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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / March 2006Entitlements
We have heard this word used recently. In our mixed up tax system this means you. Almost all of us use health insurance in some form. When you do the leg work, you will find almost all health care insurance is heavily subsidized by the tax system. There are answers but maybe the wrong people with selfish motives see only their own way. Single thought patterns seems to lead to futile wars. It is an election year. Don't bitch later if you keep quiet. Guy || We have heard this word used recently. In || our mixed up tax system this means you. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] || quiet. || Guy Entitlements -- PC redefinition of welfare.  Signature"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw >|| We have heard this word used recently. In >|| our mixed up tax system this means you. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Entitlements -- PC redefinition of welfare. I am talking about people that were very predictive and produced significant research work. Getting sick and seeing their assets depleted by things not their fault. That is not welfare. Yes the irrational sucker welfare advocates are very different from providing a basic safety net. I know so many "rich" that acquired assets with no effort that blast others that were not so fortunate. I am well aware of the abuses, since I am familiar with Appalachia. I do know that every item we consume has to be produced. entitlement conceived in the 1030's were soundly based. Today we have an unholy mess. The answer is hardly understood by a "gold spoon" president. A fair system is what we should strive to achieve. And to realize that the problem is related to the non performing poor and the arrogant rich that accidently acquires wealth with no real associated productivity Huge sums are gong to people that have no knowledge of the US. Uncle Sucker. I live in a reasonable middle class style BUT I see so many that are not so lucky. I see a lot of abusers. The answer is to not throw the baby out with the wash water. || On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:41:48 GMT, "BJ in Texas" || <bjtexas@hotmale.con> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] || || I know so many "rich" that acquired assets with no effort that || blast others that were not so fortunate. || [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] || a lot of abusers. The answer is to not throw || the baby out with the wash water. My comment made no judgement about right or wrong, no fairness or unfairness and no accusations of abuse. That is your perception. I gave you a definition of the term 'entitlement' as it is used with regards to our public welfare system. BJ Signature"The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue." -- Anonymous > My comment made no judgement about right or wrong, > no fairness or unfairness and no accusations of abuse. > That is your perception. I gave you a definition of > the term 'entitlement' as it is used with regards to our > public welfare system. In the Federal budget entitlements incluse Social Security, Medicare, and a number of other things like compensation to veterans. I don't see the politically correct (PC) connection. > My comment made no judgement about right or wrong, > no fairness or unfairness and no accusations of abuse. > That is your perception. I gave you a definition of > the term 'entitlement' as it is used with regards to our > public welfare system. You gave the definition of entitlements used by bigots, not the real one. Disgusting behavior in a group where you know some folks are disabled and relying on PA and/or Medicaid. Susan >|| We have heard this word used recently. In >|| our mixed up tax system this means you. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Entitlements -- PC redefinition of welfare. Lets see, you pay into a system all your working life such as Social Security, and when time comes to get your benefits, (an entitlement) you are somehow classified as a welfare recepient by some. Makes no sense to me, but then sometimes you just have to consider the source. Sleepy ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is easier to make a saint out of a libertine than out of a prig. -George Santayana (1863-1952) ------------------------------------------------------------------ || On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:41:48 GMT, "BJ in Texas" || <bjtexas@hotmale.con> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] || recepient by some. Makes no sense to me, but then sometimes || you just have to consider the source. Only because you give a negative conotation to the term welfare -- "a rose by any other name is still a rose." Signature"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money." -- G. Gordon Liddy >|| On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:41:48 GMT, "BJ in Texas" >|| <bjtexas@hotmale.con> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >Only because you give a negative conotation to the term >welfare -- "a rose by any other name is still a rose." I give a negative connotation to the word "welfare"? The context of your sentence gave it the connotation. Quoting Liddy now? Certainly your right to do so. I'll never forget the time he gave advice to those who wanted to kill federal marshals and or FBI. He told them that body armor protected them and to go for the head shot. Sleepy ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is easier to make a saint out of a libertine than out of a prig. -George Santayana (1863-1952) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Everybody that would be interested in that kind of advice already knew that. They didn't need G. Gordon to tell them. :-) -- Cheri Sleepyman wrote in message <6aqe02p07ngavflap5emv81nnc4f5t24dq@4ax.com>... >Quoting Liddy now? Certainly your right to do so. I'll never forget >the time he gave advice to those who wanted to kill federal marshals >and or FBI. He told them that body armor protected them and to go for >the head shot. > >Sleepy >Everybody that would be interested in that kind of advice already knew >that. They didn't need G. Gordon to tell them. :-) Agreed. What I never figured out is what Liddy had to gain by saying it? Higher ratings perhaps? Sleepy ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is easier to make a saint out of a libertine than out of a prig. -George Santayana (1863-1952) ------------------------------------------------------------------ I never liked the man, never. To me, he and all of his Watergate cohorts, Mitchell, Dean, and Haldeman to name a few, were simply the height of arrogance, but he was particularly sinister IMO. I won't even get started on Nixon, though I voted for him. :-) -- Cheri Sleepyman wrote in message ... >Agreed. What I never figured out is what Liddy had to gain by saying >it? Higher ratings perhaps? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >-George Santayana (1863-1952) >------------------------------------------------------------------ >I never liked the man, never. To me, he and all of his Watergate >cohorts, Mitchell, Dean, and Haldeman to name a few, were simply the >height of arrogance, but he was particularly sinister IMO. I won't even >get started on Nixon, though I voted for him. :-) Cheri, be thankful that the system established by group of zealots that had the sense to setup a system that controls the individual. There are so many trying to defeat the system today to serve their very biased desires. More important is the sense of fair play that pervades most of us. You will know a dictator when they have firm control. Too late then. Lets hope the system and the people will avoid any dominant person or group that will quietly get control. Guy Very true Guy, very true. I hope so too. -- Cheri >Cheri, be thankful that the system established by group of zealots >that had the sense to setup a system that controls the individual. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >person or group that will quietly get control. > Guy >I never liked the man, never. To me, he and all of his Watergate >cohorts, Mitchell, Dean, and Haldeman to name a few, were simply the >height of arrogance, but he was particularly sinister IMO. I won't even >get started on Nixon, though I voted for him. :-) I was 20 in 72 so my first presidential vote was that year. We didn't vote for the same person (surprise, surprise). I did have a bumper sticker during Watergate that read "Don't Blame Me, I'm From Massachusetts" lol! Sleepy ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is easier to make a saint out of a libertine than out of a prig. -George Santayana (1863-1952) ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Entitlements -- PC redefinition of welfare. I thought it was the Bushes' word for inheritance, tax free. Susan I do not consider my entitlements welfare. I spent 30 years in the military EARNING them. Are you a member of the Bush family of a.sholes or are you an independent a.shole? Anon > Entitlements -- PC redefinition of welfare. >I do not consider my entitlements welfare. I spent 30 years in the military >EARNING them. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >> Entitlements -- PC redefinition of welfare. I guess the guys and gals coming home from active right now, missing limbs, are looking for handouts when they ask for their entitlements? bad soldier, bad, how dare you expect uncle sam to install that wheel chair ramp and provide you with the chair and the rehab training. and the rent, food and living expenses while you get the retraining, if you are actually still able to work. although I am being sarcastic with that remark, I am not exaggerating or being untruthful. Many only get the help they need because people, individuals volunteer to give it to them. pay in blood, and get short changed. The US government did before and has no problem doing it again. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins Jesus never hated anyone. > I guess the guys and gals coming home from active right now, missing > limbs, are looking for handouts when they ask for their entitlements? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the rent, food and living expenses while you get the retraining, if > you are actually still able to work. Very good points, Mack. I see many vets daily who are still fighting their wars, years after their return. That is a very big problem that most of the "conservatives" just do not understand.... They send people in harms way, where if they are not killed, or maimed, they are mentally scarred for life! I know what it is like to have ptsd that just does not go away for decades... It changes a person for the rest of a lifetime. It seems to me that if Congress and we, the public, are not willing to "pay the freight" in terms of all the costs of our wars, we should not be fighting them, at all.... Just one very tired man's opinion.... The returning veterans deserve the very best that a grateful nation can provide, and yes, they are "entitled." Let those who resent paying such entitlements be among the first to go into combat the next time around, so they can get their share. Will, T2 >>I guess the guys and gals coming home from active right now, missing >>limbs, are looking for handouts when they ask for their entitlements? [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Will, T2 For once I agree with Mack. At least the portion that you quoted. Will miracles ever cease? :) (I Googled "miracles never cease" and "miracles ever cease" and got 600k+ hits for the first and 500k+ hits on the second form of the saying). Like toe-mate-toe and toe-maht-toe. Dave > For once I agree with Mack. At least the portion that you quoted. Will > miracles ever cease? :) How's it going tonight, Dave, you ole rascal? ;-) Hope all was well with you today. Just wanted to say hello. Will, T2 >>For once I agree with Mack. At least the portion that you quoted. Will >>miracles ever cease? :) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Will, T2 doing great, Will, doing great! Do you watch American Idol? I've watched every show and thought last night had the best batch of guys out of it's 5 year run. Mary and I really enjoyed the show last night! Dave > How's it going tonight, Dave, you ole rascal? ;-) > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dave I've seen it a few times, but I missed it last night... Hope you have a great evening. I am getting ready to have to leave for a while. Will, T2 >although I am being sarcastic with that remark, I am not exaggerating >or being untruthful. Many only get the help they need because people, >individuals volunteer to give it to them. > >pay in blood, and get short changed. The US government did before and >has no problem doing it again. You know, Mack... It is a little bit how they screwed the Native Americans... Will, T2 > || We have heard this word used recently. In > || our mixed up tax system this means you. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Entitlements -- PC redefinition of welfare. ENTITLEMENTS: Rights granted by law or contract (especially a right to benefits) I checked three dictionaries and none of them defined an entitlement as being welfare. I've never heard entitlement programs called welfare anywhere but here. Maybe I need to get out more, but boy am I looking forward to drawing my social security welfare, and my medi-care welfare. ;-) -- Cheri Freckles wrote in message ... >ENTITLEMENTS: Rights granted by law or contract (especially a right to >benefits) >I checked three dictionaries and none of them defined an entitlement as >being welfare. >I've never heard entitlement programs called welfare anywhere but here. >Maybe I need to get out more, but boy am I looking forward to drawing >my social security welfare, and my medi-care welfare. ;-) Sounds like you are very "entitled" to me Cheri.. You have paid the dues many times over, I am sure, as have most of the rest of us in the U.S. Will, T2 Will, I couldn't agree with you more about the veterans. It's disgusting. I have a cousin who was a prisoner of war in Viet Nam for over five years. He's a lawyer too, and I'm sure if I said his name, you would probably know him since he sued the federal govt for reneging on veterans medical care for veterans of WW2 and Korea who had served twenty years or more. He was horribly hurt in Viet Nam, and his family was devastated but they never once gave up hope. I don't know how, but he still maintains a good sense of humor. I have nothing but admiration for the veterans even if I am "conservative" in some things, and I support ANY and ALL benefits for them. -- Cheri W.M.McKee wrote in message <6uaf02he38m9b7pqmccqhc875me5g8q2fp@4ax.com>... >Sounds like you are very "entitled" to me Cheri.. You have paid the >dues many times over, I am sure, as have most of the rest of us in the >U.S. > >Will, T2 > Will, I couldn't agree with you more about the veterans. It's > disgusting. I have a cousin who was a prisoner of war in Viet Nam for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > for the veterans even if I am "conservative" in some things, and I > support ANY and ALL benefits for them. Thank you, Cheri.... Really, most people, if they would just think about it, would see things pretty much the same way. Unfortunately, an alarming proportion of our public do not seem to think about it very much. I am truly delighted your cousin was successful in making his claim. He deserves everything he gets in the way of benefits, and I am sure a lot more, besides.... War is about the most savagely "inhuman" activity of which I can think, and the real cost is absolutely incalculable. It seems that mankind will never learn... And the religious crazies who are constantly wanting to remake the world in the image of their own kookie religions right now seem to be about the worst. Do you know of any good bo trees you could recommend? :-) Will, T2 "BJ in Texas" <bjtexas@hotmale.con> wrote in news:wCCNf.26290$_S7.13501 @newssvr14.news.prodigy.com: >|| We have heard this word used recently. In >|| our mixed up tax system this means you. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Entitlements -- PC redefinition of welfare. Entitlement - right granted by law or contract (especially a right to benefits); "entitlements make up the major part of the federal budget" The Presidents retirement pay is an entitlement The soldiers disabled by war recieve entitlements. Your right to free speech - no matter how foolish, is an entitlement. > "BJ in Texas" <bjtexas@hotmale.con> wrote in news:wCCNf.26290$_S7.13501 > @newssvr14.news.prodigy.com: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Your right to free speech - no matter how foolish, is an entitlement. When I think of entitlement, I think more along the lines of a benefit, or freebie, whereas free speech is guaranteed by the First Amendment. The democrats love entitlements. Reasonable people are usually for free speech. Quite a difference. Dave David <David@invalid.com> wrote in news:6 _SdnblXKNKmHZrZnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@comcast.com: >> "BJ in Texas" <bjtexas@hotmale.con> wrote in news:wCCNf.26290$_S7.13501 >> @newssvr14.news.prodigy.com: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Dave Your 'entitled' to think of entitlement anyway you choose. But I'd think it's best to stick to the meaning in a dictionary and not Limbaughs definition. Of the two, his useage would be the PC one. There is nothing wrong with entitlements. My retirement pay is an entitlement and last I looked I'm not a welfare mother. I had a contract with the US Government. I honored my end and they damn well better honor theirs. What your thinking of is subsistance. There is nothing wrong with subsistance if it is used properly. It's charity. Liberals place individuals above than property. A basic difference between liberals and conservatives and a battle won years ago by Jefferson. The conservatives of the time like John Adams wanted nothing to do with universal sufferage and wanted the right to vote restricted to property owners. he also was against public education and free speech when used by those with critism of his presidency. The Alien and Sedition Acts were an attempt by Adams to reign in liberal critisms of the time. Principally from Thomas Jefferson. Today the battle has been renewed and we see property being taking from individuals, Free Speech Zones, Limiting of freedoms, secrecy by public servants, rampant cronnism and the accompaning incompetence, and the extension of faithbased thinking to the point that civil experts are ignored as never before. If the ideas of Adams finally prevail we all lose. > David <David@invalid.com> wrote in news:6 > _SdnblXKNKmHZrZnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@comcast.com: [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > If the ideas of Adams finally prevail we all lose. When I said "benefit or freebies" I'm talking TWO distinctly different types of entitlement. One is earned and one is not. Perhaps I wasn't clear when I put them both in the same sentence. I was trying to equate the two: just listing them both as "entitlements". Liberals love doling out the freebies to the consternation of us taxpayers. Dave AND conservatives hate doling out benefits to those that have earned them. > When I said "benefit or freebies" I'm talking TWO distinctly different > types of entitlement. One is earned and one is not. Perhaps I wasn't [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dave > AND conservatives hate doling out benefits to those that have earned them. I'm trying to remember which administration had the fiscal discipline to reduce the deficit and balance the budget without Bushwhacking the economy... anyone who can remind me? Some folks think the only legitimate entitlement is an inheritance. Susan > Some folks think the only legitimate entitlement is an inheritance. > > Susan and many inheritances aren't deserved! :) dave >> David <David@invalid.com> wrote in news:6 >> _SdnblXKNKmHZrZnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@comcast.com: [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > > Dave Not really. I am a JFK liberal, a taxpayer and I do not think a dole is a good idea. No liberal I know thinks welfare was a well managed system. The problem wasn't the liberal voters, it was the Democratic congressmen who kept a bad system without fixing it against all of our wishes. Many of the worst were southern Democrats who are about as unliberal as one can get. They kept it to keep the Black vote. Both party's have been unresponsive to the majority for years. I doubt the majority of conservatives are thrilled with the deficits, negative savings rate, lack of income growth, alternative minimum tax and poor market performance. I also doubt they are mostly born again fundimentalists. The middle is comprised of sane folks like me and you who mostly agree on most of the big issues but differ on the when and how and who. We are the majority yet our public servants have ignored us for years. The best vote in my honest opinion, is against whoever is the incumbant. Maybe then the idiots would figure out their responsibilities are to the majority and not the vocal minorities. I think the best thing that a man can be given is a job. But on the other hand I do think the government should ensure every child has what it needs to become the best citizen it can become regardless of the circumstances of it's birth. It just makes sense in today's competative world to not overlook any potential Einstein, Poe, or Salk. Look what the GI bill after WWII was able to achieve. Men from all walks of life obtained good educations in professional fields and contributed greatly to the success of America for the four decades after WWII. I also don't think an accident of birth should automatically endow one with a status and position unearned. That type of 'welfare' is seldom addressed by conservatives. We have the product of that type of 'welfare' in the White House now and even my conservative friends privately agree he's in way over his head and about as presidential as the family pet. >David <David@invalid.com> wrote in news:6 >_SdnblXKNKmHZrZnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@comcast.com: [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > >If the ideas of Adams finally prevail we all lose. This issue will hit home for a lot of you in the end. I do not like Bush blaming entitlement for the mess we are in today. It is a smoke screen to cover his failures. I was neutral until now. I did a pretty good job of saving but I see it going through inflation. Same numbers but much less value.. In the start of this thread I said it is an election year. Medicine has already done a number many people. The vote is the only thing that power crazy politicians understand.. "guy" <guys@consolidated.neet> wrote in message > In the start of this thread I said it is an election > year. As in Presidential? Geez that gets the newsgroups hopping ;) Could I make a suggestion? Feel free anyone to cry me down ;) For threads don't have a lot, if any, international content - e.g. US politics, could a possible "US content" be added to the subject line? US law and entitlements etc mean zero to me and no doubt other non US posters. A clue in the subject line lets the rest of us either ignore the thread or participate if they choose. "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in news:imPNf.623$z03.30@news- server.bigpond.net.au: > "guy" <guys@consolidated.neet> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > subject line lets the rest of us either ignore the thread or > participate if they choose. Only if you type yours upside down and backwards so we know it's from down under:) >"Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in news:imPNf.623$z03.30@news- >server.bigpond.net.au: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Only if you type yours upside down and backwards so we know it's from down >under:) We're actually the ones right side up. We're just usually too polite to tell you until you ask. That's why US upside down and backwards is easy - as "sn". Now try to find an upside down "a" on your keyboard:-) Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. >>"Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in >>news:imPNf.623$z03.30@news- server.bigpond.net.au: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. > d&e, metformin 2x500mg 3u0P 773m up7p '0773H > "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in news:imPNf.623$z03.30@news- > server.bigpond.net.au: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Only if you type yours upside down and backwards so we know it's from down > under:) I thought my typos were already bad enough that people could tell who I was :) "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in news:5MTNf.823$z03.0 @news-server.bigpond.net.au: >> "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in > news:imPNf.623$z03.30@news- [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > I thought my typos were already bad enough that people could > tell who I was :) Typos? I thought that was your accent. >Only if you type yours upside down and backwards so we know it's from down >under:) They can't... They are too busy doing roof repairs on their vehicles, due to all that upside down driving they do. >"guy" <guys@consolidated.neet> wrote in message > >> In the start of this thread I said it is an election >> year. > >As in Presidential? Geez that gets the newsgroups hopping ;) Oh no - not again -it's two bloody years away! >Could I make a suggestion? Feel free anyone to cry me down >;) For threads don't have a lot, if any, international [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >subject line lets the rest of us either ignore the thread or >participate if they choose. Great idea - "US" in lieu of "OT". And, for the Presidential election, "PUS". Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. d&e, metformin 2x500mg SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. > >"guy" <guys@consolidated.neet> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Great idea - "US" in lieu of "OT". And, for the Presidential > election, "PUS". Yes, because some political threads are to do with health issues (insurance, medicare etc). PUS is good :) >Great idea - "US" in lieu of "OT". And, for the Presidential >election, "PUS". Usually, we use a different acronym for Presidential Elections: BS. >"guy" <guys@consolidated.neet> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >subject line lets the rest of us either ignore the thread or >participate if they choose. Presidential election is more than 2 years away Sleepy ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is easier to make a saint out of a libertine than out of a prig. -George Santayana (1863-1952) ------------------------------------------------------------------ "Sleepyman" <dont@bother.com> wrote in message > Presidential election is more than 2 years away So what elections ARE this year? "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in news:N05Of.1134$z03.756 @news-server.bigpond.net.au: > "Sleepyman" <dont@bother.com> wrote in message > >> Presidential election is more than 2 years away > > So what elections ARE this year? The congressional elections are coming up next. But in these United States, elections don't seem to mean much more that the local football rivalry, so I expect the average American will vote for the guy who can spit the farthest and fart the loudest as they have in the last few. The best part of the year is started with Fat Tuesday and ended with Stupid Tuesday. One starts in New Orleans with a carnival and the other ends in Washington DC with a parade of clowns. Bring the kids, have a good laugh. > "Ozgirl" <are_we_there_yet@maccas.com> wrote in news:N05Of.1134$z03.756 > @news-server.bigpond.net.au: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > rivalry, so I expect the average American will vote for the guy who can > spit the farthest and fart the loudest as they have in the last few. Ok, sounds normal then. >> So what elections ARE this year? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Tuesday. One starts in New Orleans with a carnival and the other ends in > Washington DC with a parade of clowns. Bring the kids, have a good laugh. HEY! Don't blame DC for that mess -- we don't have a voting rep, & no senators of any sort. There *may* be more emphasis during the campaigns because of trying to shift the party balances in the House & Senate, depending on how mad how many people get about various decisions & Supreme Court rulings. (people didn't really believe it when pundits said that the Pres. election would affect the SC) bj > Liberals place individuals above than property. A basic difference >between liberals and conservatives and a battle won years ago by [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >extension of faithbased thinking to the point that civil experts are >ignored as never before. Hi Gene, not meaning to seem obstreperous, but when we as a public have been taxed as individuals, often times against our wills and with great resentment, we as individuals are "entitled" to receive the benefits we were promised in the original compact... Social Security, medicare, medicaid, veterans benefits, the whole wad... I have paid dearly, and I demand my right to collect my benefits, when the time comes, which is just around the corner....:-) And when any politico, spewing any ideology, tries to take away what I have been paying for over the last 40+ years, he/she/ or it will get absolutely no support from me, no matter what his label. Indeed, it will be the basis for a revolution, I most humbly submit. I agree with the part of your post about the need to resist the limiting of speech and freedoms that we have come to enjoy. And, I agree that the so-called "faithbased thinking" to which you refer is just a lot of rot. On a personal note, I hope you have been OK these last few days. I have not seen you around here much. Take care, buddy. Will, T2 >> Liberals place individuals above than property. A basic difference >>between liberals and conservatives and a battle won years ago by [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Will, T2 Doing grrreeaaat! Will, hope you and yours are fine also. Now on to your post. Will, I am always full of obstreperous arguments. I truely enjoy your posts. You seem to have a love for the language much as I do. Somewhere we have a wire crossed because I agree with what you say entirely and don't see where I ran counter to your first statement. Entitlement is owed not given and if they know what is good for them they will honor their contract. >Doing grrreeaaat! Will, hope you and yours are fine also. Now on to your >post. Will, I am always full of obstreperous arguments. I truely enjoy [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Entitlement is owed not given and if they know what is good for them they >will honor their contract. Hi Gene, I'm just an ordinary guy, and nothing special, but I do enjoy the language. I truly savor words. And, I return the compliment to you. I find your posts are often remarkably thoughtful, and I enjoy your writing, as well. One of the great things about this group is that there are a number of very intelligent people from all over the world who participate here, and who write in an engaging way. The expressiveness of those from Australia, New Zeland, the UK, and Canada really enriches us in the U.S., I feel, because our society has dummed itself down to such an extent that it is rare to encounter anyone who can even talk coherently. Maybe that is an exaggeration, but I think you know what I am getting at. One example, because she shines so brilliantly in her use of language, is Amy, over there in London.... Now, I submit, she is one who can really write well! Hello, Amy.:-) Actually, there are so many others who fascinate me in their expressiveness, in different ways, that it would be impossible to name them all. Quentin also comes to mind... Hello, Quentin. :-) Well, I hope you have a truly great day, Gene. Maybe sometime, when there is more time, we can discuss the dole in ancient Rome, and how it was used as a political tool. In parting, I would ask, are there lessons to be learned there for us? Will, T2 >>Doing grrreeaaat! Will, hope you and yours are fine also. Now on to >>your post. Will, I am always full of obstreperous arguments. I truely [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > coherently. Maybe that is an exaggeration, but I think you know what I > am getting at. Will, I'm in the deep south where there is miles and miles between decent conversations. > One example, because she shines so brilliantly in her use of language, > is Amy, over there in London.... Now, I submit, she is one who can [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Will, T2 Certainly there is. Social engineering, when applied with intelligence, is a good tool. It's often used by parents and sometimes by governments to great effect. The problem today is that our present administration probably thinks social engineering is a drunk train driver. There are many interesting and intelligent folks in this group. More than I've seen togather in years. You take care. >>Doing grrreeaaat! Will, hope you and yours are fine also. Now on to your >>post. Will, I am always full of obstreperous arguments. I truely enjoy [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >Will, T2 Beware of Romans bearing gifts.... Sleepy ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is easier to make a saint out of a libertine than out of a prig. -George Santayana (1863-1952) ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Beware of Romans bearing gifts.... Actually, Sleepy, this quote most likely derives from the words of Laocoon in Virgil's "Aeneid". Loacoon was a priest in Troy who warned against the assumption that the 'Trojan Horse" was a gift from the Greeks, and he warned against breaching the city wall to make way for the horse, so they could bring it into the city. The actual translation of the quote goes more or less like this, “Men of Troy, do not trust the horse. Whatever it is, I am wary of the Greeks even when they are bringing gifts.” ( "Equo ne credite, Teucri. Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.") Öïâïý ôïõò äáíáïýò êáé äþñá öÝñïíôåò (in Greek) Shortly after delivering his warning, in the poem, the God Poseidon sent two enormous serpents who coiled around Laocoon and his two sons, killing them.... As you may recall, it is said the "Aeneid" was commissioned by Augustus Caesar to celebrate the founding of Rome. So, that's probably where you got the idea that it was about Romans bearing gifts. Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all.... but as a kid, I had to memorize very large sections of the "Aeneid" in the Latin, and then had to give translation of the entire thing. What tedium! And yet, today I think I may be somewhat better off, for having had the experience. Regrettably, it seems hardly anyone learns the classics, anymore... And so endeth today's reading.... Will, T2 >> Beware of Romans bearing gifts.... > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Will, T2 And I thought I just making a minor play on words.... Sleepy ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is easier to make a saint out of a libertine than out of a prig. -George Santayana (1863-1952) ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Beware of Romans bearing gifts.... > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Will, T2 And I thought I just making a minor play on words.... Sleepy ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is easier to make a saint out of a libertine than out of a prig. -George Santayana (1863-1952) ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Beware of Romans bearing gifts.... >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >-George Santayana (1863-1952) >------------------------------------------------------------------ Don't know why this came out twice, I must have flucked up. Sleepy ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is easier to make a saint out of a libertine than out of a prig. -George Santayana (1863-1952) ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Beware of Romans bearing gifts.... > > Sleepy Hi, Sleepy... The actual more familiar expression that you had in mind was probably more along the lines of "beware of Greeks bearing gifts." This refers to a passage in the "Aeneid" by Virgil, who wrote that epic poem at the instance of Augustus Caesar. The exact line is, "Equo ne credite, Teucri. Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes." A rough, more literal translation is, "Do not trust the horse, Men of Troy. whatever it is, I fear the Greeks, even when they bear gifts." The reason you probably thought of the quote as though it had been the Romans bearing gifts is that it is a Roman era epic poem written by Virgil, supposedly under commission by Augustus. F?ß?? t??? ?a?a??? ?a? d??a f????te? ***(in Greek) "Beware of Greeks, bearing gifts" I have attempted to render the quote in Greek, but News Rover does not seem to want to accept the Greek characters, so you may not get it... sorry, if it does not come through. In the story of the Aeneid, the one who spoke these lines was Laocoon, a priest if Troy. He was attempting to warn the Trojans against breaching their own walls to take the horse into the city. When the Trojans chose to disregard the counsel of Laocoon, he threw a spear at the horse, which had Ulysses (Odysseus) and some chosen warriors concealed inside. Poseidon, who was on the side of the Greeks, became angry at Laocoon for delivering the warning and throwing the spear, so he sent two sea serpents to kill Laocoon and his two sons, Antiphantes and Thymbraeus, wrapping and crushing them in their coils. The scene is graphically described in an amazing bit of imagery, of which I will spare you the details.... A famous statue depicting the scene survives from antiquity, and it is attributed to the Rhodian sculptors Hegesandros, Athenedoros, and Polydoros. Hope I do not bore you. As a teenager, I had to memorize and recite vast portions of the Aeneid and a number of other classical works in the Latin. Then, I also had to recite portions of many of the works of Caesar, Virgil, Pliny, Cicero, Seneca, Juvenal, Tacitus, Ovid, and others, and render translations into English.... At the time, it seemed like a real drag, but looking back on it now, I realize more than ever how that knowledge of the classics has helped shape me in ways that most kids just don't get today. Thanks for your post. I guess I have too much time on my hands today. For once, I did not have a day in court today. Hope you have a great weekend! Will, T2 Sorry you guys had to read what was essentially the same post twice. I attempted to send it once, and thought it did not go through, because of "operator error"... My ethernet cable came out of the back of my laptop. So, I re-wrote it and sent it again.... Interestingly, it looks as though one time the Greek mostly came through, and the other time it was corrupted.... Will, T2 Looking more closely, the Greek was corrupted both times. I guess News Rover, or my news server, or something does not support Greek! Will, T2 >Looking more closely, the Greek was corrupted both times. I guess News >Rover, or my news server, or something does not support Greek! > >Will, T2 even if you had your version correctly updated to support Greek and other languages, there is no guarantee that everyone else has their various news programs updated to support it. That's why it's best to stick with the standard language of the newsgroup. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins Jesus never hated anyone. You have got a point there, Mack. Will, T2 > even if you had your version correctly updated to support Greek and > other languages, there is no guarantee that everyone else has their > various news programs updated to support it. That's why it's best to > stick with the standard language of the newsgroup. Hi Mack, I have been thinking about this post of yours, and while I agree with you as to the Greek, I do not necessarily agree as to the other languages which I have been known to bandy about in some of my more philosophical posts. If you have noticed, most of the other linguistic stuff I throw in from time to time comes from the great literary classics of other major languages, such as French and German, or classical Latin. I have always tried to be careful to give appropriate English translations, so that no one would feel left out, but I maintain that sometimes things expressed in the original languages, such as the writing of Goethe, Schiller, Rilke, Niebuhr, Mallarme, Victor Hugo, Virgil, Ovid etc. are best expressed in the original language, and that any English translation loses a little of the original stuff. The problem with the Attic and Doric Greek and other languages that do not use our standard Latin/West European alphabet is that the letters and characters are so radically different that the computers of most people just will not accept them, without a little tweaking. Since my failed attempt to convey the look and character of Ancient Greek the other day, I have remedied that shortcoming in my own computer, and I am happy to report that it now handles Ancient Greek (Attic and Doric) and Hebrew. Nevertheless, I realise that most computers of our readers are simply not set up to handle those other alphabetical characters. So, in the future, I shall refrain from Greek, Cyrillic (Russian), and Hebrew. You might be surprised to learn that I do from time to time get email from lurkers out there written in German and French, as well as others interested in classical Latin.... Some people, I submit, seem to appreciate the flavor that the other languages bring. So, in future, while I may continue to post to some limited extent in other languages for the flavor, so to speak, I promise always to try to render the appropriate English translations.... It is not my intention for anyone to kept in the dark as to the essence of the meaning of any of my posts. Thanks for bringing up the point, as it gave me a great opportunity to explain. Will, T2 > The problem with the Attic and Doric Greek and other languages that do not > use our standard Latin/West European alphabet is that the letters and > characters are so radically different that the computers of most people just > will not accept them, without a little tweaking. Since my failed attempt to It's not necessarily the receiver's computer. I can put Spanish, Japanese, whatever in a post, and when it comes back to me, it still renders correctly. But sometimes, when other people who did see it correctly, quote it, it is screwed up. Sometimes the problem is that newsservers in between fail to read the character set headers, or even remove them. SignatureWes Groleau ----------- Daily Hoax: http://www.snopes2.com/cgi-bin/random/random.asp >> The problem with the Attic and Doric Greek and other languages that do not >> use our standard Latin/West European alphabet is that the letters and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >in between fail to read the character set headers, or even >remove them. Also, I think a lot of it is the computer set up, itself... For instance, I can switch among American English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Attic Greek, and Hebrew, by keyboard setup and default fonts, simply with a click of my mouse.... Depending upon what mode a person is in, it will display correctly, or not. I have found that most folks have no trouble receiving the French, German, and Latin when I use the familiar American English setup.... On the other hand, it does not seem to work well with the other languages, unless I convert to a pdf file before sending.... You are correct, I think, Wes, when you surmise that news servers in the chain screw it up. Nevertheless, I have not had any trouble reading foreign language newsgroups, or websites, in the French or German whenever I have wanted to. And the fact that I get emails in both languages in response to some of my posts here suggests that there are lurkers out there who appreciate the occasional literary allusion... Then, again, lots of people on here, besides myself, have made the occasional quote in Latin, and everyone seems to get it, even if they might not really know Latin... As long as a translation is provided, I should think that would be fine. Thanks for you comments. Just the challenge of the technical issues is fun for me.... :-) Will, T2 That's one of the nicest things about you Will IMO. People need answers to (sometimes stupid questions) and you're always willing to try to give a coherent answer. :-) -- Cheri W.M.McKee wrote in message ... >Thanks for you comments. Just the challenge of the technical issues is >fun for me.... :-) > >Will, T2 > That's one of the nicest things about you Will IMO. People need answers > to (sometimes stupid questions) and you're always willing to try to give > a coherent answer. :-) Thanks, Cheri. That's part of what being "supportive" is all about, I think. And you, with your wonderful spirit, make it so easy and such a pleasure! :-) Will, T2 > screw it up. Nevertheless, I have not had any trouble reading foreign > language newsgroups, or websites, in the French or German whenever I A "correctly done" web page contains a tag that identifies the encoding method used in the page. (Oddly, the encoding method is incorrectly called the character set by the tag.) If a web page does not have that, your browser will either use its default setting or attempt to guess. If you see weird things where you know there should be quotation marks, the page was created on a Macintosh and your machine is trying to use the default "Windows-1252" (or vice versa). SignatureWes Groleau ----------- "Thinking I'm dumb gives people something to feel smug about. Why should I disillusion them?" -- Charles Wallace (in _A_Wrinkle_In_Time_) >> screw it up. Nevertheless, I have not had any trouble reading foreign >> language newsgroups, or websites, in the French or German whenever I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >the page was created on a Macintosh and your machine is trying to use >the default "Windows-1252" (or vice versa). That's good to know, Wes... You are getting a little beyond my technical expertise, I think. I have a lot to learn. :-) Will, T2 >> even if you had your version correctly updated to support Greek and >> other languages, there is no guarantee that everyone else has their [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > >Will, T2 mountain out of mole hill. it was simply a comment on screen characters. better example, try using Chinese characters and see how they come up on someone's machine that is not updated to display Chinese characters. Now your point, is a separate one. Even if they showed up correctly on 100% of the machines viewing them, if the people don't speak the language it's a wasted post. Hey it looks pretty, but skip over it, can't read it. Of course you should try posting in English in non-English newsgroups. Now that gets you a really nasty response. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins Jesus never hated anyone. at is not updated to display Chinese characters. >Now your point, is a separate one. Even if they showed up correctly >on 100% of the machines viewing them, if the people don't speak the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Of course you should try posting in English in non-English newsgroups. >Now that gets you a really nasty response. Well, respectfully, the way I see it, some people seem to appreciate appropriate bilingual posts, as long as a translation is provided, and it does sometimes help people connect in ways that not everyone may appreciate. As long as the English is provided, it is not a wasted post, unless the reader just does not care, or does not get the point, which is also OK .... Not everyone can be expected to understand everything. Il fait partie de la joie de vie. (It is part of the joy of life.) Do you really do Chinese? That is something I tried to learn a few years ago, and I totally bogged down.... Chinese is worth knowing, I think, if one has the time to learn it. Will, T2 >at is not updated to display Chinese characters. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Il fait partie de la joie de vie. (It is part of the joy of life.) 1st you're using english characters to spell out a french phrase. no biggie, for those unable to read french, copy and paste to an online translator, it mangles it, but you get something close to the correct translation. >Do you really do Chinese? That is something I tried to learn a few >years ago, and I totally bogged down.... Chinese is worth knowing, I >think, if one has the time to learn it. > >Will, T2 Have you ever seen a chinese keyboard? each key is capable of typing multiple characters. and those characters will not display on your end unless you have the chinese character set loaded on your end. try using an online translator for chinese, now that gets really mangled. it's as bad as trying to translate farsi. do I actually speak them? no. SignatureMâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o ô) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." ....Bilbo Baggins Jesus never hated anyone. >> Beware of Romans bearing gifts.... >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >Will, T2 I was aware of most of this, but not all. Thanks for filling the gaps. Sleepy ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is easier to make a saint out of a libertine than out of a prig. -George Santayana (1863-1952) ------------------------------------------------------------------ I think you both are wrong. "Entitlements" is used in many ways as something one is entitled to. For example, some consider dividends to be an entitlement. http://www.coned.com/documents/elec/159-164a.pdf However, its most typical use today has nothing to do with the tax code or welfare in the traditional sense - i.e. checks being given to poor people just because they are poor. It is programs like social security, medicare, medicaid, and VA benefits that the govt. is obliged to pay. Social security, for example, is not needs based - except in the case of disability or a child losing a parent - and all Soc. Sec. checks are paid from the FICA income stream, just as current retirees paid for retirees before them. Bill > || We have heard this word used recently. In > || our mixed up tax system this means you. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Entitlements -- PC redefinition of welfare. |
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