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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / April 2006You just never know
This morning for breakfast, I had cottage cheese and a half of a pumpernickle bagel. I usually only have a quarter of a bagel, but thought that because it was pumpernickle I could have more. I have a bad headache and feel very tired and thought it was because of another reason. I tested two hours later and almost fainted when I saw 196. It goes to show that even after all these years, there are foods that will spike me and that it is still necessary for me to test, test test, I was 99 before I ate. What did I learn, I learned that with this disease you just never know. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. Trying something new--new food or different portions--is always an adventure, isn't it? Michelle, who always eats the same things on the T2 spectrum, diet & exercise Update, thirty minutes later I am 130. I guess that is what they call a quick spike. The question is has it ever been made certain that short spikes like this are doing damage to the cells? Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > Update, thirty minutes later I am 130. I guess that is what they call a > quick spike. The question is has it ever been made certain that short > spikes like this are doing damage to the cells? I thought Jenny posted just such a reference in the affirmative recently. For the record, most commercial pumpernickel products, unless the coarse German style, are colored by molasses (sugar) and are mostly wheat flour. Also, I buy the alleged low carb bagels from Bagel Biz or Bagel Boss, and I have to not only cut it in half, I have to scoop out and throw away all the soft doughy part of *those* to avoid a 40 point spike. The average NY bagel is BIG, about 100 grams of high GI carbs, I've read. Susan To me a bagel is the worst thing of all, worse than two slices of pizza or a cup of sugar (well, that one is speculation). A bagel seems to pack more carbs into a limited volume than any other food. Not being able to eat them may be the most tragic aspect of diabetes. > To me a bagel is the worst thing of all, worse than two slices of pizza > or a cup of sugar (well, that one is speculation). A bagel seems to > pack more carbs into a limited volume than any other food. Not being > able to eat them may be the most tragic aspect of diabetes. I compensate by buying "low carb" everything or sesame bagels, so that when I cut them in half and scoop out the dough, I still have a tasty bagel half to park my cream cheese and nova on. Keeps me under 125 this way. Susan >To me a bagel is the worst thing of all, worse than two slices of pizza >or a cup of sugar (well, that one is speculation). A bagel seems to >pack more carbs into a limited volume than any other food. Not being >able to eat them may be the most tragic aspect of diabetes. Bagels are dense and heavy. They're high in carbs, but, by themselves, are low in fat. Eaten plain, their carb content and its absorption pretty well matches the action of Humalog. A Type 1 diabetic can easily handle a (plain) bagel by adjusting the dosage of the short-acting insulin. The problem comes when you load a bagel with butter, cream cheese, etc. Nobody eats a bagel plain. A "loaded" bagel begins to closely resemble pizza (which for me and for many others here is a big no-no). In this regard, it might actually be better for a diabetic to put marmalade on his bagel than to put cream cheese on it. (Just count the carbs in the marmalade.) It seems that an English muffin, being full of air, might be the better choice. when I go out for breakfast, I never order a bagel. I usually get a bialy which is less than an english muffin, or an english muffin and eat half, whether I have it with lox and cream cheese or with eggs. I dont have a problem with those others products. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > when I go out for breakfast, I never order a bagel. I usually get a > bialy which is less than an english muffin, or an english muffin and > eat half, whether I have it with lox and cream cheese or with eggs. > I dont have a problem with those others products. That same meal eaten later in the day quite possibly may not have affected you. After all, mornings are when we are most insulin resistant - a time when it takes little carb to spike us. It may have even been better with full fat cream cheese. The insulin "over reaction" you had does show you still have some phase ii insulin response happening there :) > To me a bagel is the worst thing of all, worse than two slices of pizza > or a cup of sugar (well, that one is speculation). A bagel seems to > pack more carbs into a limited volume than any other food. Not being > able to eat them may be the most tragic aspect of diabetes. That's awful! I guess I must be extremely lucky not to be quite sure what a bagel is or whether I've actually eaten one. Lucky escape, I guess.  SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] >> To me a bagel is the worst thing of all, worse than two slices of >> pizza or a cup of sugar (well, that one is speculation). A bagel >> seems to pack more carbs into a limited volume than any other food. >> Not being able to eat them may be the most tragic aspect of diabetes. > That's awful! I guess I must be extremely lucky not to be quite sure > what a bagel is or whether I've actually eaten one. Lucky escape, I > guess. I have seen them in supermarkets but never seem tempted. Chris and Jan, a supermarket bagel just doesnt cut it. In New York , there are bakeries that sell about twenty different varieties of home made bagels, they are fabulous for a civilian, and too much for a diabetic. You can smell the bagels a mile away They also sell deli items and have juice and milk and a variety of food products for a quick fill in. Some flavors are the everything bagel, pump bagel, wheat bagel, oniion, garlic, cinnamon raisin, plain , sesame and poppy bagels. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > Chris and Jan, a supermarket bagel just doesnt cut it. In New York , > there are bakeries that sell about twenty different varieties of home > made bagels, they are fabulous for a civilian, and too much for a > diabetic. You can smell the bagels a mile away They also sell deli > items and have juice and milk and a variety of food products for a > quick fill in. Some flavors are the everything bagel, pump bagel, > wheat bagel, oniion, garlic, cinnamon raisin, plain , sesame and > poppy bagels. I once saw a blueberry bagel. I somehow couldn't have allowed myself to eat something that resembled a blood blister :) Apart from that I am not really into doughy stuff. If it can't be like traditional rock hard crusty Italian bread it's not really my scene. But you are right, supermarket stuff wouldn't compare. > I once saw a blueberry bagel. I somehow couldn't have > allowed myself to eat something that resembled a blood > blister :) Apart from that I am not really into doughy > stuff. If it can't be like traditional rock hard crusty > Italian bread it's not really my scene. But you are right, > supermarket stuff wouldn't compare. ACK, real bagels don't have fruit! That's just an abomination. They have sesame seeds, salt, poppy seeds, garlic or onion, but no self respecting bagel would have fruit! They're crucial to enjoyment of smoked salmon, IMO, so I do a little surgery on them before eating. Susan >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Susan Love sesame seed bagels with jalapeño cream cheese, which is why we don't stop at the local bagel bakery. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of April 02, 2006 is 2,343. Americans wounded = more than 16,774 United Kingdom = 103 Other = 105 Iraqi deaths are probably in excess of 100,000. Today, April 5, 2006 It has been 1069 days since Bush declared, "Mission Accomplished in Iraq." And some people still believe what he says. Susan, in New York, there are blueberry bagels. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > Susan, in New York, there are blueberry bagels. Loretta, I'm in NY metro, and I know there are. But not any of them have any self respect. :-) Susan Susan, what is considered the New York metropolitan area. Does that include New Jersey. The blueberry bagels to me are the worst. lol Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. I think the TriState Area is NY NJ and Conn. The NY Metropolitan Area is the 5 boroughs. Jennifer > Susan, what is considered the New York metropolitan area. Does that > include New Jersey. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and > terrorism. > I think the TriState Area is NY NJ and Conn. > > The NY Metropolitan Area is the 5 boroughs. If so, then I'm wrong, but I thought LI was in NY metro, as opposed to wider TriState. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Susan I don't think anything's official ; ) I'm from the Guyland... and we always referred to: The City or The Island. Of course once I moved to The City... then they were all "Bridge and Tunnel" people ; ) Jennifer > I don't think anything's official ; ) Oh, good. I'd hate to think I'm not part of the Big City Scene. ;-) > I'm from the Guyland... and we always referred to: The City or The Island. Yup. The City. The Island (because Staten and City islands don't count). > Of course once I moved to The City... then they were all "Bridge and > Tunnel" people ; ) That would be me; I used to skip out of high school and take a bus to the subway to The Village. :-) Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Susan Technically, the only part of New York City on the mainland is The Bronx. Everything else is on an island. Jennifer > Technically, the only part of New York City on the mainland is The Bronx. > > Everything else is on an island. I never thought of that! OTOH, no one thinks of Brooklyn and Queens as part of Lawn Guyland, either. It's about cultchuh, dontcha know. Susan Jennifer I have lived here all my life. I had a senior moment. You are right, of course. thanks Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > Susan, what is considered the New York metropolitan area. Does that > include New Jersey. Lawn Guyland. ;-) > The blueberry bagels to me are the worst. lol Even the cinnamon raisin ones are an abomination. Susan >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Susan But oh so good. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of April 04, 2006 is 2,344. Americans wounded = more than 16,774 United Kingdom = 103 Other = 105 Iraqi deaths are probably in excess of 100,000. Today, April 6, 2006 It has been 1071 days since Bush declared, "Mission Accomplished in Iraq." And some people still believe what he says. > For the record, most commercial pumpernickel products, unless the coarse > German style, are colored by molasses (sugar) and are mostly wheat [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > The average NY bagel is BIG, about 100 grams of high GI carbs, I've read. Loretta, I have to wonder what was in that bagel... I have found that the coarse German style pumpernickel does not affect my BG that severely, but just about any other bread products do, unless I find something relatively low carb, like that Ezekiel Bread I mentioned a week or so ago. The coarse dark rye seems approximately OK, also, according to my meter..... Also, sometimes they load carbs into cottage cheese, I have found, just as some hot dog and sausage manufacturers use carbs to bulk up their meat products... You might want to take a look at the ingredients listed on the side of the cottage cheese container. Will Will, there are four carbs in the cottage cheese for a half a cup. and as for hot dogs, I answer to a higher authority so there are no added fillers. :-) Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > Will, there are four carbs in the cottage cheese for a half a cup. and > as for hot dogs, I answer to a higher authority so there are no added > fillers. :-) I know what you must mean about the hot dogs, Loretta. If I recall correctly, you like Nathan's Hot Dogs, which come from a local deli you frequent. About the only hotdogs and related products around here that I eat are made by Hebrew National, which have no fillers, either.... Will, T2 Will, Nathans Famous is an institution since the early 1900s. It is in Coney Island and about five blocks from where I live. It takes up an entire block . It is quite different than the franks bought in the supermarket under the name of Nathans There are none to compare. The Higher Authority I was referring to was Hebrew National as they have to kosher. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. Now you have gone and done it! I am starved!!! Can't wait now for the Cyclones' season to start - with my stop at Nathans before the game. (Hadn't been diagnosed last season ... will have to see how things go this time.) Mark, are you a brooklyn guy. Listen, eat the hot dogs, without the bun or half a bun and have ten french fries and you might be very surprised how good you are. I live a half mile from the stadium and yet never went to any games. Maybe this year I will, but then again, I say that every year. lol Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. I am a Brooklynite - although I moved to Staten Island 16 years ago - but still consider myself a Brooklynite. That is why I have a season plan for the Cyclones and not the SI Yankees. Went to Lafayette HS - in the days it was one of the best HS's in the city - a shame what is happening now. My parents were teachers at Mark Twain for many many years. Maybe we can meet at Keyspan this season. Mark > Mark, are you a brooklyn guy. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Loretta Mark, I went to Lafayette and graduated in l962. My daughter went to Mark Twain in the early eighties, what year did you graduate. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. I am a 1970 grad - (our senior class lost SING - we wuz robbed!) Probably had some of the same teachers! (My Dad went there as well ... a FEW years earlier than us! <G>) Ask your daughter if she knew Mr.and/or Mrs. Fendrick at Mark Twain. Was Gary Goldstein the principal while she was there? Mark > Mark, I went to Lafayette and graduated in l962. My daughter went to > Mark Twain in the early eighties, what year did you graduate. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and > terrorism. Mark, I never heard of any senior class losing sing, an upset for sure My daughter went to Mark Twain from l985 till l988 , Were your parents there then. I dont remember Gary Goldstein, but if you remember Gary Goldberg from Lafayette, he went on to be a tv producer or director. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. Yeah, in fact the senior chorus leader and junior chorus leader were sisters and didn't speak to each other for months! (We were the class who did the Viet-nam protesting BIG TIME and I think the administration had it in for us ... that's our story and we are sticking to it!) In the long run the 2 classes have become very close and have many reunions jointly. The first time that happened, it was started over a discussion about SING - 30 years later! I am not sure if my parents were still there, though they did teach there into the 80's ... I will check. Yes I have heard of Gary Goldberg ... we had our share of well known folks - in addition to Sandy Koufax of course ... Larry King, Rhea Pearlman, Vic Damone, a long list of baseball players ... and on and on ... Mark > Mark, I never heard of any senior class losing sing, an upset for sure > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and > terrorism. Mark, I didnt know about Larry King, He was way before my time, Nor did Iknow about Rhea Pearlman. Sandy Koufax was a legend when I got into school. Lafayette was an incredibly good school in those days. Today you are lucky someone doesnt shoot you there. There are metal detectors all over. There was respect from the students back then, There is no respect for authority almost anywhere any more. maybe we should take this to email. so if you want to write, this is my correct address. Loretta my email is off right now, some problem, but you can try -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > Will, Nathans Famous is an institution since the early 1900s. It is in > Coney Island and about five blocks from where I live. It takes up an > entire block . It is quite different than the franks bought in the > supermarket under the name of Nathans There are none to compare. The > Higher Authority I was referring to was Hebrew National as they have to > kosher. That's sort of what I figured, Loretta... I like Hebrew National best, myself.... I don't keep strictly kosher, but I find that for some things, anyway, the kosher foods seem to be more diabetic friendly, and healthier, because they are not so processed and loaded with additives and fillers. In short, the consumer can be more sure of what he/she is getting. Of course, carbs are carbs and we have to always watch those. Will, T2 Will, kosher food is much higher in sodium than non kosher usually so if you have a blood pressure problem be careful. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. >Will, kosher food is much higher in sodium than non kosher usually so if >you have a blood pressure problem be careful. > >Loretta Thanks, Loretta... I know what you mean:-) I always have to watch sodium, ever since that episode in the hospital. Still, though, my point was that kosher foods, if you watch sodium and carbs can be in some ways healthier, because they tend to have fewer wierd additives. I belong to a couple of kosher low-carb groups and mailing lists, if you would be interested in the links.... Will, T2 Will, thanks for the offer, but I think I will by pass that. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. >> Will, there are four carbs in the cottage cheese for a half a cup. >> and as for hot dogs, I answer to a higher authority so there are no >> added fillers. :-) > > I know what you must mean about the hot dogs, Loretta. If I recall > correctly, you like Nathan's Hot Dogs, which come from a local deli > you frequent. About the only hotdogs and related products around here > that I eat are made by Hebrew National, which have no fillers, > either.... Geez, I might switch :) Hot dogs here are revolting. Ozgirl, can you get kosher franks over there Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > Ozgirl, can you get kosher franks over there Possible in the Jewish communities in large cities. Not where I live. I just looked at my baking books, and except for 100% rye bread, which is rare because it is quite crumbly and doesn't sell well, all rye breads are a bit over a half to over 3/4 wheat flour--in my books whole wheat flour. I would think that the more authentic, denser, coarser German ryes are closer to half rye flour than a quarter. Even so, rye breads are lower on the glycemic index as even that much rye substituted for wheat makes a big difference. Most are sweetend with molasses for the color, but many may have a bit less sweetener than some of the more usual white or even whole wheat breads. My guess is that with the rye flavor, sweetness is just not as essential to make bread palatable. Morris > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Susan > I just looked at my baking books, and except for 100% rye bread, which > is rare because it is quite crumbly and doesn't sell well, all rye > breads are a bit over a half to over 3/4 wheat flour--in my books whole > wheat flour. I would think that the more authentic, denser, coarser > German ryes are closer to half rye flour than a quarter. I regularly buy ones that are 100% rye, with both coarse ground rye flour and whole kernels. It's too crumbly, as you say, to make sandwiches, but it's great toasted with brie on top. Even so, rye > breads are lower on the glycemic index as even that much rye > substituted for wheat makes a big difference. Whole kernel rye is low GI for a grain. I've never seen that claim for ground flour. Once it's processed and cooked, the starch is more readily released and digested. Most are sweetend with > molasses for the color, but many may have a bit less sweetener than > some of the more usual white or even whole wheat breads. My guess is > that with the rye flavor, sweetness is just not as essential to make > bread palatable. I used to bake a lot of bread in my bread machine, and molasses, and sometimes coffee, was used in the pumpernickel recipes, probably for color more than anything else. Susan <gave away the bread maker instead of turning it into a planter> Susan Susan , bagels in New York are tremendous. I can comfortably eat one quarter. \ Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > Susan , bagels in New York are tremendous. I can comfortably eat one > quarter. Yes, that's about what I'm probably eating by the time I scoop out the half. I had one like that for lunch with cheese today; 106 at one hour. Susan : x-no-archive: yes : > Update, thirty minutes later I am 130. I guess that is what they call a : > quick spike. The question is has it ever been made certain that short : > spikes like this are doing damage to the cells? : I thought Jenny posted just such a reference in the affirmative recently. : For the record, most commercial pumpernickel products, unless the coarse : German style, are colored by molasses (sugar) and are mostly wheat : flour. Also, I buy the alleged low carb bagels from Bagel Biz or Bagel : Boss, and I have to not only cut it in half, I have to scoop out and : throw away all the soft doughy part of *those* to avoid a 40 point spike. : The average NY bagel is BIG, about 100 grams of high GI carbs, I've read. : Susan When I hear of people taking out the soft sluffy center of teh bagelI weep! In the old days, a proper bagel had no soft fluffy interioe, just a tough crust and a very chewy interior. You could give one to a baby fo teathing andit would not get through the crust even after drooling on it all day! Eve for dults, eating those bagels took time. These new bagels are too large and too soft! I remember waiting ouside the bagel bakery late on Saturday night for teh ot bagels that wee all baked after sundown. What a great way to end the evening:-) Wendy > : x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > weep! In the old days, a proper bagel had no soft fluffy interioe, just a > tough crust and a very chewy interior. Wendy, I didn't say "fluffy" I said "doughy" to distinguish it from the crusty part. I know what you mean, though. Susan > Update, thirty minutes later I am 130. I guess that is what they call a > quick spike. The question is has it ever been made certain that short [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and > terrorism. Us T1's do NOT call 130 a spike. We call that EXCELLENT control. <g> Dave David the spike at 2 hours was 196, it went down at 2 1/2 hours to 130 and then 96 at three hours Loretta it my head wacky -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. >> Update, thirty minutes later I am 130. I guess that is what they call a >> quick spike. The question is has it ever been made certain that short [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Dave As a T2 I am very happy with a reading of 130. I become a little concerned if I exceed 140, pretty concerned if I go above 165 and very concerned if I break the 200 mark. My doc, whom you all love, tells me to not be all that worried unless I go that high and stay there. He tells me to check again in an hour and so long as it is coming down not to worry. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ SIX MORE AMERICAN DEATHS ADDED THIS MORNING. The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of April 02, 2006 is 2,342. Americans wounded = more than 16,774 United Kingdom = 103 Other = 105 Iraqi deaths are probably in excess of 100,000. Today, April 4, 2006 It has been 1068 days since Bush declared, "Mission Accomplished in Iraq." And some people still believe what he says. >Update, thirty minutes later I am 130. I guess that is what they call a >quick spike. The question is has it ever been made certain that short >spikes like this are doing damage to the cells? > >Loretta Until the research results are in - I assume they do, and do my best to avoid them, without obsessing over it. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. :: This morning for breakfast, I had cottage cheese and a half of a :: pumpernickle bagel. I usually only have a quarter of a bagel, but [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] :: What did I learn, I learned that with this disease you just never :: know. Interesting. I always assume a spike from something like a bagel, even half of one with cheese. That's why I rarely eat them. I guess they would be a good option before/during long bike rides, though. Better than straight junk. Weird stuff. Now at three hours I am 93 and I am shaking, I feel as though I am having a low. 93 is not a low I know, but I guess coming in one hour from 196, which I tested to make sure three times, it is a fast drop. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > Weird stuff. Now at three hours I am 93 and I am shaking, I feel as > though I am having a low. 93 is not a low I know, but I guess coming in > one hour from 196, which I tested to make sure three times, it is a fast > drop. That's just what LQ and Jan have described with reactive hypoglycemia. It's not the number, it's the speed of the drop. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Susan You really think that dropping 100 pts in an HOUR is fast?? sigh. You guys need to get out more. dave Dave, to me it was fast because I dont have such variances usually, I felt myself gowing lower and I was getting a headache and shaking at 93, which is normally perfect for me. I get out plenty and that is probably why I became diabetic. lol -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > Dave, to me it was fast because I dont have such variances usually, I > felt myself gowing lower and I was getting a headache and shaking at 93, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and > terrorism. I envy your bg stability! :) Dave >> x-no-archive: yes >> >>> Weird stuff. Now at three hours I am 93 and I am shaking, I feel >>> as though I am having a low. 93 is not a low I know, but I guess >>> coming in one hour from 196, which I tested to make sure three >>> times, it is a fast drop. >> >> That's just what LQ and Jan have described with reactive >> hypoglycemia. It's not the number, it's the speed of the drop. >> Susan > You really think that dropping 100 pts in an HOUR is fast?? sigh. > You guys need to get out more. I prefer not to. I prefer to learn how to control my bg's so I don't have large rises and resulting crashes. You need to learn how to control better, the pump obviously hasn't been the answer for you. > You need to learn how to control better, the pump obviously > hasn't been the answer for you. If you were less clueless, you wouldn't say such STOOPID things! :) Dave >> You need to learn how to control better, the pump obviously >> hasn't been the answer for you. >> > If you were less clueless, you wouldn't say such STOOPID things! :) I know a lot of type 1's Dave. >93 is not a low I know, but I guess coming in one hour from 196, which I tested to make sure three times, it is a fast drop. Wow, that's a heckuva drop. I'd be on the floor, or worse. LQ LQ even though it wasnt a techincal low, I thought I was going to fall down. I wont be doing a half a bagel ever again. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. Bagels are carbolicious. Nothing like a fresh, toasted bagel. Too bad they're carbatomic. ;-( But...just ate four small soy/flax/walnut cinnamon muffins (about the size of a bagel in total)--3 minutes prep time--12 minutes in a toaster oven. One hour PP 94. Let's hear it for soy and flax!! > LQ even though it wasnt a techincal low, I thought I was going to fall > down. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and > terrorism. >>93 is not a low I know, but I guess coming in > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > LQ gimmie a break. I hit 38 last night. crybaby. Dave who you calling a crybaby Dave, I know you didnt mean me. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > who you calling a crybaby Dave, I know you didnt mean me. Dave doesn't believe in anything that he has never experienced himself. It wasn't you Loretta but as he has no type 2 experience I suggest you ignore him. If he knew the proper working of the endocrine system he wouldn't be spouting such ridiculous and incorrect nonsense, or maybe he would... That's the difference between T1 and T2. T1s have wider variations in their readings, averaging at a decent A1C. T2s live more on the moderately high side, in general. I don't think you should put Dave down for his T1 A1C of 6.1 or lower, at times. You are an angry woman. >>who you calling a crybaby Dave, I know you didnt mean me. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > spouting such ridiculous and incorrect nonsense, or maybe he > would... > That's the difference between T1 and T2. T1s have wider variations in > their readings, averaging at a decent A1C. T2s live more on the > moderately high side, in general. I don't think you should put Dave > down for his T1 A1C of 6.1 or lower, at times. Dave lives a rollercoaster, I don't think that gives him the right criticise people and call them cry baby's when they don't want to be the same. Why are you defending him whenever he makes a cutting remark to someone? > You are an angry woman. No, but I dislike the type of people you two are and it is worse because you are in a support group. >>>who you calling a crybaby Dave, I know you didnt mean me. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> spouting such ridiculous and incorrect nonsense, or maybe he >> would... Why are you defending him > whenever he makes a cutting remark to someone? Pot Kettle Black I couldn't make as many cutting remarks in a day as you do in 15 minutes. On that, you've got me beat by a mile. I salute you. dave > Why are you defending him >> whenever he makes a cutting remark to someone? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I couldn't make as many cutting remarks in a day as you do in 15 > minutes. On that, you've got me beat by a mile. I salute you. Yours are totally unjustified and you know it. Children, it is time for a cease fire. Nothing will be accomplished by this bickering except stress and higher numbers. Not worth it at all. jmo Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > Children, it is time for a cease fire. Nothing will be accomplished by > this bickering except stress and higher numbers. Not worth it at all. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and > terrorism. Mommy, mommy, make OZ stop! bwaaaaa! Dave David, sweetheart, if you dont respond, there will be nothing more to argue about. Jan, the same applies to you. Its not worth it. No one wins. Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy. Loretta who hates arguments -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. > David, sweetheart, if you dont respond, there will be nothing more to > argue about. Jan, the same applies to you. Its not worth it. No one [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > :) I'm happy! It's ok with me for Oz to be deluded, but it's another thing for her to be putting out nonsense for others to read. If she can stop with the presumptions about Mary and I, and stop putting out erroneous thoughts about T1's bg's, I'll stop responding to her. Otherwise, it's open season! :) Dave Loretta, I appreciate your peacemaker attitude. You're a good woman. Mary > David, sweetheart, if you dont respond, there will be nothing more to > argue about. Jan, the same applies to you. Its not worth it. No one [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and > terrorism. > Loretta, I appreciate your peacemaker attitude. You're a good woman. > > Mary Shall we harvest some of her DNA and inject it into Ozgirl? dave >> Loretta, I appreciate your peacemaker attitude. You're a good woman. >> >> Mary > > Shall we harvest some of her DNA and inject it into Ozgirl? And yourself? It hasn't been a one way discussion. >>>Loretta, I appreciate your peacemaker attitude. You're a > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And yourself? It hasn't been a one way discussion. I was making a funny. dave Thank you Mary, I am trying, but goonish helfen which means for naught Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. >Children, it is time for a cease fire. Nothing will be accomplished by >this bickering except stress and higher numbers. Not worth it at all. > >jmo >Loretta Which is why I vowed to treat Dave as if he were a guest in our house. It has worked wonders for my peace of mind. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of April 02, 2006 is 2,343. Americans wounded = more than 16,774 United Kingdom = 103 Other = 105 Iraqi deaths are probably in excess of 100,000. Today, April 5, 2006 It has been 1069 days since Bush declared, "Mission Accomplished in Iraq." And some people still believe what he says. ARe you a T1? Ask any true T1s about the everyday rollercoaster that they ride. It is not an easy thing to deal with. You just don't have a clue... >>That's the difference between T1 and T2. T1s have wider > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > >>>would... > ARe you a T1? Ask any true T1s about the everyday rollercoaster that > they ride. It is not an easy thing to deal with. You just don't > have a clue... Did you not see the part where I know a lot of type 1's? Watched them experiment until they got out of the day to day rollercoasters? I have more clue than you know. They made the effort to learn and they were rewarded. One type 1 in here in particular has helped other type 1's on the road to excellent type 1 control. It can happen. > > ARe you a T1? Ask any true T1s about the everyday > rollercoaster that [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > here in particular has helped other type 1's on the road to > excellent type 1 control. It can happen. Knowing Type 1's and living as a Type 1 are two different things. It is such a delicate balance we have to deal with every minute of every day. Balancing the insulin to food, factoring in the exercise to insulin, the ups the downs for no apparent reason. All diabetics have problems but even the most "controlled" Type 1 could have a day when there are horrific swings in bg numbers. The only good thing we have going for us is the ability to bolus for correction and test, test, test to keep the teeter-totter from crashing us down or flipping us up. I consider myself to have excellent control and my last A1c was 5.7 but there are still times when eating the same foods, injecting the same amount of insulin, doing the same physical activity will yeild some crazy results. The only other thing I want to comment on this thread and this exchange is a serious question to you, Jan. Why are you so upset over the comments here made by David and yet in the thread(s) where Susan was saying some very hurtful things to Don (Freckles) you didn't utter a peep? Yes, this group is about support but there seems to be a real red state/blue state thing going on here that is very unhealthy and unsupportive for all. We need to ALL try to work harder to understand "the other side" and strive for some kind of peace in here. Not saying we have to agree on everything, or even anything, but this dogpiling on each other and mob mentality is getting tiring. Best, Kurt > The only other thing I want to comment on this thread and this > exchange is a serious question to you, Jan. Why are you so upset > over the comments here made by David and yet in the thread(s) where > Susan was saying some very hurtful things to Don (Freckles) you > didn't utter a peep? Kurt, I have had Freckles killfiled for a long time, I saw a snippet here and there in replies but as far as I can see Susan was frank. Sure frankness can be hurtful. Did Freckles say he/she was hurt? Was Susan talking about Freckles specifically or some diabetics in general? I dunno, I am not seeing the full exchange. I don't mind if Dave is frank, I like frank - I call a spade a spade myself but ripping into someone who has more than minor problems, calling them hypochondriacs, blah blah, is not being frank. Being truthful isn't a crime, not is frankness, maybe frankness can be sugar coated but a truth is a truth no matter what you wrap it up in. Accusing people of being a sook, a malingerer, any number of words to describe that that person is just looking for sympathy when a person has no proof is not being frank. Comparing their own experiences when it is apples and oranges etc and saying that other person can't be suffering is not productive. Surely the benfit of the doubt can be given, although LQ's experiences are so like mine, Billie too, I don't have a doubt in my mind that this woman is suffering. It would be better to shut up in my opinion than to keep harping at her. Yes, this group is about support but there > seems to be a real red state/blue state thing going on here that is > very unhealthy and unsupportive for all. We need to ALL try to work > harder to understand "the other side" and strive for some kind of > peace in here. Then try to imagine that one of your loved ones, who is very ill, is heckled by your neighbour at every turn, accused of being a hypochondriac etc. Would you be feeling that those neighbours are understanding and supporting of your loved one? When a person is ripped apart for no good reason it is wrong. If a person cannot comprehend what another person is going through then why keep pecking at them. Not saying we have to agree on everything, or even > anything, but this dogpiling on each other and mob mentality is > getting tiring. One person doesn't make a mob. Last time I looked I was still a single unit. > > The only other thing I want to comment on this thread and > this [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Kurt, I have had Freckles killfiled for a long time, ???? >I saw a > snippet here and there in replies but as far as I can see [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > frankness can be sugar coated but a truth is a truth no > matter what you wrap it up in. Therein lies the problem. When one of your *peeps says something hurtful then it's "being frank" or "a truth" but if someone on the other side says something you consider a personal attack then it's labeled hurtful. It's all in the selective interpretation. That's divisive. > One person doesn't make a mob. Last time I looked I was > still a single unit. Mobs are made up of many single units. (* peeps is rap slang for people; in Alan S. slang it is known as kindred spirits) Kurt >> > The only other thing I want to comment on this thread and >> this [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > ???? You don't think I should have him/her killfiled? >>I saw a >> snippet here and there in replies but as far as I can see [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > labeled hurtful. It's all in the selective interpretation. That's > divisive. It's all in the perception. I might just perceive things in a different way to you. >> One person doesn't make a mob. Last time I looked I was >> still a single unit. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (* peeps is rap slang for people; in Alan S. slang it is known as > kindred spirits) Nah kindred spirits are people who are like minded. People in general can be anything. > Then try to imagine that one of your loved ones, who is very > ill, is heckled by your neighbour at every turn, accused of > being a hypochondriac etc. Hey, Oz, you write about hypochondria like it's equivalent to being suspected of being a mass murderer. It's a mental problem and should be treated if the person wants to feel better. I realize AFTER LQ came forth with further info, that she is likely to have RH. Before that, her numbers were unremarkable. THEN, she comes up with S.A.D. Makes me wonder if my initial comment about hypochondria isn't far off base after all. IF she says she has fibromyalgia, then it's a chinch she's a hypochondriac. I didn't say she was a murderer. Why are you reacting so strongly to terms that aren't demeaning? When I wrote "crybaby" that's different. By "hypochondriac" is a REAL mental issue. Dave By "hypochondriac" is a REAL mental issue. Replace "by" with "But" >> Then try to imagine that one of your loved ones, who is very >> ill, is heckled by your neighbour at every turn, accused of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Dave I lurk here but have only posted a few times in the past couple of years. I admit I rarely read all the threads because there are just too many for me to sit down and take that much time out of my day to read. But I have a question for you Dave. Are you saying that people with fibromyalgia are hypochondriac? If so I would love for you to live in my body and experinece my pain just one day. Then tell me I am a hypochondriac. Jac Jac.......... david is a troll in this newsgroup just ignore is ignorance, and read the better posters here take care, hon kate SignatureJoin us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. > >> Then try to imagine that one of your loved ones, who is very > >> ill, is heckled by your neighbour at every turn, accused of [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Jac > Jac.......... david is a troll in this newsgroup > kate Jaq is a troll. Dave >> Jac.......... david is a troll in this newsgroup > >> kate >Jaq is a troll. > >Dave Dave, I have posted a few times here and you say I am a troll, I believe you need to get a life. Nuff said, I will killfile. MsJac http://www.mountain-breeze.com/ Recipes and other fun things >>>Jac.......... david is a troll in this newsgroup >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://www.mountain-breeze.com/ > Recipes and other fun things I wrote that tongue-in-cheek style, because of tiger lily's response. You can't discern things clearly, can you? Just as well you place me in your KF. Then I can freely talk behind your back. thank you! <g> Dave :) -- Cheri "I have learned that making a living, is not the same thing as making a life."... Maya Angelou David wrote in message ... >Just as well you place me in your KF. Then I can freely talk behind >your back. thank you! <g> > >Dave > :) > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >>Dave Hi, Cheri! How's it going? dave Great Dave, got the lawn edged today, and am doing some serious pruning in between posts. Damn, no rain, for now. -- Cheri "I have learned that making a living, is not the same thing as making a life."... Maya Angelou David wrote in message ... >> :) >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >dave Thank you Kurt. Dave has been through it all for many years. People who don't have the same struggle just don't understand. I'm just thankful that he doesn't yet show any signs of complications. Ozgirl hates Dave and me, and no matter what we say, she will put us down. But she just doesn't understand the T1 life. >>>ARe you a T1? Ask any true T1s about the everyday >> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Best, > Kurt > Thank you Kurt. Dave has been through it all for many years. People > who don't have the same struggle just don't understand. Just like Dave not understanding LQ's struggle, hmm. Time to agree that you can support a person even if you don't understand or have not experienced the same experiences? It's not hard. > Ozgirl hates Dave and me, and no matter what we say, she will put us > down. But she just doesn't understand the T1 life. Interesting, considering the treatment LQ has recevied of late by a couple of people here. >>Thank you Kurt. Dave has been through it all for many > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Interesting, considering the treatment LQ has recevied of > late by a couple of people here. HELLO? Didn't i already agree she has convinced us she has RH? Answer back! I've stated this FOUR times since yesterday. No more discussion until you agree that I've already stated she has RH. Dave >>>Thank you Kurt. Dave has been through it all for many >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Answer back! I've stated this FOUR times since yesterday. No need to shout! Yes, you have but i was speakin gin the past tense, ya know. Ok, I can see the first paragraph doesn't look like it, but it was meant. > No more discussion until you agree that I've already stated she has > RH. I think I already congratulated you on stating that :) > I think I already congratulated you on stating that :) I'm in awe that you have agreed to an obvious truth. Congrats! :) >> I think I already congratulated you on stating that :) >> > I'm in awe that you have agreed to an obvious truth. Congrats! :) Credit where credit due, but the same works for criticism. >Mommy, mommy, make OZ stop! bwaaaaa! > >Dave The very next post as this from Mary: >ARe you a T1? Ask any true T1s about the everyday rollercoaster that >they ride. It is not an easy thing to deal with. You just don't have a >clue... Were they visiting us for the first time I would have to ask Dave to introduce us to Mary again so we would be know if she is his wife or his mommy. C'mon guys, you are supposed to be adults, aren't you? Madison shows more maturity than many of us who are over twice her age. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of April 02, 2006 is 2,343. Americans wounded = more than 16,774 United Kingdom = 103 Other = 105 Iraqi deaths are probably in excess of 100,000. Today, April 5, 2006 It has been 1069 days since Bush declared, "Mission Accomplished in Iraq." And some people still believe what he says. Chuck speaking of Madison, has she been around here lately. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the S |
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