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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / January 2006

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America attacked and Bush does nothing

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Chief - 25 Jan 2006 16:44 GMT
Amazing, a convoy of military vehicles cross the Mexican border and the
state has to respond because the Federal Government doesn't do anything -
nothing. Wonder what part of the job of President does Bush intend to do?
Wasn't defend the borders one of his responsibilities. The more Bush
remains the more it looks like the repugs elected the most incompetent
a.shole possible.

This has to be another first. The first crossing of our borders by a
hostile military force since when? The last time Mexico did it?

What a laugh. The Piece of sh.t President is not even protecting our
borders from the armed forces of a foreign country and the stupid repugs
feel more secure - what a laugh. Must be that creationist 'god' barrier
they are depending on. What a laugh.

A friend of mine at Fort Hood said the first they heard of it was on CNN.
That really says a bunch about Bush's Homeland security department. It
took a bunch of local cops to turn them back - what a laugh.

I wonder, maybe some of the drivers have a whitehouse pass or photos of
the president and them shaking hands.

Gee, this week has been a tough one for the repugs.

E-mails proving Bush Knew New Orleans was going to flood while his face
is caught saying nobody knew.

Photos of Abramoff and Bush while the dumbshit puts on his best Alfred E.
Newman look and says "Abramoff who?"

Mean while The Iranians are building nukes, North Korea already has a
bunch, and a new study by the repug pentagon says the Army is going to
break if the Iraq war continue for much longer. That means either Bush
will have to "Cut and Run" like he likes to pin on democrats or start a
draft.

I sure hope it's a draft. I can't wait to hear the crying from the repugs
when their a.s or their children's has to go to a worthless war.

But, given the Bush dislike of wars that draft the sons of his
contributors I'll bet it's "Cut and Run" he will choose but the repugs
will call it 'advancing to the rear'. What a laugh

Gee, looks like the Plame investigation is expanding to the reasons for
the Iraqi war and the Abramsoff investigation has barely started.

The stonewalling of the Katrina investigation seems to be pissing off
even some repugs and promises to be a good read in the future.

All in All, a wonderful week.

Only way to top this off would be a world wide Kool Aid sponsored rapture
event. Hell I'd contribute enough to pay for some body bags or ('personal
god vehicles') PGV's as I like to think of them.


David - 25 Jan 2006 16:54 GMT
snippage

Chief, I'm surprised by your adding political rhetoric to this DM NG.
As much as I've enjoyed conversing with you in the past, rest assured
you will be added to my KF.  (Not that you probably care, but I like to
inform plonkees so that they don't waste time responding to me in the
future).  I consider giving notice a courtesy.  Sorry you've decided to
post such drivel on this NG.  take care.

Dave
Wild Monkshood - 25 Jan 2006 16:59 GMT
> snippage
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> future).  I consider giving notice a courtesy.  Sorry you've decided to
> post such drivel on this NG.  take care.

    I'm assuming it was intended to be posted to another group.

Wild Monkshood

> Dave
David - 25 Jan 2006 18:00 GMT
>> snippage
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>> Dave

I'm hoping that's the case!  I'd miss him, but then again...

Dave
Grandpa Chuck - 25 Jan 2006 19:38 GMT
>    I'm assuming it was intended to be posted to another group.
>
>Wild Monkshood

I wondered the same thing, or at the very least why it doesn't have
the handy dandy little "OT - " in the front of the subject line.

OTOH, as soon as I read it I wanted to shout out, "RIGHT ON CHIEF!!"
Signature

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

The following information is given with the utmost respect
for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the
current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/
The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 24, 2006 is 2,237.
United Kingdom = 98
Other = 103  
Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000
according to President Bush - probably many more.

Chief - 25 Jan 2006 22:21 GMT
>> snippage
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>> Dave

Yes - sorry. My brother and I mess with each other in another news group -
I try to pull his chain when I can.
Chief - 25 Jan 2006 22:20 GMT
David <David@invalid.com> wrote in news:vs-dnb6j-
LfFMErenZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@comcast.com:

> snippage
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Dave

It was meant to another - sorry.
Joe - 25 Jan 2006 18:31 GMT
> Amazing, a convoy of military vehicles cross the Mexican border and the
> state has to respond because the Federal Government doesn't do anything -
> nothing.

These were not Mexican soldiers," Aguilar told a news conference.

"It is known that these are drug traffickers using military uniforms

 and they were not even regulation military uniforms"

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/01/25/mexico.border.ap/index.html

Signature

Joe W
T2 Nov '05
30mg Actos,3gr Cinnamon, Diet(100 carbs) & 3 mile walk(everyday) &
BowFlex(3x a week)

*****Diabetes, be proactive, not reactive.*****

If we impeach George Bush, who will replace him?
Vice-President Dick Chaney will replace him.
Think before you speak!
That will solve all you Bush bashers problems won't it.

David - 25 Jan 2006 20:09 GMT
>> Amazing, a convoy of military vehicles cross the Mexican border and
>> the state has to respond because the Federal Government doesn't do
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/01/25/mexico.border.ap/index.html

PLONK for responding to OT drivel. this belongs in a different NG. So do
you. Gawd, I love filters!

Dave
Joe - 25 Jan 2006 20:42 GMT
> PLONK for responding to OT drivel. this belongs in a different NG. So do
> you. Gawd, I love filters!
>
> Dave

Did you PLONK yourself for replying too?   ROFL!

Signature

Joe W
T2 Nov '05
30mg Actos,3gr Cinnamon, Diet(100 carbs) & 3 mile walk(everyday) &
BowFlex(3x a week)

*****Diabetes, be proactive, not reactive.*****

If we impeach George Bush, who will replace him?  Vice-President Dick
Chaney will replace him.
That will make the Bush-bashers happy.

Grandpa Chuck - 25 Jan 2006 23:36 GMT
>> PLONK for responding to OT drivel. this belongs in a different NG. So do
>> you. Gawd, I love filters!
>>
>> Dave
>
>Did you PLONK yourself for replying too?   ROFL!

Joe, David thinks the "PLONK" is a club that you can use on anyone he
wants. Of course there is no real way to know whether he really puts
anyone in his KF. When it comes right down to it, who really cares?

Signature

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

The following information is given with the utmost respect
for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the
current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/
The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 24, 2006 is 2,237.
United Kingdom = 98
Other = 103  
Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000
according to President Bush - probably many more.

Chief - 25 Jan 2006 22:23 GMT
>>> Amazing, a convoy of military vehicles cross the Mexican border and
>>> the state has to respond because the Federal Government doesn't do
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Dave

I'm really sorry. I thought this was going elsewhere.  
David - 26 Jan 2006 02:53 GMT
>  I'm really sorry. I thought this was going elsewhere.  

Glad to hear it was just an error!  I'd miss seeing your posts here that
don't contain the political "stuff".  (I'm trying to not comment on the
content, other than it's inappropriate for this NG).

I didn't KF earlier after reading what Wild said about your post going
to the wrong NG.

Good to have you around, Gene...er...Chief! :)

Dave
Chief - 26 Jan 2006 03:50 GMT
>>  I'm really sorry. I thought this was going elsewhere.  
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Dave

Good to be around.

I agree the group is good as it is and needs no spicy sauce to raise the Bg
or the dander.

Hey, a question about insulin. I read the normal paperwork that came with
the two insulins but didn't see much to worry about. For side effects it
mentions inject site problems but for the rest it pretty much lists just
hypos as the major side effect. Do you know of any others? The reason I
asked is that I have become very forgetful lately. Stupid things like
missing the 24 hour injection more often than not. That's not like me.
Chris J. - 26 Jan 2006 07:12 GMT
>Hey, a question about insulin. I read the normal paperwork that came with
>the two insulins but didn't see much to worry about. For side effects it
>mentions inject site problems but for the rest it pretty much lists just
>hypos as the major side effect. Do you know of any others? The reason I
>asked is that I have become very forgetful lately. Stupid things like
>missing the 24 hour injection more often than not. That's not like me.

Chief, are you on statins by any chance? Those are known to have that
side effect in some cases.
Chief - 26 Jan 2006 12:26 GMT
> Chief, are you on statins by any chance? Those are known to have that
> side effect in some cases.

Yes, the VA doc put me on simvastatin. I'm tossing that junk out today if I
can remember:) Thnks for mentioning that.
Chris J. - 27 Jan 2006 05:02 GMT
>> Chief, are you on statins by any chance? Those are known to have that
>> side effect in some cases.
>
>Yes, the VA doc put me on simvastatin. I'm tossing that junk out today if I
>can remember:) Thnks for mentioning that.

Whoa! Please let some of the more knowledgable here weigh in, or
better yet a doc.

However, Statins have a plethora of side effects, and not all are in
the prescribing information.  Simvastatin (Zocor), for example, is
known to cause tendinitis and joint problems, and that is not in it's
prescribing information (same for mental effects).

Simvastatin binds to human plasma proteins, and does cross the
blood-brain barrier.

Just in case your Doc or pharmacist did not give you the prescribing
information, it's here:
http://www.zocor.com/simvastatin/zocor/consumer/product_information/pi/index.jsp

I note with interest that the only brain/psychological item they list
in the study is "headache".

I found this set of user experiences interesting:
http://www.medications.com/go/se/Zocor

I've done a little research on statins in the past, due to my Mother
being on them and having mental foggyness. She tried two different
statins, and had no better results, so stopped taking them. Since that
time, her mental situation has cleared.
Chief - 27 Jan 2006 10:21 GMT
>>> Chief, are you on statins by any chance? Those are known to have
>>> that side effect in some cases.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> statins, and had no better results, so stopped taking them. Since that
> time, her mental situation has cleared.

Chris, My cholesterol was ok on the last labs. The doc that prescribed it
wasn't my diabetes endo but a VA doctor.   I was going to wait before
taking the pills he gave me until I saw the endo but went ahead after
reading the propaganda at the Zocor site. So I think waiting a couple
weeks until I see my diabetes doc can't hurt and might be the best thing
to do anyway.

Don't worry. I'm not a 'fly by the seat of your pants' type of guy.
Chris J. - 28 Jan 2006 01:46 GMT
>Chris, My cholesterol was ok on the last labs. The doc that prescribed it
>wasn't my diabetes endo but a VA doctor.

Which begs the question, WHY did he prescribe it?  

> I was going to wait before
>taking the pills he gave me until I saw the endo but went ahead after
>reading the propaganda at the Zocor site. So I think waiting a couple
>weeks until I see my diabetes doc can't hurt and might be the best thing
>to do anyway.

My Doc tried to put me on Statins, but I refused. I've read too many
horror stories about side effects, some permanent.
David - 28 Jan 2006 02:25 GMT
>>Chris, My cholesterol was ok on the last labs. The doc that prescribed it
>>wasn't my diabetes endo but a VA doctor.
>
> Which begs the question, WHY did he prescribe it?  

So he can eat ice cream.  didn't your momma teach you anything, Chris??

Dave
Wes Groleau - 28 Jan 2006 02:38 GMT
>>Chris, My cholesterol was ok on the last labs. The doc that prescribed it
>>wasn't my diabetes endo but a VA doctor.
>
> Which begs the question, WHY did he prescribe it?

A suggestion: when an off-topic thread strays back ON topic,
not only remove the OT, change the subject line.

Signature

Wes Groleau
  ----
  The man who reads nothing at all is better educated
  than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.
                            -- Thomas Jefferson

Chris J. - 28 Jan 2006 03:37 GMT
>>>Chris, My cholesterol was ok on the last labs. The doc that prescribed it
>>>wasn't my diabetes endo but a VA doctor.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>A suggestion: when an off-topic thread strays back ON topic,
>not only remove the OT, change the subject line.

Thanks, Wes.. Good point!!!

I guess thread drift doesn't just run through ASD, it gallops... :-)
W.M.McKee - 28 Jan 2006 04:06 GMT
>>>Chris, My cholesterol was ok on the last labs. The doc that prescribed it
>>>wasn't my diabetes endo but a VA doctor.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>A suggestion: when an off-topic thread strays back ON topic,
>not only remove the OT, change the subject line.

Did you know, Wes, that C.S. Lewis said he never read newspapers...
they were too much of a distaction from what was really important!

Will, T2
Wes Groleau - 29 Jan 2006 01:25 GMT
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 02:38:10 GMT, Wes Groleau
>>A suggestion: when an off-topic thread strays back ON topic,
>>not only remove the OT, change the subject line.
>
> Did you know, Wes, that C.S. Lewis said he never read newspapers...
> they were too much of a distaction from what was really important!

I didn't know that, but he's right.  :-)

Signature

Wes Groleau

Truth often suffers more from the heat of its defenders
than from the arguments of its opposers.
                       -- William Penn

Nicky - 28 Jan 2006 09:16 GMT
> My Doc tried to put me on Statins, but I refused. I've read too many
> horror stories about side effects, some permanent.

Mine's trying to do that to me, too, even though my cholesterol levels are
fine. Grrr.

Nicky.

Signature

A1c 10.5/5.4/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/73/72Kg

W.M.McKee - 28 Jan 2006 13:03 GMT
>> My Doc tried to put me on Statins, but I refused. I've read too many
>> horror stories about side effects, some permanent.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Nicky.

What is you cholesterol level Nicky?

Will, T2
Nicky - 28 Jan 2006 20:47 GMT
>>> My Doc tried to put me on Statins, but I refused. I've read too many
>>> horror stories about side effects, some permanent.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> What is you cholesterol level Nicky?

These are results from July - I've had another set that were not so good,
but still very healthy, but I've filed them somewhere! It was in any case
after these results that the doc wanted me to go on a statin. I wish they'd
look on test strips as a preventative, and leave my head alone!

Total chol..3.81 mmol/l.........147
Trig........0.78..... [.3-1.7]...69
HDL.........1.29......[1.3-2]....50
LDL.........2.16.................83
Trigs/HDL....0.6...............1.38

Nicky.

Signature

A1c 10.5/5.4/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/73/72Kg

W.M.McKee - 28 Jan 2006 20:57 GMT
>>>> My Doc tried to put me on Statins, but I refused. I've read too many
>>>> horror stories about side effects, some permanent.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>Nicky.

Well, Nicky, I am no doctor, but your results look fine to me. I have
read somewhere, though, that some doctors are pushing their patients
to get total cholesterol down to 120, or so....  Also, the relative
balance of all the factors is important.

You might want to get a second opinion, if you have doubts. I know a
lot of people who have had problems with statins.

Will, T2
Alan S - 28 Jan 2006 22:55 GMT
>>>>> My Doc tried to put me on Statins, but I refused. I've read too many
>>>>> horror stories about side effects, some permanent.
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
>Will, T2

Fine? To me they look bloody brilliant. I have to use a
statin (lipitor20mg) to get my LDL into the good area but
the rest are similar. Why any doctor would suggest a statin
for those numbers is beyond me - particularly when the
trig/HDL ratio is so good.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Dan Abel - 28 Jan 2006 23:59 GMT
> These are results from July - I've had another set that were not so good,
> but still very healthy, but I've filed them somewhere! It was in any case
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> LDL.........2.16.................83
> Trigs/HDL....0.6...............1.38

Welcome to the New World!  Your LDL levels were fine...last year.  My
LDL levels were fine...last year.  Now they aren't any more.

I'm not arguing with my doctor, he is just passing on the latest and the
greatest.  Still, it's discouraging that once you learn the numbers,
then they change them on you.

According to my doctor, for a diabetic, the new LDL guideline is less
than 70!  I have been on statins for years, but had to switch to a new,
more powerful one.

Signature

Dan Abel
dabel@sonic.net
Petaluma, California, USA

Nicky - 29 Jan 2006 12:17 GMT
> According to my doctor, for a diabetic, the new LDL guideline is less
> than 70!  I have been on statins for years, but had to switch to a new,
> more powerful one.

But what if most of your LDL is the good, fluffy kind?! Makes no sense to
me. I think that's something else they're treating in isolation, not
holistically. I read the reports that say C-reactive protein (i.e.
inflammation) is a better marker for heart disease than LDL levels, and keep
popping my baby aspirin and reading Quentin's nutrition posts!

Nicky.

Signature

A1c 10.5/5.4/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/73/72Kg

Peter C - 31 Jan 2006 00:01 GMT
> These are results from July - I've had another set that were not so good,
> but still very healthy, but I've filed them somewhere! It was in any case
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> LDL.........2.16.................83
> Trigs/HDL....0.6...............1.38

On Dec 2 2005 you reported these figures ( Now) from a recent test ...

Total chol..July 3.81 mmol/l   Now 4.5  (was 3.3 a couple of years ago)

Trig........July 0.78        Now 0.8
HDL.........July 1.29      Now 1.3
LDL.........July 2.16      Now 2.8

HTH
Nicky - 31 Jan 2006 08:55 GMT
>> These are results from July - I've had another set that were not so good,
>> but still very healthy, but I've filed them somewhere! It was in any case
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> HDL.........July 1.29      Now 1.3
> LDL.........July 2.16      Now 2.8

Thanks, Peter - I've since found the paper copy, but it's useful to have an
electronic set as well! But like I say, it was the earlier results that
prompted my GP to start talking statins.

Nicky.

Signature

A1c 10.5/5.4/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/73/72Kg

Chris J. - 28 Jan 2006 20:55 GMT
>> My Doc tried to put me on Statins, but I refused. I've read too many
>> horror stories about side effects, some permanent.
>
>Mine's trying to do that to me, too, even though my cholesterol levels are
>fine. Grrr.

What is the reasoning being given to you for this?

In my case, my cholesterol is a bit high, but it was down massively
from 3 months prior at Dx. So, I wanted time to see if it continued to
decrease.
Nicky - 28 Jan 2006 21:18 GMT
> What is the reasoning being given to you for this?

quote, All diabetics should be on a statin, unquote. Bah!

Nicky.

Signature

A1c 10.5/5.4/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/73/72Kg

Chris J. - 28 Jan 2006 22:04 GMT
>> What is the reasoning being given to you for this?
>
>quote, All diabetics should be on a statin, unquote. Bah!

Congratulations on keeping your temper.

If any Doc makes an absolute statement like that to me, they had
better be able to follow it up with the "why".

I admit I'm biased on Statins; I've seen way too many reports of side
effects, especially of the psychological variety, to be comfortable
with them unless they are badly needed and all else has failed.  What
really bothers me is that's it's known they are plasma-binding and
cross the blood-brain barrier with great efficiency, yet I can't find
any data indicating any study was done on the psychological effects of
the things.
Mr. Gantlet - 28 Jan 2006 23:25 GMT
I was curious as to what those that did many of the studies on the subject
of statins and diabetes had to say.
so I went to www.diabetes.org and typed statins in the search box in the
upper right corner.

it led me to 11 different links to the results of many studies.

or you can press the really really long link.

http://google.diabetes.org/search?q=Statins&ie=&site=my_collection&restrict=main
_site%7Cstore%7Cvgs&output=xml_no_dtd&client=my_collection&btnG.y=0&btnG.y=0&lr=
&btnG.x=0&btnG.x=0&proxystylesheet=my_collection&oe=&Search.x=2&Search.y=9


Signature

Tom
Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts...
Your American Diabetes Association
http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp
the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards
http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index

ADA's Diabetes Learning Center
http://diabetes.org/about-diabetes.jsp
Joslin Center Beginner's Guide.
http://www.joslin.org/Beginners_guide.asp
Pictures of My motorcycle and I think 2 of my doggies.
http://www.adventurseofvtx1300c.com.50megs.com/photo.html

Chris J. - 29 Jan 2006 00:20 GMT
>I was curious as to what those that did many of the studies on the subject
>of statins and diabetes had to say.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>http://google.diabetes.org/search?q=Statins&ie=&site=my_collection&restrict=main
_site%7Cstore%7Cvgs&output=xml_no_dtd&client=my_collection&btnG.y=0&btnG.y=0&lr=
&btnG.x=0&btnG.x=0&proxystylesheet=my_collection&oe=&Search.x=2&Search.y=9

Thanks...

I've read most of these in the past. The problem with many of them is
lack of specifics. For example, they don't mention the cholesterol
levels in the test subjects prior to starting.

I'm especially dubious as there is no mention of the side effects of
statins, especially the psychological ones, or rarer ones such as
tendonitis.

In spite of much searching, I've also yet to find a good explanation
of why Statins should be prescribed for someone without high
cholesterol.
Susan - 29 Jan 2006 00:41 GMT
> Thanks...
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> of why Statins should be prescribed for someone without high
> cholesterol.

I can't find a good reason for them to be prescribed for anyone.
Pantethine has the same benefits with none of the risks.

My mother, who was in perfectly good health, was crippled by statin use,
not by tendonitis, but my muscle myopathy.

Susan
Chris J. - 29 Jan 2006 00:58 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>I can't find a good reason for them to be prescribed for anyone.
>Pantethine has the same benefits with none of the risks.

If my next cholesterol test is high, I'll be trying that too... Thanks
for mentioning this in the past, as that was what spurred me to look
into it.

>My mother, who was in perfectly good health, was crippled by statin use,
>not by tendonitis, but my muscle myopathy.

Susan, I'm very sorry to hear this. Any chance of improvement over
time?

My best wishes to you both.
Susan - 29 Jan 2006 01:20 GMT
> Susan, I'm very sorry to hear this. Any chance of improvement over
> time?
>
> My best wishes to you both.

Thanks, Chris.  She improved over time, once I got her to a
neuromuscular specialist and she spent over a year on high dose
steroids, which also made her miserable.  She's never gotten all her
strength back, though, but the intense pain, weakness and muscle
breakdown is gone.

Irony is that she had great ratios, and that statins aren't to be rx'ed
for those over 75, which she was.  She never needed them, but her doctor
just kept looking at the LDL number and treating it for no good reason.

Susan
Chris J. - 29 Jan 2006 04:52 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>strength back, though, but the intense pain, weakness and muscle
>breakdown is gone.

I'm glad she is doing better...

>Irony is that she had great ratios, and that statins aren't to be rx'ed
>for those over 75, which she was.

I had no idea about the over 75 part... My Mom was Rx'd them at age
77. The most I've seen is the fact that the statin studies rarely
included anyone over 75. Still, I do know the RX guidelines say that
it's for above age 40 in most cases, and my Doc tried to put me on
them last year (when I was 38).

> She never needed them, but her doctor
>just kept looking at the LDL number and treating it for no good reason.

Ugh...

Has there ever been a study done to see how much, exactly, borderline
(LDL levels) patients benefit from statins, and also what the risks
really are? Or are they just basing all this on extrapolations and the
original studies (which didn't even look at the psychological side).?
Alan S - 29 Jan 2006 03:44 GMT
>I can't find a good reason for them to be prescribed for anyone.
>Pantethine has the same benefits with none of the risks.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Susan

I think you've seen the posts where I listed results of my
experiments. I've tried pantethine (absolutely no effect on
me), Pravachol, various supplements, dietary changes - and
the only thing that will keep my LDL in bounds is
lipitor20mg. I wish it was otherwise, but I'm afraid it's
the case for me. YMMV. I don't get any side-effects.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Susan - 29 Jan 2006 15:53 GMT
> I think you've seen the posts where I listed results of my
> experiments. I've tried pantethine (absolutely no effect on
> me),

Alan, what I recall was that you were unable to get pantethine and
substituted pantothenic acid instead.  Not the same thing, no such study
results for PA.

 Pravachol, various supplements, dietary changes - and
> the only thing that will keep my LDL in bounds is
> lipitor20mg. I wish it was otherwise, but I'm afraid it's
> the case for me. YMMV. I don't get any side-effects.

I hope you're able to get your hands on some real pantethine at some
point.  If you have and I missed it, I'll stand corrected.

Susan
Alan S - 29 Jan 2006 21:10 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>Susan
I'm not a chemist, but as I remember it, it was also known
as Vit B5. You're probably right, I'll look into it. But I
do keep in mind that I don't get any of the dreaded side
effects.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Chris J. - 29 Jan 2006 21:32 GMT
>>x-no-archive: yes
>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>do keep in mind that I don't get any of the dreaded side
>effects.

Alan, when did you go on Statins, relative to the onset of your frozen
shoulder problems? The reason I ask is that one of the often
unmentioned side effects experienced by some people is tendonitis and
joint problems.
Alan S - 29 Jan 2006 23:28 GMT
>>>x-no-archive: yes
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>unmentioned side effects experienced by some people is tendonitis and
>joint problems.

Hi Chris

I first started on lipitor around 2000. I had no side
effects; at one time I thought occasional night cramps were
a result but I have actually had problems with those for
many years before that.

It was a blood test for a repeat prescription for the
lipitor that disclosed my CLL in 2002. It was part of the
battery of blood tests from that which diagnosed the type 2.

I started trialling alternatives to lipitor after reading
here. Unfortunately none worked for me, as I mentioned.

I didn't start feeling the FS symptoms in my shoulder until
some time last year, so relating it to the lipitor is
drawing a long bow. My sister had rotator cuff surgery last
year and there may be a hereditary link. It has improved
quite remarkably since I started swimming again, but it's
still painful, particularly when I forget and move my arm
suddenly.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Chris J. - 30 Jan 2006 06:20 GMT
>On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:32:22 -0700, Chris J.

>>Alan, when did you go on Statins, relative to the onset of your frozen
>>shoulder problems? The reason I ask is that one of the often
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>a result but I have actually had problems with those for
>many years before that.

>It was a blood test for a repeat prescription for the
>lipitor that disclosed my CLL in 2002. It was part of the
>battery of blood tests from that which diagnosed the type 2.

Ouch, you certainly got hit by a lot at once. Congratulations on
dealing with it all so well.

>I started trialling alternatives to lipitor after reading
>here. Unfortunately none worked for me, as I mentioned.

If you are having no side effects, IMHO the best policy is "If it
works, don't fix it."

>I didn't start feeling the FS symptoms in my shoulder until
>some time last year, so relating it to the lipitor is
>drawing a long bow.

Indeed. If it was within six months, I'd be suspicious, but over that
long a time period I wouldn't.
Alan S - 30 Jan 2006 07:00 GMT
>>I started trialling alternatives to lipitor after reading
>>here. Unfortunately none worked for me, as I mentioned.
>
>If you are having no side effects, IMHO the best policy is "If it
>works, don't fix it."

My sentiments exactly.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Susan - 29 Jan 2006 23:57 GMT
> I'm not a chemist, but as I remember it, it was also known
> as Vit B5. You're probably right, I'll look into it. But I
> do keep in mind that I don't get any of the dreaded side
> effects.

B5 is not pantethine, it's pantothenic acid.  Not analogous.

Susan
>^;^<  Great-Granny Grayfur - 29 Jan 2006 22:06 GMT
Alan, the lipitor worked great for me except for the side effects.  The muscle pain in my legs
was horrendous, even bringing me to tears sometimes.  If I could tolerate it, I'd surely
continue it, but with the severity of the neuropathy in my legs and feet (irreversible - totally
dead nerves, and all of it caused by dm), I don't think it would be a good idea.  Wonder if my
leg problems contribute to the lipitor side effects?  Maybe they don't have enough of whatever
is needed to combat the lipitor actions.

Billie in AR

: >Susan
:
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
:
: Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
David - 26 Jan 2006 15:00 GMT
>>> I'm really sorry. I thought this was going elsewhere.  
>>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> asked is that I have become very forgetful lately. Stupid things like
> missing the 24 hour injection more often than not. That's not like me.

Well, one side effect of insulin is that it will undoubtedly improve
your health! :)  (Unless taken in unhealthy quantities--too little or
too much).  It's a powerful substance, so learn all you can about it.

dave
Anon - 25 Jan 2006 20:42 GMT
> Amazing, a convoy of military vehicles cross the Mexican border and the
> state has to respond because the Federal Government doesn't do anything -
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
> event. Hell I'd contribute enough to pay for some body bags or ('personal
> god vehicles') PGV's as I like to think of them.

Bush will turn his head and do nothing. He is in bed with Vicente Fox and I
wonder which one is on top.

Anon
defduk - 25 Jan 2006 20:52 GMT
| > Amazing, a convoy of military vehicles cross the Mexican border and the
| > state has to respond because the Federal Government doesn't do anything -
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
|
| Anon

LOL better be Bush.. otherwise he's not in missionary position and thats
against
the USMJ code.. tis tis... thats a court martial offense. shame shame on the
Commander
and Chief.. not leading by example.

RK
defduk - 25 Jan 2006 21:10 GMT
errr i'm going to kill my kid! i just noticed the name on here. UG!
last time I let her set up my system.
Colleen - 25 Jan 2006 21:13 GMT
hehehehehe

Hi, RK.  Nice to see ya posting again.
c

> errr i'm going to kill my kid! i just noticed the name on here. UG!
> last time I let her set up my system.
RK - 25 Jan 2006 21:29 GMT
thx colleen :-)

RK

| hehehehehe
|
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
| > errr i'm going to kill my kid! i just noticed the name on here. UG!
| > last time I let her set up my system.
Colleen - 25 Jan 2006 21:32 GMT
Well I had stopped for awhile because I got really busy again.  Tomorrow I
see my new doc.  She came highly recommended not only by my former doc but
also my NP.  Now I have an entirely female medical team.  My Opthamologist
is female also.  "Bout time.
c

> thx colleen :-)
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> | > errr i'm going to kill my kid! i just noticed the name on here. UG!
> | > last time I let her set up my system.
RK - 25 Jan 2006 21:48 GMT
thats great! yeah, I dont have any men on my medical team
now either. all females -- i find they understand us a bit better
and not so fast to say it's all in our heads lol.

good to have you back also.. i've been swamped too, dealing
with life and such.

rk

| Well I had stopped for awhile because I got really busy again.  Tomorrow I
| see my new doc.  She came highly recommended not only by my former doc but
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
| > | > errr i'm going to kill my kid! i just noticed the name on here. UG!
| > | > last time I let her set up my system.
Colleen - 25 Jan 2006 23:42 GMT
> thats great! yeah, I dont have any men on my medical team
> now either. all females -- i find they understand us a bit better
> and not so fast to say it's all in our heads lol.

Male shrinks are the worst.  My last GP was male and I never, ever felt put
down, talked down to, or in anyway diminished because of my mental illness
or my gender.

> good to have you back also.. i've been swamped too, dealing
> with life and such.

Yeah, sometimes the life stuff gets shunted aside for the such stuff.
Cleaned the studio today.  I usually sneak up on it when I go back to the
easel.  I have other things going on the rest of this week then next week
it's paint time.  Did my drawing in Photoshop today.  Fun.
c

> rk
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> UG!
> | > | > last time I let her set up my system.
Chief - 26 Jan 2006 02:09 GMT
>> thats great! yeah, I dont have any men on my medical team
>> now either. all females -- i find they understand us a bit better
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>> UG!
>> | > | > last time I let her set up my system.

Where's your work? I'd like to see it. I work with Lightwave and
photoshop along with a bunch of other stuff. Mostly 3D animation and
modeling. I hope I get my vision to unblur enough to go back to it
eventually.

Gene

Colleen - 26 Jan 2006 14:38 GMT
I'll put some of the finals up on the web this AM.  I'll make a new post for
them.  It'll be about an hour.  Gotta have the coffee kick in first.

c

I just started using CS2.  Great program and a whole helluva lotta fun.

>>> thats great! yeah, I dont have any men on my medical team
>>> now either. all females -- i find they understand us a bit better
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> Gene
Ma¢k - 26 Jan 2006 16:23 GMT
>I'll put some of the finals up on the web this AM.  I'll make a new post for
>them.  It'll be about an hour.  Gotta have the coffee kick in first.
>
>c
>
>I just started using CS2.  Great program and a whole helluva lotta fun.

CS2?

Not fa,iliar with it, am having a brain fart.

>> Where's your work? I'd like to see it. I work with Lightwave and
>> photoshop along with a bunch of other stuff. Mostly 3D animation and
>> modeling. I hope I get my vision to unblur enough to go back to it
>> eventually.
>>
>> Gene

You know I have yet to see a copy of LightWave on any store shelf
locally.  Bryce and a few others I've seen.  What does lightwave run
$$ wise?  I've seen the end products from lightwave, quite impressive.

Signature

Mâck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Colleen - 26 Jan 2006 17:21 GMT
It's the latest version of Photoshop.  Some really fun new features on it.
Lots of autmation, file sorting stuff and some really cool new tools.  It's
my favorite toy.
c

>>I'll put some of the finals up on the web this AM.  I'll make a new post
>>for
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> locally.  Bryce and a few others I've seen.  What does lightwave run
> $$ wise?  I've seen the end products from lightwave, quite impressive.
Chief - 26 Jan 2006 19:23 GMT
>>I'll put some of the finals up on the web this AM.  I'll make a new
>>post for them.  It'll be about an hour.  Gotta have the coffee kick in
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> locally.  Bryce and a few others I've seen.  What does lightwave run
> $$ wise?  I've seen the end products from lightwave, quite impressive.

It's the best in my opinion for cost/feature. LW is used in TV and Movies
every year and has won an Emmy for the last 5 years for special effects.

The prices are dropping yearly, It's around 860.00 now at Safe Harbour

http://www.sharbor.com/

I paid 2495.00 ten years ago and anywhere from 395 to 695 for yearly
upgrades.  

The driving force in the industry today which is Autodesk - they make
autocad, 3D Max, and just brought Maya. That leaves small companies like
Newtek scrambling to keep market share so right now the prices are
depressed but that's not to say it's a good price - it may go lower. Even
worse the small companies may fold up shop then you have a program that
isn't supported anymore.
Loretta Eisenberg - 26 Jan 2006 19:25 GMT
Chief it is no big deal , really,  It justs allows people who dont want
to get into those things to know it is not about diabetes.

Loretta

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
Chief - 26 Jan 2006 20:57 GMT
Ronetta@webtv.net (Loretta Eisenberg) wrote in news:10701-43D9222B-116
@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net:

> Chief it is no big deal , really,  It justs allows people who dont want
> to get into those things to know it is not about diabetes.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
> terrorism.

OT - got it.  
Chris J. - 26 Jan 2006 03:04 GMT
>thx colleen :-)
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>| Hi, RK.  Nice to see ya posting again.
>| c

Hi RK! Glad to see you back!
David - 26 Jan 2006 03:08 GMT
>>| Hi, RK.  Nice to see ya posting again.
>>| c
>
> Hi RK! Glad to see you back!

I think I'm going to gag.

Dave
Grandpa Chuck - 26 Jan 2006 04:09 GMT
>>>| Hi, RK.  Nice to see ya posting again.
>>>| c
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Dave

Is that a promise? ;-)

Signature

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

The following information is given with the utmost respect
for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the
current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/
The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 24, 2006 is 2,237.
United Kingdom = 98
Other = 103  
Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000
according to President Bush - probably many more.

RK - 26 Jan 2006 04:36 GMT
interesting, a totally unprovoked post, and jackass has to
start in on me. typical.

too bad everyone doesn't put him on total KF, where he belongs.

| >>>| Hi, RK.  Nice to see ya posting again.
| >>>| c
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
|
| Is that a promise? ;-)
Grandpa Chuck - 26 Jan 2006 06:20 GMT
If those of us who have been here for many moons were to do that we
wouldn't see it when he starts in with his b.s. on some poor newbie.
That certainly doesn't mean we have to give him the attention he
craves so freaking much.

>interesting, a totally unprovoked post, and jackass has to
>start in on me. typical.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>|
>| Is that a promise? ;-)

Signature

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

The following information is given with the utmost respect
for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the
current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/
The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 24, 2006 is 2,237.
United Kingdom = 98
Other = 103  
Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000
according to President Bush - probably many more.

RK - 26 Jan 2006 13:53 GMT
I agree and that's why I didn't KF him before, until his attacks
started in on me.  As much as I have to deal with in life, his crap
is one that I can block because I simply do not need it.  I agree,
there are a few here that need to keep an eye on the stalking
net kook, but its the ones that condone his behavior I'll be KF
now.. I don't have time to tread through all the posts and worry
about someone condoning his ill behavior.  One already made it
there. Like you, mack and bruce and few others I appreciate trying
to keep this place cleaned up and forewarn others -- you won't land
in my kf.  Thanks for all you do.  You are a gentleman!

Reisa

| If those of us who have been here for many moons were to do that we
| wouldn't see it when he starts in with his b.s. on some poor newbie.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
| >|
| >| Is that a promise? ;-)
Grandpa Chuck - 26 Jan 2006 19:34 GMT
>I agree and that's why I didn't KF him before, until his attacks
>started in on me.  As much as I have to deal with in life, his crap
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Reisa

Shouted over my shoulder after reading this, "Hey Honey, Reisa agrees
with you and Susan. She says I am a gentleman too. Gee! I'm getting a
real fan club following. Must be doing something right."
Signature

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

The following information is given with the utmost respect
for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the
current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/
The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 25, 2006 is 2,239.
United Kingdom = 98
Other = 103  
Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000
according to President Bush - probably many more.

W.M.McKee - 26 Jan 2006 08:00 GMT
>>>| Hi, RK.  Nice to see ya posting again.
>>>| c
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Dave

Dave, you are one funny guy!

Will, T2
RK - 26 Jan 2006 13:47 GMT
how nice of you to condone his ill behavior. here I thought you
were an upstanding gentleman.  guess I was wrong.  I left because
of that jackass, and I was asked to come back and asked others
nicely not to reply to his verbal abuse towards me.  I'm not leaving
again, but I will from this point on put anyone who replys to him
and condones his attacks on me in my KF, I simply don't have time
to sort out and read such trash.

g'day Mr. McKee.

RK who's been here longer then the well known net stalking kook
BayAreaDave aka Dave.  (google doesn't lie!)

| >>>| Hi, RK.  Nice to see ya posting again.
| >>>| c
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
|
| Will, T2
Blash - 26 Jan 2006 13:53 GMT
<< I'm not leaving again, but I will from this point on put anyone who
replys to him and condones his attacks on me in my KF>>

   G A S P !!!!
Grandpa Chuck - 26 Jan 2006 19:37 GMT
Reisa knows what she is talking about. She's one smart lady to KF
Dave, aka BayAreaDave, rather than even seeing his attacks come up on
her screen.

>how nice of you to condone his ill behavior. here I thought you
>were an upstanding gentleman.  guess I was wrong.  I left because
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>|
>| Will, T2

Signature

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

The following information is given with the utmost respect
for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the
current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/
The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 25, 2006 is 2,239.
United Kingdom = 98
Other = 103  
Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000
according to President Bush - probably many more.

W.M.McKee - 28 Jan 2006 04:29 GMT
>how nice of you to condone his ill behavior. here I thought you
>were an upstanding gentleman.  guess I was wrong.  I left because
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>|
>| Will, T2

Hi Reisa,

This is not my fight. I do not care if you and Dave do not get
along... It is OK with me.. I like you both... I am sorry for both you
and Dave that you seem such antagonists, though.

I sometimes think laughter is a way to defuse ridiculous
situations....  If Dave wants to gag, so what? I respectfully suggest
that the better way would be to learn to breathe, sit, and laugh it
off....

Quite frankly, I do not understand what is going on with you two, but
it has nothing to do with me...

I think you are OK. But, please, let's chill....

And, I wish you a good day today, tomorrow, and every day, sincerely I
do... :-)

Will, T2
Evelyn Ruut - 28 Jan 2006 13:18 GMT
>>how nice of you to condone his ill behavior. here I thought you
>>were an upstanding gentleman.  guess I was wrong.  I left because
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> Will, T2

Dear Will,

Dave is quite often cruel and insulting to many people.
He has been especially so to RK.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

W.M.McKee - 28 Jan 2006 13:31 GMT
>>>how nice of you to condone his ill behavior. here I thought you
>>>were an upstanding gentleman.  guess I was wrong.  I left because
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>Dave is quite often cruel and insulting to many people.
>He has been especially so to RK.

Hi Evelyn,

Good morning. Remember little the kids song,

"Good morning to you,
good morning to you,
We're all in our places,
with smiles on our faces..
Good morning to you!    :-)

I am beginning to realize that there are some really bad feelings
there between RK and David, which I just don't understand. I really
mean no offense to either one of them, and RK, if I offended you, I
apologize.....  As a rule, I do not butt into other people's fights.

Will, T2
Evelyn Ruut - 28 Jan 2006 13:58 GMT
>>>>how nice of you to condone his ill behavior. here I thought you
>>>>were an upstanding gentleman.  guess I was wrong.  I left because
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
>
> Will, T2

Hi Will,

It can be all too human for people to join in with the rivalries of others,
and perhaps nearly divine to remain above the contention.   But few of us
are divine enough to be immune to seeing others suffer cruelty and say
nothing.   Dave has been cruel not just to RK, but to many people here.

There are some people in this world who are suffering deeply from whatever
problems they may have, and strike out cruelly at others.  It could be
because they resent/fear having this rotten illness, or it could be because
there are other issues in their lives they can't seem to get past.
Whatever the cause, it pays to engender the utmost compassion for them.   It
takes years of spiritual cultivation to be able to generate the kind of
compassion that can encompass cruel and angry people along with the nice
sweet ones, yet almost all religions encourage that principle.

Sometimes such persons will say they don't want kindness or compassion.
They may have come to a place where the adrenaline rush of anger is almost
an addiction to them, and the only human "currency" they can offer others,
often believing irrationally, that in pushing others down, they elevate
themselves.

Yet in our hearts we know that human beings can and sometimes do actually
change, and if they do change it will be from kindness that engenders
wisdom, not from the anger they know so very well how to respond to for all
of their lives, almost by habit.

Being kind to an evilly motivated person is *really* throwing them the last
rope that can save them from their own hatred, but often the crowd can
misunderstands it, thinking that it means acceptance of the persons misdeeds
or more nasty behavior.

Knowing you a little better personally, ought to help and remedy that
illusion, but all too often our own fear of such people creates this kind of
misunderstanding, and such is the way of our world, unfortunately.

Reisa, Will is just a really kind guy.
He is even kind to bay area dave.
Don't be mad at him for it.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

W.M.McKee - 28 Jan 2006 14:12 GMT
>>>>>how nice of you to condone his ill behavior. here I thought you
>>>>>were an upstanding gentleman.  guess I was wrong.  I left because
[quoted text clipped - 104 lines]
>He is even kind to bay area dave.
>Don't be mad at him for it.

Evelyn, you are so very wise. Thanks.

Coming from you, those are golden words. I could not have said better,
myself, had I tried all day.  

Will, T2
RK - 28 Jan 2006 15:42 GMT
| Reisa, Will is just a really kind guy.
| He is even kind to bay area dave.
| Don't be mad at him for it.

Thank you Eveyln, Yes, I know this, but for me to remain, I
have to and will KF anyone other then a select few who reply
to the "cyberstalker" -- Everyone says to ignore the trolls, well
I am as should everyone.  The "cyberstalker" doesn't deserve
any kindness, he deserves to be completely ignored so like a
good little troll he'll run away.

-- btw I know the cyberstalker will read this.. so tell your little
friends that are sending me harassing, threatening emails., I've
already turned them over to my local police, along with copies
of your posts attacking me and the google threads of your past
stalking that others have called you on in other newsgroups --
definately a pattern we're seeing here.

I accept your apology Will, but until I know you're not going to
reply to the cyberstalker when he makes a taunting cruel comment
to me -- I can't risk having you there to read and seeing it -- my
glucose doesn't deserve that.

Reisa
W.M.McKee - 28 Jan 2006 16:09 GMT
>| Reisa, Will is just a really kind guy.
>| He is even kind to bay area dave.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>Reisa

Reisa, I really have no idea of what has happened between you and
Dave... All I can say is that it obviously causes a lot of pain for
you, and probably for him, as well. And, I am totally clueless about
the cyberstalking thing. I have absolutely no idea of what that is all
about, and I am not sure I want to know. But, if it is true, I
understand your felt need to protect yourself.

If it means anything, I am here for you, and I do care very much for
you. And, I generally appreciate your posts and contributions a great
deal.

In the future, I will try to be more careful and not respond to Dave
in a way that you might misconstrue. But, I am on friendly terms with
him, as well.  A couple of days ago, I had no idea you would be so
offended. I was just fooling around. I should have been more
thoughtful and reflective.

Returning to your stress levels and glucose for a moment, I was really
serious about suggesting some breathing exercises, meditations, and
sitting... and then laughing some of this stuff off. It is part of how
I have kept my own sanity and kept my own glucose in check. Along
those lines, if I can ever offer any helpful suggestions, I would
invite you to contact me via email, or on here, at any time.

And then, you know Evelyn, who is a gem beyond comparing.

Peace,

Will
Evelyn Ruut - 28 Jan 2006 16:32 GMT
> | Reisa, Will is just a really kind guy.
> | He is even kind to bay area dave.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Reisa

Reisa, they just passed a new law about cyber harassment.... let's hope the
news of this has trickled down to the lower levels of existence where such
trolls live ......among the other worms and scum.

Signature

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

David - 28 Jan 2006 17:24 GMT
> | Reisa, Will is just a really kind guy.
> | He is even kind to bay area dave.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Reisa

LOL!  sounds like you've irritated others besides me; the only
difference being they are bothering you with emails??  Let the police
sort it out.  Let us know when (or IF) they find anyone who's broken the
law.  as you know, I haven't communicated via email with you since we
collaborated on the DM document last year.  after you became rude to me
on the NG I saw no reason to email you any further.

Dave
Cheri - 28 Jan 2006 18:35 GMT
I remember when you were great friends, I hope you will be again
someday. As you know, a certain poster and I have had an ongoing battle
for a few years, really rude and hateful things going on. One day not so
long ago, I looked at a post I had made to him, and I knew it was cruel
and hurtful, and I told myself...never again. Since then, he and I have
had civil conversations in the NG, and I've enjoyed his posts a lot. I
wish that could happen for both of you, and that's all I'm going to say
about that. :-)

--
Cheri

>law.  as you know, I haven't communicated via email with you since we
>collaborated on the DM document last year.  after you became rude to me
>on the NG I saw no reason to email you any further.
>
>Dave
David - 28 Jan 2006 19:05 GMT
> I remember when you were great friends, I hope you will be again
> someday. As you know, a certain poster and I have had an ongoing battle
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>
>>Dave

Cheri, that would work only if both parties were mentally stable. :)
She who is nameless has obviously got serious mental and personality
disorders.  Look at this thread, as an example.  she thinks someone (me?
Ha!) has put others up to sending emails to her??  that's delusional.
Mary and I discuss the goings on between ourselves, but we don't discuss
this NG with our friends.  This NG is too bizarre to bring up elsewhere.

dave
Grandpa Chuck - 28 Jan 2006 20:56 GMT
>> I remember when you were great friends, I hope you will be again
>> someday. As you know, a certain poster and I have had an ongoing battle
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>Cheri, that would work only if both parties were mentally stable. :)

Which means Dave isn't likely to be well enough for that anytime soon.

>Mary and I discuss the goings on between ourselves, but we don't discuss
>this NG with our friends.  This NG is too bizarre to bring up elsewhere.

Besides, he wouldn't want to be seen conversing with his right hand in
public.

;-)

Signature

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

The following information is given with the utmost respect
for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the
current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/
The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 25, 2006 is 2,239.
United Kingdom = 98
Other = 103  
Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000
according to President Bush - probably many more.

RK - 28 Jan 2006 19:37 GMT
since "he" is KF, I'll reply so others know.

I ONLY became nasty to you a FEW times AFTER you
ATTACKED me FIRST. (yes, caps are to emphasize you
started this..) but of course I'm sure you're not man enough
to apologize and STOP your petty attacks.

This is all I will say on the matter.  If someone wants to pass
on his apology for his belittling, name calling and his/wifes horrible
lies.

Then I too, will step up to the plate and apologize for anything I
*might* have done -- shameful that it has all been in my defense.

----
RK - Animas IR1250 pumper
... having fun with autoimmune diseases NOT!
dx 5/00 - last a1c 6.3

|I remember when you were great friends, I hope you will be again
| someday. As you know, a certain poster and I have had an ongoing battle
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
| >
| >Dave
Mary - 28 Jan 2006 20:11 GMT
"wife's horrible lies"?  Oboy, this is getting weird.  Please document
proof.  I am not a liar.  I may occasionally stand up for my husband,
but I don't lie.

Mary

> since "he" is KF, I'll reply so others know.
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> | >
> | >Dave
Evelyn Ruut - 28 Jan 2006 20:25 GMT
> "wife's horrible lies"?  Oboy, this is getting weird.  Please document
> proof.  I am not a liar.  I may occasionally stand up for my husband, but
> I don't lie.
>
> Mary

Mary, nobody really can ever know that from posts on a newsgroup, and people
can say anything they want.   Defending Dave is unnecessary and unwarranted.
He's a big boy and can speak up for himself for those who choose to still
read him.   It really isn't your issue.   If you just continue to be
yourself and relate to people in your own way as an individual, it would be
ultimately better for all.   I am a pretty even keeled person, yet he even
managed to get into my KF twice already in his last two net personas.
Signature


Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')

>> since "he" is KF, I'll reply so others know.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>> | >
>> | >Dave
Grandpa Chuck - 28 Jan 2006 20:20 GMT
>On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:18:32 GMT, "Evelyn Ruut"

>>Dear Will,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>Will, T2

Will, my friend, Reisa, aka RK, is very well justified in her
bitterness toward David based solely on his terrible treatment of her.

Signature

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

The following information is given with the utmost respect
for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the
current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/
The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 25, 2006 is 2,239.
United Kingdom = 98
Other = 103  
Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000
according to President Bush - probably many more.

Ma¢k - 28 Jan 2006 21:00 GMT
On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:20:39 GMT, Grandpa Chuck <Grandpa
Chuck@B4ME.org> Huffed and Puffed the following into the madness of
usenet:

>>I am beginning to realize that there are some really bad feelings
>>there between RK and David, which I just don't understand. I really
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Will, my friend, Reisa, aka RK, is very well justified in her
>bitterness toward David based solely on his terrible treatment of her.

He didn't say she wasn't.  Only that it is not his place to interfere
or get in the middle of something he has nothing to do with.

1 person can be friends with 2 people who do not like each other if
the 1 is smart enough not to discuss either one with the other.

"Did you hear what so and so said..."
I'm sorry, knew subject please.

Signature

Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

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