Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2006

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Coffee, the bad news and the bad news

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Chris Hogg - 20 Mar 2006 23:00 GMT
This week's BBC Radio 4 "The Food Programme" was on coffee.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/foodprogramme.shtml

about a quarter of the way through.

According to Prof. Robert Superco, head of molecular, genetic and
preventive cardiology at the Fuqua Heart Centre in Atlanta, Georgia,
more than about three or four cups per day of caffeinated coffee
raises blood pressure (no surprise there), but a similar amount of
decaf coffee raises LDL cholesterol (the bad stuff), neither of which
is good news for diabetics.

The caffeinated coffee in his study was made from Arabica beans, but
the decaf was from Robusta beans. Apparently the latter are commonly
used for making decaf because they are stronger flavored which makes
up for the loss of flavour that occurs during the decaf process.

Googling for coffee + cholesterol gives the following:

http://scholar.google.com/url?sa=U&q=http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/54
/3/599


Quote
Caffeinated and decaffeinated coffee effects on plasma lipoprotein
cholesterol, apolipoproteins, and lipase activity: a controlled,
randomized trial

HR Superko, W Bortz Jr, PT Williams, JJ Albers and PD Wood
Stanford Center for Research in Disease Prevention, Stanford
University School of Medicine, CA.

Coffee consumption has been associated with elevated plasma
cholesterol. One hundred eighty-one men consumed a standard
caffeinated coffee for 2 mo followed by randomization to continue
caffeinated coffee (control), change to decaffeinated coffee or no
coffee for 2 mo. Plasma low-density-lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol and
apolipoprotein B concentrations increased significantly (0.12 +/- 0.65
mmol/L, P less than 0.025; 0.06 +/- 0.12 g/L, P less than 0.0004,
respectively) in the group that changed to decaffeinated coffee. In a
subgroup (n = 51), post-heparin lipoprotein lipase decreased
significantly more (-270 mmol free fatty acids.L-1.h-1, P less than
0.003) in the decaffeinated- coffee group. Resting heart rate and
blood pressure did not change significantly. Change from caffeinated
to decaffeinated coffee increased plasma LDL cholesterol and
apolipoprotein B whereas discontinuation of caffeinated coffee
revealed no change. This finding suggests that a coffee component
other than caffeine is responsible for the LDL cholesterol,
apolipoprotein B, and lipase activity changes reported in this
investigation.
Unquote

In the radio programme, Superco attributed the effect on cholesterol
as being due to the differences in the detailed composition of the two
types of beans, rather than the decaffeinating process (which here
used water).

I'm no expert but AIUI an '-ase' (as here in lipase) is an enzyme that
breaks down something, and in this case I assume that the decrease in
the 'post-heparin lipoprotein lipase' is brought about by something in
the Robusta beans and means that there's less of this cholesterol-
buster around in people who drink lots of decaf, hence the increase in
their LDL cholesterol.

Signature

Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

Alan S - 21 Mar 2006 05:12 GMT
>This week's BBC Radio 4 "The Food Programme" was on coffee.
>
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/foodprogramme.shtml
>
>about a quarter of the way through.

<snip>

Hi All

It's a cycle, isn't it? Periodically, we have:

cinnamon
alcohol (inc wine)
coffee
a*sp**t*m*
red meat
vinegar
potatoes
pick a herb
etc etc

I'll see your study and raise it several others, if I bother
to google asd for our last thread on it.

Actually, I did, and found a few:
http://tinyurl.com/ok3c9
http://tinyurl.com/pr7av
http://tinyurl.com/r4wlg
http://tinyurl.com/qumuo

The subject has been fairly thoroughly discussed in the
past. Some interesting links there.

And I'll still imbibe or eat all of the above - in
moderation.

ANYTHING in excess is dangerous to your health. So is a
deficiency of  many other things.

Balance is the key.

In all of life.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 2x500mg
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Chris Hogg - 21 Mar 2006 22:54 GMT
>>This week's BBC Radio 4 "The Food Programme" was on coffee.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>I'll see your study and raise it several others, if I bother
>to google asd for our last thread on it.

An uncharacteristically jaded reaction Alan, if I might say so.

>Actually, I did, and found a few:
>http://tinyurl.com/ok3c9
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>The subject has been fairly thoroughly discussed in the
>past. Some interesting links there.

I also checked back over the last 15 months of asd before posting, but
found no mention of coffee and cholesterol, which surprised me
slightly as the paper I quoted was published in 1991. Perhaps I missed
something.

>And I'll still imbibe or eat all of the above - in
>moderation.

I agree. I'll continue drinking my 2 or 3 cups of decaf a day, as at
that level it has little or no effect. But someone who knocks back 10
cups a day of decaf, thinking it won't do any harm because it is decaf
but at the same time wondering why their LDL cholesterol is high,
might be interested in the information and might try cutting back,
just on the off chance...

>ANYTHING in excess is dangerous to your health. So is a
>deficiency of  many other things.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
>d&e, metformin 2x500mg

Signature

Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

Alan S - 22 Mar 2006 01:51 GMT
>>I'll see your study and raise it several others, if I bother
>>to google asd for our last thread on it.
>>
>An uncharacteristically jaded reaction Alan, if I might say so.

Hi Chris

Wasn't meant that way - sorry if that's how it came across.
Unfortunate phrasing.

Thanks for posting the links.

My intended point was that it's not coffee (decaf or
otherwise) - or any of the other things I mentioned - that
is the problem.

The problem is that eating or drinking anything at all
outside the range that our body sets as minima and maxima is
unwise. Studies that show an excess of "x" affects "y" are
meaningless to me unless they define the threshold at which
ingestion becomes excessive. Or the minimum needed for
health. At least this one seemed to define that at four cups
daily.

I took your comment "But someone who knocks back 10
cups a day of decaf, thinking it won't do any harm because
it is decaf but at the same time wondering why their LDL
cholesterol is high, might be interested in the information
and might try cutting back, just on the off chance..." to be
agreement with that.

It's no different to the people we all know who fasten onto
any half-understood concept, whether they heard it in the
press, or from their doc or just a friend.

People I have actually met, all diabetics:

Boiled bagel-eater: "It's OK - it won't affect my diabetes
because it's low-fat and sugar-free"

Lady offering fruit-cake slices after support meeting -
almost the same thing word for word. She used Splenda - but
it was full of fruit and made with flour:-) I took a tiny
piece to be polite and was over 8(145) in an hour.

Next-door neighbour, attacking a plate groaning under the
weight of mashed potato, AND fries, with a small piece of
battered fish - with a side bread roll. "The nurse told me I
should eat my carbs and fish". My wife was there at the time
- and she did say it - as she performed his once a week test
and got 12.4(223). But he denies he's diabetic.

How many times have you seen it happen? A study comes out
saying "don't eat this" or "eat that" and no-one reads the
limitations on the research?

Anyway - rant over - sorry if I sounded jaded:-)

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 2x500mg
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Nev. - 22 Mar 2006 03:16 GMT
> Lady offering fruit-cake slices after support meeting -
> almost the same thing word for word. She used Splenda - but
> it was full of fruit and made with flour:-) I took a tiny
> piece to be polite and was over 8(145) in an hour.

A couple of Xmases ago I was around at a diabetic's home
discussing videos when the host brought around some slices of
fruit cake, telling us that the cook had forgotten to put the sugar
in.  I was amazed at how sweet it tasted without any sugar added.
I think it would have been sweet enough to have satisfied my sweet
tooth, even in my pre-diabetic days.

Nev.
Chris Hogg - 22 Mar 2006 21:21 GMT
<snip>
>Anyway - rant over - sorry if I sounded jaded:-)

No problems!

Anyway, I've been searching with Google Scholar for more papers on
cholesterol and decaffeinated coffee, and the situation is far from
clear. Some papers claim no effect, others that even ordinary
caffeinated coffee increases LDL cholesterol, and so on.

So it has many of the characteristics of the other topics in your
'regularly occurring' list! LOL!

Signature

Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

Susan - 22 Mar 2006 22:23 GMT
> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> So it has many of the characteristics of the other topics in your
> 'regularly occurring' list! LOL!

IIRC, the only coffee known to cause increase in LDL is unfiltered
French press?

Susan
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.