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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / October 2005Mexican food is good to me
I finally saw a sub-120 PPBG today for the first time in a month or more. Dinner was chicken sour cream enchiladas made with corn tortillas and only enough sour cream for flavor. I skipped the rice and beans and ordered a (mostly iceberg) lettuce/tomato/avocado salad instead. One hour PPBG was 95, two hour was 89. I'm certainly not celebrating, but it makes me wonder what about my physiology has changed so substantially. I guess I'll go back to eating only dried corn carbs for a few days, then add back a few wheat carbs to see what happens. +++++++++++++ Reply to the list as I do not publish an email address to USENET. This practice has cut my spam by more than 95%. Of course, I did have to abandon a perfectly good email account... Wooly, I had the same situation with Chili's Chicken Explosion salad that has tortilla, black beans, and corn in a chipotle-seasoned balsamic dressing. I was amazed, but my body just thrives on it. I can also eat some Subway and Safeway 1/2 subs with chicken or turkey and provalone or Swiss (plus all the veggies available) and not see much of a blip. In fact, chicken or turkey--especially the breast--seems to really help control my sugar. pc Wooly, Your post inspired me to actually try some enchiladas (a pre-Dx favorite). It was a "TV dinner" type entree, but a high-end one with no filler. It was shredded beef, herbs, stone ground corn tortillas, onions, etc, and cheddar cheese. So, I've been testing ever 30 minutes, and so far it seems to have given me no rise at 1 hour pp, and a delayed rise at two hours of all of 12 points, and back down again at 3 hours. So, not only do I consider this test a success, but I'm delighted! It's given me back a food I loved, AND, more importantly to me, it's a type of "convenience food" I can have on occasion. Thanks, Wooly!!! >Wooly, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Thanks, Wooly!!! 12 points in the American system or in the UK system. 12 points in the American system would be fabulous. In the system used in the UK, Australia and other countries would be huge. -- Grandpa Chuck -ô¿ô- ~ A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle. Love is giving all with no conditions. Love is expecting nothing in return. >>Wooly, >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >12 points in the American system or in the UK system. American... BG 87 to BG 99, to be exact. >12 points in the American system would be fabulous. >In the system used in the UK, Australia and other countries would be >huge. That, sir, is an understatement! :-) > Wooly, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It was shredded beef, herbs, stone ground corn tortillas, onions, etc, > and cheddar cheese. You can get low carb tortillas and make your own enchilada sauce, too. DH likes to have fajita seasoned meat in his. He just needs to skip the rice.  SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes >> Wooly, >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >You can get low carb tortillas and make your own enchilada sauce, too. DH >likes to have fajita seasoned meat in his. He just needs to skip the rice. I've had no trouble so far with canned Enchilada sauce, as it's not bad on carbs for some brands. However, making my own sounds like fun, so I'll give that a try. I've made enchiladas from the low-carb tortillas a few times, even before Dx. I am not fond of the "filler" in many of them (rice and beans) so I make my own from shredded beef, onions, cilantro, peppers, etc, etc. I have to go very easy on them as I love them with cheddar cheese, making a high calorie food even more of a calorie bomb. > I have to go very easy on them as I love them with cheddar cheese, > making a high calorie food even more of a calorie bomb. I love cheese enchiladas with a lot of onions in the filling. Yummy! SignatureSee my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm >> I have to go very easy on them as I love them with cheddar cheese, >> making a high calorie food even more of a calorie bomb. > >I love cheese enchiladas with a lot of onions in the filling. Yummy! I'm fortunate that onions don't bother my BG's, so I can load up on them. I often use green onions too. And, if I won't be meeting clients face-to-face the following day, garlic... > I've had no trouble so far with canned Enchilada sauce, as it's not > bad on carbs for some brands. However, making my own sounds like fun, > so I'll give that a try. Yummy, you get to decide how much chili powder, cumin, garlic, whatever. It smells heavenly toasting the spices. I make sure the tomato sauce and chicken broth have no added sugar, so many of them do. My mouth is watering, I need to make some soon. I'll freeze it in ice cube trays and pull out a few cubes when I want some. > I've made enchiladas from the low-carb tortillas a few times, even > before Dx. I am not fond of the "filler" in many of them (rice and > beans) so I make my own from shredded beef, onions, cilantro, peppers, > etc, etc. I like shredded chicken in mine with sour cream on top. DH prefers grilled, fajita-seasoned, sliced venison or beef. SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes Aren't the low carb tortillas flour? Enchiladas are made with corn tortillas. Signaturejacquie I don't suffer from insanity.... I enjoy every minute of it! > Wooly, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It was shredded beef, herbs, stone ground corn tortillas, onions, etc, > and cheddar cheese. You can get low carb tortillas and make your own enchilada sauce, too. DH likes to have fajita seasoned meat in his. He just needs to skip the rice. SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes > Aren't the low carb tortillas flour? Enchiladas are made with corn > tortillas. My enchiladas aren't made with corn. Maybe if I saw some low carb corn ones I might try them. SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes I was just looking on the back of the ortega taco shell carbs...they are 19 carbs for two. That's not to bad for two corn tortillas for enchiladas. When we go for Mexican food I usually have two Flautas(rolled tacos) and a salad. Sometimes I will order a chicken chimi and eat half then take home the other half for lunch. I don't get a spike that way:) Signaturejacquie I don't suffer from insanity.... I enjoy every minute of it! > Aren't the low carb tortillas flour? Enchiladas are made with corn > tortillas. My enchiladas aren't made with corn. Maybe if I saw some low carb corn ones I might try them. SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes This post not CC'd by email >I finally saw a sub-120 PPBG today for the first time in a month or >more. Dinner was chicken sour cream enchiladas made with corn [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >substantially. I guess I'll go back to eating only dried corn carbs >for a few days, then add back a few wheat carbs to see what happens. G'day G'day, Well done. Random successes can inspire us. There is nothing quite knowing that one can get sub-120 PPBG to encourage us to find ways to do it more often and eventually make it routine. I see you are exploring the possibility that your success might have something to do with some difference in the way you bodies responds to corn and to wheat. It might or it might not. It could be that you had the corn with sour cream which lowered the glycemic index of corn. Organic acids eg vinegar reduce the glycemic index of meals. Am I right in thinking you don't have sour cream with wheat based meals? Another salient point appears to be that chicken, sour cream, lettuce, tomato and avocado are all low in carbohydrates. (I'm not too sure about the sour cream ... sometimes products with the same names are different items in different countries.) There is probably some threshold for glycemic load below which your blood glucose doesn't go high. A third point is how coarsely or finely the cornmeal is ground for the tortillas. Roughly stone ground corn meal is a very different commodities from fine corn flour. Whatever. The key thing is you have succeeded and that means you can do it again. Best wishes, SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin > Well done. Random successes can inspire us. There is nothing quite >knowing that one can get sub-120 PPBG to encourage us to find ways to >do it more often and eventually make it routine. There is a bit of a trap here for the more anal (who? Me?) amongst us: Chasing the goals, then moving the goalposts. Setting a goal, then achieving it, can lead to the natural temptation to lower the goal again, and again, and again. My original goal was a 1 hour PP of under 140. Once i'd achieved that, I aimed for 130, then 120, then 110, then 100. Soon, I found myself kicking foods off my menu for "spiking" me to 112, splitting my meals to minimize the BG impact, and fretting a bit if I hit 120. This IMHO was inadvisable, as it diminished the variety of my diet, and was a pain in the neck. I've since re-set my limits to more sensible levels, and am trying more (healthy) carbs, etc. >I see you are exploring the possibility that your success might have >something to do with some difference in the way you bodies responds to >corn and to wheat. It might or it might not. It could be that you >had the corn with sour cream which lowered the glycemic index of corn. >Organic acids eg vinegar reduce the glycemic index of meals. Interestingly, the only foods that have ever spiked me past 140 (since about day 9 when I got my BG's under control) have wheat in them. Even the can of regular coca-cola I accidentally drank only kicked me up to 143. However, half a slice of wheat bread sent me past 150. >Am I right in thinking you don't have sour cream with wheat based >meals? >Another salient point appears to be that chicken, sour cream, lettuce, >tomato and avocado are all low in carbohydrates. (I'm not too sure >about the sour cream ... sometimes products with the same names are >different items in different countries.) There is probably some >threshold for glycemic load below which your blood glucose doesn't go >high. Sour cream in the US seems to vary. There are differences in carbs between brands, and big differences between low-fat and regular. IIRC that most full-fat ones have one carb, others two carbs, per two tbsp serving. Loads of fat, though. I can probably guess what happened. As a T2, once you began to take care of yourself and got your glucose to managable levels for a period of time, you're now able to handle "carbs" much like you did prior to becoming diabetic... thus why so many can scam the unknowing... that they are cured... go back to eating what you did prior and you'll see those high numbers again... but why skimp on the sour cream? that has nearly zero carbs in it... and the fat content would have helped to slow the carbs you ate even down further.. ---- RK, T1/pumper/Animas IR1250 |I finally saw a sub-120 PPBG today for the first time in a month or | more. Dinner was chicken sour cream enchiladas made with corn [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] | This practice has cut my spam by more than 95%. | Of course, I did have to abandon a perfectly good email account... That is an interesting theory. Would that be because of a decrease in IR or does the beta cells recover their ability to supply insulin? > I can probably guess what happened. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > did prior to becoming diabetic... thus why so many can > scam the unknowing... that they are cured... snip Not theory at all. I've seen it happen time and time again. It's more a reduction in IR, thus allowing the beta cells to work a bit more "normal" because they aren't so overworked. Doubtful a newly dx'd T2 has little Beta cell function left, most times they have an over abundance of insulin production because the cells are closed and force the body to produce more and more insulin, thus the IR Sadly, I don't have this option for myself. ---- RK, T1/pumper/Animas IR1250 | That is an interesting theory. Would that be because of a decrease in IR or | does the beta cells recover their ability to supply insulin? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] | > | snip On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 03:23:34 GMT, "RK" <reisak@gmail.com> spewed forth >I can probably guess what happened. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >go back to eating what you did prior and you'll see those >high numbers again... Nah, I don't think that's it, but it can certainly be a working thesis for experimentation. When I was Dxd in June I dropped all carbs but oatmeal from my diet for a couple of weeks. I ate, I tested, I no longer eat a lot of things I'd like to - including potatoes, most wheat-based carbs, pasta, rice unless its brown basmati and then I limit myself to only a spoonful or two. There are several broad categories of "corn". I know from my baking adventures that most (not all, but most) cornmeal is made from dent corn because it has lower moisture and thus better grinding characteristics than flint corn (which is what most popcorn is) or dried sweet corn (find this in your survival foods catalog under "dehydrated vegetables"). I'd also be willing to bet that dent corn has a lower starch content than flint corn and I *know* its lower than sweetcorn. At any rate. My eating habits during the past 4-5 weeks haven't changed Gosh, now I want an ear of Illini Supersweet, hot from the kettle and dipped in melted butter... +++++++++++++ Reply to the list as I do not publish an email address to USENET. This practice has cut my spam by more than 95%. Of course, I did have to abandon a perfectly good email account... think what you want, think I've been at this a bit longer then you have and have helped quite a few T2's locally be able to increase their diets as well as seen it happen here as well.. you're IR decreases thus allowing you to occasionally have more carbs... but hey... guess you know more *sigh* ---- RK, T1/pumper/Animas IR1250 | On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 03:23:34 GMT, "RK" <reisak@gmail.com> spewed forth | [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] | This practice has cut my spam by more than 95%. | Of course, I did have to abandon a perfectly good email account... On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 04:34:00 GMT, "RK" <reisak@gmail.com> spewed forth >but hey... guess you know more *sigh* Yes, I do know more about what I'm eating, when I'm eating it, how much I'm excercising, and what my BG does when presented with various carb sources. I'm all eyes if you know something about the chemical differences between corn and wheat starches and why they might be handled differently in the human body. It would be nice to know why I can eat a whole cup of cornmeal mush for breakfast and never see a blip but a half-cup of steel-cut oats gives me a 30-point rise or a quarter-cup of whole-grain wheat mush gives me a 70-point rise. +++++++++++++ Reply to the list as I do not publish an email address to USENET. This practice has cut my spam by more than 95%. Of course, I did have to abandon a perfectly good email account... I'm all eyes if you know something about the chemical > differences between corn and wheat starches and why they might be > handled differently in the human body. It would be nice to know why I > can eat a whole cup of cornmeal mush for breakfast and never see a > blip but a half-cup of steel-cut oats gives me a 30-point rise or a > quarter-cup of whole-grain wheat mush gives me a 70-point rise. Maybe it has something to do with the digestibility of the cornmeal used? Some corn meal is like little bits of rock and perhaps more of it goes through to the gut undigested. That would make it more like pasta. Which also means that it might be a good idea to look at 5 hour numbers or your fasting number the next day to see if it shows up there. --Jenny http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/ Type 2 Diabetes info http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Low Carb info >Maybe it has something to do with the digestibility of the cornmeal >used? Some corn meal is like little bits of rock and perhaps more of it >goes through to the gut undigested. That would make it more like pasta. >Which also means that it might be a good idea to look at 5 hour numbers >or your fasting number the next day to see if it shows up there. I honestly don't know. My mill is a flour mill, so I can make corn flour at home but I have to buy my cornmeal for mush (polenta, if you're feeling snooty hehe). I use white dent corn currently - I bought a 50# bag from the food coop back in April and it goes a LOOOONG way. My cornbread is 90% corn flour with just enough commercial gluten flour - 13% protein wheat flour, IIRC - to hold it together and I don't use sugar in the recipe. I can eat a square 4" on a side with a protein-greens meal and see about 5 points rise over the next six hours. I buy white cornmeal at the store for making polenta. One cooked cup of mush for breakfast with a packet of Splenda doesn't blip me at all, so I assume the blip from cornbread is actually from the WHEAT component of the cornbread. My home-ground sourdough (Montana Golden 86 wheat) added to an otherwise carb-free meal will raise my BG anywhere from 15 to 40 points depending on how much I have - one slice half an inch thick way too much, half a slice is acceptable but spikes me nonetheless. I'm thinking I just don't get along with wheat products. *sigh* +++++++++++++ Reply to the list as I do not publish an email address to USENET. This practice has cut my spam by more than 95%. Of course, I did have to abandon a perfectly good email account... > It would be nice to know why I can eat a whole cup of cornmeal mush for breakfast and > never see a blip but a half-cup of steel-cut oats gives me a 30-point rise or a > quarter-cup of whole-grain wheat mush gives me a 70-point rise. Per Brand-Miller (also posted in part on Mendosa), here is a partial clue. The 3 numbers are Glycemic Index, Serving Size in Grams, and Glycemic Load (note the serving size--puffed whole grains are actually very small servings). Cornmeal and oat bran are really the only cereal-type grains that make the glycemic "cut" on this list. The cereal aisle is pretty much poison to me except for a few items. Cornmeal, boiled in salted water 2 min 68 150 9 Weetabix 74 30 16 Shredded Wheat (Nabisco) 83 30 17 Puffed Wheat (Quaker) 67 30 13 Puffed Wheat (Sanitarium) 80±11 30 17 Rolled Oat Porridge (USA) 75 250 17 Oat bran, raw (Quaker) 50 10 2 Oat bran, raw 59 10 3 Cream of Wheat (Nabisco) 66 250 17 Not listed above--I love puffed wheat from Arrowhead farms--whole grain, no added sugar or salt, and I tolerate it well. I still have to eat a little protein and veggies with it (that's just a fact of life for me now). I can also get away with the whole long-cooking oats in small quantities (Quaker's 5 minute variety), but I suspect we all have our own unique chemistry. I've started eating vinegar-doused veggies and lowfat cheese all times of day, for example, because it helps tremendously with my numbers. Cody This post not CC'd by email On 15 Oct 2005 14:42:42 -0700, "pinecone" <poodlebreeze@netscape.net> wrote: >> It would be nice to know why I can eat a whole cup of cornmeal mush for breakfast and >> never see a blip but a half-cup of steel-cut oats gives me a 30-point rise or a [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Oat bran, raw 59 10 3 >Cream of Wheat (Nabisco) 66 250 17 G'day G'day pinecone, It makes one wonder about one's grip on reality when one replies to a pinecone. It is one thing to talk to the pinecone but to attempt to converse with one ... Thanks for the information. I suspected that those who were eating puffed wheat on the pretext that is was whole grain were fooling themselves but hadn't followed up on the thought ... so thanks. The cornMEAL could well come closer to being whole grain if it is coarsely grown unlike cornFLOUR. The ratios are quite staggering. The serving of cornmeal is FIVE times greater but the glycemic load is HALF. That gives a relative safety factor of TEN for boiled corn meal over puffed wheat. >Not listed above--I love puffed wheat from Arrowhead farms--whole >grain, no added sugar or salt, and I tolerate it well. I still have to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >and lowfat cheese all times of day, for example, because it helps >tremendously with my numbers. Thanks for that feed back. The silly scientist I mentioned in another thread added the fact that vinegar reduced glycemic indices as another reason why the general public should not be encouraged to know about glycemic index. Such variations would obviously be too dangerous for the general public to handle. <grin> I would have thought it a good reason to educate the public on how foods interact. Best wishes, >Cody SignatureQuentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin >I finally saw a sub-120 PPBG today for the first time in a month or >more. Dinner was chicken sour cream enchiladas made with corn >tortillas and only enough sour cream for flavor. I skipped the rice >and beans and ordered a (mostly iceberg) lettuce/tomato/avocado salad >instead. >One hour PPBG was 95, two hour was 89. I'm certainly not celebrating, >but it makes me wonder what about my physiology has changed so >substantially. I guess I'll go back to eating only dried corn carbs >for a few days, then add back a few wheat carbs to see what happens. That is very interesting! I had assumed that corn tortillas would be a "spiky" food. You have inspired me to give them a test. Congratulations on your good results!! |
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