Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2006
Joslin on Diet
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Alan S - 15 Mar 2006 23:45 GMT Hi All
This has probably been posted before - I've forgotten.
For those looking for a different (and, IMO, better) view on diet by a major diabetes authority, this was published by Joslin in Time magazine last November. I didn't read the magazine but it's available on Joslin's web-site. There is an unfortunate tendency to presume obesity with type 2, but it is still a very different philosophy to the ADA approach. As a side-note, I have to give the second author my bravery award for not changing his name in today's USA:
http://joslin.org/managing_your_diabetes_3231.asp
"Diet and Diabetes: A Personalized Approach
By James Rosenzweig, M.D., Director, Joslin Disease Management; Osama Hamdy, M.D., Ph.D., Director, Joslin Obesity Clinical Program; Amy Campbell, M.S., R.D., C.D.E., Joslin Education Program Manager
Despite the new fad diets published and diet aids marketed each year, Americans waistlines and the epidemic of obesity and diabetes continue to expand. With current scientific knowledge and clinical experience, however, health care providers and industry influencers can make a difference.
In 2005 for the first time in 13 years, the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) updated the Food Guide Pyramid. The USDA touts the latest version as no longer a one size fits all approach, but rather an individualized approach to improving diet and lifestyle. Though this long-awaited update to the nations only federal nutrition guidelines offers healthier food choices for healthy Americans, for the 17 million Americans with type 2 diabetes and the 41 million more who are at high risk for developing the disease, these guidelines are not enough. One Size Fits Some
Joslins approach to diabetes management has always been to focus on the individual, and not dictate a one size fits all strategy. At a time when the diet advice waters are muddied with thousands claiming the answer to the battle of the bulge, Joslin offers evidence-based clinical nutrition guidelines for overweight and obese people with type 2 diabetes, prediabetes or at high risk for developing type 2 diabetes. The ultimate goal is to help these populations improve cardiovascular health, reduce body fat and increase sensitivity to insulin. This decreases their risk for devastating diabetes complications, including kidney disease, heart disease and amputations. The Basics
The biggest difference between the USDAs guidelines and Joslins is the recommendation of fewer carbohydrates and more protein in the diet, as recent studies have shown that this helps people eat less and lose weight.
The following are Joslins guideline essentials (shown as approximate percents of daily calories):
Carbohydrate: 40 percent from carbohydrates, including at least 20-35 grams of fiber. Best carbohydrate/high-fiber sources: fresh vegetables, fruits, beans and whole-grain foods. Eat less of these carbs: pasta, white bread, white potatoes and sugary cereals.
Protein: 20-30 percent from protein (unless you have kidney disease). Best protein sources: fish, skinless chicken or turkey, nonfat or low-fat dairy products, tofu and legumes (beans and peas).
Fat: 30-35 percent from fat (mostly mono- and polyunsaturated fats). Best fat sources: olive oil, canola oil, nuts, seeds and fatty fish like salmon. Lifestyle Change
With 80 percent of people with type 2 diabetes overweight, and weight loss directly related to improved diabetes control, these guidelines are meant to help people with diabetes or at risk for the disease lose weight and keep it off. To initiate and maintain weight loss, Joslin recommends losing just one pound every one to two weeks by reducing daily calories by 250 to 500 calories.
An essential component of any healthy lifestyle is physical activity.Joslin encourages a target of 6090 minutes of modest-intensity physical activity (including cardiovascular, stretching and strength training) most days of the week, with a minimum of 150175 minutes per week.
Joslins bottom line: There is no fad diet that will help people with type 2 diabetes lose weight and reduce their risk for serious complicationsjust a lifestyle change.
This article appeared in the Special Diabetes Insert of the November 21, 2005 issue of TIME Magazine."
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg
 Signature Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Kurt - 16 Mar 2006 00:32 GMT > Hi All > [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > This article appeared in the Special Diabetes Insert of the > November 21, 2005 issue of TIME Magazine." I think Joslin is a great site and one I refer to often because I think, like the ADA, they offer realistic advice to people with diabetes. However, they came under attack awhile ago here when Sally posted what they said about "a carb is a carb"
http://www.joslin.org/managing_your_diabetes_665.asp
"We now know that in general, a sugar-containing food like a piece of angel food cake may have 30 grams of carbohydrate in it, but that piece
of cake will have the same effect on your blood glucose as 2/3 cup of rice or one cup of applesauce, both of which have 30 grams of carbohydrate in them," says Chalmers. "So, if this man's meal plan that
he's developed with a dietitian states that he can eat 60 grams of carbohydrate at a meal, it's his choice where he 'spends' those 60 grams. One time he may have 2/3 cup of rice and one cup of applesauce, because that's what he feels like eating. Another time he may decide to
eat a cup of applesauce, a cup of milk (12 grams of carbohydrate) skip the rice, and have the small piece of angel food cake for dessert."
Best, Kurt
Loretta Eisenberg - 16 Mar 2006 00:44 GMT Alan, thanks for sharing this with us. I found it most interesting. Loretta now if I could only remember what I read lol
-- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.
morris - 16 Mar 2006 08:32 GMT Joslin seems to have changed their website, and so the page with these nutritional recommendations seems to be temportarily (I hope) unavailable. A description, found by searching their site for "nutrition guidelines", reads as follows: "Joslin Diabetes Center Announces New Nutrition Guidelines for People with Type 2 Diabetes or Pre-Diabetes who are Overweight or ObeseBOSTON - April 6, 2005." It's the only item on the page of search results that does not have a clickable link. From previolus looks a thtis, I know that it is not their general nutrition recommendations, but is specifically for those who are obese or overweight, and recommends no more than a 25% reduction from previous caloric intake and no less than 130 grams of carbs per day.
Jenny - 16 Mar 2006 16:25 GMT but is specifically for those
> who are obese or overweight, and recommends no more than a 25% > reduction from previous caloric intake and no less than 130 grams of > carbs per day. 130 grams of carbs a day is more than I often used to eat when I wasn't diabetic and was eating all those "healthy whole grains". Will the dietitian community ever realize that the carbohydrate recommendation for a 6' 2 350 lb man is not the same as the recommendation for a 5'2 125 lb woman?
I know several small women who are overweight at 125 lbs. 130 grams would be almost 1/2 of their daily caloric intake on a reducing diet, to say nothing of the havoc they'd wreak on their blood sugar.
OTOH, for that 350 lb man, that carb count might be 1/5 of his daily intake on a reducing diet that is 1/2 of what he used to eat and with his additional body weight he might be able to absorb that extra carbohydrate without spiking over 200 at every meal.
SIZE MATTERS. And not only the way the spammers would suggest. <G>
--Jenny
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes Diabetes Info
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood Sugar Under Control
morris - 16 Mar 2006 21:09 GMT Makes sense to me. I wasn't endorsing that Joslin guideline, merely filling in some of the details they give, since they seem temporarily unavailable.
Size does matter, not just in calories or grams of bcrbs, but also as you noted in another thread, with blood glucose and glycemic load. The same glucose stuck into more blood means less of a spike than if put into less blood. Kind of like alcohol. The advice is often 1 drink for a woman, 2 for men--this is based on the usual relationships of a small woman and a larger man, which is of course oversimplified, but based on the amount of blood the alcohol is mixed with. Which is why determining dunkenness is a matter of percentage of alcohol in the blood, not the amount you have had to drink. Blood glucose is mearured the same way.
Quentin Grady - 17 Mar 2006 10:55 GMT This post not CC'd by email On 16 Mar 2006 12:09:01 -0800, "morris" <morrisolder@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Kind of like alcohol. The advice is often 1 drink for >a woman, 2 for men--this is based on the usual relationships of a small >woman and a larger man, which is of course oversimplified, but based on >the amount of blood the alcohol is mixed with. G'day G'day Morris,
A second factor is that women usually have a higher percentage body fat content. The alcohol will dissolve only in the aqueous proportion of the body and this partition is smaller in women.
Best wishes,
 Signature Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
Alan S - 17 Mar 2006 10:18 GMT >Joslin seems to have changed their website, and so the page with these >nutritional recommendations seems to be temportarily (I hope) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >reduction from previous caloric intake and no less than 130 grams of >carbs per day. I just tried it again: http://joslin.org/managing_your_diabetes_3231.asp
It worked fine for me.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg
 Signature Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
bj - 17 Mar 2006 23:51 GMT >>Joslin seems to have changed their website, and so the page with these >>nutritional recommendations seems to be temportarily (I hope) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > It worked fine for me. Me too.
I notice, though, that they recommend "60-90 minutes of modest-intensity physical activity" most days of the week, but a minimum of only 150-175 minutes. Maybe they're afraid to do the math up front (call it 360-540 mins, with 1 day of rest) 'cause it might scare people? bj
morris - 18 Mar 2006 03:18 GMT Funny. I just rtied it again. Still does not work. I use Moazilla, so I tired IE. Doesn;t work there either. In both case the site works, but t=witht he search, that study is listed without a link.
morris - 18 Mar 2006 03:19 GMT Funny. I just tried it again. Still does not work. I use Mozilla, so I tried IE. Doesn't work there either. In both case the site works, but with the search, that study is listed without a link.
Alan S - 18 Mar 2006 04:29 GMT >Funny. I just tried it again. Still does not work. I use Mozilla, so I >tried IE. Doesn't work there either. In both case the site works, but >with the search, that study is listed without a link. A few alternative ideas:
Home page:
http://joslin.org/
Diet for obese type 2 Guidelines:
http://joslin.org/755_2541.asp
General guidelines:
http://joslin.org/managing_your_diabetes_joslin_clinical_guidelines.asp Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg
 Signature Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
morris - 18 Mar 2006 08:35 GMT Quentin Grady - 17 Mar 2006 08:01 GMT This post not CC'd by email On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:45:48 +1100, Alan S <loralweightandcarbs@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>The following are Joslins guideline essentials (shown as >approximate percents of daily calories): [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >oil, nuts, seeds and fatty fish like salmon. >Lifestyle Change G'day G'day Alan,
It is doubtful that many people will realise just how important are these guidelines from Joslin. About five years ago the sacrosanct macronutrient ratio associated with the ADA and some other US organisations of
Carbohydrate 55% minimum Fat 30% maximum Protein 15%
began to fade from view. They might well be figures to aim at for people of normal weight. The reality of weightloss as Joslin now acknowledges is that maintenance levels (15%) protein don't work. Twenty percent seems to be the threshold for success. Some push it as far as 40% by calories. Notice that Joslin is admitting some people have healthy kidneys and one shouldn't let the problems associated with those who have kidney disease stand in the way of adopting a strategy that encourages weightloss if one doesn't have kidney disease. Put simply, if you are newbie faced with where to start, be cautious, get the kidney and liver function tests done THEN either see a registered nutritionist who understands the Joslin guidelines or adopt their guideline essentials and start following the standard procedure of testing, testing, testing.
Notice that fibre has been pushed up from the typical US figure of about 10 grams per day to 20 to 35 grams per day. It helps with satiety. So of course does the protein.
Notice how they are advocating a mix of animal and vegetable protein. This seems to be the wisest strategy when pushing protein beyond the 20% mark. IMHO the optimal strategy is to have three days with lean meat, one with fish, one with chickpeas, one with lentils, and one seafood such as prawns, mussels and edible seaweed etc.
You might like to think of having two vegan nights, one Thai night, one Moroccan night, and three more traditional nights.
>With 80 percent of people with type 2 diabetes overweight, >and weight loss directly related to improved diabetes [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >losing just one pound every one to two weeks by reducing >daily calories by 250 to 500 calories. Best wishes and thanks.
I wonder if people really recognise the supreme gift Joslin has given them by moving with the mainstream scientific position on diets for overweight and obese people instead of indulging in obfuscation which must be tempting in the demise of the low fat fad.
 Signature Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
bj - 17 Mar 2006 18:46 GMT > Notice that Joslin is admitting some people > have healthy kidneys and one shouldn't let the problems associated [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > adopt their guideline essentials and start following the standard > procedure of testing, testing, testing. And keep on having those liver & kidney tests from time to time. Things can change (even if you don't have diabetes &/or aren't doing any special diet, etc.). bj
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