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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / October 2005

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"Dr. Lam" website...Good info, or bad?

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noneyabusiness - 21 Oct 2005 05:31 GMT
Ran across this site.
He seems to have an opinion on a wide variety of topics.
I am reserving comment on his endorsement of "magnetized water".
(Give me a break!)

I am wondering though if his statements on insulin resistance and
Diabetes hold any..um..water ;-)

TIA

http://www.lammd.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/insulin_and_aging.cfm

http://www.lammd.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/Diabetes.cfm

(and other pages..see my comment, above <g> .)

...
Quentin Grady - 21 Oct 2005 10:05 GMT
This post not CC'd by email

>Ran across this site.
>He seems to have an opinion on a wide variety of topics.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>(and other pages..see my comment, above <g> .)

G'day G'day,  

I took quick look at the URLs you have given.  

The good news is he distinguishes between T1 and T2 diabetes.
That makes a pleasant change.

Bad points are

(1) the suggestion that NIDDM (T2) is easy to cure.  
His suggestions are a reasonable attempt at T2 control.

(2) the endorsement of vanadyl.  My interpretation of the literature
is that vanadyl has a narrow safety margin if taken long term.

There are points for which I am wondering whether his assertions can
be substantiated or not.  One such example is that high levels of the
amino acids lysine and proline in conjunction with high doses of Vit C
can dissolve plaque.  Frankly it sounds too good to be true.  It seems
like one would have to invoke conspiracy theories to explain why it
wasn't standard practice if such a methodology had scientific support.
Glycine is readily available in jelly made from gelatine.  If proline
is as readily available all it would take to rid the world of
arteriosclerosis is jelly with Vit C and proline added.  It would be a
hit in restaurants.  Eat the steak and eggs ... cancel the guilt and
anxiety with the house special jelly dessert.

There are other points which could be worth discussion if folks are
interested.  I didn't come across the magnetised water.

Best wishes,

Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Jenny - 21 Oct 2005 15:25 GMT
> This post not CC'd by email
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>  
> Best wishes,

Quentin,

Richard K. Bernstein says that high doses of Vitamin C can raise blood
sugar, interfere with nerve function, and mess with the accuracy of some
test strips. He recommends not going over 500 mg a day.

He also says that while vanadyl may lower blood sugar, it does so by
inhibiting an enzyme, tyrosine phosphatase which is essential to many
other important biochemical processes in the body. He says none of the
studies looking at Vanadyl Sulfate lasted longer than thee weeks so
there is no information on long term effects.

--Jenny

http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/  Type 2 Diabetes info
http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/  Low Carb info
Quentin Grady - 21 Oct 2005 19:11 GMT
This post not CC'd by email
On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:25:50 -0400, Jenny
<lottadatacarbs@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Quentin,
>
>Richard K. Bernstein says that high doses of Vitamin C can raise blood
>sugar, interfere with nerve function, and mess with the accuracy of some
>test strips. He recommends not going over 500 mg a day.

G'day G'day Jenny,

Darn.  I meant to mention that high dose Vit C is problematic but was
side tracked by other happenings.  Dr Bernstein is far from being the
only person putting an upper advisable limit of around 500 to 700 mg
per day for supplementation.  If I have interpreted the literature
correctly there doesn't appear to be a problem with diets that have
higher Vit C.  Many people advocating Paleolithic style diets,
vegetables and meat, suggest that historically people had more Vit C.
That's not megadose's as advocated by some supplement happy folks.

"The Inflammation Syndrome" by Jack Challem, published John Wiley and
Sons.  

Paleolithic Vit C = 600 mg/day  
based on 3000 cal/day, 35% animal and 65% plant substances.

US  Vit C =  93 mg/day  based on Food and Nutrition Board study, 1989.

>He also says that while vanadyl may lower blood sugar, it does so by
>inhibiting an enzyme, tyrosine phosphatase which is essential to many
>other important biochemical processes in the body. He says none of the
>studies looking at Vanadyl Sulfate lasted longer than thee weeks so
>there is no information on long term effects.

Thanks.

>--Jenny

Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

ted rosenerg - 21 Oct 2005 13:56 GMT
> Ran across this site.
> He seems to have an opinion on a wide variety of topics.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> ...
SCAM SITE !!

1) There is no such specialty as "anti-aging"
2) There is no Michael Lan listed with the ABMS as certified in
ANYTHING.  If he ever passed boards in ANY medical specialty, he would
be in their database.
3) I can't find any medical licenses for a Michael Lan, though because I
have to search each state seperatly it is POSSIBLE  that one exists and
 I missed it.
4) Most of the crap he is pushing are known scams.  Incidentily,it is
impossible to "magnetize" water.
Lil - 22 Oct 2005 05:54 GMT
> > ...
> SCAM SITE !!
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> 4) Most of the crap he is pushing are known scams.  Incidentily,it is
> impossible to "magnetize" water.

I'm going to de-lurk because of this thread.

There IS an organization that certifies MDs in anti-aging, and they do
have a list of professional qualifications to be certified.  This
organization may have come about because anti-aging was and still is a
fairly new 'specialty' that while maybe the AMA doesn't recognize it, it
is at least comforting that some MDs are willing to make a study of the
inflammation patterns and chemical processes that lead to cellular
aging, and the possibilities of slowing down the process through
supplements, medications and diet. (I've lurked in this group awhile,
and I've sure read other poster's comments about MDs that won't upgrade
their education.)

It is called American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine.

http://www.worldhealth.net/p/97,362.html

Dr. Lam is listed there, with a host of other MDs and DOs.  He is in
California.  If you write to him he will even send you his address and
phone #.

I found Dr Lam a few years ago when I was trying to rid myself of the
long-term after-effects of SSRIs I was experiencing, since my MD at the
time said there was no such thing.  This was before the lawsuits against
big pharma that have forced the SSRI makers to admit that while perhaps
there isn't a withdrawl in the medical sense of the word, many people
have horrendous symptoms when they quit those hideous drugs--some of the
long term and/or permanent.  I was so suspicious of allopathic
physicians after that, but Dr. Lam offered some rather common sense ways
to begin the healing of the body through more natural means.

I've read most of his web site, and when compared to the bio-med and LE
reading I've done, I think for the most part his advice is based in good
nutrition, and for the most part sound.  He cautions readers to take it
carefully on supplement dosages, that high dose is not always better,
etc.

His advice on proline is excellent.  Any good supplement store can order
it for you.  Solgar is one company that makes it, and there are others.

What I like the most about Dr. Lam is that he will write back.  You can
send him what protocol your doc has you on, the supps you take, the diet
you eat, and he will write back with his opinion and suggestions as his
time allows.  No charge.  He is also willing to talk to MDs who don't
know about LE and anti-aging, and for me, he's been a doctor who listens
(when my now-fired MD was not interested, and just scripting Prozac,
when the problem all along was met syndrome that unfortunately turned
into D2).

Dr Perricone, for example, has sponsorship (or he sponsors) on public
television, and he's hawking anti-aging protocols big time.  And his
special formula protocols will cost you too.   Lam's is similar and free
for the reading.

He's been kind to me, and his responses to my questions, along with my
own readings of the research, have helped me sort out what was SSRI
remainder, what was D2, etc.  His advice is similar to that of the Linus
Pauling Institute at U of Oregon too, with regard to the effects of
various supplements one might take.

of course, everyone is different, everyone can choose or not choose.
Frankly, I'm glad Dr Lam is out there. Just like any other web site, one
needs to be open minded and think for themself.  Read as much as you
can, research your subject and get a dictionary if the big scientific
terms are unknown.  I compared the research about vitamin C overloads
for female diabetics and impact on vision, so I know that I cannot take
huge supplemental doses of it, even though Dr Lam suggests larger doses
(but again, this is in general, one needs to know one's own situation).
I am still wondering if a D2 woman who is under tight control would have
the overload effect.  Some day, that research will be done and
published.

so it's a YMMV.  Dr. Lam is not a scammer or any kind of quack.  Just my
humble opinion.

Lil
back to lurking
Jefferson - 22 Oct 2005 07:21 GMT
Ted did misspell Lam's name. Perhaps he could give a link for finding
out such information.

>>SCAM SITE !!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>4) Most of the crap he is pushing are known scams.  Incidentily,it is
>>impossible to "magnetize" water.

Lam does advocate different diets by blood types, i.e., A, B, AB, and O.
I have not found studies to support that idea.  Some of what he presents
on water such as filtering out clorine makes sense if one is trying to
maintain the best level of bacteria in the colon for fermenting
nondigestible carbohydrates (IMO).

> I'm going to de-lurk because of this thread.
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> California.  If you write to him he will even send you his address and
> phone #.

> so it's a YMMV.  Dr. Lam is not a scammer or any kind of quack.  Just my
> humble opinion.
Quentin Grady - 22 Oct 2005 08:48 GMT
This post not CC'd by email
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 02:21:19 -0400, Jefferson
<croom1935@netscape.net> wrote:

>Some of what he presents
>on water such as filtering out clorine makes sense if one is trying to
>maintain the best level of bacteria in the colon for fermenting
>nondigestible carbohydrates (IMO).

G'day G'day Frank,

ROTFL.  A bit different from kefir do you think.

Best wishes,
Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Quentin Grady - 22 Oct 2005 08:30 GMT
This post not CC'd by email

>I've read most of his web site, and when compared to the bio-med and LE
>reading I've done, I think for the most part his advice is based in good
>nutrition, and for the most part sound.  He cautions readers to take it
>carefully on supplement dosages, that high dose is not always better,
>etc.

G'day G'day Lil,

  Firstly let me salute your courage in posting.  There are many
reasons why your position will undoubtedly cause dissension.  

A.  Life extension at the moment is something that requires a good
deal of faith.  Famous life extensionists appear not to have been able
to extend their own lives.  The folks who really have had during
certain period longer lives on average eg Okinawans and people on
Crete, have done so without any life extension studies.

B.  The supplement industry is poorly regulated.  There have been
infamous cases where the products didn't match the labels.

C.  If one decides to use supplements then one has to accept the
reality that they are ... er supplements.  They don't take the place
of balanced nutrition and exercise.

>His advice on proline is excellent.  

What is your criteria for making this assertion?  

Did you yourself have some positive experience with proline
supplementation or is based on some scientific studies you can share?

>Any good supplement store can order
>it for you.  Solgar is one company that makes it, and there are others.

Solgar is over priced in New Zealand.  

Pharmaceutical grade supplements eg vitamins formulated for T2
diabetics can be bought from a national compounding pharmacy for much
less.  

>What I like the most about Dr. Lam is that he will write back.  You can
>send him what protocol your doc has you on, the supps you take, the diet
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>when the problem all along was met syndrome that unfortunately turned
>into D2).

Thanks for these comments. It makes it very clear why you hold him in
respect.  Of course you aren't a certifying organisation ... so that
while he may be a doctor for you ... don't expect this to be
recognised by others. Rather expect the opposite.

>Dr Perricone, for example, has sponsorship (or he sponsors) on public
>television, and he's hawking anti-aging protocols big time.  And his
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Pauling Institute at U of Oregon too, with regard to the effects of
>various supplements one might take.

Not sure equating him to the Linus Pauling Institute is a
recommendation.  Many people don't share their beliefs on the efficacy
of high doses of Vit C for instance.  

FWIIW mainstream opinion appears to be that in high doses Vit C acts
as a pro-oxidant and not an anti-oxidant.

>of course, everyone is different, everyone can choose or not choose.
>Frankly, I'm glad Dr Lam is out there. Just like any other web site, one
>needs to be open minded and think for themself.  

Only too true.  The catch is many people accept what seems plausible.
Suggestions to supplement or follow particular diets often seem
plausible and even backed up by small studies while not actually
working as thought once a sufficiently large sample is studied.

>Read as much as you
>can, research your subject and get a dictionary if the big scientific
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>the overload effect.  Some day, that research will be done and
>published.

Choose wisely.

>so it's a YMMV.  Dr. Lam is not a scammer or any kind of quack.  Just my
>humble opinion.
>
>Lil
>back to lurking

Life must have been awful to have been dependent on SSRI.  I'm glad
you have found a solution to this and can now lead a normal life.

Best wishes.

Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Lil - 22 Oct 2005 18:15 GMT

> A.  Life extension at the moment is something that requires a good
> deal of faith.  Famous life extensionists appear not to have been able
> to extend their own lives.  The folks who really have had during
> certain period longer lives on average eg Okinawans and people on
> Crete, have done so without any life extension studies.

I will agree that LE is not mainstream, can be fraught with strange
notions and even quackery, and that dealing with issues at the cellular
level is and probably always will raise questions and doubts.  But never
forget to look at the number of approved drugs that have been pulled
from the market because of the dangers.

You mention Okinawans and Crete...as they add the 'modern' processed
diet, they also experience the loss of longevity and fall prey to the
same cluster of diseases.  

If one reads Dr Lam's suggestions, the basis of what he is offering is
getting off a diet full of processed foods, to eating whole food in a
more natural form.  Heck, we process the vitamins and minerals out of so
many foods.  Look at wheat, oats and other grains.  The nearer to
natural form, the healthier it seems to be.  Meters show the difference
between refined grain produce consumption and whole grain
consumption...a person may spike eating either kind of course, but the
spikes will be different.  In some areas the soils are depleted and even
the vegetables can lack some of the minerals they would normally carry.

> B.  The supplement industry is poorly regulated.  There have been
> infamous cases where the products didn't match the labels.

I agree, but have found that there are makers who are very consistent
and have good QA on their production lines.  Again, research the mfg.

> C.  If one decides to use supplements then one has to accept the
> reality that they are ... er supplements.  They don't take the place
> of balanced nutrition and exercise.

Again, that is the basic premise of Dr Lam's site.  He does recommend
supplements, probably because he knows many folk will not choose to make
a conscious effort to get what they need through diet. The D2s who are
testing and testing and eating to their meters are making conscious
effort and I've read many times that some say they are in better health
now than before.  That health improvement probably meant taking heavily
processed and refined food out of the diet, I bet.  

Anecdotally and OT, I was scarey low on something as simple as
magnesium. The leafy veggies I was eating may have been grown on
partially depleted soil.   So perhaps that is a caveat as well.  Does
one know the source of one's food for one's balanced diet?  This might
become easier as more organically gown and tended produce is made
available.  Buying local and nowing who grew the produce and how they
tend their soil and fields could help.  Costly perhaps but could be a
wise move.

> >His advice on proline is excellent.
>
> What is your criteria for making this assertion?

My criteria is a lot of studying the research and making the decision
for myself.  There's research about the actions of proline and the other
amino acids within the human system, Google and Google scholar can point
the way.

> Solgar is over priced in New Zealand.

Yes it isn't an inexpensive brand in the US either, but they have strict
QA, so you are getting what you pay for.  

> Pharmaceutical grade supplements eg vitamins formulated for T2 diabetics can be bought from a national compounding pharmacy for much less.

Agreed, and those supplements contain much of what Dr Lam suggests.  

> Thanks for these comments. It makes it very clear why you hold him in
> respect.  Of course you aren't a certifying organisation ... so that
> while he may be a doctor for you ... don't expect this to be
> recognised by others. Rather expect the opposite.

I don't expect anyone to do more than just read what I wrote (or not)
and knee-jerk (or not) and make up their own minds.  He is certified by
an organization that is focused on a specialty that the mainstream
medical (AMA) does not yet include in their certification process.  He
is a licensed MD in California.

His advice about a less-processed diet, and supplements worked well for
me.  Better yet, it was refreshing to find an M.D. who has taken the
time to study nutrition and cellular needs.  

Another anecdote/OT:  I recently attended a lecture from the Head of the
Diabetes Research Clinic at the University of Washington Medical
School.  He is a most impassioned researcher and clinician himself.  He
stated most general practice interns in the US have 4 hours of training
in Diabetes management.  That may be why a diabetic nurse and diabetics
who take the time to learn about their disease know more than the doc
about managing their diabetes. he said he makes sure each intern has a
turn measuring dosages in a syringe, because they did not have a clue
about how big the shots were.  Most doctors take a course in nutrition
and leave that duty to nutritionist as well. Dr. Lam at least has
furthered his education about nutrition and bio chem.

> Not sure equating him to the Linus Pauling Institute is a recommendation.  Many people don't share their beliefs on the efficacy of high doses of Vit C for instance.

But many do and there is always disagreement in the research sector.
Pauling was vocal, and those against Pauling's research are vocal.  Good
science requires debate and proof.  I guess it becomes a personal choice
as to what side a person chooses.  :)

Debate and more importantly, the research continues so it becomes a
win-win thing, don't you think?  Supplements vs. gaining Vit C via the
diet.  It is interesting to watch the dueling research.

> Only too true.  The catch is many people accept what seems plausible.
> Suggestions to supplement or follow particular diets often seem
> plausible and even backed up by small studies while not actually
> working as thought once a sufficiently large sample is studied.

I agree there will always be arguments about what a proper diet is, but
again, Lam's basic premise seems to be that if you clean up your diet,
avoid processed and over-refined foods (are white flours, sugars,
processed meats, overcooked vegetables health building?) a person's
health will improve.  He also cautions readers not to go overboard on
supplements, that more is not necessarily better and that with an
improved diet, less supplementation is necessary.  It appears that many
of the specific protocols he offers are to help rebuild health, and are
not for continued long-term use at those levels.

As far as what is found on any website or any group or any book, caveat
emptor.  A bit if healthy skepticism is a good thing.

> Life must have been awful to have been dependent on SSRI.  I'm glad you have found a solution to this and can now lead a normal life.

The odd thing was that I went to the doctor concerned about cloudy and
confused thinking and a whole lot of what I now know were diabetes
symptoms, but the doctor, immediately deduced depression rather than
examining further, knee jerked with the first SSRI script.  If a FBG had
been ordered, we may have gotten to the root of the issue.  Subsequent
MDs, seeing the word 'depression' in the chart, never looked past that
diagnosis.  Lord knows how long I was diabetic w/o diagnosis...probably
10 years.  I took myself off the first SSRI prescription after 4 months
because of the symptoms that med caused, and went through the hell of
the withdrawl.  Like a fool, a few years later and still questioning why
I was having all the symptoms I now know were diabetes/syndrome x
related, I was prescribed a second type of SSRI and that lasted less
than 2 months because of things that cropped up because of that SSRI.
None of the doc's investigated for D2 and poo-poo'd my request that we
take a look to rule out Syndrome X.  No blood work done at all.  I
really had lost faith in allopathic medicine at that point.

I appreciate Dr. Lam because he's an MD who isn't just listening to
pharma sales reps and giving out the free samples but instead is
offering an alternative. I did not get the impression that he is against
prescription medications either, but that in some cases, nutrition can
provide relief.   SSRIs have a place and can save and/or improve
someone's life if there is a bona fide clinical depression, but in my
case they were a quick 'fix'. The underlying problem was not resolved.
The very simple no-refined, no processed diet protocol recommended by
Lam helped me get some relief from some of the symptoms (knock off
refined carbs and glucose goes down...) which would come back if I fell
off of it.

By becoming informed by doing a LOT of study of the existing body of
research and the new research being published daily, and assessing what
Dr Lam offered on his website and in our email exchanges, and checking
the research on his recommendations (I don't take everything he suggests
and on some of the other supps, I take a much smaller dosage) I refused
to accept any more SSRI prescriptions, and demanded a good look at my
entire system.  Gee whiz, um, ooops, D2.  

Lam is offering suggested protocols based on the study he's done.  Take
it or leave it.  While it is a sad truth that some people believe
everything they read without question, then well, that becomes their
problem. Rather like mine when I accepted SSRIs for a depression I
didn't have.  Now I ask my questions and seek information, continue my
education into the subject (the molecular and cellular chemical
interactions are fascinating, and decide what was right for me (and not
anyone else).

Odd by-product of all this?  No depression symptoms (the long-term
residuals of the SSRIs are still around) and D2 so far being controlled
by diet, exercise and supplements as needed.

It just made me sad to see Dr. Lam being slammed.  He offers what he
knows and believes, doesn't coerce anyone, is responsive to email
quesstions sent to him, and is a very kind person.  He does not deserve
being slammed.

ok, now back to lurking.  :)

Lil
Quentin Grady - 22 Oct 2005 18:57 GMT
This post not CC'd by email

>You mention Okinawans and Crete...as they add the 'modern' processed
>diet, they also experience the loss of longevity and fall prey to the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>getting off a diet full of processed foods, to eating whole food in a
>more natural form.

G'day G'day Lil,

 Thank you.  I find I have very little useful comment to make.
Some conversation die simply because there is nothing much else left
to say.  

A couple of times you mention words to the effect that a diet of whole
food in a more natural form as something that Dr Lam offers.  That
strikes me a strange.  

Is it his to offer?

I don't meant to be corny or anything.  Perhaps I'm have a
trans-Pacific mistranslation moment.  To me and most New Zealanders
when someone offers one something it is something which one isn't
supposed to feel entitled to help oneself to off one's own bat.

The idea that many diseases are the result of the industrialization of
food is IMHO common property along with the notion that eating a less
processed diet is helpful.

Best wishes,

PS.  I strongly advise you to read the long term (15 year) study that
Frank Jefferson posted on the dangers of supplemented Vit C in
diabetic women.

Signature

Quentin Grady       ^  ^  /
New Zealand,       >#,#< [
                   / \ /\    
"... and the blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Lil - 22 Oct 2005 20:22 GMT
> G'day G'day Lil,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> food is IMHO common property along with the notion that eating a less
> processed diet is helpful.

ah the vagaries of language.  I should have chosen my wording better.
Something such as "pixel patterns generated from the HTML code provided
from the file via the server when parsed by the user's browser for
placement on the user's monitor screen".

I apologize for the using a word that does not cross cultures well.

"offing one's own bat" in the US means killing a small furry flying
creature one owns"  Is that what you meant?

> PS.  I strongly advise you to read the long term (15 year) study that
> Frank Jefferson posted on the dangers of supplemented Vit C in
> diabetic women.

I've already read that and many other studies about GLUT transport
issues--JClinNutr had an interesting study on the GLUT4 transport
appearing to increase intraocular C content because of a fault that does
not adequately transport the metabolized form back out, leading,
possibly, to retinopathy in some diabetic women.

The vitamin C controversy will continue.  

L
noneyabusiness - 22 Oct 2005 08:22 GMT
>> Ran across this site.
>> He seems to have an opinion on a wide variety of topics.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>4) Most of the crap he is pushing are known scams.  Incidentily,it is
>impossible to "magnetize" water.

Thanks for looking into this.

But, was his description of the processes involved in Diabetes and
becoming diabetic accurate or bogus?

...
Ma¢k - 24 Oct 2005 15:23 GMT
>Ran across this site.
>He seems to have an opinion on a wide variety of topics.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>TIA

He's a supplement scammer amongst other things and does actually state
the common scammer lie that diabetes is curable.

And you would think a real doctor would know how to proof read his
scams before uploading them to the net.

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Type 1 since 1975
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President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

 
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