Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2006
High Fat
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Dave LCHF - 17 Mar 2006 23:05 GMT (I'm posting this here, because this way of eating changed my type 2 HbA1c from 10.0 to 4.8.)
Those interested in Low Carb with High Fat are invited to join a Yahoo group of like minded folk.
Link: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/LowCarbHighFat/
This Yahoo group has about 170 members and has some good interactive support, if you introduce yourself.
The group is moderated, and Yahoo provides an option for getting only one email per day as a Digest of posts.
Check out our Links section.
The Links and even the recent posts can be viewed without signing up.
Dave
Ozgirl - 17 Mar 2006 23:14 GMT > (I'm posting this here, because this way of eating changed my type 2 HbA1c > from 10.0 to 4.8.) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > The Links and even the recent posts can be viewed without signing up. I'll giv eit a miss thanks. I do lower carb, moderate good fats and the RDA amount of protein. I probably wouldn't fit in.
Saxology - 18 Mar 2006 02:12 GMT > (I'm posting this here, because this way of eating changed my type 2 HbA1c > from 10.0 to 4.8.) <snip>
> Dave I am not opposed to anything that might work. I would like to know what your theory is that supports high fat. I accept the low carb part of the statement but thus far I would go for high protein over high fat. Thanks, Sax
Roger Zoul - 18 Mar 2006 02:39 GMT :: "Dave LCHF" <LowCarbHighFat-subscribe@yahoogroups.com> wrote in :: message news:poGSf.54765$H71.722@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] :: high fat. Thanks, :: Sax Most low carb diets are higher in fat than protein, caloriewise. Once you remove the carbs, while keeping the good veggies & LC fruits, then calories must come from somewhere. Since fat is more energy dense than protein, it's easier to get a greater % of calories from fat while still getting sufficient protein. Of course, that doesn't mean just red-meat animal fat, it can include nuts, flax, fish, etc. and oils.
Just - 18 Mar 2006 07:55 GMT >>> "Dave LCHF" <LowCarbHighFat-subscribe@yahoogroups.com> wrote in >>> message news:poGSf.54765$H71.722@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > remove the carbs, while keeping the good veggies & LC > fruits, Which are the fruits which are low carb?
> then calories must come from somewhere. Since fat is more > energy dense than protein, it's easier to get a greater % of calories > from fat while still getting sufficient protein. Of course, that > doesn't mean just red-meat animal fat, it can include nuts, flax, > fish, etc. and oils. Roger Zoul - 18 Mar 2006 12:13 GMT :: Roger Zoul wrote: ::: Saxology wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] :: :: Which are the fruits which are low carb? Berries are the ones I use. Strawberreis, blue & black, raspberries, etc. Good color. One can have most any fruit if you limit quantities so that you limit total carb intake to under your level, however.
::: then calories must come from somewhere. Since fat is more ::: energy dense than protein, it's easier to get a greater % of ::: calories from fat while still getting sufficient protein. Of ::: course, that doesn't mean just red-meat animal fat, it can include ::: nuts, flax, ::: fish, etc. and oils. Just - 18 Mar 2006 12:51 GMT >>> Which are the fruits which are low carb? > > Berries are the ones I use. Strawberreis, blue & black, raspberries, > etc. Good color. Do you know how many strawberries one can eat without a spike? I have been off fruits for quite a few months, I need to try something now.
> One can have most any fruit if you limit quantities > so that you limit total carb intake to under your level, however. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>>> nuts, flax, >>>> fish, etc. and oils. Roger Zoul - 18 Mar 2006 13:37 GMT :: Roger Zoul wrote: ::::: Which are the fruits which are low carb? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] :: without a spike? I have been off fruits for quite a :: few months, I need to try something now. I really don't think one can answer this question with any precision. It is a very YMMV kind of thing. What may spike you may not spike me, etc.
Now, I will tell you, that strawberries really aren't very carby. I've eaten as many as 22 oz of them at once in an attempt to "carb up" for long-duration exercise. Bottom line: it didn't work. I hit the wall hard.
Are you having any problems? Why do you need to try something? Are you low carbing?
::: One can have most any fruit if you limit quantities ::: so that you limit total carb intake to under your level, however. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] :::::: include nuts, flax, :::::: fish, etc. and oils. Just - 18 Mar 2006 14:34 GMT >>> Roger Zoul wrote: >>>>>> Which are the fruits which are low carb? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Are you having any problems? Why do you need to try something? Are you > low carbing? No problems. I am not low carbing, more like moderate carbing. I was off fruits because I thought all fruits were high carb & I am really not into portion control.
Roger Zoul - 18 Mar 2006 15:24 GMT :: Roger Zoul wrote: ::: Just wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] :: I was off fruits because I thought all fruits were high carb & I am :: really not into portion control. Ah, then berries are your friend. Good nutrients.
Anil - 18 Mar 2006 19:58 GMT You can also try citrus, specifically pink grape fruit. May be co-incidental and as Roger said YMMV but some how my BG's dropped a few point after I started eating a grape fruit first thing in the morning. I am sure there were other things that started having delayed effect but the coincidence was too much to ignore. Do test yourself though.
Anil T2
Alan S - 19 Mar 2006 03:09 GMT >You can also try citrus, specifically pink grape fruit. May be >co-incidental and as Roger said YMMV but some how my BG's dropped a few [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Anil >T2 Just be aware that, if you are on a statin and some other meds, grapefruit is specifically contra-indicated.
This is from a TGA report: http://www.tga.gov.au/adr/aadrb/aadr0212.htm#1 Australian Adverse Drug Reactions Bulletin Volume 21, Number 4, December 2002
Interactions with grapefruit juice
The serendipitous discovery in 1991 of the interaction of grapefruit juice with drugs occurred when grapefruit juice was used to mask the taste of ethanol in a study testing an interaction between the dihydropyridine calcium channel blocker felodipine and ethanol.1 It is now known that grapefruit juice can interact with a number of drugs, the basis of the interaction being the local inhibition of one of the cytochrome P450 enzymes (CYP3A4) and P-glycoprotein (Pgp) in enterocytes in the intestinal wall.2 It has been shown that grapefruit juice does not affect hepatic CYP3A4.
Interactions with grapefruit juice have been most frequently studied with the dihydropyridine calcium channel blockers (CCBs) including felodipine and nifedipine. Significant interactions have also been found for some of the HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors (statins), particularly simvastatin but possibly also atorvastatin; the benzodiazepines midazolam and triazolam; as well as cyclosporin, saquinavir, and cisapride. This is not an exhaustive list and there are a number of other drugs with a potential for interaction which have not been studied. A recent article in the Australian Prescriber contains a more comprehensive list.3 The two most important characteristics of the "target" drugs are metabolism by gut wall CYP3A4 and/or Pgp and associated low oral bioavailability.
ADRAC has received 14 reports describing possible interactions with grapefruit juice. Most have involved either the dihydropyridine CCBs (5) or statins (5). Three of the reports with CCBs have involved amlodipine, an interaction which is usually considered clinically insignificant. Grapefruit juice can inhibit the metabolism of target drugs and increase the amount of parent drug available for absorption, which may result in an increase in its pharmacological or toxic effects. For the CCBs, the reports usually describe hypotension and related symptoms, and for the statins, most reports describe myalgia and associated effects.
Prescribers should be aware that there are several groups of drugs that may interact with grapefruit juice and patients taking these drugs should be made aware of the possibility. It should also be noted that problems can arise from whole grapefruit (as in four of the ADRAC reports), and that the extent of the interaction can vary with different brands and strengths of juice. It is believed that with the exception of bitter Seville oranges, the interaction does not occur with other citrus fruits.
Options for discussion with patients include:
* Avoid grapefruit juice all together * Take medication with grapefruit juice every day (with dose adjustment if necessary) * Separate grapefruit juice and medication by a minimum of 2 hours
References
1. Bailey DG, Spence JD, Munoz C, Arnold JMO. Interaction of citrus juices with felodipine and nifedipine. Lancet 1991; 337: 268-269. 2. Bailey DG, Malcolm J, Arnold O, Spence JD. Grapefruit juice-drug interaction. Br J Clin Pharmacol 1998; 46: 101-110. 3. McNeece J. Grapefruit juice interactions. Aust Prescr 2002; 25: 37 (comprehensive table available at www.australianprescriber.com)
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg
 Signature Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Anil - 19 Mar 2006 17:38 GMT Thanks for that timely word of caution Alan. I wonder if grape fruit juice is same as eating the grape fruit in its original form. In any case if I were on satins I would not want to try experimenting!
In fact that is one of the reasons I am making a serious effort to go as much med free as possible. Its all about weighing the risk/benefit ratios based on our individual profile I guess. If the history is any guide, I am sure sooner or later I too may not have the luxury to stay on side line!
Anil T2/ Statin free so far...
Larry - 19 Mar 2006 18:07 GMT I've read..sorry don't have the reference that an occasional 1/2 grapefruit with breakfast is not a problem compared to drinking lots of grapefruit juice on a daily basis. Doctors make it easy by just telling patients "not to consume grapefruit" period. Particularly when they feel an older patient perhaps doesn't understand limits or instruction.
Larry
> Thanks for that timely word of caution Alan. I wonder if grape fruit > juice is same as eating the grape fruit in its original form. In any [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Anil > T2/ Statin free so far... Roger Zoul - 19 Mar 2006 18:10 GMT :: Thanks for that timely word of caution Alan. I wonder if grape fruit :: juice is same as eating the grape fruit in its original form. In any [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] :: Anil :: T2/ Statin free so far... IFAIK, I'll be statin free for ever.
David - 19 Mar 2006 18:14 GMT > :: Thanks for that timely word of caution Alan. I wonder if grape fruit > :: juice is same as eating the grape fruit in its original form. In any [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > IFAIK, I'll be statin free for ever. Hey, Rog, how's it going today?
Dave
Roger Zoul - 19 Mar 2006 22:43 GMT :: Roger Zoul wrote: :: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] ::: :: Hey, Rog, how's it going today? Great, and you? How's Mary? I haven't seen her around so I could not apologize directly (maybe I don't recognize her handle, tho).
W. Baker - 19 Mar 2006 18:48 GMT : Thanks for that timely word of caution Alan. I wonder if grape fruit : juice is same as eating the grape fruit in its original form. In any : case if I were on satins I would not want to try experimenting!
: In fact that is one of the reasons I am making a serious effort to go : as much med free as possible. Its all about weighing the risk/benefit : ratios based on our individual profile I guess. If the history is any : guide, I am sure sooner or later I too may not have the luxury to stay : on side line!
: Anil : T2/ Statin free so far... Grapefruit juice is , apparantly, worse, as you get so much concentrated what-ever-it-is tht causes the problem. I have been told that dispite taking a statin and metorming, an occasional grapefruit, not taken at the same time as the med is OK. This from both my endo and my pharmacist. Wendy
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