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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / April 2006I tried acupuncture today...
You guys will probably think I'm nuts but I figured "what the hell, nothing else has worked on the shakes so far" and went for it. I didn't expect it to fix the actual bg swings, but maybe help with feeling the smaller ones so bad. Friends of mine have done it for pain and it's worked for them. I've never tried it before, and kind of thought it was bull, but it's amazing what you'll try in desperation :lol:. ----------------Pincushion report, skip if detail bores you ------------------------------------------------------ It was interesting, and it did....something.... though I'm not entirely sure what yet. While I was lying there with the needles in, trying to relax and keep my head empty and eyes shut, I had some physical things happen (electrical "zotting" in my feet and head and this odd sort of movement across my abdomen that wasn't gas) and some VERY weird inside-my-head visuals. It was like I was falling down this dark tunnel filled with stars, in my head. It was still going on when he came back to take the needles out. When I came out of there I felt distinctly stoned :lol: and noticed that my eyesight was a lot better than when I went in. I have no idea why. I also had some genuine hunger pangs that have been MIA for weeks (shakes have replaced them). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So far this PM I still have some shakes post-eating, but don't seem as bad as they have been. Could be coincidence, maybe not, but I'll take it, for now. LQ > You guys will probably think I'm nuts but I figured "what the hell, > nothing else has worked on the shakes so far" and went for it. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > (electrical "zotting" in my feet and head and this odd sort of > movement across my abdomen that wasn't gas) and some VERY weird > inside-my-head visuals. It was like I was falling down this dark > tunnel filled with stars, in my head. It was still going on when he > came back to take the needles out. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > So far this PM I still have some shakes post-eating, but don't seem as > bad as they have been. Could be coincidence, maybe not, but I'll take > it, for now. I used to have it for migraine, didn't help the migraine but the experience was calming but then again that could have been because the Chinese can create calmness. Perhaps it had a calming effect on you and helped with any adrenaline rushes you might be getting that could be adding to the RH experiences. > I used to have it for migraine, didn't help the migraine but > the experience was calming but then again that could have > been because the Chinese can create calmness. Perhaps it had > a calming effect on you and helped with any adrenaline > rushes you might be getting that could be adding to the RH > experiences. I was a total skeptic when I turned to acupuncture as a last resort for pain relief many years ago; I had the same experience LQ had. Not only did my sciatica (and later, sinus headache and infection) pain go away, but I'd feel so mellow and relaxed yet still energetic when I left. Turned me into a believer. Susan It still may be coincidence, but while I woke up about 4 times last night the shakes weren't as bad, and my slightly shaky fasting at 5:30 AM this morning was 10 pts lower than it's been running all week. Heck, even if it's just suggestion I'll take it. But I went in there not really believing in it and stuff happened anyway. The mellowness was nice - almost worth the price of admission even without a fix for the shakes! LQ > It still may be coincidence, but while I woke up about 4 times last > night the shakes weren't as bad, and my slightly shaky fasting at 5:30 > AM this morning was 10 pts lower than it's been running all week. Have you also taken some hits from your steroid inhaler? > Heck, even if it's just suggestion I'll take it. But I went in there > not really believing in it and stuff happened anyway. > > The mellowness was nice - almost worth the price of admission even > without a fix for the shakes! I agree, that was an unexpected surprise, along with the pain relief I got. Susan > Have you also taken some hits from your steroid inhaler? I think I had one yesterday AM. I'm trying to minimize what I take of it, after learning that it could be contributing to my problem. I'm only taking one hit a day, max, now and try to avoid it if I can. If I use the albuterol more than 2x a day I figure I need another hit off the steroid one. My asthma has been so much better since changing my diet that I hardly use either inhaler anymore. The exception is during outdoor exercise when it's cold - my lungs still don't like that much. LQ >>Have you also taken some hits from your steroid inhaler? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > use the albuterol more than 2x a day I figure I need another hit off > the steroid one. That one hit per day may also be contributing to not feeling as shaky. > My asthma has been so much better since changing my diet that I hardly > use either inhaler anymore. The exception is during outdoor exercise > when it's cold - my lungs still don't like that much. Anecdotally, I've heard that from a lot of low carbers; any inflammatory condition seems to be helped by lower sugar, lower insulin circulating. I know that insulin is closely associated with inflammatory processes, involving cytokines, IIRC. Susan >Anecdotally, I've heard that from a lot of low carbers; any inflammatory >condition seems to be helped by lower sugar, lower insulin circulating. > I know that insulin is closely associated with inflammatory processes, >involving cytokines, IIRC. > >Susan That has been my experience, Susan. Ever since I went low carb, my inflammations have diminished immensely. That was when I began making real progress especially, with the bad shoulder... Will, T2 > That has been my experience, Susan. Ever since I went low carb, my > inflammations have diminished immensely. That was when I began making > real progress especially, with the bad shoulder... > > Will, T2 Good! My fibromyalgia disappeared overnight the day after I cut out starch and sugar. It had never been a significant feature of my illness til I became severely IR, and it'd gotten really bad. Now I understand what folks with chronic FMS go through; it hurt just to be sitting in the passenger seat of a car making a turn. :-/ I hadn;t had it for long, thankfully. Susan wrote in message news:49ldgcFpjekaU1@individual.net... > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Susan Wish my fibromyalgia would disappear. Mine flaired up with the dx of diabetes. It got worse and has not improved much. Hard as heck to do housework or anything else. Also have my right thigh down to my knee that goes ice cold and numb if I am on it for too long. Takes me 2 hours to go grocery shopping as I have to stop and sit down all the time. Can't use the motorized shopping cart or the wheelchair carts as all the food will not fit into them, and I shop alone. If I bring my son I end up getting things we do not need.  SignatureSuzi A1c 6.4 T2 DX 10/2002 Glucophage 2 x 1000mg Lipitor 20mg (3 days a week), Enalapril 20mg 30 minutes walks 7 days a week "Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> Ow, that sounds awful. Have you ever tried acupuncture for it? I don't know if it would work or not but it may be worth a try if nothing else is working. I'm all for throwing everything at a problem and seeing what sticks :lol: . An idea about the shopping carts -do they have anything on the back of the motorized/wheelchair ones that you could tie a regular cart to? I was thinking you could bring a bungee cord or something with you and hitch the regular cart to the back of the motorized one like a trailer. I don't know if the motorized ones have enough horsepower to pull a loaded cart but it might be worth a try.... LQ > Ow, that sounds awful. Have you ever tried acupuncture for it? I don't > know if it would work or not but it may be worth a try if nothing else [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > LQ I would probably try it, but as I am unable to work, we are living on one income, we do not have the extra money for it right now. Maybe once we move back to Florida I will be able to do it. Thank god I get my meds for free, and I get a discount at my doctor's office for my visits and lab work. When I went home last year to take care of some family business, my BG's was very normal and also the pain was virtually non-existant. Both parents are Type 2 Diabetics and they are able to eat things I can't. Wonder what was going on then, maybe the feeling of being home and having no stress at all. SignatureSuzi A1c 6.4 T2 DX 10/2002 Glucophage 2 x 1000mg Lipitor 20mg (3 days a week), Enalapril 20mg 30 minutes walks 7 days a week Yep, it is expensive. I'm not going to be able to do it for a long time (am losing my job in July) but I'm sort of advancing myself a bit of my severance pay for it. In the shape I've been in finding another job would be nearly impossible anyway, so I didn't have much to lose. Stress is a big deal on the body, I don't think we notice it most of the time but it does... I tend to be pretty hardy under it but then it seems like I hit a threshold and then everything breaks at once, BAD. Maybe there's something you could do to relieve it that wouldn't cost much - maybe a book on accupressure, doing a visualization about being home with your parents to try and recreate that feeling, etc. I tend not to be good at that kind of thing (can't get my brain to shut up long enough) but it works for others... LQ > Yep, it is expensive. I'm not going to be able to do it for a long > time (am losing my job in July) but I'm sort of advancing myself a bit [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > LQ One thing I can't wait for in the move to Florida is that my best friend is a massage therapist. She is great. I feel so great after one of her massages. SignatureSuzi A1c 6.4 T2 DX 10/2002 Glucophage 2 x 1000mg Lipitor 20mg (3 days a week), Enalapril 20mg 30 minutes walks 7 days a week > >Anecdotally, I've heard that from a lot of low carbers; any inflammatory > >condition seems to be helped by lower sugar, lower insulin circulating. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > inflammations have diminished immensely. That was when I began making > real progress especially, with the bad shoulder... People with breathing problems often improve vastly just with weight loss - but not COPD, where it can cause the opposite outcome. What breathing problems are not COPD? >>On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:15:47 -0400, Susan > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > with weight loss - but not COPD, where it can cause the > opposite outcome. > What breathing problems are not COPD? Sleep apnea. Difficulty breathing when lying down because of obesity. Are you one who sweeps every problem to do with breathing under the umbrella of COPD? Or are you one that knows COPD has it's own distinct set of symptoms, diagnostic tools and treatments? http://www.copd-international.com/ I don't think your garden variety inability to breathe properly when lying down when obese would come under that category, do you? "The good news is that COPD, though considered a chronic, debilitating and sometimes fatal disease, can be managed, controlled and slowed down. We can all lead good and long lives, with a great deal of quality and joy left even after diagnosis. If you or a loved one has been diagnosed with COPD, general well-being and prognosis can improve greatly with proper treatment and care." http://www.nationaljewish.org/disease-info/diseases/copd/about/symptoms.aspx "A change or increase in the symptoms you often have may be the only early warning sign. You may notice one or more of the following: a.. An increase or decrease in the amount of sputum produced b.. An increase in the thickness or stickiness of sputum c.. A change in sputum color to yellow or green or the presence of blood in the sputum d.. An increase in the severity of shortness of breath, cough and/or wheezing e.. A general feeling of ill health f.. Ankle swelling g.. Forgetfulness, confusion, slurring of speech and sleepiness h.. Trouble sleeping i.. Using more pillows or sleeping in a chair instead of a bed to avoid shortness of breath j.. An unexplained increase or decrease in weight k.. Increased feeling of fatigue and lack of energy that is persistent l.. A lack of sexual drive m.. Increasing morning headaches, dizzy spells, restlessness" > > Have you also taken some hits from your steroid inhaler? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > use either inhaler anymore. The exception is during outdoor exercise > when it's cold - my lungs still don't like that much. What is your preventative asthma drug? Azmacort, a steroid inhaler. I have a generic albuterol inhaler for "rescue". But I must confess that I've always preferred the albuterol to the steroid one and probably take too much albuterol and not enough steroid (then again, with my pancreas in the state that it's in maybe it was a good thing that I kept forgetting to take the Azmacort....) LQ >Azmacort, a steroid inhaler. I have a generic albuterol inhaler for >"rescue". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >LQ LQ I was wondering what the outcome of the 24 hour urine collection was of if you have heard anything back about it yet. Nice to hear the accupuncture giving you some relief. Back in the 70's a friend of my parents used accupuncture for severe back pain after having some low back surgery. She swore by it. And my Dad who could be voted least likely to go for "alternative" treatment was impressed as could be and started telling everyone about it. >I was wondering what the outcome of the 24 hour urine collection was >of if you have heard anything back about it yet. Haven't heard yet, not so much as a phone call. When I checked on Tuesday it wasn't finished yet, so I'm trying to give them a few days. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back high - I found a study online today that said that insulin blocks the action of catecholamines. I wonder if I was making whopping amounts of both (the insulin because of the resistance and the catecholamines to try and overcome the insulin) and when I knocked the insulin down by exercise and low carbing the catecholamine level didn't drop accordingly. >Nice to hear the accupuncture giving you some relief. *Something* is working really well right now but I've changed too much at once now I'm not sure what it was :lol:. I've been better about taking minerals (chromium and magnesium) in the last few days, and I feel better and my bg levels are surprising low (77 post-breakfast, 83 when I got home from work, 74 post snack, 96 1 hr post dinner!). All this since yesterday. I had been taking the same minerals earlier on in this thing but thought they may have been making it worse so discontinued them. That tends to make me think it was the acupuncture, because the same amount of them a few weeks ago did nothing. Or it could just be coincidence. I'm not sure if I care, as long as I get some relief. I always do this ::sigh:: - I throw the kitchen sink at the problem then don't know what works. But when feeling this shitty I really didn't have the patience to try one thing at a time..... If it had been a minor problem I would've been more systematic. I'm glad your friends/parents got some relief from it. IMHO it's worth a shot, particularly when nothing else works or as a adjunct to other treatment. LQ ::: I was wondering what the outcome of the 24 hour urine collection was ::: of if you have heard anything back about it yet. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] :: didn't have the patience to try one thing at a time..... If it had :: been a minor problem I would've been more systematic. Well, if you're finally feeling better....just keep doing what you're doing for a while...to regain some sanity. :: I'm glad your friends/parents got some relief from it. IMHO it's :: worth a shot, particularly when nothing else works or as a adjunct :: to other treatment. :: :: LQ Tremor, Nausea, Tachycardia, Palpitations, Nervousness, Increased blood pressure, Dizziness and Heartburn are all listed as side effects of Albuterol. > Azmacort, a steroid inhaler. I have a generic albuterol inhaler for > "rescue". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > LQ > Azmacort, a steroid inhaler. I have a generic albuterol inhaler for > "rescue". > But I must confess that I've always preferred the albuterol to the > steroid one and probably take too much albuterol and not enough steroid > (then again, with my pancreas in the state that it's in maybe it was a > good thing that I kept forgetting to take the Azmacort....) Interesting, 5 of my 7 kids have varying degrees of asthma. My 28 yr old is the worst, her preventative is non steroidal -Intal. She is given steroids for severe attacks that will not respond to a reliever like Ventolin (as well as Atrovent when symptoms are worse than normal). Sometimes it is prednisone, sometimes Seretide - in a strange contraption, that has blister packs of medication inside the contraption - it is a combo of two meds. Presumably you have severe and frequent attacks to warrant a steroidal preventative? I had been on Intal before (cromolyn sodium) and it didn't do squat for me. I had had a previous GP who kept insisting that "I wasn't using it properly" while I kept insisting I was. Finally saw another GP who said "yup, it doesn't work on everyone - here, try this". As you can tell I haven't had great luck with GPs except for once in awhile :lol:. My attacks were pretty constant - without the Azmacort I'd be using the Ventolin 6-8 times a day. Now without the carbs I'm using the Ventolin maybe once a day, and a lot less Azmacort to boot! LQ > I had been on Intal before (cromolyn sodium) and it didn't do squat for > me. I had had a previous GP who kept insisting that "I wasn't using it [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > LQ I HATED Cromolyn. all it did was make me cough. Dave Well, the steroid inhaler is the one that will help you to avoid the albuterol inhaler, which is the one which will cause the adrenaline-like symptoms. If you use the steroid inhaler PROPERLY, you won't need to use the albuterol inhaler nearly as frequently. You are not well-informed if you think it is better to use albuterol as opposed to asthmacort. The albuterol may affect your bg readings, as well as your adrenalin-like symptoms, much more than using asthmacort. Asthmacort, Flovent, etc., are there to help you to avoid using the more dangerous inhalers such as albuterol, proventil, etc. Oh, if Ozgirl thinks she has so much more experience than I have, it's not true, because I have asthma, my husband has asthma, my MIL has severe asthma, my kids have asthma, and I use Flovent and Albuterol just to keep me going each day--first hand experience also. Of course, people prefer the rescue inhaler because it gives immediate improvement in breathing. But the most important thing is to calm down the bronchioles/lungs, etc. And that can only be achieved by using a steroid inhaler and/or an oral steroid. In my experience with patients, I realize that most are NOT educated in the proper use of their inhalers, which can make a huge difference in the improvement or lack-of in their lungs and breathing. Mary > Azmacort, a steroid inhaler. I have a generic albuterol inhaler for > "rescue". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > LQ > Well, the steroid inhaler is the one that will help you to avoid the > albuterol inhaler, which is the one which will cause the > adrenaline-like symptoms. For some, you forgot the YMMV. Not everyone gets the adrenaline like symptoms. If you use the steroid inhaler PROPERLY, > you won't need to use the albuterol inhaler nearly as frequently. The same care be said for non steroid preventatives. LQ has tried that and for her it doesn't work. It works for my kids that need preventatives. > You are not well-informed if you think it is better to use albuterol > as opposed to asthmacort. I don't know any two people who are on the same asthma regimen. Who are you to tell her she is not well informed? Between her and her doctor she has found what is workable for her. Not every asthmatic needs a preventative. There are varying degrees of asthma, different causes and triggers. >The albuterol may affect your bg readings, Please explain the process by which albuterol affects bg's. That sentence is not very explanatory. > as well as your adrenalin-like symptoms, much more than using > asthmacort. And it may not. Once again YMMV. Oral and inhaled steroid have a huge effect on my daughter's bg's. Ventolin doesn't as a rule. I have only ever seen her once with adrenalin-like symptoms and that was when she was nearly a week on 4 hourly higher Ventolin doses but at the same time still taking Intal, Atrovent and Prednisone (3 days only). This is not a competition Mary to see who knows more or who gets better control on what. Individuals have different responses to different meds. Asthmacort, Flovent, etc., are there to help you to avoid > using the more dangerous inhalers such as albuterol, proventil, etc. Dangerous? Side effects of albutrerol are rare, there is more danger in not using a reliever. There are far more side effects from Asthmacort. Intal is a great preventative med for those whom it works for. > Oh, if Ozgirl thinks she has so much more experience than I have, it's > not true, FFS Mary, grow up. This isn't about who has more of anything, it's about what works for an individual. All your experience may be of little help to another person. Why didn't you just tell LQ what works for you. Do you honestly think that in 13 years of me running a day centre and more than 10 years of nursing that I haven't had to deal with asthma attacks in other people? Everyone is different, everyone responds differently to different meds. And of course there is my own kids and a scattering of rels. because I have asthma, my husband has asthma, my MIL has > severe asthma, my kids have asthma, and I use Flovent and Albuterol > just to keep me going each day--first hand experience also. Good that you have found something that works for you. If the Flovent works for you to avoid asthma attacks then that probably weighs up for you against the risk of cataracts and glaucoma. > Of course, people prefer the rescue inhaler because it gives immediate > improvement in breathing. But the most important thing is to calm > down the bronchioles/lungs, etc. And that can only be achieved by > using a steroid inhaler and/or an oral steroid. Where's the YMMV? 3 of my kids don't need preventatives. They only get exercise induced asthma and generally only when they have respiratory illnesses. > In my experience with patients, I realize that most are NOT educated > in the proper use of their inhalers, which can make a huge difference > in the improvement or lack-of in their lungs and breathing. And of course you recommend to these uneducated people that they obtain a referral to an airways specialist? Anyway, what's the big deal to you about LQ's asthma? Have you got anything worthwhile to say about her RH? > Asthmacort, Flovent, etc., are there to help you to avoid > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Dangerous? Side effects of albutrerol are rare, there is > more danger in not using a reliever. There are far more side BULLCRAP! You REALLY need to stop discusing something you know so little about. Just because your kid has asthma, you don't know everything about inhalers that you should. Albuterol and Proventil ARE potentially very dangerous. here's another quarter; now this time go out and BUY that CLUE! >> Asthmacort, Flovent, etc., are there to help you to avoid >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > inhalers that you should. Albuterol and Proventil ARE potentially > very dangerous. here's another quarter; now this time go out and BUY > that CLUE! You need to provide cites, not just accept Mary's word for it. Most drugs have side effects, the potential effects of albuterol are less than inhaled steroids. Just because Mary has asthma and plays doctor doesn't mean she know anything either. Tell her to come in and argue her own points instead of sending a boy on a man's errand. have you figured out how to treat your hypo unawareness yet? >Well, the steroid inhaler is the one that will help you to avoid the >albuterol inhaler, which is the one which will cause the adrenaline-like >symptoms. If you use the steroid inhaler PROPERLY, you won't need to >use the albuterol inhaler nearly as frequently. You are not >well-informed if you think it is better to use albuterol as opposed to >asthmacort. Contrary to what you may think, I'm not an idiot and I do understand this. I use the minimum I can get away with of both. I've had weird side effects from oral steroids in the past and in general trust steroids less than the beta agonists, which I've never had side effects from. No shakes, no bp increase, no head rush. And I do actually read (and understand) the package inserts. I don't know what it is about the tone of your post, but you sound like one of those nurses who enjoys lecturing patients and assumes that they are all stupid, rather than listening to their concerns. Glad you aren't my nurse. LQ >>Well, the steroid inhaler is the one that will help you to avoid the >>albuterol inhaler, which is the one which will cause the adrenaline-like [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > LQ The steroid "preventive" inhalers are also associated with higher incidences of death from asthma. Susan LQ, the power of suggestion is great. Sometimes when we think something works, it does. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > LQ, the power of suggestion is great. Sometimes when we think something > works, it does. Acupuncture actually has been studied and proven to work, at least for pain. Susan > LQ, the power of suggestion is great. Sometimes when we think something > works, it does. > > Loretta When acupuncture works it works whether or not you believe in it. I started out quite skeptical but it completely freed up my frozen shoulder which laughed off cortisone shots, and more recently it healed a trapped nerve in my foot. My brother passed a kidney stone two hours after a treatment, after a hospitalization had not helped. The trick with acupuncture, though, is to use it for the things it is good for, which are those having to do with nerves and things going into spasm and freezing up due to pain. --Jenny http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes Diabetes Info http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood Sugar Under Control > You guys will probably think I'm nuts but I figured "what the hell, > nothing else has worked on the shakes so far" and went for it. I watched a documentary a few weeks ago, where a reasonably respectable scientist was seeing if there was a real effect from some alternative treatments. Acupuncture came out as real; there was a repeatable change in brain activity and reduction in pain for patients with arthritis in the knee. Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.4/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/74/72Kg |
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