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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / October 2005It don't matter
We have frequent visitors that have their favorite complaints. They hate so and so with a passion. I wish I could be like that. Nothing to worry about but trivia. Some of us have the problem of the week. Most of our misunderstood people do have problems and the internet gives them an outlet. I cannot hate them unless they are money grubbers I just want them to redirect their efforts to clinical diabetes where they can make some positive inputs. I sure could use that. Mack, George Bush must have some positive attributes. I will try to find some, to relate to you. Just be patient. Guy >George Bush must have some positive >attributes. I will try to find some, to relate to you. >Just be patient. > Guy You mean like thinking that 2,000 Americans having been killed in his war in Iraq is okay? That's pretty much what he said today. There was a news story last night about a girl that was involved in the death of a young man in Texas. The judge has sentenced her to have a picture of him on her dresser for ten year. Her probation officers is allowed to check on her at any time to be sure it is still there and facing forward where she has to see it every day. Wouldn't it be poetic justice if a judge like that would sentence George W. Bush to have pictures of every American who has died in this war prominently displayed on the walls of his bedroom for the rest of his life?  SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Oct 23, 2005 is 2,000. THE TOTAL AMERICAN DEATHS REACHED 2,000 TODAY. TELL OUR ELECTED SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES TO STOP THIS SLAUGHTER NOW! Each star represents one person killed. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,000 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 2,000 United Kingdom = 97 ************************************************** ********************************************* Other = 102 ************************************************** ************************************************** ** Iraqi civilian deaths are unknown because the Bush administraion doesn't want us to know the totals. >>George Bush must have some positive >>attributes. I will try to find some, to relate to you. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >have pictures of every American who has died in this war prominently >displayed on the walls of his bedroom for the rest of his life? George Bush is a figure head. He know where his support comes from. Most of us do not know that much. Guy I feel like I am in an ocean hanging on to a piece of wood. It may take a while for me tho find those positive traits. We look at history of world leaders, we do not want effective ones. . Chuck, You're becoming obsessive compulsive over this and it worries me. You're getting as bad about it as you accused me of being about my beliefs. Point out a war where NO lives were lost. Point out a war that was not politically/ economically motivated. Point out a leader that was never ridiculed by someone in their country. But one thing to remember; it is documented and has been reported by liberal sources (ABC and CNN, iirc) that war protesters only extend the war. The War for Iraqi Freedom was given support by both sides of congress and without that would not have happened. Therefore, Pres. Bush is only guilty of being the president in office at the time. Why are you making Pres. Bush your whipping boy / scapegoat? Budd > >George Bush must have some positive > >attributes. I will try to find some, to relate to you. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Grandpa Chuck > -ô¿ô- >Chuck, > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> Grandpa Chuck >> -ô¿ô- Budd, you're forgetting that the "War for Iraqui Freedon" started out as the war to eliminate Saddam's alleged WMDs and the thing was approved because a series of what has been proven to be lies on the part of the bush administration convinced folks there was a WMD threat. It only became the "War for Iraqi Freedom" when it became obvious there were no credible WMD threats. I'll still stick to the belief that it was/is really a war to gain control of a major oil producing area. >>Chuck, >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >that it was/is really a war to gain control of a major oil producing >area. I actually believed that WW2 was the war to end war. Then we would have eternal peace. A few years later I was drafted in a peace actin in Korea. There may be many reasons alleged for the current mess. We will know in maybe 50 years. So most of what I see here on both side is nothing but nonsense. We are programmed to engage in conflict with the peons getting slaughtered. This is the system. I hope someone does start a Nuclear acton. NO ONE will escape the consequences of that kind of action. Reason it may not happen.s We do live n a almost slave state with a cheering section. Some shove others out to be killed while they profit from power or wealth. It is trite to get your drawers in a knot over any of these things. War, with all kinds of rationalization s inherent in our genetics. We see temper fits here . It is our genetics and is not a trait to be admired. We just do the best we can in this world. That may require fighting for our position. As far as the present situation. The US has been known as Uncle sucker and the biggest supplier of cannon fodder in the world. I am prepared to go back to diabetes and get a few bits of collective knowledge. I surely need some. Guy >As far as the present situation. The US has been >known as Uncle sucker and the biggest supplier >of cannon fodder in the world. I almost used Ted's favourite term. Tell that to an Iraqi. Or an Afghanistani, a Serb, a Bosnian, a Somali, a Sudanese... too many to name. Your lot and mine aren't in all of the world's conflicts. Not taking sides, just check the true numbers. The number of asterisks needed for Chuck's sig would use too much bandwidth for the group if he included both sides from all of the conflicts. It is terrible and ghastly that there are now over 2200 coalition dead since the conflict started in Iraq (not 2000). Sometimes, on our side of the conflict, we forget that there are also over 30,000 Iraqi troops and 25,000 Iraqi civilians dead - and over 11,000 Afghani. I loathe the terrorists - not just for what they did to our people, but for what they have done to our world and way of life. But your nation needs to have a long, hard look at why the rest of the world seems to be so unenthusiastic about letting Uncle Sam act as guide, patron and world sheriff. The US needs to learn that our favourite acronym here - YMMV - also applies to other things in life. Particularly whether other nations want Superman's version of truth, justice and the American Way. That learning has to start at the grass-roots, in schools and at home, with the acceptance that there may actually be other cultures on the planet that are different but valid. Statements like the one quoted don't seem likely to achieve that. Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. SignatureEverything in Moderation - Except Laughter. >>As far as the present situation. The US has been >>known as Uncle sucker and the biggest supplier [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia. Some Americans get tired of sacrificing their sons to settle problems of other people. We have been conned for over a century. People should clean up their own messes. I am seeing many more Americans developing this attitude. They have enough problems in two hundred miles of their home to worry about the other self inflicted problems. Maybe we should worry about the CDC operations in old leaky shacks. Or the old fellow a couple of miles away that died because he could not afford medical care Some of us think too many American Politicians are very brain washed. This is a give and take world. America is "rich" because we work our a.s off. Try one of the mid west sweat shops for a couple of years. These fellows that stay there are totally burned out before age 50. Discarded like Kleenex. The real US is not the TV image. >>Chuck, >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >that it was/is really a war to gain control of a major oil producing >area. And to establish PERMANENT American military bases in the Middle East. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Oct 25, 2005 is 2,002. THE TOTAL AMERICAN DEATHS REACHED 2,000 YESTERDAY. TELL OUR ELECTED SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES TO STOP THIS SLAUGHTER NOW! Each star represents one person killed. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,000 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ** 2,002 United Kingdom = 97 ************************************************** ********************************************* Other = 102 ************************************************** ************************************************** ** Iraqi civilian deaths are unknown because the Bush administraion doesn't want us to know the totals. On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:07:24 GMT, Grandpa Chuck <Grandpa Chuck@B4ME.org> Huffed and Puffed the following into the madness of usenet: >>>Chuck, >>> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > >And to establish PERMANENT American military bases in the Middle East. actually that's to establish ANOTHER permanent base in the middle east. SignatureMâck©® Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o o) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus never hated anyone. > Budd, you're forgetting that the "War for Iraqui Freedon" started out > as the war to eliminate Saddam's alleged WMDs and the thing was > approved because a series of what has been proven to be lies on the > part of the bush administration convinced folks there was a WMD > threat. No, I am not forgetting it. The liberal press won't let it be forgotten. It's their favorite point of attack But before you point fingers at the "lies" of Pres. Bush, re-examine the lies of Clinton, Gore, JFK, Johnson, Congress, etc. > It only became the "War for Iraqi Freedom" when it became obvious > there were no credible WMD threats. I'll still stick to the belief > that it was/is really a war to gain control of a major oil producing > area. And you have the right to have your own opinion and you have the right to be WRONG, as do I. I was only asking Chuck to cool it with the body counts as I'm sure everyone in this group has access to the liberal news media and knows his opinions on the war by heart by now. -- Budd Cochran WARNING!!! Poster still believes that intelligence, logic, common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs are still important in our society, and might include them in his posts. >> Budd, you're forgetting that the "War for Iraqui Freedon" started out >> as the war to eliminate Saddam's alleged WMDs and the thing was [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >But before you point fingers at the "lies" of Pres. Bush, re-examine the >lies of Clinton, Gore, JFK, How many lives of American soldiers did they cause? > Johnson, > Congress, etc. Wasn't the last time Congress declared war right after Pearl Harbor was attacked? >> It only became the "War for Iraqi Freedom" when it became obvious >> there were no credible WMD threats. I'll still stick to the belief [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >And you have the right to have your own opinion and you have the right to be >WRONG, as do I. I was only asking Chuck to cool it with the body counts And you were very vague about what you were talking about. Now that I know what you meant the answer is a resounding NO WAY!!! THOSE ARE AMERICAN SOLDIERS DYING BECAUSE OF THE LIES THAT BUSH, CHENEY AND COMPANY TOLD. If you are uncomfortable reading my sigline with the number of American dead in Iraq then I have accomplished my purpose in putting it up there. > as >I'm sure everyone in this group has access to the liberal news media and >knows his opinions on the war by heart by now. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Oct 26, 2005 is 2,006. HAVE YOU NOTICED HOW THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND THEIR PUPPETS AT FOX-NEWS HAVE TRIVIALIZED THE FACT THAT WE PASSED THE 2,000 MARK? Each star represents one person killed. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,000 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ****** 2,006 United Kingdom = 97 ************************************************** ********************************************* Other = 102 ************************************************** ************************************************** ** Iraqi civilian deaths are unknown because the Bush administraion doesn't want us to know the totals. I was speaking on the honesty, in general, of the democratic party. -- Budd Cochran WARNING!!! Poster still believes that intelligence, logic, common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs are still important in our society, and might include them in his posts. > >> Budd, you're forgetting that the "War for Iraqui Freedon" started out > >> as the war to eliminate Saddam's alleged WMDs and the thing was [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Wasn't the last time Congress declared war right after Pearl Harbor > was attacked? Roosevelt declared war the day before the vote. > >> It only became the "War for Iraqi Freedom" when it became obvious > >> there were no credible WMD threats. I'll still stick to the belief [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > And you were very vague about what you were talking about. Like you never are? > Now that I know what you meant the answer is a resounding NO WAY!!! > THOSE ARE AMERICAN SOLDIERS DYING BECAUSE OF THE LIES THAT BUSH, > CHENEY AND COMPANY TOLD. I see. Then I will continue to clip them when I can. > If you are uncomfortable reading my sigline with the number of > American dead in Iraq then I have accomplished my purpose in putting > it up there. Chuick, I thought we were getting along a bit better, but I see you do not want to. > > as > >I'm sure everyone in this group has access to the liberal news media and > >knows his opinions on the war by heart by now. -- Budd Cochran WARNING!!! Poster still believes that intelligence, logic, common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs are still important in our society, and might include them in his posts. >I was speaking on the honesty, in general, of the democratic party. Sure you were. >-- >Budd Cochran [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >Roosevelt declared war the day before the vote. Better check your history again on that one. Roosevelt said, "A state of war exists between the United States and Japan." He did not have the power to declare war. No President ever has. >> >> It only became the "War for Iraqi Freedom" when it became obvious >> >> there were no credible WMD threats. I'll still stick to the belief [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Like you never are? I didn't say that. >> Now that I know what you meant the answer is a resounding NO WAY!!! >> THOSE ARE AMERICAN SOLDIERS DYING BECAUSE OF THE LIES THAT BUSH, >> CHENEY AND COMPANY TOLD. > >I see. Then I will continue to clip them when I can. Why? Because you don't think their sacrifice deserves to be noted? >> If you are uncomfortable reading my sigline with the number of >> American dead in Iraq then I have accomplished my purpose in putting >> it up there. > >Chuick, I thought we were getting along a bit better, but I see you do not >want to. Of course I do. That does not mean I am going to roll over and ask you to rub my belly like a servile dog. I happen to think the obscene loss of life in Iraq is something that must be brought to everyone's attention at every opportunity. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Oct 26, 2005 is 2,006. HAVE YOU NOTICED HOW THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND THEIR PUPPETS AT FOX-NEWS HAVE TRIVIALIZED THE FACT THAT WE PASSED THE 2,000 MARK? Each star represents one person killed. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,000 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ****** 2,006 United Kingdom = 97 ************************************************** ********************************************* Other = 102 ************************************************** ************************************************** ** Iraqi civilian deaths are unknown because the Bush administraion doesn't want us to know the totals. > >I was speaking on the honesty, in general, of the democratic party. > > Sure you were. Well, why not just call me a liar to my face, if you can? I was speaking of the democrat / liberal / socialist party. > >-- > >Budd Cochran [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Japan." > He did not have the power to declare war. No President ever has. <LOL> How old were you then? My step-dad was 51 that year and heard it right on the radio. When I was in grade school, I used to chat with him about the wars (he served in WWI) and he said that Roosevelt, by those words, declared war and Congress just agreed with him on Monday. > >> >> It only became the "War for Iraqi Freedom" when it became obvious > >> >> there were no credible WMD threats. I'll still stick to the belief [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I didn't say that. Then, please, remember that you are often misunderstood because of your lack of precise replies. > >> Now that I know what you meant the answer is a resounding NO WAY!!! > >> THOSE ARE AMERICAN SOLDIERS DYING BECAUSE OF THE LIES THAT BUSH, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Why? > Because you don't think their sacrifice deserves to be noted? It has been noted, Chuck. One reporting of it was a report, but repetitions like this make it propaganda. > >> If you are uncomfortable reading my sigline with the number of > >> American dead in Iraq then I have accomplished my purpose in putting [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Of course I do. That does not mean I am going to roll over and ask you > to rub my belly like a servile dog. Ah, I see. . . . but I'm to roll my Fundamental Christian belly over for assaults. > I happen to think the obscene loss of life in Iraq is something that > must be brought to everyone's attention at every opportunity. And I think war protest and the spreading of propaganda are un American. -- Budd Cochran WARNING!!! Poster still believes that intelligence, logic, common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs are still important in our society, and might include them in his posts. >> >I was speaking on the honesty, in general, of the democratic party. >> >> Sure you were. > >Well, why not just call me a liar to my face, if you can? If telling one falsehood makes a person a liar, so be it. To me a liar is someone who will probably lie even when the truth would help them - or is that a pathological liar? >I was speaking of the democrat / liberal / socialist party. >> [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >wars (he served in WWI) and he said that Roosevelt, by those words, declared >war and Congress just agreed with him on Monday. Roosevelt said "A state of war exists..." which was not a formal declaration of war. The President cannot by law declare war. Heaven knows the films of what happened including Roosevelt's statements have been played thousands upon thousands of times. I was a very young child at the time, but we certainly saw those films in history/social study classes in school and ever since television became a household item. >> >> >> It only became the "War for Iraqi Freedom" when it became obvious >> >> >> there were no credible WMD threats. I'll still stick to the belief [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Then, please, remember that you are often misunderstood because of your lack >of precise replies. I believe my replies to be quite clear. Apparently you do not. That may either say something about my ability to express myself or it may say something about your reading comprehension. It really makes no difference. As usual, you are simply nitpicking. >> >> Now that I know what you meant the answer is a resounding NO WAY!!! >> >> THOSE ARE AMERICAN SOLDIERS DYING BECAUSE OF THE LIES THAT BUSH, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >It has been noted, Chuck. One reporting of it was a report, but repetitions >like this make it propaganda. Absolutely not. Do you fine Loretta's sigline to be propaganda. Also, if you've been paying attention I use my other sigline when replying to most people in ASD. >> >> If you are uncomfortable reading my sigline with the number of >> >> American dead in Iraq then I have accomplished my purpose in putting [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Ah, I see. . . . but I'm to roll my Fundamental Christian belly over for >assaults. I did not say that at all. For you to indicate that I did is just one more lie on your part. How many must you put forth before admitting to being a liar? >> I happen to think the obscene loss of life in Iraq is something that >> must be brought to everyone's attention at every opportunity. > >And I think war protest and the spreading of propaganda are un American. So following the head of the government blindly is more American than expressing a different view? I guess you have forgotten the principles this country was founded on. To do what you advocate is exactly what happened in Germany and Italy in the 1930's and 40's. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Oct 27, 2005 is 2,009. Each star represents one person killed. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,000 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ********* 2,009 United Kingdom = 97 ************************************************** ********************************************* Other = 102 ************************************************** ************************************************** ** Iraqi civilian deaths are unknown because the Bush administraion doesn't want us to know the totals. > >> >I was speaking on the honesty, in general, of the democratic party. > >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > If telling one falsehood makes a person a liar, so be it. Telling one lie makes a person a liar. I wasn't lying, I was commenting by expressing my opinion. > To me a liar is someone who will probably lie even when the truth > would help them - or is that a pathological liar? Yep. > >I was speaking of the democrat / liberal / socialist party. > >> [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > Roosevelt said "A state of war exists..." which was not a formal > declaration of war. The President cannot by law declare war. He declared, publicly a prior existing condition, peace, had become a state (condition) of war. A declaration of war. > Heaven knows the films of what happened including Roosevelt's > statements have been played thousands upon thousands of times. > I was a very young child at the time, but we certainly saw those films > in history/social study classes in school and ever since television > became a household item. Yep. I've seen them a bunch of times also, and even in History classes in school where the teachers, old enough to have been alive and cognizant of what he said taught it was a declaration of war. > >> >> >> It only became the "War for Iraqi Freedom" when it became obvious > >> >> >> there were no credible WMD threats. I'll still stick to the belief [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > say something about your reading comprehension. It really makes no > difference. It does if you deliberately corrupt or misquote to foment disagreements. > As usual, you are simply nitpicking. Not at all, just asking that we continue to have solid, straight forward, no-spin discussions, that's all. > >> >> Now that I know what you meant the answer is a resounding NO WAY!!! > >> >> THOSE ARE AMERICAN SOLDIERS DYING BECAUSE OF THE LIES THAT BUSH, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Also, if you've been paying attention I use my other sigline when > replying to most people in ASD. Ah, then it's strictly designed to be deliberately offensive to me? > >> >> If you are uncomfortable reading my sigline with the number of > >> >> American dead in Iraq then I have accomplished my purpose in putting [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > more lie on your part. How many must you put forth before admitting to > being a liar? Hey, Chuck, YOU are the one that keeps saying I'm supposed to be quiet, peaceable, politically correct, not mention my beliefs, not quote from the book I hold Holy. I just say that's not who I am. > >> I happen to think the obscene loss of life in Iraq is something that > >> must be brought to everyone's attention at every opportunity. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > expressing a different view? I guess you have forgotten the principles > this country was founded on. Nope, I haven't, but the liberals have. > To do what you advocate is exactly what happened in Germany and Italy > in the 1930's and 40's. No, it isn't, but what you advocate is what got overthrown in Germany and Russia. -- Budd Cochran WARNING!!! Poster still believes that intelligence, logic, common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs are still important in our society, and might include them in his posts. > Telling one lie makes a person a liar. this must be something about cnn it was probably something to do with cnn >I wasn't lying, I was commenting by > expressing my opinion. either that or the millions of ebay screens I musta looked at mk5000 "you need to be able to go back and do it old school. we had already decided we would have runners going from fire stati to fire station if the communicatins system went down"--pat sullivan >"Grandpa Chuck" <Grandpa Chuck@B4ME.org> wrote in message <snip> >> Roosevelt said "A state of war exists..." which was not a formal >> declaration of war. The President cannot by law declare war. You clearly need to go back to high school and take the American Government Class again. The President can say just about anything he/she wants to, but it takes the Congress to declare war. >He declared, publicly a prior existing condition, peace, had become a state >(condition) of war. A declaration of war. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >school where the teachers, old enough to have been alive and cognizant of >what he said taught it was a declaration of war. Not legally speaking. <snip> >> Absolutely not. Do you fine Loretta's sigline to be propaganda. >> Also, if you've been paying attention I use my other sigline when >> replying to most people in ASD. > >Ah, then it's strictly designed to be deliberately offensive to me? OH MY GOD YOU HAVE A HUGE EGO!!!!!!!!! My sigline listing the number of American soldiers who have given the ultimate sacrifice was not designed to offend you at all. If it were it would not be the one I use on every email I send out. I also always make sure it is on the ones I send to my Congressmen even though now we have to go through their web sites to send them. >Hey, Chuck, YOU are the one that keeps saying I'm supposed to be quiet, >peaceable, politically correct, not mention my beliefs, not quote from the >book I hold Holy. Another lie from you. I have not said that at all. I have asked you to not proselytize to me. >> To do what you advocate is exactly what happened in Germany and Italy >> in the 1930's and 40's. > >No, it isn't, but what you advocate is what got overthrown in Germany and >Russia. What exactly are you talking about? Fascism is controlled by big business. For instance what Bush has been doing. fas-cism (fashizm)n. 1. Often Fascism A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government. --------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from American Heritage Talking Dictionary Communism was based on Karl Marx's writings, but they didn't run it that way and I certainly do not advocate anything like that at all. What I advocate is universal health care from cradle to grave. If, as you say, you are against all forms of socialism I am sure you will return any money you get from the Social Security system since that is a socialist program. If you do not then we know you are a full blown liar and hypocrite. -- Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle, and twice the brightness can then be shared by all. Love is giving all with no conditions. Love is expecting nothing in return. A religious person is trying to avoid hell; a spiritual person has already been there. > >"Grandpa Chuck" <Grandpa Chuck@B4ME.org> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Government Class again. The President can say just about anything > he/she wants to, but it takes the Congress to declare war. Today it does. Back then there were now laws or regulations preventing it. > >He declared, publicly a prior existing condition, peace, had become a state > >(condition) of war. A declaration of war. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Not legally speaking. If there is no law denying it, how can it be illegal? > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > OH MY GOD YOU HAVE A HUGE EGO!!!!!!!!! No, just trying to decipher your spins Chuck. If it's known to be offensive to me and you deliberately put it on replies made to my posts, then, by intention, you add it to offend me. Simple logic. Now, if you don't intend to offend me with it, then why do you add it? > My sigline listing the number of American soldiers who have given the > ultimate sacrifice was not designed to offend you at all. But you know I dislike propaganda, which it has become. > If it were > it would not be the one I use on every email I send out. Hold it, Chuck, How would sending to others you email offend me? > I also always > make sure it is on the ones I send to my Congressmen even though now > we have to go through their web sites to send them. That is your choice, but, don't be surprised if you find yourself blocked. > >Hey, Chuck, YOU are the one that keeps saying I'm supposed to be quiet, > >peaceable, politically correct, not mention my beliefs, not quote from the > >book I hold Holy. > > Another lie from you. Nope, you do it by making comparisons between me and other Christians you know and describing how they act so different from me. > I have not said that at all. I have asked you to not proselytize to > me. And I haven't. > >> To do what you advocate is exactly what happened in Germany and Italy > >> in the 1930's and 40's. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What exactly are you talking about? Socialism. > Fascism is controlled by big business. > For instance what Bush has been doing. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Communism was based on Karl Marx's writings, but they didn't run it > that way and I certainly do not advocate anything like that at all. One of the primary goals of the Liberals is to make the country socialistic. > What I advocate is universal health care from cradle to grave. If, as > you say, you are against all forms of socialism I am sure you will > return any money you get from the Social Security system since that is > a socialist program. If you do not then we know you are a full blown > liar and hypocrite. No, the money in my Social Security Account is money _I_ earned, it's mine. They demanded I send it to them instead of using it for health insurance, retirement investments, etc. They mismanaged the money until there is darn little left. Budd >"Grandpa Chuck" <Grandpa Chuck@B4ME.org> wrote in message >> >> Absolutely not. Do you fine Loretta's sigline to be propaganda. >> >> Also, if you've been paying attention I use my other sigline when [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >intention, you add it to offend me. Simple logic. Now, if you don't intend >to offend me with it, then why do you add it? It is not my fault if you happen to believe that Americans giving their lives in the war and you being reminded of the sacrifice is offensive. If fact, I find it extremely offensive that you don't want to be reminded, especially when you have said how very much you support Bush's decision to send those American soldiers over there to die. Why haven't his daughters volunteered for military service if he thinks it is such a noble cause? >> My sigline listing the number of American soldiers who have given the >> ultimate sacrifice was not designed to offend you at all. > >But you know I dislike propaganda, which it has become. Call it whatever you like. I don't think it fits the definition of propaganda at all. prop-a-gan-da (prop-gand)n. 1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those people advocating such a doctrine or cause. 2. Material disseminated by the advocates of a doctrine or cause: the selected truths, exaggerations, and lies of wartime propaganda. --------------------------------------------------------- Excerpted from American Heritage Talking Dictionary Copyright © 1997 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. >> If it were >> it would not be the one I use on every email I send out. > >Hold it, Chuck, How would sending to others you email offend me? YOU CLEARLY STATED THAT I ONLY PUT IT AFTER MY POSTS IN ORDER TO OFFEND YOU. That is a total lie. >> I also always >> make sure it is on the ones I send to my Congressmen even though now >> we have to go through their web sites to send them. > >That is your choice, but, don't be surprised if you find yourself blocked. Blocked by whom? Both of my senators and my representative ALWAYS answer my emails and telephone calls. >> >Hey, Chuck, YOU are the one that keeps saying I'm supposed to be quiet, >> >peaceable, politically correct, not mention my beliefs, not quote from [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Nope, you do it by making comparisons between me and other Christians you >know and describing how they act so different from me. If me friends and relatives who are Christians were to see the things you write they would find your behavior in here to abhorrent. >> I have not said that at all. I have asked you to not proselytize to >> me. > >And I haven't. LIAR. >> >> To do what you advocate is exactly what happened in Germany and Italy >> >> in the 1930's and 40's. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >No, the money in my Social Security Account is money _I_ earned, it's mine. So, according to your line of thinking, every dollar you have paid in taxes is YOUR money and you are entitled to it, and yet you do not call that socialism. It seems that you interpret programs like Social Security and Medicare with the same slanted view that you use when you interpret the Bible. HYPOCRITE SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Oct 27, 2005 is 2,016. YESTERDAY'S TOTAL WAS 2.009. TODAY'S TOTAL IS 2,016. HOW CAN ANYONE FIND THAT TO BE ACCEPTABLE???? Each star represents one person killed. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,000 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** **************** 2,016 United Kingdom = 97 ************************************************** ********************************************* Other = 102 ************************************************** ************************************************** ** Iraqi civilian deaths are unknown because the Bush administraion doesn't want us to know the totals. > >"Grandpa Chuck" <Grandpa Chuck@B4ME.org> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > their lives in the war and you being reminded of the sacrifice is > offensive. In reality Chuck, the only offensive part is that you feel some vicious need to slap it in my face so much. > If fact, I find it extremely offensive that you don't want > to be reminded, especially when you have said how very much you > support Bush's decision to send those American soldiers over there to > die. Then we both offend the other, right, in at least a half dozen ways. > Why haven't his daughters volunteered for military service if he > thinks it is such a noble cause? Because they have a choice to not do so if they choose. > >> My sigline listing the number of American soldiers who have given the > >> ultimate sacrifice was not designed to offend you at all. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Excerpted from American Heritage Talking Dictionary > Copyright © 1997 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Then you didn't read the whole definition, did you? You skipped this part; " prop-a-gan-da (prop-gand)n. 1. The systematic propagation > of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and > interests of those people advocating such a doctrine or cause. 2. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Excerpted from American Heritage Talking Dictionary > Copyright © 1997 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved." > >> If it were > >> it would not be the one I use on every email I send out. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > YOU CLEARLY STATED THAT I ONLY PUT IT AFTER MY POSTS IN ORDER TO > OFFEND YOU. That is a total lie. When you put it, by itself, in a post as a reply, then it is an obvious intent to offend. > >> I also always > >> make sure it is on the ones I send to my Congressmen even though now [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Both of my senators and my representative ALWAYS answer my emails and > telephone calls. For now . . .btw, are any of them up for re-election? Maybe that's why they answer you. > >> >Hey, Chuck, YOU are the one that keeps saying I'm supposed to be quiet, > >> >peaceable, politically correct, not mention my beliefs, not quote from [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If me friends and relatives who are Christians were to see the things > you write they would find your behavior in here to abhorrent. That's them, not me. If they want to walk on glass around you then that's there choice. > >> I have not said that at all. I have asked you to not proselytize to > >> me. > > > >And I haven't. > > LIAR. Now you're starting up the arguments again. > >> >> To do what you advocate is exactly what happened in Germany and Italy > >> >> in the 1930's and 40's. [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > HYPOCRITE Whatever. Your just wanting to argue again . . . -- Budd Cochran WARNING!!! Poster still believes that intelligence, logic, common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs are still important in our society, and might include them in his posts. >"Grandpa Chuck" <Grandpa Chuck@B4ME.org> wrote in message <snip> >> It is not my fault if you happen to believe that Americans giving >> their lives in the war and you being reminded of the sacrifice is >> offensive. > >In reality Chuck, the only offensive part is that you feel some vicious need >to slap it in my face so much. You must do something about that overblown ego of yours. In reality it is put up for ALL to see - not just you. Why not take a long hard look at each and every one of those stars while thinking about the fact that each one represents a young life snuffed out for all time because of Bush's lies. <snip> >> >> I also always >> >> make sure it is on the ones I send to my Congressmen even though now [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >For now . . .btw, are any of them up for re-election? Maybe that's why they >answer you. This is 2005. None of them are up for re-election and they have always answered me. Now read my sigline and take a long hard look at each and every one of those stars while thinking about the fact that each one represents a young life snuffed out for all time because of Bush's lies. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Oct 29, 2005 is 2,016. Each star represents one person killed. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,000 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** **************** 2,016 United Kingdom = 97 ************************************************** ********************************************* Other = 102 ************************************************** ************************************************** ** Iraqi civilian deaths are unknown because the Bush administration doesn't want us to know the totals. Where did this thread start? It does not resemble the original thread. but it has gone on and on and on. It might be better to start a new thread so people can skip them. Never mind,, just look at the author and decide. Ever hear of e-mail for person things of no general interest. >>"Grandpa Chuck" <Grandpa Chuck@B4ME.org> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >of those stars while thinking about the fact that each one represents >a young life snuffed out for all time because of Bush's lies. >Where did this thread start? It does not resemble the >original thread. but it has gone on and on and on. > >It might be better to start a new thread so people >can skip them. Sorry I keep forgetting to add the OT at the beginning of the subject line. <Never mind,, just look at the >author and decide. Ever hear of e-mail for person >things of no general interest. I guess you haven't really been following this for very long at all. If you had then you would know that I tried to take it to email. My antagonist in this thread has me blocked. Besides, he wouldn't get the attention that his ego so sorely needs. I just finished watching a program I recorded Friday night. It was "In God They Trust" about the evangelical movement in this country and their involvement with the government. There was little or nothing in it that was not from their point of view. It was very informative indeed. I wonder if people who call themselves Fundamentalist Christians or Evangelical Christians watched it. It thoroughly convinced me that my fear of their agenda is very well founded. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Oct 29, 2005 is 2,016. Each star represents one person killed. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,000 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** **************** 2,016 United Kingdom = 97 ************************************************** ********************************************* Other = 102 ************************************************** ************************************************** ** Iraqi civilian deaths are unknown because the Bush administration doesn't want us to know the totals. >"Grandpa Chuck" <Grandpa Chuck@B4ME.org> wrote in message <snip> >> If me friends and relatives who are Christians were to see the things >> you write they would find your behavior in here to abhorrent. > >That's them, not me. If they want to walk on glass around you then that's >there choice. No. They are completely open and honest with me as I am with them. They are not offended by me not being a Christian and I am not offended by them. Nor do they rub anyone's nose in their Christian faith. In fact they live more by the principles, A religious person is trying to avoid hell; a spiritual person has already been there. and A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle, and twice the brightness can then be shared by all. Love is giving all with no conditions. Love is expecting nothing in return. Try it. You might like it. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Oct 29, 2005 is 2,016. Each star represents one person killed. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,000 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** **************** 2,016 United Kingdom = 97 ************************************************** ********************************************* Other = 102 ************************************************** ************************************************** ** Iraqi civilian deaths are unknown because the Bush administration doesn't want us to know the totals. On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:19:15 GMT, "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@SPAM.citlink.net> Huffed and Puffed the following into the madness of usenet: >> Budd, you're forgetting that the "War for Iraqui Freedon" started out >> as the war to eliminate Saddam's alleged WMDs and the thing was [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >But before you point fingers at the "lies" of Pres. Bush, re-examine the >lies of Clinton, Gore, JFK, Johnson, why? they are no longer sitting in office and thus no longer a threat to anyone. > Congress, etc. You mean the same Congress who back Bush? Interesting. >> It only became the "War for Iraqi Freedom" when it became obvious >> there were no credible WMD threats. I'll still stick to the belief [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I'm sure everyone in this group has access to the liberal news media and >knows his opinions on the war by heart by now. are you saying the conservative point of view is that the body count is unimportant? How many have to actually die before it becomes important? You can use the rhetoric "liberal press" all you want to deflect attention but what you don't ever seem to grasp is that it doesn't work. SignatureMâck©® Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o o) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus never hated anyone. On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:54:59 GMT, "Budd Cochran" <mr-d150@SPAM.citlink.net> Huffed and Puffed the following into the madness of usenet: >Chuck, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >But one thing to remember; it is documented and has been reported by liberal >sources (ABC and CNN, iirc) that war protesters only extend the war. propaganda from the sheep. >The War for Iraqi Freedom was given support by both sides of congress and >without that would not have happened. Therefore, Pres. Bush is only guilty >of being the president in office at the time. Why are you making Pres. Bush >your whipping boy / scapegoat? > >Budd and now members of both sides of congress are saying that they regret the mistake. SignatureMâck©® Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.diabetic-talk.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ...Theodore Roosevelt (o o) --ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------------- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus never hated anyone. >On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:54:59 GMT, "Budd Cochran" >>The War for Iraqi Freedom was given support by both sides of congress and >>without that would not have happened. Therefore, Pres. Bush is only guilty [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >and now members of both sides of congress are saying that they regret >the mistake. And at least most of them will admit they made a mistake which is a hell of lot more than Bush will ever do. It takes a real man or woman to admit to having made a mistake. You know, like John F. Kerry when he said he voted for it the first time, but after due consideration voted against it the second time. We was not afraid to say he'd made a mistake. For that act of maturity the Republicans accused him of flip-flopping. SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Oct 25, 2005 is 2,002. THE TOTAL AMERICAN DEATHS REACHED 2,000 YESTERDAY. TELL OUR ELECTED SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES TO STOP THIS SLAUGHTER NOW! Each star represents one person killed. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,000 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ** 2,002 United Kingdom = 97 ************************************************** ********************************************* Other = 102 ************************************************** ************************************************** ** Iraqi civilian deaths are unknown because the Bush administraion doesn't want us to know the totals. >Chuck, > >You're becoming obsessive compulsive over this and it worries me. You're >getting as bad about it as you accused me of being about my beliefs. No, I'm not obsessive about Bush and his traitorous ways. Many of my friends feel the same way. One lady friend of ours has the number of casualties you see in my sigline posted in foot tall block letters in the front windows of her house. After seeing my sigline she and several of her friends have started using the same one and keeping it up to date too. >Point out a war where NO lives were lost. A war that was never fought as this one should not have been. We, the United States of America, are the aggressor nation in this war. > Point out a war that was not >politically/ economically motivated. Point out a leader that was never >ridiculed by someone in their country. > >But one thing to remember; it is documented and has been reported by liberal >sources (ABC and CNN, iirc) that war protesters only extend the war. Oh really? So you don't honestly think that the protestors during the Vietnam war helped to change the atmosphere in the country to one that demanded we withdraw? >The War for Iraqi Freedom was given support by both sides of congress and >without that would not have happened. Yes, but the chicken sh.ts didn't have enough balls to declare war. Actually, they only gave Bush the authority to use military action after he lied by promising he would only use it if there were no other choice. >Therefore, Pres. Bush is only guilty >of being the president in office at the time. He is guilty of lying to the American people including those members of both houses that gave him the authority to use military force. > Why are you making Pres. Bush >your whipping boy / scapegoat? He isn't "my" whipping boy or scapegoat. He is a traitor. He used the same lame excuses to invade Iraq that Benito Mussolini used to invade Ethiopia and that Hitler used to invade Austria, Poland, etc. >Budd > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> Grandpa Chuck >> -ô¿ô- SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Oct 25, 2005 is 2,002. THE TOTAL AMERICAN DEATHS REACHED 2,000 YESTERDAY. TELL OUR ELECTED SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES TO STOP THIS SLAUGHTER NOW! Each star represents one person killed. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,000 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ** 2,002 United Kingdom = 97 ************************************************** ********************************************* Other = 102 ************************************************** ************************************************** ** Iraqi civilian deaths are unknown because the Bush administraion doesn't want us to know the totals. > >Chuck, > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > several of her friends have started using the same one and keeping it > up to date too. Well, I was just trying to point out that you are as obsessive about that as you said I am about my beliefs. Do you see the comparison at all? > >Point out a war where NO lives were lost. > > A war that was never fought as this one should not have been. We, the > United States of America, are the aggressor nation in this war. That's not what I asked, Chuck. The point is that what you and friends are doing is destroying the troops confidence they need to SURVIVE the conflict. > > Point out a war that was not > >politically/ economically motivated. Point out a leader that was never [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Vietnam war helped to change the atmosphere in the country to one that > demanded we withdraw? Nope, they destroyed the confidence the soldiers needed in that the mainstream of the country supported them as soldiers of the USA. Without that confidence, they lost faith in themselves and often made stupid, undisciplined mistakes. That caused needless deaths and maiming. It caused missions to go wrong. and it caused the war to drag on because battles that should have been won were lost because of the casualties. Now, consider the poor treatment Vietnam vets received when they did rotate home for just doing what they had to do. When those still in "Nam heard about it is just added to the discouragement ( in the original meaning of the word: the removal of courage) > >The War for Iraqi Freedom was given support by both sides of congress and > >without that would not have happened. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > after he lied by promising he would only use it if there were no other > choice. I believe they did things as they saw they were needed to be done. But, can't they make mistakes? > >Therefore, Pres. Bush is only guilty > >of being the president in office at the time. > > He is guilty of lying to the American people including those members > of both houses that gave him the authority to use military force. Like Clinton, Gore, JFK, Johnson never lied to the US? ROTFLMBO!!!! > > Why are you making Pres. Bush > >your whipping boy / scapegoat? > > He isn't "my" whipping boy or scapegoat. He is a traitor. In your opinion, not by law. > He used the > same lame excuses to invade Iraq that Benito Mussolini used to invade > Ethiopia and that Hitler used to invade Austria, Poland, etc. Come on, Chuck. Link me some proof, because I don't see it that way. -- Budd Cochran WARNING!!! Poster still believes that intelligence, logic, common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs are still important in our society, and might include them in his posts. >> >Chuck, >> > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Well, I was just trying to point out that you are as obsessive about that as >you said I am about my beliefs. Do you see the comparison at all? Absolutely not. My signature line is about American soldiers giving their lives today for an unjust war brought about by Bush's lies. >> >Point out a war where NO lives were lost. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >That's not what I asked, Chuck. The point is that what you and friends are >doing is destroying the troops confidence they need to SURVIVE the conflict. That is utter BULLSHIT and you know it. >> > Point out a war that was not >> >politically/ economically motivated. Point out a leader that was never [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >missions to go wrong. and it caused the war to drag on because battles that >should have been won were lost because of the casualties. Man, do you ever have a warped view of history. If you want to know how the soldiers in Vietnam felt take the time to watch the movie "Apocalypse Now" again. Talk to some Vietnam veterans that knew we were losing the war before all the protests. >Now, consider the poor treatment Vietnam vets received when they did rotate >home for just doing what they had to do. A lot of that was shameful. I always treated returning veterans with respect, as I do now, even though I opposed that war too. > When those still in "Nam heard >about it is just added to the discouragement ( in the original meaning of >the word: the removal of courage) I don't believe that. >> >The War for Iraqi Freedom was given support by both sides of congress and >> >without that would not have happened. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >I believe they did things as they saw they were needed to be done. But, >can't they make mistakes? Who? Congress or Bush? Congress made a mistake and for the most part have admitted it. Bush, on the other hand, lied to get us in there and now says the best way to honor the 2,000 plus dead is to continue to have more American soldiers lose their lives in a lost cause. >> >Therefore, Pres. Bush is only guilty >> >of being the president in office at the time. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Like Clinton, Gore, JFK, Johnson never lied to the US? ROTFLMBO!!!! Clinton and Gores lies were trivial compared to Bush's and did not cost over 2,000 American soldiers and uncounted civilians their lives. >> > Why are you making Pres. Bush >> >your whipping boy / scapegoat? >> >> He isn't "my" whipping boy or scapegoat. He is a traitor. > >In your opinion, not by law. So if it is proven that he knowingly lied to the Congress and the American people that is not treason? >> He used the >> same lame excuses to invade Iraq that Benito Mussolini used to invade >> Ethiopia and that Hitler used to invade Austria, Poland, etc. > >Come on, Chuck. Link me some proof, because I don't see it that way. Proof? Don't you remember your history lessons about WWII and the excuses Mussolini and Hitler used for invading other countries? SignatureGrandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ The following information is given with the utmost respect for the armed forces and civilians who have died in the current war in Iraq. According to http://icasualties.org/oif/ The number of Americans killed in Iraq as of Oct 26, 2005 is 2,006. HAVE YOU NOTICED HOW THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND THEIR PUPPETS AT FOX-NEWS HAVE TRIVIALIZED THE FACT THAT WE PASSED THE 2,000 MARK? Each star represents one person killed. ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,000 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** 1,500 ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ****** 2,006 United Kingdom = 97 ************************************************** ********************************************* Other = 102 ************************************************** ************************************************** ** Iraqi civilian deaths are unknown because the Bush administraion doesn't want us to know the totals. > >> >Chuck, > >> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Absolutely not. Well, you are. > My signature line is about American soldiers giving their lives today > for an unjust war brought about by Bush's lies. No, it's liberal propaganda as information you claim is unavailable is available > >> >Point out a war where NO lives were lost. > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > That is utter BULLSHIT and you know it. No, it is not. > >> > Point out a war that was not > >> >politically/ economically motivated. Point out a leader that was never [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > "Apocalypse Now" again. Talk to some Vietnam veterans that knew we > were losing the war before all the protests. Chuck, I have seen the movie, and it's a hollywood-ized account, that is full of liberal half truths and outright lies. I have family members that served and died over in 'Nam. I've talked to many Vets that clued me in on what the protests were doing to the soldier's moral. > >Now, consider the poor treatment Vietnam vets received when they did rotate > >home for just doing what they had to do. > > A lot of that was shameful. I always treated returning veterans with > respect, as I do now, even though I opposed that war too. And you're one against how many that spat on them, called them "baby killers, and so on? Just because you didn't doesn't mean it did not happen. > > When those still in "Nam heard > >about it is just added to the discouragement ( in the original meaning of > >the word: the removal of courage) > > I don't believe that. Ok, don't. That doesn't stop it from being true. |
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