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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2006HDL
Hi all, I need help on my hdl. Getting it to go higher. It's in the 30's now. My walks don't seem to help. I can't drink wine. Please help if you have any ideas. SusanLa Mo Susan: let us know what your LDL is and also what meds you are taking. Larry > Hi all, I need help on my hdl. Getting it to go higher. It's in the 30's > now. My walks don't seem to help. I can't drink wine. Please help if you > have any ideas. > > SusanLa Mo Susan, are you on any cholesterol medication, folic acid and vitamins b6 and b 12 Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. My doctor had me take Niaspan to increase my HDL and it appears that it worked. My HDL increased from 45 to 60 and then to 75. Unfortunately, Niaspan increases insulin resistance a bit, something I tolerated OK. Then I started getting rashes and quit. The reason I use the word "appears" is that these lab results followed my major weight loss and exercise program. Too many variables including cinnamon were in the mix. I've read that soy increases HDL without a corresponding increase in LDL. Who knows if this is true. It will be interesting to see what happens with my next lab without the Niaspan but with more soy consumption. Best wishes for your HDL. > Hi all, I need help on my hdl. Getting it to go higher. It's in the 30's > now. My walks don't seem to help. I can't drink wine. Please help if you > have any ideas. > > SusanLa Mo I'm sorry my name is confused with the other Susan. I do sign my messages different. I don't know what name I should use now.But I will change it if you all like. type 2 a1c 5.2 glucose 87 cholesterol 116 trigs 144 hdl 33 ldl 54 ldl/hdl ratio 1.64 chol/hdl ratio 3.5 pills are crestor 10mg rantidone 300mg metformin hcl 500mg 3x a day lisinopril 5mg acphes 20mg 2x a day glmepride 2mg gabapentin 600mg alprazolam 1 mg That is all I take. Hope this helps. Like I said I didn't mean to cause the confusing of the names. Just need some advice about my hdl. SusanLa Mo > My doctor had me take Niaspan to increase my HDL and it appears that it > worked. My HDL increased from 45 to 60 and then to 75. Unfortunately, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >> SusanLa Mo > I'm sorry my name is confused with the other Susan. I do sign my messages > different. I don't know what name I should use now.But I will change it if > you all like. I think you've made a huge effort to distinguish your sig from mine already. Don't let an occasional error worry you. Susan >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Susan You are right, Susan. And, if anyone ever questions which of you is which, all they have to do is look at the headers and the referring email addy.... Will, T2 > I'm sorry my name is confused with the other Susan. I do sign my > messages different. I don't know what name I should use now.But I > will change it if you all like. Well you don't have to change anything if you don't want :) I personally look more at the user ID not the sig file. Perhaps if you were thinking of changing - SusanLa might work :P That is how I sign it now. SusanLa MO >> I'm sorry my name is confused with the other Susan. I do > sign my [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Perhaps if you were thinking of changing - SusanLa might > work :P I meant as the person who sends it, not at the end of your post as a signature. When you look at the list of posts you see your ID as just Susan like mine says Ozgirl etc. I think what is happening is that people are just seeing the Susan, not paying attention to the signature. > That is how I sign it now. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Perhaps if you were thinking of changing - SusanLa might > > work :P This post not CC'd by email On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:02:29 GMT, "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote: >I meant as the person who sends it, not at the end of your >post as a signature. When you look at the list of posts you >see your ID as just Susan like mine says Ozgirl etc. I think >what is happening is that people are just seeing the Susan, >not paying attention to the signature. G'day G'day Girl, I certainly read the name on the header. Sometimes the name in the signature is several pages down. Knowing there are two with Susan in the header I scan down. Best wishes,  SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >type 2 >a1c 5.2 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >gabapentin 600mg >alprazolam 1 mg Hi Susan Trying to answer your question later in the thread. Those numbers look excellent, particularly A1c and total cholesterol - except for the HDL, which is a bit low. The trigs/HDL ratio is 4.36, which indicates that your LDL is unlikely to be mainly the "fluffy" particles but more likely to be the more dangerous small particles. See http://tinyurl.com/b9e8t http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/23/11/1679?maxtoshow=&HITS =&hits=&RESULTFORMAT=1&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&fulltext=trigl ycerides+to+HDL&andorexactfulltext=phrase&searchid=1116113854912_19693&stored_se arch=&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=1 However, the absolute value of your LDL is also quite low, which is good. So, and this is only my own logic, it may not be a significant problem for that reason. Ask your doctor for an opinion there. Your trigs are reasonable so, as you said in your opening post, you need to get the HDL higher. The consistent answers on that from others are to exercise more. In my own case, adding a modicum of red wine to my diet also seemed to help. Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureI have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Thank you, Allen. (The trigs/HDL ratio is 4.36, which indicates that your LDL is unlikely to be mainly the "fluffy" particles but more likely to be the more dangerous small particles} What does that mean? If it is the dangerous small particles what kind of trouble am I in? SusanLa MO >>type 2 >>a1c 5.2 [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. > d&e, metformin 2x500mg >Thank you, Allen. (The trigs/HDL ratio is 4.36, which indicates that your >LDL [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >SusanLa MO Hi Susan Read that link: http://tinyurl.com/b9e8t or http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/23/11/1679?maxtoshow=&HITS =&hits=&RESULTFORMAT=1&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&fulltext=trigl ycerides+to+HDL&andorexactfulltext=phrase&searchid=1116113854912_19693&stored_se arch=&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=1 Their comment: CONCLUSIONS: The TG-to-HDL cholesterol ratio may be related to the processes involved in LDL size pathophysiology and relevant with regard to the risk of clinical vascular disease. It may be suitable for the selection of patients needing an earlier and aggressive treatment of lipid abnormalities. You aren't in trouble - it's an indicator that you may need to discuss with your doctor to find ways to improve your HDL. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. :: Hi all, I need help on my hdl. Getting it to go higher. It's in the :: 30's now. My walks don't seem to help. I can't drink wine. Please :: help if you have any ideas. Weight lifting, walnuts, low-carb nutrition. > :: Hi all, I need help on my hdl. Getting it to go higher. It's in the > :: 30's now. My walks don't seem to help. I can't drink wine. Please > :: help if you have any ideas. > > Weight lifting, walnuts, low-carb nutrition. In my case, my HDL had been 34 for at least a decade. It was 68 within two weeks of cutting starch and sugar, and has stayed high. I hit 70 after a low of 58 after my first few months on pantethine. Susan :: x-no-archive: yes :: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] :: :: Susan Mine used to hover in the 40s before LC and etc. >>In my case, my HDL had been 34 for at least a decade. It was 68 within >> two weeks of cutting starch and sugar, and has stayed high. I hit 70 >> after a low of 58 after my first few months on pantethine. What is your Lipid Profile? LDL/Trigs/ Total Cholesterol? Is 58 your LDL or total Cholesterol? Or is it HDL? Any statin drugs? My personal experience is HDL using exercise is the slowest route to improving the HDL but is also the surest as long as you are ready to sweat it out. I started with 27 in July 05. I am at 35. But I am positive I am on mend. If I want to go non-med route I have to accept the slow assent at leats that is what I am hoping. OTH My LDL/Trig ratio is 1.94 so it seems I do have the fluffy kind of LDLs. HDL I view as garbage trucks. If you don't have that much garbage you may not need too many garbage trucks! Just my opinion. Anil > What is your Lipid Profile? LDL/Trigs/ Total Cholesterol? > Is 58 your LDL or total Cholesterol? Or is it HDL? HDL, but now, with pantethine, it's 70. LDL is 126, I think, a low % of it is VLDL. TGLs are about 100 these days. > Any statin drugs? No, I wouldn't take a statin.. But pantethine also inhibits HMG-CoA and has anti inflammatory properties without any statin like adverse reactions ever reported in studies done overseas. Old Al says it also seems to have given him a nice bump up in his HDL, as it did for me. > My personal experience is HDL using exercise is the slowest route to > improving the HDL but is also the surest as long as you are ready to > sweat it out. I started with 27 in July 05. I am at 35. But I am > positive I am on mend. If I want to go non-med route I have to accept > the slow assent at leats that is what I am hoping. The chief of endocrinology at an academic hospital told me that only very high intensity exercise will budge HDL. I can't do that, though I can do weights on machines. > OTH > My LDL/Trig ratio is 1.94 so it seems I do have the fluffy kind of > LDLs. HDL I view as garbage trucks. If you don't have that much garbage > you may not need too many garbage trucks! Just my opinion. Do you mean your TGL/HDL ratio? If I'm not mistaken, that's the one that points to larger, fluffier, non oxidizing LDL. Susan >> Do you mean your TGL/HDL ratio? If I'm not mistaken, that's the one >> that points to larger, fluffier, non oxidizing LDL. Oh I did mean to say that my TGL/HDL is 1.94. >> HDL, but now, with pantethine, it's 70. LDL is 126, I think, a low % of >> it is VLDL. TGLs are about 100 these days. If your HDL is now 70 why are you worried? But I you did start this entry with the following: >> Hi all, I need help on my hdl. Getting it to go higher. It's in the 30's >> now. My walks don't seem to help. I can't drink wine. Please help if you >> have any ideas. So do you or do you not need help with your HDL? Did miss a cue? Anil >>>Do you mean your TGL/HDL ratio? If I'm not mistaken, that's the one >>>that points to larger, fluffier, non oxidizing LDL. > > Oh I did mean to say that my TGL/HDL is 1.94. Okay. >>>HDL, but now, with pantethine, it's 70. LDL is 126, I think, a low % of >>>it is VLDL. TGLs are about 100 these days. > > If your HDL is now 70 why are you worried? I'm not. When did I say I was worried? But I you did start this > entry with the following: > >>>Hi all, I need help on my hdl. Getting it to go higher. It's in the 30's >>>now. My walks don't seem to help. I can't drink wine. Please help if you >>>have any ideas. I didn't say that, I *responded* to the person who said that. > So do you or do you not need help with your HDL? Did miss a cue? > > Anil Maybe you should re-read the thread? Susan :: x-no-archive: yes :: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] :: :: Susan I've run into this two-Susan thing before, but now I know your style & tone. :) > I've run into this two-Susan thing before, but now I know your style & tone. > :) I have style? I have tone? Susan <takin' it where she finds it> ;-D > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Susan <takin' it where she finds it> ;-D Yeah, you're generally of the "just the facts ma'am" school. :-) Priscilla > Yeah, you're generally of the "just the facts ma'am" school. :-) Yep, kinda "rat-a-tat, here's what I found, yadayadayada..." :-) Susan > x-no-archive: yes > > > Yeah, you're generally of the "just the facts ma'am" school. :-) > > Yep, kinda "rat-a-tat, here's what I found, yadayadayada..." :-) Yeah, you're just sayin' is all. Priscilla > Yeah, you're just sayin' is all. LOL... Oh, Aunt Scilly, you've so got my number. Susan, Girl Reporter > x-no-archive: yes > > Yeah, you're just sayin' is all. > > LOL... Oh, Aunt Scilly, you've so got my number. > > Susan, Girl Reporter Heh heh! My corned beef and cabbage is almost ready. Boy, does it smell good! Not being of Irish descent, I'm having it a week late. :-) Priscilla > Heh heh! My corned beef and cabbage is almost ready. Boy, does it > smell good! Not being of Irish descent, I'm having it a week late. :-) First year we've skipped it. Early in our marriage, I bought an "Irish Country Cooking" book, thinking my Irish husband would be pleased and happy about it. He just said, "why'd you do that - have you ever *had* Irish food??" :-D I read the book, and everything in it was gonna be tan or beige or boiled to death. Had a great recipe for corned beef brisket and cabbage, though. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Had a great recipe for corned beef brisket and cabbage, though. I'm nuts for cabbage just about any way it can be prepared -- except for sauerkraut -- and I grew up on New England Boiled Dinner, so cb&c is a natural for me. No taters, of course, these days. *sigh* Priscilla of the now-full tummy Priscilla Ballou said: > No taters, of course, these days. *sigh* > > Priscilla of the now-full tummy Whatever happened to that low-carb potato I heard about a few years ago that someone was supposed to be developing? I miss potatoes more than I miss anythig else... Mary > Priscilla Ballou said: > > No taters, of course, these days. *sigh* [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > someone was supposed to be developing? I miss potatoes more than I miss > anythig else... I tried some last year. IIRC, they were mediocre potatoes and spiked me. I'm looking forward to the new potatoes of summer -- they don't bother my BG much if I use restraint when eating them.... and I don't mean if someone ties me to my chair so I can't get at them! LOL Priscilla :: Priscilla Ballou said: ::: No taters, of course, these days. *sigh* [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] :: ago that someone was supposed to be developing? I miss potatoes more :: than I miss anythig else... They weren't low carb! :) >x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Susan I like cabbage just about any way it can possibly be done... Will, T2 LOL, LOL. -- Cheri Priscilla Ballou wrote in message ..Speaking of Susan... . >Yeah, you're generally of the "just the facts ma'am" school. :-) > >Priscilla > But I you did start this >> entry with the following: Nope. . .we suddenly have two entirely different Susans. Original Susan: "nevermind@nomail.com New Susan: blackwolf@mokan. . .etc. . .etc Yo "New Susan". You might consider a new nickname. Regards Old Al >> But I you did start this >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Original Susan: "nevermind@nomail.com Original Susan. Sounds so, so... *biblical* > New Susan: blackwolf@mokan. . .etc. . .etc > > Yo "New Susan". You might consider a new nickname. I think that's why she started signing SusanLA. Maybe she should start signing "Not the other Susan?" ;-) Original Susan :-) "If your HDL is now 70 why are you worried? But I you did start this entry with the following: >> Hi all, I need help on my hdl. Getting it to go higher. It's in the 30's >> now. My walks don't seem to help. I can't drink wine. Please help if you >> have any ideas. " I wondered the same thing. Two different Susans... Morris > So do you or do you not need help with your HDL? Did miss a cue? Yes, there is more than one Susan. It was SusanLa that posted first. Frank >> So do you or do you not need help with your HDL? Did miss a cue? > > Yes, there is more than one Susan. It was SusanLa that posted first. > > Frank Oops, I'd forgotten the name of the OP; I always mentally register her as LA so I won't get confused and think I'm her. :-) Susan Moral of the story. The two Susans should talk to each other. One has a problem that the other has sorted out! Others need not participate... Wish things would sort out so clearly in all other threads... Good day every one! Anil > Moral of the story. The two Susans should talk to each other. One has a > problem that the other has sorted out! Others need not participate... I believe Susan has posted her information about pantethine since SusanLa started here. Priscilla : If your HDL is now 70 why are you worried? But I you did start this : entry with the following: Different Susan Wendy Anil: It is a big mistake to conclude that you have "fluffy kind" of LDL based on the ratio. You could have the wrong kind of LDL and still have a favorable ratio. Larry > >>In my case, my HDL had been 34 for at least a decade. It was 68 within > >> two weeks of cutting starch and sugar, and has stayed high. I hit 70 [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Anil >Anil: It is a big mistake to conclude that you have "fluffy kind" of >LDL based on the ratio. >You could have the wrong kind of LDL and still have a favorable ratio. I don't assume either - but I've read the references that support Anil's conclusions; would you mind posting your contrary references please. Not being snide - I really would like to read them. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. >>Anil: It is a big mistake to conclude that you have "fluffy kind" of >>LDL based on the ratio. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. > d&e, metformin 2x500mg You can get a direct test: see <http://www.atherotech.com/> You can see what a report looks like at: <http://www.atherotech.com/files/5615-VAPDefin_LIN_FINALrev.pdf> I haven't done it because my doctor wasn't worried when my LDL was a little high--I was going to insist on it if she suggested medication. Pam t2 since Nove. 2004, diet and exercise Hi Alan, > Subject: Re: HDL Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:34:41 +1100 >I don't assume either - but I've read the references that > support Anil's conclusions; would you mind posting your > contrary references please. Not being snide - I really would > like to read them. While Larry responds to your request: I know you have done a fair amount of research in this area. Based on the pointers you had indicated earlier I had found the following link which I kept handy to jog my own memory. Larry feel free to add yours. I am interested in it too for the obvious reasons! http://tinyurl.com/qtluq Anil Anil: Thanks for the reference. Based on the Trig/HDL ratio study I think we all will agree that when triglycerides levels are "sky high", small dense LDL particles are also most likely present in high enough levels to be destructive. Hence drug therapy would be advised. Larry > Anil: Thanks for the reference. Based on the Trig/HDL ratio study I > think we all will agree that when triglycerides levels are "sky high", > small dense LDL particles are also most likely present in high enough > levels to be destructive. Hence drug therapy would be advised. No, hence carbohydrate reduction would be advised. Sky high TGL is a marker for carb consumption and insulin resistance. Lifestyle modifications should be attempted first; they're safer and cheaper and will, most often, work. Susan This post not CC'd by email >Anil: Thanks for the reference. Based on the Trig/HDL ratio study I >think we all will agree that when triglycerides levels are "sky high", >small dense LDL particles are also most likely present in high enough >levels to be destructive. Hence drug therapy would be advised. > >Larry G'day G'day Larry, You did raise another important point. Anil is not on cholesterol lowering drugs. While the situations that Dr Barry Sears talks about relating high TG:HDL ratios to the presence of sd-LDL some of the converse situations aren't so clear WHERE DRUGS ARE INVOLVED. Some statins raise HDL. This would lower the TG:HDL ratio. Does it also lead to a reduced percentage of sd-LDL? Statins tend to remove the non-sd-LDL fractions first. We use the TG:HDL ratio as a quick and dirty test for the oxidation of LDL that turns in small dense and nasty. What this means is we do it recognising that it is not perfect. I hope no-one out there thinks this is an indictment of statins. They work better than the cholesterol hypothesis predicts DESPITE what I have just said about TG:HDL ratios and sd-LDL. To me it is similar to the homocysteine, folic acid, B6, B12 situation. We know people with high homocysteine have elevated risks of a half dozen different nasties and counting. Yet when we intervene with supplements and manipulate the test, we don't get the desired results of less disease and lower yearly morbidity rates. SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin Everything you all have said is very confusing to me. I posted all my results and am confused are they good numbers or are they numbers I need to work on. Are my trigs to high, are the ratios to high. Are the hdl and ldl wrong? I do take crestor. I don't mean to sound stupid but I need just something simple that I can understand about all of this. SusanLa MO > This post not CC'd by email > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > with supplements and manipulate the test, we don't get the desired > results of less disease and lower yearly morbidity rates. > Everything you all have said is very confusing to me. I posted all my > results and am confused are they good numbers or are they numbers I need to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > SusanLa MO Susan, I didn't see all your numbers, just that your HDL is in the 30s, which is not considered desirable. Susan Alan: Patients who have the wrong kind of LDL ie. small dense particles and it is high can also have low triglycerides as a result of drug therapy. Otherwise are you suggesting that in individuals with high small dense LDL particles remain unresponsive to triglyceride lowering drugs. Try www.cbn.com/health/naturalhealth/drsears_heartattack.asp Larry > Alan: Patients who have the wrong kind of LDL ie. small dense particles > and it is high can also have low triglycerides as a result of drug > therapy. Otherwise are you suggesting that in individuals with high > small dense LDL particles remain unresponsive to triglyceride lowering > drugs. Try www.cbn.com/health/naturalhealth/drsears_heartattack.asp You get your medical information from the Christian Broadcasting Network? Yikes. Priscilla >> Alan: Patients who have the wrong kind of LDL ie. small dense particles >> and it is high can also have low triglycerides as a result of drug [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Priscilla Er, yeah... Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Alan/Priscilla: I didn't see Anil's "correction" posted earlier ...He meant to say TGL/HDL not LDL/TGL ratios.! That makes alot more sense. Larry This post not CC'd by email On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:43:46 -0500, Priscilla Ballou <vze23t8n@verizon.net> wrote: >> Alan: Patients who have the wrong kind of LDL ie. small dense particles >> and it is high can also have low triglycerides as a result of drug [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Priscilla G'day G'day Priscilla, It seems that in this instance the CBN place their faith in Dr Barry Sears, author of the Omega Rx Zone diet. Barry is no slug when it comes to discussing issues relating to omega-3 fats including EPA and DHA, omega-6 including GLA and AA. He also has an excellent grasp of the issues relating to sd-LDL. Like anyone else who takes their responsibilities seriously he updates his information from time to time. The copy I have of the Omega Rx Zone diet was published in 2002 The cbn article is more recent going by the 2003 date on the website. It could be that this site better represents his current knowledge. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin Priscilla: I only wish you put a happy face (:+) after your rude comment. Then I would know you were only kidding with me. Let me try again without using the word "good" or "bad" LDL levels. When either LDL or triglycerides are extremely high in diabetes, this is a problem needing drug therapy regardless of LDL particle size. Drug therapy may reduce this problem in part by lowering both the fluffy (harmless) and dense (harmful) LDL particle population. Statin therapy will lower the harmful LDL levels while at the same time the reduction in fluffy LDL particles "just go along for the ride" with no harmful or beneficial effects. Lowering triglyceride levels alone should not suggest that ones high LDL levels are primarily of the "harmless" LDL variety and contrary to what the TRG/HDL ratio might otherwise indicate. Larry > > Alan: Patients who have the wrong kind of LDL ie. small dense particles > > and it is high can also have low triglycerides as a result of drug [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Priscilla > Priscilla: I only wish you put a happy face (:+) after your rude > comment. Then I would know you were only kidding with me. You mean you really *do* get your medical information from the Christian Broadcasting Network? Yikes! May I suggest Medline or Pubmed? Or someone who searches there? ;-) > Let me try > again without using the word "good" or "bad" LDL levels. When either [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ones high LDL levels are primarily of the "harmless" LDL variety and > contrary to what the TRG/HDL ratio might otherwise indicate. Haven't you read Susan's replies? Drug therapy is not necessarily required. There are plenty of other things to try first. Personally, I would do a *lot* to avoid statins. I like my cognitive abilities, and I'm not looking to have them irrevocably damaged, thank you very much. You work for a pharmaceutical company, by any chance? > Larry > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > Priscilla Priscilla Priscilla: You are correct and when all else fails..Drug therapy is the only answer. I am sorry that I did not make this clear. One test is when drug therapy is discontinued and labs go "sky high" than what does one do??? You seem to be talking about people who have mainly a obesity problem and not a profound metabolic chemistry problem. Remember people like Tom Fixx who was in"excellent running shape", lean and died due to very abnormal lipids. Do you think drug treatment would not have helped him. Tom Fixx and diabetics have dyslipidemia in common!! Larry >Priscilla: I only wish you put a happy face (:+) after your rude >comment. Then I would know you were only kidding with me. Let me try [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >ones high LDL levels are primarily of the "harmless" LDL variety and >contrary to what the TRG/HDL ratio might otherwise indicate. Hi Larry There seems to be a basic philosophical problem here, between those, like you, who can make a statement like this: " When either LDL or triglycerides are extremely high in diabetes, this is a problem needing drug therapy regardless of LDL particle size." And there are others who feel that diet and exercise modification should be tried before use of the medications. I tend to be in the latter group; I accepted that I may need a statin when I could not reduce LDL by other means - but I don't think the few months of experiments without it did me any harm. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Hello Alan/Priscilla: You are correct and I agree that diet and everything else should be tried before any drugs including metformin, etc. Sorry if I didn't make this crystal clear. Now when weight is no longer (or never was) a factor for a given diabetic,diet is optimized and if/when statin treatment is discontinued.. LDL goes up 100% then regardless of LDL particle size, drug therapy may be unavoidable. Lots if not most diabetics are taking statins for good medical reason even though they don't like it and all else has failed. Larry > >Priscilla: I only wish you put a happy face (:+) after your rude > >comment. Then I would know you were only kidding with me. Let me try [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. > d&e, metformin 2x500mg Larry, Since I am not on any medication the LDL/HDL/Trigs truly reflect as risk predictors. Additionally I have been also doing hs-CRP tests which have now been identified as independent markers for predicting CVD. There tow things need to be taken together to truly evaluate additional risk factors. Even with the link that you pointed, my numbers by themselves do look good. Only after carefully considering the hs-CRP number (0.5 mg/dL) in my case the risk increases from 1 to 3-4 %. (ref: http://www.prlnet.com/HSCRP.htm and http://www.prlnet.com/CardiacRiskProfile.htm ) Is that enough to start statin treatment...I want to push my luck here and go for stricter lifestyle changes...Time will tell... Anil This post not CC'd by email >Larry, > >Since I am not on any medication the LDL/HDL/Trigs truly reflect as >risk predictors. Additionally I have been also doing hs-CRP tests which >have now been identified as independent markers for predicting CVD. G'day G'day Anil, Hey, I'm impressed with the lengths you are going to, to avoid complications. What impresses me most is that you are finding out what is biochemically true for you. So often people do one thing or another because it conforms to current opinion as generally being a good idea. You are finding out your hs-CRP levels and then deciding what action to take based on the results. It's frighteningly sensible. >There tow things need to be taken together to truly evaluate additional >risk factors. Even with the link that you pointed, my numbers by >themselves do look good. Only after carefully considering the hs-CRP >number (0.5 mg/dL) in my case the risk increases from 1 to 3-4 %. (ref: >http://www.prlnet.com/HSCRP.htm and >http://www.prlnet.com/CardiacRiskProfile.htm ) The website must be busy tonight. <grin> I get "page not available" error reports. To me an increase from 1% to 3% sounds serious if it means a trebling of risk. On the other hand it might refer to something very insignificant. We need to know what is being referred to by the percentages. >Is that enough to start statin treatment...I want to push my luck here >and go for stricter lifestyle changes...Time will tell... "Stricter" worries me. It seems a very subjective way to describe a dietary decision. To be on the same page we need an operational definition of "stricter". It might mean "more vegan" to you and "with a better omega-3:omega-6 ratio" to me. >Anil Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin Good day Quentin, Be rest assured that just reading your responses and concern has by itself reduced my CVD risks. Feeling joyous with simple things that happen around us is perhaps most over looked lifestyle change we can adopt. Anyway as much as these simple things help us, the foundation of our health does depend on our life history or the neglect there of in taking care of the wonderful body that most of us were lucky enough to get at birth. If only I had continued the same exercise any healthy baby takes hundreds of times much before it had an opportunity to take so much as fist step! I don't think any one of us feels baby is not having enough exercise! The lifestyle changes I hinted at was along the lines of doing more vigorous exercise. I find to my delight that doing a brisk walk for 1 hr a day no more makes me even moderately exulted. So over the next year I will go for more emphasis on exercise like Yoga to see how it will affect my numbers. I am more interested in ability to get into routine that I can sustain on 10-20 yrs time scale. So while pumping iron may very well do wonders right now to my HDL I am not going there as I don't see that I can keep up with it in long term. There is an additional dimension to my experiment. And experiment it is I will admit! I want to come up with a lifestyle that diabetes folks every where in the world can follow: Rich and Poor alike. So keeping the food source cheap and widely available is important for me. Similarly the exercise regimen should be such that no external equipment is necessary for building good body and healthy muscle mass. I am sorry the links I gave you did not work for you. The research on that link was from 2003. Here is additional information I found on hs-CRP that is much more recent. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/524476 As you can see they still do take hs-CRP as an independent risk factors. However the red flags are raised for diabetic patients with hs-CRP levels > 3.0 mg/L. I am at 0.5. I however feel getting hs-CRP < 0.3 should be my goal while improving the TC/HDL ratio. Increasing HDL may do the trick. So exercise will be my main handle. Doing it more also addresses BG numbers thus hoping to bring A1C a notch down.. Wishing your the very best, Anil This post not CC'd by email >Good day Quentin, > >Be rest assured that just reading your responses and concern has by >itself reduced my CVD risks. Feeling joyous with simple things that >happen around us is perhaps most over looked lifestyle change we can >adopt. G'day G'day Anil, Nicely said. It is certainly true for me. >Anyway as much as these simple things help us, the foundation of our >health does depend on our life history or the neglect there of in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >The lifestyle changes I hinted at was along the lines of doing more >vigorous exercise. That makes sense. >I find to my delight that doing a brisk walk for 1 >hr a day no more makes me even moderately exulted. Spell check tricks us all from time to time. I'm sure you meant exhausted. I'd feel exalted if I could manage an hour walk. Having re-jarred the fractured vertebrae means even one kilometre is quite a challenge. >So over the next >year I will go for more emphasis on exercise like Yoga to see how it >will affect my numbers. That fits. I went to yoga classes once. They certainly helped me feel much more relaxed and flexible. Hey, I'm impressed at the positive attitude you adopt to being healthy. >I am more interested in ability to get into >routine that I can sustain on 10-20 yrs time scale. So while pumping >iron may very well do wonders right now to my HDL I am not going there >as I don't see that I can keep up with it in long term. It's a whole new level of thinking. Glad to see you have decided to stick around. It is important to know that if I get to live longer than predicted by the charts there will be people like yourself who are long term successes. We all need a future to look forward to. FWIIW, there is a print of a painting hanging above my computer entitled "Everyone needs a library" It features a young lady some archetypal villain has tied to the railway track and the train is fast approaching. She is reading a book of "VERY, short stories." >There is an additional dimension to my experiment. And experiment it is >I will admit! I want to come up with a lifestyle that diabetes folks >every where in the world can follow: Rich and Poor alike. So keeping >the food source cheap and widely available is important for me. Nobility of spirit is IMHO more than just a fanciful optional concept when it comes to life and death as we face. To be successful in dealing with lives woes we need to believe in something greater than ourselves and to be part of that. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that you would want to find a diet that rich and poor can follow alike. It is all about having a sense of belonging. >Similarly the exercise regimen should be such that no external >equipment is necessary for building good body and healthy muscle mass. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >factors. However the red flags are raised for diabetic patients with >hs-CRP levels > 3.0 mg/L. I am at 0.5. Brilliant results Anil. I've printed the article to read. >I however feel getting hs-CRP < 0.3 should be my goal while improving >the TC/HDL ratio. Increasing HDL may do the trick. So exercise will be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Wishing your the very best, >Anil And best wishes to you, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >Alan: Patients who have the wrong kind of LDL ie. small dense particles >and it is high can also have low triglycerides as a result of drug [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Larry I've saved it and will read it later today. But I must admit - my initial reaction was the same as Priscilla's. But I will read it. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. This post not CC'd by email On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:42:42 +1100, Alan S <loralweightandcarbs@optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>Alan: Patients who have the wrong kind of LDL ie. small dense particles >>and it is high can also have low triglycerides as a result of drug [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. >d&e, metformin 2x500mg G'day G'day Alan, IMHO it is very similar to discussions we have had here many times on the importance of achieving a lowering of the TG:HDL ratio. One area where I happen to disagree with Dr Barry Sears is in interpreting the significance of the Lyon study. Otherwise for most readers of asd it is old hat. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >This post not CC'd by email > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >Best wishes, Thanks Quentin. Time is a problem at the moment - but I'll get to it:-) I think, on a quick scan, the only significant difference I noted was a Trigs/HDL ratio limit of 4 instead of the 3 that other studies use - but that was just a skim. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. > Hi all, I need help on my hdl. Getting it to go higher. It's in the 30's > now. My walks don't seem to help. I can't drink wine. Please help if you > have any ideas. > > SusanLa Mo Hi Susan, I've been working on this too. I think Quentin and Annette, as well as other knowledgeable posters here, have recommended a diet that includes "good oils" like EV olive oil, oily fish like mackrel and wild salmon, avocados, and nuts. The other things they have mentioned are exercising and losing weight, and of course giving up smoking if you indulge. |
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