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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / April 2006A now familiar pattern.
Some one "new" comes with questions about something they are doing. Polite responces are over time met with growing hostility if some part of what the "new" person insists is a valid approach to dealing with diabets is an obvious unsound practice. When patience with them runs out they plead being a victum and that other people are just closed minded. In the end personal attacks are made to people on the board who don't accept some practice. The practice often has some small part that could be valid in some instances but proabably is not a good idea in the long run. With growing hostility they seem to concentrate on a small set of people to attack and this tends to be the same set of people for each "new" person to follow the pattern. After a time a person can see such patterns and then begins to suspect the same person or a very few such people. Sometimes it is a herb or something to take or to say they eat lots of sugar and see no reason to think it might be a problem or some other question that could be a real new person. But then the pattern comes out and it looks like they know what hot button topic to use and what they really want is to attack some people they know might not agree. > Some one "new" comes with questions about something they are doing. > Polite responces are over time met with growing hostility if some part [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > people. [snip obfuscation] Hello milo, i'm glad you [appear to] agree with me, unless of course you're one of the ng trolls. there does indeed seem to be "the same set of people" who attack newcomers to asd. What do you think their motives are? Can't they appreciate that newcomers may have something to contribute and shouldn't just be attacked for being newcomers?  SignatureBob Dx T1 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid (trying zeroish carb - kiddies, do not try this at home) Gee milo speakof the devil The Bob troll, who is back under yet another name says you are supporting him, not describig him >>Some one "new" comes with questions about something they are doing. >>Polite responces are over time met with growing hostility if some part [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > are? Can't they appreciate that newcomers may have something to > contribute and shouldn't just be attacked for being newcomers? Hi ted, still giving out the abuse I see. very helpful.......... SignatureBob Dx T1 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid (trying zeroish carb - kiddies, do not try this at home) > Hi ted, still giving out the abuse I see. very helpful.......... > > -- > Bob > Dx T1 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid > (trying zeroish carb - kiddies, do not try this at home) I came here at first and was told i was a troll too .. odd that as i came here about 4 years ago and got the same treatment ... I've thick skin so it doesn't bother me but i'm sure it would scare off others. If you're going to suffer from trolls whatever you do why not just welcome all with open arms and let the real trolls do their own thing? If you don't feed them they go away, that's SOP for dealing with them. A bit less infighting would make this a much nicer place to be for everyone. Rgds. Patrick > I came here at first and was told i was a troll too .. odd that as i > came here about 4 years ago and got the same treatment ... > I've thick skin so it doesn't bother me but i'm sure it would > scare off others. > If you're going to suffer from trolls whatever you do why not just > welcome all with open arms and let the real trolls do their own > thing? If you don't feed them they go away, that's SOP for > dealing with them. > A bit less infighting would make this a much nicer place to be for > everyone. Hey fester, i could ignore them but they are preventing me getting the most information out of this newsgroup. I don't really understand their agenda but i dislike their attitude towards new or controversial opinions. SignatureBob Dx T1 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid (trying zeroish carb - kiddies, do not try this at home) > > I came here at first and was told i was a troll too .. odd that as i > > came here about 4 years ago and got the same treatment ... [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Dx T1 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid > (trying zeroish carb - kiddies, do not try this at home) Just ignore it and take what you need and contribute what you want, this is yoosenet, open forum and yours to use as you want. That's always been my motto ... i've been around here longer than a lot of people and have seen a lot more people come and go. If you let people get under your skin then you're the only one who loses out. At the end of the day we're all just ones and zeros on here ;) Patrick > Just ignore it and take what you need and contribute what you want, > this is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > just ones > and zeros on here ;) Thanks Pat, maybe you're right. Bye. SignatureBob Dx T1 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid (trying zeroish carb - kiddies, do not try this at home) >I came here at first and was told i was a troll too .. odd that as i came >here about 4 years ago and got the same treatment ... I've thick skin so it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Patrick Patrick, As I wasn't here four years ago, I have no idea why you were called a troll upon your arrival. I don't think I have seen you treated as such since your return, and I doubt anyone remembers what you posted four years ago, meaning you were treated as a newbie to the group when started posting again. I do occasionally scan ASDUK I don't see your compatriot bob posting there very often. However he seems to enjoy posting here. I have yet to see him post anything constructive, without a nasty insinuation posted at the end, or more likely, a post that is clearly meant to attract a negative response, marking him as a troll. I see you are counseling him to have a thick skin, and to welcome the trolls with open arms. As i see him as the troublemaker, I don't see how this advice will be of any use to him. Maybe you should tell him the truth. Members here are not welcome to post in ASDUK, and for the most part, we don't. I might suggest you counsel your compatriot to post there more often, as he can't seem to get along with anyone here. I would hate to see it happen, but I think you may get a lot more Americans posting on ASDUK to avoid seeing your compatriot posting here. As he refuses to take the advice of those who post here, maybe his fellow brits, can teach him some manners. Sleepy ======== COWBOY UP! ======== > Members here are not welcome to post in ASDUK, and > for the most part, we don't. Oh, I hadn't heard that one before. I wondered why I didn't see more US peeps. Oh well I suppose it makes sense. I never liked Wheatabix anyway. Signaturet2_lurking geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete) >> Members here are not welcome to post in ASDUK, and >> for the most part, we don't. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I never liked Wheatabix anyway. The name of the group *is* Alt.Support.Diabetes.United.Kingdom, ya know. If you are from the UK, you are welcome to post here, but they made a separate group for themselves, and so be it. I suspect it is because they prefer to speak in their own lingo, and I certainly can't blame them for that, as I can barely make head nor tail of a lot of it. Sleepy ======== COWBOY UP! ======== > I do occasionally scan ASDUK I don't see your > compatriot bob posting there very often. However he seems to enjoy [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > compatriot posting here. As he refuses to take the advice of those who > post here, maybe his fellow brits, can teach him some manners. Woh snoozehead, methinks thou trespass too far... I will stop posting just as soon as you do. I need to continue reading this ng and intend to continue doing so for as long as I can [be bothered]. Maybe you shouldn't see me as the troublemaker but rather as the "oil on the water". Surely that's not a threat to you? ...or maybe it is (just what is your point?) ..and was that a threat? You are going to spam the uk group because you don't like me? Grow up and meet your fellow diabetics. We're just out here. SignatureBob Dx T1 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid (trying zeroish carb - kiddies, do not try this at home) > >I came here at first and was told i was a troll too .. odd that as i came > >here about 4 years ago and got the same treatment ... I've thick skin so it [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > COWBOY UP! > ======== Ok a few points i'd make ;) 1. I had no idea where bob was from and to my mind it matters not. 2. He's a compatriot of mine by geographical location and by the nature of his disease, neither of us had any choice over this. 3. Not everyone can be as terminally positive as others and what might seem like a negative response to some may well be just how that person is 4. How anyone else sees him yourself included is only of any real concern to bob. My advice to you would be to either killfile him if he causes you that much pain and suffering or simply not bother to read his posts if they offend that much with their high degree of negativity. 5. I don't look for nationality when i read newsgroups and never have. And whether someone takes advice or not is not relevant, they may be absorbing it for later digestion, or maybe on a more morbid level it's to be able to sit on their deathbed in 20 years time with a wry grin on their face knowing exactly what it was that killed them. At the end of the day all anyone who posts here has to worry about is how they post themselves. It is not for any of us to worry about how or what others post. All i've seen of bob in the posts i've read are responses to other posts that invite a sarcastic english humour to "have a go". I certainly don't see any need to teach anyone manners, least of all bob. When he yells "F**K OFF" at you then perhaps i'd be more inclined to agree. If all he does is persistently disagree then surely that's as much his right as it is yours. Finally, i do believe that many people in this day and age spend far too much time worrying about what others say, it detracts from what is an otherwise pleasant place to be. Patrick >> >I came here at first and was told i was a troll too .. odd that as i >came [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >1. I had no idea where bob was from and to my mind it matters not It shouldn't matter, but are you saying you hadn't noted that bob was a fellow brit? You hadn't noticed his posts in ASDUK? Patrick, are you being candid here? . >2. He's a compatriot of mine by geographical location and by the nature of >his disease, neither of us had any choice over this. No argument here. You can pick your friends, but you cannot pick your relatives, or fellow countrymen. >3. Not everyone can be as terminally positive as others and what might seem >like a negative response to some may well be just how that person is No one has ever accused me of being terminally positive! Lol.. And some people are just nasty a.s holes with a negative agenda, which has been painfully obvious in bob's case since his first self indulgent post. >4. How anyone else sees him yourself included is only of any real concern to >bob. My advice to you would be to either killfile him if he causes you that >much pain and suffering or simply not bother to read his posts if they >offend that much with their high degree of negativity. If I hadn't killfiled him, I would have directed my message to him, as opposed to an intermediary. We are all negative on occasion. That, in and of itself, is not a problem. I brought it up to you, merely because I read your post to him last, combined with the fact that you are a compatriot. To not notice that you are, in fact, a compatriot, would be ignorance on my part. He does not cause me any pain and suffering, as I see him for what he is. What he does do is disrupt the harmony of this group. And that does piss me off, as he does it on purpose. And by pissing me (and just about every other person here) off, he has accomplished his task. Hasn't he? >5. I don't look for nationality when i read newsgroups and never have. And >whether someone takes advice or not is not relevant, they may be absorbing >it for later digestion, or maybe on a more morbid level it's to be able to >sit on their deathbed in 20 years time with a wry grin on their face knowing >exactly what it was that killed them. I don't think anyone "looks for nationality", it is at times obvious. Spelling of certain words, or use of certain expressions often make it more than obvious. I do like that morbid little thought. It shows a sense of the bizarre. >At the end of the day all anyone who posts here has to worry about is how >they post themselves. It is not for any of us to worry about how or what >others post. All i've seen of bob in the posts i've read are responses to >other posts that invite a sarcastic english humour to "have a go". Have a go? There is some sarcastic humor, but most is being mean, petty, anti-american, and know it all one minute, and the next minute it's a false sense that he is a babe in the woods here, and only here to "lurk". The constant harping that a cabal is running the NG, and that he is being picked upon. Complaining that whenever someone mentions a namebrand in passing, that it is somehow a. commercial post, knowing damn well that it is not. The paranoia that everyone is out to get him. Provocation, after provocation, merely to draw a negative response. That sir, is the definition of trolling. Most people new to diabetes, as he claims to be, don't dismiss everything out of hand, and go out of their way to piss everybody off, and they don't try to create negativity with every post. >I certainly don't see any need to teach anyone manners, least of all bob. When >he yells "F**K OFF" at you then perhaps i'd be more inclined to agree. If >all he does is persistently disagree then surely that's as much his right as >it is yours. No it is not up to you to teach bob manners, but to deny that he needs teaching, is disingenuous at best. There is such a thing as disagreeing based on some factual information. That is common discourse. That is not the problem anyone has with bob. I thought maybe you could see that, as you struck me as a sensible person. I still think you *are* a sensible person, and maybe you are being a little over protective, as you may think that we don't "get" bob's sense of humor. I assure you the members here do. Including the Americans. Disagree if you have something you believe in to counter with. Don't disagree when it is painfully obvious, and self admitted, that you nothing of this disease, and they only reason for the post is to sew discord. >Finally, i do believe that many people in this day and age spend far too >much time worrying about what others say, it detracts from what is an >otherwise pleasant place to be. Worrying about the negativity that pervades this place when someone tries so hard to destroy it, is a virtue. We all want a place where we can teach each other, and be able to disagree, without it becoming personal. We like to have a little fun on occasion, talk about life in general, things that get under our skin, etc. It is all part of the big picture, that makes us what we are. If nobody worries, or tries to repair damage, then this never becomes that pleasant place you mention. >Patrick I obviously made a judgement error, by asking you to intervene with bob, as I thought you were friendly and had some of the same ambitions that I and many others here have for the general well being of the NG. For that I do apologize. Sleepyman ======== COWBOY UP! ======== > >> >I came here at first and was told i was a troll too .. odd that as i > >came [quoted text clipped - 146 lines] > that I and many others here have for the general well being of the NG. > For that I do apologize. Oh i am friendly but i rarely get involved in things like this unless someone directly crosses me. I don't know, i do have most of the same ambitions that you have except that mine are more directly related to the care of my diabetes than to the running of a newsgroup. I've trolled before on different groups and know far too well how that whole thing goes and to be honest, Bob is not trolling. Sure he might be a pain in the a.s to all of you but he's not trolling. If you don't like what he says then ask people to killfile the people you don't like as you will never ever get rid of everyone that does not share either your single view or the view of the group. For that to happen you'd need to run a moderated group. If you run a moderated group then you lose the very spirit of an open support community. I'm not taking sides here or trying to pick a fight, just trying to be openly objective. Lastly, why do you feel the need to apologise? For my part that comes over as condescending which if i was a troll or in "that" mood would put my back up and make me liable to respond in very much the way that you accuse bob of doing. Patrick >> I don't think anyone "looks for nationality", it is at times obvious. >> Spelling of certain words, or use of certain expressions often make it [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >> that I and many others here have for the general well being of the NG. >> For that I do apologize. >Oh i am friendly I should have writen that differently. Though I am not saying you are not friendly, The sentence should have read something like "As you two are friendly" meaning you and bob. > but i rarely get involved in things like this unless >someone directly crosses me. I don't know, i do have most of the same >ambitions that you have except that mine are more directly related to the >care of my diabetes than to the running of a newsgroup. The old net nazi scenario...again. The last thing any sane person would want would to be to run this NG. True anarchy, helps no one either. > I've trolled before >on different groups and know far too well how that whole thing goes and to >be honest, Bob is not trolling. Sure he might be a pain in the a.s to all of >you but he's not trolling. Oh yes he is trolling and you know it. "Pain in the a.s to all of you"? The us vs them routine. Circle the wagons. Too bad you feel this way, as you are so wrong. >If you don't like what he says then ask people to killfile the people you >don't like as you will never ever get rid of everyone that does not share >either your single view or the view of the group. For that to happen you'd >need to run a moderated group. If you run a moderated group then you lose >the very spirit of an open support community. No one wants a moderated group as we have discussed previously. >I'm not taking sides here or trying to pick a fight, just trying to be >openly objective. Lastly, why do you feel the need to apologise? I apologized for involving you. >For my part >that comes over as condescending which if i was a troll or in "that" mood >would put my back up and make me liable to respond in very much the way that >you accuse bob of doing. Yup, I was a bit pissed at you, so the second part of my apology was purposely condescending. As was most of what I was relying to. If you were in your troll mood, you would respond as I think bob does. Interesting statement I think I understand you a bit better now, I wish you understood me a bit better. Que Sera Sera! Sleepyman ======== COWBOY UP! ======== > >> I don't think anyone "looks for nationality", it is at times obvious. > >> Spelling of certain words, or use of certain expressions often make it [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > not friendly, The sentence should have read something like "As you two > are friendly" meaning you and bob. Which is also untrue. I have replied to perhaps 3 in total of Bobs posts, hardly a basis for being either friends or friendly would you not agree? The two things we have in common are diabetes and our location. > > but i rarely get involved in things like this unless > >someone directly crosses me. I don't know, i do have most of the same [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you"? The us vs them routine. Circle the wagons. Too bad you feel this > way, as you are so wrong. You forgot to add "IMHO", but i'll let you off as you seem irritated. You don't actually know what i know, and trust me, what he's doing does not fit the classic case of trolling. You're actually just as guilty of this as you never seem to be able to not respond to him. What you have in this case is a severe difference of opinion, it just happens in this case that you happen to hold a majority opinion, but since you don't run a moderated group you can't actually do anything about it. > >If you don't like what he says then ask people to killfile the people you > >don't like as you will never ever get rid of everyone that does not share [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > No one wants a moderated group as we have discussed previously. Then kill file and ignore is your ONLY option here. > >I'm not taking sides here or trying to pick a fight, just trying to be > >openly objective. Lastly, why do you feel the need to apologise? > > I apologized for involving you. No problem:) > >For my part > >that comes over as condescending which if i was a troll or in "that" mood [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If you were in your troll mood, you would respond as I think bob does. > Interesting statement No, what i mean is that you used a combination of words that would illicit a response from someone that you would then read as "trolling". Seems to me that you're making your own bed here and then complaining about having to lie in it. Incidentally why be angry? There's enough anger in this world, not sure what i'd have done to offend you in such a way as to make you "pissed at me". > I think I understand you a bit better now, I wish you understood me a > bit better. We understand each other perfectly. > Que Sera Sera! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > COWBOY UP! > ======== Indeed .. whatever will be will be, including Bob and god knows how many more you feel are like him. Patrick. On 8-Oct-2003, "Fester" <fester@nospamtagmx.co.uk> wrote in response to a rather obvious "troll" by mucky mack.: > No, what i mean is that you used a combination of words that would > illicit a response from someone that you would then read as > "trolling". > Seems to me that you're making your own bed here and then > complaining about having to lie in it. Hey mucky, listen. People are trying to tell you something. If you keep acting as a deliberate troll, you may get called on it. SignatureBob Dx T1 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid (trying zeroish carb - kiddies, do not try this at home) >> >> I don't think anyone "looks for nationality", it is at times obvious. >> >> Spelling of certain words, or use of certain expressions often make it [quoted text clipped - 156 lines] > >Patrick. You are right patrick, We do understand each other completely, and BTW when was the last time I replied to one of bobs posts? Sleepy ======== COWBOY UP! ======== <snip> >You are right patrick <snip> I haven't any idea who was right. Just demonstrating how to snip. Cheers Alan, T2, Oz -- Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter. ><snip> >>You are right patrick ><snip> >I haven't any idea who was right. Just demonstrating how to snip. > >Cheers Alan, T2, Oz You are correct on that one, I forgot, and remembered the moment after I hit send. Sorry about that. Sleepy ======== COWBOY UP! ======== The last 5 times IIRC. Hey Patrick, good to see you posting. Hope all is well with you. -- Cheri Fester wrote in message ... >The last 5 times IIRC. I see now that yours is a very old post. I dunno why the newsreader dropped this in here. Must be a slow day. ;-) -- Cheri Cheri wrote in message ... >Hey Patrick, good to see you posting. Hope all is well with you. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Fester wrote in message ... >>The last 5 times IIRC. > I think I understand you a bit better now, I wish you understood me a > bit better. Aah snoozehead, wish no more. I think everyone understood and understands you pretty well. You're still insulting people rather than engaging them. You're rather transparent. Before i could help it my mind was listing the words i could attribute to you. But to make sure i didn't miss any, I checked in the thesaurus, there's certainly a couple in the list that i wouldn't have thought of, but overall i think it describes you. shaky, untrustworthy, unreliable, undependable, not to be trusted supple, flexible, tergiversating disingenuous, unstraightforward, untruthful, uncandid, untrue two-faced, insincere, hypocritical creeping, crawling tricky, artful, dodging, opportunist, slippery, snaky, foxy, cunning shifty, shuffling, prevaricating, equivocal designing, scheming sneaking, underhand, latent up to something, on the fiddle, wangling not straight, unstraight, indirect, bent, crooked, devious, oblique, tortuous, winding, labyrinthine insidious, dark, sinister shady, fishy, suspicious, doubtful, questionable fraudulent, spurious under-the-table, illicit foul, bad unclean, dirty mean, shabby, dishonourable, infamous, disreputable derogatory, unworthy, undignified inglorious, ignominious, degrading ignoble, unchivalrous, ungentlemanly unsporting, unsportsmanlike, unfair Anyway, can't really stop today Things to do. SignatureBob Dx T1 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid (trying zeroish carb - kiddies, do not try this at home) On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:10:40 GMT, "Bob ...with thanks for privacy to: " <me@privacy.net> wrote: >Anyway, can't really stop today Things to do. pulling wings of flies again? Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. >pulling wings of flies again? Beats getting run off newsgroups for being Hypocritical TROLL, right Mack? Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long. > pulling wings of flies again? [snip offensive and simply inaccurate sig] Yuck, never tried it mucky, is that what you did as a kid? Shame on you. SignatureBob Dx T1 4/4/2003, Insulatard & NovoRapid (trying zeroish carb - kiddies, do not try this at home) Bob ...stepped out of privacy to: wrote: > [snip offensive and simply inaccurate sig] You make me want to use the same sig. But then I'd be feeding a troll, so I'll resist for a while. SignatureWes Groleau Can we afford to be relevant? http://www.cetesol.org/stevick.html > Some one "new" comes with questions about something they are doing. > Polite responces are over time met with growing hostility if some part of [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > and it looks like they know what hot button topic to use and what they > really want is to attack some people they know might not agree. I was a prime example of the pattern you have noted. I was new, scared, depressed about my diagnosis, and was treated like a troll when I wasn't one. Though still somewhat changed and less inclined to post as often here, I can understand that since this newsgroup is definitely subject to major troll assault, it may come with the territory. Some tips; Coming here to learn and being careful not to tell the regulars what they ought or ought not be doing is a clue to some acceptance, but still no guarantee. Usenet being what it is, you have to take the trolls and the trash and killfile them, and grow a thicker skin. There are some threads that I just mark the whole thing as read. Another tip is to lurk awhile and see who the most helpful people are. There ARE some very kind people here who really know their stuff and are never nasty. Ask them your questions directly or see what they say to others. SignatureEvelyn "Since everything is but an apparition, perfect in being what it is, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst into laughter." -Longchenpa (To reply to me personally, remove sox) |
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