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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / December 2005Pessimistic and depressed.Please help me
Male 32. I was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes with 397fbc H1AC was 11.7 in early 2004. Never felt any symptoms. Tested for protein in Urine and the tests came out negative. I was 40 pounds overweight at time. Before diagnosis my diet consisted mainly of Cereal, Dates, Honey with milk (3 times a day) in the past 6 months. I was overweight right from childhood I overindulged in food and sweats for a long time before my diagnosis.Breifly in 2002 and 2003 I got blurred vision and increased thirst during the summer for a month. I did not take it seriously. I went away after sometime. After diagnosis I started eating and exercising somewhat sensibly and last H1AC was 6.0. Usually my FBC is between 100 and 120 most of the days. When I was dignosed my endcocrinologist advised me to stop pills and start insulin . I argued with him and he told me that the only way I get FBC within 100 everyday is to take insulin. I dont want to take insulin at this time. I stopped seeing my Endo because he told me that unless I start insulin there is no point in seeing me regularly. This was in April 2004. I consulted my GP and he told me that with diet, exercise and medication, I can control my BS for sometime and eventually I may need insulin. Thats what I am doing now.(Not perfect though). But my H1AC (6.0 last tested in August 2005) numbers are decent after my diagnosis. I get depressed after after reading about the horrible complications that diabetics suffer overa long time. Sometimes I feel my life is over and I very pessimistic about life. I am unmarried and mostly my worry is being disabled and getting complications early on. My diabetes management is not that good and it depends mostly on how I feel. Yesterday.I drink a lot of coffee. My appetite is very weak and I still overeat sometimes. Hard to resist sugar cravings. My concern and questions are. How long do you think I may have had diabetes before being diagnosed in 2004? I dont have any symtoms or complications at this time. But I worry about past eating habits and I think I may have done enoough damage to my body already. This affects me seriously. Should be I taking insulin shoots following Endo advice? Can I stick with medicines for the time being with tight control on food and exercise? What would you advice on keeping this devil's disease under control for long time without any complications? I need help with this. Please help me. Thanks. > Male 32. I was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes with 397fbc H1AC was 11.7 > in early 2004. Never felt any symptoms. Tested for protein in Urine and [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Thanks. Sounds like your A1c is decent, but apparently your doc thinks you need insulin. Don't ask strangers here to decide for you what your doctor has already decided. You'll get conjecture here; not fact. The real question here is WHY DON'T YOU WANT TO GO ON INSULIN? You seem scared by statistics, yet you won't listen to your doctor. What on earth is left? ever heard the expression "don't cry over spilt milk"? What ever complications may or may not come your way, there's no sense in feeling they are inevitable. It's your job to take care of your body to the best of your ability. Failure to take care of your DM WILL result in problems, but with an A1c of 6, it sounds to me like you aren't doing bad at all. No one can say how long before your diagnosis you actually had DM. We've pretty much ALL wondered that very same thing ourselves. I figure I had DM for at least 5 years before mine was diagnosed. My wife's was even longer. she developed retinopathy, yet the doctors said she wasn't DM (even though she flunked a GTT). Crazy doctors. With better control, her eyes are clear. Try not to focus on the "what if's" and concentrate on the positive; the positive being that you can help shape your destiny by learning all there is to know about your disease, and acting accordingly. Hope you get your depression under control as well as you've gotten the DM. Dave this might be a dupe. I sent this same post from another NR and it's not showing up. my apologies if it shows up twice, eventually. dave Hi Dave, That was a VERY nice post! That time, I found myself actually agreeing with you completely. My only word of caution would be that there must be some reason why vansi's endo is recommending insulin, even though his a1c is so reasonable. Vansi, if you are reading this, are you sure you are a true T2? Is there something more that you are missing in the feedback from your doctor? A lot of those who start out as T2's eventually wind up on insulin, but then again, a lot of them have some loss of beta cell function, if not outright pancreatic failure, and thus are not simply T2's... They are insulin dependent in the truest sense of the term. It seems that as researchers find out more about diabetes, they are finding that some early T1's can be misdiagnosed as T2, and there are some people who exhibit signs of both insulin resistance (T2) and reduced/insufficient insulin output, and/or loss of beta cells (T1). It may be that your endocrinologist has done some testing that has led him to conclude that you are losing some pancreatic function, and thus are not likely to be able to produce enough insulin, long-term. I don't really know. That is just one guess. You deserve more than a guess. I would try to either get a second opinion from a qualified doctor (here read Board Certified Endocrinologist/Metabolic Disease Specialist), or go back to your original endocrinologist and ask him for some more information. Will, T2  Signature":Souffrons, mais souffrons sur les cimes." -If we must suffer, let us suffer nobly.- Victor Hugo (1802-1885) My last endo visit was in 4/2004 when I was initailly diagnosed with T2 by GP. My GP did FBC, H1Ac, Urine analysis for protein and sent me to see an ENDO. My endo did not say anything about my T1 or T2. He looked at the results and gave me his opinion about starting insulin. How do I know if I am T1 or T2. I am taking Metformin 500mg in the morning and 500 at night and I have fbc between 100 and 120 on most the days with occasional 130 or 140s. What are tests that I need to do figure out my DM type. My DM responds well to medication, exercise and eating less and good food. What are the symptoms of T1 and how can I make sure that I ma not T1. I dont want to take insulin because I can run sometime without insulin. I understand that I may need to take insulin eventaully but I would like to see if I can control dm with medications alone. I am shooting for a H1ac of 5.x in other 4-5 months. Also I am afraid that increase the insulin doasage and eat all the junk foods and at the same time keep BC under control. My weight will increase and all the bad stuff that comes with weight. Thank you much for your reply and concerns about T1, T2. I never thought twice to check the whether I have T1 or T2. Should do that soon. > Hi Dave, > > That was a VERY nice post! That time, I found myself actually agreeing with > you completely. You are too kind, Will! I hope that the most intelligent and sensitive of the group respond with their collective wisdom to Vansi to help him cope with his concerns. I, for one know where he's "coming from", even though my level of depression hasn't ever been as debilitating as his is. I'm heartened to know that he's doing something about it and despite the fact that he remains troubled for some years, that's not to say that he won't get a better handle on the problem. MANY years ago I suffered severe panic attacks for years. They came out of nowhere and were terribly frightening. I doubted if they'd ever go away. the doctors prescribed (in their utter ignorance) Valium. I tried taking small amounts but it wasn't the right pill for the job. One day, I got so fed up with my problem that I decided to meet my generalized fears head on once and for all so I took up flying. Don't ask me why, because I can't explain it, but once I took up flying, my panic attacks (the kind where you become convinced you are dying NOW) stopped and have never returned in more than 28 years. Wish it could be that simple for every one else with such an awful feeling! If I could bottle up the solution to my problem, I'd be glad to go into mass production and offer it to fellow suffers, but my solution seems as unique as it is inexplicable. Dave Dave, Thank your encouraging words. I am working everyday to keep it in the moment and but it is very hard and I sometimes worry the worst. I have a lot to learn and adjust on how I look at things. I alsway imagine the worst that could happen when ever something bad happens in my life. I have been like that all my life. I am under treatment for chronic severe depression for the past 4 years without much success. I am currently on and craving for sweets is intolerable. Once I start eating sweets I lose control and the amount I eat.. My mood swings makes managing my diabetes worse. When my mood is good my attitude towards diabetes is very good. When I amfeeling down it is worse. I am very impulsive my feelings dictate my actions on most of the days. I really respect diabetes disease when I am feeling good and give it the proper treatment and atttetion. When I mood goes down every caution goes out of the window. I think I am young and I can eat a couple of candies every day and I seriously think that nothing will happen because of elevated blood sugar for a 4 or five hours. When my mood is good I think that all these candies and uncontrolled eating will slowly eat me up one day and one hour at a time and I will soon come to grief. It is very hard tackling diabetes and depression. Sometimes I feel that I got diabetes because of depression and poor chocies and life style that goes with it. Feel very down like I have no life left to look forward. Thanks Dave. I appreciate your help > Dave, Thank your encouraging words. I am working everyday to keep it in > the moment and but it is very hard and I sometimes worry [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Thanks Dave. I appreciate your help I humbly accept your thanks... As you may already know, depression is a common problem for diabetics. Don't think that you are somehow at fault for having DM. Is your treatment for depression a combination of drug therapy and psychotherapy? Have you discussed additional avenues of treatment such as TMS, etc? Four years is of course a long time to be suffering from severe depression, but that amount of time doesn't in and of itself doesn't predict the outcome of additional treatment you'll receive in the near future. Keep researching your options. Are you bipolar (you said mood swings...)? I crave sweets for a period of time when I've been eating them regularly. If I stop cold turkey and switch to fresh fruits and avoid candy and cake type of foods, I find that after just a day or two, my mouth doesn't water for the junk food. as soon as I fall off the wagon, then I want that stuff every day. I used to eat Oreos when I'd get low, then I'd eat them just because they are tasty. After more than a few years of this, at the urging of my wife, we stopped buying them altogether. If you don't have them in the house, you can't eat them! <g> I can't stand Glucotabs, yet I carry them with me (I'm a pumper--since '96) for emergencies. I'll pop them when I'm really, really low, but when I'm just a bit low I prefer real food. Real food includes all the "bad stuff"--chocolate, snack foods. When i'm in one of my healthier moods, I try to eat 1/2 a banana (don't really like them) or a fruit cup. anything but junk food, if I can. I wish I could honestly say I don't eat junk food, but it would be a lie. When I go up into the 200's I feel stressed because I know how bad it is for me. then I pump in a bunch of insulin to bring it down quick. My wife says I go overboard--both with treating a low and with treating the highs. She's right, because I always rebound. sigh. (My A1c's are in the low to mid 6's. I want them in the upper 5's,which they have been on a few tests.) So that, in a nutshell is how I deal with this disease. I check my bg's a lot if I'm high, and keep bolusing to get it back down. I actually am more relaxed if I know I'm a bit low, because that's not as harmful. I'll treat the low, but I don't get stressed like I do when a whopping big number shows up on my meter. I'm gonna stop rambling now and give you a chance to write me your thoughts! Dave The big question you have to ask yourself and be true to yourself is whether or not you can maintain tight control, exercise regularly and take the medication. If you can honestly say yes to those question, there should be no question you cant be in control. If, on the other hand, you know who you are and your ability to stay the straight and narrow is not there, insulin may be a very good alternative for you. There are lots of type IIs that are on insulin and do very well. I wish you luck on your decision. It is better that you make the change rather than the change makes you. How long have you had it, I dont know, but do you want to spend another day not knowing or caring about the consequences of your behavior. Good luck and please let us know your decision. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. This is first time posting in any news group about my concerns and problems. You guys are very wise. Thank you Loretta. I think I can find some peace and wise advise in this group. Vansi we are here to support you, both emotionally and with your diabetics. No thanks needed. Loretta -- In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism. You have gotten some excellent answers here already. The only thing I will add and others may have already covered is, if you do not trust your doctor's judgement then for your own peace of mind find one who you to trust completely. After all they work for us regardless of whether we have insurance or don't. Good luck. Keep us informed. >Male 32. I was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes with 397fbc H1AC was 11.7 >in early 2004. Never felt any symptoms. Tested for protein in Urine and [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > >Thanks. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ FOUR MORE AMERICANS WERE ADDED TO THE LIST SINCE YESTERDAY. The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Dec. 26, 2005 is 2,172. United Kingdom = 98 Other = 103 Snipped cause my "advice" is a question. Have you, can you, find another endo? Perhaps even a group? Lou > Male 32. I was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes with 397fbc H1AC was > 11.7 in early 2004. Never felt any symptoms. Tested for protein in > Urine and the tests came out negative. I was 40 pounds overweight at > time. Before diagnosis my diet consisted mainly of Cereal, Dates, > Honey with milk (3 times a day) in the past 6 months. I was > overweight right from childhood I overindulged in food and sweats for > a long time before my diagnosis.Breifly in 2002 and 2003 I got > blurred vision and increased thirst during the summer for a month. I > did not take it seriously. I went away after sometime. > After diagnosis I started eating and exercising somewhat sensibly and > last H1AC was 6.0. Usually my FBC is between 100 and 120 most of the > days. > When I was dignosed my endcocrinologist advised me to stop pills and > start insulin . A second opinion from another endocrinologist won't go astray. FWIW, I have been on diet and exercise only for 5 1/2 years and all lab tests are better than normal, I have no apparent complications and no apparent diabetic progression. My A1c is under 5.0 though and I like to eat and exercise in a way that keeps my bg's even, all day, every day. > Hi! I am new on thjis forum, but I could not resist to reply to this > line. To not overdose everybody :-) I'll just give a few points wich > are humming on my head: 1: yes, as I read some time ago in scientific American it seems that diabetes 2 could be associated to long-time previous depression including a good handfull of underdiagnostized ones. So until you get over that problem your diabetes control will be quite frustrating. Not your fault but your depression's secondary effects 2: I have comprobated that when I feel well and happy, my glucose levels are fine, either if I make quite a lot of gastronomic excesses (ehem... spirit is strong buth flesh is weak...). Wher I am nervous, tired, estressed, sad, and especially angry, my sugar levels goes to the roof, either if my alimentary and exercice control is good. That gave me some headaches until I found some information that mood is more important in glucose levels that food for a good group o' diabetics 3- don't rely on endocrine diagnistic as in God's Words (a spanish common phrase..same in english?) . I have already send to hell two of them because odf their prepotence, bad syntonie and misundestandings. If they insist to treat me as a sheep I am not obliged to take them seriously. Most of them don't take time to LISTEN to you, and never SEE you, just throw oyer you head a preconfectionated plan made as they figure you SHOULD be. Don't say they already have a lot of experience, usually they just have a lot of prejudiced ideas. 4- yes, most of the scientific information I read says that in diabetes II, unless the patient refuses to change diet and life style at all, is mostly based on mediterranean diet and moderate, easy.-to- do exercice as 1-hour daily walk. Oral medication is also used to help. 5 - In Spain, there are two big schools of insuline protocols. One says that to use insuline as soon as possible is a good idea. The second and most extended one says that insuline administartion in DMII must be delayed as far as possible, avoidin the insuline-resistence that is so common after long years of use 6- How can anybody say that she does not care what kind of diabetic is? your health is YOUR responsability. Oh well enough for a first mail.. greetings -- Helen >> Hi! I am new on thjis forum, but I could not resist to reply to this >> line. To not overdose everybody :-) I'll just give a few points wich [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >5 - In Spain, there are two big schools of insuline protocols. One says >that to use insuline as soon as possible is a good idea. The second and >most extended one says that insuline administartion in DMII must be >delayed as far as possible, avoidin the insuline-resistence that is so >common after long years of use If you are type 2 you are insulin resistant at all stages of the disease not just after many years of injecting insulin. Injected insulin does NOT cause insulin resistance. >6- How can anybody say that she does not care what kind of diabetic is? >your health is YOUR responsability. > >Oh well enough for a first mail.. >greetings SignatureMâck©® Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o o) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus never hated anyone. > After diagnosis I started eating and exercising somewhat sensibly and > last H1AC was 6.0. Usually my FBC is between 100 and 120 most of the > days. <snip> Vansi, You haven't told us the most important piece of information. What does your blood sugar test at 1 and 2 hours after meals? If you are routinely going over 180 mg/dl you are going to be causing yourself problems as time goes by. But the good news is that you can do a lot to improve those numbers by using a blood sugar meter to modify your diet until it isn't causing spikes. You do that by cutting back on carbohydrates using the advice at http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm You may have to invest some time in learning the carbohydrate content of the items you are used to eating and replacing the high carb foods with things you like that are kinder to your blood sugar. That strategy alone has helped a lot of people here achieve excellent health. If you can't get your post meal numbers under 140 mg/dl (the level recommended by endocrinologists) then maybe it is time to talk to a doctor about insulin. Perhaps the single most important thing you need to know is this. Insulin shots do not hurt. Hard to believe, but true. The needle is different from the one they use for inoculations (which hurt like hell) and you stick it into fat, not muscle. >> After diagnosis I started eating and exercising somewhat sensibly and >> last H1AC was 6.0. Usually my FBC is between 100 and 120 most of the [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > different from the one they use for inoculations (which hurt like hell) > and you stick it into fat, not muscle. With his A1c I think he's doing pretty well in the physical aspect of dealing with his DM, his concern over snacking notwithstanding. I'd venture to say it's his thoughts about the disease that's more overwhelming than his ability to deal with his diet. He's fearful and guilt ridden when he eats something sweet. The guilt because he knows it COULD be harming him and the FEAR of the unknown--namely will the future hold a number of complications for him. What he needs isn't going to come from a carb counting chart. Dave > With his A1c I think he's doing pretty well in the physical aspect of > dealing with his DM, his concern over snacking notwithstanding. I'd > venture to say it's his thoughts about the disease that's more > overwhelming than his ability to deal with his diet. And it doesn't help that when he DOES get his numbers looking good an endo tells him it's insulin time. I would be starting to wonder at what level do I need to be before the all knowing specialist feels I am out of danger. IOW, putting the fear in him where there doesn't need to be. The GP sounds a better deal in the OP's case. I had a doc flip when I got a 6.2 A1c. Sure it was higher than usual for me but it wasn't going to kill me tomorrow. >>With his A1c I think he's doing pretty well in the > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > when I got a 6.2 A1c. Sure it was higher than usual for me > but it wasn't going to kill me tomorrow. I agree with you that I don't quite follow the doc's comments to the OP, if his A1c's are doing as well as they are. There MUST be more to the story, I'd expect. Dave Hi Vansi, I can relate to your anxiety. I too have suffered from it, although perhaps not to the degree that you have. It's really a separate issue from the diabetes; it's just that the diabetes provides lovely fodder for your anxiety to latch onto. For me, when I'm in an anxious mode, I'll find something to worry about. It could be anything from diabetes or fear that I'll be run over by a Mac truck the next time I'm going down the highway. It helps to understand that the anxiety is a condition all by itself. When I start worrying, I tell myself that my worries are exaggerated and I should ignore them. If I tell myself this often enough, it fades. Simplistic, I know, but for me, it works. As for your diabetes, true it is a real issue, but it is an issue you know how to control, which is apparent by your HgbA1c. I personally believe that if we take care of ourselves, we can forestall complications indefinitely. Your life is far from over. If you watch your diet and exercise--which everyone should do, diabetic or not--and take your meds, your diabetes no longer needs to be fuel for your anxiety. And I agree with David concerning carbs like Oreos--if I don't eat them, I don't miss them; but if I eat one, then two has got to be better. HA! You may already be aware of this, but everytime you eat something like an Oreo (or whatever your pet carb food is), you spike your insulin. When the insulin is high, it causes the craving, and the cycle continues. Therefore, I avoid all those carb foods that are going to spike me. Over time, my cravings have stopped and I feel much better than I have for some time. Don't sell yourself short. You can achieve good control. And I agree with everyone else, perhaps a 2nd opinion is warranted with another endo. When you go, write your questions down ahead of time, and make sure he/she answers every one of them. That's part of their job. Michelle > Male 32. I was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes with 397fbc H1AC was 11.7 > in early 2004. Never felt any symptoms. Tested for protein in Urine and [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Thanks. My guess is that you were probably undiagnosed for 3-4 years, as I was. I asked a couple of doctors about some symptoms I had over those years and was always told that "it couldn't be diabetes". One blood test administered during treatment for something else was at 169 and the Dr. said that was a "little high" but that I shouldn't be concerned. The dry skin on the hands and feet was diagnosed by a dermatologist as contact dermatitis. Knowing then, what I know now would have made things easier. Buying a $15.00 glucose meter and a $10.00 book would have straightened things out. It sounds like you are, in fact, doing pretty well. Most, if not all of us, contend with depression and in many cases, including yours truly, this has been present for years before having DM as a cause for blame. DM is one more thing to live with. Neither of these afflictions is life-threatening if kept under control. Being a fan of pharmaceuticals only for recreational use, I would suggest that you undertake a study of what those little "helpers" are doing to you in general. All drugs have side effects and many are quite nasty. If you are only 32, it hasn't been that long since you were studying. Use Google, buy some books, and get hip and get better. There is evidence that overproduction of your own insulin (endogenous) in the face of insulin resistance, is harmful to the beta cells that produce insulin because of amyloid deposition in the pancreas, a co-product of endogenous insulin production in the T2. Thus, exercise, low-carb, Metformin and injectable insulin (exogenous) would be a route out of the T2 syndrome for you. Check out this article: You'll need Adobe Reader. http://www.joplink.net/prev/200107/200107_02.pdf > Male 32. I was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes with 397fbc H1AC was 11.7 > in early 2004. Never felt any symptoms. Tested for protein in Urine and [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Thanks. |
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