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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / December 2005An inflammation fighting fat
G'day G'day Folks, Many posters are aware that SARS killed by over stimulating an inflammatory response. One relatively successful treatment was to give prednisone. Maybe the same will be true of the Asian bird flu if it manages to cross the bridge to use human to human transmission. Whatever, on a much less grand scale, it should be recognised that some foods are anti-inflammatory. Here is future possibility getting an airing. http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20051029/food.asp It could be that the writer has the cis trans conjugated linoleic acids from grass and grain fed cattle swapped. I'd appreciates someone else's comments on this matter. Best wishes,  SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > It could be that the writer has the cis trans conjugated linoleic > acids from grass and grain fed cattle swapped. I'd appreciates > someone else's comments on this matter. > > Best wishes, Hi there Quentin, My knowledge in such things is very limited to the point of being only slightly above non-existant. But, I have a recollection of you saying one time that the trans-fats found in dairy were different from the manufactured ones, in that the body has enzymes(?) that are able to do things that make it non-damaging. Is that of any help for this situation? Annette | G'day G'day Folks, | [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] | | Best wishes, Well I don't know if this helps or not, but my GP doctor found that I test positive for HLA-B27. Which is associated with many auto-immune diseases. My GP also thinks that I might have Ankylosing Spondylitis as well. I know the Pain Clinic doctor diagnosed me with Sacroiliitis, and from the blood test being positive my GP now confirms the diagnosis. Sacroliliitis is inflammation of the sacroiliac joint. You can read more about it here: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003551.htm LOL so you can say, I'm the Queen of Inflamation! She did mention that if I wanted to try to adjust my insulin accordingly that I should be drinking 3-4 8oz glasses of whole milk a day to help with the carteledge (err I killed that word) and eat cheese often ... She mentioned it for the calcium which I was good on in my labs, but she felt I could use more of a natural source to help me some. I'm still waiting on the call from the Rheumatologist from the referal she gave me. Called yesterday asking since they'd not called. LOL my doctor took the day off. Good thing I wasn't dying eh? Anyhoo... HTH. RK, t1 This post not CC'd by email >LOL so you can say, I'm the Queen of Inflamation! G'day G'day Reisa, Several people have written excellent books on anti-inflammatory diets ie Jack Challem and Dr Barry Sears. I'm due out for lunch so today you'll have to look up the details from Google. With reference to the possible Asian bird flu the key hypothesis as I see it is the "cytokine storm." http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/health_news/281003flu.html Best wishes with the rheumatoidologist. SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > With reference to the possible Asian bird flu the key hypothesis as I > see it is the "cytokine storm." > > http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/health_news/281003flu.html Ah! I wondered why the authorities were planning on relying so heavily on the tamiflu drug, but that makes sense. Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/74/72Kg Hi Quentin: > G'day G'day Folks, > > Many posters are aware that SARS killed by over stimulating an > inflammatory response. One relatively successful treatment was to > give prednisone. Maybe the same will be true of the Asian bird flu if > it manages to cross the bridge to use human to human transmission. Oxidative stress and inflammation are a big deal in type 2 diabetics. The levels of COX-2 are usually high. You have mentioned the Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio numerous times in the past 3 years. The topic of CLA competion for the elongation and delta 5 and 6 desaturase enzymes with Omega 6s and 3s have also been mentioned. A scholar.google.com search for COX-2+type+2+diabetes+intestinal resulted in 180 finds - http://tinyurl.com/doqnr. A similar search substituting inflammation for intestinal resulted in 376 finds - http://tinyurl.com/dsf2n. I had used the minimal dose of VIOXX before it was pulled from the market. My aches and pains felt a lot better then than now. ;) Inhibition of Interleukin-1ß-Induced COX-2 and EP3 Gene Expression by Sodium Salicylate Enhances Pancreatic Islet ß-Cell Function - http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/51/6/1772 (Note that co-author, R. Paul Robertson has written extensively on diabetic issues, including many on oxidative stress - http://tinyurl.com/alf3w.) Interleukin-1ß has more sever consequences than TNF-a. Fat tissues produce a lot of TNF-a and NAC can counter some of it. NF-{KAPPA}B is involved in interleukin-1ß production. Interleukin-1ß is not usually found in healthy pancreatic beta cells, but is found in type 1 DM. > Whatever, on a much less grand scale, it should be recognised that > some foods are anti-inflammatory. Here is future possibility getting > an airing. > > http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20051029/food.asp The dairy industry is big in Wisconsin, but it is possible that the reseachers at Univ. of Wisc. could be objective. > It could be that the writer has the cis trans conjugated linoleic > acids from grass and grain fed cattle swapped. I'd appreciates > someone else's comments on this matter. The abstract will not answer your question. 10t,12c-conjugated linoleic acid inhibits lipopolysaccharide-induced cyclooxygenase expression in vitro and in vivo - http://www.jlr.org/cgi/content/abstract/46/10/2134 I capitalized some key words below to make them standout. I know it's science speak. In essence, it looks like several kinds of CLA reduce inflammation and pain. I don't recall the CLAs that are naturally occuring (and can be obtained by diet) versus those that are man-made (and may be obtained by supplements). "Previous data demonstrated that conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) reduced eicosanoid release from select organs. We hypothesized that one active CLA isomer was responsible for the reduced prostaglandin release and that the mechanism was through the inhibition of inducible cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2). Here, we examined the effects of 10t,12c-CLA and 9c,11t-CLA on COX-2 protein/mRNA expression, prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) production, and the mechanism by which CLA affects COX-2 expression and prostaglandin release. The COX-2 PROTEIN EXPRESSION LEVEL was INHIBITED 80% by 10t, 12c-CLA and 26% by 9c,11t-CLA at 100 µM IN VITRO. PGE2 production was decreased from 5.39 to 1.12 ng/2 x 106 cells by 10t,12c-CLA and from 5.7 to 4.5 ng/2 x 106 cells by 9c,11t-CLA at 100 µM. Mice fed 10t,12c-CLA but not 9c,11t-CLA were found to have a 34% decrease in COX-2 protein and a 43% reduction of PGE2 release in the LUNG. 10t,12c-CLA reduced COX-2 mRNA EXPRESSION LEVEL by 30% at 100 µM IN VITRO and by 30% in mouse LUNG IN VIVO. Reduced COX-2 mRNA was attributable to an INHIBITION of the NUCLEAR FACTOR {KAPPA}B (NF-{kappa}B) PATHWAY by 10t,12c-CLA. These data suggested that the INHIBITION of NF-{KAPPA}B was one of the mechanisms for the REDUCED COX-2 EXPRESSION and PGE2 release by 10t,12c-CLA." I suppose you read the other articles cited and linked in Science News. Frank > Interleukin-1ß has more sever consequences than TNF-a. Fat tissues > produce a lot of TNF-a and NAC can counter some of it. NF-{KAPPA}B is > involved in interleukin-1ß production. Interleukin-1ß is not usually > found in healthy pancreatic beta cells, but is found in type 1 DM. The following is an abstract of a new article. Another version of the nut trick, first you see and then you don't. Maybe? ;) Chronic Oxidative Stress as a Central Mechanism for Glucose Toxicity in Pancreatic Islet Beta Cells in Diabetes - http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/54/11/3238 "Different degrees of ß-cell failure and apoptosis are present in type 1 and type 2 diabetes. It has been recently suggested that high glucose–induced ß-cell apoptosis in type 2 diabetes shares a final common pathway with type 1 diabetes, involving interleukin-1ß (IL-1ß) production by ß-cells, nuclear factor-{kappa}B (NF-{kappa}B) activation, and death via Fas-FasL. The aim of this study was to test whether human islet exposure to high glucose in vitro, or to the type 2 diabetes environment in vivo, induces IL-1ß expression and consequent activation of NF-{kappa}B–dependent genes. ... The present findings suggest that high glucose in vitro, or the diabetic milieu in vivo, does not induce IL-1ß production or NF-{kappa}B activation in human islets. This makes it unlikely that locally produced IL-1ß is an important mediator of glucotoxicity to human islets and argues against the IL-1ß–NF-{kappa}B–Fas pathway as a common mediator for ß-cell death in type 1 and type 2 diabetes." Frank This post not CC'd by email On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:52:49 -0400, Jefferson <croom1935@netscape.net> wrote: >> Interleukin-1ß has more sever consequences than TNF-a. Fat tissues >> produce a lot of TNF-a and NAC can counter some of it. NF-{KAPPA}B is [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Frank OK, is it still regarded as fact that astaxanthin, the pink stuff in shrimps and salmon reduces beta cell apoptosis? Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin Hi Quentin: (snipped) > OK, is it still regarded as fact that astaxanthin, the pink stuff in > shrimps and salmon reduces beta cell apoptosis? I did not find much published on this topic. Astaxanthin protects beta-cells against glucose toxicity in diabetic db/db mice - http://tinyurl.com/b5moj. Frank This post not CC'd by email On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 11:58:14 -0400, Jefferson <croom1935@netscape.net> wrote: >A scholar.google.com search for COX-2+type+2+diabetes+intestinal >resulted in 180 finds - http://tinyurl.com/doqnr. G'day G'day Frank, The following URL contains some revealing comments on why olives, avocados, macadamias and almonds are "in" foods for T2 diabetics and vegetable oils are "out". http://www.iformix.com/journals/1/1713161.pdf The reason why dyslipidaemia and hyperglycaemia are associated with accelerated atherosclerosis stems from an understanding of the LDL receptor that does not recognise modified LDL. Two modifications of LDL occur in diabetes, glycation and oxidation. When the particle is glycated due to the rise in blood sugar it is taken up in an unregulated way by the cell and fails to downregulate cellular cholesterol synthesis. LDL oxidation leads to macrophage cholesterol accumulation and foam cell formation. We have demonstrated that LDL oxidisability is increased in Type II diabetes. This is possibly due to the increase in free radical production associated with hyperglycaemia. LDL oxidisability is also related to the linoleic acid content of the LDL and some studies show an increase in linoleic acid in the LDL particle in diabetes. This may be due to previous advice to people with diabetes (which is no longer given) to change dietary fat to polyunsaturated fat the advice now is to use a monounsaturated fat instead of saturated fat. Linoleic acid could also be increased in diabetes because there is an association between insulin sensitivity and fatty acid metabolism probably through the effect of insulin on the desaturase enzymes. We have demonstrated that changing to a monounsaturated fat diet improves this abnormal atherogenic LDL produced by people with diabetes. Atherosclerosis is part of an inflammatory process Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin This post not CC'd by email On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 11:58:14 -0400, Jefferson <croom1935@netscape.net> wrote: >I had used the minimal dose of VIOXX before it was pulled from the >market. My aches and pains felt a lot better then than now. ;) G'day G'day Frank, Have you tried, 1. extra virgin olive oil with a peppery aftertaste. 2. turmeric tablets with 95% curcumnoid content 3. tahini paste made from unhulled sesame seed. Sesamin, the lignan present in sesame hulls inhibits the conversion of gamma linoleic acid (an anti-inflammatory precursor) to arachidonic acid (an inflammatory precursor) though turmeric is better. Some GLA is sold blended with sesamin. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin Hi Quentin: > G'day G'day Frank, > > Have you tried, > > 1. extra virgin olive oil with a peppery aftertaste. Yes, about a teaspoon at breakfast > 2. turmeric tablets with 95% curcumnoid content No, but I have recently read about a mimetic of SOD that uses curcumin as one of it's major ingredient. Free Radic Biol Med. 2005 Sep 15;39(6):811-22. Evaluation of a new copper(II)-curcumin complex as superoxide dismutase mimic and its free radical reactions. Barik A, Mishra B, Shen L, Mohan H, Kadam RM, Dutta S, Zhang HY, Priyadarsini KI. Radiation Chemistry and Chemical Dynamics Division, Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, Trombay, Mumbai 400085, India. A mononuclear (1:1) copper complex of curcumin, a phytochemical from turmeric, was synthesized and examined for its superoxide dismutase (SOD) activity. The complex was characterized by elemental analysis, IR, NMR, UV-VIS, EPR, mass spectroscopic methods and TG-DTA, from which it was found that a copper atom is coordinated through the keto-enol group of curcumin along with one acetate group and one water molecule. Cyclic voltammetric studies of the complex showed a reversible Cu(2+)/Cu(+) couple with a potential of 0.402 V vs NHE. The Cu(II)-curcumin complex is soluble in lipids and DMSO, and insoluble in water. It scavenges superoxide radicals with a rate constant of 1.97 x 10(5) M(-1) s(-1) in DMSO determined by stopped-flow spectrometer. Subsequent to the reaction with superoxide radicals, the complex was found to be regenerated completely, indicating catalytic activity in neutralizing superoxide radicals. Complete regeneration of the complex was observed, even when the stoichiometry of superoxide radicals was 10 times more than that of the complex. This was further confirmed by EPR monitoring of superoxide radicals. The SOD mimicking activity of the complex was determined by xanthine/xanthine oxidase assay, from which it has been found that 5 mug of the complex is equivalent to 1 unit of SOD. The complex inhibits radiation-induced lipid peroxidation and shows radical-scavenging ability. It reacts with DPPH radicals with rate constant 10 times less than that of curcumin. Pulse radiolysis-induced one-electron oxidation of the complex by azide radicals in TX-100 micellar solutions produced strongly absorbing ( approximately 500 nm) phenoxyl radicals, indicating that the phenolic moiety of curcumin remained intact on complexation with copper. The results confirm that the new Cu(II)-curcumin complex possesses SOD activity, free radical neutralizing ability, and antioxidant potential. Quantum chemical calculations with density functional theory have been performed to support the experimental observations. PMID: 16109310 > 3. tahini paste made from unhulled sesame seed. Sesamin, the lignan > present in sesame hulls inhibits the conversion of gamma linoleic acid > (an anti-inflammatory precursor) to arachidonic acid (an inflammatory > precursor) though turmeric is better. Some GLA is sold blended with > sesamin. I haven't tried this either. I suspect that my polyunsaturated balance is fairly good unless I eat to much red meat. I could cut back on arachidonic acid by eating less red meat. I use 4 grams of fish oil capsules/day and my lipid profile is excellent over a 3 year period. Frank > Hi Quentin: > > G'day G'day Frank, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > No, but I have recently read about a mimetic of SOD that uses curcumin > as one of it's major ingredient. Just as a matter of interest, piperine, found naturally in plants belonging to the Piperaceae family, such as Piper nigrum L, commonly known as black pepper, and Piper longum L, may enhance the effect and anti-inflamatory properties of other herbs such as curcumin. Personally, since reading this and other articles on the subject, I always add black pepper to any dish containing tumeric. Some recent research suggests that piperine may enhance the bioavailability of some drugs and nutritional substances. See; http://www.gettingwell.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/pip_0322.shtml Piperine You may wish to follow up the references given at the bottom of this article to gain more detailed info on the relevant studies. Annette This post not CC'd by email On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:24:42 GMT, "Annette" <acianthus@bigpond.com> wrote: >ust as a matter of interest, piperine, found naturally in plants belonging >to the Piperaceae family, such as Piper nigrum L, commonly known as black [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Personally, since reading this and other articles on the subject, I always >add black pepper to any dish containing tumeric. G'day G'day Annette, Occasionally I buy steak and pan fry it with EVOO. I grind on lots of black pepper and sprinkle on turmeric. As well as adding pepper to the turmeric, one can also add turmeric to the pepper. It is all a matter of mind set. like the monks who on receiving a "No" as to whether it was OK to smoke as they prayed, asked if it was OK to pray as they smoked. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >This post not CC'd by email > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >black pepper and sprinkle on turmeric. As well as adding pepper to >the turmeric, one can also add turmeric to the pepper. Any idea how much Black Pepper is too much? I've long been notorious for using large amounts of it, to the point where it is a joke among my relatives. >It is all a matter of mind set. like the monks who on receiving a "No" >as to whether it was OK to smoke as they prayed, asked if it was OK to >pray as they smoked. ROFL!!!!!!!! > Any idea how much Black Pepper is too much? I've long been notorious > for using large amounts of it, to the point where it is a joke among > my relatives. No such thing! I've been known to sprinkle ground pepper on pepper steak : ) I also like Brie with pepper, avocado with pepper, pepper on crackers... Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/74/72Kg >> Any idea how much Black Pepper is too much? I've long been notorious >> for using large amounts of it, to the point where it is a joke among >> my relatives. > >No such thing! I've been known to sprinkle ground pepper on pepper steak : ) >I also like Brie with pepper, avocado with pepper, pepper on crackers... A fellow pepper-a-holic!!! :-) I sometimes even "flour" my meat in pepper (or pepper and mustard powder) now that I can't use flour anymore... > This post not CC'd by email > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > as to whether it was OK to smoke as they prayed, asked if it was OK to > pray as they smoked. LOL I guess it all depends on how well one likes pepper. Although I am happy with pepper in wet dishes, I do not, and never have liked pepper steak. Or any food that has pepper as the predominent flavour/spice. But for those who do, putting the tumeric as the add-on makes sense. It perhaps may be worth pointing out (for those who think of "peppers" as being a chilli), that although the capsaicin found in the chilli family has it's own valuable benefits, it is not the ingredient being discussed here. The active ingredient is pipperine, and is only found in black pepper. I do like the way you think laterally, though! Annette This post not CC'd by email On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 09:08:18 GMT, "Annette" <acianthus@bigpond.com> wrote: >I do like the way you think laterally, though! > >Annette True. Some of my best ideas come when I'm asleep. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > This post not CC'd by email > On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 09:08:18 GMT, "Annette" <acianthus@bigpond.com> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Best wishes, That's not laterally, that's horizontally! I too have wonderful ideas while I'm asleep. None of them are about nutrition though! Annette >> True. Some of my best ideas come when I'm asleep. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Annette I have some brilliant, incredible insights when I'm asleep. I know, because I wake with the lingering "what a great idea!!" thought at the back of my brain. Of course, I can never quite remember what it is - but I know it was brilliant. I tried writing them down with a notebook by the bed, but unfortunately I never learned how to read swahili in a hand that looks like it was penned by an arthritic monkey. *sigh* - but I know they were brilliant.... Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. This post not CC'd by email On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 09:08:18 GMT, "Annette" <acianthus@bigpond.com> wrote: >I guess it all depends on how well one likes pepper. Although I am happy >with pepper in wet dishes, I do not, and never have liked pepper steak. Or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >it's own valuable benefits, it is not the ingredient being discussed here. >The active ingredient is pipperine, and is only found in black pepper. G'day G'day Annette, I'm still trying to figure out how I should interpret Frank's info on a synergism between green tea and piperine. Should I drink green tea with the black pepper and turmeric steak? Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:42:12 +1300 in article <otdem1t35k4q4aqrkaapvi03butigf5jb4@4ax.com> Quentin Grady <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote: >This post not CC'd by email > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Should I drink green tea with the black pepper and turmeric steak? Well, piperine does help the absorption of curcumin in turmeric and EGCG in green tea: Shoba G, Joy D, Joseph T, Majeed M, Rajendran R, Srinivas PS. Influence of piperine on the pharmacokinetics of curcumin in animals and human volunteers. Planta Med. 1998 May;64(4):353-6. PMID: 9619120 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=9 619120&dopt=Abstract> Lambert JD, Hong J, Kim DH, Mishin VM, Yang CS. Piperine enhances the bioavailability of the tea polyphenol (-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate in mice. J Nutr. 2004 Aug;134(8):1948-52. PMID: 15284381 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/8/1948> But these good news come with the caution: piperine may also enhance the absorption of some drugs and potentiate their effects. Its effects in this are similar to those of grapefruit juice. They both inhibit P-glycoprotein and cytochrome P450 enzyme CYP3A4. References: Bhardwaj RK, Glaeser H, Becquemont L, Klotz U, Gupta SK, Fromm MF. Piperine, a major constituent of black pepper, inhibits human P-glycoprotein and CYP3A4. J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2002 Aug;302(2):645-50. PMID: 12130727 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/302/2/645> Flanagan D. Understanding the grapefruit-drug interaction. Gen Dent. 2005 Jul-Aug;53(4):282-5; quiz 286. PMID: 16158798 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=16158798> "Grapefruit components inhibit CYP3A4 drug oxidation and P-glycoprotein transportation, allowing more systemic drug bioavailability." Zhou S, Lim LY, Chowbay B. Herbal modulation of P-glycoprotein. Drug Metab Rev. 2004 Feb;36(1):57-104. Review. PMID: 15072439 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=15072439> Delgoda R, Westlake AC. Herbal interactions involving cytochrome p450 enzymes: a mini review. Toxicol Rev. 2004;23(4):239-49. Review. PMID: 15898829 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=15898829> So piperine and grapefruit inhibit both the drug transporter P-glycoprotein, which blocks the absorption in the gut, and the intestinal cytochrome P-450 3A4 system (specifically: CYP3A4 - mediated drug metabolism), which is responsible for the first-pass metabolism of many medications. In other words piperine and grapefruit may potentiate the effects of drugs, whose absorption may be blocked by P-glycoprotein, and which are metabolized with the help of CYP3A4 enzyme. This inhibition happens in the small intestine, so more of the drug will stay intact and get absorbed. If you use some medication, don't take piperine or piperine containing curcumin supplement within several hours before or after taking the medication, unless you are absolutely sure that it has no interaction with piperine. And consult the doctor, who prescribed the drug, before even considering taking piperine containing supplements. Having said that, piperine (and grapefruit) is a natural substance and ethnic groups using considerable amount of pepper in their cooking, will almost always have a certain amount of piperine or its metabolites in their intestine and serum, which may affect the effect of drugs they are using. Links about P-glycoprotein and cytochrome P450 system: P-glycoprotein <http://www.mhc.com/PGP/PgpMain.HTML>: "What are P-glycoproteins? P-glycoproteins are part of a larger family of efflux transporters found in the gut, gonads, kidneys, biliary system, brain and other organs. They appear to have developed as a mechanism to protect the body from harmful substances. Using ATP as an energy source, they transport certain hydrophobic substances in the following directions: * into the gut * out of the brain * into urine * into bile * out of the gonads * out of other organs PGPs play a large role in the distribution and elimination of many clinically important therapeutic substances.. Prescription and OTC drugs, foods and substances made by the body may be inhibitors and/or inducers of these transporters. Some drugs like cyclosporin are both substrates and inhibitors of PGP, other drugs like nifedipine are inhibitors only and some drugs like digoxin are only substrates. Since PGPs block absorption in the gut, they should be considered part of the "first-pass effect". In fact, they can "set up" or act as "gatekeepers" for later P450 cytochrome actions. If one drug is a substrate of both PGP and CYP3A4 (both found in close proximity in the intestinal wall), and a second drug is added that is an inhibitor of both PGP and CYP 3A4 (e.g., ketoconazole, erythromycin, mibefradil), then the first drug will be allowed in increased amounts. Since CYP3A4 is inhibited, levels of unmetabolized drug will enter the blood. The effect of PGP blockade is to "open the gates" so that the later actions of CYP3A4 inhibition will be increased." CYTOCHROME P450 <http://www.medhelp.org/glossary2/new/gls_1530.htm> Clinically significant drug interactions What you need to know before writing prescriptions Michael D. Johnson, PharmD; Gary Newkirk, MD; John R. White Jr, PharmD VOL 105 / NO 2 / FEBRUARY 1999 / POSTGRADUATE MEDICINE http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/1999/02_99/johnson.htm Cytochrome P450 <http://www.anaesthetist.com/physiol/basics/metabol/cyp/cyp.htm> Overview of Drug Interactions http://www.uspharmacist.com/oldformat.asp?url=newlook/files/feat/mar00drugintera ctions.htm Cytochrome P450 3A Subfamily drug interactions http://www.uspharmacist.com/oldformat.asp?url=newlook/files/feat/acf2ed6.htm The Cytochrome P450 Enzymes <http://www.ama-assn.org/special/hiv/newsline/briefing/cytochro.htm> Drug-Interactions.com <http://medicine.iupui.edu/flockhart/> Cytochrome P450 <http://www.mall-net.com/mcs/p450.html> Cytochrome P450 Enzymes <http://home.earthlink.net/~cpardee/> Cytochrome P450 Homepage <http://drnelson.utmem.edu/CytochromeP450.html> Cytochrome P450 isoform-specific in vitro methods to predict drug metabolism and interactions Päivi Taavitsainen Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, University of Oulu Academic Dissertation to be presented with the assent of the Faculty of Medicine, University of Oulu, for public discussion in the Auditorium of the Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, on February 24th, 2001, at 12 noon. <http://herkules.oulu.fi/isbn9514259009/> SignatureMatti Narkia <lots of good stuff snipped> Matti, I'm a relative newcomer here - forgive me if I'm asking obvious questions - but who are you? Are you diabetic? You've added more to my reading pile than I can cope with in a hurry. (Thanks!) Do you have a specialist interest in all this? Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/73/72Kg Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:39:39 -0000 in article <3v1f9eF130co2U1@individual.net> ><lots of good stuff snipped> > >Matti, I'm a relative newcomer here - forgive me if I'm asking obvious >questions - but who are you? Are you diabetic? You've added more to my >reading pile than I can cope with in a hurry. (Thanks!) Do you have a >specialist interest in all this? Nicky, I'm not diabetic myself, but I have four type 2 diabetics in my family, therefore I follow this group now and then, but don't usually post. I post to some other newsgroups such as sci.med.nutrition, sci.life-extension, sci.med.cardiology, and a Finnish health related newsgroup sfnet.keskustelu.terveys, to which I've fairly regularly posted for about 10 years now. I'm a Finnish speaking Finn, living in Helsinki, Finland. Now I happened come to this group following a thread in sci.med.cardiology, which was crossposted to this group by someone. Then I found some interesting threads here, too. Some of them dealt with the topics I had recently discussed in other groups, so I just thought to give a little bit back to this group instead of only lurking here now and then. I'm glad you found the posted information interesting. Best wishes, SignatureMatti Narkia > Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:39:39 -0000 in article <3v1f9eF130co2U1@individual.net> > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > -- > Matti Narkia You also used to post in misc.health.diabetes years ago, that's where I remember you from. I think you posted there when Lydick was still alive, and Mickey Devine was swishing his way through... Vicki > Nicky, I'm not diabetic myself, but I have four type 2 diabetics in my > family, therefore I follow this group now and then, but don't usually > post. Wow! I hope you're going to continue to post! Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/73/72Kg Hi Annette: > Just as a matter of interest, piperine, found naturally in plants belonging > to the Piperaceae family, such as Piper nigrum L, commonly known as black [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://www.gettingwell.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/pip_0322.shtml > Piperine You remember the thread that mentioned piperine and green tree having symbiotic effects? I had to repost since I didn't want someone to think that I was suggesting adding piperine to their tea. ;) Frank Sun, 30 Oct 2005 16:16:56 +1300 in article <fce8m1l6fp17k8tl6ce1lhrq1kqq2a2bmd@4ax.com> Quentin Grady <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote: >This post not CC'd by email > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >precursor) though turmeric is better. Some GLA is sold blended with >sesamin. The enzyme required for conversion of DGLA to arachidonic acid is delta-5-desaturase. In addition to sesamin, curcumin, the most active curcuminoid in turmeric, and EPA in fish oil also inhibit delta-5-desaturase. Sesamin and some other bioactive substances in sesame seeds also have antihypertensive and other beneficial effects. More about this in the following references: Rubin D, Laposata M. Cellular interactions between n-6 and n-3 fatty acids: a mass analysis of fatty acid elongation/desaturation, distribution among complex lipids, and conversion to eicosanoids. J Lipid Res. 1992 Oct;33(10):1431-40. PMID: 1472257 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1 472257&dopt=Abstract> Barham JB, Edens MB, Fonteh AN, Johnson MM, Easter L, Chilton FH. Addition of eicosapentaenoic acid to gamma-linolenic acid-supplemented diets prevents serum arachidonic acid accumulation in humans. J Nutr. 2000 Aug;130(8):1925-31. PMID: 10917903 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/130/8/1925> Kawashima H, Akimoto K, Jareonkitmongkol S, Shirasaka N, Shimizu S. Inhibition of rat liver microsomal desaturases by curcumin and related compounds. Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 1996 Jan;60(1):108-10. PMID: 8824830 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8 824830&dopt=Abstract> Shimizu S, Jareonkitmongkol S, Kawashima H, Akimoto K, Yamada H. Inhibitory effect of curcumin on fatty acid desaturation in Mortierella alpina 1S-4 and rat liver microsomes. Lipids. 1992 Jul;27(7):509-12. PMID: 1453881 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1 453881&dopt=Abstract> Umeda-Sawada R, Takahashi N, Igarashi O. Interaction of sesamin and eicosapentaenoic acid against delta 5 desaturation and n-6/n-3 ratio of essential fatty acids in rat. Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 1995 Dec;59(12):2268-73. PMID: 8611750 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=8611750> Chavali SR, Zhong WW, Utsunomiya T, Forse RA Decreased production of interleukin-1-beta, prostaglandin-E2 and thromboxane-B2, and elevated levels of interleukin-6 and -10 are associated with increased survival during endotoxic shock in mice consuming diets enriched with sesame seed oil supplemented with Quil-A saponin. Int Arch Allergy Immunol. 1997 Oct;114(2):153-60. PMID: 9338609 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=9338609 "Sesamin, present in sesame seed oil (SSO), can inhibit delta-5-desaturase activity and cause accumulation of dihomo-gamma-linolenic acid (DGLA), which displaces arachidonic acid, a and subsequently decrease production of dienoic eicosanoids." Fujiyama-Fujiwara Y, Umeda R, Igarashi O. Effects of sesamin and curcumin on delta 5-desaturation and chain elongation of polyunsaturated fatty acid metabolism in primary cultured rat hepatocytes. J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 1992 Aug;38(4):353-63. PMID: 1291640 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1 291640&dopt=Abstract> Fujiyama-Fujiwara Y, Umeda-Sawada R, Kuzuyama M, Igarashi O. Effects of sesamin on the fatty acid composition of the liver of rats fed N-6 and N-3 fatty acid-rich diet. J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 1995 Apr;41(2):217-25. PMID: 7562115 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=7562115> Chavali SR, Forse RA. Decreased production of interleukin-6 and prostaglandin E2 associated with inhibition of delta-5 desaturation of omega6 fatty acids in mice fed safflower oil diets supplemented with sesamol. Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 1999 Dec;61(6):347-52. PMID: 10718106 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=10718106&query_hl=37> Gu JY, Wakizono Y, Dohi A, Nonaka M, Sugano M, Yamada K Effect of dietary fats and sesamin on the lipid metabolism and immune function of Sprague-Dawley rats. Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 1998 Oct;62(10):1917-24. PMID: 9836427 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=9836427> Umeda-Sawada R, Ogawa M, Igarashi O. The metabolism and n-6/n-3 ratio of essential fatty acids in rats: effect of dietary arachidonic acid and a mixture of sesame lignans (sesamin and episesamin). Lipids. 1998 Jun;33(6):567-72. PMID: 9655371 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=9655371> Umeda-Sawada R, Ogawa M, Nakamura M, Igarashi O. Effect of sesamin on mitochondrial and peroxisomal beta-oxidation of arachidonic and eicosapentaenoic acids in rat liver. Lipids. 2001 May;36(5):483-9. PMID: 11432461 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=11432461> Yamashita K, Kagaya M, Higuti N, Kiso Y. Sesamin and alpha-tocopherol synergistically suppress lipid-peroxide in rats fed a high docosahexaenoic acid diet. Biofactors. 2000;11(1-2):11-3. PMID: 10705949 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=10705949Z Nakano D, Itoh C, Ishii F, Kawanishi H, Takaoka M, Kiso Y, Tsuruoka N, Tanaka T, Matsumura Y. Effects of sesamin on aortic oxidative stress and endothelial dysfunction in deoxycorticosterone acetate-salt hypertensive rats. Biol Pharm Bull. 2003 Dec;26(12):1701-5. PMID: 14646174 [PubMed - in process] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=14646174> Noguchi T, Ikeda K, Sasaki Y, Yamamoto J, Seki J, Yamagata K, Nara Y, Hara H, Kakuta H, Yamori Y. Effects of vitamin E and sesamin on hypertension and cerebral thrombogenesis in stroke-prone spontaneously hypertensive rats. Hypertens Res. 2001 Nov;24(6):735-42. PMID: 11768736 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=11768736> Matsumura Y, Kita S, Ohgushi R, Okui T. Effects of sesamin on altered vascular reactivity in aortic rings of deoxycorticosterone acetate-salt-induced hypertensive rat. Biol Pharm Bull. 2000 Sep;23(9):1041-5. PMID: 10993201 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=10993201> Ogawa H, Sasagawa S, Murakami T, Yoshizumi H. Sesame lignans modulate cholesterol metabolism in the stroke-prone spontaneously hypertensive rat. Clin Exp Pharmacol Physiol Suppl. 1995 Dec;22(1):S310-2. PMID: 9072406 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=9072406> Nakano D, Itoh C, Takaoka M, Kiso Y, Tanaka T, Matsumura Y. Antihypertensive effect of sesamin. IV. Inhibition of vascular superoxide production by sesamin. Biol Pharm Bull. 2002 Sep;25(9):1247-9. PMID: 12230131 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=12230131> Matsumura Y, Kita S, Tanida Y, Taguchi Y, Morimoto S, Akimoto K, Tanaka T. Antihypertensive effect of sesamin. III. Protection against development and maintenance of hypertension in stroke-prone spontaneously hypertensive rats. Biol Pharm Bull. 1998 May;21(5):469-73. PMID: 9635502 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=9635502 Kita S, Matsumura Y, Morimoto S, Akimoto K, Furuya M, Oka N, Tanaka T. Antihypertensive effect of sesamin. II. Protection against two-kidney, one-clip renal hypertension and cardiovascular hypertrophy. Biol Pharm Bull. 1995 Sep;18(9):1283-5. PMID: 8845824 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=8845824> Matsumura Y, Kita S, Morimoto S, Akimoto K, Furuya M, Oka N, Tanaka T. Antihypertensive effect of sesamin. I. Protection against deoxycorticosterone acetate-salt-induced hypertension and cardiovascular hypertrophy. Biol Pharm Bull. 1995 Jul;18(7):1016-9. PMID: 7581242 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=7581242> Frank J, Kamal-Eldin A, Traber MG. Consumption of sesame oil muffins decreases the urinary excretion of gamma-tocopherol metabolites in humans. Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2004 Dec;1031:365-7. PMID: 15753171 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=15753171> Penalvo JL, Heinonen SM, Aura AM, Adlercreutz H. Dietary sesamin is converted to enterolactone in humans. J Nutr. 2005 May;135(5):1056-62. PMID: 15867281 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/135/5/1056> Jeng KC, Hou RC, Wang JC, Ping LI. Sesamin inhibits lipopolysaccharide-induced cytokine production by suppression of p38 mitogen-activated protein kinase and nuclear factor-kappaB. Immunol Lett. 2005 Feb 15;97(1):101-6. PMID: 15626481 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=15626481> Kiso Y. Antioxidative roles of sesamin, a functional lignan in sesame seed, and it's effect on lipid- and alcohol-metabolism in the liver: a DNA microarray study. Biofactors. 2004;21(1-4):191-6. PMID: 15630196 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=15630196> Lee SY, Ha TY, Son DJ, Kim SR, Hong JT Effect of sesaminol glucosides on beta-amyloid-induced PC12 cell death through antioxidant mechanisms. Neurosci Res. 2005 Aug;52(4):330-41. PMID: 15885833 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=15885833> Utsunomiya T, Shimada M, Rikimaru T, Hasegawa H, Yamashita Y, Hamatsu T, Yamasaki M, Kaku S, Yamada K, Sugimachi K. Antioxidant and anti-inflammatory effects of a diet supplemented with sesamin on hepatic ischemia-reperfusion injury in rats. Hepatogastroenterology. 2003 Sep-Oct;50(53):1609-13. PMID: 14571796 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=14571796> Hou RC, Huang HM, Tzen JT, Jeng KC. Protective effects of sesamin and sesamolin on hypoxic neuronal and PC12 cells. J Neurosci Res. 2003 Oct 1;74(1):123-33. PMID: 13130514 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=1313051> Yamashita K, Ikeda S, Iizuka Y, Ikeda I. Effect of sesaminol on plasma and tissue alpha-tocopherol and alpha-tocotrienol concentrations in rats fed a vitamin E concentrate rich in tocotrienols. Lipids. 2002 Apr;37(4):351-8. PMID: 12030315 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=12030315> Cooney RV, Custer LJ, Okinaka L, Franke AA Effects of dietary sesame seeds on plasma tocopherol levels. Nutr Cancer. 2001;39(1):66-71. PMID: 11588904 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=11588904> Ikeda T, Nishijima Y, Shibata H, Kiso Y, Ohnuki K, Fushiki T, Moritani T. Protective effect of sesamin administration on exercise-induced lipid peroxidation. Int J Sports Med. 2003 Oct;24(7):530-4. PMID: 12968212 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=12968212> Kang MH, Naito M, Tsujihara N, Osawa T. Sesamolin inhibits lipid peroxidation in rat liver and kidney. J Nutr. 1998 Jun;128(6):1018-22. PMID: 9614163 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/128/6/1018> Katsuzaki H, Kawakishi S, Osawa T Sesaminol glucosides in sesame seeds. Phytochemistry. 1994 Feb;35(3):773-6. PMID: 7764592 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=7764592> Nakabayashi A, Kitagawa Y, Suwa Y, Akimoto K, Asami S, Shimizu S, Hirose N, Sugano M, Yamada H. alpha-Tocopherol enhances the action of sesamin in rats. Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1995;65(3):162-8. PMID: 8829994 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=8829994> Hirose N, Inoue T, Nishihara K, Sugano M, Akimoto K, Shimizu S, Yamada H. Inhibition of cholesterol absorption and synthesis in rats by sesamin. J Lipid Res. 1991 Apr;32(4):629-38. PMID: 1856608 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] <http://www.jlr.org/cgi/reprint/32/4/629> SignatureMatti Narkia This post not CC'd by email On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:56:02 +0200, Matti Narkia <narkia@yahoo.com> wrote: >>3. tahini paste made from unhulled sesame seed. Sesamin, the lignan >>present in sesame hulls inhibits the conversion of gamma linoleic acid [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >seeds also have antihypertensive and other beneficial effects. More about >this in the following references: G'day G'day Matti, Great to make your acquaintance again. Welcome once again to asd. For those who don't know Matti is a bloke who really goes the extra mile to research the literature on any topic relevant to the therapeutic aspects of nutrition. FWIIW, folks here aren't usually very scientific minded and much prefer the shorter executive versions. Their outlook is often quite pragmatic. Tell them what works and they'll love you, especially if you can address the issues with food rather than supplements. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:48:29 +1300 in article <gg5no1pf7tvd4rhtn763d2li544gut3gsn@4ax.com> Quentin Grady <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote: >This post not CC'd by email > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >pragmatic. Tell them what works and they'll love you, especially if >you can address the issues with food rather than supplements. Hi Quentin, Ok, I was not going to be a regular pain here anyway, I just happened to follow a crossposted message from another group and found some interesting topics here, which I had recently discussed elsewhere. So I thought why not, I already had the material. But I will probably take off now, see you in another year or two :-) Best wishes, SignatureMatti Narkia >G'day G'day Folks, > > Many posters are aware that SARS killed by over stimulating an >inflammatory response. One relatively successful treatment was to >give prednisone. Maybe the same will be true of the Asian bird flu if >it manages to cross the bridge to use human to human transmission. >Whatever, on a much less grand scale, it should be recognised that >some foods are anti-inflammatory. Here is future possibility getting >an airing. > >http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20051029/food.asp That's very interesting!!! I've long felt that the saturated fat in cheeses is better for you than other forms, though I've had little to base that on until now. >It could be that the writer has the cis trans conjugated linoleic >acids from grass and grain fed cattle swapped. I'd appreciates >someone else's comments on this matter. It looks that way to me, though I'd have never spotted it without your comment... Thanks, yet again, for some wonderful info. This post not CC'd by email On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:24:25 -0700, Chris J. <chris@noadress.com> wrote: >http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20051029/food.asp > >That's very interesting!!! I've long felt that the saturated fat in >cheeses is better for you than other forms, though I've had little to >base that on until now. G'day G'day Chris, Milk contains vaccinic acid, a beneficial transfat manufactured by the digestive bacteria in one of their stomachs. The point is vaccinic acid is easily converted in humans into beneficial CLA. FWIIW it isn't difficult to improve the levels of vaccinic acid in goats milks and hence goat cheese by simply adding some flaxseed meal to their diet. Like you I've never quite been able to figure out why cheese appears healthier than milk for adults. Some cheese eg cottage cheese, is even associated with weightloss in equal energy diets. It is partly to do with the improved calcium intake. There is another factor best explained perhaps with a short anecdote. I once went to a party where folks drunk homemade grappa, distilled white grape wine. Many people drunk it like wine and got plastered. When fat is blended with carbs many people eat it like carbs and find they put on weight. When fat is blended with protein as in cheese, the protein normally triggers the satiety response and they don't. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >This post not CC'd by email > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >goats milks and hence goat cheese by simply adding some flaxseed meal >to their diet. Thank you, I had only barely heard of Vaccinic acid, and had completely forgotten! >Like you I've never quite been able to figure out why cheese appears >healthier than milk for adults. >Some cheese eg cottage cheese, is even associated with weightloss in >equal energy diets. It is partly to do with the improved calcium >intake. Thanks... >There is another factor best explained perhaps with a short anecdote. >I once went to a party where folks drunk homemade grappa, distilled >white grape wine. Many people drunk it like wine and got plastered. >When fat is blended with carbs many people eat it like carbs and find >they put on weight. When fat is blended with protein as in cheese, >the protein normally triggers the satiety response and they don't. That makes perfect sense! I've long noticed that a small amount of cheese satisfies me, but carbs do not. Hi Quentin and Others: > Whatever, on a much less grand scale, it should be recognised that > some foods are anti-inflammatory. Here is future possibility getting > an airing. > > http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20051029/food.asp CLA involves some of the same mechanism as the TZDs, Actos and Avandia. There are graphics in the few articles listed were you can see PPAR gamma which is acted upon by agonist like Actos and Avandia. "... CLA’s ability to modulate human obesity remains controversial because data from clinical trials using mixed isomers are conflicting. In support of some studies in humans, our group demonstrated that trans-10, cis-12 CLA prevents triglyceride (TG) accumulation in primary cultures of differentiating human preadipocytes. In contrast, cis-9, trans-11 CLA increases TG content. Closer examination has revealed that CLA’s antiadipogenic actions are due, at least in part, to regulation of glucose and fatty acid uptake and metabolism. This review presents our current understanding of potential isomer-specific mechanisms by which CLA reduces human adiposity and insulin sensitivity." Source: Conjugated Linoleic Acid in Humans: Regulation of Adiposity and Insulin Sensitivity - http://tinyurl.com/dav7k A few articles citing this article. There are others.: "Conclusion: These findings indicate dietary CLA may positively benefit BMD in postmenopausal women. More studies are warranted examining the relationship between dietary CLA and BMD." Source: Association between Dietary Conjugated Linoleic Acid and Bone Mineral Density in Postmenopausal Women - http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/24/3/177 "The amount of scientific literature on conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is growing at a phenomenal rate. Animal studies and clinical trials indicate the possibility that CLA could be useful in improving human health in a number of areas, eg, controlling body fat gain and enhancing immunity while also reducing inflammation and other adverse effects typically associated with immune enhancement. The background of this growing research field and mechanistic insights from animal and cell culture experiments are briefly reviewed. Experimental and clinical data relating to the safety and effectiveness of CLA in humans are presented and discussed." Source: Perspective on the safety and effectiveness of conjugated linoleic acid - http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/79/6/1132S Frank > CLA involves some of the same mechanism as the TZDs, Actos and Avandia. > There are graphics in the few articles listed were you can see PPAR > gamma which is acted upon by agonist like Actos and Avandia. I didn't give the right link to the article below. Nevertheless CLA appears to be an antagonist rather than an agonist for PPAR gamma. "In addition the ability of trans-10, cis-12 CLA to reduce the expression of PPAR{gamma}, we hypothesized that CLA directly affects PPAR{gamma} activity by competing with endogenous ligands, or diminishing endogenous ligand synthesis. ... both isomers antagonized ligand-dependent activation of the reporter construct, with trans-10, cis-12 CLA being the most robust antagonist (22). These data are in agreement with Granlund and colleagues (37), who recently reported that both CLA isomers antagonized the ligand-dependent transactivation of a PPAR{gamma}-responsive reporter, in both COS-1 and 3T3-L1 cells, with the trans-10, cis-12 isomer being the most robust antagonist." Source: Conjugated Linoleic Acid in Humans: Regulation of Adiposity and Insulin Sensitivity - http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/10/3041 It would appear as though the isomer, t10,c12-CLA would not be as available in milk products such as cheese. "It is well documented that t10,c12-CLA reduces milk fat. This effect has been most thoroughly studied in cows (52) but is also observed in lactating women who consume CLA supplements (53). The researchers of the latter study (53) concluded that the reduction of milk fat might lead to less energy availability for the nursing infant." Perspective on the safety and effectiveness of conjugated linoleic acid - http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/79/6/1132S Frank This post not CC'd by email On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:49:09 -0500, Jefferson <croom1935@netscape.net> wrote: >It would appear as though the isomer, t10,c12-CLA would not be as >available in milk products such as cheese. G'day G'day Frank, Alternatively it could be used to produce a lower fat cheese with unique health benefits. >"It is well documented that t10,c12-CLA reduces milk fat. This effect >has been most thoroughly studied in cows (52) but is also observed in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Frank Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > Alternatively it could be used to produce a lower fat cheese with > unique health benefits. There may be a limit to those low fat benefits: Increasing the Amount of Fat in a Conjugated Linoleic Acid–Supplemented Diet Reduces Lipodystrophy in Mice Nobuyo Tsuboyama-Kasaoka, Hiromi Miyazaki, Seiichi Kasaoka* and Osamu Ezaki2 Division of Clinical Nutrition, National Institute of Health and Nutrition, Shinjuku-ku, Tokyo 162-8636, Japan and * Department of Health and Nutrition, Bunkyo University Women’s College, Chigasaki, Kanagawa 253-8550, Japan Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is a naturally occurring group of dienoic derivatives of linoleic acid found in beef and dairy products. However, when 1 g CLA/100 g diet was given to mice in a low fat diet (4 g fat/100 g diet), they showed a marked decrease in fat mass, but demonstrated symptoms of lipoatrophic diabetes, i.e., marked hepatomegaly and insulin resistance. In this study, to determine whether the decrease in adipose tissue was responsible for these adverse effects, mice were fed different doses of CLA and dietary fat. In Experiment 1, mice were fed different doses of CLA (0, 0.1 and 1 g CLA/100 g diet) in a fixed 4 g fat/100 g diet; in those fed 0.1 g CLA, subcutaneous white adipose tissue (WAT) weight was 48% lower than in mice fed 0 g CLA. The mice fed 0.1 g CLA did not exhibit hepatomegaly and insulin resistance. In Experiment 2, mice were fed for 5 mo different amounts of dietary fat (4 , 13 and 34 g fat/100 g diet) in 0 or 1 g CLA/100 g diet; in mice fed 1 g CLA with 34 g fat, retroperitoneal and subcutaneous WAT weights were 76 and 79% lower, respectively, than those of mice fed 0 g CLA with 34 g fat. Mice fed 1 g CLA in the diet with 34 g fat had normal plasma insulin concentrations and a 45% greater liver weight. These data suggested that the percentage of CLA in dietary fat might be a determinant of CLA-mediated lipodystrophy. http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/6/1793 -- Seamus Hi Quentin: >>It would appear as though the isomer, t10,c12-CLA would not be as >>available in milk products such as cheese. > > Alternatively it could be used to produce a lower fat cheese with > unique health benefits. Are you suggesting that t10,c12-CLA would be added to cheese as it was being fermented/processed? There is an article that mentioned increasing milks t10,c12-CLA by adding canola seed to the dairy cattle's diet. From the lead article from Science News (http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20051029/food.asp) to this thread it seems that t10,c12 is the direction for reducing inflammation. "Cook's team is now focusing on a different CLA—trans-10, cis-12 (t10,c12). It's this fat that the researchers have found is most responsible for ratcheting down inappropriate inflammation. Although c9,t11 also showed some weak anti-inflammatory action in the team's test-tube studies, it failed to curb inflammation in animals." Most of the commercial CLA supplements are about 50/50 of the two isomers mentioned. The articles that I have read say that t10,c12-CLA is not available commercially and that it would be expensive. In the 50/50 combo some of the benefits of t10,c12-CLA are neutralized. > Quentin Gradywrote: This post not CC'd by email IMO there is just one thing you are missing... I'll PM you about that. |
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