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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / April 2006Recipe help?
Hello all, My father, a diabetic, is having quintuple bypass surgery today. I will be staying with him the first week of April, after he is released from the hospital, to help take care of him. One of the things I want to do while I'm there is prepare some meals for him that he can freeze and heat up in individual portions. My step-mother doesn't cook much, so this would be a big help for both of them. If you have any diabetic, heart-smart recipes that would freeze well (and are relatively easy - I also have a 7 month old baby to wrangle!) please post them. He doesn't like squash, carrots, mushrooms, or onions. Thank you! Amy (crossposted between alt.support.diabetes and sci.med.cardiology) > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > (crossposted between alt.support.diabetes and sci.med.cardiology) Ask your father what he would like. A need for comfort food in CABG times may be appropriate. The nutrition debate can wait and defer until trauma and depression issues are dealt in hand. Best dealt with with conversation and the thing called love. Involve everyone in extended family and you Doctor. Wish you all well! Bill not A Doc just a CABG guy.  SignatureLocated In S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit. Vision Problems? Look at http://www.ocutech.com/ ~us$1500 > Ask your father what he would like. A need for comfort food in CABG > times may be appropriate. The nutrition debate can wait and defer > until trauma and depression issues are dealt in hand. Best dealt with > with conversation and the thing called love. Involve everyone in > extended family and you Doctor. It can't wait if he's diabetic and insulin resistant. But he can have stuff he likes and that's good for him. I'd suggest Protein Power by the Eades as a guide, and alt.food.diabetic for recipes. Also, google up low carb recipes. Susan > Ask your father what he would like. A need for comfort food in CABG > times may be appropriate. The nutrition debate can wait and defer [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Bill not A Doc just a CABG guy. What's CABG? I agree that he may need comfort in the immediate aftermath of surgery, but considering all of his health problems, I would like to lay in supplies so that eating well is easy, for a while, until he learns new habits. Thanks, Amy "Amy" <amyeaustin@gmail.com> wrote in part: >> Ask your father what he would like. A need for comfort food in CABG >> times may be appropriate. The nutrition debate can wait and defer [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Thanks, >Amy CABG is bypass surgery (coronary artery bypass graft). But listen to Susan on this one. Diabetics can't wait to follow a strict diet. Do not delay. -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > please post them. He doesn't like squash, carrots, mushrooms, or > onions. Hi, Amy! You're a good daughter. Is he type one or type two? Is he on insulin? What style of eating does he follow in order to treat his diabetes? There isn't one way to eat, but many factors need to be taken into account. Priscilla > Hi, Amy! You're a good daughter. Thank you. I'm trying... > Is he type one or type two? Is he on insulin? What style of eating > does he follow in order to treat his diabetes? There isn't one way to > eat, but many factors need to be taken into account. Well, he's a type 2. He was not on insulin, but they've been using it to treat him since he's been in the hospital (since Friday). He had chest pains on his way to work (at the hospital where he's now a patient - he's a nurse on the cardiac floor, oh, the irony). His sugar was 354 when they admitted him, and they got it down to 190something when I was there on Monday for his angiogram. The angio revealed the need for surgery, which he is having as I write this. I'm trying to keep busy to keep my mind off of that... So, as you can see from his numbers, he wasn't managing his diabetes at all before this happened. He told his nurse that he checked his blood sugar once a month! So, I guess any improvement I can offer will help. Thank you very much for your interest and your help. Amy > > Hi, Amy! You're a good daughter. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Thank you very much for your interest and your help. You're welcome. My suggestion is to feed him as normally (as close to what he considers normal) as possible while eliminating the stuff that'll likely really shoot up his blood sugar -- rice, bread, pasta, potatoes, baked goods, bananas... Feed him meat/fish/poultry with lots of vegies and salads and berries. Olive oil for fat. Nuts. Monitor his BG at 1 and 2 hours after meals to see how he's responding. The information at http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm may be of help to him. Good luck! Priscilla > My suggestion is to feed him as normally (as close to what he considers > normal) as possible while eliminating the stuff that'll likely really > shoot up his blood sugar -- rice, bread, pasta, potatoes, baked goods, > bananas... If I balance those with protein - say a piece of toast with an Egg Beater and low-fat cheese omelet, or brown rice under a stir fry of chicken and lots of veggies, is it ok, or should I steer clear of them altogether? > Feed him meat/fish/poultry with lots of vegies and salads > and berries. Olive oil for fat. Nuts. Monitor his BG at 1 and 2 hours > after meals to see how he's responding. I'll be amazed if he lets me do it that often. He's stubborn... > The information at > http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm may be of help to > him. Thanks for the help!! Amy "Amy" <amyeaustin@gmail.com> wrote in message > If I balance those with protein - say a piece of toast with an Egg > Beater and low-fat cheese omelet, or brown rice under a stir fry of > chicken and lots of veggies, is it ok, or should I steer clear of them > altogether? You would need to test him before a meal and after to know whether that would be a problem. The toast and egg sounds like a breakfast? Even 1 slice of bread can cause a significant rise in diabetics at that time of day. And if there is no fat then the carb can hit the system very quickly, large rise that may or may not stay high. Can you get cholesterol lowering margarine in your area? A good serve of that can help on the toast. He may handle the rice ok later in the day. I haven't had rice with a stir fry for 6 years. With so many vegetables n it I have never found the need but if you want to "bulk" it out, mung bean sprouts are low carb, provide some firmer texture and to me, makes a stir fry. > > My suggestion is to feed him as normally (as close to what he considers > > normal) as possible while eliminating the stuff that'll likely really [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > chicken and lots of veggies, is it ok, or should I steer clear of them > altogether? Either altogether or serve really small portions, unless, of course, his meter readings at 1 hour after the meal is under 140 and at 2 hours under 120. > > Feed him meat/fish/poultry with lots of vegies and salads > > and berries. Olive oil for fat. Nuts. Monitor his BG at 1 and 2 hours > > after meals to see how he's responding. > > I'll be amazed if he lets me do it that often. He's stubborn... Does he understand the connection between his recent hospitalization and his out of control diabetes? > > The information at > > http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm may be of help to > > him. > > Thanks for the help!! You're welcome. Priscilla > Well, he's a type 2. He was not on insulin, but they've been using it > to treat him since he's been in the hospital (since Friday). He had [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thank you very much for your interest and your help. Yikes! Sounds like he needs to be on meds, or more meds, or different meds or maybe even insulin. I'd suggest cooking up some plain meat and freezing it in portions for two. This could be served with canned or frozen vegetables or a salad. SignatureSee my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm >>Well, he's a type 2. He was not on insulin, but they've been using it >>to treat him since he's been in the hospital (since Friday). He had [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I'd suggest cooking up some plain meat and freezing it in portions for two. > This could be served with canned or frozen vegetables or a salad. Canned veggies have a high sodium content. Buy the low-sodium kind. He will need to watch his sodium levels. Signature----------- Janet Wilder The Road Princess http://janetwilder.blogspot.com >>> Well, he's a type 2. He was not on insulin, but they've been using it >>> to treat him since he's been in the hospital (since Friday). He had [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Canned veggies have a high sodium content. Buy the low-sodium kind. He > will need to watch his sodium levels. I have a husband who has been on oral meds for years. He went on Byetta in December, and had an attack of pancreatitis in January. Probably no connection, but one wonders. We had worked on a low-fat diet for many years because of "TERRIBLY" high cholesterols and trigs; it was felt oral meds would work as long as we kept the fats down Anyway, with the pancreatitis he hit the 400s for quite a few days. Insulin is being used now, as well as the normal oral meds. He goes for lab this week and the internist next week. He was put on Zero Carbs in Feb. ( I haven't met tis Dr; maybe he thinks Jim, a big guy, lives on burgers ad pizzas! We don't; I cook healthy@). My point is that he wants something tasty, and sweet once in a while. I was in Japan for a couple of weeks and he found the sugarfree jello snacks were good. Your dad may fancy something like that. Rather than spend the earth for zero anything, I have bought Sugarfree Jello, make it up in the tiny tubs, and and a little fresh fruit. 5 blueberries, small pieces of strawberries etc. He FEELS he is having a treat, whereas he has almost minimal carbs. Gillian Florida. > I have a husband who has been on oral meds for years. He went on Byetta > in December, and had an attack of pancreatitis in January. Probably no > connection, but one wonders. We had worked on a low-fat diet for many > years because of "TERRIBLY" high cholesterols and trigs; it was felt > oral meds would work as long as we kept the fats down I'm confused; he's diabetic, right? Fat is a diabetic's friend, it's high glucose and insulin that promotes bad lipids and CVD. The right fats, in particular, also reduce inflammation, which is implicated in CVD. I lowered my TC 100 points by low carbing and doubled my HDL at the same time, while reducing TGLS to 100. I also got my bg in line without any meds for years by eating low starch, low sugar. > Anyway, with the pancreatitis he hit the 400s for quite a few days. > Insulin is being used now, as well as the normal oral meds. He goes for > lab this week and the internist next week. He was put on Zero Carbs in > Feb. ( I haven't met tis Dr; maybe he thinks Jim, a big guy, lives on > burgers ad pizzas! We don't; I cook healthy@). Burgers sans the bun are healthy, if you don't have fries and coke with them, especially so if the beef was grass fed (heart healthy fat profile, as compared to feedlot beef). > My point is that he wants something tasty, and sweet once in a while. I > was in Japan for a couple of weeks and he found the sugarfree jello > snacks were good. As a diabetic and someone who once had lipids in the highest decile for CVD risk (now below average without meds), I can eat high fat desserts or meals as long as they're not carby, with excellent serum lipid and bg results. High bg promotes damaging LDL and TGLs, low carb, high fat mitigates against them. If they worry you, it's quite possible to eat low carb, higher fat without increasing saturated fats, though there's no reason to fear them for most folks. > Your dad may fancy something like that. Rather than spend the earth for > zero anything, I have bought Sugarfree Jello, make it up in the tiny > tubs, and and a little fresh fruit. 5 blueberries, small pieces of > strawberries etc. > > He FEELS he is having a treat, whereas he has almost minimal carbs. I feel great having cheesecake I make with cream cheese, a crust from ground almonds, and sweetened with erythritol. Berries with whipped heavy cream, cobbler made with rhubarb and strawberries, sweetened with eryrthritol and topped with low carb granola, or chopped nuts, or low carb ice cream, or very dark chocolate (80% cocoa), etc... With these, I *am* having a treat. :-) Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Susan How do you keep all of the calories in the high-fat foods from making you gain weight? Signature----------- Janet Wilder The Road Princess http://janetwilder.blogspot.com Janet Wilder <kelliepoodle@yahoo.com> wrote in part: >How do you keep all of the calories in the high-fat foods from making >you gain weight? Ummm. I eat the same number as I would on any other ad lib diet. Do you think you eat a certain amount of weight, a certain volume, a certain number of times? I think it's calories as the best single measure. When you have a certain number, you're happy. Carbs (high glycemic) tend to fuel the appetite in those with insulin resistance, however. So I'd think diabetics would eat fewer calories on a low carb, high fat diet that they would on a high carb, low fat one. -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA >Janet Wilder <kelliepoodle@yahoo.com> wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >resistance, however. So I'd think diabetics would eat fewer calories on a >low carb, high fat diet that they would on a high carb, low fat one. That may be, Jim, but perhaps a word of caution would be in order here. I gram of fat contains about 9 calories, whereas 1 gram of carbohydrate contains 4 calories. Simply substituting fat for carbohydrate, therefore, would not seem to be the ticket to good health and weight loss. That's where high fiber foods, greens, and low glycemic, and low calorie veggies come in as evocative of a middle path, which together with moderate fats, would seem to be a healthier way to go. Will, T2 > That may be, Jim, but perhaps a word of caution would be in order > here. I gram of fat contains about 9 calories, whereas 1 gram of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > path, which together with moderate fats, would seem to be a healthier > way to go. Actually, any study to look at the question has found that substituting fat for starch does promote health and weight loss. One tends to eat less when one eats fat. Susan >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Susan Well, you may be right on that, but I just have not approached the problem as one of simple substitution, but rather one of establishing a better balance. For instance, I have almost completely eliminated starches with great success, and have only moderately increased fats, in such areas as using butter, rather than margerine, consuming small amounts of fine cheeses, rather than anything processed, using olive oil and red wine vinegar, rather than processed dressings on salads, and so forth. The rest I have made up in protein..... Actually, Susan, we are probably not too far apart in our overall dietary approaches. The main point I was making in my previous post was that simply substituting fat for starch, weight for weight, as by trading 5 oz of potatoes for 5 oz. of pure lard, was likely to be a bad choice. Will, T2 > Well, you may be right on that, but I just have not approached the > problem as one of simple substitution, but rather one of establishing > a better balance. Perhaps you're thinking of substitution as a gram for gram exchange? That would be a problem, though fat calories don't stimulate insulin nor glucagon, so there's a bit of leeway with them. For instance, I have almost completely eliminated > starches with great success, and have only moderately increased fats, > in such areas as using butter, rather than margerine, consuming small > amounts of fine cheeses, rather than anything processed, using olive > oil and red wine vinegar, rather than processed dressings on salads, > and so forth. The rest I have made up in protein..... That's great, I think we all eat differing ratios, depending on taste and bg results. > Actually, Susan, we are probably not too far apart in our overall > dietary approaches. The main point I was making in my previous post > was that simply substituting fat for starch, weight for weight, as by > trading 5 oz of potatoes for 5 oz. of pure lard, was likely to be a > bad choice. Correct, but I think that may be a bit too literal an interpretation of the varied modifications we all make. Susan > Janet Wilder <kelliepoodle@yahoo.com> wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA Thanks for the explanation. In your scenario, it makes sense. DH is already on a low carb diet. His endo prefers he keep the fats down, for both weight gain and cardio reasons. Signature----------- Janet Wilder The Road Princess http://janetwilder.blogspot.com > Thanks for the explanation. In your scenario, it makes sense. > > DH is already on a low carb diet. His endo prefers he keep the fats > down, for both weight gain and cardio reasons. But folks typically keep weight down by eating fat with protein. For one thing, it doesn't stimulate insulin or glucagon, and the body needs it. If he recommends low carb, the endo probably knows that there is no scientific evidence that dietary fat in a low carb diet promotes CVD; quite the opposite is true, according to endocrinology research, mostly. Olive oil, for instance, has anti inflammatory properties that are likely a significant influence in the cardio protective med diet, nuts have a similar benefit, as does fatty fish. But you probably know this stuff. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Susan Yes. We use extra virgin olive oil for cooking and salad dressing. I make my own dressings. It's not hard. Years ago, after reading the labels on the bottled dressings, I got so turned off by the thought of ingesting stuff I could barely pronounce that I got our my whisk. He gets some fats from the occassional egg ( I usually mix two parts Egg Beaters with one egg to serve both of us) and some from meats, sardines (he loves them) low-fat cheeses, avocado, sunflower seeds, etc. We don't do heavy cream, full fat ice creams or other high-fat content foods. We played around with the higher-fat very low carb concept and his colesterol levels went up. Even while taking the cholesterol drugs! Not every one has a good reaction on high protien, high fat, low carb diets. Two of our non-Diabetic friends who were devout Atkins followers had cholesterol numbers that looked like heart attacks in the making. So far the low carb (about 60-70 grams per day) with lots of fiber and veggies seems to be working. If it ain't broke.... <g> Now that he's on insulin we have to be very careful about calories. Much more so than when he was on orals. His endo wants as little body fat on him as possible as he is soooo insulin resistant. Once we got the insulin business working, his numbers are so great on the insulin that he's not complaining. It's been years since his FBG has been consistantly under 110 every single morning. No liver dumps. No lows. It's amazing. He just got permission from the cardio to start doing some treadmill. He's on a new heart drug that is supposed to make his heart stronger. The cardio said his heart was "getting better". That's a phrase we haven't heard in many years! We always hope to hear "doing well" at best. Will we have to do more adapting once he gets a pump? Signature----------- Janet Wilder The Road Princess http://janetwilder.blogspot.com > Yes. We use extra virgin olive oil for cooking and salad dressing. I > make my own dressings. It's not hard. Years ago, after reading the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Beaters with one egg to serve both of us) and some from meats, sardines > (he loves them) low-fat cheeses, avocado, sunflower seeds, etc. I'm with you about bottled dresssings; even a lot of premium brands use soybean oil instead of olive oil. > We don't do heavy cream, full fat ice creams or other high-fat content > foods. We played around with the higher-fat very low carb concept and > his colesterol levels went up. Even while taking the cholesterol drugs! I won't argue with your choices, but lots of folks find that even if LDL rises on lower carb, high fat, the ratios improve, indicating lower, not higher CVD risk. > Not every one has a good reaction on high protien, high fat, low carb > diets. Two of our non-Diabetic friends who were devout Atkins followers > had cholesterol numbers that looked like heart attacks in the making. So > far the low carb (about 60-70 grams per day) with lots of fiber and > veggies seems to be working. If it ain't broke.... <g> I'd be surprised if Atkins caused CVD inducing lipid ratios. So far, any study I've seen has found a more favorable profile, due to the greatly reduced TGL, which is considered more predictive, and higher HDL. Both indicate that the LDL is likely the fluffy, non oxidizing, non-atherogenic type. > Now that he's on insulin we have to be very careful about calories. Much > more so than when he was on orals. His endo wants as little body fat on > him as possible as he is soooo insulin resistant. I understand that minimizing exogenous insulin is important. > Once we got the insulin business working, his numbers are so great on > the insulin that he's not complaining. It's been years since his FBG has > been consistantly under 110 every single morning. No liver dumps. No > lows. It's amazing. He just got permission from the cardio to start > doing some treadmill. That's great; that should help a lot! >He's on a new heart drug that is supposed to make > his heart stronger. The cardio said his heart was "getting better". > That's a phrase we haven't heard in many years! We always hope to hear > "doing well" at best. > > Will we have to do more adapting once he gets a pump? Time will tell... Susan > x-no-archive: yes >> We don't do heavy cream, full fat ice creams or other high-fat content >> foods. We played around with the higher-fat very low carb concept and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > rises on lower carb, high fat, the ratios improve, indicating lower, not > higher CVD risk. He inherited genes from both parents for high cholesterol. Being Diabetic (inherited from his Dad dx'd at the same age and dead of cardio complications at 50) has exacerbated the cholesterol issue. He's just a little lipid factory! While patent diets might work for most, they don't for all. I'm not a Diabetic, but my mom and several of her sisters were. I try to watch my weight as I am fully aware that the stuff that causes insulin resistance hides in body fat. My stomach can't handle too much dietary fat (GERD) so I have to stick with olive oil, a daily ounce of nuts and one piece of extra-dark chocolate a couple of times a week as well as some avocado for my fats. I watch my carbs and eat lots of veggies so I won't get Diabetes. We all need to have some fat in our diets so that we can absorb vitamins and keep our bodies working well. Some of us can handle a lot of animal fat, others can't. Differences in people are what makes the world interesting. Don't you think? Signature----------- Janet Wilder The Road Princess http://janetwilder.blogspot.com > He inherited genes from both parents for high cholesterol. Being > Diabetic (inherited from his Dad dx'd at the same age and dead of cardio > complications at 50) has exacerbated the cholesterol issue. He's just a > little lipid factory! While patent diets might work for most, they don't > for all. Hey, so was I. My father's whole family was dead before 50 of CVD and/or diabetic complication. I had lipid in the highest decile for risk. I cut them to below average lipid risk profile with diet alone, then added the supplement pantethine for a dramatic LDL reduction and anotehr boost in HDL, which doubled from 34 to 68 on low carb. I'm not an Atkins dieter, but studies show improved ratios/risk profiles, even if LDL rises. I'm not on any popular diet plan, just what I came up with from reading on Medline. > I'm not a Diabetic, but my mom and several of her sisters were. I try to > watch my weight as I am fully aware that the stuff that causes insulin > resistance hides in body fat. It does? I think it hides in the cereal and donut aisle in the supermarket. :-) I think IR causes visceral adiposity, not at all the other way around. My stomach can't handle too much dietary > fat (GERD) so I have to stick with olive oil, a daily ounce of nuts and > one piece of extra-dark chocolate a couple of times a week as well as [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > handle a lot of animal fat, others can't. Differences in people are what > makes the world interesting. Don't you think? I'm not arguing that you should eat anything you don't want to. I'm just saying that I think you may be misunderstanding the importance of ratios and particle size over base cholesterol numbers. Dairy and beef from grass fed cattle have very cardioprotective fat profiles. It's food quality that matters the most. A sirloin steak has more mono and poly fat than it does sat fat. Less if closely trimmed, frex. Just sayinzall. ;-) Susan In alt.support.diabetes Janet Wilder <kelliepoodle@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Janet Wilder <kelliepoodle@yahoo.com> wrote in part: >>>How do you keep all of the calories in the high-fat foods from making >>>you gain weight? >> Ummm. I eat the same number as I would on any other ad lib diet. Do you >> think you eat a certain amount of weight, a certain volume, a certain number [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> resistance, however. So I'd think diabetics would eat fewer calories on a >> low carb, high fat diet that they would on a high carb, low fat one. > Thanks for the explanation. In your scenario, it makes sense. To me this business of how do you keep from getting fat if you eat a lot of fats, given that there's more carbs in fats, is a completely artificial problem. It only exists if you decide what to eat by reading books and weighing things. I don't. I make a plateful of food for dinner based on past experience of how much I like to eat. Sometimes I get it wrong, and still feel hungry, so I'll top it up with something extra. Sometimes it's too much, so I don't eat it all. After I discovered I was diabetic I added an extra complication: I test after am meal I haven't eaten before, and if I go too high, I remove suspicious ingredients until I have adapted it to something I can eat. As a result of "eating to my meter" I find I'm eating a lot less carbs, plus more protein and fats. I make the effort to keep the fats "good" in the sense of avoiding overcooked fats, avoiding animal fats which came from farmed animals, and eating more oily fish. I find that an unexpected consequence of these changes is that I'm hungry less often, and am naturally eating less. When I slip up and pig a bit on something carby, I start developing my old snacky hungers again, so it's clear to me that eating lots of carbs, especially high glycemic index ones, was making me hungrier and making me want to eat more. The final question is how do I stop getting fat. Well, eating more fats has helped a lot. Simply eating as much as a like I find I gain weight much more slowly on a a low carb fattier diet. But I want to lose weight. How do I do it? I eat less, e.g. I have smaller meals, skip dessert, etc.. I find, for example, that if I eat dessert every day with my dinner I get fatter, if I never eat dessert I get thinner. I compromise by eating dessert about every other day, which keeps me losing weight very slowly. > DH is already on a low carb diet. His endo prefers he keep the fats > down, for both weight gain and cardio reasons. There are differences of opinion among the professionals here. I've had a heart attack, and used to suffer from angina. On my high fats diet I've lost weight, lost the angina, and improved my general cardiovascular health. I haven't yet managed to reduce blood pressure, but I've kept it stable. Reducing it by increased cardiovascular exercise is my next aim. SignatureChris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] "Janet Wilder" <kelliepoodle@yahoo.com> wrote in message > How do you keep all of the calories in the high-fat foods from making > you gain weight? I don't know about Susan, but I can factor a high fat dessert into daily calorie intake if needs be. It's not like Susan eats these fat-filled desserts all day and they are perhaps only in small serves when she does :) A few years ago I used to eat 3 Turkish delight thins before bed. They are like the after dinner mint, thin squares of something coated in chocolate. They weren't high carb for 3 and it was the only probable bad fat in my entire day. > "Janet Wilder" <kelliepoodle@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > coated in chocolate. They weren't high carb for 3 and it was > the only probable bad fat in my entire day. I found that with all the other changes I made in my diet, I wasn't getting fat. I actually had to make an effort to add fat in the form of nuts, seeds, olives and olive oil and coconut. People learn that I am eating these things and assume that I eat a high fat diet. I don't. I rarely eat fried foods and I don't eat salad dressing. The bulk of my diet is plain vegetables. SignatureSee my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm > "Janet Wilder" <kelliepoodle@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > coated in chocolate. They weren't high carb for 3 and it was > the only probable bad fat in my entire day. Oh, was she asking about the desserts? I don't eat them daily, or even weekly, necessarily. Last night I had fresh strawberries with a dollop of whipped cream. Susan > "Janet Wilder" <kelliepoodle@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > coated in chocolate. They weren't high carb for 3 and it was > the only probable bad fat in my entire day. There's not much fat in Turkish Delight. It's mostly gelatin and sugar, with a bit of flavouring. We can get Turkish Delight candy bars here. Probably very close to what you had, only bigger. I used to like them. Vicki > > "Janet Wilder" <kelliepoodle@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > There's not much fat in Turkish Delight. It's mostly gelatin and sugar, > with a bit of flavouring. I was thinking more of chocolate. I think the chocolate would help in preventing the spike, too. > How do you keep all of the calories in the high-fat foods from making > you gain weight? I don't overeat, I find I'm satisfied with much smaller meals when they're protein and fat based. Also, this type of meal reduces insulin resistance, making weight loss easier and weight gain more difficult. Susan Hi Amy. Warm thoughts and cyber hugs out to you at this time. Yes, as Priscilla said, you really are a good daughter, plus I know you want him around as that baby grows up. I've got grandchildren, and now two great-grandchildren (siblings, boy - almost 3, and girl - seven weeks today - I think.... just text-messaged my granddaughter to make sure :-). I am not ambulatory, my husband has to do all the buying cooking, and I know how difficult it is to has easy, correct comfort foods around. I will try to think of what all I have him buy and/or prepare for me. Hang in there as you wait! You're doing good. :o) Billie in AR bh-wages at swbell.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ : Hello all, : [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] : : (crossposted between alt.support.diabetes and sci.med.cardiology) Amy Austin wrote: > Hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > (crossposted between alt.support.diabetes and sci.med.cardiology) Bless you, Amy. You are the best! After CABG, a highly invasive procedure, blood sugars soar. My Dh's were close to 500 and that was without eating a single bite, just from whatever they were putting in his veins. Hopefully the hospital staff will be better trained then they were with us in 1994, but don't count on the dietician knowing what a good diet for a Diabetic should be. Check with him or his Diabetes team for a diet that's good for him during recovery. The best thing you can do for him is to work at bring his blood glucose levels down so that he can heal faster. Try to avoid a lot of carbs. Don't be tricked into "sugar free" products that are made of sugar alcohols that could easily raise blood sugars. I suggest chicken, fish and lots of veggies. If he craves steak, use round or another lean cut. Potatoes, winter squash, peas, corn and beans are not "veggies" They are starches. Beans can be substituted for a starch if you measure the servings. (They make a better starch, according to our diabetes team educator, than does corn or potatoes.) Rice is not good. I have lots of recipes that use skinless, boneless chicken breasts and would be happy to share them if you would email me. This address works. Sugar-free Jello is a soother for a sweet tooth. Make sure you monitor the portion size. Steam cauliflower and mash it like potatoes with a little skim milk and a little soft, tub-type no transfat margarine. If you are in the Northeast (USA) look for Salt Sense which is a 1/3 salt. If you see that his meals are very carb-laden (milk and fruit are carbs), ask to talk to the dietician at the hospital. I've had to do this in every single instance that DH has been hospitalized. Ask the doctor to put the dietician in the loop so that he or she knows what kind of blood glucose levels they are dealing with. The dieticians are ALWAYS left in the dark. All the docs tell them is X number of calories and the Diabetes diagnosis. A good dietician needs to know more. Bad ones don't care. I wish you and your Dad well. It's a tough operation on the patient and on their loved ones. Signature----------- Janet Wilder The Road Princess http://janetwilder.blogspot.com > Try to avoid a lot of carbs. I'm confused about carbs. I told my step-mom what I'd learned, here and elsewhere, about how his diet needs to be low carb, and she said that the dietician/nutritionist had told her that 50 - 60% of his diet needs to be carbs! That doesn't seem low to me! She did say that he can't have white stuff - white sugar, white flour, ice cream, etc. - but that fruit and even the mashed potatoes I saw him eat the other night were fine! This is not making sense with what I'm learning here. So, are all of the low-carb diabetics going outside of the current medical recommendations, or what? Thanks, Amy (afraid I'm stirring up controversy - I don't mean to!!) > > Try to avoid a lot of carbs. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the low-carb diabetics going outside of the current medical > recommendations, or what? The idea is that diabetics need plenty of energy and that they have the same nutritional needs as everyone else. That is true but what's not true is the part where the high intake of grains is the only way you can obtain the aforementioned nutrients. Anyone with half a clue knows that it is carbs that raise bg's (raised bg's cause complications) but the cluey ones also know that those nutrients can be obtained from lower carb alternatives. The trend amongst doctors and nutritionists seems to be to carb people up then counteract the high bg's with more and more meds til finally your pancreas craps itself and insulin becomes the flavour of the month. Meds come with their own set of complications, high carbs usually equals high triglycerides (a heart risk of their own). And so it goes on. > > Try to avoid a lot of carbs. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > (afraid I'm stirring up controversy - I don't mean to!!) Look at this on a sometime. http://www.glycemicindex.com/ Enjoy! Bill SignatureLocated In S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade "oeuf tôt pique " Lover This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit. Vision Problems? Look at http://www.ocutech.com/ ~us$1500 >> Try to avoid a lot of carbs. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >(afraid I'm stirring up controversy - I don't mean to!!) Hi Amy Don't worry about controversy here - we'd be bored if we all agreed. I understand your confusion. I was going to type out a long involved reply - and realised I did that all before. So, if you don't mind some cut-and-pasting, this is the way I put it to my own Diabetes Australia people a couple of years ago. I think you can read enough between the lines to understand the reasons for confusion. I, personally, have no idea what my carb percentage is - but I'm sure it's nowhere near 50%; the numbers I do know are my post-prandial BGs. My old letter: Back in 2003 I wrote: "To The Editor, I am eternally grateful for the work the pioneers at Diabetes Australia did in helping us get the NDSS and the support system that we now have. The organisation continues to do a great job. But I have a basic difficulty with the logic of the dietary advice recommended by your dieticians. I see their advice like this: 1. Dieticians advise high complex carbohydrate consumption, apparently for heart, kidney and vascular health; 2. High complex carbohydrate consumption causes high blood glucose levels; 3. High blood glucose levels cause diabetic complications such as retinopathy, neuropathy, nephropathy and heart disease; 4. DA dieticians therefore recommend balancing the high complex carbohydrate consumption with medication or insulin to control blood glucose levels. This advice appears to be in line with the recommendations of overseas organisations such as the American Diabetes Association (ADA). Specific examples can be found on the DA web-site at http://www.diabetesaustralia.com.au/multilingualdiabetes/healthpros/f... or the ADA web-site at http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-recipes/nutrition/starches.jsp My difficulty in understanding this is because no-one seems to be investigating the alternative approaches. I don't mean herbs and supplements, just a better diet for diabetics, together with exercise, to enable minimal medication. To me, the most obvious alternative is to search for a diet for the diabetic which provides adequate nutrition for good health but does not cause high blood glucose levels. If such a diet is possible it would minimise the need for medication, particularly for type 2, with side benefits for overall health and health costs. I can attest that it is possible; I've done it, as have many others. However, when diabetics write to give examples, such as K ...... in the Autumn issue, they are dismissed and told that their improvement must be because of exercise, or weight loss, or some other factor. The method I followed, as a type 2, was simple. I started with a standard, sensible diet to lose weight. Then, as I followed that diet, I tested everything I ate one hour and two hours after I ate it. If I consistently found that something led to high blood glucose, I changed it. Sometimes I changed the food, sometimes the quantity, sometimes the timing, but always the aim was to minimise "spikes". Gradually I found I was eating significantly less carbohydrates, a little more protein and a little more "good" oils. And I did a little "lazy man's" exercise along the way. I also gradually reduced the high level of initial testing as results became predictable. After attaining a degree of control over my blood glucose, I now progressively review my diet to ensure there are no missing nutritional requirements and to further improve lipids etc. At diagnosis in 2002 my HbA1c was 8.2, now it's 5.9 and I take no diabetes medications. It's a long time since I've seen a "spike" over 8, rarely over 7.5. The improvements continued long after I reached my target weight. And my heart, blood pressure, lipids, kidneys and so on are also in good shape. Why do your dieticians continue to promote high carbohydrate consumption? What is it I'm missing, apart from complications?" HTH Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. > This is not making sense with what I'm learning here. So, are all of > the low-carb diabetics going outside of the current medical > recommendations, or what? The low carb Diabetics are following the American Diabetic Association and the prevailing medical community's guidelines. The hospital dietician needs some re-education. Have Dad's attending physician send a good Endo in on consult ASAP. Dad won't be able to get well if his BG levels stay elevated. They can do further damage to his heart and the cardio knows this. Discuss the hospital's failure to provide Dad with the proper diet with the attending. In our private email, I warned you about dumb hospital dieticians. I have had to fight with many and sometimes they just fed him what I told them to just to shut me up. Didn't care about being known as the "wife from hell" It was better than being the "quiet widow". Signature----------- Janet Wilder The Road Princess http://janetwilder.blogspot.com > The low carb Diabetics are following the American Diabetic Association > and the prevailing medical community's guidelines. If only! The ADA recommends a high carb diet, with the recommendation to "eat lots of starches!" (seriously, that's a quote). The hospital > dietician needs some re-education. Have Dad's attending physician send > a good Endo in on consult ASAP. Dad won't be able to get well if his BG [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > them to just to shut me up. Didn't care about being known as the "wife > from hell" It was better than being the "quiet widow". Good on ya. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If only! The ADA recommends a high carb diet, with the recommendation > to "eat lots of starches!" (seriously, that's a quote). Not the publications I have. Even back in the 60's the ADA's infamous "exchange" diet limited starches. Signature----------- Janet Wilder The Road Princess http://janetwilder.blogspot.com >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Not the publications I have. Even back in the 60's the ADA's infamous > "exchange" diet limited starches. That's unusual. The dieticians you've battled with were following ADA guidelines for more than half of calories coming from starchy carbs, mostly, or at least 200 per day. My cleaning woman told me yesterday that her mother just was diagnosed type 2 DM. The CDE told her that she has to eat at least 30 grams of carbs at each meal and 15 at each snack "so her pancreas won't get lazy." Seriously. :-/ Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Susan Your cleaning woman told you?!? There is nothing wrong with being a cleaning woman, but I hardly think their personal anecdotes should be taken as factual reports and used as your "source" to defame the ADA. Just another example of some of the unreliable information found on this newsgroup. Don > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Susan That's not a "high carb diet" That's two carb-counts at each meal and one carb-count per snack. That's nowhere near 50 to 60% of one's diet from carbs. I don't know about the "lazy pancreas" but I don't see anything wrong with that diet as far as the carb count. My DH did extremely well on orals with a diet like that. Seriously Signature----------- Janet Wilder The Road Princess http://janetwilder.blogspot.com > That's not a "high carb diet" That's two carb-counts at each meal and > one carb-count per snack. That's nowhere near 50 to 60% of one's diet > from carbs. I don't know about the "lazy pancreas" but I don't see > anything wrong with that diet as far as the carb count. My DH did > extremely well on orals with a diet like that. Seriously It's a hyooge % of calories from starches, especially since they're the most glycemic thing one can eat, and they're comparatively nutrient impoverished. Their inclusion at the expense of fewer, antioxidant and mineral rich veggies is incomprehensible to me. What kind of oral meds did your husband need in order to do well on that diet? Many of us need no meds (though some of us choose to use metformin to reduce IR and for cardioprotection) to achieve excellent control and lipid improvements with a lower starch diet. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > impoverished. Their inclusion at the expense of fewer, antioxidant and > mineral rich veggies is incomprehensible to me. You are making the assumption that the carbs in that diet are "white" carbs. Along with the diet the patient is usually given information about high fiber foods and how to check their meters to see how their carb choices are being metabolized. Everything does not have to be black or white. No one mentioned anything about not eating veggies or anything else. The only part of the diet that was mentioned was the carbs. I couldn't possibly know the percentage of carbs from what was stated. How did you? > What kind of oral meds did your husband need in order to do well on that > diet? He was on Precose and glyburide-Metformin with long acting insulin at night. He's limited in the amount of green things he can eat because it changes the effectiveness of his warfarin. Again, nothing is black and white. Human beings have the same physiology but it works a little differently in each individual. What works for you is great, but it's a real stretch to say that your program should or would work for everyone. That's why we have the ADA "guidelines." They are called guidelines because they are not etched in stone and they do take into consideration individual responses. Do you really suggest that every diabetic adapt your personal diet? > Many of us need no meds (though some of us choose to use metformin to > reduce IR and for cardioprotection) to achieve excellent control and > lipid improvements with a lower starch diet. I'm very happy for those of you who need no meds. I only wish that everyone could do that. What a happy world it would be! Unfortunately, some people can't do that. They need medications. When the medications are contra-indicated, like with DH who can't take the metformin because of CHF, other regimines must be tried. I appreciate some of the information you offer here, but I think you need to realize that what works for you will not work for everyone. Too many newly dx'd folks come here for information and making believe that the ADA is out to kill them isn't very helpful. JMHO Signature----------- Janet Wilder The Road Princess http://janetwilder.blogspot.com > You are making the assumption that the carbs in that diet are "white" > carbs. Along with the diet the patient is usually given information [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > couldn't possibly know the percentage of carbs from what was stated. How > did you? You only have to look at the bulk of the recommended servings from the starch group; it makes up the bulk of the diet. Whether they're white or not, starches are extremely glyecemic, with the exception of whole kernel rye. > He was on Precose and glyburide-Metformin with long acting insulin at > night. Wow, that's a lot of medication. I'm not sure we have the same idea about what doing very well only on orals means. >He's limited in the amount of green things he can eat because it > changes the effectiveness of his warfarin. Again, nothing is black and > white. Human beings have the same physiology but it works a little > differently in each individual. What works for you is great, but it's a > real stretch to say that your program should or would work for everyone. Except that certain things work the same for everyone; starch elevates blood glucose, protein doesn't (unless you're type 1). A diet that demands higher amounts of atherogenic insulin and beta cell stimulators by logic would not be a logical choice for someone with defective carbohydrate metabolism. I don't expect that the low calorie, low carb, 50% fat diet I eat is right for everyone, but certain principals are; whatever food causes the least bg rise or the least need for exogenous insulin or other drugs and results in the least CVD and other complications is the best for that person. > That's why we have the ADA "guidelines." They are called guidelines > because they are not etched in stone and they do take into consideration > individual responses. Do you really suggest that every diabetic adapt > your personal diet? I never did, that, I never do that. I rarely even specify exactly how I eat unless asked for particulars, so it would be hard to expect anyone to follow it. Only thing I recommend is that folks *eat to their meters* If a diet requires a boatload of meds to keep glucose in check in a type 2, it's the wrong diet for that person. > I'm very happy for those of you who need no meds. I only wish that > everyone could do that. What a happy world it would be! Unfortunately, > some people can't do that. They need medications. When the medications > are contra-indicated, like with DH who can't take the metformin because > of CHF, other regimines must be tried. But beta stimulators and insulin are tied to higher cardiovascular death rates, IIRC. If folks need meds in order to eat a high starch diet, the diet's at fault. If folks eat low starch and still can't control bg, then they surely need meds, and they're lucky to have them available. > I appreciate some of the information you offer here, but I think you > need to realize that what works for you will not work for everyone. So you're against folks using their meters as a guide to diet choices? That's the only outright instruction I ever offer. I have never suggested that anyone do what I do; I consistently suggest that folks eat to their meters and learn what foods aren't a healthy part of their plan. That's the only recommendation I make. The rest is sharing scientific research. I also routinely remind folks not to take my advice or anyone else's on usenet, just use the information as a launching point for personal investigation of the research their lives depend upon. Too > many newly dx'd folks come here for information and making believe that > the ADA is out to kill them isn't very helpful. JMHO Yet, time and again, overwhelmingly, those who come here after failing to get good control with a CDE's ADA styled advice have thanked this group for their good bg control and improved health. I find that helpful; maybe we have differing ideas of what helping means. The ADA and its positions have been rejected by the international scientific community for reasons grounded in the best scientific research into endocrinology and human metabolism. Diabetics, at least type 2, who follow their guidelines end up needing to take a lot of sponsor's medications to offset the effects of other sponsors food products. And to treat myriad complications. It boggles the mind how once they recognized that starches were as bad as table sugar for diabetics, they started telling diabetics to go ahead and include sugar, too, rather than limiting starches along with it. Like diabetics need more empty, high glycemic calories! Sheesh. Susan >> x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Not the publications I have. Even back in the 60's the ADA's infamous >"exchange" diet limited starches. On the ADA's page "Using the Diabetes Food Pyramid," at http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-recipes/nutrition/foodpyramid.jsp they say: "The Diabetes Food Pyramid divides food into six groups. These groups or sections on the pyramid vary in size. The largest group -- grains, beans, and starchy vegetables -- is on the bottom. This means that you should eat more servings of grains, beans, and starchy vegetables than of any of the other foods. " > On the ADA's page "Using the Diabetes Food Pyramid," at > http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-recipes/nutrition/foodpyramid.jsp [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > you should eat more servings of grains, beans, and starchy vegetables > than of any of the other foods. " Yes, that's what I was referring to. They actually, for no reason based upon good nutritional practices, emphasize carb loading (even at their minimum of 6 starch servings) with starches over and above the amount of nutrient dense vegetables. Why aren't vegetables at the base, if they think diabetics should be eating a carb heavy diet? It boggles. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Susan Here we go again! You are using old, outdated information. On April 19, 2005 the USDA introduced a new system that replaces the old, out of date Food Pyramid. Go to: http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-recipes/nutrition/my-pyramid-response.jsp Once there click on http://www.mypyramid.gov/ to see an animation of this new food system. Don >> Yes, that's what I was referring to. They actually, for no reason based >> upon good nutritional practices, emphasize carb loading (even at their [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-recipes/nutrition/my-pyramid-response.jsp Hi Don Here we go again! You are using old, outdated information. Try this, when we discussed this back in February http://tinyurl.com/luqw7 or earlier when MyPyramid was released in early 2005 http://tinyurl.com/mo8jb But better still, try the Harvard School of Public Health, latest update in 2006. You will accept their credentials for advising people? Or is Harvard School of Public Health not credible when compared with the ADA or the AHA? Of course, even they add a disclaimer, quite correctly: "The aim of the Harvard School of Public Health Nutrition Source is to provide timely information on diet and nutrition for clinicians, allied health professionals, and the public. The contents of this Web site are not intended to offer personal medical advice, which should be obtained from a health-care provider." Good advice, we agree there. Because none of the various pyramids are designed to meed the needs of people with specific dietary needs or allergies - like coeliac disease, or gluten intolerance, or lactose intolerance - or diabetes type 2. Below is why they disagree with MyPyramid. Better still, unlike some who can only criticise, they offer a better alternative. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html "What Should You Really Eat? More than a decade ago, the U.S. Department of Agriculture created a powerful and enduring icon - the Food Guide Pyramid. This simple illustration conveyed in a flash what the USDA said were the elements of a healthy diet. The Pyramid was taught in schools, appeared in countless media articles and brochures, and was plastered on cereal boxes and food labels. Tragically, the information embodied in this pyramid didn't point the way to healthy eating. Why not? Its blueprint was based on shaky scientific evidence, and it barely changed over the years to reflect major advances in our understanding of the connection between diet and health. With much fanfare, the USDA recently retired the old Food Guide Pyramid and replaced it with MyPyramid, a new symbol and "interactive food guidance system." The new symbol is basically the old Pyramid turned on its side. The good news is that this dismantles and buries the flawed Pyramid. The bad news is that the new symbol doesn't convey enough information to help you make informed choices about your diet and long-term health. And it continues to recommend foods that aren't essential to good health, and may even be detrimental in the quantities included in MyPyramid. As an alternative to the USDA's flawed pyramid, faculty members in the Harvard School of Public Health built the Healthy Eating Pyramid." Read the rest. I don't follow any pyramid - but theirs is a far better guide for diabetics than most others I've seen. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. >>> Yes, that's what I was referring to. They actually, for no reason based >>> upon good nutritional practices, emphasize carb loading (even at their [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > or earlier when MyPyramid was released in early 2005 > http://tinyurl.com/mo8jb As it stands "My Pyramid" System is still the new kid on the Official USDA Block. Because you and a few others "discussed" the matter and Harvard came out with their 2 cents worth does not change the fact. "My Pyramid" System is what has replaced the older Food Pyramid. Flawed or not, that's it, at least for now. And while we are on the subject, apparently your "discussion" was not followed or "discussed" by many because those I wrote about were still making reference to the old Food Pyramid. They did not make mention of the "New Pyramid" System nor your "discussed'" whatever. Don >>>>Yes, that's what I was referring to. They actually, for no reason based >>>>upon good nutritional practices, emphasize carb loading (even at their [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > making reference to the old Food Pyramid. They did not make mention of the > "New Pyramid" System nor your "discussed'" whatever. I got my pyramid today on the ADA website, following their link to their nutritional recommendations. If they're out of date, that's their doing. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Susan When was the ADA web-site last updated? What was the URL you used to connect with them? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Food Pyramid put out by the USDA? Don > When was the ADA web-site last updated? > What was the URL you used to connect with them? > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Food Pyramid put out by the USDA? > > Don It said it was their 2005 update on their page. I used their official website with its links. Did you even look at the pyramid I posted from the ADA website? It was their 2005 pyramid, with their recommendation for diabetics to eat mostly starches, 6-11 servings per day. Susan >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Susan I just ignore the USDA Food Pyramid completely. I found right after it came out that it was totally useless and just another load of rot from our bossy government. The only thing that has really worked for me was low carb and test, test, test... along with moderate unsaturated fats and moderate to high protein. Will, T2 >>It said it was their 2005 update on their page. I used their official >>website with its links. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Will, T2 I just checked the ADA website, and while their food pyramid is different from that of the USDA, it still recommends 6-11 servings of grains and starches per day... In my personal experience, that just does not work.... But then, I test, test test... :-) Will, T2 >>x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Will, T2 I believe the ADA recommends 6-11 Carbohydrate count units per day. a carbohydrate count can be a small piced of fruit or an 8 oz. glass of skim milk as well as a starch. Honestly, Susan, I'm sorry about whatever the ADA might have done to you personally, but misrepresenting their guidelines (and that' exactly what they are; guidelines NOT proclimations), doesn't help any newbies here. Newly dx'd T2s are now offered education programs where they work with a Dr., a Diabetes Educator and a Dietician to help put their individual meal plans together. If you haven't gotten that kind of care, maybe you should seek it. It's a lot more sensible than a total condemnation of the entire medical community. Part of the protocol, BTW, is learning how to use one's meter to test for how certain foods effect individuals. I'm certainly no medical expert, but I have gone with DH to Diabetes Education and to several "refresher courses" of the same. There is no set rule for everybody. No wonder that poor Amy is confused. Signature----------- Janet Wilder The Road Princess http://janetwilder.blogspot.com > >>x-no-archive: yes > >> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Part of the protocol, BTW, is learning how to use one's meter to test > for how certain foods effect individuals. And many of us have found that eating even 6 carb units (that's 90 grams of carbohydrate) a day does unacceptable things to our blood sugar. Test, test, test means trusting your blood sugar meter more than you trust a piece of paper from the USDA or the American Diabetes Association. Sure, some folks *can* eat that much carbohydrate, but many of us can't. And, personally, I find it much easier to just count grams of carbohydrate than to count units of 15 grams. I just had a salmon salad wrap for lunch. Between the dill and the scallion, there might have been two grams of carbohydrate in the amount of salmon I ate. The wrap was a low carb tortilla that claims 5 grams of carb. So, I had 7 grams of carbohydrate, or 7/15 of an exchange. (I'd have to pull out a calculator to do that as a decimal.) The more complicated the menu, the harder the arithmetic is, unless you just count the individual carb grams. SignatureAF "Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team." --artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball > I believe the ADA recommends 6-11 Carbohydrate count units per day. a > carbohydrate count can be a small piced of fruit or an 8 oz. glass of > skim milk as well as a starch. Honestly, Susan, I'm sorry about whatever > the ADA might have done to you personally, but misrepresenting their > guidelines (and that' exactly what they are; guidelines NOT > proclimations), doesn't help any newbies here. Go read it, Janet, you've got it wrong. You're woefully misinformed about diets, meds, and the research supporting both or not. You're not in charge (thanks ye gods) of what's helpful to newbies. > Newly dx'd T2s are now offered education programs where they work with a > Dr., a Diabetes Educator and a Dietician to help put their individual > meal plans together. If you haven't gotten that kind of care, maybe you > should seek it. It's a lot more sensible than a total condemnation of > the entire medical community. I've scrupulously avoided that kind of care in order not to end up in your husband's condition, the inevitable result. Or dialysis, like so many other ADA compliant folks I've known. > Part of the protocol, BTW, is learning how to use one's meter to test > for how certain foods effect individuals. I'm certainly no medical > expert, but I have gone with DH to Diabetes Education and to several > "refresher courses" of the same. There is no set rule for everybody. Yes, but the ADA recommended post meal levels are so high that complicactions progress apace. Other authorities worldwide have eschewed such stupidity. The low fat, high starch recommendations have been found everytime they've been studied, to promote bad bg control and CVD risk elevations. If you want to toe a scientifically unsupported party line that's your business. Some of us don't have decades to wait for the ADA to get with the science; we want to keep our health, not manage our flagging health with pills and insulin if not necessary. > No wonder that poor Amy is confused. Folks like you, who don't even know what the recommendations are that you're promoting make things confusing, perhaps. I think telling folks a simple, personally empowering thing like "eat to your meter" is completely unambiguous. So do many diabetes experts, notably the most current endocrinologists, though there are some dinosaurs out there managing their ever worsening patients with more and more drugs. We all make choices in life. Susan >>x-no-archive: yes >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Will, T2 Five things I would like to point out that seems to get avoided mentioning on this newsgroup. 1. The old Food Pyramid instructions stated we needed from 6 to 11 servings of foods from the bottom tier, but went on to state that most people would probably want to consume the lesser servings rather than the most. 2. The serving sizes are also very small. 3. The number of servings and the serving sizes are not written in stone. They are just reasonable recommendations for the average person. 4. Diabetics should not consider themselves average. They have special dietary needs and as such they should consider consuming maybe 4 or 5 servings of the foods listed of the bottom tier daily rather than 6, and they should also consider reducing the serving sizes. 5. The same should be considered for the other tiers on the Food Pyramid as well. Test, test, test is a good motto, but so is think, think, think! Don > >>x-no-archive: yes > >> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Test, test, test is a good motto, but so is think, think, think! Don, Don't get too frustrated with this (been there, done that) because the reality of this newsgroup is that most do think, think, think. Only a couple hate, hate, hate. I've come to find that most in here, whether they are fans of the ADA or not, are aware that the ADA guidelines are just that and not some sort of law written in stone. I've shown, as you and others have, that what they really say is twisted and distorted by a couple of rotten apples here who choose to ignore the fact that just about every guideline the ADA posts comes with the advisement that everyone is different and one must work with their doctor to find out their particular needs. The food pyramid is a big blueprint and we will all no doubt have a different looking house once we're done building it. My way of eating is actually closer to the Harvard Pyramid, but I don't follow that one "exactly" either. I've found what works for me. Many in here don't eat the way I do, or even how I think other diabetics should eat, but they have reported being very successful with their diets and I say more power to them. However, there are a couple in here who have a personal grudge against the ADA and will distort what they have to say and make wild accusations against them to further their conspiracy of hate. One good example of the misdleading statements made in here regards the ADA's advice about A1c. Some will say "the ADA recommends 7% A1c is good control. However, that's not the whole quote. In fact, the ADA pretty much says what most people in here believe, that the closer you can keep your A1c to normal range, the lower the chances of getting complications. Here is the quote from their site: "The better your glucose control, the less likely you are to develop complications of diabetes. An A1C in the sevens (7s), however, does not represent good control. The ADA goal is less than 7 percent. The closer your A1C is to the normal range (less than 6 percent), the lower your chances of complications. However, you increase your risk of hypoglycemia, especially if you have type 1 diabetes. Talk with your health care provider about the best goal for you." You, Janet, Morris, Tom, and many others see things differently when it comes to the ADA and I think there is room here for "all" opinions and success stories. There are some Type 2's in here, who don't particularly believe the way I do, that I have learned a lot from and have changed my mind regarding a couple of things the ADA recommends. And they did that without calling me a shill, too! If I didn't dislike FOX news so much I would almost say that it's important for us here to be "fair and balanced"! :) Best, Kurt >> >>x-no-archive: yes >> >> [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > Best, > Kurt Disliking FOX news is another thing we agree on! I have no great love or respect for the ADA nor the AMA. But I have much more respect for those organizations than I do for those in this newsgroup who, in the interest of trying to make themselves feel important, tell lies and halve truths to all of us, and when we call them on their lies, they call us trouble makers, trolls and spammers who just like to argue. One good thing I have notices lately...more and more people are standing up to them and not allowing them to force their misinformation and hate on them. Don >You, Janet, Morris, Tom, and many others see things differently when it >comes to the ADA and I think there is room here for "all" opinions and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Best, >Kurt Hello, Kurt You just struck a chord with me:-) I loathe Fox news... Unless one is into intellectual suicide, and in favor of Bush sycophants, Fox is poison! You know how your eyes sometimes play tricks upon you? Well, since I became partly blind, mine really play tricks on me. I glanced a headline this morning that said something about Moses and the Burning Bush... At first, I took it to mean something about W. on fire! Ha! Glad tidings, what? Will, T2 >>You, Janet, Morris, Tom, and many others see things differently when it >>comes to the ADA and I think there is room here for "all" opinions and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Will, T2 Another person that dislikes FOX, and one that thinks of Bush as I do. Don n>snipppp..... >>>particularly believe the way I do, that I have learned a lot from and >>>have changed my mind regarding a couple of things the ADA recommends. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Don Hello, Don I just knew there was something I liked about you! :-) I do think we are mostly on the same page, although I do also think the ADA is much behind the current research in |
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