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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2006good lipid numbers
I haven't read all the responses to Kurt's survey, but there are a remarkable number of remarkably good cholesterol numbers, particularly considering that triglycerides/HDL is supposed to be a good measure of insulin resistance. My own new numbers are: LDL 95 HDL 69 triglycerides 36 and there are a number of people who have me beat, on the LDL but even on the HDL. So what do we conclude from that? That low carb works? That the idea that type 2 diabetes is a disease of fat metabolism is wrong or applies only to one group of people and there are a bunch of us who have a different variant? Any thoughts? Pam t2 since Nov. 2004, diet and exercise My own numbers are in the normal range and my mom's are not. I'm diabetic, and she's not. I suspect we are all at least slightly different, and statistics are what they are. Studies suggest strong correlations for significant numbers of people, but no one has proven cause and effect--especially not for the entire population. pc > I haven't read all the responses to Kurt's survey, but there are a > remarkable number of remarkably good cholesterol numbers, particularly > considering that triglycerides/HDL is supposed to be a good measure of > insulin resistance. My own new numbers are: I had the exact same thought browsing the numbers. > LDL 95 > HDL 69 > triglycerides 36 > > and there are a number of people who have me beat, on the LDL but even > on the HDL. Yours are still fabulous! > So what do we conclude from that? That low carb works? That the idea > that type 2 diabetes is a disease of fat metabolism is wrong or applies > only to one group of people and there are a bunch of us who have a > different variant? I just improved both my TGs and HDL significantly by bringing my blood sugar down an average of 20 mg/dl at all times. the TG/HDL ratio is approaching 1 and even my Endocrinologist who has been hassling me about my lipids for years admitted that all my ratios were perfect. I did it through adding insulin since I can't get the kinds of numbers people here do with diet any more. It was also without exercise as I have had so much trouble with my back and foot over the past year that serious exercise really hasn't been an option. The basis for all the information you hear about diabetes, lipids, and heart disease risk is data drawn from a population of diabetics where the best controlled have A1cs around 7% and most are much higher. So my guess is that the diabetes lipid problem is really a "too high glucose" problem. Bring your glucose down to truly normal levels--which would be 5% or lower if possible, but definitely under 5.5% and your lipids should improve greatly without drugs. --Jenny http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes Diabetes Info http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood Sugar Under Control >I haven't read all the responses to Kurt's survey, but there are a >remarkable number of remarkably good cholesterol numbers, particularly [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Pam >t2 since Nov. 2004, diet and exercise My take: How to generate lousy lipids: 1. Eat high carb 2. Have lousy genes 3. Be a couch potato 4. Be a man How to generate good lipids 1. Eat low carb 2. Have the good HDL genes 3. Exercise, exercise, exercise 4. Be a woman My guess. . .you are scoring on 3 of 4 maybe even 4 of 4. My reading of medical sites suggest that high triglycerides are the real problem; they can drive down HDL. I don't know if "high carb + couch potato" can overwhelm the "good HDL gene". Since you didn't mention any med use designed to give you that really nice HDL, perhaps you can try to dig out your "before the Nov 2004 wake-up call" cholesterol numbers to give us a clue. ". . . .type 2 diabetes is a disease of fat metabolism. . . ." More of my take: Type 2 is a genetic disease. If you have the genes, you will get the disease sooner or later. However, "sooner" can be age 15; "later" can be age 115. Your lifestyle helps determine which direction you go and "fat metabolism" is part of that picture for at least 80-90% of T2. Regards Old Al > How to generate good lipids > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > My guess. . .you are scoring on 3 of 4 maybe even 4 of 4. 4 of 4. Maybe 80 grams of carbohydrate a day, not counting what I eat on long bike rides and runs. About 8 hours of fairly high intensity exercise a week training for triathlons. > My reading of medical sites suggest that high triglycerides are the real > problem; they can drive down HDL. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > really nice HDL, perhaps you can try to dig out your "before the Nov 2004 > wake-up call" cholesterol numbers to give us a clue. No meds. I don't have any old numbers, but I remember my doctor telling me many years ago not to worry that my total cholesterol was close to 200 because my good cholesterol was very high. So I'm quite sure I do have the good HDL genes, as in those days I didn't live so healthy a lifestyle, though I walked my dog and was only a little overweight. > ". . . .type 2 diabetes is a disease of fat metabolism. . . ." > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > direction you go and "fat metabolism" is part of that picture for at least > 80-90% of T2. How you you reconcile 80-90% with the large number of people in the poll with good cholesterol numbers? Pam I don't low carb. I have high HDL & low tri's, even before taking Lipitor. I don't know about my genes, but I am female & do exercise. But (pre-D) when I was a high-carb pretty-much couch potato, I did have much lower HDL & higher tri's. For me, *moderate* carb works -- along with all that exercise. bj > My take: > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Regards > Old Al > >For me, *moderate* carb works -- along with all that exercise. > >bj Yes, I finally found my groove with eating only whole foods and moderate carb plus lots of exercise (every day and sometimes multiple times a day). As long as I can keep it in check this way, I'll continue. pc >> >For me, *moderate* carb works -- along with all that exercise. >> >bj [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > times a day). As long as I can keep it in check this way, I'll > continue. Well, I don't do every day, and certainly not multiple times a day! And some of my "workouts" are pretty mild, like a stroll around the block. OTOH, some of them are more vigorous & longer. I have a 10-miler coming up on Sunday, (yes, I am trained for it -- I ain't fast, but I can do the distance -- I don't do a 10-miler after nothing but strolls around the block!) so will take it (very!) easy the two days before & after! At least the weather looks promising -- last year it was cold, wet, & windy. bj >I haven't read all the responses to Kurt's survey, but there are a >remarkable number of remarkably good cholesterol numbers, particularly [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >HDL 69 >triglycerides 36 36??? That's not a misprint? Wow! I'd love to have those numbers - but I'm not surprised at those from someone who can discuss 1/2 marathons with words like "only":-) >and there are a number of people who have me beat, on the LDL but even >on the HDL. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >only to one group of people and there are a bunch of us who have a >different variant? Your thoughts seemed pretty good to me. Although I'm not sure which variant, if any, "a disease of fat metabolism" would apply to. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg  SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. > 36??? That's not a misprint? Wow! I'd love to have those > numbers - but I'm not surprised at those from someone who > can discuss 1/2 marathons with words like "only":-) Nope. Can triglycerides be too low? But my favorite story from reading the replies to Kurt is the one from Roger Zoul, who wrote that the lab couldn't calculate his cholesterol numbers because his HDL was over 100. Pam :: Alan S wrote: :: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] :: that the lab couldn't calculate his cholesterol numbers because his :: HDL was over 100. I read about a study that was being conducted up in NY on folks who had trigs less than 50. Apparently, there is *some* issue with low trigs (don't know what, though). I even called about the study and gave my name and stuff, but I guess they had no interest in someone in SC. > I read about a study that was being conducted up in NY on folks who had > trigs less than 50. Apparently, there is *some* issue with low trigs (don't > know what, though). I even called about the study and gave my name and > stuff, but I guess they had no interest in someone in SC. Here it is: <http://patientrecruitment.nhlbi.nih.gov/Triglycerides50.aspx> Makes it sound like a problem. Pam :: Roger Zoul wrote: :: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] :: <http://patientrecruitment.nhlbi.nih.gov/Triglycerides50.aspx> Makes :: it sound like a problem. Yeah, that's it. Good thing I didn't get in, though. Had I, they might end up blaming LC for causing low triglycerides! :) >> I read about a study that was being conducted up in NY on folks who >> had trigs less than 50. Apparently, there is *some* issue with low [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > <http://patientrecruitment.nhlbi.nih.gov/Triglycerides50.aspx> Makes > it sound like a problem. I think the study says that low TGL may be caused by Abetalipoproteinemia and Hypobetalipoproteinemia. However low TGL by itself isn't a problem. Also Abetalipoproteinemia and Hypobetalipoproteinemia, are very very rare genetic disorders, so most people need not worry. I have had TGL in the 40's at one time. :: pam in sc wrote: ::: Roger Zoul wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] :: very very rare genetic disorders, so most people need not worry. :: I have had TGL in the 40's at one time. At the link, it says this: "If you have triglycerides <50 mg/dL, you are invited to participate in a study in an attempt to diagnose and follow your disorder. There are several known causes of low triglycerides and they include Abetalipoproteinemia and Hypobetalipoproteinemia. However, many causes of low triglycerides that have yet to be discovered. " The first line seems to imply that Trigs< 50mg/dL is a disorder. The rest says there are seveval known causes of this disorder and two are listed, but many others are unknown. Did you read something other than what's at the link? >>LDL 95 >>HDL 69 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > numbers - but I'm not surprised at those from someone who > can discuss 1/2 marathons with words like "only":-) I think I'm the one who said that "only" about a 1/2M (& it was "only" one time doing it! and it was "only" in comparison to a full M). My tri's haven't ever been in the 30's, though I have had some 40's. Usually more like 50's, recently But I do have HDL in the 80's-90's, it's the LDL that got stubborn about staying above 100 -- only slightly, but it had been bouncing under & over it for some time. Docs wanted my on Lipitor & I finally agreed. LDL now much better behaved, but no apparent effect on HDL or tri's. I opted not to try to sign up for the 1/2 marathon in DC tomorrow (I might have talked my way into qualifying but it would mean rounding down on a possible qualie time; I don't know if they'd have gone for that) -- but it's only a week until the Cherry Blossom 10miler which I am planning to do -- and it looks like the cherry blossoms will be out at just the right time! bj >>>LDL 95 >>>HDL 69 [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >and it looks like the cherry blossoms will be out at just the right time! >bj Sorry about that - I was mixing up my athletic posters:-) I've been watching the 50km walkers in the Commonwealth Games out here on TV. How they could do that for more than 50 metres is beyond me. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. >>I think I'm the one who said that "only" about a 1/2M (& it was "only" one >>time doing it! and it was "only" in comparison to a full M). > Sorry about that - I was mixing up my athletic posters:-) > > I've been watching the 50km walkers in the Commonwealth > Games out here on TV. How they could do that for more than > 50 metres is beyond me. Racewalking is a technique that can be learned -- I've had lessons in a group class, & teacher was medium-big preggers at the time. I think of it as an "in reserve" activity that I can do if I have to stop running. It's not the same as "fast walking" or even what some call "power walking" -- there are technical requirements that proper racewalk races have spotters to watch for "breaks". But in regular road races, one can opt to walk any-ole-way (planned or unplanned!); the only problem might be completing it within any time limits. And at low-key club races, you can often arrange to start early if you think you're going to take "too long". bj Alan, since not being able to walk beyond a few steps or stand any longer than a few minutes (like five or so), it amazes me just to watch people walk or stand, period. The pain has become so severe that I honestly cannot remember how it felt to walk and stand, and I look with awe at people walking around me, especially where they have to stand for any length of time. An example was going shopping at Christmas, and watching all the people stand in line for so long (I was in my wheelchair, my granddaughter pushing me). It made we wince just to watch, however, I used to be able to do the exact same thing without any problem. Life changes for us, so we just make the adjustments necessary to keep competing in it. We're in the process of getting me a motorized scooter or wheelchair (if anyone has a personal recommendation I'd love to hear it) so I can have more independence, plus helping Jim out too; at 66 he's developing some of his own limitations, and pushing me is tiring for him sometimes, especially shopping. :o) Shopping by itself is tiring to him, though he is very good about not showing it, or griping and complaining. I got a good guy here. He's recently retired, and I am enjoying him being here with me. Billie in AR . How they could do that for more than : 50 metres is beyond me. : : Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. : d&e, metformin 2x500mg >Alan, since not being able to walk beyond a few steps or stand any longer than a few minutes >(like five or so), it amazes me just to watch people walk or stand, period. The pain has become [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Billie in AR Hi Billie Best wishes to both of you; I hope things improve. People like you stop me moaning about my lot. I just got back from a 45th class reunion (we base ours on high school commencement year). It was a shock to realise I hadn't turned up at the wrong place when I saw all these oldies in the school quadrangle. I couldn't possibly have gone to school with these old-age pensioners! Then I realised that in about 5 years all of us would qualify for that. I also realised that I was one of the 10% who seemed to look relatively healthy. Then, in chats with people I hadn't met for over forty years - I realised that some of them had gone through personal tragedies - especially with children with MS, cancer, arrested development etc - that my personal tragedies paled into insignificance. A sobering experience (metaphorically - I still enjoyed a nice Shiraz with dinner:-) All the best, Billie, Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Alan, I hope you had as much fun at your reunion as I did at mine. Ours was over a course of two days, and we had so much fun together. We had some of those same strange older people at ours, too. Hmmmm..... must be a world-wide thing! Thank you for the well-wishes. You know we quit raising children just three years ago when Ash was thirteen, so this is our first chance for some **our time** and we are beginning to learn that *all* of our time is ours to do with, and to go where and when we please, though much of it right now has been to my multiple doctors' appointments, and surgical procedures. Looks like they got the last kidney stone, and hopefully no more lithotripsies, and more free time for us. We went to see that new great-granddaughter a few weeks ago, and what a wonderful experience. I held her for the last hour before we left to come home, so my last, and lasting memory is of her sleeping so sweetly and peacefully in my arms. I have always loved being a mommy, and those babies still get to me even now, though I *do* enjoy giving them back to their mommies when the work part needs to be done. While it is good for us to look at ourselves with respect to others and their situations, it is also good to remember that we have our own boundaries of what is tolerable for us. We each have different levels, and our own pain is just as real as someone who *appears* to suffer more than we do. It is interesting that you should remark as you did because cancer is the *one* thing that I fear the most! These autoimmune, chronic illnesses *seem* to be more controllable than cancer, but that could just be my coping-skill-thinking at work. *s* I don't think it is so much how much is wrong with us, and the amount of discomfort, but it is our coping skills that we bring to the table to deal with it all. Every time I see your name, it swiftly runs across my mind the fact of your leukemia. For that split moment in time, I wish you well, and hope that you are as well as you sound here, knowing that we sometimes keep much to ourselves as we interact here. :: >Billie in AR : [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] : Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. : d&e, metformin 2x500mg >Alan, I hope you had as much fun at your reunion as I did at mine. <nice things snipped but read and appreciated> Not so much "fun" as enjoyable and fascinating; it was pretty low key. Really just a means of getting us all together to re-meet each other. On Saturday afternoon, we met for a school tour with the current principal, broken into groups and guided by volunteers from the current senior year, followed by a few of us repairing to the river-side pub to chat about old times. We were all issued name-tags. Just as well - most of us were unrecognisable after forty-plus years. Then a nostalgic dinner in the evening with the usual speakers recalling teachers, corporal punishment and funny experiences - but mostly with us all rediscovering old friends and exchanging life stories. One nice thing was no "one-upmanship". We all dressed fairly casually, no-one was interested in who was rich, who was poor, who was a big success and who wasn't - it was all about people, and families, and becoming grandparents and so on. And also the tragedies that came along the way. Finally, a breakfast in the school quadrangle this morning cooked by the Parents and Citizen's Association and served by volunteer students, before we said au-revoir. Our town was one of those where jobs were hard to find in the '60s, so nearly all of us had moved elsewhere and very few had maintained contact. There were people there from thousands of miles away. We don't have reunions often - this was the second, and I missed the first in the early '90s. Yep - not so much "fun" as enjoyable, and I'm really glad I went. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. :: I haven't read all the responses to Kurt's survey, but there are a :: remarkable number of remarkably good cholesterol numbers, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] :: :: So what do we conclude from that? It's a coin toss. :: That low carb works? For us, yes. For them, no. :: That the :: idea that type 2 diabetes is a disease of fat metabolism is wrong or :: applies only to one group of people and there are a bunch of us who :: have a different variant? Yes. I think. Though, I thought it was a disease of sugar metabolism. :: Any thoughts? No. :) The only thoughts I have is that those numbers are so good they sound too good to be true. You either have great genetics, an unbelievable diet, or on lots of meds. Whatever it is, its working for you. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. |
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