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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2006

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Joslin on Diet

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Alan S - 15 Mar 2006 23:45 GMT
Hi All

This has probably been posted before - I've forgotten.

For those looking for a different (and, IMO, better) view on
diet by a major diabetes authority, this was published by
Joslin in Time magazine last November. I didn't read the
magazine but it's available on Joslin's web-site.  There is
an unfortunate tendency to presume obesity with type 2, but
it is still a very different philosophy to the ADA approach.
As a side-note, I have to give the second author my bravery
award for not changing his name in today's USA:

http://joslin.org/managing_your_diabetes_3231.asp

"Diet and Diabetes: A Personalized Approach

By James Rosenzweig, M.D., Director, Joslin Disease
Management;
Osama Hamdy, M.D., Ph.D., Director, Joslin Obesity  Clinical
Program;
Amy Campbell, M.S., R.D., C.D.E., Joslin Education Program
Manager

Despite the new fad diets published and diet aids marketed
each year, Americans’ waistlines and the epidemic of obesity
and diabetes continue to expand. With current scientific
knowledge and clinical experience, however, health care
providers and industry influencers can make a difference.

In 2005 for the first time in 13 years, the United States
Department of Agriculture (USDA) updated the Food Guide
Pyramid. The USDA touts the latest version as no longer a
“one size fits all” approach, but rather an “individualized
approach to improving diet and lifestyle.” Though this
long-awaited update to the nation’s only federal nutrition
guidelines offers healthier food choices for healthy
Americans, for the 17 million Americans with type 2 diabetes
and the 41 million more who are at high risk for developing
the disease, these guidelines are not enough.
One Size Fits Some

Joslin’s approach to diabetes management has always been to
focus on the individual, and not dictate a “one size fits
all” strategy. At a time when the diet advice waters are
muddied with thousands claiming the answer to the battle of
the bulge, Joslin offers evidence-based clinical nutrition
guidelines for overweight and obese people with type 2
diabetes, prediabetes or at high risk for developing type 2
diabetes. The ultimate goal is to help these populations
improve cardiovascular health, reduce body fat and increase
sensitivity to insulin. This decreases their risk for
devastating diabetes complications, including kidney
disease, heart disease and amputations.
The Basics

The biggest difference between the USDA’s guidelines and
Joslin’s is the recommendation of fewer carbohydrates and
more protein in the diet, as recent studies have shown that
this helps people eat less and lose weight.

The following are Joslin’s guideline essentials (shown as
approximate percents of daily calories):

Carbohydrate: 40 percent from carbohydrates, including at
least 20-35 grams of fiber. Best carbohydrate/high-fiber
sources: fresh vegetables, fruits, beans and whole-grain
foods. Eat less of these carbs: pasta, white bread, white
potatoes and sugary cereals.

Protein: 20-30 percent from protein (unless you have kidney
disease). Best protein sources: fish, skinless chicken or
turkey, nonfat or low-fat dairy products, tofu and legumes
(beans and peas).

Fat: 30-35 percent from fat (mostly mono- and
polyunsaturated fats). Best fat sources: olive oil, canola
oil, nuts, seeds and fatty fish like salmon.
Lifestyle Change

With 80 percent of people with type 2 diabetes overweight,
and weight loss directly related to improved diabetes
control, these guidelines are meant to help people with
diabetes or at risk for the disease lose weight and keep it
off. To initiate and maintain weight loss, Joslin recommends
losing just one pound every one to two weeks by reducing
daily calories by 250 to 500 calories.

An essential component of any healthy lifestyle is physical
activity.Joslin encourages a target of 60–90 minutes of
modest-intensity physical activity (including
cardiovascular, stretching and strength training) most days
of the week, with a minimum of 150–175 minutes per week.

Joslin’s bottom line: There is no fad diet that will help
people with type 2 diabetes lose weight and reduce their
risk for serious complications—just a lifestyle change.

This article appeared in the Special Diabetes Insert of the
November 21, 2005 issue of TIME Magazine."

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 2x500mg
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Kurt - 16 Mar 2006 00:32 GMT
> Hi All
>
[quoted text clipped - 96 lines]
> This article appeared in the Special Diabetes Insert of the
> November 21, 2005 issue of TIME Magazine."

I think Joslin is a great site and one I refer to often because I
think, like the ADA, they offer realistic advice to people with
diabetes.  However, they came under attack awhile ago here when Sally
posted what they said about "a carb is a carb"

http://www.joslin.org/managing_your_diabetes_665.asp

"We now know that in general, a sugar-containing food like a piece of
angel food cake may have 30 grams of carbohydrate in it, but that piece

of cake will have the same effect on your blood glucose as 2/3 cup of
rice or one cup of applesauce, both of which have 30 grams of
carbohydrate in them," says Chalmers. "So, if this man's meal plan that

he's developed with a dietitian states that he can eat 60 grams of
carbohydrate at a meal, it's his choice where he 'spends' those 60
grams. One time he may have 2/3 cup of rice and one cup of applesauce,
because that's what he feels like eating. Another time he may decide to

eat a cup of applesauce, a cup of milk (12 grams of carbohydrate) skip
the rice, and have the small piece of angel food cake for dessert."

Best,
Kurt
Loretta Eisenberg - 16 Mar 2006 00:44 GMT
Alan, thanks for sharing this with us.  I found it most interesting.
Loretta
now if I could only remember what I read lol

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
morris - 16 Mar 2006 08:32 GMT
Joslin seems to have changed their website, and so the page with  these
nutritional recommendations seems to be temportarily (I hope)
unavailable.  A description, found by searching their site for
"nutrition guidelines",  reads  as follows: "Joslin Diabetes Center
Announces New Nutrition Guidelines for People with Type 2 Diabetes or
Pre-Diabetes who are Overweight or ObeseBOSTON - April 6, 2005."
It's the only item on the page of search results that does not have a
clickable link. From previolus looks a thtis, I know that it is not
their general nutrition recommendations, but is specifically for those
who are obese or overweight,  and recommends no more than a 25%
reduction from previous caloric intake and no less than 130 grams of
carbs per day.
Jenny - 16 Mar 2006 16:25 GMT
 but is specifically for those
> who are obese or overweight,  and recommends no more than a 25%
> reduction from previous caloric intake and no less than 130 grams of
> carbs per day.

130 grams of carbs a day is more than I often used to eat when I wasn't
diabetic and was eating all those "healthy whole grains". Will the
dietitian community ever realize that the carbohydrate recommendation
for a 6' 2 350 lb man is not the same as the recommendation for a 5'2
125 lb woman?

I know several small women who are overweight at 125 lbs. 130 grams
would be almost 1/2 of their daily caloric intake on a reducing diet, to
say nothing of the havoc they'd wreak on their blood sugar.

OTOH, for that 350 lb man, that carb count might be 1/5 of his daily
intake on a reducing diet that is 1/2 of what he used to eat and with
his additional body weight he might be able to absorb that extra
carbohydrate without spiking over 200 at every meal.

SIZE MATTERS. And not only the way the spammers would suggest. <G>

--Jenny

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes  Diabetes Info

http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood
Sugar Under Control
morris - 16 Mar 2006 21:09 GMT
Makes sense to me. I wasn't endorsing that Joslin guideline, merely
filling in some of the details they give, since they seem temporarily
unavailable.

Size does matter, not just in calories or grams of bcrbs, but also as
you noted in another thread, with blood glucose and glycemic load.  The
same  glucose stuck into more blood  means less of a spike than if put
into less blood.  Kind of like alcohol. The advice is often 1 drink for
a woman, 2 for men--this is based on the usual relationships of a small
woman and a larger man, which is of course oversimplified, but based on
the amount of blood the alcohol is mixed with. Which is why determining
dunkenness is a matter of percentage of alcohol in the blood, not the
amount you have had to drink.  Blood glucose is mearured the same way.
Quentin Grady - 17 Mar 2006 10:55 GMT
This post not CC'd by email
On 16 Mar 2006 12:09:01 -0800, "morris" <morrisolder@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>Kind of like alcohol. The advice is often 1 drink for
>a woman, 2 for men--this is based on the usual relationships of a small
>woman and a larger man, which is of course oversimplified, but based on
>the amount of blood the alcohol is mixed with.

G'day G'day Morris,

A second factor is that women usually have a higher percentage body
fat content. The alcohol will dissolve only in the aqueous proportion
of the body and this partition is smaller in women.

Best wishes,
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Alan S - 17 Mar 2006 10:18 GMT
>Joslin seems to have changed their website, and so the page with  these
>nutritional recommendations seems to be temportarily (I hope)
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>reduction from previous caloric intake and no less than 130 grams of
>carbs per day.

I just tried it again:
http://joslin.org/managing_your_diabetes_3231.asp

It worked fine for me.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 2x500mg
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Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

bj - 17 Mar 2006 23:51 GMT
>>Joslin seems to have changed their website, and so the page with  these
>>nutritional recommendations seems to be temportarily (I hope)
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> It worked fine for me.

Me too.

I notice, though, that they recommend "60-90 minutes of modest-intensity
physical activity" most days of the week, but a minimum of only 150-175
minutes. Maybe they're afraid to do the math up front (call it 360-540 mins,
with 1 day of rest) 'cause it might scare people?
bj
morris - 18 Mar 2006 03:18 GMT
Funny. I just rtied it again. Still does not work. I use Moazilla, so I
tired IE. Doesn;t work there either.  In both case the site works, but
t=witht he search, that study is listed without a link.
morris - 18 Mar 2006 03:19 GMT
Funny. I just tried it again. Still does not work. I use Mozilla, so I
tried IE. Doesn't work there either.  In both case the site works, but
with the search, that study is listed without a link.
Alan S - 18 Mar 2006 04:29 GMT
>Funny. I just tried it again. Still does not work. I use Mozilla, so I
>tried IE. Doesn't work there either.  In both case the site works, but
>with the search, that study is listed without a link.

A few alternative ideas:

Home page:

http://joslin.org/

Diet for obese type 2 Guidelines:

http://joslin.org/755_2541.asp

General guidelines:

http://joslin.org/managing_your_diabetes_joslin_clinical_guidelines.asp
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 2x500mg
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

morris - 18 Mar 2006 08:35 GMT
Quentin Grady - 17 Mar 2006 08:01 GMT
This post not CC'd by email
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:45:48 +1100, Alan S
<loralweightandcarbs@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

>The following are Joslin’s guideline essentials (shown as
>approximate percents of daily calories):
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>oil, nuts, seeds and fatty fish like salmon.
>Lifestyle Change

G'day G'day Alan,

It is doubtful that many people will realise just how important are
these guidelines from Joslin.  About five years ago the sacrosanct
macronutrient ratio associated with the ADA and some other US
organisations of

Carbohydrate  55% minimum
Fat           30% maximum
Protein       15%

began to fade from view. They might well be figures to aim at for
people of normal weight.  The reality of weightloss as Joslin now
acknowledges is that maintenance levels (15%) protein don't work.
Twenty percent seems to be the threshold for success.  Some push it as
far as 40% by calories.  Notice that Joslin is admitting some people
have healthy kidneys and one shouldn't let the problems associated
with those who have kidney disease stand in the way of adopting a
strategy that encourages weightloss if one doesn't have kidney
disease.  Put simply, if you are newbie faced with where to start, be
cautious, get the kidney and liver function tests done THEN either see
a registered nutritionist who understands the Joslin guidelines or
adopt their guideline essentials and start following the standard
procedure of testing, testing, testing.

Notice that fibre has been pushed up from the typical US figure of
about 10 grams per day to 20 to 35 grams per day.  It helps with
satiety.  So of course does the protein.  

Notice how they are advocating a mix of animal and vegetable protein.
This seems to be the wisest strategy when pushing protein beyond the
20% mark.  IMHO the optimal strategy is to have three days with lean
meat, one with fish, one with chickpeas, one with lentils, and one
seafood such as prawns, mussels and edible seaweed etc.

You might like to think of having two vegan nights, one Thai night,
one Moroccan night, and three more traditional nights.

>With 80 percent of people with type 2 diabetes overweight,
>and weight loss directly related to improved diabetes
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>losing just one pound every one to two weeks by reducing
>daily calories by 250 to 500 calories.

Best wishes and thanks.  

I wonder if people really recognise the supreme gift Joslin has given
them by moving with the mainstream scientific position on diets for
overweight and obese people instead of indulging in obfuscation which
must be tempting in the demise of the low fat fad.  

Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

bj - 17 Mar 2006 18:46 GMT
>   Notice that Joslin is admitting some people
> have healthy kidneys and one shouldn't let the problems associated
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> adopt their guideline essentials and start following the standard
> procedure of testing, testing, testing.

And keep on having those liver & kidney tests from time to time. Things can
change (even if you don't have diabetes &/or aren't doing any special diet,
etc.).
bj
 
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