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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / April 2006

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diabetic friendly shoes?

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BessieBee - 29 Mar 2006 14:47 GMT
This summer I'll be spending a week to 10 days traveling through
Europe.  We have no set itinerary, other than flying in and out of
Frankfurt.  My sister and I will be renting a car and traveling
wherever the mood strikes.

I want to buy a pair of good walking shoes, but not a pair that will
break the bank.  I looked at a local shoe store yesterday and the two
brands of shoes that seem to be just what I want (SAS and something
else) were over $120!  That's WAY over my budget.

Can anyone recommend a brand that's more budget friendly, and offers
good support, etc?  I'm going to get a pair far enough ahead of time
to make sure they're completely broken in before I leave.

Any other suggestions for a T2 traveling in Europe?

Thanks,

BessieBee
Susan - 29 Mar 2006 15:10 GMT
> This summer I'll be spending a week to 10 days traveling through
> Europe.  We have no set itinerary, other than flying in and out of
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> BessieBee

Good walking shoes are expensive.  If you have a Bob's Store near you,
they have a great discount shoe dept, with a large selection of shoes
for each kind of activity.

Or shop at zappos.com or shoebuy.com or shoedini.com for the ones you
saw in the store and see if prices are better.

If you can't afford high end, Ryka and even Skechers are surprisingly
comfortable for me when I'm on my feet a lot, and lots of folks love
Rockport walkers for long walking tours.  Mephistos are reportedly the
gold standard, but spendy.

Susan
Julie Bove - 29 Mar 2006 17:38 GMT
> Good walking shoes are expensive.  If you have a Bob's Store near you,
> they have a great discount shoe dept, with a large selection of shoes
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Rockport walkers for long walking tours.  Mephistos are reportedly the
> gold standard, but spendy.

I can vouch for the Ryka.  Bought three pairs on Ebay a few years ago, all
for less than $20 a pair.  I've never tried the Skechers because I need a
wide width.  I know they make a few styles in wide, but I've yet to find
any.

Signature

See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm

jacquie - 29 Mar 2006 23:49 GMT
I always have trouble with shoes...you ought to see the shoes in my closet
that rarely get worn:) The other day My DIL and I were shopping in
Scottsdale and went into Macy's. I needed to find some open toed sandal as
she had just treated me to a pedicure and I forgot to pack my sandals and I
didn't want the polish to get messed up. Anyways I found some ECCO's....Yep
they were expensive but I found out they are the most comfy shoes I
have...we walked for awhile and even though my knees hurt my feet stayed
comfy. I know allot of diabetics don't wear sandles but living in AZ they
keep the feet cooler...

> Good walking shoes are expensive.  If you have a Bob's Store near you,
> they have a great discount shoe dept, with a large selection of shoes
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Rockport walkers for long walking tours.  Mephistos are reportedly the
> gold standard, but spendy.

I can vouch for the Ryka.  Bought three pairs on Ebay a few years ago, all
for less than $20 a pair.  I've never tried the Skechers because I need a
wide width.  I know they make a few styles in wide, but I've yet to find
any.

Signature

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http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm

louisejoi - 29 Mar 2006 15:24 GMT
> This summer I'll be spending a week to 10 days traveling through
> Europe.  We have no set itinerary, other than flying in and out of
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> good support, etc?  I'm going to get a pair far enough ahead of time
> to make sure they're completely broken in before I leave.

Look in discount stores such as Marshall's, TJ Maxx, Ross, etc.  The
selection can be spotty, but I've always had good luck.  They tend to carry
leftovers from last season, but that shouldn't matter if you're looking for
comfort and good fit.  I like New Balance and Clarke.

Also major department stores such as Macy's have sales all the time.  My
husband likes a certain type of Rockport walker and we always wait for a
sale.  It's a $100 shoe and we pay $45.

Be careful of outlets.  Sometimes the shoes are made for the outlets and
they may look identical to the more expensive shoe.  But may not be real
leather which is what you want for breathability.

Good luck and have fun!

Signature

Best wishes,
Louise

Type 2 since 2000
Controlling by exercise and diet
and now metformin!

Billie - 29 Mar 2006 15:27 GMT
BessieBee......... my husband said, "Welcome to the club."   :o)  I have found some really good
ones but they are all in the upper price range.  Ecco is one really good one that also looks
good, too.  It is the brand of my summer sandals, which are also good walking shoes.  Right now
I am wearing Joseph Seibel shoes which are wonderful, but in that over $120 price.  I have very
serious neuropathy so must treat my feet probably better than any other part of my body, both
from a pain standpoint as well as a good care standpoint.

Good luck, girl!!!  I do so envy you your trip.  I had always been looking forward to my
husband's retiring so we could travel as we did way back during his Air Force days, but to
places *we* choose and not someone else.  BAH........... my conglomerate of illnesses decided to
all gang up on me at the same time, and now traveling is not only a real *pain* in the feet and
legs, but it also worsens some of the other things as well!  My trip to Ohio from Arkansas took
me two days to recoup after I got there, and it was about time to head for home when I got to
feeling pretty good.  Made me soooo mad!  Those great grandbabies were fabulous, and I didn't
want to leave them!

bh-wages at swbell.net

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

: This summer I'll be spending a week to 10 days traveling through
: Europe.  We have no set itinerary, other than flying in and out of
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
:
: BessieBee
louisejoi - 29 Mar 2006 15:53 GMT
> BessieBee......... my husband said, "Welcome to the club."   :o)  I have found some really good
> ones but they are all in the upper price range.  Ecco is one really good one that also looks
> good, too.  It is the brand of my summer sandals, which are also good walking shoes.  Right now
> I am wearing Joseph Seibel shoes which are wonderful, but in that over $120 price.  I have very
> serious neuropathy so must treat my feet probably better than any other part of my body, both
> from a pain standpoint as well as a good care standpoint.

Check out those discount places I mentioned in my other post for good deals.
I also swear by Ecco shoes and picked up a couple pair last year at
Marshall's for $32 each.  You're right...they look good and are sooooo
comfortable.  I've been wearing them to work all winter.  Marshalls also had
some Seibels.

Signature

Best wishes,
Louise

Type 2 since 2000
Controlling by exercise and diet
and now metformin!

Billie - 29 Mar 2006 16:51 GMT
Oh, Louise, Marshalls.  Oh, do I have good, fond memories of shopping at Marshalls in the early
80's.  I could buy the name-brand clothes that my early teen daughter was so interested in,
spending many hours going through piece by piece, and finding out when they were expecting
shipments.  It brings up one sweet, pungent memory in '84.  My 16 y/o son had worked all summer,
saving up enough to buy his own school clothes the following fall.  He went to Marshalls to do
his shopping.  :o) (learned *something* from mom anyway :)  Weeks later on October 5th, he was
killed in an automobile accident.  I never pass a Marshalls that I do not have a quick sweet
memory moment of him.

Billie in AR, with a smile on her face remembering Robert 22 years later

bh-wages at swbell.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

: Check out those discount places I mentioned in my other post for good deals.
: I also swear by Ecco shoes and picked up a couple pair last year at
: Marshall's for $32 each.  You're right...they look good and are sooooo
: comfortable.  I've been wearing them to work all winter.  Marshalls also had
: some Seibels.
louisejoi - 29 Mar 2006 19:26 GMT
> Oh, Louise, Marshalls.  Oh, do I have good, fond memories of shopping at Marshalls in the early
> 80's.  I could buy the name-brand clothes that my early teen daughter was so interested in,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Billie in AR, with a smile on her face remembering Robert 22 years later

Billie, I can't even imagine your loss.  The good memories must make it
somehow bearable.

Signature

Best wishes,
Louise

Type 2 since 2000
Controlling by exercise and diet
and now metformin!

Billie - 29 Mar 2006 23:00 GMT
Louise, I thought I could never deal with the loss of a child, but when it actually happened, I
found that I really could do it.  There were some unsettled years afterwards, but time really
did make things better.  Helping the other children cope put the pressure on to survive.  There
was no time to curl into a ball and withdraw like I felt sometimes.  Amazing what we're able to
do whenever necessary.  :o)  It had a strong impact on his siblings, but today they are okay,
and probably stronger persons because of it, especially my daughter as she is raising two girls,
one a teen, and the other a pre-teen where she has less control on their activities.  His
accident was on the way to a school related event, all on the up and up.

Billie

Signature

bh-wages at swbell.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

: > Oh, Louise, Marshalls.  Oh, do I have good, fond memories of shopping at
: Marshalls in the early
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
: Billie, I can't even imagine your loss.  The good memories must make it
: somehow bearable.
Freckles - 29 Mar 2006 16:05 GMT
> This summer I'll be spending a week to 10 days traveling through
> Europe.  We have no set itinerary, other than flying in and out of
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> BessieBee

You can find diabetic shoes, socks and all kinds of information about taking
care of you feet at the URL below.

The shoes shown are priced from about $100.00 to just over $250.00. They may
have other less expensive shoes available if you ask for them.

I bought a pair of the least expensive shoes they had in stock about six
months ago and they are the most comfortable shoes I have ever worn. The
have been comfortable from day one and have not required any breaking in
period.

I was reluctant to buy shoes on-line without being able to try them on
first, but they fit fine, look good and feel great.

The URL is:

http://www.healthyfeetstore.com/pwminorshoes.html

Don
Wooly - 29 Mar 2006 16:44 GMT
>I want to buy a pair of good walking shoes, but not a pair that will
>break the bank.  

A $150 investment now can mean that you don't buy shoes for two years.
A $30 investment may end up being junk that has to be replaced every
2-3 months.  Which is the more frugal choice?

>I looked at a local shoe store yesterday and the two
>brands of shoes that seem to be just what I want (SAS and something
>else) were over $120!  That's WAY over my budget.

At risk of coming across with a tone I don't intend: if you can afford
tickets to Frankfurt and the cost of a rental car, plus accomodations
and food, it seems that you should be able to afford a pair of
well-made comfortable shoes to wear on your trip.

>Can anyone recommend a brand that's more budget friendly, and offers
>good support, etc?

I'm partial to Birkenstocks.  In the basic Birk line all of the
footbeds are the same (regular/wide, or narrow) so its a matter of
finding a pair with an upper suitable to your taste and your wearing
requirements.  The cork footbeds mold themselves to your feet with
wear, provide excellent support and don't object to tromping through
puddles if they're allowed to recover overnight.    There are other
Birkenstock "lines" that include dressy and sporty shoes, as examples.
The footbeds vary slightly but they all provide great support and
comfort.

The "Milano" sandal is a good choice as a walking shoe. The straps are
all adjustable, the uppers are available in both leather and
"pleather", they're modestly priced at $100, and with proper care
you'll wear them for years.  The closed-foot shoes (oxfords, slip-ons)
cost more but again, the shoes will last for years with proper care.

Earth Shoes (not the Walmart version!) are another good choice for
walking shoes.  They've got a slight negative heel which moves your
weight back onto your heels (where it ought to be), the footbeds are
contoured for support and they'll last for years if you take care of
them.  They do take some getting used to if you're accustomed to
wearing a heeled shoe.  Earth Shoe prices start at about $90

If you your arches aren't flat, if you aren't prone to stress
fractures, and if you don't have plantar fasciatis you might look at
Crocs.  They're made of foamed silicone rubber, are waterproof, can be
worn with the heel strap up or down, and come in a wide variety of
colors.  The footbeds are squashy so conform to your foot shape while
you're wearing them.  The downside is they're VERY flexible and they
aren't puncture-proof.  They are comfortable, especially if you'll be
semi-stationary but on your feet for long periods of time.  They're OK
for day-long shopping trips but I don't know if I'd want to wear them
every day for a couple of weeks.  If you order directly from the
manufacturer you can choose your specific size and you'll pay about
$40.  

+++++++++++++

Reply to the list as I do not publish an email address to USENET.
This practice has cut my spam by more than 95%.  
Of course, I did have to abandon a perfectly good email account...
louisejoi - 29 Mar 2006 20:29 GMT
> >I want to buy a pair of good walking shoes, but not a pair that will
> >break the bank.
>
> A $150 investment now can mean that you don't buy shoes for two years.
> A $30 investment may end up being junk that has to be replaced every
> 2-3 months.  Which is the more frugal choice?

If you have the time and skills to shop for bargains you can find quality
shoes at good prices.  I think that's how most of us have been trying to
help her.  I hardly ever pay full price for shoes, but I only wear quality
shoes that fit perfectly.  That said, when I find a shoe I really like, I
might buy another pair or 2 at full price in case they're discontinued.

> I'm partial to Birkenstocks.  In the basic Birk line all of the
> footbeds are the same (regular/wide, or narrow) so its a matter of
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> The footbeds vary slightly but they all provide great support and
> comfort.

Birkenstocks are wonderful.  I wear the "Florida" sandal around the house in
the summer.  Very comfortable and great arch support.  And I got them on
sale!

Signature

Best wishes,
Louise

Type 2 since 2000
Controlling by exercise and diet
and now metformin!

Billie - 29 Mar 2006 23:09 GMT
Louise, I have the time and skill, but my body put a crimp in this shop-till-you-drop woman's
life!  We're working now to get me a motorized scooter or wheelchair.  It is just not as much
fun shopping with a man along at every step, and especially when you are dependent on where he
pushes you!  LOL

Billie
Signature


bh-wages at swbell.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

: If you have the time and skills to shop for bargains you can find quality
: shoes at good prices.  I think that's how most of us have been trying to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
: the summer.  Very comfortable and great arch support.  And I got them on
: sale!
Susan - 29 Mar 2006 16:47 GMT
> This summer I'll be spending a week to 10 days traveling through
> Europe.  We have no set itinerary, other than flying in and out of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Any other suggestions for a T2 traveling in Europe?

I just remembered another brand that I love to hike in, and most folks
find them incredibly comfortable for a modest price: Merrells.

Susan
Chris Malcolm - 30 Mar 2006 15:48 GMT
>> This summer I'll be spending a week to 10 days traveling through
>> Europe.  We have no set itinerary, other than flying in and out of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>>
>> Any other suggestions for a T2 traveling in Europe?

> I just remembered another brand that I love to hike in, and most folks
> find them incredibly comfortable for a modest price: Merrells.

This is the time of year in the UK that many outdoor shops have sales
of last year's boot and shoe models, Merrells included. Check if sales
are on in your area.

If you're going to do a lot of walking, a good anti-blister tip is to
wear a thin slippy pair of socks inside your general purpose walking
sock. The rubbing friction then occurs between the two socks rather
than between foot and sock, thus considerably reducing blistering
tendencies. Some folk (including me) also find that taking vit E in at
least 400IU/day doses considerably reduces one's liability to
blistering of hands and feet with unaccustomed extra work.

Signature

Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

bj - 29 Mar 2006 17:10 GMT
> This summer I'll be spending a week to 10 days traveling through
> Europe.  We have no set itinerary, other than flying in and out of
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> brands of shoes that seem to be just what I want (SAS and something
> else) were over $120!  That's WAY over my budget.

If you can't find anything suitable that costs less -- readjust your
thinking. Think of the cost of shoes as part of your *travel* budget, not
your "shoe" budget.

It's a lot cheaper than fixing your feet later, not to mention the
hurting-feet along the way -- you do want to *enjoy* your trip, right?

Don't forget to buy several pair of good sox to go along with those good
shoes.

And if you think those shoes are expensive, wait'll you see the price of gas
in Europe!
bj
Julie Bove - 29 Mar 2006 17:35 GMT
> This summer I'll be spending a week to 10 days traveling through
> Europe.  We have no set itinerary, other than flying in and out of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Any other suggestions for a T2 traveling in Europe?

Good shoes will not be cheap, nor will they have to be broken in if they fit
properly!  I wear mainly New Balance and Birkenstock.  I buy discontinued
styles online because they're cheaper. Here is a link to New Balance:

http://www.nbwebexpress.com/default_c.htm?src=301

Here's a link for Birkenstock:

http://psne.com/

Birkenstock are generally more expensive, but you can sometimes find your
size on clearance.

You might also try doing a search of SAS shoes online, if you know what size
you wear.  Try them on in the store for fit first.  I've found shoes on Ebay
sometimes or other sources.  This is a good way to get discontinued styles
or colors for a good price.  Try the search engine froogle.com.

Signature

See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm

BessieBee - 29 Mar 2006 20:56 GMT
>Any other suggestions for a T2 traveling in Europe?
>
>Thanks,
>
>BessieBee

Many thanks to all who've posted a reply.  Just to make things clear:
I'm prepared to pay whatever is necessary for comfortable walking
shoes, but I don't want to pay any more than is necessary.  I've got a
fixed budget for this trip and if I end up spending $100+ for shoes
it'll just mean that much less for souvenirs, meals, etc.  We're
traveling with as little "baggage" as possible and I'm taking only one
pair of shoes with me.  I'll put them on before leaving for the
airport here, and other than times I'm asleep I'll have them on the
entire trip.  

I'm leary of shopping for shoes online, but might give it a try.  I
live in a small town and the closest mall & big stores are about an
hour's drive from here.  I'll be making a trek to the mall soon, but
want to have some idea what I'm looking for before I make the trip.

And, for the record, online searches show that a car rental is less
expensive than a Eurail pass.  We'll be there at the most 15 days, a
15 day Eurail pass is just over $500 each.  A car rental (for 12 days)
is a bit over $350 total.  Of course, we'll have to figure in the cost
of gas, but with a car we'll have complete freedom to choose where we
want to go within our time limits.  

We don't plan on staying anywhere fancy, we'll be searching out bed &
breakfasts and pensione and youth hostel type places in smaller towns.
This is my first trip to Europe, and may be my only trip there.  About
16 years ago my sister, with whom I'm traveling, spent a year in
Europe with nothing more than the backpack she left home with.  So,
we're both not neophytes to European travel.

I'll be checking out *all* the website suggested and really do
appreciate the time you all took with your suggestions!  Thank you!

BessieBee
Chakolate - 29 Mar 2006 21:47 GMT
> Can anyone recommend a brand that's more budget friendly, and offers
> good support, etc?  I'm going to get a pair far enough ahead of time
> to make sure they're completely broken in before I leave.

The trouble is that we don't know what sort of foot you have.  If you're
an over-pronator (and your heels wear down on the inside edge) you need
good arch support.  If you're an under-pronator (heels wear down on the
outside edge) you need a flexible sole, one that's slip-lasted or at most
half-lasted.  

If you google 'pronation' you'll get a ton of hits.  When you figure out
what sort of shoe you want, go to ebay. I'm an underpronator (also called
supinator) and I need a flexible, cushioned shoe.  Saucony is an
excellent brand for me, and I can get them on ebay for around $20, s&h
included.  

You may think that if you've never heard of pronation it can't make much
difference in how a shoe feels.  At least, that's what I thought.  Until
I bought a pair of Sauconys and found foot heaven.  :-)

Best of luck to you in this,

Chak

Signature

Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided
missiles and misguided men.
 --Martin Luther King Jr.

Anon - 29 Mar 2006 23:08 GMT
If your not having problems with your feet (diabetic problems), any good
walking shoes would go a long way towards making your trip more enjoyable.
My daughter and her family get their shoes at the outlet stores. They often
have specials there for half price or less.

I get special diabetic shoes and Medicare pays for them. They are not cheap,
I just got the Medicare Summary Notice for my shoes this year. The total
cost of shoes and inserts was $401.76.

Anon

> This summer I'll be spending a week to 10 days traveling through
> Europe.  We have no set itinerary, other than flying in and out of
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> BessieBee
~ M.Kiff ~ - 31 Mar 2006 03:24 GMT
Because you have diabetes, you no doubt have a podiatrist.  If you are
old enough to receive Medicare  then you can get especially fitted shoes
and insoles free of all charges.  My Dr. has a catalog and I chose SAS.
You can get 3 pairs of insoles (I think every 6 months) and a new pair
of shoes, once a year. As  Anon said, these are very expensive,  but
won't cost you a cent.    MKiff
BessieBee - 31 Mar 2006 04:03 GMT
>Because you have diabetes, you no doubt have a podiatrist.  If you are
>old enough to receive Medicare  then you can get especially fitted shoes
>and insoles free of all charges.  My Dr. has a catalog and I chose SAS.
>You can get 3 pairs of insoles (I think every 6 months) and a new pair
>of shoes, once a year. As  Anon said, these are very expensive,  but
>won't cost you a cent.    MKiff

I'm not old enough for Medicare (54 in Feb.) and don't have a
podiatrist - yet.  I've don't have any problems with my feet, no
neuropathy or healing problems, but I want to stay ahead of the game
and KEEP my feet in good shape.  Besides, when my feet hurt the rest
of me hurts, not even mentioning what sore feet do to my attitude. :-)

Now I'm wondering, though... I've got good coverage through Blue Cross
(through work - main reason I keep this job) and I wonder if I've got
any coverage there for "diabetic" shoes.  I think I'll check that out
tomorrow.

BessieBee
Alexander Arnakis - 31 Mar 2006 05:51 GMT
>Because you have diabetes, you no doubt have a podiatrist.  If you are
>old enough to receive Medicare  then you can get especially fitted shoes
>and insoles free of all charges.  My Dr. has a catalog and I chose SAS.
>You can get 3 pairs of insoles (I think every 6 months) and a new pair
>of shoes, once a year. As  Anon said, these are very expensive,  but
>won't cost you a cent.    MKiff

What are the criteria for prescription "diabetic" shoes? Do you have
to have a history of neuropathy, unhealed foot ulcers, etc., or is it
enough simply to be diabetic?

The way I see it, wearing regular shoes, and being careful with your
feet, might obviate the need for "diabetic" shoes later.
Freckles - 31 Mar 2006 06:45 GMT
>>Because you have diabetes, you no doubt have a podiatrist.  If you are
>>old enough to receive Medicare  then you can get especially fitted shoes
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> The way I see it, wearing regular shoes, and being careful with your
> feet, might obviate the need for "diabetic" shoes later.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I recently bought a pair of
diabetic shoes and several pairs of diabetic socks.
My feet were hurting a lot so I decided to try diabetic shoes and socks in
hopes for even a little relief.

Buying them turned out to be one of the wisest things I have ever done.

The shoes and the socks fit great from day one and have helped to reduce the
pain more than I had dared hope.
Do I still have foot pain? Yes, but not nearly as bad as it used to be.

As my BG numbers went down, the pain got worse. Now that I have had my BG
under control for a few months the pain is subsiding and I hope one day it
will go away entirely?

The shoes and socks were not cheap, but I'd gladly pay much more, if I could
afford it, for the relief I have gotten.

Don
Susan - 31 Mar 2006 15:00 GMT
> As my BG numbers went down, the pain got worse. Now that I have had my BG
> under control for a few months the pain is subsiding and I hope one day it
> will go away entirely?

I don't know if it will work for you the way it did for me, but by low
carbing, I got my PNs from pain to a numbish tingling.  I added time
released alpha lipoic acid, 300mg 2X per day, and it was gone completely
within 3 mos.

The year before last, I'd really gone off plan over the holidays and
some burning came back; good diet and 1200 mg per day of alpha lipoic
had it gone within a week.

YMMV, of course.

Susan
Loretta Eisenberg - 30 Mar 2006 00:42 GMT
BessieBee, have you tried Easy Spirit.

Loretta

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
Dennis R - 30 Mar 2006 04:04 GMT
> This summer I'll be spending a week to 10 days traveling through
> Europe.  We have no set itinerary, other than flying in and out of
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> BessieBee
I wish I could get SAS shoes for $120 US ($145 CAN). Mine were $200 CAN
plus $30 CAN taxes, and worth every penny. I use to get Hush Puppy brand
leather shoes for $90 CAN and they would be trashed in nine months. I
have worn my one pair of SAS shoes daily for three straight years now by
changing the removable insoles ($30 CAN) every year. That is fairly
economical in the long run. I have had trouble getting properly fitting
shoes most of my life (9 1/2 EEEE), and have wasted a fortune on
"economical" shoes.

That being said, I can understand your dilemma. Have you looked at a
good quality of "walking" runners such as New Balance brand? They did
nothing for me, but many people swear by them. Rockport and Clarke are
two other brands I have heard mentioned.

Dennis (Type 2)
Julie Bove - 30 Mar 2006 11:55 GMT
<snip>

> That being said, I can understand your dilemma. Have you looked at a
> good quality of "walking" runners such as New Balance brand? They did
> nothing for me, but many people swear by them. Rockport and Clarke are
> two other brands I have heard mentioned.

I can't speak for the quality of Rockport shoes today.  I did have a pair
that I bought after I had my baby.  No shoes would fit me.  My feet had
gotten both longer and wider.  I was living on Cape Cod at the time and in
an area with limited places to buy shoes.  I found a pair of Rockport and
that was all I could wear for about a year.  Then I got my feet measured and
realized I'd been wearing the wrong size and width.  No problems with those
shoes other than that they hurt my feet from being the wrong size.

But years before that, I tried Rockport shoes twice.  My dad and brother
swore by them. But I didn't like mine.  They were uncomfortable and gave me
blisters.  I mentioned this to the shoe dept. manager where I worked.  We
didn't sell this brand, but they were what he wore.  He then told me that
his mom had the same problem with her shoes.  She had bought them for a
walking tour in Europe and she'd had to buy another pair of shoes along the
way because she had so many blisters.

He then examined the shoes.  He discovered that the seams were not finished
on the inside as they were on the men's shoes.  And the soles were different
than the men's shoes.  For some reason, the men's shoes seemed to be of
higher quality than the women's.

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Alexander Arnakis - 30 Mar 2006 06:51 GMT
>This summer I'll be spending a week to 10 days traveling through
>Europe.  We have no set itinerary, other than flying in and out of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Any other suggestions for a T2 traveling in Europe?

Besides the subjective criterion of "comfort," you need to think about
how the shoes might protect you from things that might be the
beginnings of diabetic foot problems. Small injuries might be slow to
heal, and might lead to gangrene and amputation.

Therefore, wear only closed styles. Avoid sandals and other "open"
styles. Circulating air might be nice in preventing athlete's foot,
but for a diabetic, mechanical injury is worse. Never, ever, go
barefoot, *especially* on the beach. The shoe soles should be thick
and sturdy; you're going to encounter sharp rocks, etc.

Ankle support is very important. You don't want to twist your foot and
sprain your ankle.

Blisters are another thing to be avoided at all costs. The shoes must
be well fitting, and well broken-in. You might consider having an old
pair resoled for the trip -- but wear them ahead of time so you don't
get any surprises.
Susan - 30 Mar 2006 13:35 GMT
> Therefore, wear only closed styles. Avoid sandals and other "open"
> styles. Circulating air might be nice in preventing athlete's foot,
> but for a diabetic, mechanical injury is worse. Never, ever, go
> barefoot, *especially* on the beach. The shoe soles should be thick
> and sturdy; you're going to encounter sharp rocks, etc.

I just don't get this advice; I always wear open shoes or sandals in
warm weather, if I'm not plain barefoot.  I have no healing problems,
and fungi are more likely to occur on feet that are always enclosed in
shoes.

Susan
W.M.McKee - 30 Mar 2006 13:43 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Susan

Hello folks,

Susan has a valid point, I think, as well as those who advocate closed
shoes... Just as I would not advocate sandals for trail hiking and
mountain climbing, I should  think that sandals would be very
appropriate for casual wear in situations where there are not so many
hazards to the feet. Sandals can offer significant protection and
comfort, while providing better ventilation to fungus prone feet.
Again, as in matters of diet, I suggest it comes down to the situation
and common sense.

Will, T2
Chris Malcolm - 30 Mar 2006 16:04 GMT
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>
>>Susan

> Hello folks,

> Susan has a valid point, I think, as well as those who advocate closed
> shoes... Just as I would not advocate sandals for trail hiking and
> mountain climbing, I should  think that sandals would be very
> appropriate for casual wear in situations where there are not so many
> hazards to the feet.

Actually I advocate sandals for trail hiking and mountain climbing,
provided there are designed for the job. Teva, for example, do some
very open very grippy sandals which are very good for trail hiking and
scrambling, provided you've got tought feet and ankles. Over a long
hike there's a lot of work in moving the feet back and forth, up and
down, and having lighter footwear really makes a big difference to how
fast you can move without tiring.

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wmmckee@cox.net - 30 Mar 2006 17:12 GMT
> Teva, for example, do some
> very open very grippy sandals which are very good for trail hiking and
> scrambling, provided you've got tought feet and ankles.

Thanks, Chris. I was not aware that there were such sandals that would be
good for that kind of rugged wear. I'll have to check them out! :-)

Will, T2
Billie - 30 Mar 2006 20:56 GMT
Will, I think that was determined long before the sandals of today.  I have an excellent pair of
Eccos.  As Chris pointed out they are making much more secured sandals today; they are almost
like shoes but with the ventilation of sandals, and lots of support.  Mine are also velcro
adjustable, so that helps whenever my feet swell.  No longer can I wear shoes that have any
tapering to the toes at all.  That is why I am wearing Joseph Seibels now.  Even though I do not
actually walk, and am in the wheelchair, my feet will hurt as if I had been walking on them all
day whenever we are gone for a day like for appointments in Memphis.  I think it is because they
are not used to being in the *down* position; I have to keep them elevated to prevent swelling.

Though I have very severe neuropathy of my feet, along with drop foot (not sure if that is
neuropathy or sciatica related), and the weight of shoes - any weight shoes - causes me to loose
my balance, and trip on my feet.  I've had several falls like that, and with my osteoporosis,
falling is not something *I* need to be doing.  I can protect my feet better than I can my whole
body.  *s*  Also, I do not walk any further than to the bathroom and back so it's not like I'm
exposing myself to much danger (I'll have to count the steps next time I think of it .........
probably not more than 50 steps a day :).  Life would be oh, so dull without all of its
challenges.  I've had battles with my feet for way long before I knew I had diabetes, never
knowing it was neuropathy that I was dealing with.

bh-wages at swbell.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

: >x-no-archive: yes
: >
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
:
: Will, T2
wmmckee@cox.net - 30 Mar 2006 22:37 GMT
> Will, I think that was determined long before the sandals of today.  I
> have an excellent pair of
> Eccos.  As Chris pointed out they are making much more secured sandals
> today; they are almost
> like shoes but with the ventilation of sandals, and lots of support.

So nice to hear from you, Billie! Sorry to hear about your foot problems.
You have been a real trooper for so long, I know. Maybe I ought to try
sandals this Spring... Right now, my relaxing shoes are some very
comfortable sneakers that I have had for a couple of years. They are so
comfy that they are like dear old friends! I have a little neuropathy in one
foot, but that is all, so far....

I hope you are having a good afternoon today. It got up to 63 F here on the
East Coast, in the mid-Atlantic region.

Will, T2
Billie - 30 Mar 2006 23:04 GMT
I was wondering about your weather when I was writing to you.  Jim said it is up in the 70's out
there today.  We are located right where the gulf stream(?) swoops down southward, moving on up
and out and eastward towards you.  We get more of the artic air than they do in Memphis usually;
our temps being about 5 degrees cooler.  We get less of the sleet and icy weather than they do,
except this winter there really hasn't been any really bad weather.  I bought me a long, nice
robe over the holidays, but it just hasn't been cold enough to wear it.  We keep it pretty cool
in here; I run the ac some even in winter, but it is because my body's thermostat is all out of
whack, and then the Prednisone added to that doesn't make it any better.  Poor Jim, I nearly
freeze him out.  LOL  He's a good sport, though, and understands.

How is your daughter doing these days.  My 16 y/o that has the emotional/mental problems came
bustling in last night looking for something to eat.  I'd just given her money earlier to get
something, but at 6'2" it doesn't last long.  LOL  She is doing pretty good.  There are some
things that we feel she needs to be having done for her, but we are trying to stay out of things
as much as possible.  She is still legally our daughter, but she is living with her mother.  One
reason she was here, too, was that "mom" was not at home, she tried calling her with no reply,
and had no idea where "mom" was.  We do not feel that a 16 y/o, and one with her problems needs
to be left hanging like that.  She scares easily whenever her support base is not there, hence
the visit from her.  Thank goodness we live just one block from them.   *s*

Thank you for your nice comments.  I have lived with chronic pain for so long that I often do
not even realize it, and almost never let it get me down too much.  It *is* a day-to-day
experience, though, just like all the rest of our stuff.

Cyber hugs,
Billie

bh-wages at swbell.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

:: So nice to hear from you, Billie! Sorry to hear about your foot problems.
: You have been a real trooper for so long, I know. Maybe I ought to try
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
:
: Will, T2
W.M.McKee - 31 Mar 2006 14:19 GMT
>How is your daughter doing these days.  My 16 y/o that has the emotional/mental problems came
>bustling in last night looking for something to eat.  I'd just given her money earlier to get
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>Cyber hugs,
>Billie

Hello Billie,

Thanks for asking. Rachel is doing OK this week, as far as I know. She
is still in Huntsville, AL,  with her mother, because of the proximity
to her doctors, but we are still hoping to get her up here this
Spring... I will probably talk with her on the phone tomorrow...

I know what you mean about 16 yr olds needing supervision, expecilly
if they have those sorts of problems... It is enough to make a
concerned parent/grandparent go crazy with concern, I am sure.

Well, I hope you have a great day, Billie. It is supposed to be in the
low 70's here today.

I go in for my retina exam early this afternoon....

Will, T2
Ma¢k - 31 Mar 2006 04:02 GMT
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>Will, T2

Until you experience loss of feeling in your toes and feet and then
suffer an injury due to impact with an object that you did not feel,
don't preach that line of reasoning.  It will come back to haunt in
time.

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"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
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right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
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        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
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Jesus never hated anyone.

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
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If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
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.

           

Susan - 31 Mar 2006 04:17 GMT
> Until you experience loss of feeling in your toes and feet and then
> suffer an injury due to impact with an object that you did not feel,
> don't preach that line of reasoning.  It will come back to haunt in
> time.

But why are those of us who are fully sensate at any greater risk?
And aren't diabetics at increased risk for fungal infections, which love
closed shoes?

Susan
Dennis R - 31 Mar 2006 05:22 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Susan

How often do you have your feet tested for sensation? Loss of sensation
can be progressive and therefore not noticed, and not necessarily
correlate to BG's, which happened between sessions (6 months) with my
endo. There was a definite change that I had not noticed, and yet my A1c
 had actually dropped from 6.7 to 6.5. My endo used the classic tuning
fork test.

As well, even if one has adequate sensation, healing may still be slower
because of diabetes. You have years of experience and adequate control
of your BG's Susan. Most newbies reading here have neither, and may get
the wrong idea unless you adequately qualify your statements. I am sure
you at least do not go around barefoot.

Besides, not all of us are blessed with good looking feet and toes, and
I have to wear compression stockings for edema, so I only wear sandals
in my fenced in back yard where no one can see me. ;-)

Dennis (Type 2)
Chris Malcolm - 31 Mar 2006 10:08 GMT
>> Ma?k wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>>
>> Susan

> How often do you have your feet tested for sensation?

Nearly every day. When I sit down to watch a TV programme I carefully
check over my feet, joint mobility, sensation, cracks, etc.. With a
couple of relapses due to being careless with my BGs, since diagnosis
and reducing my BGs the neuropathy in my feet has slowly receded. It's
now entirely absent in my left foot, and is still slowly reducing in
my right foot. Even in its worst place, I still immediately felt it
when I stepped on a bit of broken glass about the size of a large
grain of sand. And every time I walk barefoot, which is often in the
house, I check the feeling in my right foot against the left.

> Loss of sensation
> can be progressive and therefore not noticed,

I notice changes from day to day. In fact changes from day to day are
common, for reasons I still don't understand. The same was true of my
hands, when I had mild neuropathy in both hands. Some days it was
there, some days it was absent. Gradually the days it was there
lessened.

> As well, even if one has adequate sensation, healing may still be slower
> because of diabetes.

It may be, but mine isn't. I still heal distinctly faster than my
non-diabetic wife, and probably still faster than most people my age.

> You have years of experience and adequate control
> of your BG's Susan. Most newbies reading here have neither, and may get
> the wrong idea unless you adequately qualify your statements. I am sure
> you at least do not go around barefoot.

I spend almost all my indoor time either barefoot or just in socks,
depending on the temperature. In summer I'll often go barefoot in the
garden.

Your advice sounds to me like a recommendation that I use a walking
stick every day in case my arthritis gets worse enough without my
noticing it that I find I really need the stick.

> Besides, not all of us are blessed with good looking feet and toes, and
> I have to wear compression stockings for edema, so I only wear sandals
> in my fenced in back yard where no one can see me. ;-)

I hope you're not going to go on to recommend that I should wear
compression stockings too just in case edema creeps up on me when I'm
not looking :-)

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IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
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Susan - 31 Mar 2006 14:58 GMT
> How often do you have your feet tested for sensation? Loss of sensation
> can be progressive and therefore not noticed, and not necessarily
> correlate to BG's, which happened between sessions (6 months) with my
> endo. There was a definite change that I had not noticed, and yet my A1c
>  had actually dropped from 6.7 to 6.5. My endo used the classic tuning
> fork test.

I don't.  But I used to have severe PNs, feet and hands.  Diet and time
released alpha lipoic acid reversed them.  Even the stubborn numbish
spot near my right little toe is sensate now.

> As well, even if one has adequate sensation, healing may still be slower
> because of diabetes. You have years of experience and adequate control
> of your BG's Susan. Most newbies reading here have neither, and may get
> the wrong idea unless you adequately qualify your statements. I am sure
> you at least do not go around barefoot.

I do go around barefoot, at home or at the beach.  I used to do it a lot
more, but the fact is I have almost no fat padding in my feet, they're
bony, and hard surfaces feel uncomfortable.  I now find myself wearing
slippers or flip flops at times when I would prefer bare feet, but I
still do it on many occasions.  I

> Besides, not all of us are blessed with good looking feet and toes, and
> I have to wear compression stockings for edema, so I only wear sandals
> in my fenced in back yard where no one can see me. ;-)

Well, that's considerate as heck of you, if nothing else.  ;-)

Susan
Julie Bove - 31 Mar 2006 07:30 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> And aren't diabetics at increased risk for fungal infections, which love
> closed shoes?

Diabetics are at greater risk of fungal and in fact any infections.  One
problem with neuropathy is that it comes on slowly.  People could have it
and not know it.  My first Endo. showed me a foot video and it said
diabetics should never go barefoot or wear sandals.  Never!  In the house we
are to wear slippers if our shoes are off.  The only sandals I own are some
Birkenstock Fisherman sandals.  They have a sole that is raised up around
the edge and pretty well cover my feet.  I do have assorted Birkenstock
clogs.  Yes, I know these are probably a no-no as well.  I guess I like to
live dangerously.

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Alice Faber - 31 Mar 2006 18:19 GMT
> > x-no-archive: yes
> >
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> clogs.  Yes, I know these are probably a no-no as well.  I guess I like to
> live dangerously.

The thing is that everyone sets their own limits and makes their own
compromises. I never go barefoot (well, almost never--sometimes I forego
slippers if I get up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night).
And I wear sandals, but never thongs (they almost always irritate my
toes). I have other problems due to arthritis, and sometimes slip-on
clog-like shoes are the only ones I can even put on, due either to toe
pain, ankle swelling, or fingers being too stiff to help out. I'd
stopped wearing high heels long before I was diagnosed with diabetes. I
wear mostly hand-knit socks, that fit me precisely (since I make them to
fit *my* feet--none of this one-size fits all), because I'm sensitive to
fabric bunching up under my toes. Where I don't compromise is in extreme
vigilance to any sore on my feet (this, I think, is related to the
arthritis).

Remember also that the advice about pro-actively not going barefoot or
wearing sandals (as opposed to limiting it to folks who already have
neuropathy) goes back to the era when an HbA1c of 7 was considered good
control.

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Priscilla Ballou - 31 Mar 2006 19:47 GMT
> Remember also that the advice about pro-actively not going barefoot or
> wearing sandals (as opposed to limiting it to folks who already have
> neuropathy) goes back to the era when an HbA1c of 7 was considered good
> control.

Exactly.  My endo always does the foot exam stuff on me, although I've
never shown any signs of numbness or pain.  

Since my diabetes was caught and treated really early, I don't see why I
should have to follow rules tailored to diabetics with complications I
don't have.  Wearing sandals or going barefoot are not going to bring on
complications.

Priscilla
Alan S - 31 Mar 2006 21:51 GMT
<snip>
>Remember also that the advice about pro-actively not going barefoot or
>wearing sandals (as opposed to limiting it to folks who already have
>neuropathy) goes back to the era when an HbA1c of 7 was considered good
>control.

Precisely. I put careful care and inspection of my feet,
including regular visits to the podiatrist, allied to
maintaining good control, above blanket advice on barefoot
or otherwise.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 2x500mg
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Chris Malcolm - 01 Apr 2006 10:46 GMT
>> Ma?k wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> And aren't diabetics at increased risk for fungal infections, which love
>> closed shoes?

> Diabetics are at greater risk of fungal and in fact any infections.  One
> problem with neuropathy is that it comes on slowly.  People could have it
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> clogs.  Yes, I know these are probably a no-no as well.  I guess I like to
> live dangerously.

You may not be living dangerously. I started my barefoot and sandals
regime decades ago when I suffered from stinky feet and persistent
infections. All sorts of medications helped temporarily but never
permanently. I decided to try the idea that the problem was wearing
closed shoes which kept my feet slightly damp. Bingo! My feet started
to improve. Now I can actually wear closed shoes in the winter without
changing socks for days without getting smelly feet, and the various
itches and fungal infections have all long gone. What is more, my feet
are now very much tougher, much more resistant to injury and
infection.

A few years back I had an operation to remove a bony growth in my
foot. The doc insisted that I must take a precautionary course of
antibiotics to stop developing an infection, because "foot injuries
*always* become infected due to the amount of bacteria on the feet".
I offered to bet him ten pounds that mine wouldn't. He nearly threw me
out of his office. Then he recovered his temper and asked me to sign a
waiver form that I was refusing medical advice and it would be my
fault when my foot became infected. I think he expected that to scare
me into submission because when I simply took out my pen to sign it he
snatched it away.

There was never ever the slightest sign of infection in the scar or
the stitching, never even the slightest reddening. I was told I was a)
a freak and b) incredibly lucky. I disagreed. I concluded that wearing
closed shoes for several hours a day is in fact a risk factor for bad
foot health, possibly for many people, very likely indeed for me.

I'm a scientist. When evidence disagrees with authority I know which
to believe :-)

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IPAB,  Informatics,  JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
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Ma¢k - 31 Mar 2006 08:30 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>But why are those of us who are fully sensate at any greater risk?

because you won't know that you are at risk until you are injured and
it progresses to a serious infection.

>And aren't diabetics at increased risk for fungal infections, which love
>closed shoes?

Let's see, personal hygiene is first and foremost in the line of
prevention here.

Cleaning your shoes also helps, most people simply don't bother.

not going barefoot in public pools, gym showers, locker rooms etc
prevents the spread as well.

>Susan

Feel free to do as you've always done.  A little prevention can save
you a lot of grief.  Believing in the myth of impregnability, well,
many people no matter how old they get refuse to learn from other
people's mistakes and simply must make them themselves.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

Jesus never hated anyone.

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

           

Alan S - 31 Mar 2006 13:57 GMT
>not going barefoot in public pools, gym showers, locker rooms etc
>prevents the spread as well.

As someone who went barefoot to Primary School and has soles
like leather I've stayed out of this. I do understand the
need to be careful, having lifted a big toe-nail before dx
that took two years to heal. However, I still go barefoot
around my home and when I wander over to the creek.

But Mack, seriously, you wear shoes when you swim in a
public pool?

I wear thongs (Aussie style, on feet, not stripper style:-)
when using public showers, but I think I'd find them a bit
cumbersome while doing a few laps of freestyle.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 2x500mg
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Julie Bove - 31 Mar 2006 17:05 GMT
> >not going barefoot in public pools, gym showers, locker rooms etc
> >prevents the spread as well.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> when using public showers, but I think I'd find them a bit
> cumbersome while doing a few laps of freestyle.

Diabetics should wear swim shoes while in a pool.  Seriuosly!  A pool is a
place where you can really hurt your foot.  I remember doing this as a
child.  Came off the diving board in the deep end and slightly the wrong
angle and instead of being a dive it was more like a cannonball.  I shot
straight to the bottom, scraping the skin off of the knuckles of one hand
and the tips of the toes on one foot.

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Alan S - 31 Mar 2006 22:07 GMT
>> >not going barefoot in public pools, gym showers, locker rooms etc
>> >prevents the spread as well.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>straight to the bottom, scraping the skin off of the knuckles of one hand
>and the tips of the toes on one foot.

Julie, really, come on.

I don't doubt that happened to you. Your incident would
sound more like a need for diving technique training that
shoes.

When I was 12 or 13 I stepped off a home-made raft in the
Clarence River and slit my heel open on a broken bottle
under ten inches of silt. I still have the scar. That didn't
cause my parents to make me wear shoes when rafting or
swimming in a very deep mile-wide river. They had already
made sure I was taught to swim well, and it just caused me
to learn to look where I put my feet.  That river
occasionally had bronze whalers cruise up it (a rather nasty
type of shark) but not often enough to stop me swimming in
it.

I could use logic like yours to stay in my room and never
leave. Some people do.

I choose to weigh the risks and determine which ones are
acceptable to living an enjoyable life. These days I wear
goggles for my eyes and plugs for my ears when I swim - but
shoes? Spare me.

Eating Pavlova is a risk I choose not to take. Going
barefoot in my own home - and public swimming pools - is one
I will take. Of much greater risk to me in a public pool is
the risk of infection; one I take with a bit more
circumspection.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 2x500mg
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Julie Bove - 01 Apr 2006 09:25 GMT
> Julie, really, come on.
>
> I don't doubt that happened to you. Your incident would
> sound more like a need for diving technique training that
> shoes.

It happened during swim class.  I was a kid.  I don't even think they made
swim shoes in those days.

> When I was 12 or 13 I stepped off a home-made raft in the
> Clarence River and slit my heel open on a broken bottle
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> type of shark) but not often enough to stop me swimming in
> it.

You didn't have diabetes then though, did you?

> I could use logic like yours to stay in my room and never
> leave. Some people do.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> the risk of infection; one I take with a bit more
> circumspection.

Well, go ahead and take that risk then.  But don't expect any sympathy from
me if something happens to your feet!

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Ma¢k - 01 Apr 2006 00:30 GMT
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 23:57:48 +1100, Alan S
<loralweightandcarbs@optusnet.com.au> Huffed and Puffed the following
into the madness of usenet:

>>not going barefoot in public pools, gym showers, locker rooms etc
>>prevents the spread as well.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
>d&e, metformin 2x500mg

thanks to the miracle of modern plastics they make these nice things
called swimming slippers/shoes.  They make them in all sizes from
toddler to adult.

They may be called different things in different areas but all you
need to do is use your imagination and ask around.  You'll find what I
am talking about.  You're really that dense to think that I am saying
to wear laced up shoes in the pool?

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half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
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Alan S - 01 Apr 2006 04:32 GMT
>thanks to the miracle of modern plastics they make these nice things
>called swimming slippers/shoes.  They make them in all sizes from
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>am talking about.  You're really that dense to think that I am saying
>to wear laced up shoes in the pool?

See my reply to Julie. And Mack, we may call each other
names at times - but I would hope neither of us considers
the other dense. Other labels maybe in both directions -
misguided, annoying, PITA, aggravating - but not dense.

The only swimming shoes I am ever likely to wear are
flippers.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 2x500mg
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anothascreename@aol.com - 02 Apr 2006 13:38 GMT
> >thanks to the miracle of modern plastics they make these nice things
> >called swimming slippers/shoes.  They make them in all sizes from
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> the other dense. Other labels maybe in both directions -
> misguided, annoying, PITA, aggravating - but not dense.

How about THICK?

BoB

> The only swimming shoes I am ever likely to wear are
> flippers.
>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 2x500mg
bantista - 02 Apr 2006 20:20 GMT
Alan S wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:30:41 -0500, Ma¢k
> <stopthespam@shootspammers.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> the other dense. Other labels maybe in both directions -
> misguided, annoying, PITA, aggravating - but not dense.

How about THICK?

BoB

How about plonk?

> The only swimming shoes I am ever likely to wear are
> flippers.
>
> Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
> d&e, metformin 2x500mg
Julie Bove - 01 Apr 2006 09:27 GMT
> thanks to the miracle of modern plastics they make these nice things
> called swimming slippers/shoes.  They make them in all sizes from
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> am talking about.  You're really that dense to think that I am saying
> to wear laced up shoes in the pool?

Mack I feel like you and I are the only ones who are taking this issue
seriously.  If there is anyone else who agrees with you, then I apologize
for leaving your out.  I'm a bit appalled at the lax attitude of many of the
people here.

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Nicky - 01 Apr 2006 09:54 GMT
> Mack I feel like you and I are the only ones who are taking this issue
> seriously.  If there is anyone else who agrees with you, then I apologize
> for leaving your out.  I'm a bit appalled at the lax attitude of many of
> the
> people here.

Julie, I don't think you understand how well protected the feet of people
who habitually go barefoot all the time can be. I owned my first pair of
everyday shoes when I was 11 - I only needed dress-up ones before that. I
still have a layer of thick skin about 1/4 of an inch thick on my sole; it
can easily turn a thorn without letting it get anywhere near my flesh. And I
have soft "English" feet these days - Alan, Jan and other people who are
lucky enough to live in a climate that doesn't require shoes will have much
tougher feet. I don't think you need to worry about them!

Nicky.

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Susan - 01 Apr 2006 14:36 GMT
> Mack I feel like you and I are the only ones who are taking this issue
> seriously.  If there is anyone else who agrees with you, then I apologize
> for leaving your out.  I'm a bit appalled at the lax attitude of many of the
> people here.

Julie, not agreeing with you guys isn't the same as having a lax
attitude.  If I said your not eating the way I do was an appalling
demonstration of a lax attitude, it would be just as offensive, no?

I have a different, carefully thought out attitude.  I examine my feet,
pay attention to their condition, I just choose not to enclose them the
way you guys do.

Be appalled if you must.

Susan
Ma¢k - 04 Apr 2006 00:50 GMT
>> thanks to the miracle of modern plastics they make these nice things
>> called swimming slippers/shoes.  They make them in all sizes from
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>for leaving your out.  I'm a bit appalled at the lax attitude of many of the
>people here.

what risks one choose to take for one's self is their own business,
and that of those they claim to love, as those are the ones who will
taking care of them when injured or crippled.

What galls me is this general attitude of fostering this bad, reckless
behavior as if it is good general diabetic advice.  It's not.

I never had problems with my feet, always healed perfectly.  Then one
time I developed a small blister on each heel and they very quickly
became infected, became ulcers and required a great deal of work and
expense to get back to where they are now.  I was lucky in that I got
a specialist who actually teaches other podiatrists and specializes in
diabetic foot care and complications.

It only takes one time for an infection to set in and get out of
control.  And NO-ONE knows when that will happen.  No matter how well
controlled their BGs are or how well they heal today and every day
before today.

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Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

Jesus never hated anyone.

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

           

Susan - 04 Apr 2006 01:30 GMT
> what risks one choose to take for one's self is their own business,
> and that of those they claim to love, as those are the ones who will
> taking care of them when injured or crippled.

It's not as if that's the inevitable outcome, though I understand and
accept that you believe it is.

> What galls me is this general attitude of fostering this bad, reckless
> behavior as if it is good general diabetic advice.  It's not.

Here's the thing, Mack.  I think that enclosing feet in a moist, dark
environment for many hours per day is unhealthy and equally risky.  I'm
not going to make predictions of doom for you, though.

> I never had problems with my feet, always healed perfectly.  Then one
> time I developed a small blister on each heel and they very quickly
> became infected, became ulcers and required a great deal of work and
> expense to get back to where they are now.  I was lucky in that I got
> a specialist who actually teaches other podiatrists and specializes in
> diabetic foot care and complications.

I pay lots of careful attention to my feet; I just don't encase them in
dark moist conditions all day.

> It only takes one time for an infection to set in and get out of
> control.  And NO-ONE knows when that will happen.  No matter how well
> controlled their BGs are or how well they heal today and every day
> before today.

Fungus infects diabetic feet most frequently, I've read.  Know what
conditions promote fungus?

Susan
Hi_Therre - 04 Apr 2006 13:57 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>Fungus infects diabetic feet most frequently, I've read.  Know what
>conditions promote fungus?

Toenail Fungus - hey I know about that lil bugger.  Been fighting the
damn thing for two years this month.  Still have it in the left foot
big toe.  I imagine come December, it may still be there.  Tenacious
little bastard.
Chakolate - 04 Apr 2006 21:44 GMT
> Toenail Fungus - hey I know about that lil bugger.  Been fighting the
> damn thing for two years this month.  Still have it in the left foot
> big toe.  I imagine come December, it may still be there.  Tenacious
> little bastard.

May I ask what you've tried?  

Chak

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TigerLily - 05 Apr 2006 01:48 GMT
it took me NINE months of Lamisil pills to beat
the toe nail fungus in my big toe

i haven't had a speck of fungus in the subsequent
3 years since i underwent that treatment

kate
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> > Toenail Fungus - hey I know about that lil bugger.  Been fighting the
> > damn thing for two years this month.  Still have it in the left foot
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Chak
Hi_Therre - 05 Apr 2006 12:37 GMT
>it took me NINE months of Lamisil pills to beat
>the toe nail fungus in my big toe
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>kate

I've been using lamisil since last September, about seven months ago.
The fungus is still visible on the outer half of the nail.  So I
suspect at years end, it may still exist.  Nasty bugger.
Priscilla H. Ballou - 05 Apr 2006 17:34 GMT
> it took me NINE months of Lamisil pills to beat
> the toe nail fungus in my big toe
>
> i haven't had a speck of fungus in the subsequent
> 3 years since i underwent that treatment

I was pretty lucky.  Three months of Lamisil did the trick, and buying
shoes that are big enough with roomy toe boxes has helped prevent a
recurrence.  I think it's been 5 years or so now.  

Priscilla
Hi_Therre - 05 Apr 2006 12:37 GMT
>> Toenail Fungus - hey I know about that lil bugger.  Been fighting the
>> damn thing for two years this month.  Still have it in the left foot
>> big toe.  I imagine come December, it may still be there.  Tenacious
>> little bastard.
>
>May I ask what you've tried?  

First we tried Vicks for about a year.  Then tried Penlac ($125 for a
tiny lil bottle) which had spotty results.  Now I use Lamisil tablets.
Lamisil is supposedly the best on the market, but, I'm beginning to
wonder about that also.  Fungus is such a tenacious bastard, I wonder
if anything will kill it off permanently.  The damn thing just hangs
in there and will not go away.  GGGrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Ma¢k - 04 Apr 2006 16:45 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
>Susan

you seem to have a problem keeping your shoes clean and dry.  

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o ô)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
             ....Bilbo Baggins

Jesus never hated anyone.

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
.

           

Susan - 04 Apr 2006 17:01 GMT
> you seem to have a problem keeping your shoes clean and dry.  

That was a non-responsive reply.  My shoes are clean and dry, for one
thing, because I rotate among many pairs, and most of them are open,
except in the winter, when I take them off as soon as I'm indoors.

Any dark enclosed space that gets sweaty will be extremely hospitable to
fungus.  This may be why diabetics have so many fungal infections on
their feet; advice to keep them in dark, moist shoes at all times.

Susan
Ma¢k - 07 Apr 2006 03:20 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Susan

your being intentionally dishonest again.  no-one