Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / December 2005
A Critical Question
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tightwad - 14 Dec 2005 02:17 GMT I'm Agent Orange linked Diabetic and have Diabetic Neuropathy and associated other problems. I'm being treated by the VA.I only get to see my Physician every six months unless? The Neuropathy was in my feet and lower legs. Then it appeared in my upper lip and face. Together with the ringing in my ears, and the burning, stinging and pain and other things it is a living hell. I feel I will go mad some times. I feel like just running and running and maybe escaping the pain. I had a problem with low grade fever and nausea. Soemone, no one knows who, ordered a Gall Bladder test for me. The results were not good. My flow rate of bile is 35% of normal, if I understood correctly. My Primary Care Doctor says it is caused by Neuropathy. I am not getting much information from him, the Surgeon, who said it was not bad enough, yet, to remove, or anyone. I stumbled over some information, somewhere that if the Neuropathy affects the Heart Muscle it is all over. I could not elicit any information from any of these people what the chances are of it occuring. I feel I have a death sentence hanging over me. It seems the Neuropathy may be progressing. I keep my sugar down in the 100 or lower range. It is an ordeal to do it. I hoped that by keeping it low and losing weight I could lick it. Anyone know where there is any good information on this aspect of Diabetes and Diabetic Neuropathy? Do you know anything yourself.
Merry Christmas
Uncle Enrico - 14 Dec 2005 03:52 GMT > I'm Agent Orange linked Diabetic and have Diabetic Neuropathy and > associated other problems. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Merry Christmas My sincere sympathies on your many health problems my friend. All I know about diabetes and neuropathy I've learned here, on the web and from books.
Your blood sugar readings of 100 and lower are excellent. I have read that tight control of blood glucose can improve neuropathies. There are many folks here who can advise you better than I can.
Have you tried doing a Google search using several terms at once such as: Agent Orange diabetic neuropathy.
I'm sure you'll get some more replies with better info than I can give.
BTW...is it possible to get looked at by a doctor outside the VA system?
God bless you my friend. Merry Christmas.
bantista - 14 Dec 2005 05:35 GMT > I'm Agent Orange linked Diabetic and have Diabetic Neuropathy and > associated other problems. Sorry to hear it. This is accepted by the VA as a well known problem. How Much they know about it, I don't know.
> I'm being treated by the VA.I only get to see my Physician every six > months unless? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Merry Christmas I certainly hope you can find some help for this situation. These do not sound like trivial complications of diabetes, as if there could be such a thing which as far as I can tell there are Not.
There is no cure for bad government.
And there is no cure for diabetes.
Someone may have some suggesions for your neuropothies, there are certainly persons here who have experience with problems of this kind.
I hear from your post that your bg is under control. I think that is helpful. I wish you well. This could certainly have happened to me, and I am glad that it didn't. I also have T2 diabetes, but I have diabetes on both sides of my family and am in native american and mexican american risk groups, so when I got this disease it was not much of a surprise. Except that it was. And so far, I have no neuropothies of any kind. I'm very glad of that.
Any of us might have gone to the war and had these kind of issues.Thank you for your service.
Please seek better council from your doctors and diabetes educators and from specialists in your disease. You need better information about your condition than you are getting. This, asd, is a good place to ask questions and find support for diabetes problems, but your primary support is your health team, which much be made to understand that your needs are not trivial and must be met. You have to be the leader in treating your disease. That means that you must assume responscibility for all aspects of your situation and not flinch from troubling the medical professionals who should help you in every way. They must give you the answers to your concerns.
Keep up communication with the group, asd, and tell the technical details of your medical reports whenever you feel comfortable doing so with the rest of the world. Some of the people here are very informed about the backwaters and byways of this disease. Not me. But I have learned a few things I didn't know by reading this group and am better off for it.
regards, rudy bantista@thuntek.net
Chief - 14 Dec 2005 06:11 GMT > I'm Agent Orange linked Diabetic and have Diabetic Neuropathy and > associated other problems. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Merry Christmas Hey,
I have the usual laundry list for Vietnam/Desert Storm vets, Diabetes, neuropathy, gout, tinitus, Upper and lower GI problems and a partridge in a pear tree. I don't have any pain so I count my blessings - such as they are.
Because I'm retired military I use tricare instead of VA. My doctor says most of my problems could be helped or at least slowed by taking care of the diabetes and changing my diet. So far he's been right. I don't even know most of the time that I'm supposed to be sick.
Hang in there, hope all goes well and Merry Christmas.
Here's a link to some VA related links
http://www1.va.gov/health/diabetes/default.htm
Ma¢k - 14 Dec 2005 06:43 GMT >> I'm Agent Orange linked Diabetic and have Diabetic Neuropathy and >> associated other problems. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> I stumbled over some information, somewhere that if the Neuropathy >> affects the Heart Muscle it is all over. Neuropathy is a very common for us and it does effect various systems including the autonomic system.. However when it starts to affect the heart all is NOT over. The symptoms and severity will very from person to person and will very from day to day in the same person.
The best way to reverse the problem or at the very least slow it or halt it's progression is to lose excess weight, safely and slowly, and to maintain good BG control, getting your A1c into the 5% range.
also there 2 known supplements that have varying degrees of success. Alphalipoic acid and even primrose oil. Both can be purchased at most any local pharmacy. No need to buy online or from any health food supplement store, neither which can guarantee that what you are buying is what you are getting. Both can be used separately or together safely. The only known side effect I have read so far is a slight itchy feeling from the EPO. There might be others, easy enough to find if you google for them.
There are some prescribed meds that work, in differing degrees for different people. I've tried elavil which gave limited relief and after several months no longer worked. I now use Topamax which I've been taking for a few months along with EPO and it is working just fine for me.
>> I could not elicit any information from any of these people what the >> chances are of it occuring. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Hey, it does take time. and for many in the beginning at least, when you get your BGs done, it will appear that the symptoms may be getting worse. But as your body acclimates to the normal BG range of a non-diabetic the symptoms will ease off.
now you do not actually mention how frequently you actually test. Some people have made the mistake that testing once or twice a day gives them all the data they need. What they do not always find out until later is that they may be missing high BG readings between those tests. have you read Jennifer's advice to the newly diagnosed at http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org ? It's not just for the newly diagnosed as many old farts need the info as well.
Do not accept anything as a "definite" where diabetes is concerned. If I did that I would be dead by over 10 years now. The predictions that doctors were making when I was younger have not come to pass in the time frame they gave.
another vet says that he goes outside the VA for his medical care. If at all possible, you should look into this as well. You will get better medical care. I do realize that you may not be in a situation that would allow it. But you really should look into it. personally I hate taking my other half to the VA. I'd rather pay the extra expense and go to my own doctors.
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Jenny - 14 Dec 2005 16:32 GMT > The Neuropathy was in my feet and lower legs. Then it appeared in my > upper lip and face. Together with the ringing in my ears, and the > burning, stinging and pain and other things it is a living hell. > I feel I will go mad some times. I feel like just running and running > and maybe escaping the pain. You've gotten excellent advice about the neuropathy, ALA, etc and about testing to make sure you are keeping your post-meal spikes as low sa possible. I want to reiterate that as you improve your blood sugars and the nerves heal they can tingle and hurt. This can be a sign they are getting better, so hang in there and keep those blood sugars down, as tough as it is.
My own experience has been that tinnitus is far worse, in terms of crazy-making, than any nerve pain (of which I have had far too much from other reasons.) I don't know the exact mechanism by which Agent Orange tinnitus works, but I have spent many years with tinnitus and have found the following helpful.
1. No aspirin or any NSAID for pain, ever. Tylenol does not make tinnitus worse.
2. Eliminate foods, sunscreens,and deodorants containing salicylates--this includes anything with "cylate" in the name and Aloe. Salicylates make my tinnitus much, much worse. There is one brand of deodorant that has none, Almay, available in many drug stores. It took a while after switching to it, but I noticed a definite improvement.
There are lists of foods containing salicylates on the web and you'll find they include peppers and a many other vegetables. Note your own response to these foods and eliminate those that seem to make things worse.
3. Read the prescribing information (available online) for any drug you are taking and if it says "Tinnitus" anywhere in the list of side effects, demand your doctor give you an alternative. A shocking number o common drugs make existing tinnitus much worse, including a lot of common antibiotics. Often if you ask a doctor, "Will this make my tinnitus worse" they'll assure you it won't and THEY'LL BE WRONG.
4. White noise is your friend. Loud fans save your sanity. I use a little "white noise" generator by my computer, and a big air-purifier with a very noisy fan in the bedroom. They help most of the time except when things really ramp up.
Re the cardiac neuropathy, I can't get a lot of information from doctors on this, but lowering blood sugar as far as possible seems to be the best approach. Dr. Richard Bernstein in his book "Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution" says that his patients are able to improve autonomic neuropathy (which is what cardiac neuropathy is) with extremely tight blood sugar control. He's been proven right on so many other things that were written off as cranky ten years ago, that I'll give him credit on this one, too.
Susan - 14 Dec 2005 16:45 GMT > My own experience has been that tinnitus is far worse, in terms of > crazy-making, than any nerve pain (of which I have had far too much from [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 1. No aspirin or any NSAID for pain, ever. Tylenol does not make > tinnitus worse. This is excellent advice for those who are salicylate sensitive, but aspirin and high salicylate foods don't worsen tinnitus in everyone. IME, my own T (before it went mostly silent thanks to antibiotics and low carb) was only temporarily elevated by a very high salicylate meal or drug, and I can now take NSAIDS if I need them, with no worsening of my T.
In my case, tinnitus was caused by brain infection.
Sometimes tinnitus is caused by or associated with thyroid dysregulation, too.
I have at least one abstract finding that a low calorie, very low carb diet improved T a great deal.
> 2. Eliminate foods, sunscreens,and deodorants containing > salicylates--this includes anything with "cylate" in the name and Aloe. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > find they include peppers and a many other vegetables. Note your own > response to these foods and eliminate those that seem to make things worse. This last is a critical step, since not everyone will react badly to salicylates.
> 3. Read the prescribing information (available online) for any drug you > are taking and if it says "Tinnitus" anywhere in the list of side > effects, demand your doctor give you an alternative. A shocking number o > common drugs make existing tinnitus much worse, including a lot of > common antibiotics. Often if you ask a doctor, "Will this make my > tinnitus worse" they'll assure you it won't and THEY'LL BE WRONG. Sometimes. Not every effect noted in prescribing info is an effect of the drug; sometimes it's just something reported during a trial. Further, in my own case, it was important to find out that although tinnitus initially worsened to an insanity inducing roar on doxycycline, it was a temporary reaction to due bacterial dieoff (endotoxin release) that got better, not worse, the longer I took the antibiotic. Had to research this at length before I had the confidence to continue with the drug, since the jet engine in my head was the worst thing imaginable.
> 4. White noise is your friend. Loud fans save your sanity. I use a > little "white noise" generator by my computer, and a big air-purifier > with a very noisy fan in the bedroom. They help most of the time except > when things really ramp up. There are also downloadable programs or CDs to use to generate white noise. Some T folks use a radio station tuned to static to help them get to sleep, or to mask T.
Susan
Jenny - 14 Dec 2005 17:30 GMT >> 1. No aspirin or any NSAID for pain, ever. Tylenol does not make >> tinnitus worse. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > or drug, and I can now take NSAIDS if I need them, with no worsening of > my T. For me "temporarily elevated" translates into terror, because you don't don't if tinnitus worsening is temporary until it goes away. I was told my permanent tinnitus (caused by a salicycilate) was "temporary", but it never went away. So any further worsening caused by a drug or food is very frightening.
> In my case, tinnitus was caused by brain infection.
> Sometimes tinnitus is caused by or associated with thyroid > dysregulation, too. > > I have at least one abstract finding that a low calorie, very low carb > diet improved T a great deal. Alas, not for me. I had hoped this would be the case, but low carbing did not make any difference in my tinnitus.
>> 3. Read the prescribing information (available online) for any drug >> you are taking and if it says "Tinnitus" anywhere in the list of side [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Sometimes. Not every effect noted in prescribing info is an effect of > the drug; sometimes it's just something reported during a trial. This line of reasoning is why I have permanent tinnitus. I got temporary tinnitus from a drug and was stupid enough to believe my doctor when she said it was only temporary and that after it went away (which it did) it would be safe to take the drug at a lower dose. I took one more half dose--ONE, and have had permanent tinnitus ever since. This was more than seven years ago.
> Further, in my own case, it was important to find out that although > tinnitus initially worsened to an insanity inducing roar on doxycycline, > it was a temporary reaction to due bacterial dieoff (endotoxin release) > that got better, not worse, the longer I took the antibiotic. Had to > research this at length before I had the confidence to continue with the > drug, since the jet engine in my head was the worst thing imaginable. Tinnitus is not a side effect of Doxycycline listed in the prescribing information, and it is a very old drug so the side effects are well known. This makes it believable that the tinnitus worsening was not caused by the drug but by some characteristic of your disease. I've taken it a couple times since developing tinnitus with no problem at all. Can't say the same for Zithromax which caused serious worsening.
The frustrating part about tinnitus is that there doesn't seem to be any way of diagnosing what causes it and hence, what will make it worse. Even worse, because it can't be measured by anything but the word of the patient, a lot of doctors who haven't experienced it seem to treat it as unimportant, or even worse, a neurotic symptom.
Anyone who has experienced it, even temporarily, quickly learns this is false, but lacking any way of verifying the symptom, there's little any doctor will do, except possibly to prescribe a drug of the Valium family which is seriously addictive.
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