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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2006

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Neuropathy

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Craig - 21 Mar 2006 23:30 GMT
Hi Everyone,
Here is an article on diabetic neuropathy I found which I thought was
interesting and seemingly well researched.The article has links to a couple
of sites at the end, but doesn't appear to be selling anything specific.
Certainly worth a careful read.Apologies in advance if someone has already
posted it.
http://tinyurl.com/j4tvh

Craig
Type 2
NSW, Australia
Robert Miles - 22 Mar 2006 01:50 GMT
> Hi Everyone,
> Here is an article on diabetic neuropathy I found which I thought was
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Type 2
> NSW, Australia

It's advice on aspartame and supplements will probably not get a friendly
reception here.
Craig - 22 Mar 2006 06:07 GMT
Hi Robert,
I take on board your comment about aspartame and supplements. There is no
agenda in my post; I have no particular loyalty to any camp and am certainly
not here to troll. I almost considered a disclamatory  remark on the
aspartame comment and figured it was probably better to leave well enough
alone.

That having being said, I post because I believe it is important for us all
to have as much information freely available to us when we make (important)
decisions regarding our health. Many of us have discovered- sometimes the
hard way- spending the hard earned dollar on "snake oil"  and even sometimes
following the advice  of the allopathic fraternity to the detriment of our
health that not everything we read or all advice we follow will be benefical
or useful.This applies equally (and maybe specifically) to this article as
well as  it does to any other article or advice on the Net or anywhere else

From my point of view I was particularly interested in the GLA, Vitamin C,
ALA combo information in the article.

While I was in the US  a little while back, I began taking ALA and noticed a
marked improvement in my symptoms. I remember reading somewhere also that
ALA is a recognized treatment for diabetes in Germany. I wondered out loud
if it might be possible to increase the benefit I found from the ALA
supplement by adding these other ingredients. The short answer is:- I don't
know; I haven't tried. The supplement industry is ever ready to peddle its
merchandise in exchange for  sometimes a not unsizeable sum.It's always a
case of "Let the buyer beware".

I am certainly not stating that this will  be beneficial for everyone (or
anyone), as we all know YMMV. I recall that there are some here too that
have tried EPO and various other supplements.

Please accept my apologies to the group if I have offended anyone by posting
the initial link.
Best Wishes,
Craig
Type 2
NSW, Australia

>> Hi Everyone,
>> Here is an article on diabetic neuropathy I found which I thought was
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> It's advice on aspartame and supplements will probably not get a friendly
> reception here.
J.C. Hartmann - 22 Mar 2006 06:40 GMT
> Please accept my apologies to the group if I have offended anyone by posting
> the initial link.

That particular URL has been posted and discussed before in MHD, so
don't give it a second thought.

The original author, Stan Angilley, used to post frequently on MHD and
always was able to very capably defend his conclusions with real
scientific research. I've been following his recommendations WRT
ALA/EPO/VitC for over 6 years now.

Unfortunately, Stan passed away in March, 2004.

Jim
Craig - 22 Mar 2006 12:40 GMT
Hi Jim,
Thanks for your response.
I am sorry to hear of Stan's passing away.  He certainly sounded like a very
knowledgeable man.
Would you please mind sharing either on or off list your
findings/benefits/results with regard to your supplements? I guess if you've
been doing something for that many years it would be logical to expect that
you are deriving positive benefits.
Best Wishes,
Craig
Type 2
NSW, Australia
>  <snip> The original author, Stan Angilley, used to post frequently on MHD
> and always was able to very capably defend his conclusions with real
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Jim
J.C. Hartmann - 22 Mar 2006 17:25 GMT
> Hi Jim,
> Thanks for your response.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> been doing something for that many years it would be logical to expect that
> you are deriving positive benefits.

At the risk of somehow setting myself up as the Supplement Guy, here's
what *I* take and why.

First and foremost, I take copious quantities of Aspartame, along with
Splenda and acesulfame-k in the form of soft drinks. I supplement this
with ad libitum amounts of caffeine in the form of darker roast coffees.
I find that this keeps my tonsils well hydrated.

I have discovered that I feel better, and control my DM better, by
adhering to a low carb diet. With years of eating and testing, I know
that I do best on 60-100g of CHO per day. My personal targets are 10g at
brekky, 20 at lunch, and 30 at dinner. I tend to spread the other 40g
around by not worrying about the occasional small amount of carbs in a
small "taste" of something I want, minor errors in my guesstimates, or
hidden carbs that I have no way of knowing about. Most of my carbs come
from green vegetables. Because of my dietary restrictions, it seems
logical that I might be missing out on some necessary vitamins and
minerals, so I take a daily "adult" multivitamin tablet. I don't stress
over the brand or individual components.

Since I take Lipitor, I supplement with 50mg of oil-based CoE Q10. The
statins tend to limit the body's natural production of this important
coenzyme.

When I was still in high school, I hurt my lower back playing football.
(The American gridiron version.) Subsequent MRIs have shown I have two
damaged discs. I became used to having numbness, tingling, and pain in
my toes, feet, and legs, and was told this was due to the discs rubbing
on my spinal cord at L4-L5 and L5-S1. Later, as I progressed from
reactive hypoglycemia through impaired glucose tolerance and finally to
frank Type-2 DM, my own research led me to believe that a component of
this pain might be diabetic peripheral neuropathy.

I was offered a number of meds by my doctors, but again my own research
led me to decline based on their nasty side effects. By this time, I was
actively researching DM, and met Stan Angilley on a reflector-based
group. His protocol convinced me to try his DPN Cocktail of ALA, EPO,
and Vitamins C and E. (The VitE was subsequently dropped.)

By this time I had achieved euglycemia through diet and that certainly
made my neuropathy much better, but didn't totally relieve the symptoms.
After taking the cocktail for about 3 months, I noticed that I no longer
had any DPN symptoms. My A1c had dropped from the mid 5s to less than
5%, something that I attribute to the ALA.

Is my case conclusive evidence? Absolutely not, but others here have
reported similar results, although it is all anecdotal and should
therefore be somewhat suspect. There are more specifics at:
http://www.diabetic-talk.org/dpn.htm

It is my understanding from some Aussie mates that ALA is difficult or
expensive to obtain in Oz, especially after the scandal surrounding your
largest supplement marketer. This problem may have been solved by now.

So, that's my testimony as a supplement junkie. I also recommend the
occasional supplement of a VB, Emu, or XXXX. It keeps life worth living,
and will also help keep your tonsils well hydrated.

Jim
Beav - 22 Mar 2006 22:53 GMT
>> Hi Jim,
>> Thanks for your response.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> with ad libitum amounts of caffeine in the form of darker roast coffees.
> I find that this keeps my tonsils well hydrated.

Doesn't caffeine DE-hydrate?

Signature

Beav
OMF#19
VN 750
Zed Thou

mail is beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com (with the obvious changes)

J.C. Hartmann - 22 Mar 2006 23:26 GMT
>>>Hi Jim,
>>>Thanks for your response.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Doesn't caffeine DE-hydrate?

Actually, no. The idea that caffeine is a mild diuretic is an old wive's
tale. http://www.ific.org/foodinsight/2002/ja/caffdehydnbfi402.cfm

Perhaps you would have been happier if I said that coffee keeps my
tonsils dust-free.

Cheers,
Jim
Craig - 23 Mar 2006 13:53 GMT
Hi Jim,
Thanks for your detailed response. I suspect that you take the occasional
humour supplement too:-) I like the sound of the darker roast coffee
supplements .If you ever make it to Oz, I would be happy to chat over a cup
or two of some of our better brews,coffee or beer. I noticed when I was in
the US, BTW, that your VB (Victoria Bitter, a popular brew originating
Australia for those unfamiliar with the abbreviation) is made in Canada.
The problem with your lower back  certainly sounds unpleasant at best.
I hear what you say about some of the effects of the neuro meds for DPN
too... helps some enourmously and on the other hand you hear of lawsuits
over some of the newer and "safer" ones.Makes me reluctant to try any also.
You are mark on when you say that ALA is expensive here. When I was there I
used to buy ALA from Walmart for about (if memory serves me, about 7-8
dollars US.) Here the cheapest I've found it so far is about 25 dollars AU
for 30 100mg capsules.
All the best,
Craig

>  <snip> First and foremost, I take copious quantities of Aspartame, along
> with Splenda and acesulfame-k in the form of soft drinks. I supplement
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
>
> Jim
morris - 23 Mar 2006 10:43 GMT
Hi Craig,

I found the ALA helped with my neuropathy, although I can't swear to
that because I lowered my A1c to the 5.0 range at the same time. So it
might have just been that.  At that time I had read about ALA  through
google searches on neuropathy and had not heard of EPO. The ALA did
nothing for my blood sugar levels, however.

After I quit the ALA, my blood sugar levels stayed the same, and my
neuropathy did not come back. Perhaps six months ago I read on a.s.d
about the combination of ALA and EPO, and decided to try it for a while
to see if it would root out the remaining neuropathic symptoms--mainly
occasional cold feet and some numbness there. So I took both for about
4 months, and this time the effect was rather minimal. Perhaps there
was some improvement, but it was less noticeable because I was starting
from so much of a better place.  So it is  hard for me to say that the
EPO improved things based on personal experience.

What convinced me to try it though was the discussion then in which a
number of seemingly quite intelligent people mentioned that they
believed it had helped or was helping them. Those people are still
around and might reply with their experiences again. Otherwise search
back in the last few months of last year for EPO and you will find a
lot relating to your question.

Morris
Craig - 23 Mar 2006 14:15 GMT
Hi Morris,
Thanks for posting.
I appreciate the  discussion of what does and doesn't work for different
people.This is a great group for  info with all the practical experience of
those at the front line.
Congratulations on the A1c BTW! Thank you also for the suggestions on
searching back a few months into last year.
I hope that you are able to find relief for your remaining symptoms.
Best wishes,
Craig
Type 2
NSW, Australia
> Hi Craig,
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Morris
James E. - 22 Mar 2006 17:47 GMT
Nothing but spam for snake oil. Just an ad for specialized vitamins and
miracle cures

As a rule, I don't even read URLs with a .com extension. There is always a
hidden commercial agenda. Look at the all the snake oil ads in the sidebar
of this site.

Then he comes up with gems like "Niacin (vitamin B3) improves blood
circulation by restoring electrical polarity in blood cells". What crap.

A cleverly disguised spammer.

Signature

James

> Hi Everyone,
> Here is an article on diabetic neuropathy I found which I thought was
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Type 2
> NSW, Australia
Craig - 25 Mar 2006 12:02 GMT
Hi James,

I guess with most of these things somebody pays(I'm sure the advertisers
would like it to be us). Geocities offers free web space in exchange for
their advertising, which may be the reason for the sidebar. I  guess you
would expect that advertisng to be somewhat targeted to the original content
otherwise they would charge us all to view the websites.The snake oil
advertising could certainly be a trap for the unwary though and certainly
annoying.
I always prefer to read the info and discard the advertising and to draw  my
own conclusions, as you have done.

On the Mayo Clinic site it discusses vitamin B3 under the subheading of "
Uses Based On Tradition Or Theory" and lists "blood circulation improvement"
as one of the uses.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/niacin/NS_patient-niacin
I guess that makes at least half of the statement credible.I don't know
about the electrical polarity effect?
Best wishes,
Craig
Type 2
NSW, Australia

> Nothing but spam for snake oil. Just an ad for specialized vitamins and
> miracle cures
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> A cleverly disguised spammer.
 
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