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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / February 2006

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Single Daily Injections

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travis.cannell@gmail.com - 25 Jan 2006 22:07 GMT
Does anyone out there take single daily doses of insulin rather than
pump or multiple daily injections? I have tried both MDI and the pump.
It sounds that a single dose that could provide adequte control
throughout the day would be _far_ superior than the other options.

-Travis
Ma¢k - 25 Jan 2006 23:24 GMT
On 25 Jan 2006 14:07:32 -0800, "travis.cannell@gmail.com"
<travis.cannell@gmail.com> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>Does anyone out there take single daily doses of insulin rather than
>pump or multiple daily injections? I have tried both MDI and the pump.
>It sounds that a single dose that could provide adequte control
>throughout the day would be _far_ superior than the other options.
>
>-Travis

sorry travis, if you are type 1, your best bet for good control is
either pumping or MDI.  The body's requirements throughout the day
will not remain constant enough to allow a single shot to gibe you
good control.

if you are a type 2 on insulin a single shot "may" possible if you can
adjust your diet and exercise routine enough to allow it.  Many do
just that.

Signature

Mâck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

tekgnos@gmail.com - 26 Jan 2006 16:51 GMT
> sorry travis, if you are type 1, your best bet for good control is
> either pumping or MDI.  The body's requirements throughout the day
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Mâck©®
> Type 1 since 1975

Hey Mack- have you tried what I am talking about or are you just
dispensing me the common Type-I advice?

I've done MDI and the pump. Neither of them fit my lifestyle. I want
something new, and a single dose of two insulins in the morning
combined with a low glycemic load diet seems like it could work really
well. The body's requirements are dictated by the types of food you
eat. If you eat lots of high glycemic index carbohydrates then this
certainly wouldn't work, because long acting insulin doesn't cover
spikes. But if what you eat is slowly absorbed as in the case with low
glycemic foods, it seems that long acting insulin could meet your
needs.

So I want to know- does anyone out there currently do this? Has anyone
done it in the past?
David - 27 Jan 2006 03:47 GMT
>>sorry travis, if you are type 1, your best bet for good control is
>>either pumping or MDI.  The body's requirements throughout the day
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> combined with a low glycemic load diet seems like it could work really
> well.

So let us know how your "new" version of DM management works for you.  I
wonder when insurance companies will wise up and start charging people
for pumps that go unused.

Dave
Ma¢k - 27 Jan 2006 04:04 GMT
>> sorry travis, if you are type 1, your best bet for good control is
>> either pumping or MDI.  The body's requirements throughout the day
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>So I want to know- does anyone out there currently do this? Has anyone
>done it in the past?

If you want no BG control you can survive on 1 shot a day.  enjoy the
complications when they set in.

Signature

Mâck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Alexander Arnakis - 27 Jan 2006 05:34 GMT
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:04:53 -0500, MaΆk
<stopthespam@shootspammers.com> wrote:

>If you want no BG control you can survive on 1 shot a day.  enjoy the
>complications when they set in.

It's all a matter of *odds*; nothing is cut-and-dried. I was diagnosed
Type 1 in 1965. For the first 10 years or so, I got by on 1 shot a day
of Lente or NPH. (Not because I was being wilfully negligent -- such a
regimen was the accepted standard in those days.) My control, although
considered "good" then, would undoubtedly be considered "poor" today.
We had no way of knowing, because home blood glucose monitoring or A1c
tests weren't available.

Yet the only serious complication I've gotten up to this point is
retinopathy, which appeared more than 20 years after the diabetic
diagnosis, and was effectively treated by laser photocoagulation.

It's way more *likely* that you'll get complications if you have poor
control, but it's not *guaranteed*. We shouldn't discount multiple
other factors that may come into play. However, given a choice, it's
always a good idea to strive for good control.
Ma¢k - 27 Jan 2006 08:26 GMT
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 05:34:57 GMT, Alexander Arnakis
<invalid@address.none> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:04:53 -0500, Ma¶k
><stopthespam@shootspammers.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>We had no way of knowing, because home blood glucose monitoring or A1c
>tests weren't available.

I know I started back in 1975 before BG testing as well.

>Yet the only serious complication I've gotten up to this point is
>retinopathy, which appeared more than 20 years after the diabetic
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>other factors that may come into play. However, given a choice, it's
>always a good idea to strive for good control.

Complications are basically a crap shoot.  If your lucky you won't
crap out for many years, but when you do, you crap out big time.

And I agree. the best way of avoiding diabetic complications is good
BG control for as long as possible.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Beav - 27 Jan 2006 20:04 GMT
> sorry travis, if you are type 1, your best bet for good control is
> either pumping or MDI.  The body's requirements throughout the day
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Mâck©®
> Type 1 since 1975

Hey Mack- have you tried what I am talking about or are you just
dispensing me the common Type-I advice?

I've done MDI and the pump. Neither of them fit my lifestyle. I want
something new, and a single dose of two insulins in the morning
combined with a low glycemic load diet seems like it could work really
well.

So why don't you inject your two chosen insulins once per day and see for
yourself?

The body's requirements are dictated by the types of food you
eat. If you eat lots of high glycemic index carbohydrates then this
certainly wouldn't work, because long acting insulin doesn't cover
spikes. But if what you eat is slowly absorbed as in the case with low
glycemic foods, it seems that long acting insulin could meet your
needs.

So why are you asking if you already have the answer firmly embedded in you?

So I want to know- does anyone out there currently do this? Has anyone
done it in the past?

Lots of people have done it. In fact, I'd hazard that there are many more
who used this system than didn't..... until a better system came along.

Signature

Beav
OMF#19
VN 750
Zed Thou

mail is beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com (with the obvious changes)

Alexander Arnakis - 26 Jan 2006 00:04 GMT
>Does anyone out there take single daily doses of insulin rather than
>pump or multiple daily injections? I have tried both MDI and the pump.
>It sounds that a single dose that could provide adequte control
>throughout the day would be _far_ superior than the other options.

It would be more *convenient*, that's for sure.

Back in the 1960's, a single daily injection of NPH or Lente was the
preferred treatment for Type 1. In fact, I remember reading ads from,
I believe, Lilly, touting their insulin research as "freeing"
diabetics from the "tyranny" of multiple daily injections of Regular.

Of course, back then, we didn't have home blood glucose testing or A1c
tests. The best we could do to monitor our condition was to test for
sugar in the urine, putting drops of urine and water in a test tube
and dropping in a reagent tablet. If the solution turned orange, you
were too high. This was little more than guesswork. And I would often
go a week or more without even *that* much testing.

I even had a doctor tell me -- citing some research by an expert named
Tolstoy -- that it didn't matter *how* high the blood glucose went, as
long as I was "feeling well" and wasn't in acidosis. That's why
testing for ketones was almost as important as testing for sugar.

Now we know better.

BTW, a single daily dose of Lantus might provide adequate control,
provided you didn't eat any carbohydrates. But a no-carb diet wouldn't
keep you in good general health.
tekgnos@gmail.com - 26 Jan 2006 16:40 GMT
I know that MDI allows more freedom to eat whatever you want, but I
wanted to know if anyone out there uses long-acting insulin and a
low-to-no carb diet. Not a no-carb diet per se but I am thinking a
low-carb diet that utilizes lots of low glycemic load foods, such as
salads, certain beans, etc. would work. Just nothing starchy that would
cause a spike in your glucose, such as white bread, potatoes, sugar,
pasta, etc.

Perhaps by maintaining strict dietary control, one could get good
results with a single shot of some sort of long acting insulin mix. I
saw a coupld posts with someone who claimed that this could work, but I
wanted to see if anyone else has tried it.

Lantus would be a good basal insulin too use because it doesn't peak,
but wouldn't be useful totally by itself because you need more insulin
in the daytime. Perhaps a form of lente and lantus in the morning could
work?

It hit me that a chart of insulin acting times could be extremely
helpful in this situation.
RK - 26 Jan 2006 16:56 GMT
It depends, are you a Type 1 or Type 2?

A type 2 could probably get away with what you're suggestioning.
But a Type 1 unless they knew their carb/insulin ratio most likely
wouldn't be able to.  Besides, a Type 1's basal usually isn't constant
this is why Lantus works so much better for Type 2's then Type 1's.

If you're a Type 1 and want to reduce your injections, pumping is the
way to go. Change the set every 3 days and think nothing more about
it except when you have to bolus when you eat or make corrections.

RK - pumper T1

|I know that MDI allows more freedom to eat whatever you want, but I
| wanted to know if anyone out there uses long-acting insulin and a
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
| It hit me that a chart of insulin acting times could be extremely
| helpful in this situation.
travis.cannell@gmail.com - 26 Jan 2006 18:24 GMT
> It depends, are you a Type 1 or Type 2?

Type 1

> A type 2 could probably get away with what you're suggestioning.
> But a Type 1 unless they knew their carb/insulin ratio most likely
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> way to go. Change the set every 3 days and think nothing more about
> it except when you have to bolus when you eat or make corrections.

Besides the fact that the pump is a hunk of plastic attached with a
tube, its great. But it doesn't fit my lifestyle to tote that thing
around at this point in my life.

If good control can be maintained by a single injection, I think this
could be a good alternative to MDI or the pump. One that would work for
someone like me.

> RK - pumper T1
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> | It hit me that a chart of insulin acting times could be extremely
> | helpful in this situation.
Vicki Beausoleil - 27 Jan 2006 01:16 GMT
>>It depends, are you a Type 1 or Type 2?
>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>>| It hit me that a chart of insulin acting times could be extremely
>>| helpful in this situation.

Maybe a 1 shot a day regimen would work if you would tailor your eating
to match it. Sounds pretty bad to me. There was someone who posted on
misc.health.diabetes that claimed to do only one shot a day.

Two shots a day would be doable, heck, any T1 that's been on R & NPH
knows that. They also know how hellish NPH can be.

Thanks, I'll keep my pump. My A1cs are lower, hypos are fewer, and I
only take one shot every 3 days.

Lilly's website used to have their time and activity profiles up. Under
the healthcare provider's only section. It's been years since I've been
there, but it's worth a look.

Vicki
T1, pumper
Alexander Arnakis - 27 Jan 2006 02:57 GMT
>Two shots a day would be doable, heck, any T1 that's been on R & NPH
>knows that. They also know how hellish NPH can be.

I used to do that for years, while I was still working (before I
retired). Morning and evening mixtures of R and NPH. I didn't find NPH
to be particularly "hellish." But the drawback to this regimen is lack
of eating flexibility during the day. I found myself "feeding the
insulin" and as a result gaining weight.

Today, if I were working and found it inconvenient to take insulin at
work, I'd take a basal dosage of Lantus and supplement it with
pre-breakfast and pre-dinner Humalog. And eat a no-carb lunch.
Jenny - 26 Jan 2006 20:31 GMT
> I know that MDI allows more freedom to eat whatever you want, but I
> wanted to know if anyone out there uses long-acting insulin and a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> cause a spike in your glucose, such as white bread, potatoes, sugar,
> pasta, etc.

I am a type "weird"  who still produces modest amounts of insulin but I
am not particularly insulin resistant so 1 unit of R will lower me about
60 mg/dl and 4 units of basal a day is all I need.

This past month I have been using basal insulin alone with a low carb
diet (less than 60 grams a day and less than 20 grams per meal, often
much less).

I am seeing completely normal numbers during the day--80s and low 90s
which is about a 25 mg/dl drop compared to my numbers eating the same
low carb diet foods without the basal.

But if I up the carbs I still see spikes--anywhere from 145-175 at 2
hours especially at breakfast. This regimen ONLY works if I stay
seriously low carb.

The insulin I've been using is "peaky" so I have been able to eat a bit
more carbs during the period when it peaks without going high--which
happens to be after lunch on my current schedule. Unfortunately, the
insulin I'm using is UL which is discontinued. I just today picked up a
Detemir starter kit that the doctor offered me.

I found with Lantus alone that if I got a dose that gave me pretty
numbers all day (85-95) while eating a moderate carb input (more like
75-100 grams a day) I went hypo at night. I do better with a shorter
acting insulin where I can split the dose so I can use more during the
day and less at night when there is no food in the system. I don't get a
huge dawn phenomenon  like some people.

> Lantus would be a good basal insulin too use because it doesn't peak,
> but wouldn't be useful totally by itself because you need more insulin
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> It hit me that a chart of insulin acting times could be extremely
> helpful in this situation.

One huge problem with the insulin curves is that they may be  based on
trials where people were taking very large doses. It turns out that
insulin absorbs differently and performs very differently when you use a
smaller dose.

The Detemir prescribing information gives two curves. One for .2units/kg
and one for .4units/kg. They are entirely different shapes. So if you
aren't injecting 50u at a time, you may not see the pattern portrayed in
the older insulin graphs.

--Jenny

http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u  Diabetes Info

http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood
Sugar Under Control
Peanutjake - 26 Jan 2006 21:06 GMT
The Lantus instructions say take the injection at bedtime and you will be
level all day.

Is that true?

PJ
David - 26 Jan 2006 21:08 GMT
> The Lantus instructions say take the injection at bedtime and you will be
> level all day.
>
> Is that true?
>
> PJ

If that were so, no one would need to go on an insulin pump, or take
boluses.   The answer is "no".

dave
Alexander Arnakis - 27 Jan 2006 03:00 GMT
>The Lantus instructions say take the injection at bedtime and you will be
>level all day.
>
>Is that true?

What they mean is a level release of insulin all day. Your BG would be
level (in theory) if you didn't eat anything. Any carbs you eat would
require a bolus of short-acting insulin.
Ma¢k - 27 Jan 2006 04:12 GMT
On 26 Jan 2006 22:07:06 +0100, "Peanutjake"
<peanutjakeNO@SPAM.nonesuch.net> Huffed and Puffed the following into
the madness of usenet:

>The Lantus instructions say take the injection at bedtime and you will be
>level all day.
>
>Is that true?
>
>PJ

Not for all people.  I had to take Lantus and Humulin N at bedtime.
Splitting Lantus didn't work for me any better than a single dose of
lantus.

You have to experiment under your doctor's guidance to find out how it
works on you.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Ma¢k - 27 Jan 2006 04:02 GMT
>I know that MDI allows more freedom to eat whatever you want, but I
>wanted to know if anyone out there uses long-acting insulin and a
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>It hit me that a chart of insulin acting times could be extremely
>helpful in this situation.

you are not supposed to mix lantus with anything.

Signature

Mâck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Alexander Arnakis - 27 Jan 2006 05:43 GMT
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:02:52 -0500, MaΆk
<stopthespam@shootspammers.com> wrote:

>you are not supposed to mix lantus with anything.

That's right -- but there's nothing stopping you from taking two
separate injections at the same time, Lantus and some other insulin.

Not only must you not mix Lantus with anything else, you mustn't use
the same syringe with Lantus and anything else. If you do this, you
could end up contaminating the entire Lantus vial.

I have a system of tracking syringes, so that I use a Lantus syringe
just once, but use Humalog syringes twice.
Ma¢k - 27 Jan 2006 08:28 GMT
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 05:43:07 GMT, Alexander Arnakis
<invalid@address.none> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:02:52 -0500, Ma¶k
><stopthespam@shootspammers.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>I have a system of tracking syringes, so that I use a Lantus syringe
>just once, but use Humalog syringes twice.

yep.  I went so far as to inject Lantus in leg and the humulin N in
the other leg.  The novolog in the abdomen.

Got pretty good results that way.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Hi_Therre - 27 Jan 2006 13:49 GMT
>>I know that MDI allows more freedom to eat whatever you want, but I
>>wanted to know if anyone out there uses long-acting insulin and a
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>you are not supposed to mix lantus with anything.

Why?  Are you using lantus in your new pump?  Or, are you using
novolog in the pump like RK does?
_____________________________________________
http://www.healthdiabeticsoftware.com/  Free
RK - 27 Jan 2006 15:44 GMT
| >>I know that MDI allows more freedom to eat whatever you want, but I
| >>wanted to know if anyone out there uses long-acting insulin and a
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
| _____________________________________________
| http://www.healthdiabeticsoftware.com/  Free

can't use Lantus in a pump, defeats the purpose of pumping.

was wondering which Mack was using myself, novolog or humalog.
I personally get better results from novolog -- but I'm still getting
zero effect when I use the last 1/8 of a vial -- so I usually toss the
vial when I get down that low, and yes, I've tried it with various vials
I still get the same results.
Hi_Therre - 27 Jan 2006 23:00 GMT
>| >>I know that MDI allows more freedom to eat whatever you want, but I
>| >>wanted to know if anyone out there uses long-acting insulin and a
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>vial when I get down that low, and yes, I've tried it with various vials
>I still get the same results.

I know nothing about a diabetic pump.  But, lantus is a viscous
liquid.  A liquid can be pumped.  I've seen some very dense slurry's
being pumped.  Why can't lantus be pumped?
RK - 27 Jan 2006 23:48 GMT
| >| >>I know that MDI allows more freedom to eat whatever you want, but I
| >| >>wanted to know if anyone out there uses long-acting insulin and a
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
| liquid.  A liquid can be pumped.  I've seen some very dense slurry's
| being pumped.  Why can't lantus be pumped?

Too slow of an insulin.  Why you need to use a fast acting like novolog
or humalog -- though novolog is the only fast acting that's approved for
pump use -- some have had problems with humalog crystalizing and the
insulin not getting through the tubing. only a very few, but they have to
let you know.

Think of it this way with pumping, I have my pump set for various amounts
at different times, so i'll just use the example of say.. .4u per hour --  
thats the
amount I know I'll be sure to get each time.. If I were to inject lantus
then
however much I'd go to take say 18u a night, it's time released and gives me
.75u per hour whether I want that much or not, or it might not be enough to
cover DP.. also you have to deal with where you inject it, a certain amount
always gets lost in the fat, it might pool under the fat, you might
metabolize it
too fast or too slow.. You have zero control over it in the end.  --

HTH explain a bit on how pumping works.

RK
Ma¢k - 28 Jan 2006 06:32 GMT
>I know nothing about a diabetic pump.  But, lantus is a viscous
>liquid.  A liquid can be pumped.  I've seen some very dense slurry's
>being pumped.  Why can't lantus be pumped?

Lantus lasts about 18 to 24 hours.  That's the average duration it has
it's most noticeable effect.  It has a residual effect for quite a bit
longer than that.  When making dose changes with Lantus you are
supposed to do so only once every 2 days.  Lantus also cannot be used
to bring down post meal BGs.  If you were to bolus with lantus in a
pump for  a meal it would no immediate effect.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Hi_Therre - 28 Jan 2006 13:03 GMT
>>I know nothing about a diabetic pump.  But, lantus is a viscous
>>liquid.  A liquid can be pumped.  I've seen some very dense slurry's
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>to bring down post meal BGs.  If you were to bolus with lantus in a
>pump for  a meal it would no immediate effect.

I just surfed the minimed site for some explanation, all they mention
is novolog and humalog.  I found no mention why lantus or any other
long acting insulin cannot be used in a pump.  I hear what you say
about the meals, but it can be solved.  Have two reservoirs, one for
lantus and another for novolog.  I was hoping to see just how minimed
was doing the pumping, but their site lacks detailed information on
the inner workings of the pump.  It all depends on how they do the
metering.

Wouldn't it be better for you to use lantus for your basal and novolog
for your bolus?  I hear what RK is saying about low flow rates, but,
since the pump is 24/7, her point seems questionable.

I wonder why the pump is made to handle only one insulin?  You
obviously cannot mix them is one reservoir.  Just seems to make sense
to have short acting insulin in one reservoir and long term insulin in
a second reservoir.  Each would have its own metering and user control
system.  Would such an idea make a better pump for you?  Just strikes
me that lantus was made for basal and novolog was made for bolus
function, and it should stay that way.

Maybe OldAl, the ASD expert on insulin, can add some commentary on a
dual insulin pump.
_____________________________________________
http://www.healthdiabeticsoftware.com/  Free
RK - 28 Jan 2006 15:28 GMT
| >>I know nothing about a diabetic pump.  But, lantus is a viscous
| >>liquid.  A liquid can be pumped.  I've seen some very dense slurry's
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
| _____________________________________________
| http://www.healthdiabeticsoftware.com/  Free

Old Al I don't think knows much about pumping.  It's taken the industry
20yrs
to get pumps as small as they are now, why would anyone want to go to a
dual?
But that makes no sense at all.  The main purpose of pumping is to have more
control over how you utilize the insulin.  A long acting wouldn't do a bit
of good,
it's completely useless in a pump.  Like I said, it completely defeats the
purpose
of pumping.  My answer isn't questionable in the least, it only is to you
because
you aren't understanding the meaning behind pumping.

Go back to the Minimed site.. at the top, click on "Pump School" and that
will
show you "how to pump" and the reasons.

Signature

----
RK - Animas IR1250 pumper
... having fun with autoimmune diseases NOT!
dx 5/00 - last a1c 6.3

Ma¢k - 28 Jan 2006 18:21 GMT
>| >>I know nothing about a diabetic pump.  But, lantus is a viscous
>| >>liquid.  A liquid can be pumped.  I've seen some very dense slurry's
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>will
>show you "how to pump" and the reasons.

approach the concept with this in mind, long acting insulins like
Humulin N, UL, Lente and Lantus are the poor man's pump.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Ma¢k - 28 Jan 2006 18:19 GMT
>>>I know nothing about a diabetic pump.  But, lantus is a viscous
>>>liquid.  A liquid can be pumped.  I've seen some very dense slurry's
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>_____________________________________________
>http://www.healthdiabeticsoftware.com/  Free

are you some how thinking that the chemical make up of the long acting
insulin and the short acting insulins make them both necessary?

The pump is programmed in such a way to cover all of the body's
insulin needs, far better than using both long acting basal insulins
and short acting bolus insulins together.

The fact is no one person's body ever needs one constant rate of
insulin all day long, every single day.  Everyone's insulin needs
change through out the day, every day.  With a dual basal/bolus
insulin regime such as lantus and novolog you cannot make the easy
adjustments on the fly that a pump allows.  Once you inject the
insulin it is in your system until it is used up.  And it is very
difficult at times to account for the different basal needs of the
body through out the day.

as far as using both insulins in a pump being better.  that's not the
case.  You only "need" both types of insulin if you are injecting via
syringe so that you do not have to take an injection every 2 to 3
hours all day and night if you only had the short acting insulin via
syringe.  The long acting insulin via syringe covers the bodies needs
between meals.  The pump covers that with short acting insulin simply
by dispensing micro amounts continuously at a preprogrammed rate for
the time of day.

which is actually better?  The pump using short acting insulin.
Better because of comfort, ease and flexibility.  as well as the very
tight control that it allows verses what one can attain using
injections.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Alexander Arnakis - 28 Jan 2006 22:46 GMT
On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:19:30 -0500, MaΆk
<stopthespam@shootspammers.com> wrote:

>which is actually better?  The pump using short acting insulin.
>Better because of comfort, ease and flexibility.  as well as the very
>tight control that it allows verses what one can attain using
>injections.

I'm waiting for the day that we have a continuous BG monitor,
controlling an insulin pump, all in an implantable package that has to
be replenished only once a month or so. This is the closest thing to a
"cure" I'm ever going to see in my lifetime.
Ma¢k - 29 Jan 2006 06:11 GMT
On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 22:46:41 GMT, Alexander Arnakis
<invalid@address.none> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:19:30 -0500, Ma¶k
><stopthespam@shootspammers.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>be replenished only once a month or so. This is the closest thing to a
>"cure" I'm ever going to see in my lifetime.

actually the closest thing we have to a cure right now are either
complete pancreas transplants or islet cell transplants.  Both are
done.  Both have been successful.

Both have their limitations.

as for the pump you describe.  Their is one already developed, and an
insulin developed specifically for it.  The only short fall is the
meter.  They are still a long way off from perfecting one.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Alexander Arnakis - 30 Jan 2006 03:46 GMT
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 01:11:24 -0500, MaΆk
<stopthespam@shootspammers.com> wrote:

>actually the closest thing we have to a cure right now are either
>complete pancreas transplants or islet cell transplants.  Both are
>done.  Both have been successful.
>
>Both have their limitations.

Sure. You have to take immunosuppressive drugs for the rest of your
life. I'd rather have an intact immune system, even if it means
continuing to take insulin. A pancreas or islet transplant only makes
sense if you have to have another organ transplant anyway.

This may be a case where the "cure" is worse than the disease.

>as for the pump you describe.  Their is one already developed, and an
>insulin developed specifically for it.  The only short fall is the
>meter.  They are still a long way off from perfecting one.

But no major conceptual breakthroughs are needed. We have *external*
meters that work fine. What's needed is adapting such a meter to work
inside the body (using a continuous sensor instead ot test strips,
etc.), and developing a closed feedback system so that the meter
readings control the pump.
RK - 30 Jan 2006 04:40 GMT
| On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 01:11:24 -0500, Ma¶k
| <stopthespam@shootspammers.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
|
| This may be a case where the "cure" is worse than the disease.

I have to agree there with you.  I've always thought that.  I'd rather
inject daily then have to pop 30-40 pills a day then worry if my body
is going to reject the cells -- or worse yet, it was an autoimmune problem
to begin with, whats to say it's not going to happen again?

| >as for the pump you describe.  Their is one already developed, and an
| >insulin developed specifically for it.  The only short fall is the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
| etc.), and developing a closed feedback system so that the meter
| readings control the pump.

I, personally don't mind how pumps are nowdays.. I test and push a
few buttons and away I go.. no fuss anymore.

Signature

----
RK - Animas IR1250 pumper
... having fun with autoimmune diseases NOT!
dx 5/00 - last a1c 6.3

Alexander Arnakis - 31 Jan 2006 05:16 GMT
>I, personally don't mind how pumps are nowdays.. I test and push a
>few buttons and away I go.. no fuss anymore.

I've considered going to the pump. The major drawback, to me, is
psychological. Being tethered to a device through tubing is like
crossing the last barrier to being "handicapped." Strange as it may
seem, it's important to me to maintain at least a vestige of
deniability. Besides that, I've worked out a very neat system so that
I can carry my insulin and testing items with me unobtrusively.
David - 31 Jan 2006 05:24 GMT
>>I, personally don't mind how pumps are nowdays.. I test and push a
>>few buttons and away I go.. no fuss anymore.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> deniability. Besides that, I've worked out a very neat system so that
> I can carry my insulin and testing items with me unobtrusively.

Handicapped??? I was handicapped when I was on MDI for 18 years.  I had
to maintain a rigid lifestyle; eat on a schedule.  sleep on a schedule.
 exercising was a PITA on MDI.  calling the paramedics wasn't a whole
barrel of laughs either!  I got my life back in '96 when I got my first
pump.  It's a shame you don't understand the ramification of the your
prejudices.

Dave
Alexander Arnakis - 31 Jan 2006 21:12 GMT
>Handicapped??? I was handicapped when I was on MDI for 18 years.  I had
>to maintain a rigid lifestyle; eat on a schedule.  sleep on a schedule.
>  exercising was a PITA on MDI.  calling the paramedics wasn't a whole
>barrel of laughs either!  I got my life back in '96 when I got my first
>pump.  It's a shame you don't understand the ramification of the your
>prejudices.

I had the "rigid lifestyle" when I was on 2 shots a day, combining
short- and long-acting insulins. That's when I had to eat on a rigid
schedule, and ended up gaining a lot of weight. With MDI, I can tailor
the insulin to the meals, and not the other way around. It's safe to
skip meals. I've been able to bring my weight down, and generally feel
better (except for the hunger pangs).

I've never had to call the paramedics in my life. The only time I was
hospitalized for diabetes was at the time of initial diagnosis.
David - 31 Jan 2006 21:49 GMT
>>Handicapped??? I was handicapped when I was on MDI for 18 years.  I had
>>to maintain a rigid lifestyle; eat on a schedule.  sleep on a schedule.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> I've never had to call the paramedics in my life. The only time I was
> hospitalized for diabetes was at the time of initial diagnosis.

I had no luck delaying a meal when I was on MDI.  Too much Lente or
Ultralente floating around in me. :)

dave
Alexander Arnakis - 01 Feb 2006 04:03 GMT
>I had no luck delaying a meal when I was on MDI.  Too much Lente or
>Ultralente floating around in me. :)

I think today's preference would be for a Lantus/Humalog combination.
If the basal Lantus dosage is correct, you can even fast all day if
you want to.
RK - 01 Feb 2006 04:19 GMT
| >I had no luck delaying a meal when I was on MDI.  Too much Lente or
| >Ultralente floating around in me. :)
| >
| I think today's preference would be for a Lantus/Humalog combination.
| If the basal Lantus dosage is correct, you can even fast all day if
| you want to.

I could fast most of the day until Lantus ran out on me. I'm a fast
absorber and ended up having to suppliment my Lantus with 3-4u
of NPH to carry me through to the next shot of Lantus.. I also found
that I had quite a bit of varying basal needs throughout the day that
Lantus just couldn't cover properly.

Signature

----
RK - Animas IR1250 pumper
... having fun with autoimmune diseases NOT!
dx 5/00 - last a1c 6.3

Ma¢k - 01 Feb 2006 17:36 GMT
>| >I had no luck delaying a meal when I was on MDI.  Too much Lente or
>| >Ultralente floating around in me. :)
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>that I had quite a bit of varying basal needs throughout the day that
>Lantus just couldn't cover properly.

Don't you hate it when they guess at it.

It's definitely a YMMV deal.  I also found that because of changing
basal patterns Lantus would not last all day.  

I used 25 units of humulin N along with the lantus and novolog.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

RK - 01 Feb 2006 19:00 GMT
| >| >I had no luck delaying a meal when I was on MDI.  Too much Lente or
| >| >Ultralente floating around in me. :)
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
|
| I used 25 units of humulin N along with the lantus and novolog.

Ah, yup..

I only used 3-4u of N (depending) and 18u of Lantus a night
Now pumping, my total basal for the day is 17.4u -- and usually
16-20u for my bolus, depending upon how much I eat.. I usually
have about 55-60gm per meal. -- with that, usually keeps me
right about 105-120mg -- and did I mention I rarely exercise --
when I do, I have to reduce my insulin by 20% usually. I'd say I'm
a pretty typical T1.

lol now, I have a bad day pain wise, lol and all bets are off and
it's a test every 2hrs just to make sure I don't peak over to 300
David - 01 Feb 2006 19:09 GMT
> I only used 3-4u of N (depending) and 18u of Lantus a night
> Now pumping, my total basal for the day is 17.4u -- and usually
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> lol now, I have a bad day pain wise, lol and all bets are off and
> it's a test every 2hrs just to make sure I don't peak over to 300

Sorry to hear you are struggling with chronic pain.  Been there and done
that and still aren't "out of the woods" yet, myself.  One wrong move
and my slightly bulging cervical disks make their displeasure known.

dave
Chris J. - 01 Feb 2006 20:10 GMT
>> I only used 3-4u of N (depending) and 18u of Lantus a night
>> Now pumping, my total basal for the day is 17.4u -- and usually
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>dave

Sorry to hear that you have both have that to deal with. IMHO, that
must be one of the most difficult things to endure.
Cheri - 01 Feb 2006 20:17 GMT
Ditto that. It must be grueling. :-(

--
Cheri

Chris J. wrote in message (speaking about RK and Daves chronic pain.)
<0a52u11m8g0gih22rmaguqb2avo5brv31a@4ax.com>...

>Sorry to hear that you have both have that to deal with. IMHO, that
>must be one of the most difficult things to endure.
RK - 01 Feb 2006 20:59 GMT
| >> I only used 3-4u of N (depending) and 18u of Lantus a night
| >> Now pumping, my total basal for the day is 17.4u -- and usually
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
| Sorry to hear that you have both have that to deal with. IMHO, that
| must be one of the most difficult things to endure.

interesting.. chris did you make up that post saying it was from dave?
no i'm not being nasty, nor a smartass, just shocking that he was civil.
if it's true.. good for him, maybe there is a half of ounce of decency in
him after all.

as to my chronic pain, i've had it for 14yrs and have a consult at the
neurosurgeons first part of march for surgery again.

Signature

----
RK - Animas IR1250 pumper
... having fun with autoimmune diseases NOT!
dx 5/00 - last a1c 6.3

Chris J. - 01 Feb 2006 22:57 GMT
>| >Sorry to hear you are struggling with chronic pain.  Been there and done
>| >that and still aren't "out of the woods" yet, myself.  One wrong move
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>|
>interesting.. chris did you make up that post saying it was from dave?

No, RK, I would not do that. Believe me, I'm not inclined to stir
fires around here, even as a joke. I also checked the headers, before
replying, and as near as I can tell it is from the same IP.  

Here is a link to the google archives, showing the post.
http://tinyurl.com/9wnrx

OK, I do confess that when I saw it, one of my motives in replying was
so that you would see it, due to the nature of it. I had hopes that
fences could be mended. So, I quoted it in full, and changed nothing.

>as to my chronic pain, i've had it for 14yrs and have a consult at the
>neurosurgeons first part of march for surgery again.

Oh, no, I'm extremely sorry to hear that. I hope it's minor surgery,
but I suspect not... Please keep us posted Reisa, and take care!
RK - 02 Feb 2006 00:08 GMT
Signature

----
RK - Animas IR1250 pumper
... having fun with autoimmune diseases NOT!
dx 5/00 - last a1c 6.3

| >| >Sorry to hear you are struggling with chronic pain.  Been there and done
| >| >that and still aren't "out of the woods" yet, myself.  One wrong move
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
| Oh, no, I'm extremely sorry to hear that. I hope it's minor surgery,
| but I suspect not... Please keep us posted Reisa, and take care!

thanks.
Ma¢k - 02 Feb 2006 02:41 GMT
>| >| >I had no luck delaying a meal when I was on MDI.  Too much Lente or
>| >| >Ultralente floating around in me. :)
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>I only used 3-4u of N (depending) and 18u of Lantus a night
>Now pumping, my total basal for the day is 17.4u -- and usually

my total basal is 27.35 units now.

Doc says it will probably go up a few more units when we get these
last 2 problem time periods tweaked correctly.

>16-20u for my bolus, depending upon how much I eat.. I usually
>have about 55-60gm per meal. -- with that, usually keeps me
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>it's a test every 2hrs just to make sure I don't peak over to 300
>
Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Ma¢k - 31 Jan 2006 07:36 GMT
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 05:16:00 GMT, Alexander Arnakis
<invalid@address.none> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>>I, personally don't mind how pumps are nowdays.. I test and push a
>>few buttons and away I go.. no fuss anymore.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>deniability. Besides that, I've worked out a very neat system so that
>I can carry my insulin and testing items with me unobtrusively.

the infusion sets have a "disconnect" so that you are not actually
tethered to the pump.  You can disconnect for bathing, swimming,
sports, intimate moments.

and as far as unobtrusive goes, pumping is far more discreet than
injecting via a syringe.  

Pumping is not for everyone that it can benefit.  Sometimes for very
practical reasons such as lifestyle extremes.  But mostly because of
the psychological hang-ups that some people can't get beyond.

This is why anyone considering going to a pump, who has concerns like
yours really should work with an endocrinologist who staffs a pump
trainer and keeps at least pump on hand for training (loaner pump).
You use this pump for at least 3 to 6 days pumping sterile saline.
You go through all the daily routine of a pumper.  Loading, priming,
inserting infusion set, programming pump for basal rates, bolusing for
meals and corrections. Going through at least 1 preferably 2 set
changes.  You get your actual insulin during this time via MDI using
syringes.  But you still use the pump as if it were loaded with
insulin.  This way you will get hands on experience with what it is
actually like to pump insulin 24/7.  You can decide if you can make
the adjustment to pumping without investing $5500.00 or more of your
or your insurance company's money that you will not be able to get
refunded if you change your mind a couple of months down the road.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Kurt - 31 Jan 2006 08:16 GMT
> On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 05:16:00 GMT, Alexander Arnakis
> <invalid@address.none> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> or your insurance company's money that you will not be able to get
> refunded if you change your mind a couple of months down the road.

Good advice.  I've spoken with my endo on more than one occasion about
switching to a pump and he's pretty much left that decision up to me.
In my case, I chose to stick with MDI because I have very good control
with it and my regime offers me control and flexibility.  My last a1c
was 5.7 and my endo calls me a "human pump."  But, if my control was
not so good I wouldn't hesitate to use a pump because good control
should supersede any psychological stigma one might have about using
one.  Education is key.  One needs to understand the benefits of using
a device like a pump and how effective it can be to achieving good
control when MDI just isn't cutting it.  Why guess and worry when there
is so much information available about what using a pump would mean.
>From the people who post here who are pumpers, I have learned that it's
no big thang...in terms of being an intrusion into daily living.

Best,
Kurt
Ma¢k - 30 Jan 2006 06:06 GMT
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 03:46:02 GMT, Alexander Arnakis
<invalid@address.none> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 01:11:24 -0500, Ma¶k
><stopthespam@shootspammers.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>This may be a case where the "cure" is worse than the disease.

not in the case of the islet transplants.  they are not done with
another organ transplant and the drug combination used is less severe
than those used for a full organ transplant.

but personally, I would still not want either one unless it was
actually needed to survive.  But that's just a personal choice.

>>as for the pump you describe.  Their is one already developed, and an
>>insulin developed specifically for it.  The only short fall is the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>etc.), and developing a closed feedback system so that the meter
>readings control the pump.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Ma¢k - 28 Jan 2006 03:22 GMT
>can't use Lantus in a pump, defeats the purpose of pumping.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>vial when I get down that low, and yes, I've tried it with various vials
>I still get the same results.

When I was pumping with the minimed 508 I started with humalog and
switched to novolog.  When I switched to novolog the chronic diarrhea
I had at the time cleared up.  Now I am using novolog in the deltec
pump.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Ma¢k - 28 Jan 2006 03:19 GMT
>>>I know that MDI allows more freedom to eat whatever you want, but I
>>>wanted to know if anyone out there uses long-acting insulin and a
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>_____________________________________________
>http://www.healthdiabeticsoftware.com/  Free

before using starting this pump this past tuesday I was injecting with
Lantus, Humulin N and Novolog.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Hi_Therre - 28 Jan 2006 13:01 GMT
>>>>I know that MDI allows more freedom to eat whatever you want, but I
>>>>wanted to know if anyone out there uses long-acting insulin and a
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>before using starting this pump this past tuesday I was injecting with
>Lantus, Humulin N and Novolog.

Why can't the pump be made to handle Lantus and Novolog in separate
reservoirs with individual metering and control systems?  I think it
would be better for you.
Ma¢k - 28 Jan 2006 17:58 GMT
>>before using starting this pump this past tuesday I was injecting with
>>Lantus, Humulin N and Novolog.
>
>Why can't the pump be made to handle Lantus and Novolog in separate
>reservoirs with individual metering and control systems?  I think it
>would be better for you.

with a pump there is no need for any long acting insulin as you get
micro doses of fast acting insulin all day long to replace it.  I can
program the pump to deliver a dose as small as .05 units per hour or
half hour or any increment above that.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

RK - 28 Jan 2006 19:08 GMT
| >>before using starting this pump this past tuesday I was injecting with
| >>Lantus, Humulin N and Novolog.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
| program the pump to deliver a dose as small as .05 units per hour or
| half hour or any increment above that.

I had to check on mine, but I can get down to .025/U per hour --

Mack, what infusion set are you using? This is the one I've been using
and its really easy and compact.  It fits any pump with a Luer lock
connection.

http://www.animascorp.com/products/pr_infusion.shtml

RK
Ma¢k - 28 Jan 2006 20:20 GMT
>| >>before using starting this pump this past tuesday I was injecting with
>| >>Lantus, Humulin N and Novolog.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>RK

I started with the one I sent for your friend.  But stopped using that
when this one came out:

http://minimed.com/products/infusionsets/quickset.html

This is very similar to the one you are using.  But the inserter
device is separate from the infusion set and not disposable.

I had 5 boxes of these left, so stayed with it when I switched to the
cozmore pump.  At the time I placed my first order with smith
medical/deltec they only had a sil type infusion set with no inserter
device.  Their new set is due out now and by the time I get ready to
reorder supplies it will be available.  

The good thing is, if I don't like the new sets from deltec I can
order any company's infusion sets and my insurance company will cover
them.  All I need to do is make sure they use a standard luer lock.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

RK - 28 Jan 2006 20:27 GMT
| >| >>before using starting this pump this past tuesday I was injecting with
| >| >>Lantus, Humulin N and Novolog.
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
| order any company's infusion sets and my insurance company will cover
| them.  All I need to do is make sure they use a standard luer lock.

Yep, looks very simular.

Yeah, that is a good thing with your insurance co.  Mine is like that also.
I can use any infusion set and my ins. co will pay for it -- they do need
a prescription from my doctor for them, but thats not a problem, all I have
to do is call the endo's nurse and set gets one and faxes it over the same
day usually, as with anything that I need.

Glad you're happy.. how you coming with learning the new features? And
what do you like best about it?

RK.
Ma¢k - 29 Jan 2006 17:49 GMT
>Glad you're happy.. how you coming with learning the new features? And
>what do you like best about it?
>
>RK.

The Deltec CoZmore has all of the same features as the other pumps,
although named differently.

The biggest differences are in the BG meter integration and the pump's
ability to calculate meal boluses, correction boluses for the pumper
as well as determine how much insulin is actually still on board and
for how long from the last bolus plus the basal (IOB insulin on
board).

You sit down with your endo and pre program you insulin and carb
ratios and fine tune them over the first few days/weeks of using the
pump.  From there the pump does almost everything for you greatly
eliminating human errors.

We've talked in here about needing to know our ratios in order to
calculate insulin doses and how much to eat in a single meal.  With
this pump you take your pre meal BG reading and say it comes up 75
mg/dl and you are going to eat 45 grams of carbs in the meal.  Your
target BG is 100 mg/dl.  And your correction ration is 30.  The math
would look like this on paper 100 - 75 + 45 / 30 = 2.33 units of
insulin  Try to remember that in your head when you are out and about
with friends and family and then an hour and a half to 2 hours later
remembering to check your post meal BG to see if you got your carb
count right and determine if you need a correction bolus.  With a
little practice most pumpers have no problems with this.  However some
of have multiple ratios through out the day, due to keeping non
standard hours and having complications such as gastroparesis.  

And depending on what we eat we have to pay particular attention to
extended boluses (boluses that are split and or spread out over an
extended period of time) to cover foods like pizza.

With this pump you can pre program some meal boluses for specific
types and amounts of foods using the included software (IR port ships
separately).  So if you like having pizza on Friday at a specific
place and always get the same thing  and amount you can program a
personal meal bolus and simply select it when you have that meal.  Or
you can do the same if you always eat the same thing for say breakfast
or lunch.  This works great for those people who always eat the same
things or at least the same amounts for each meal.

Because of how fast novolog works and how slow food will be digested,
especially for those of us with gastroparesis we need to know how much
insulin we have in our systems and how long it's activity curve will
be so as to avoid over lapping boluses.  This pump takes that into
account and displays this reading.  You have test and correctly
establish how long your insulin will stay in your system.  That's
spelled out in the how to section at the insulin pumpers web site if
anyone is interested.  

Say for example that your insulin stays in your system for a total of
3 hours.  You take a meal bolus of 4 units at noon and then at 1 you
decide to have a late dessert and take another bolus for that then at
1.5 hours past that you check your BG and find that you need to take a
correction bolus because you are a bit high.  The pump will calculate
your correction bolus based on your correction ratio plus the insulin
you still have on board from your previous bolus'.  

One of the things I always hated about diabetic log books was that
they always recorded times in standard 12 hour clock settings during
day light times only.  Lots of times even the computer generated logs
only recorded times during the day.  This pumps software allows for
the data to be transferred to the computer and displayed/printed in a
log book format in either a 12 or 24 hour clock and the data fields
are not pre locked to the standard day time hours.  For example
breakfast at 8 am, lunch at noon and dinner at 6 pm.

There are a couple of draw backs.  The screen is small and some of the
text on some of the menus is small.  So when I have to go in and use
them away from the computer I use a magnifying glass to read them.
Most people won't have this problem, but I've been dealing with some
vision loss for a while now.  And the audible alarm is too soft.

A lot of people complained about the minimed's clicking and motor
whirring when delivering boluses.  This pump is literally silent.
When this one delivers insulin, you can press it to your ear and still
hear nothing.  Some people I have spoken with were very self conscious
about that noise.

Deltec's customer support so far has been the difference between night
and day when compared with minimed.  No long ques, no arguing about
bills, no having to track down someone who only gave you a first name.
Deltec's people give you their whole name and extension and tell you
to call them back directly or they call you back directly.  And when
they say they are going to call you back at a certain time, they do
it.  Granted most of my calls were in setting up the initial order,
filing the paperwork etc, but because of the way my insurance and
deductible work I have to deal with the billing part directly,
especially in January when this yearly deductible starts all over
every year.  But these people have been great.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

RK - 29 Jan 2006 19:14 GMT
| >Glad you're happy.. how you coming with learning the new features? And
| >what do you like best about it?
[quoted text clipped - 91 lines]
| especially in January when this yearly deductible starts all over
| every year.  But these people have been great.

Thats great! I'm glad you're liking it.  From what you described, having
the meter and pump interact is about the only thing different between
the Deltec and the Animas.  I did notice that the Deltec uses regular
batteries
did they say how long they were suppose to last?  Mine uses lithium and
since
starting with this pump May 5th, I'm just about to change my second battery.

With your audio alarm being low, why not just use the vibrate?

Hope you don't have any issues with your pump.

RK
Ma¢k - 30 Jan 2006 05:11 GMT
>Thats great! I'm glad you're liking it.  From what you described, having
>the meter and pump interact is about the only thing different between
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>since
>starting with this pump May 5th, I'm just about to change my second battery.

one "alkaline" AAA battery is supposed to last 1 month.  But the
vibrate mode is supposed to use up the battery faster.

>With your audio alarm being low, why not just use the vibrate?

I'm switching to vibrate mode tomorrow to see if I like it better.

>Hope you don't have any issues with your pump.
>
>RK

The alerts that I get the most use out of are reminders to re-test the
BG after a specified time if I am hypo or hyper.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

RK - 30 Jan 2006 05:35 GMT
| >Thats great! I'm glad you're liking it.  From what you described, having
| >the meter and pump interact is about the only thing different between
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
| one "alkaline" AAA battery is supposed to last 1 month.  But the
| vibrate mode is supposed to use up the battery faster.

Yeah what they said abt mine too.. But thats all I use is the vibrate.
The sound feature doesn't do me any good.  They said I should get
8 weeks out of the audio mode and 6 weeks with vibrate, but I've been
getting 8-10weeks out of the vibrate mode.  It's not bad, walmart has the
lithium batteries 2pk for $7.49.

| >With your audio alarm being low, why not just use the vibrate?
|
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
| The alerts that I get the most use out of are reminders to re-test the
| BG after a specified time if I am hypo or hyper.
Vicki Beausoleil - 30 Jan 2006 12:58 GMT
> | >Thats great! I'm glad you're liking it.  From what you described, having
> | >the meter and pump interact is about the only thing different between
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> getting 8-10weeks out of the vibrate mode.  It's not bad, walmart has the
> lithium batteries 2pk for $7.49.
snip

I put a new lithium battery in this pump when I got it Oct. 6. Haven't
changed it yet. I change batteries as soon as the readout drops a bar, I
was told lithium batteries keep full charge a long time but once it
starts to go down, it goes down quickly. I use the backlight a lot.

I don't know how your 508 was on batteries, Mack, but my pump trainer
told me the Minimed 7** pumps eat batteries compared to Animas and Deltec.

Really glad to hear you like your pump.

Vicki
Ma¢k - 30 Jan 2006 17:57 GMT
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:58:03 -0500, Vicki Beausoleil
<VBeausoleil@netscape.net> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>I put a new lithium battery in this pump when I got it Oct. 6. Haven't
>changed it yet. I change batteries as soon as the readout drops a bar, I
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Vicki

The only place I could get replacement batteries for the minimed 508
other than minimed was Target.  No one else carried the right size.
Not even the local drug stores with their large displays of
replacement batteries for hearing aides and such.  They were actually
cheaper to buy from Target too.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

RK - 30 Jan 2006 18:05 GMT
| On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:58:03 -0500, Vicki Beausoleil
| <VBeausoleil@netscape.net> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
| replacement batteries for hearing aides and such.  They were actually
| cheaper to buy from Target too.

Really? that's strange.. I could buy the 375 batteries anyplace around
here, walmart had them.. 2 for $4.95 usually, but since it took 3.. lol
I always had to buy 2 packs and changed them out every 2-3 weeks.

Signature

----
RK - Animas IR1250 pumper
... having fun with autoimmune diseases NOT!
dx 5/00 - last a1c 6.3

Elizabeth  Blake - 31 Jan 2006 04:16 GMT
> I don't know how your 508 was on batteries, Mack, but my pump trainer told
> me the Minimed 7** pumps eat batteries compared to Animas and Deltec.

I have a 715.  I don't use the vibrate alarm, but I use the backlight a lot.
When a BG reminder alarm goes off, I often can't test right away and don't
want to clear it (in case I forget to check) and sometimes it will go off
(every 3 minutes) for an hour by the time I check my BG.    An Energizer AAA
bettery lasts me about 7 weeks, and they're relatively cheap and easy to
find.  I've never tried any other brand in my pump.

--
Liz
David - 31 Jan 2006 04:42 GMT
Elizabeth Blake wrote:

>>I don't know how your 508 was on batteries, Mack, but my pump trainer told
>>me the Minimed 7** pumps eat batteries compared to Animas and Deltec.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> --
> Liz

Elizabeth, did you learn the hard way that Duracells don't work well in
the 715, as per MM's instructions?  I argued with them when I got a
battery failure message on my 515 a few days after inserting a new
Duracell.  They INSISTED it was the fault of the battery and I went
around and around with them about that.  Turns out they were right; I
kept track of a few battery changes and found I'd get no more than 6
days out of a duracell, but an Energizer goes about 5-6 weeks. Live and
learn!

Dave
Elizabeth  Blake - 02 Feb 2006 02:02 GMT
> Elizabeth, did you learn the hard way that Duracells don't work well in
> the 715, as per MM's instructions?  I argued with them when I got a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Dave

I decided to just take MM's (and my CDE's) word that Energizers really do
work better, so I never tried anything else. &nbs