Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2006
higher blood sugar when I wake up
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systemswamper - 17 Mar 2006 21:00 GMT Hi,
Is there a reason why I would have a level higher when I wake up than before going to be bed ? The level is 0.5 to 1 mmmol per litre higher. Thanks.
Grandpa Chuck - 17 Mar 2006 21:10 GMT >Hi, > >Is there a reason why I would have a level higher when I wake up than >before going to be bed ? The level is 0.5 to 1 mmmol per litre higher. > Thanks. It is called "dawn phenomenon" or a liver dump. It's pretty common among we T2s.
What do you eat for your bedtime snack?
 Signature Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~
The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Mar. 15, 2006 is 2,314. Americans wounded = 16,653 as of 02/07/2006 United Kingdom = 103 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths are probably in excess of 100,000.
Today, March 17, 2006 It has been 1051 days since Bush declared, "Mission Accomplished in Iraq."
Craig - 17 Mar 2006 21:50 GMT Hi SS, You'll learn a lot from this group. I have just recently delurked, so I'll use this post to say hi to everyone.I dealt with this problem for ages, eating less and less in the evening which made it even higher in the morning.My numbers would continue to get a whole lot higher the longer I didn't eat.Even eating some protein like cheese or eggs didn't help. I actually found, as have some others here, that a small amount of carbs in the morning stopped it from doing this. Grandpa Chuck's questioning about an evening snack may be the solution to your problem. It helped although not entirely corrected mine. You'll have to experiment a little and find out how it affects you. FWIW, my spikes were a lot worse than 0.5 to 1mmol. Found this article which may be of interest. http://tinyurl.com/b6qcr
Craig Type 2 NSW Australia
> Hi, > > Is there a reason why I would have a level higher when I wake up than > before going to be bed ? The level is 0.5 to 1 mmmol per litre higher. > Thanks. Cheri - 17 Mar 2006 22:03 GMT Hi Craig, welcome to the group. I'll look forward to your posts.
-- Cheri
Craig wrote in message <441b211c$0$18522$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>...
>Hi SS, >You'll learn a lot from this group. I have just recently delurked, so I'll >use this post to say hi to everyone.I dealt with this problem for ages, Craig - 18 Mar 2006 01:02 GMT Thanks Cheri, The welcome is much appreciated. Craig Type 2 NSW, Australia
> Hi Craig, welcome to the group. I'll look forward to your posts. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'll >>use this post to say hi to everyone.I dealt with this problem for ages, Grandpa Chuck - 18 Mar 2006 00:39 GMT Welcome to our family Craig.
I had to play around with bedtime snacks until I found one that works well for me. So often in here we see YMMV. This is one of them. I tried high protein snacks and they just didn't work well for me. They do for some others. I finally settled on about 7 or 8 ounces of hot chocolate made with Nestles Quick and a small raisin/cinnamon roll. There are some fairly fast acting carbs in there and some that are slower. I think the cinnamon helps too. The hot chocolate helps to make me sleepy along with a couple of my bedtime meds. That way my stomach isn't rumbling and rolling around trying to digest what I just had. And by the way, when I say bedtime snack that is exactly what I mean. After we have it we rinse out the cups, do our bedtime bathroom routine and hit the bed within five to ten minutes.
>Hi SS, >You'll learn a lot from this group. I have just recently delurked, so I'll [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> before going to be bed ? The level is 0.5 to 1 mmmol per litre higher. >> Thanks.
 Signature Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~
The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Mar. 15, 2006 is 2,314. Americans wounded = 16,653 as of 02/07/2006 United Kingdom = 103 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths are probably in excess of 100,000.
Today, March 17, 2006 It has been 1051 days since Bush declared, "Mission Accomplished in Iraq."
Craig - 18 Mar 2006 01:18 GMT Hi Grandpa Chuck, Thank you also for the welcome. I must admit that your bedtime snack sounds more apetising than mine! I usually settle for a handful of mixed nuts and perhaps a cup of coffee or green tea depending on the mood.Looking forward to chatting with everyone here. Craig Type 2 NSW, Australia
> Welcome to our family Craig. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > mean. After we have it we rinse out the cups, do our bedtime bathroom > routine and hit the bed within five to ten minutes. Alan S - 18 Mar 2006 01:43 GMT >Hi SS, >You'll learn a lot from this group. I have just recently delurked, so I'll [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >NSW >Australia Hi Craig
Welcome. Good to see you coming out of lurkdom:-)
What part of Nsw are you from? I'm in Pottsville, up past Byron Bay.
Just one word of advice - if that email address is real, it would be wise to "mung" it if you're going to post regularly - unmunged addresses tend to be harvested for spam.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg
 Signature Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Chief - 18 Mar 2006 01:58 GMT >>Hi SS, >>You'll learn a lot from this group. I have just recently delurked, so [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. > d&e, metformin 2x500mg Now there is a good word I haven't heard before 'munged'. Is that like mucked up?
Bit Twister - 18 Mar 2006 02:35 GMT > Now there is a good word I haven't heard before 'munged'. Is that like > mucked up? Not quite, http://www.faqs.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq/munging-address/
Chief - 18 Mar 2006 03:04 GMT >> Now there is a good word I haven't heard before 'munged'. Is that like >> mucked up? > > Not quite, > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq/munging-address/ Thanks
Craig - 18 Mar 2006 10:25 GMT Hi Alan, Thanks for the welcome! I'm on the Central Coast pretty close to The Entrance. Thanks for the advice on the email addy. That address is real;don't know why but I've managed to avoid almost all spam so far. My ISP has a program for it, as does my security program, which may be why I have been lucky to date. Craig Type 2 NSW, Australia
> Hi Craig > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. > d&e, metformin 2x500mg Jennifer - 17 Mar 2006 22:30 GMT There is a very good reason.
It's called "The Dawn Phenom".
Here's some info:
During the night while you're asleep and can't be eating, the body still needs some energy to keep it going. So, glucose, which has been stored in the liver as "glycogen" is released into the blood. In preparation for waking, the body sends out the biggest batch of glycogen in the last few hours before waking... usually between 3a - 8a. Also in these wee hours of the morning, the body puts out other hormones from the adrenal and pituitary glands... It's all part of the normal cycle for these hormones. They signal to the body that a new day is starting. They rev you up and get you ready to awaken. BUT... they also have an added effect on the liver that makes it less sensitive to insulin. In non diabetics, this doesn't pose any problem... But in us diabetics, the liver dumping glucose, coupled with the insulin dampening hormones mean we awaken with high BG.
Now. What can be done?
When I was first diagnosed 6/99 ... I worked soooo hard to gain control of my BG. And I did pretty damn good. The only thing I couldn't get under control were my morning numbers (FBG; Fasting Blood Glucose).
I read all I could on the subject. (That's how I could come up with the lengthy response above)... but no answers. I tried every suggestion that anyone came up with. High carb snacks before bed. Low carb snacks before bed. Not eating anything after 6p. A glass of wine at 10p (that one I liked)... etc. etc. etc.
Nothing changed it. No matter what I did, my FBG numbers were always the highest of the day. My other numbers were just where I wanted them... (I tested often... 1 hour after each meal and 2hrs after each meal, morning and bedtime... 5 - 8x a day). And my A1cs were and continue to be in the normal range. Because of that, I chose not to lose any sleep over those pesky FBGs.
So, in my opinion, keep trying, but work much harder on your Post Prandial readings (Post Prandial or PP means "after meals"). There have been studies that say they are the most indicative of future problems... not the FBG.
Hang in. It's all a learning process. The best thing you can do is TEST TEST TEST.
Jennifer
> Hi, > > Is there a reason why I would have a level higher when I wake up than > before going to be bed ? The level is 0.5 to 1 mmmol per litre higher. > Thanks. Nirvana - 18 Mar 2006 10:24 GMT Jennifer
I have the same problem except my highest numbers seem to be after breakfast. Since I am statrting the day high already, almost no matter what i eat for breakfast sent me to the 180 range. I try to eat about 15 carbs for breakfast usually an egg or two with 1 piece of whole grain toast or low sugar yogurt, or 1/2 cuo all bran.
What do you eat for breakfast?
~Nirvana~ Metformin - 500mg (4X a day) Glyburide - 2.5mg (2x a day) Starlix - 20mg (sometimes with dinner) Starlix does not seem to work at breakfast or lunch.
> There is a very good reason. > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > before going to be bed ? The level is 0.5 to 1 mmmol per litre higher. > > Thanks. Alan S - 18 Mar 2006 11:56 GMT >Jennifer > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >What do you eat for breakfast? Not Jennifer
Cut the 15 carbs. Eat almost anything else.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg
 Signature Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Nirvana - 18 Mar 2006 16:14 GMT Hi Alan
I tried that also. No carbs and my bg still goes up
Thanks
~Nirvana~ Metformin - 500mg (4X a day) Glyburide - 2.5mg (2x a day) Starlix - 20mg (sometimes with dinner) Starlix does not seem to work at breakfast or lunch.
> >Jennifer > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -- > Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Richard Evans - 18 Mar 2006 18:35 GMT >Hi Alan > >I tried that also. No carbs and my bg still goes up I'm in the same boat. Once I'm up, BGs begin to rise, even with no food at all.
Grandpa Chuck - 18 Mar 2006 19:04 GMT >>Hi Alan >> >>I tried that also. No carbs and my bg still goes up > >I'm in the same boat. Once I'm up, BGs begin to rise, even with no >food at all. Chances are pretty good they will rise even higher if you do not eat anything. It is very important to break your fast with something. For me it is just a piece of raisin/cinnamon toast with peanut butter.
 Signature Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~
The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Mar. 16, 2006 is 2,317. Americans wounded = 16,653 as of 02/07/2006 United Kingdom = 103 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths are probably in excess of 100,000.
Today, March 18, 2006 It has been 1052 days since Bush declared, "Mission Accomplished in Iraq."
Alan S - 19 Mar 2006 02:40 GMT >Hi Alan > >I tried that also. No carbs and my bg still goes up > >Thanks What did you eat when you had no carbs? I wasn't suggesting fasting.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg
 Signature Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Nirvana - 19 Mar 2006 14:41 GMT Hey Alan
I usually have an egg or two and some ham. The BG still goes up as if I had some carbs.
~N~
> >Hi Alan > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > -- > Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. Loretta Eisenberg - 19 Mar 2006 21:50 GMT mmmm , no response from original poster. okay, I will stop doing this
-- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.
Ozgirl - 19 Mar 2006 23:11 GMT > mmmm , no response from original poster. okay, I will stop doing this That's no surprise considering it is the female troll who is making a total idiot of herself in the group of late.
Ozgirl - 19 Mar 2006 23:08 GMT > Hey Alan > > I usually have an egg or two and some ham. The BG still goes up as if > I had some carbs. What sort of ham? A lot of ham is cured with honey.
Mopar Girl - 18 Mar 2006 16:47 GMT > Jennifer > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Starlix - 20mg (sometimes with dinner) Starlix does not seem to work at > breakfast or lunch. I have been the same way. High in the morning and no matter what I eat it is alot higher after breakfast. Breakfast is 2 eggs scrambled sometimes with one piece of toast (back on the Sara Lee Delightful even though I can't stand the smell) and sometimes without it, also a few pieces of bacon or sausage. Results is all the same no matter what I eat.
Suzi A1c 6.4 T2 DX 10/2002 Glucophage 2 x 1000mg Lipitor 20mg (3 days a week), Enalapril 20mg 30 minutes walks 7 days a week
Jennifer - 18 Mar 2006 17:57 GMT I'll eat a number of things.
Low carb yogurt with some chopped almonds.
Wasa crisps with cream cheese and smoked salmon
Scrambled eggs with any veggies that look good.
When do you take your Meds Nirvana? Try taking the Glyburide 10 minutes before breakfast.
Jennifer
> Jennifer > [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] >>>before going to be bed ? The level is 0.5 to 1 mmmol per litre higher. >>> Thanks. Nirvana - 18 Mar 2006 19:07 GMT Jennifer
I ususally take them a few minutes before meals or with meals. I think I am just tooo IR in the morning for the Glyburide or Starlix to work. At lunch I can eat a few more carbs but not many. At about 2:00 pm everything starts to work and I can have many more carbs. for dinner. If it wasn't for mornings I would be in good shape.
Would it help if I exercized in the morning instead of the evening I usaully go for an hour walk about 3X a week. This will pick up now that it is getting warmer here in Illinois.
~Nirvana~ Metformin - 500mg (4X a day) Glyburide - 2.5mg (2x a day) Starlix - 20mg (sometimes with dinner) Starlix does not seem to work at breakfast or lunch.
> I'll eat a number of things. > [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > >>>before going to be bed ? The level is 0.5 to 1 mmmol per litre higher. > >>> Thanks. Jennifer - 18 Mar 2006 21:39 GMT > Jennifer > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > ~Nirvana~ Not a bad idea to try exercising in the morning.
That's the best way to figure out how your body and this disease coexist... experiment!
Let us know if this makes a difference.
Jennifer
bj - 19 Mar 2006 03:55 GMT >> Would it help if I exercized in the morning instead of the evening I >> usaully [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Jennifer However, if you try it and absolutely hate it, whether it works or not -- it's better to exercise at an "imperfect" time when you actually will exercise than to not-exercise at the "perfect" time.
And this is something you have to establish as a habit for the long haul -- exercising, not necessarily always the same time, same routine, same vigor -- just on a regular basis as part of your lifestyle. So it's important not to set yourself up for failure by trying to stick to something you don't like, at least until you try everything else you can to find something you do like at least tolerably well. bj
Julie Bove - 18 Mar 2006 00:11 GMT > Hi, > > Is there a reason why I would have a level higher when I wake up than > before going to be bed ? The level is 0.5 to 1 mmmol per litre higher. > Thanks. Dawn phenomenon.
 Signature See my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm
Nutella - 18 Mar 2006 13:47 GMT >Hi, > >Is there a reason why I would have a level higher when I wake up than >before going to be bed ? The level is 0.5 to 1 mmmol per litre higher. > Thanks. Hi everyone! Such a wonderful website. It's my first post here.
I just had one more comment on high morning values. While it definitely may mean it's the dawn phenomenon , it may also reflect suboptimal basal control of blood glucose ( for example if someone is on insulin he/she may need more lantus/long acting insulin).
So before we attribute it to the dawn phenomenon and overeat at night we need to make sure the basal control is adequate.
Just my 2 cents :)
Alan S - 18 Mar 2006 14:52 GMT >>Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Just my 2 cents :) Hi Nutella
Welcome to the group.
Just for info, it's not a wonderful web-site - it's a wonderful usenet newsgroup which an increasing number of web-sites feed off - without permission and often without attribution as far as I can tell. I'm not sure who could give permission - but it would certainly be nicer if they asked. Just my pet peeve.
http://www.MedKB.com is one of the parasitic web-sites that does that. Like all of the other posters here on alt.support.diabetes I'm still waiting for my royalty cheques from the various sponsors on MedKB. Particularly as our charter forbids commercial posts.
The actual associated web-site is here: http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/Charter.htm
But you're right - there are some knowledgeable people here - come on in:-)
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg
 Signature Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Just - 18 Mar 2006 15:13 GMT > Hi Nutella > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > give permission - but it would certainly be nicer if they > asked. Huh!! What about google, should they also ask for permission when they go off their beta? What about the ISP who makes money selling the internet connection & the newserver connection through which people post & read here? Should they also ask for permission?
If you don't want people to use this, then don't post here. Create a private mailing list & mail there.
It's like sticking a paper full of information on a wall & saying that taxi drivers who drive people to the wall should first ask for permission.
> Just my pet peeve. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. > d&e, metformin 2x500mg Larry - 18 Mar 2006 18:02 GMT Everybody says the Dawn Effect which is correct. But not to forget when ones FBG level gradually goes up over a period of years...then one needs to rationalize a progression of DM as the cause and is very important to know.
Larry
> > Hi Nutella > > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. > > d&e, metformin 2x500mg Alan S - 19 Mar 2006 02:59 GMT >> Just for info, it's not a wonderful web-site - it's a >> wonderful usenet newsgroup which an increasing number of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >What about google, should they also ask for permission >when they go off their beta? Why not?
>What about the ISP who makes money selling the internet >connection & the newserver connection through which >people post & read here? Should they also ask for >permission? Nope. Totally different situation.
>If you don't want people to use this, then don't post here. >Create a private mailing list & mail there. Happy here. Nothing more dangerous than being part of a medical support group where no-one tells you when you're wrong. I've participated, briefly, in a couple of those on Yahoo.
>It's like sticking a paper full of information on a wall >& saying that taxi drivers who drive people to the >wall should first ask for permission. Nope. It's like the taxi driver copying what's on the wall and selling it to others without crediting the source.
I did say it was a pet peeve - so I don't have to be totally rational. I know it's like Knut telling the tide to roll back:-)
It's just a courtesy thing to me. I didn't start this marvellous newsgroup; I'm very grateful to those pioneers who did. They saved my life, which is why I'm still here posting. Some still post here.
But, over the past four years, every so often, I do a quick google search on my sig. I did it first just for fun - and got a shock when I found myself appearing on a multitude of web-sites I had never heard of. Try it yourself - it's educational.
I know that nothing written here is private. I know we don't own a copyright on it. But, when you find that what you are saying is appearing on over fifty different web-sites, who surround your words with advertisements, and require registration from those using their web-site to participate in our newsgroup, I felt it would be only courteous for them to have informed the group when they started doing so. Some of them moderate our unmoderated group, some add their own threads without noting they aren't a.s.d. or m.h.d. threads, very few actually even mention that their "forum" is actually the alt.support.diabetes or misc.health.diabetes newsgroup.
I am fully aware, of course, that nothing I say will change anything at all.
One of the benefits of belonging to an unmoderated newsgroup is that I can have an irrational bleat about it occasionally and feel better. And you can argue with me and do the same:-)
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg
 Signature Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Just - 19 Mar 2006 07:55 GMT >>> Just for info, it's not a wonderful web-site - it's a >>> wonderful usenet newsgroup which an increasing number of [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> > Nope. Totally different situation. google groups does the same thing - its allows people a way to post here & read here. Likewise for MedKB. Many people may not be savvy enough to setup a news account & access it through OE, Agent, pine etc. Many ISP's do not provide news accounts, especially the cheapo ones. Many people cannot afford to pay for a separate news account. Google groups allows all these people easy access to newsgroups. MedKB makes even easier for them. It organizes & gives a easy interface to read & post for the particular diseases they are interested in. Yes, they may be making money - but you obviously can't expect people to provide a service without charging money.
If we adopt your philosophy, there wouldn't even be search engines or any world wide web.
>> If you don't want people to use this, then don't post here. >> Create a private mailing list & mail there. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > wrong. I've participated, briefly, in a couple of those on > Yahoo. So you are in here because of the accessibility & public nature of these forums. MedKB, Google Groups etc contribute towards keeping these forums accessible & public.
>> It's like sticking a paper full of information on a wall >> & saying that taxi drivers who drive people to the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > web-sites I had never heard of. Try it yourself - it's > educational. I have been on usenet since 1999, using different nicks, mostly on sports newsgroups & technical ones. I know where I appear. All these websites you talk about are providing indexing services, that's all & getting some adverstising revenue off it. The relationship isn't a parasitic one but a symbiotic one.
> I know that nothing written here is private. I know we don't > own a copyright on it. Actually, that's not 100% true. Check this. http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
> But, when you find that what you are > saying is appearing on over fifty different web-sites, who > surround your words with advertisements, and require > registration from those using their web-site to participate > in our newsgroup, I felt it would be only courteous for them > to have informed the group when they started doing so. Consider you going & giving a speech in a public park on some important important or controversial. Lets say tons of people stop to listen. Let's say all the local television channels pick it up & broadcast it & surround it with advertisements. How different is it?
> Some > of them moderate our unmoderated group, some add their own > threads without noting they aren't a.s.d. or m.h.d. threads, What do you mean "add their own threads" & "they aren't asd or mhd threads"?
> very few actually even mention that their "forum" is > actually the alt.support.diabetes or misc.health.diabetes > newsgroup. That's called dumbing it down for the user. Many people aren't savvy enough to understand what is a newsgroup. Some people may get put away by the all these dots in the names, where they expect spaces. Usenet & Internet naming conventions were done by geeks for geeks. These websites may be presenting it in a manner which non-geeks are more used to.
> I am fully aware, of course, that nothing I say will change > anything at all. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and feel better. And you can argue with me and do the > same:-) Alan S - 19 Mar 2006 08:55 GMT >> One of the benefits of belonging to an unmoderated newsgroup >> is that I can have an irrational bleat about it occasionally >> and feel better. And you can argue with me and do the >> same:-) Yep - do we both feel better now?
I'll continue to be annoyed at their discourtesy - and you can continue to be annoyed at my futile annoyance:-)
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg
 Signature Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
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