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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / October 2005

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Nutritional Supplements  and Diabetes

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Mikael - 12 Oct 2005 03:09 GMT
I have been reading that some nutritional supplements such as Bitter Melon,
Chromium, Zinc, and so on are good for bringing down glucose numbers.  I am
thinking of trying Bitter Melon. Has any one else had success with
supplements? I am open to suggestions and advice. Thank you.
Thomas Muffaletto - 12 Oct 2005 03:40 GMT
>I have been reading that some nutritional supplements such as Bitter Melon,
>Chromium, Zinc, and so on are good for bringing down glucose numbers.  I am
>thinking of trying Bitter Melon. Has any one else had success with
>supplements? I am open to suggestions and advice. Thank you.

press the link below and on the pages upper right corner
you will see a search button.  put in each of those items
you mentioned one at a time and see if they lead to anything.
also check out cinnamon
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts...
Your American Diabetes Association
http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp

Signature

Tom
Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow

Information you can trust from the diabetes experts...
Your American Diabetes Association
http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp
the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards
http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index
Pictures of My motorcycle and I think 2 of my doggies.
http://www.adventurseofvtx1300c.com.50megs.com/photo.html

Susan - 12 Oct 2005 04:51 GMT
> I have been reading that some nutritional supplements such as Bitter Melon,
> Chromium, Zinc, and so on are good for bringing down glucose numbers.  I am
> thinking of trying Bitter Melon. Has any one else had success with
> supplements? I am open to suggestions and advice. Thank you.

I've had very good results with alpha lipoic acid for peripheral
neuropathy reversal.  Chromium has been shown in many clinical studies
to aid in glucose control, too.  I'd avoid the picolinate form, though,
in favor of GTF.

Susan
ted rosenerg - 12 Oct 2005 15:02 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Susan
Chromium has NEVER been shown ro work
all the scam studies are by the people who hold the patent on chromium
poccolate
It HAS been shown to be dangerous to your health - and U of Alabama
Medical School has issued warnings against its use

ANYTHING called a "supplement" should be suspect.  If it were real, it
would not be in the "snake oil exception" to the pure food and drug act.
Susan - 12 Oct 2005 16:44 GMT
ted rosenerg quacked in profound ignorance as usual:

> Chromium has NEVER been shown ro work
> all the scam studies are by the people who hold the patent on chromium
> poccolate
> It HAS been shown to be dangerous to your health - and U of Alabama
> Medical School has issued warnings against its use

Here's what smart folks found:

> 1: Biol Trace Elem Res. 1996 Dec; 55(3): 297-305.  Related Articles, Links  
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Chromium is an essential nutrient involved in normal carbohydrate and lipid metabolism. The chromium requirement is postulated to increase with increased glucose intolerance and diabetes. The objective of this study was to test the hypothesis that the elevated intake of supplemental chromium is involved in the control of type 2 diabetes. Individuals being treated for type 2 diabetes (180 men and women) were divided randomly into three groups and supplemented with: 1) placebo, 2) 1.92 micromol (100 microg) Cr as chromium picolinate two times per day, or 3) 9.6 micromol (500 microg) Cr two times per day. Subjects continued to take their normal medications and were instructed not to change their normal eating and living habits. HbA1c values improved significantly after 2 months in the group receiving 19.2 pmol (1,000 microg) Cr per day and was lower in both chromium groups after 4 months (placebo, 8.5 +/- 0.2%; 3.85 micromol Cr, 7.5 +/- 0.2%; 19.2 micromol Cr, 6.6 +/- 0.1%).
Fasting glucose was lower in the 19.2-micromol group after 2 and 4 months (4-month values: placebo, 8.8 +/- 0.3 mmol/l; 19.2 micromol Cr, 7.1 +/- 0.2 mmol/l). Two-hour glucose values were also significantly lower for the subjects consuming 19.2 micromol supplemental Cr after both 2 and 4 months (4-month values: placebo, 12.3 +/- 0.4 mmo/l; 19.2 micromol Cr, 10.5 +/- 0.2 mmol/l). Fasting and 2-h insulin values decreased significantly in both groups receiving supplemental chromium after 2 and 4 months. Plasma total cholesterol also decreased after 4 months in the subjects receiving 19.2 micromol/day Cr. These data demonstrate that supplemental chromium had significant beneficial effects on HbA1c, glucose, insulin, and cholesterol variables in subjects with type 2 diabetes. The beneficial effects of chromium in individuals with diabetes were observed at levels higher than the upper limit of the Estimated Safe and Adequate Daily Dietary Intake.

> Publication Types:
> Clinical Trial
> Randomized Controlled Trial
>
> PMID: 9356027 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

> “Chromium in Health and Disease”
> A Council for the Advancement of Diabetes Research and Education (CADRE)
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> According to Dr. Jovanovic, gestational diabetes is the most common problem complicating pregnancy today. An estimated 135,000 women have gestational diabetes, posing a risk to both the mother and the infant. High levels of blood sugar in the pregnant woman cross the placenta, triggering the beginnings of insulin resistance in utero. The child is then predisposed to overweight. If the child is female, she is more likely to develop gestational diabetes during her own pregnancy as an adult and pass it on to her child. A significant percentage of women with gestational diabetes require insulin to manage blood glucose levels. Pregnancy is a normal state of chromium wasting, so it seems logical that intake should be increased. Most prenatal vitamins, however, contain no chromium. A clinical study was conducted in which 20 gestational diabetic women were given either chromium picolinate supplements or placebo. After eight weeks, those who were given chromium supplements had sign
ificantly lower glucose and insulin levels compared with their own baseline levels and with the placebo group.

> Dr. Jovanovic concluded her presentation by saying that reduction of the severity of glucose intolerance in pregnancy by chromium supplementation might provide an easy and inexpensive means to reduce the problems related to maternal hyperglycemia and the devastating health effects on both mother and infant.
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Vitamin C and oxalate increase chromium absorption. Prostaglandins decrease chromium absorption, and aspirin and indomethacin, which inhibit prostaglandins, increase absorption. Components involved in formulating chromium capsules can also affect absorption. Carbohydrates used as fillers in supplement capsules have been shown to bind to several forms of chromium, including chromium polynicotinate and chromium chloride, making them essentially inert regarding absorption. Picolinic acid and histidine forms are stable complexes of chromium and allow them to be readily absorbed and are not affected by starch fillers. Even though one study shows chromium nicotinic acid to be better absorbed than chromium picolinate, this study used very low levels of radiolabeled chromium, which acts differently than the higher doses normally taken in supplement form. Because chromium absorption is increased at lower levels of intake, a greater absorption is seen. Chromium glutathione is also n
ot absorbed and has no effects on glucose metabolism.

> Mechanism of Action
> Dr. Cefalu, John Vincent, Ph.D. from the University of Alabama, David Brautigan, Ph.D. of the University of Virginia School of Medicine and Dennis Mynarcik, Ph.D. of the State University of New York at Stony Brook, presented theories and findings regarding the mechanism of action of chromium on insulin in cells.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Summary
> In summary, chromium research has grown considerably over the last few years. No longer are the only studies in weight loss and body composition. There is a clear link between chromium and insulin sensitivity. Chromium supplementation appears to be safe and beneficial in a number of conditions caused by insulin resistance. Epidemiological research is also beginning to further clarify the impact of chromium deficiency. It was encouraging to see the number of studies currently ongoing or planned that should continue to add to a large body of science demonstrating the benefits of chromium supplementation.

Susan
Priscilla H. Ballou - 12 Oct 2005 17:44 GMT
> ANYTHING called a "supplement" should be suspect.  If it were real, it
> would not be in the "snake oil exception" to the pure food and drug act.

"Supplements" are called that because they supplement (add to) the
amount of the substance in our normal diet.  There's nothing unreal
about them.

Priscilla
ted rosenerg - 13 Oct 2005 10:25 GMT
>>ANYTHING called a "supplement" should be suspect.  If it were real, it
>>would not be in the "snake oil exception" to the pure food and drug act.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Priscilla
No
"supplements" are a category in the Pure food and drug act

You have FOOD, which is regulated as to purity
you have Drugs which are regulated as to purity and effectiveness
and you have "supplements", which are unregulated.  This is the snake
oil exemption which allows scammers to sell almost any crap.

Suckers like you believe that a "supplement" is actually to supplement
something
Terry Stone - 12 Oct 2005 19:21 GMT
Ted,
   Has provided a good point here and one needs to ensure if they are
going to use a supplement it does not harm you and hopefully helps. I
can only say that I have used chromium and it helped a little not a
great deal as some would like to make you believe.
   The two supplements which have been prescribed (in the loose form of
the word) to me by my doctors are - calcium with magnesium for those
with diabetes to replace what is drained by the illness, and omega-3
complex for cholesterol and such.
   Talk to your doctor and do your research to make an informed decision.
Terry Stone

>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> ANYTHING called a "supplement" should be suspect.  If it were real, it
> would not be in the "snake oil exception" to the pure food and drug act.
Terry Stone - 12 Oct 2005 20:04 GMT
Priscilla,
   This should have been addressed to you saying "Ted has...."
Sorry
Terry

> Ted,
>    Has provided a good point here and one needs to ensure if they are
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>> ANYTHING called a "supplement" should be suspect.  If it were real, it
>> would not be in the "snake oil exception" to the pure food and drug act.
Priscilla H. Ballou - 12 Oct 2005 20:32 GMT
> Priscilla,
>     This should have been addressed to you saying "Ted has...."

Why?  First off, he didn't make the point you reference, and second,
this is not responsive to what I wrote.

Priscilla

> Sorry
> Terry
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> >> ANYTHING called a "supplement" should be suspect.  If it were real, it
> >> would not be in the "snake oil exception" to the pure food and drug act.
Susan - 12 Oct 2005 20:20 GMT
> Ted,
>    Has provided a good point here and one needs to ensure if they are
> going to use a supplement it does not harm you and hopefully helps.

Ted made no such point.

Susan
Ma¢k - 13 Oct 2005 01:53 GMT
>x-no-archive: eys
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Susan

actually he did.  Their are many scams and medical frauds sold as
supplements making claims that are just flat out false.  AND there is
a clause in the pure food and drug act that allows these scams to be
sold as "health supplements".  Hopefully, one day they will change
this and require all such items that make ANY medical claim to be
required to prove it with independent studies by legit labs and
researchers not funded by the manufacturers.

Signature

Mâck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Susan - 13 Oct 2005 02:40 GMT
> actually he did.
  Their are many scams and medical frauds sold as
> supplements making claims that are just flat out false.  AND there is
> a clause in the pure food and drug act that allows these scams to be
> sold as "health supplements".  Hopefully, one day they will change
> this and require all such items that make ANY medical claim to be
> required to prove it with independent studies by legit labs and
> researchers not funded by the manufacturers.

Seriously, Mack.  The above bears no relation to what Ted wrote.  What
Ted claims is completely false.

Ted said none of what the OP plucked out of his, well, you know.

Ted just ranted irrationally and made no sense.

As usual.

Susan
ted rosenerg - 13 Oct 2005 10:27 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Susan
No stupid
\I said exactly that

if it is called a "supplement" it is totally unregulated
Ma¢k - 13 Oct 2005 21:02 GMT
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 05:28:15 -0400, ted rosenerg
<tedrosenberrg@iname.com> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>> x-no-archive: yes
>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>if it is called a "supplement" it is totally unregulated

Ted is correct, you can buy a supplement and the label may say it
contains something in specific amounts, however the label can be
completely false.  Because the industry is unregulated.

You should watch the various senate hearings on supplement dealers.
Under oath most can't even tell you why they use certain ingredients
and their so called research is sketchy when it even exists.

If you actually need to supplement something in your diet a licensed
MD or dietician will be your best bet to find out if you do or not.
And getting what you actually pay for is best achieved by buying
through your pharmacy not any of the health stores on or off line.

Signature

Mâck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Susan - 13 Oct 2005 21:18 GMT
> Ted is correct, you can buy a supplement and the label may say it
> contains something in specific amounts, however the label can be
> completely false.  Because the industry is unregulated.

Ted didn't say that.

> You should watch the various senate hearings on supplement dealers.
> Under oath most can't even tell you why they use certain ingredients
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> And getting what you actually pay for is best achieved by buying
> through your pharmacy not any of the health stores on or off line.

We're just never going to agree about this.  First of all, one can check
out numerous supplements at www.consumerlabs.com for free, and many
others for a subscription fee.  Second, some supplement manufacturers
adhere to an independent lab testing program to assure quality.  Third,
many studies have found (as I've posted, in refutation of Ted's
irrational rants) beneficial effects of the particular supplements under
discussion here.

Are you proposing that because regulation of drugs allows so many bad
ones to slip into the marketplace where they are found to be harmful
and/or lethal, Or that because medical journal reviewers and publishers
 feel that drug research results are perverted by financial stakes the
investigators have in the products that we shouldn't have rx drugs?   I
didn't think so.

I have bought well researched supplements from a variety of suppliers
online and in stores for years, and I've obtained the benefits that good
studies indicated I would.  So have numerous others here.

There's no excuse for irrationally ranting that all supplements are
unproven crap.

Susan
RB - 14 Oct 2005 03:01 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
>Susan

Consumer Reports magazine did an article on various supplements a
couple of years ago.  As I recall their concern was that what the
label said was in the container was not always proven out by their
independent lab test.

They also had concerns about what supplements claimed to do without
any solid research.  

For the interested I am sure the full article can be had at your local
library or at Consumer Reports web site.

RB
Susan - 14 Oct 2005 15:26 GMT
> Consumer Reports magazine did an article on various supplements a
> couple of years ago.  As I recall their concern was that what the
> label said was in the container was not always proven out by their
> independent lab test.

If you're concerned about this, you can check out the supplement you're
considering, or others like it, at consumerlabs.com.

> They also had concerns about what supplements claimed to do without
> any solid research.  

So do I.  That's why I do a lot of Medline research before using any
supplement.  I do the same with prescribed meds, too, before I take them.

Susan
Thomas Muffaletto - 14 Oct 2005 16:25 GMT
Are You Taking More Meds Than You Need?
Taking too many medications can diminish rather than enhance your quality of
life.
By Roger P. Austin, MS, RPh, CDE

Do you take so many medications that you have trouble keeping track of them
all? If so, you're not alone. In fact, the problem is so common that it has
a scientific name: polypharmacy. (Poly means many; pharmacy means drugs.)

Taking many medications every day is particularly common when you have a
chronic disease like diabetes, because you are likely to be treating several
conditions at the same time. For instance, in addition to oral agents or
insulin for managing your diabetes, you might be taking something for high
blood pressure, cholesterol, heart disease, and perhaps even depression.

Add other common conditions, such as arthritis, glaucoma, asthma, or even
headaches, not to mention vitamins and minerals, and your medicine chest
could start looking like a small pharmacy.

While most medications are helpful, when you take many of them on a daily
basis, it's important that you become familiar with each of them and know
how to take them correctly. If not, you could be letting yourself in for
serious trouble.

For one thing, when you're taking many different pills, it's much easier to
take the wrong one. Being in a hurry, feeling tired, not wearing your
glasses, forgetting which pill you took earlier, confusing one pill-or one
pill container-for another all can cause you to do this.

Also, the medications you take can interact with each other. And the more
meds you take, the greater the chance that the interaction could be harmful.

Where Did All My Pills Come From?
Several factors can lead to polypharmacy.

You might have an internist or family physician for your general medical
care, an endocrinologist for your diabetes control, and a cardiologist for
your heart, all of whom prescribe different medications-perhaps more than
one. You may also be taking vitamins, minerals, and over-the-counter
medicines on your own.

Again, taking several medications is not unusual when you are treating
several conditions at the same time. But when one doctor prescribes a
medication-even for a cold or the flu-without knowing what other doctors
have prescribed and what over-the-counter products you are also taking,
problems can arise.

Age is another factor. It's no secret that, as we get older, we tend to
develop new medical conditions. Some may be related to diabetes and some may
simply be related to the aging process. But any or all of them could add
more medications to an already crowded medicine cabinet.

Then there are the growing number of direct-to-consumer drug advertisements.
We get hit with them every time we open a magazine, turn on the TV, or log
onto the Internet. Their exciting promises encourage us to add still more
pills to our regimen.

Although it doesn't happen often, it's also possible for a doctor to
misdiagnose your reaction to a drug. He or she may conclude that you have a
totally new condition, and prescribe yet another drug for the "new"
difficulty.

How Do I Avoid The Problem?
There are a number of things that you can do to reduce your risk of
polypharmacy.

First, prepare a complete list of all the medications you are taking.
Include over-the-counter as well as prescription medicines, even those you
take only occasionally. Don't forget vitamin or mineral supplements, herbal
products, external medical ointments, and food supplements.

Next to the name of each medication, add the strength (for example, ounces
or milligrams), dosage form (such as capsule or liquid), directions for use
(for example, "take with food" or "take before bed"), and the reason you are
taking the medication (such as high blood pressure, kidney disease, or heart
disease).

Also include the date you started taking each medication and the name of the
doctor who prescribed it.

Talking To Your Doctor
Make sure each doctor you see regularly, especially any who prescribe
medications for you, has an up-to-date list of all your meds. If not, hand
one to him or her and ask that it be kept in your file.

Also ask to review your pill regimen together so you understand why you are
taking each medication.

Remind your doctor how long you have been taking each medication. Some
diabetes drugs, for example, may no longer be working as well for you today
as they did when you started taking them. Or, perhaps a newer, more
effective drug is now available.

Also, if your doctor wants you to start taking another medication, ask if
there is any other you might be able to discontinue.

Be sure to tell your doctor if you forget to take your medicines and how
often this may happen in the course of a week. Also, tell your doctor if
your medication schedule is difficult to follow. In some cases, he or she
might be able to switch you to a combination medication, which would reduce
the number of pills you take, or to a drug that could be taken once a day
instead of several times a day.

Certainly tell your doctor if you seem to have any side effects from a
medication.

Mention any lifestyle changes you've made recently, especially regarding
eating patterns or physical activities. They may also affect the medications
or doses you take.

Taking the time to understand your drug therapy will help you and your
doctor make sure you stay in the best of health.

Roger P. Austin, MS, RPh, CDE, is a clinical pharmacist with the Henry Ford
Health System in Sterling Heights, Mich.

Participate In Your Medication Decisions
 a.. Keep an updated list of all your prescription and non-prescription
medications. Take the list (or the medications) to every doctor's
appointment.
 b.. Review your medications list with each new doctor you visit.
 c.. Ask your doctor why he or she is adding, dropping, or changing a
medication or dose.
 d.. Remind the doctor of other medications you are also taking.
 e.. Tell your doctor about any changes in your lifestyle, especially
regarding your eating patterns or exercise regimen.
 f.. Discuss the possibility of using a generic form of a drug, especially
if the name brand is expensive. (Even if your insurance covers the cost,
everyone who contributes to the insurance ultimately pays for the drugs.)
 g.. Have your prescriptions filled at the same pharmacy each time.
 h.. Get to know your pharmacist and ask him or her questions about your
medicines.
 If You Are Using Insulin
 a.. Ask your certified diabetes educator to review your injection
technique from time to time.
 b.. Show him or her how you prepare your insulin, measure your doses, and
rotate your injection sites.
 c.. Tell the educator when, and how much, you inject in relation to meals.
 d.. Make sure that you understand completely how the insulin you are using
works in your body. How quickly does it peak? How long does it work? How
does it affect your blood glucose levels if you skip meals or sleep in on
weekends and get off your dosing schedule?
Signature

Tom
Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow

Information you can trust from the diabetes experts...
Your American Diabetes Association
http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp
the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards
http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index
Pictures of My motorcycle and I think 2 of my doggies.
http://www.adventurseofvtx1300c.com.50megs.com/photo.html

> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Susan
Priscilla H. Ballou - 14 Oct 2005 18:03 GMT
> >x-no-archive: yes
> >
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> label said was in the container was not always proven out by their
> independent lab test.

Yes, and that bears out Susan's point about researching before choosing.

> They also had concerns about what supplements claimed to do without
> any solid research.  
>
> For the interested I am sure the full article can be had at your local
> library or at Consumer Reports web site.

Priscilla
ted rosenerg - 14 Oct 2005 03:31 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
> Susan
bullcrap

Just because you are a patsy doesn't mean everyone id

Unfortunately enough people are as stupid as you are to keep the
"supplement" industry fat and happy

!) A "supplement" scammer often pits a phony lab report on their bottle
- after all, they are unregulated - and LOTS of people are dumb enough
to actually believe them
Second: All of the "studies:" you talk about are worthless.  Anyone
whois had REAL studies would get a USP label, and actually be subject to
regulation - it is not that hard CELERY is subject to regulation,
bottled WATER is subject to regulation

only "supplements: aren't

Then there is the typical garbage about the harmful drugs,  SURE we find
harmful drugs 0 THEY have follow-up studies and regulation.  When
supliscams like Ephedra and bitter orange kill people, no one reports it
at all, and the supliscammers who do find out don't ever report it.
BJ in Texas - 13 Oct 2005 13:09 GMT
|| x-no-archive: yes
||
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
||
|| Susan

Reading = Problem

Signature

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in
overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas Edison

Julie Bove - 12 Oct 2005 08:07 GMT
> I have been reading that some nutritional supplements such as Bitter Melon,
> Chromium, Zinc, and so on are good for bringing down glucose numbers.  I am
> thinking of trying Bitter Melon. Has any one else had success with
> supplements? I am open to suggestions and advice. Thank you.

Bitter Melon works for me, but it is not something I would take on an every
day basis.  After reading about it, I am not convinced that it is safe to
take.  I only take it when I have high numbers for no apparent reason and I
can't get them down any other way.

Signature

See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm

Susan Adair - 12 Oct 2005 15:05 GMT
I'm taking Ocuvite with lutine every morning at the behest of my eye
doctor.  There's quite a bit of zinc in there; something like 200
percent of the standard recommended dose.  My ENT dr. likes it too, as
a possibilty to help restore some of my sense of smell that I lost in a
head injury.  I don't know that it has done anything for my bg levels;
I take the tablet every morning when I eat breakfast.  I'm currently
settled on about 1/2 cup yogurt, 3 teaspoons of flax meal and about 1/4
cup of various fruits.  Right now it is strawberries.  I'm getting
fairly decent levels - usually about 130 at one hour, but yesterday I
got 157 for no reason I can determine.  My fasting level was 103, so
who knows what happened.  I have no experience with other supplements.
I'm still experimenting with food, and trying to figure out if I need
to push my dr for metaformin and/or an endo.

Susan Adair
Ma¢k - 13 Oct 2005 01:57 GMT
On 12 Oct 2005 07:05:53 -0700, "Susan Adair"
<arethusarose@earthlink.net> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>I'm taking Ocuvite with lutine every morning at the behest of my eye
>doctor.  There's quite a bit of zinc in there; something like 200
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Susan Adair

you are eating yogurt AND strawberries and getting the 157?  Check the
contents of the yogurt.  Strawberries are probably one of the most BG
friendly fruits available.

Signature

Mâck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Susan Adair - 13 Oct 2005 15:14 GMT
Mack,
I'm puzzled by the 157 myself, because the very same breakfast was
giving me readings around or below 130 for several days.  It may be a
meter glitch, or I may have had some hand lotion on my finger that I
failed to wash off,   I the bg did seem to go down slowly,  my 2-hr
reading was 124, and it is usually lower.  I'm calling it an
unexplained outlier.  Yesterday the same stuff, from the same yogurt
container, gave me 111 at 1 hour.

Susan Adair
Gary Woods - 13 Oct 2005 15:26 GMT
>I'm puzzled by the 157 myself, because the very same breakfast was
>giving me readings around or below 130 for several days.  It may be a
>meter glitch, or I may have had some hand lotion on my finger that I
>failed to wash off,

If I get a reading that doesn't make sense I immediately wash my hands
thoroughly, dry, and take another.  It's often much lower.

Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
Ma¢k - 13 Oct 2005 21:07 GMT
On 13 Oct 2005 07:14:06 -0700, "Susan Adair"
<arethusarose@earthlink.net> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>Mack,
>I'm puzzled by the 157 myself, because the very same breakfast was
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Susan Adair

you are type 2 right?  don't you just love insulin resistance and how
it is never the same from day to day let alone from morning to
afternoon to evening in the same day?  As for the lotion on the hands,
many of make mistakes like that when testing.  It's easy to slip up
and forget.  You tested before even preparing the meal right?

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Susan Adair - 14 Oct 2005 01:41 GMT
Yes, I testing the fasting reading  after getting out of bed and
washing my hands.  Then I got dressed and assembled the yogurt
concoction and ate it.  My 1 and 2 hour tests took place at work, at my
desk.  Who knows what I touched, or did not clear from my hands.
Insulin resistance certainly works in mysterious ways.  I have worked
out some basic meals that I can count on for decent readings, but I can
still be surprised by what happens with foods as yet untested.  Fruits
are odd; I can eat a peach with my lunch, but not a nectarine.  I
generally rely on apples during the winter, but I suspect they may give
me readings too high for my standards.  I usually avoid oranges because
of the juicy mess, but a look at a carb count book makes me think I
might do better with them than with apples.  

Susan Adair
None Given - 12 Oct 2005 21:12 GMT
> I have been reading that some nutritional supplements such as Bitter Melon,
> Chromium, Zinc, and so on are good for bringing down glucose numbers.  I am
> thinking of trying Bitter Melon. Has any one else had success with
> supplements? I am open to suggestions and advice. Thank you.

Chromium and magnesium would be good, IF you are deficient in those
minerals.  ALA may help some.  Don't expect miracles and only use bitter
melon if you have a good recipe to cook it with, there is no telling what's
really in the supplement.

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Ricavito - 13 Oct 2005 02:07 GMT
> I have been reading that some nutritional supplements such as Bitter Melon,
> Chromium, Zinc, and so on are good for bringing down glucose numbers.  I am
> thinking of trying Bitter Melon. Has any one else had success with
> supplements? I am open to suggestions and advice. Thank you.

Hi Mikael,

There has been some discussion of bitter melon in this newsgroup in the
past.  If you know how to search this group, I'm sure you will find
some info.  I don't know how to refer to the past posts or I would
point you to them, but I know they are there.

I have no experience in how bitter melon might work, but I believe it
has a long history in Asian cuisine.  We tried to order it once at a
Thai restaurant in Hawaii, but the waiter adamantly refused to place
hte order, convinced we would not like it.  There was a bit of a
language barrier, but he said that it was only used to "cleanse the
body."  I guess we looked pretty cleaned up already!

Best wishes,

Ricavito
BJ in Texas - 13 Oct 2005 13:12 GMT
|| We tried to order it
|| once at a
|| Thai restaurant in Hawaii, but the waiter adamantly refused
|| to place
|| hte order, convinced we would not like it.

Probably true, not many eat it for the flavor, the name is
not a misnomer

|| There was a bit of a
|| language barrier, but he said that it was only used to
|| "cleanse the
|| body."  I guess we looked pretty cleaned up already!

ROTFL

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"If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop
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