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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / February 2006Why are we here?
I am pretty jaded by newsgroup behavior, and although I just toy with unsubscribing, I'm sure newbies, either to diabetes or usenet, or both, might be intimidated or disgusted by the current back and forth by a "select" group of posters. Why are we here? Normally, I would just put the participants in my "ignore" file. Not vindictively, but just to make the group more useful/readable. However, what to do when the participants are among some of the most active and knowledgeable members of the group? Could we stop and think about how our behaviors might be affecting those that need help and encouragement the most. Even most animals will not sh.t in their own nests, and even those that do, usually clean it out occasionally. Again, I ask, why are we here? For myself, I pledge to respond only to polite posts. I will not engage in baiting other posters. If I can't be nice and courteous, I will not reply. I will respond to posts, not the poster. I will learn that you can disagree without being an a.s. If I have a history with a poster, I will recognize that and be especially careful to be proper and non offensive. Well, that's my pledge. I can only be responsible for myself. Cheers! Wild Monkshood >Again, I ask, why are we here? The last time I asked that, I was swore at and called names by several of your so called knowledgeable/active members, so good luck pulling the group together.  SignatureJoe T2 Nov '05 30mg Actos,3gr Cinnamon, Diet(100 carbs) & 3 mile walk(everyday) & BowFlex(3x a week) *****Diabetes, be proactive, not reactive.***** >Why are we here? Normally, I would just put >the participants in my "ignore" file. Not vindictively, but just to make >the group more useful/readable. However, what to do when the >participants are among some of the most active and knowledgeable members >of the group? My killfile is much like my sex life: Intensely private, and intensely boring. I have occasionally put otherwise knowledgeable folk in the "sin bin" (my reader has an expire after nn days option) for a while when they got into a urination competition with the resident trolls, who are very few in number, and whom I never see, praise be! I've always believed that Sturgeon's law* was optimistic, and I don't much mind. There's good stuff here for anyone who can ignore the crud by means fair or foul. Think of the group as one big loving somewhat dysfunctional family, with the usual assortment of loons. Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G *Usually quoted as something like "Ninety percent of everything is crud." Wild: I certainly understand your concerns.. I believe part of the problem is all of us participating in the NG don't know each others health issues. A elderly disabled T2 is certainly different than an athletic young T1 diabetic. Problem seems to me that we don't alway define our status and hence others may "jump on one" not knowing who they are. I'm thinking maybe we need to give our selves "identifiers" for better understanding. For instance I can get confused and baffled when "talking" with an 80 yr old obese/disabled T2 when the other person is a 60 yr old lean/otherwise healthy T2 marathon runner. We can't exchange information in the "blind" in a generic manner as it can be damaging to all parties. This NG is not only a personal support group but just as importantly a place for sharing of scientific information. I suggest identifing "personal sign-offs" so we may better understand where we are all "coming from". Larry > I am pretty jaded by newsgroup behavior, and although I just toy with > unsubscribing, I'm sure newbies, either to diabetes or usenet, or both, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Wild Monkshood | ..... This NG is not only a personal support | group but just as importantly a place for sharing of scientific | information. I suggest identifing "personal sign-offs" so we may better | understand where we are all "coming from". | | Larry Really Larry? Odd, that's not what I read in the ASD charter... I might be a lot of things, but blind isn't one of them. (okay well if I take out my contacts I am but...) Read this.... then maybe you'll get on the right ship and not drown in a sea of being incorrect. Subject: Charter and Info alt.support.diabetes [This newsgroup is for the emotional support of persons with diabetes mellitus, their families and loved ones.] Specifically, this group is not intended to duplicate the information in misc.health.diabetes, and [not intended to dispense medical advice about the disease. ] Nor is this group intended to duplicate the group alt.food.diabetic, which discusses recipes for those with diabetes. There are currently 15.7 million persons with diabetes in the USA (according to the American Diabetes Association) and 140 million persons worldwide with diabetes (according to the World Health Organization). The WHO expects the numbers to more than double to 300 million in the next 25 years. It is not intended that this group would carry commercial messages, binaries or HTML. alt.support.diabetes is not moderated. This is the Charter. It is intended that this newsgroup will not have a separate FAQ, an extensive multi-part Diabetes FAQ exists at http://www.faqs.org/faqs/diabetes/ **** who is verbally belittled whenever attempting to seek support for which the group was intended** so perhaps the real reason is.... Why is the GROUP really here? ---- RK, T1/pumper/Animas IR1250 Dx 5/2000 - Joined ASD 8/2000 Last A1C - 12.05 (6.3) No diabetic complications to date RK.. Gee no sharing of medical information on this NG.. Too Bad.. Larry not what I was making reference too, the "not a personal support group" you made comment too.. medical advice isn't dispensed here, we "share" our personal experience and it's followed up by see your doctor. theres one here that does quote many medical texts and gives profound advice on diet and exercise -- and it certainly isn't me. ---- RK, T1/pumper/Animas IR1250 Dx 5/2000 - Joined ASD 8/2000 Last A1C - 12.05 (6.3) No diabetic complications to date | RK.. Gee no sharing of medical information on this NG.. Too Bad.. | | Larry RK I said "not only a support group".. read carefully.. larry i apologize i did miss it ---- RK, T1/pumper/Animas IR1250 Dx 5/2000 - Joined ASD 8/2000 Last A1C - 12.05 (6.3) No diabetic complications to date | RK | | I said "not only a support group".. read carefully.. | | larry >RK.. Gee no sharing of medical information on this NG.. Too Bad.. > >Larry it's not forbidden, however it's not required in order to participate either. SignatureMâck©® Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o o) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus never hated anyone. > I am pretty jaded by newsgroup behavior, and although I just toy with > unsubscribing, I'm sure newbies, either to diabetes or usenet, or both, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > offensive. Well, that's my pledge. I can only be responsible for myself. > Cheers! oh F U wild. lol just kidding. well written post. I guess asd is like one big dysfunctional family and you know how families get during the holidays. lol. the irony of all this is that the posters who are criticizing david and mary are coming off as real a-holes and much worse than what they are protesting about. there has always been a clique in this group and to go against one of the members of it is like mafia retaliation. someone's panties are so bunched up he reported abuse to an isp. lol lol and what a silly thing to do lol. i'd love to be a fly on the wall of that isp when that abuse complaint comes in. it's like calling the swat team when you see someone litter a wrapper on the ground. lol there are no sacred cows here. if someone is so thin skinned that they can't stand up to someone who insults them (even if the insult is all in their mind) or ignore the person then they shouldn't be in a public forum full of anonymous posters. period. save your anger, rebukes, and petty fighting for those rare individuals who come into this newsgroup to really do nothing but disrupt the flow. several in here are becoming the very thing they say they hate. Sally "wearing my halo on top of my horns" > the irony of all this is that the posters who are > criticizing david and mary are coming off as real a-holes and much > worse than what they are protesting about. there has always been a > clique in this group and to go against one of the members of it is like > mafia retaliation. someone's panties are so bunched up he reported > abuse to an isp. lol lol and what a silly thing to do lol. This group was the same 5 years ago....... As mrslang said....There's always been a small group of "head-cases" here, using different names at times but their actions are always the same.... When you recognize the handles of the "head-cases" and start laughing BEFORE you read their posts, it makes them easier to stomach...... All-in-all though, it's a pretty good group once you learn who to pay attention to and who to IGNORE......that ONLY comes from reading for a while & paying attention....... Sounds like a good New Year's resolution. You definitely have a point worth taking... Mary > I am pretty jaded by newsgroup behavior, and although I just toy > with unsubscribing, I'm sure newbies, either to diabetes or usenet, or [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Wild Monkshood Wild Monkshood, It is true that newbies are turned off by this newsgroup because of the verbal abuse that is heaped on all comers. I'm sure you're aware that it is very hard to hold yourself to rules such as you listed when most others around you will not. It is very hard to avoid hitting back against someone that is attacking you. But I wish you the best of luck. Maybe you'll end up with a new group of posters here who can turn this into a more civil place. -Tina > I am pretty jaded by newsgroup behavior, and although I just toy with > unsubscribing, I'm sure newbies, either to diabetes or usenet, or both, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Wild Monkshood Wild, you have that so right. I decided a while ago that I wasnt going to be stressed by flames or insults or anything negative. I may read everything that interests me, but I will not respond for the most part , with those people who disrespect me. If we all could do that, then no one would anything to argue about imo. I am with you. I am here so that I can keep control of my diabetes and learn what I dont know. I am not here to fight Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. Wild, About a month ago, I brought up the same point, and it was explained to me at length that the light shed by fierce discussion is what illuminates issues. Which is fine, I replied, when it is issues that are being discussed, but not when it is people trading insults or calling each other names. Since then threads on a Cessation of Hostilities, and on "Gee, It's been Nice around here lately," and a thread starting with RK announcing her return, among, unfortunately, quite a few other threads have degenerated into pointless passionate exchanges of hostility. A while back one regular returned from vacation and chastised another member, with whom he essentially agreed, for falling prey to "last word-itis" in a thread that stretched well beyond 200 posts going back and forth, jab and dagger. And since you are correct that many of the more knowledgeable folk here cannot seem to resist the urge to get invoved, the inevitable result is that many other people must choose to allocate their time elsewhere instead of wasting it here. It would be wonderful if we all could remember that when you insult or belittle someone else, most of see that as belittling the person making the accusation , rather than reflecting on the target of their anger or spite. If almost all of us could refrain from last word-itis, this group would be a lot more useful to the many people who come here looking for support in dealing with their diabetes, and who end up leaving in dismay. With more and more diagnosed daily, I hope they find the help they are looking for somewhere. >Wild, > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >leaving in dismay. With more and more diagnosed daily, I hope they find >the help they are looking for somewhere. ASD has always been very active. Lots of insults, bickering, bitching, whining, and every other form of abnormal human behavior you can think of. Sometimes it is worse than an elementary school playground. Flamewars have given usenet its culture. _____________________________________________ http://www.healthdiabeticsoftware.com/ Free >ASD has always been very active. Lots of insults, bickering, >bitching, whining, and every other form of abnormal human behavior you >can think of. Sometimes it is worse than an elementary school >playground. Flamewars have given usenet its culture. I hang out in misc.health.alternative, and I occasionally drop in on alt.revisionism and talk.origins. This place is peaceful. SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com >>ASD has always been very active. Lots of insults, bickering, >>bitching, whining, and every other form of abnormal human behavior you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >This place is peaceful. Amen to that Peter. I left another politically centered newsgroup after two people threatened to come to our house and assault me or worse. One of them threatened to contact my wife's employer and complain about her, contact my grown children and even my ex-wife. He also posted personal information about me that he could only have obtained since he was a former law enforcement officer who still has many contacts across the state. That was the straw that broke the camel's back, as it were. I figured arguing against their far right wing "support Bush no matter what" attitudes was not worth having to keep a loaded gun within reach 24/7. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ Let us all pray that by the end of 2006 there will no longer be a reason for my sigline to contain these statistics. The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, 2006 is 2,180. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 You just can't post without turning it into a political statement can you? SignatureJoe T2 Nov '05 30mg Actos,3gr Cinnamon, Diet(100 carbs) & 3 mile walk(everyday) & BowFlex(3x a week) *****Diabetes, be proactive, not reactive.***** > Amen to that Peter. I left another politically centered newsgroup > after two people threatened to come to our house and assault me or [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > wing "support Bush no matter what" attitudes was not worth having to > keep a loaded gun within reach 24/7. >You just can't post without turning it into a political statement can you? What are you talking about? I shared my experience that I had in a _politically centered_ newsgroup and how I was driven off it with threats of violence. I was not making a "political statement" here at all. Had I been on the right an those that were threatening me on the left the story would be no different. I think you are just looking for something to fight about. Well Joe, go fight with you wife or your boss, but not with me. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ Let us all pray that by the end of 2006 there will no longer be a reason for my sigline to contain these statistics. The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, 2006 is 2,180. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 You never stop sharing! SignatureJoe T2 Nov '05 30mg Actos,3gr Cinnamon, Diet(100 carbs) & 3 mile walk(everyday) & BowFlex(3x a week) *****Diabetes, be proactive, not reactive.***** >>You just can't post without turning it into a political statement can you? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I think you are just looking for something to fight about. Well Joe, > go fight with you wife or your boss, but not with me. >You never stop sharing! Joe, that is what a support group is all about. It is the very nature of a support group that we share what it was like, what happened and what it is like now. Another way to put it is we share our experience, strength and hope with each other. After all, that is all any of us have. I have been involved in support groups of nearly twenty seven years. How about you? Now it is your turn to tell us what you think a support group is. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ Let us all pray that by the end of 2006 there will no longer be a reason for my sigline to contain these statistics. The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, 2006 is 2,180. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 >>You never stop sharing! > > Joe, that is what a support group is all about. ASD is about political views? Hmmmm, And here I thought ASD was about sharing info on DIABETES. > It is the very nature of a support group that we share what it was > like, what happened and what it is like now. Another way to put it is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I have been involved in support groups of nearly twenty seven years. > How about you? Yea, Yea, Yea, I started on CoCo II http://home.att.net/~robert.gault/Coco/History/History.htm and did the BBS. I'm also involved with a group that visits the elderly to help them deal with nursing home life, So what? I didn't know there was a probationary period in this NG's, when do I get my regular license? SignatureJoe T2 Nov '05 30mg Actos,3gr Cinnamon, Diet(100 carbs) & 3 mile walk(everyday) & BowFlex(3x a week) *****Diabetes, be proactive, not reactive.***** >>>You never stop sharing! >> >> Joe, that is what a support group is all about. > >ASD is about political views? Hmmmm, And here I thought ASD was about >sharing info on DIABETES. The particular posting that I was replying to had to do with the posters experiences in other newsgroup. Besides that, we talk about anything and everything here. Most of us are not ruled by our diabetes. If you are, I feel very sorry for you. >> It is the very nature of a support group that we share what it was >> like, what happened and what it is like now. Another way to put it is [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Yea, Yea, Yea, I started on CoCo II Me too. Sometimes I wish I still had the thing just for the novelty of it. I kind of miss the game, and I amy get the spelling wrong, Puyan. Wasn't much to it, but it was challenging. >http://home.att.net/~robert.gault/Coco/History/History.htm and did the BBS. Me too. >I'm also involved with a group that visits the elderly to help them deal >with nursing home life, So what? I don't see where one single thing you just mentioned has anything to do with participating in support groups. That's what. >I didn't know there was a probationary period in this NG's, when do I get my >regular license? You are being way too thin skinned. I suggest you calm down and wear the world like a loose garment. Of course you could try the alternative version of The Serenity Prayer: God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, The courage to change the one that I can, And the wisdom to know it is me. I do not ask that you agree with my political views or any others. I only ask that you respect my right to those views. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ Let us all pray that by the end of 2006 there will no longer be a reason for my sigline to contain these statistics. The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, 2006 is 2,180. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 SignatureJoe T2 Nov '05 30mg Actos,3gr Cinnamon, Diet(100 carbs) & 3 mile walk(everyday) & BowFlex(3x a week) *****Diabetes, be proactive, not reactive.***** > On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:02:59 GMT, "Joe" > > The particular posting that I was replying to had to do with the > posters experiences in other newsgroup. > Besides that, we talk about anything and everything here. Most of us > are not ruled by our diabetes. If you are, I feel very sorry for you. If chit-chat is what you are looking for, there are better places to do it then here, like ICQ, AIM, Roger Wilco, Etc... It is I who feel sorry for you, since the WAR has consumed you to the point that you CAN'Tpost without refering to it. Although it is a hot topic on both sides of the issue, this is still ASD. I come here for ASD support, if I want to stomp my feet about the war, I go to a NG of that topic. > I don't see where one single thing you just mentioned has anything to > do with participating in support groups. That's what. I don't cross-post. I'd like to think staying on topic is best suited for each NG I'm involved in and "YES" this topic doesn't do this NG any good. Thats why. > You are being way too thin skinned. I suggest you calm down and wear > the world like a loose garment. I would calm down if I were upset, but I'm not. I just don't see how your stamping of your feet about the war in ASD does any good for the group. > Of course you could try the alternative version of The Serenity > Prayer: > > God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, > The courage to change the one that I can, > And the wisdom to know it is me. You sound like Chung now! As a matter of fact: the only difference between you and him is CONTENT. You both rage on about your subjects(WAR & RELIGION) and neither has anything to do with ASD. All they do is create conflict and I assume thats what you are after. > I do not ask that you agree with my political views or any others. I > only ask that you respect my right to those views. As long as you continue to post political/war statements, this group will be constantly under O.T. wars weither its for or against. I guess I had better make more room on my harddrive. I know it won't be long before the rest of the group comes to your rescue to bash me. Etc.......... So it must be just about time for you to swear a bit and call me names too then. >> On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:02:59 GMT, "Joe" >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >If chit-chat is what you are looking for, there are better places to do it >then here, like ICQ, AIM, Roger Wilco, Etc... Most of us discuss a lot of non diabetic things here. Always have. Always will. Since diabetes effects all aspects of our lives and the things in our lives effect our diabetes these other things are pertinent at some level. >It is I who feel sorry for you, since the WAR has consumed you to the point >that you CAN'Tpost without refering to it. Now you are referring to my sigline. Siglines have been discussed at length many times over. Anyone is able to put just about anything they like in their sigline. Enough said on that subject. >> I don't see where one single thing you just mentioned has anything to >> do with participating in support groups. That's what. > >I don't cross-post. I did not say anything about cross-posting and I don't care for it either. > I'd like to think staying on topic is best suited for >each NG I'm involved in and "YES" this topic doesn't do this NG any good. >Thats why. Then ignore it. >> You are being way too thin skinned. I suggest you calm down and wear >> the world like a loose garment. >I would calm down if I were upset, but I'm not. Your responses say otherwise. > I just don't see how your >stamping of your feet about the war in ASD does any good for the group. My sigline is not in question. >> Of course you could try the alternative version of The Serenity >> Prayer: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >You sound like Chung now! Now that is really low! The Serenity Prayer has nothing to do with any religion whatever. > As a matter of fact: the only difference between >you and him is CONTENT. You both rage on about your subjects(WAR & RELIGION) >and neither has anything to do with ASD. All they do is create conflict and >I assume thats what you are after. No, but you sure as hell are or you would have dropped this line after asking me about it the first time. >> I do not ask that you agree with my political views or any others. I >> only ask that you respect my right to those views. > >As long as you continue to post political/war statements, this group will be >constantly under O.T. wars weither its for or against. There was nothing in my post about the war. NOTHING. Siglines have nothing to do with content. >I guess I had better make more room on my harddrive. I know it won't be long >before the rest of the group comes to your rescue to bash me. Etc.......... >So it must be just about time for you to swear a bit and call me names too >then. Joe, I don't need to call you names. AAMOF, I have a son named Joe. Love him. Once more Joe; siglines have nothing to do with the content of the individual postings. Why not pray with me that by the end of 2006 there are no American soldiers in Iraq so I can go back to an inspirational sigline? Go ahead and answer this Joe. If you would like that will give you the opportunity to have the last word if you will be honest about the fact that you have actually been bitching about my sigline so we know you are beating a dead horse that has had the hide whipped off of it a number of times. If you actually read my sigline you will see that it is there in tribute to our brave men and women who have paid the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ Let us all pray that by the end of 2006 there will no longer be a reason for my sigline to contain these statistics. The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, 2006 is 2,180. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Actually, Chuck, I hate to stir the pot, but I just noticed that your sig line says "The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, 2006 is 2,180. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 " Others should be 30,103 if you include the 30,000 Iraqis that Dubya acknowledged last week, or perhaps 100,103 if you go by the higher estimates made elsewhere. >Actually, Chuck, I hate to stir the pot, but I just noticed that your >sig line says "The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >acknowledged last week, or perhaps 100,103 if you go by the higher >estimates made elsewhere. The "Other" referred to in the website where I get the number means other none Iraqi troops. I had the number of Iraqis in it for a long time, but no one could come up with an accurate number at that time. Perhaps what I need to add is Iraqis in excess of 30,000. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ Let us all pray that by the end of 2006 there will no longer be a reason for my sigline to contain these statistics. The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, 2006 is 2,180. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 > Of course you could try the alternative version of The Serenity > Prayer: > > God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, > The courage to change the one that I can, > And the wisdom to know it is me. Do you know where that comes from? I've had it in one of my sig files for a long time. I thought I had copied it from Annette, but she said no, and nobody else on the group spoke up when I asked. SignatureWes Groleau He that is good for making excuses, is seldom good for anything else. -- Benjamin Franklin >> Of course you could try the alternative version of The Serenity >> Prayer: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >from Annette, but she said no, and nobody else on the group >spoke up when I asked. It is a modification of a famous lines attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr... and he may have gotten it from one of the early church fathers.. As I recall, it goes something like this: God, give us grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, courage to change the things which should be changed, and the wisdom to distinguish the one from the other. Gott gebe mir die Gelassenheit, Dinge hinzunehmen, die ich nicht ändern kann, den Mut, Dinge zu ändern, die ich ändern kann, und die Weisheit, das eine vom anderen zu unterscheiden. This is the so-called "Serenitiy Prayer," written in the early days of WWII, according to Ursula M. Niebuhr, his wife, who was asked about it later. If I am not mistaken, an earlier form of it goes back to St. Francis of Assissi. Obviously to point of the version that Chuck asks about is attractive, because it contains real wisdom that all thinking people instantly recognize. While we may want to change the world, or want to change individuals in our lives, the only one over whom we have control is our own self. Thanks, Chuck, for the reminder. Will, T2 One of the great things about this group is that it piques my curiosity. After I wrote the last post, I was prompted to look up a letter by Niebuhr, written in April, 1965. In it he says he wrote the prayer a little before the war, when he was conducting a service at a little country church in Western Massachussets. He acknowledges having had, at a later time, a conversation with an Episocpalian Bishop who thought the prayer came from St. Francis, but then the Bishop could not find it in the writings of St. Francis. Niebuhr says that's because he wrote the prayer, himself, and refused to copyright it, thus putting it into the public comain. Later, during WWII, the prayer was widely used and is known to have been used by Admiral Nimitz and the USO. It has also been picked up for use by Alcoholics Anonymous and the various related 12 step programs, although in their literature they attribute it to "anonymous". If the foregoing is of no interest to anyone, but me, please delete. I just have one of those minds that has to ferret out odd information. Will, T2 Really. I thought it was Eleanor Roosevelt. :-) -- Cheri W.M.McKee wrote in message <0oknr1dctut03pkgi9jsb826sapn8jagn4@4ax.com>... >One of the great things about this group is that it piques my >curiosity. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Will, T2 Hi Cheri, In those days of WWII, I think it became almost fashionable to quote that prayer..... I feel almost certain that Eleanor Roosevelt, great lady that she was, used it in her speeces, as well. Will, T2 Will, I am sure Eleanor used that prayer to say for herself considering her husband had a mistress for many years before he died. Did she need serenity. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. >Will, I am sure Eleanor used that prayer to say for herself considering >her husband had a mistress for many years before he died. Did she need >serenity. > >Loretta Of course you know they claim she had a mistress too. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, 2006 is 2,182. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000 according to President Bush - probably much, much more. On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 05:18:11 GMT, Grandpa Chuck <Grandpa Chuck@B4ME.org> Huffed and Puffed the following into the madness of usenet: >>Will, I am sure Eleanor used that prayer to say for herself considering >>her husband had a mistress for many years before he died. Did she need [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Of course you know they claim she had a mistress too. yea, but they didn't have our paparazzi or evangelicals to make an issue of it. SignatureMâck©® Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o o) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus never hated anyone. >On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 05:18:11 GMT, Grandpa Chuck <Grandpa >Chuck@B4ME.org> Huffed and Puffed the following into the madness of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >yea, but they didn't have our paparazzi or evangelicals to make an >issue of it. I would give odds that those evangelical and fundamentalist Christians buy more of the scandal rags sold at the checkout counter than any other group. They have a real need to look down their blue noses at others in order to feel superior when in their hearts they each believe, "I'm not worthy!" SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ FIVE MORE WERE ADDED TO THE TOTAL SINCE YESTERDAY WHEN WILL IT END? The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 5, 2006 is 2,187. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000 according to President Bush - probably much, much more. > I would give odds that those evangelical and fundamentalist Christians > buy more of the scandal rags sold at the checkout counter than any > other group. They have a real need to look down their blue noses at > others in order to feel superior when in their hearts they each So you are saying that WE are stupid enough to buy that garbage? Who's trying to feel superior? The last one that attracted my attention enough for me to remember said that Genesis was proved true by the discovery of the skeletons of Adam and Eve. I laughed at the thought that "They knew it was Adam and Eve because their driver's licenses were still in their wallets." No, the front page didn't say that, that was my thought when I wondered how anyone could believe that the bodies could actually be identified. SignatureWes Groleau Don't get even -- get odd! > Genesis was proved true by the discovery >of the skeletons of Adam and Eve. A friend will only buy the Weekly World News if there's a Hitler or Elvis story on the front page. He buys quite a few... I'm partial to the "President meets with aliens" stories myself. Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G > I'm partial to the "President meets with aliens" stories myself. I said I could only remember one, but you just reminded me of another. "Hilary adopts alien baby." SignatureWes Groleau You're all individuals! Yes, we're all individuals! You're all different! Yes, we are all different! I'm not! ("Life of Brian") >> I'm partial to the "President meets with aliens" stories myself. > >I said I could only remember one, but you just reminded me of another. > >"Hilary adopts alien baby." Hi Wes, Remember the scene and last song in "Life of Brian"? " Look on the bright side of life? " To my mind, that was humor on many levels! Will, T2 >>> I'm partial to the "President meets with aliens" stories myself. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Will, T2 Amen brother. The one that may or may not be from a religious book that I like is, "Wear the world like a loose garment." SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ THIS MORNING'S NEWS REPORTED ELEVEN MORE AMERICANS KILLED IN IRAQ YESTERDAY. ELEVEN IN ONE DAY! REMEMBER BUSH SAYING, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"? The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 5, 2006 is 2,193. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000 according to President Bush - probably many more. >>>> I'm partial to the "President meets with aliens" stories myself. >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >The one that may or may not be from a religious book that I like is, >"Wear the world like a loose garment." Sage advice, Chuck.... Hope you are having a good one today! Will, T2 >>>>> I'm partial to the "President meets with aliens" stories myself. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Will, T2 Excellent day, as a matter of fact. The sun is shining for the first time in over three weeks and it is 40º. Can't ask for much better than that in January in Iowa. I hope you are enjoying your day too Will. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ THIS MORNING'S NEWS REPORTED ELEVEN MORE AMERICANS KILLED IN IRAQ YESTERDAY. ELEVEN IN ONE DAY! REMEMBER BUSH SAYING, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"? The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 5, 2006 is 2,193. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000 according to President Bush - probably many more. >Excellent day, as a matter of fact. The sun is shining for the first >time in over three weeks and it is 40º. Can't ask for much better than >that in January in Iowa. Where, more or less, in Iowa? I go out across Wisconsin and up to Decorah each summer for a gathering of heirloom garden loonies (the vegetables, not the loonies. Though...) The email is more or less good. Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G >>Excellent day, as a matter of fact. The sun is shining for the first >>time in over three weeks and it is 40º. Can't ask for much better than [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic >Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G Born and raised her in Cedar Rapids and vicinity. Have never lived away from here for more than 3 years at one time. We have visited a few other areas of this great nation, but will stay here. We may have long, cold winters and severe thunderstorms, but where else can you enjoy the beautiful Spring, Summer and Fall colors and fruits of the land? They make it all worthwhile. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ THIS MORNING'S NEWS REPORTED ELEVEN MORE AMERICANS KILLED IN IRAQ YESTERDAY. ELEVEN IN ONE DAY! REMEMBER BUSH SAYING, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"? The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 5, 2006 is 2,193. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000 according to President Bush - probably many more. >> I'm partial to the "President meets with aliens" stories myself. > >I said I could only remember one, but you just reminded me of another. > >"Hilary adopts alien baby." LOL Well, she already has what used to be called a wolf in the bedroom. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ THIS MORNING'S NEWS REPORTED ELEVEN MORE AMERICANS KILLED IN IRAQ YESTERDAY. ELEVEN IN ONE DAY! REMEMBER BUSH SAYING, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"? The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 5, 2006 is 2,193. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000 according to President Bush - probably many more. On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 05:24:26 GMT, Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> Huffed and Puffed the following into the madness of usenet: >> I'm partial to the "President meets with aliens" stories myself. > >I said I could only remember one, but you just reminded me of another. > >"Hilary adopts alien baby." you misspelled "married". SignatureMâck©® Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o o) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus never hated anyone. Actually, it's the little old ladies and some little old men who buy the majority of them. -- Cheri >> I would give odds that those evangelical and fundamentalist Christians >> buy more of the scandal rags sold at the checkout counter than any >> other group. They have a real need to look down their blue noses at >> others in order to feel superior when in their hearts they each Actualy the wirters at the Weekly World Wide News IMHO should get Pulitzers for their imaginative fiction. Some favorite headlines: (a while back)--Iraq Shocked by Saddam--He Doesn't Like Humus! and, before the war, "Saddam Strikes First-Iraqi Sub Found in Lake Michigan" and more recently, "Bush Turns West Wing into Arrest Wing--So Staffers can Continue Working While in Jail," complete with a cover photo of Karl Rove poking his hands through prsion bars superimposed on the White House. This actually ran the same week as Newsweek's cover photo of President Bush in a Bubble But their apolitical stuff is pretty amazing too, along with Adam and Eve, and Noah's Ark type stories, they ran one a while back with a cover photo of the "2 year old boy Found Floating in Raft at Site of Titanic" wearing 1912 clothing, calling for his mommy. According to the story, divers found an obelisk, shaped like the one in the movie 2001,at the spot where the sip sank, which apparently had preserved the 2 year old in time suspension for the last 93 years. No true hack can come up with stuff like that... Morris >Actualy the wirters at the Weekly World Wide News IMHO should get >Pulitzers for their imaginative fiction. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Morris How about, "Build the pie higher?" Will, T2 >> I would give odds that those evangelical and fundamentalist Christians >> buy more of the scandal rags sold at the checkout counter than any [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >So you are saying that WE are stupid enough to buy that >garbage? Not at all. I based my opinion only what I have observed in the checkout lanes and then seeing the signs or stickers on the same peoples cars. > Who's trying to feel superior? I have not reason to want to feel superior. Why would I want to? >The last one that attracted my attention enough for me to >remember said that Genesis was proved true by the discovery [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >didn't say that, that was my thought when I wondered how >anyone could believe that the bodies could actually be identified. Years ago my ex used to buy one that isn't even on the shelves anymore. I didn't bother to look at them because they didn't interest me. Then one day I picked one up, opened it as discovered inside there was a column of what was supposed to be letters from readers. The letters were much like those published in the Penthouse Forum, except they were more outrageous. When I asked her if that was why she bought that one she blushed and said she hadn't noticed them. By the way, I never saw that one in the house again. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ FIVE MORE WERE ADDED TO THE TOTAL SINCE YESTERDAY WHEN WILL IT END? The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 5, 2006 is 2,187. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000 according to President Bush - probably much, much more. On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 22:10:13 GMT, Wes Groleau <groleau+news@freeshell.org> Huffed and Puffed the following into the madness of usenet: >So you are saying that WE are stupid enough to buy that >garbage? Who's trying to feel superior? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >didn't say that, that was my thought when I wondered how >anyone could believe that the bodies could actually be identified. funny, that's what comes to mind with most religious claims, regardless of the actual religion making the claim. no real proof but they claim it anyway. :} SignatureMâck©® Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o o) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus never hated anyone. You're not thinking Wes! Neither had belly buttons! (sorry, It's late and I had to! :-) ) Harold Spatz Healthy Home Tour! http://hspatz.healthyhometour.com >The last one that attracted my attention enough for me to >remember said that Genesis was proved true by the discovery [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >didn't say that, that was my thought when I wondered how >anyone could believe that the bodies could actually be identified. Yes, of course, I know that I guess alter FDRs infidelities , she didnt trust men. She was the most brilliant of woman, imo but she was very unattractive and maybe should couldnt get a man. I know that was bad, but it might be true. She is one of my most admired women. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. Don't be so hasty to pronounce Eleanor Roosevelt unattractive.... I certainly never saw her in person, but the impression most of us have of her is based on TV footage and pictures taken when she was rather old and had weathered the storms and vicissitudes of life. I have known many women who were striking in youth, in their own unique ways, but became a little homely looking, if not haggard, with advancing years..... Part of how anybody ages is related to how well they take care of themselves, what stresses they have endured, and what illnesses they have suffered. Loretta, I join you in your admiration of Eleanor Roosevelt. She left a fine legacy for all Americans and all women everywhere! Will, T2 Will, are you saying I might not age and be as gorgeous as I am lol I dont remember ever seeing her as a young beautiful woman unless there was a gorgeous movie star in the movie. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. Loretta, you are ageless and eternal! Will, T2 I have known many MEN who have the same problem, only they seem oblivious to the fact. ;-) -- Cheri wmmckee@cox.net wrote in message ... >weathered the storms and vicissitudes of life. I have known many women who >were striking in youth, in their own unique ways, but became a little homely >looking, if not haggard, with advancing years..... Part of how anybody ages How right you are, Cheri.... touche :-) Will, T2 >Yes, of course, I know that > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Loretta My grandparents never got over her being photographed smoking. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ FIVE MORE WERE ADDED TO THE TOTAL SINCE YESTERDAY WHEN WILL IT END? The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 5, 2006 is 2,187. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000 according to President Bush - probably much, much more. >One of the great things about this group is that it piques my >curiosity. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Will, T2 I do recall reading a story of a woman who claimed her father wrote it and something about her trying to copyright it, but by that time it was in such common use that she couldn't get it done. There was something in the story about her being tired of so many different people trying to take credit for something her father did. Do you happen to know the history of the writer of the famous song "Amazing Grace"? SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, 2006 is 2,182. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000 according to President Bush - probably much, much more. Hi Chuck, To answer your question.... I believe Amazing Grace was written by John Newton (1725-1807). Newton's mother died when he was 7 yrs old, and Newton spent much of his early life at sea, becoming a slave trader and captain of his own ship for about 6 years in his twenties. He found his faith, however, became converted, studued Greek and Hebrew, became ordained,and contributed to the "Olney Hymns", along with William Cowper (1731-1800). Newton conducted the funeral service for his friend at Cowper's death. The way he came to write the Olney Hymns was because Olney, in Buckinghamshire, was here he took his first post as a Curate. An interesting curiosity is that some say Newton did not write the last stanza of Amazing Grace, but rather, that stanza simply appeared in a Baptist Hymnal in the early 1800's. In his later years, Newton was an ardent opponent of slavery, when it was still very much a living institution, along with William Wilberforce. I find John Newton to have been a most amazing character! He is also credited with "How Sweet the Name" and Glorious Things of Thee". Will, T2 >Hi Chuck, > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Will, T2 From what I have read you left out one fact about him that I find very telling and important. He was also a recovering alcoholic. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, 2006 is 2,182. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000 according to President Bush - probably much, much more. That makes sense, Chuck, although I did not know about his being an alcoholic. From what I can tell, in his early years, he lived a very wild, topsy-turvey live, with lots of ups and downs, and some amazing exploits. For instance, before he became master of a slave ship, as a young man, he was flogged as a deserter, and spent a number of months himself marooned in Africa, where he was pressed into service as a slave..... truly ironic. When he sings of being a wretch who was saved, I guess he really knew what he was talking about! It is said he found his faith and changed his life partly through reading Thomas a Kempis.... Will, T2 Wes and Chuck, please excuse me... I may have mixed the two of you up, as to who asked the question about the quote. Will, T2 >>> Of course you could try the alternative version of The Serenity >>> Prayer: [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > >Will, T2 A good friend who we see at meetings at least a couple of times a month put it this way (and he said he got this from someone else), "The only person I can change is me and that is like passing a kidney stone. That is, it hurts like hell at the time, but man does it ever feel good afterwards." We have The Serenity Prayer on the wall in a couple of rooms in our house. We also have the Footsteps inspirational writing framed and setting atop our Ben Franklin stove in the living room. An aside, if I may; when did the living room become the great room? I always thought the great room was the one where we snuggle down under the covers with our two dogs and two of our three cats on top of the covers every night. After all, as Tony the tiger says, "IT'S GREAT!" SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, 2006 is 2,182. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000 according to President Bush - probably much, much more. > It is a modification of a famous lines attributed to Reinhold > Niebuhr... and he may have gotten it from one of the early church [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If I am not mistaken, an earlier form of it goes back to St. Francis > of Assissi. You are correct, but I was asking where the _modified_ version came from. I thought I had copied it from Annette but when she said no, I thought I had copied it from someone else on this group. When no one claimed credit, I did a web search and a groups.google search and could only find it in my own posts. I started to wonder whether I had invented it myself without remembering doing so. :-) SignatureWes Groleau Heroes, Heritage, and History http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau/ LOL -- Cheri >I started to wonder whether I had invented it myself without >remembering doing so. :-) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Heroes, Heritage, and History >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau/ "I started to wonder whether I had invented it myself without remembering doing so. :-) think hard...do you remember having any hypoglycemic episodes around the time it first appeared? "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change The courage to change the things I can. And the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they just wouldn't shut the puck up and do as they were told. --a fruit cake extremist--" SignatureMâck©® Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o o) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus never hated anyone. >"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change >The courage to change the things I can. >And the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they >just wouldn't shut the puck up and do as they were told. > --a fruit cake extremist--" Mack, you are a hoot! Will, T2 I just looked up Reinhold having never heard of him. He is a christian theologian. I googled him. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. >I just looked up Reinhold having never heard of him. He is a christian >theologian. I googled him. > >Loretta Yes, Loretta, he is... I read a lot of his writings years ago, and some of that stuff still bounces around in my head! Will, T2 >> Of course you could try the alternative version of The Serenity >> Prayer: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >from Annette, but she said no, and nobody else on the group >spoke up when I asked. The history of the original version of The Serenity Prayer has been said to have been written by someone in a twelve step program, I believe. I do know it is not tied to any religion, although many churches use it now. As far of the alternate version that I posted goes, I don't really know. I first saw it here. I repeated it at a twelve step meeting and couple of the people there said they had heard it that way at other meetings too. All I know is that it is certainly a very good way to look at what is going on around me. I am not sure how to google an entire quote such as that. Perhaps someone else does. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, 2006 is 2,182. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000 according to President Bush - probably much, much more. >>> Of course you could try the alternative version of The Serenity >>> Prayer: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >I am not sure how to google an entire quote such as that. Perhaps >someone else does. I guess we are all just magpies, just looking for another laugh at ourselves...har, har I love you all... Will, T2 > The history of the original version of The Serenity Prayer has been > said to have been written by someone in a twelve step program, I http://www.usguu.org/USGpulpit/guestSermon3.htm > I am not sure how to google an entire quote such as that. Perhaps > someone else does. go to http://www.google.com/advanced_search For exact phrase, use "serenity to accept the people" For all the words, use courage wisdom Or in simple google: courage wisdom "serenity to accept the people" Found sites I didn't find before, but still no attribution. Except "unknown" SignatureWes Groleau Expert, n.: Someone who comes from out of town and shows slides. >> The history of the original version of The Serenity Prayer has been >> said to have been written by someone in a twelve step program, I > >http://www.usguu.org/USGpulpit/guestSermon3.htm Excellent web page. I have it bookmarked. Thank you Wes. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ FIVE MORE WERE ADDED TO THE TOTAL SINCE YESTERDAY WHEN WILL IT END? The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 5, 2006 is 2,187. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Iraqi deaths in excess of 30,000 according to President Bush - probably much, much more. >>>You never stop sharing! >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I didn't know there was a probationary period in this NG's, when do I get my > regular license? Maybe the 27 years of posting off topic political crapola has turned "Grandpa" into Grumpy. If he learned what a NG's subject was and stuck to it, he'd not have to put up with the likes of you, Joe--someone who is rational! :) As you can see he is quite the control freak, too. Dave >>>>You never stop sharing! >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Dave Dave needs to take that course in reading comprehension again. I said I have been involved in support groups for nearly twenty seven years - not newsgroups. HUGE difference. Too bad Dave, aka Bay Area Dave, etc. doesn't get it and is only here to throw insults and flames in an effort to stir up sh.t that he has nothing to do with. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ Let us all pray that by the end of 2006 there will no longer be a reason for my sigline to contain these statistics. The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Jan. 1, 2006 is 2,180. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Also true IMO. There is more to a diabetics life than just diabetes. I think there is all kinds of good info here on a daily basis, as well as the other stuff. Now, if the people who are always complaining about the nature of the group would only realize that their complaints are just as disruptive as any OT thread or drift, then maybe they would stop complaining for awhile and contribute something positive too. -- Cheri Grandpa Chuck > wrote in message ... >Joe, that is what a support group is all about. >It is the very nature of a support |
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