew that there would be differing opinions. I was merely trying to state that pumps aren't the best for everyone. It really is a YMMV thing.
Take good care and I'll see you in the newsgroup.
Antonio
-- Antonio Age 37, Type 1 for 10 years On Insulin Pump
> After looking up the definition of cannula (canula - alt spelling) and > catheter, an on-line dictionary fails to distinguish the two terms. So [quoted text clipped - 278 lines] > >> > >>dave Bay Area Dave - 14 Oct 2003 03:14 GMT Sure! I agree wholeheartedly that pumps aren't for everyone. Conversely, for SOME, they are LITERALLY a life saver. I mean that in the strictest sense. Take care!
dave
> Hi Dave, > [quoted text clipped - 456 lines] >>>> >>>>dave Mack - 13 Oct 2003 21:40 GMT >Hi there, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >that there isn't much difference in control with a pump versus using a long >acting insulin like Lantus with multiple daily injections of Humalog. that depends on the individual. It is an Extremely YMMV topic.
>My advice to you is to really explore the options for pumps that are >available. Don't get the one that your doctor likes, get the one that you [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Totally. There is no in between where you can say, modify the dosage >recommendation slightly according to your own preferences. that's not the way I read the literature. The pumper still has control and can give a bolus he/she decides to.
>Also, there are many types of infusion sets. I like the Silhouette because >it has a small, teflon catheter that stays under the skin, and can be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >type, so trying it twice will give you a chance to really get to know how it >feels. very good advice. hopefully the doctor will also have access to a pump trainer, either one on staff or one from the pump company. These trainers usually keep extra infusion sets and serter devices for each type to allow the individual the ability to decide what's best.
Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.
Mack - 13 Oct 2003 21:35 GMT >Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Caroline best bet is to go to http://www.insulin-pumpers.org and ask your questions there and visit the links there to all the current insulin pump maker's web sites to see what their features are. Because of the high cost of pumps and supplies, insulin pumping requires good insurance coverage.
Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.
John Lindberg - 14 Oct 2003 23:01 GMT >Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Caroline Caroline--the response to your question was sidetracked by an personal exchange. The reference to www.insulin-pumpers.org is good, but from a personal perspective:
I have been on insulin since age 3 (diagnosed in 1959). Over the years, I have had one injection a day (Lente and Regular), two injections a day (Regular and NPH), four injections a day (Lantus and Humalog). I went on a pump a year ago, and find it to be preferable to any of the above regimes.
1. The pump makes it possible to take insulin at meals, unobtrusively. The meal comes, I poke a couple of buttons on the pump, and I eat. As opposed to estimating the amount needed for an injection before a meal is served (especially at a restaurant or as a guest at someone's home), miscalculating, and then having to remedy with a second injection or additional food. And taking the injection in the presence of others tends to make other rather uncomfortable.
2. I find that with the pump, I feel that I can control my diet better. I lost 30 unneeded pounds in six months. With injections, I was always eating to balance the insulin I had taken. With lower weight, I am using less insulin to balance carbohydrates, and I do feel better--somewhat more energetic.
3. I was forced, by switching to the pump, to take more control over my diet, exercise, and diabetes.
4. My HbgA1C reading before the pump: 8.3. Since the pump, between 6 and 7. I was having symptoms of neuropathy, but those have disappeared since switching.
5. Something that I did not know before switching: absorbtion rates for long-acting insulins can vary significantly from day to day. I showed dramatic variability before, and far less now using the pump.
On the negative side:
1. The cost:of pumps, unless covered by insurance are expensive, and the infusion sets and other materials are relatively expensive.
2. You are attached to something 24/7; some find this a nuisance.
Given a choice, would I make the switch again? Yes. But I would carefully consider the pump maker--I am not particularly pleased with the service that Medtronic/Minimed has shown to me in the last six months, and I may well look at other manufacturers.
Bay Area Dave - 15 Oct 2003 03:06 GMT John, would you care to elaborate about the poor MM service? I'm ticked at them due to their response to my questions about the flap over the Paradigm no longer being considered watertight. I have a 508 and my wife has the Paradigm. There attitude is "too bad, so sad". I'm waiting for a class action suit to develop over this...
dave
>>Hello, >> [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > the service that Medtronic/Minimed has shown to me in the last six > months, and I may well look at other manufacturers.
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