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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / October 2005Starlix questions....
Two months ago, I mentioned an interest (I wanted to discuss it for future use) in Starlix (Nateglinide, a drug that is taken before a meal to boost insulin production) to my Doctor. She basically said "Sure" and wrote me a prescription. The problem is, I got sidetracked before asking exactly how I should use it! I chose Starlix for several reasons. because it's supposedly a "smart drug" and works in proportion to blood glucose levels. There are even reports of it restoring phase1 response (or, IMHO, it might be mimicking them rather them by acting similarly to GLP-1 rather than restoring them) . This is something I wanted for occasional use only, perhaps once a month (I did mention this to my Doc), to be able to eat a more normal meal on a special occasion. I know of the risks of beta cell burnout if overstimulated long term, but my hunch was that for very occasional use, the risks are minimal. A week ago, I decided to give it a try, thinking the pharmacist could answer my questions. So, I got the script filled at Walmart, and the Pharmacist "consulted" with me after asking if I'd ever taken it before (my answer was no). He told me "Take this 30 minutes before a meal. It's to absorb some of the fat in your meal.". My jaw literally dropped. I politely told him "No, it is not. It's a Phenalanaline derivative. It stimulates the Beta cells of the pancreas to produce more insulin to prevent a blood glucose spike after a meal". He half-heartedly shrugged, and said "Oh, I must have been thinking of something else". He looked as if he couldn't care less, and ambled off without another word. I was shocked. Needless to say, I didn't bother to ask him for advice on how to use it! I'm aware of the possible side effects (mainly hypos, but rare), and not to take it if I'm not eating. But, I haven't got a clue how to actually use it. I've been searching online and I'm finding that the recommended time to take it before a meal varies from 30 minutes to immediately prior to the meal. (30 is what is in it's insert). The official website just says "shortly before a meal". So, I don't know when to take it. The instructions on the bottle say 30 minutes, but they also say 3 times a day (which I have no intention of doing!) It's 120mg, BTW. I also don't know how to take it! Specifically, how many carbs can or should I have with this? I've searched high and low and found nothing specific. Any advice? <snip> > I'm aware of the possible side effects (mainly hypos, but rare), and > not to take it if I'm not eating. But, I haven't got a clue how to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Any advice? AKAIK, this is not something for occasional use. You take it three times a day, 1-30 minutes prior to each meal. I took it for a few years, but then it stopped working for me. Didn't do a thing. The drug didn't allow me to eat any more carbs. I began taking it after sustained high BG due to a sinus infection. I was on no diabetes meds at all at the time. I had taken Glucotrol, Amaryl and Metformin prior to that. Not all at once mind you, but I tried each one in that order. I had terrible hypos on each of them. Now I should add that I have or had a thyroid disorder and that complicates things. I took the Starlix before each meal, but it didn't seem to do a thing for me. I then moved to another state where the Dr. started me on Metformin XR. He hoped that the XR would prevent hypos. Eventually the Endo. I was seeing put me on the plain Metformin and that worked better for me. I moved again, and my BG went up. The new Endo. stopped the Starlix because it seemed not to do a thing for me. He did test me and I produce a ton of insulin. My body just doesn't use it properly. I am now on the max. dose of Metformin and am also taking Amaryl. I think I might be on the max dose of that as well. How many carbs can you eat while taking Starlix? Probably the same amount you're eating now. Unless you are having hypos now, and then perhaps you could up the carbs a bit more. As I said, it didn't seem to help me at all.  SignatureSee my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm >AKAIK, this is not something for occasional use. You take it three times a >day, My Doc knew I wanted it for occasional use, and the literature sees to indicate it can be used that way, but I may be mistaken. >1-30 minutes prior to each meal. This is a big area of confusion for me; is there a specific time, of does this mean anywhere between 1 and 30 is ok? If it's that variable, it would be a lot more convenient! In a restaurant, it's hard to know exactly when the food will arrive. > I took it for a few years, but then >it stopped working for me. Didn't do a thing. The drug didn't allow me to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Now I should add that I have or had a thyroid disorder and that complicates >things. It could well be the thyroid, or just a case of YMMV, but I'm sorry to hear it stopped working for you. >I took the Starlix before each meal, but it didn't seem to do a thing for >me. I then moved to another state where the Dr. started me on Metformin XR. >He hoped that the XR would prevent hypos. Eventually the Endo. I was seeing >put me on the plain Metformin and that worked better for me. I moved again, >and my BG went up. The new Endo. stopped the Starlix because it seemed not >to do a thing for me. He did test me and I produce a ton of insulin. I'm having a C-peptide done with my upcoming blood test. I've never had one so I have no clue what my insulin production is. >How many carbs can you eat while taking Starlix? Probably the same amount >you're eating now. Which raises yet another issue: I don't know that, either. I can eat about 20 (lunch or dinner) of foods that don't spike me, and stay below 120. I haven't pushed it beyond that, carb-wise, since a couple of accidental large amounts in the early stages of my treatment. The worst was just over 60 carbs that shot my Bg from around 110 up to 163, two weeks after I got out of the hospital and less than a week after I'd gotten my BG levels stabilized. > Unless you are having hypos now No hypos. I am on just Metformin, and so far I've only had a couple of false hypos, when I first got my Bg's stabilized. > This is a big area of confusion for me; is there a specific time, of > does this mean anywhere between 1 and 30 is ok? If it's that variable, > it would be a lot more convenient! In a restaurant, it's hard to know > exactly when the food will arrive. It occurs to me that when you need to take it might depend on how fast the carb in the meal is. > Which raises yet another issue: I don't know that, either. I can eat > about 20 (lunch or dinner) of foods that don't spike me, and stay [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 163, two weeks after I got out of the hospital and less than a week > after I'd gotten my BG levels stabilized. Maybe you want to just try it out and see what happens. Choose something you like and know the ~carb count on and test to see how it works. SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes >> This is a big area of confusion for me; is there a specific time, of >> does this mean anywhere between 1 and 30 is ok? If it's that variable, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >It occurs to me that when you need to take it might depend on how fast the >carb in the meal is. Hmmmm.. That's a good point! My tastes run to low glycemic carbs anyway (whole grains, etc.), so that would mean right before eating, which would be perfect. >> Which raises yet another issue: I don't know that, either. I can eat >> about 20 (lunch or dinner) of foods that don't spike me, and stay [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Maybe you want to just try it out and see what happens. Ready for a good laugh? I never thought of that!!! I guess I have a bit of "engineer's disease". :-) >Choose something >you like and know the ~carb count on and test to see how it works. What I've decided to do first (unless someone shows it to be a bad idea?) is find out what my carb limits are without it, so I'll know if it works when i do take it. I'm going to try a few tests with carby items with dinner and gradually increase them until I get 1 hour PP's around 140. [snippage; inserted one word below to retain context] > I began taking [STARLIX] it after sustained high BG due to a > sinus infection. I was on no diabetes meds at all at the time. I had taken > Glucotrol, Amaryl and Metformin prior to that. Not all at once mind you, > but I tried each one in that order. I had terrible hypos on each of them. > Now I should add that I have or had a thyroid disorder and that complicates > things. Julie -- You said that Metformin caused Hypos? At DX, my doc put me on Metformin because, he said, that it was the least intrusive medication, and it *didn't* cause Hypos. ??? mt > Julie -- You said that Metformin caused Hypos? At DX, my doc put me on > Metformin because, he said, that it was the least intrusive medication, > and it *didn't* cause Hypos. ??? It's much less likely to cause hypos because it doesn't stimulate insulin production, but the primary effect is on the liver, it interferes with the liver dump. I'm on the max dose and I can still shoot up ~40-50 mg/dl. I don't know how big the jump would be without the drug. SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes > Julie -- You said that Metformin caused Hypos? At DX, my doc put me on > Metformin because, he said, that it was the least intrusive medication, > and it *didn't* cause Hypos. ??? > > mt As a rule, metformin is not associated with hypos. That doesn't mean that it, or that it in combination with other factors hasn't caused some folks to experience hypos on it. I often take it without eating for several hours, and I've never had a hypo on it. Susan > [snippage; inserted one word below to retain context] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Metformin because, he said, that it was the least intrusive medication, > and it *didn't* cause Hypos. ??? I didn't say that the meds caused hypos. As I said, I have/had a thyroid problem. Currently I am not on thyroid meds and my thyroid seems to be fine. But during the time when I was having the terrible hypos, my lousy Endo. was overdosing me on thyroid meds in the hopes that I'd lose more weight. I had no idea he was doing this. He refused to allow me to see my labs, telling me everything was fine. But everything was NOT fine! Only after my GP discovered that I was running very hyperthyroid and then I developed a rapid heartbeat did he panic and cut back my dose. I was having hypos on no meds at all. Now I rarely every have hypos. But I do still have occasional ones. I also had reactive hypoglycemia prior to the diabetes. My brother (also type 2) has never had a hypo. I think some of us are just more prone to them than others. Any diabetic whether they are on meds or not needs to know what a hypo is and how to treat it. You might be one of the lucky ones who never has a hypo. But it *can* happen and you need to know what to do if it does. SignatureSee my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm I have been taking Starlix for over 2 years. It does work as "smart drug" for me, that is it does not cause hypos even if I eat a light meal. Without it I could only eat about 10 carbs with a spike to 140. With the Starlix I can eat up to 40 carbs at a meal. Lately I have gotten worse, the Starlix it still sufficient for Breakfast and Lunch but for Dinner it does not allow me to eat the about of carbs I would like to. I not use Novolog for dinner only, this is working fine. Anon > Two months ago, I mentioned an interest (I wanted to discuss it for > future use) in Starlix (Nateglinide, a drug that is taken before a [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Any advice? >I have been taking Starlix for over 2 years. It does work as "smart drug" >for me, that is it does not cause hypos even if I eat a light meal. Without >it I could only eat about 10 carbs with a spike to 140. With the Starlix I >can eat up to 40 carbs at a meal. Thanks.. I suppose that it would help if I knew what my carb tolerance was without it before trying it. Perhaps that should be my first step. If it's not wheat based (which seems to spike me) I seem to be able to eat up to 20 and stay under 120. I haven't pushed it beyond that carb-wise since early in my treatment (second week) when I accidently ate something with lots of carbs (over 60) that shot me sky-high. Anyone know if carb tolerance is linear? In other words, if 10 carbs of a given food raise my BG 10, would 20 usually raise it by 20, or is it a variable ratio? >Lately I have gotten worse, the Starlix it still sufficient for Breakfast >and Lunch but for Dinner it does not allow me to eat the about of carbs I >would like to. I not use Novolog for dinner only, this is working fine. Sorry to hear you have gotten worse. Novolog or similar fast insulin was another option for me. I'm still considering it, but it has a few drawbacks for me. One is that it's a bit expensive, given it's shelf life, for something I'd use about once a month. The second is that it is less convenient to carry around due to kit bulk. A pen might be a better option for me. I've only ever taken insulin via a syringe, but I have no problem with that. If the Starlix will work, it is preferable to the Novolog. I have never got a hypo from Starlix, I have came close to hypo several times with Novolog. I found that if I take the Starlix immediate before eating, it works better for me. When I took it 10 minutes before eating it didn't work as well. Anon >>I have been taking Starlix for over 2 years. It does work as "smart drug" >>for me, that is it does not cause hypos even if I eat a light meal. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > to kit bulk. A pen might be a better option for me. I've only ever > taken insulin via a syringe, but I have no problem with that. Chris J. wrote in message ... >. . .(snip). . . > >Anyone know if carb tolerance is linear? In other words, if 10 carbs >of a given food raise my BG 10, would 20 usually raise it by 20, or is >it a variable ratio? My take: No, I don't think it's linear. The effect you are thinking of is not even linear for us T1 who don't have a self-regulating system sputtering along in the background. In general, the "raw" bG rise is proportional to the amount of carb in the meal. It's about 5 mg/dL per gram carb for a 150 lb.. person and about 3 mg/dL per gram carb for a 200 lb.. person. (There are different estimates out there, it could be 5-10% less) However, that's "raw" rise. For a T2, there are at least three other factors: a. You have a self-regulating system pumping in insulin in response to the rise in bG. You have no idea of how much insulin is being made. You also have a fast carb v. slow carb question. The fast carb meal overwhelms your sputtering beta cells; the slow carb meal gives them a fighting chance to reduce the bG spike. b. As your bG rises, you can see instant Glucose Toxicity in which each unit of insulin introduced into your blood becomes less effective in fighting high bG. This is a real effect in my control scheme; my estimate is that, in me, a unit of insulin loses at least half its power at bG much above 200 mg/dL c. Eating prompts a glucagon release which itself prompts the liver to release extra glucose (just what a diabetic needs, whoopee!). Symlin and Byetta gain much of their power by stopping that glucagon release. So, bottom line, your response would be: rise = linear raw rise - non-linear effect (a) + non-linear effect(b) + non-linear effect(c) FWIW, the doc who gives the best lectures at our Diabetic Support Group meetings is himself T2. He uses a Novolog pen to accomplish the effect you are gaining with Starlix. He carries it around all day but only uses it if he encounters a carb-rich occasion. Easy, flexible, and protects his betas but as "Anon" explains, the expensive solution. Regards Old Al >Chris J. wrote in message ... >>. . .(snip). . . [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >In general, the "raw" bG rise is proportional to the amount of carb in the >meal. > It's about 5 mg/dL per gram carb for a 150 lb.. person and about 3 >mg/dL per gram carb for a 200 lb.. person. (There are different estimates >out there, it could be 5-10% less) Hmmm... My average, which I worked out not too long after Dx (and could still have been unstable) was about 1 BG per gram for moderately fast carbs. I based this on two instances of accidentally having some. I have no clue what it is now, though. >However, that's "raw" rise. For a T2, there are at least three other >factors: > a. You have a self-regulating system pumping in insulin in response to >the rise in bG. You have no idea of how much insulin is being made. You >also have a fast carb v. slow carb question. The fast carb meal >overwhelms your sputtering beta cells; the slow carb meal gives them a >fighting chance to reduce the bG spike. This will certainly complicate the equation! > b. As your bG rises, you can see instant Glucose Toxicity in which >each unit of insulin introduced into your blood becomes less effective in >fighting high bG. This is a real effect in my control scheme; my >estimate is that, in me, a unit of insulin loses at least half its power >at bG much above 200 mg/dL That sounds quite reasonable.. > c. Eating prompts a glucagon release which itself prompts the liver to >release extra glucose (just what a diabetic needs, whoopee!). Symlin and >Byetta gain much of their power by stopping that glucagon release. >So, bottom line, your response would be: > > rise = linear raw rise - non-linear effect (a) + non-linear effect(b) + >non-linear effect(c) THANK YOU! But, this is going to be very tricky, as determining a value for a and c will be problematic, and that's assuming b is not a factor for me. >FWIW, the doc who gives the best lectures at our Diabetic Support Group >meetings is himself T2. He uses a Novolog pen to accomplish the effect you >are gaining with Starlix. He carries it around all day but only uses it >if he encounters a carb-rich occasion. Easy, flexible, and protects his >betas but as "Anon" explains, the expensive solution. I will definitely give that a try if the Starlix does not work. Provided, that is, I can talk my Doc into it. > Two months ago, I mentioned an interest (I wanted to discuss it for > future use) in Starlix (Nateglinide, a drug that is taken before a > meal to boost insulin production) to my Doctor. She basically said > "Sure" and wrote me a prescription. <snip> > Any advice? I tried Starlix--once. I saw no significant change in my blood sugar after a carby meal, but I felt like utter crap. Reading the prescribing information revealed that "flu-like symptoms" is a side effect. End of experiment. What I'd advise you do any time you get a prescription is google up the "Prescribing Information" for the drug. Read it carefully. It will tell you how to use it and what the known side effects might be. I am astounded at how often I've been prescribed a drug by a doctor where I've been given the wrong dose or not warned about important drug interactions, foods that can interfere with the drug's metabolism, or the likelihood of serious side effects. Getting into the habit of reading the Prescribing Information online may save you from some serious problems. --Jenny http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/ Type 2 Diabetes info http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Low Carb info >> Two months ago, I mentioned an interest (I wanted to discuss it for >> future use) in Starlix (Nateglinide, a drug that is taken before a [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > http://www.geocities.com/lottadata4u/ Type 2 Diabetes info http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean/ Low Carb info I have a prescription for Starlix, -three times a day, but almost always I just take it before dinner. Breakfast and lunch are too small, and I get hypo. In fact after having lost 40 lbs, I get hypo even after dinner unless we have pasta. I am trying to find out if you can take half a Starlix I have always felt Starlix was "as needed" , like Lasix with prescription instructions" as needed" . Kay When I first started taking Starlix, the doctor advised me to take 60mg for smaller meals and 120mg for larger (regular) meals. Starlix comes in 60mg and 120mg tabs. Since I didn't want 2 different Rx's, he checked and said it would be ok to cut the 120mg tabs in half. Anon > I have a prescription for Starlix, -three times a day, but almost always I > just take it before dinner. Breakfast and lunch are too small, and I get > hypo. In fact after having lost 40 lbs, I get hypo even after dinner > unless we have pasta. I am trying to find out if you can take half a > Starlix I have always felt Starlix was "as needed" , like Lasix with > prescription instructions" as needed" . Kay >I have a prescription for Starlix, -three times a day, but almost always I >just take it before dinner. Breakfast and lunch are too small, and I get >hypo. In fact after having lost 40 lbs, I get hypo even after dinner >unless we have pasta. I am trying to find out if you can take half a >Starlix I have always felt Starlix was "as needed" , like Lasix with >prescription instructions" as needed" . Kay I think you can take half a starlix, as it's not time-release and does come in both 120 mg and 60mg sizes. >I tried Starlix--once. I saw no significant change in my blood sugar >after a carby meal, but I felt like utter crap. Reading the prescribing >information revealed that "flu-like symptoms" is a side effect. End of >experiment. Sorry to hear that... I'd do the same if I had similar symptoms. >What I'd advise you do any time you get a prescription is google up the >"Prescribing Information" for the drug. Read it carefully. It will tell >you how to use it and what the known side effects might be. I did that before posting, and the URL is here http://www.pharma.us.novartis.com/product/pi/pdf/Starlix.pdf The first thing I do before taking anything is look up side effects, etc. Unfortunately, it didn't answer my questions, hence my post. The prescribing information is where I found the list of side possible effects, but is says "Starlix should be taken 1 to 30 minutes before a meal", so I had no idea when, exactly, to take it. >I am astounded at how often I've been prescribed a drug by a doctor >where I've been given the wrong dose or not warned about important drug >interactions, foods that can interfere with the drug's metabolism, or >the likelihood of serious side effects. Getting into the habit of >reading the Prescribing Information online may save you from some >serious problems. This is excellent advice, and personally I extend it to friends and family as well, ESPECIALLY elderly ones. : Two months ago, I mentioned an interest (I wanted to discuss it for : future use) in Starlix (Nateglinide, a drug that is taken before a : meal to boost insulin production) to my Doctor. She basically said : "Sure" and wrote me a prescription. : The problem is, I got sidetracked before asking exactly how I should : use it! : I chose Starlix for several reasons. because it's supposedly a "smart : drug" and works in proportion to blood glucose levels. There are even : reports of it restoring phase1 response (or, IMHO, it might be : mimicking them rather them by acting similarly to GLP-1 rather than : restoring them) . : This is something I wanted for occasional use only, perhaps once a : month (I did mention this to my Doc), to be able to eat a more normal : meal on a special occasion. : I know of the risks of beta cell burnout if overstimulated long term, : but my hunch was that for very occasional use, the risks are minimal. : A week ago, I decided to give it a try, thinking the pharmacist could : answer my questions. So, I got the script filled at Walmart, and the : Pharmacist "consulted" with me after asking if I'd ever taken it : before (my answer was no). : He told me "Take this 30 minutes before a meal. It's to absorb some of : the fat in your meal.". My jaw literally dropped. I politely told him : "No, it is not. It's a Phenalanaline derivative. It stimulates the : Beta cells of the pancreas to produce more insulin to prevent a blood : glucose spike after a meal". : He half-heartedly shrugged, and said "Oh, I must have been thinking of : something else". He looked as if he couldn't care less, and ambled off : without another word. I was shocked. Needless to say, I didn't bother : to ask him for advice on how to use it! : I'm aware of the possible side effects (mainly hypos, but rare), and : not to take it if I'm not eating. But, I haven't got a clue how to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : they also say 3 times a day (which I have no intention of doing!) It's : 120mg, BTW. : I also don't know how to take it! Specifically, how many carbs can or : should I have with this? I've searched high and low and found nothing : specific. : Any advice? Chris, I use starlix in very much the way you want to. I have the prescription but use it rarely. I am not quite so careful to be able to say about how many carbs more I can eat, but it wroks when I eat out and heve a roblem knowing all the carbs in a meal and I do use it when I know I will be havign a bigger meal with more carbs than usual. I take is with my other befroe meal meds or, if eating in a restaurant and I take my regular meds at home, I don;t chance takign the Starlix then as I canaa't be sure when I ill actrually eat-gettting to restaurant, looking at menu, ordering and waiting for food. If the wait inthe restaurant is long, I will eat a half a roll or soem crackers to ensure that there are some carbs for the starlix to work on. I think yu wll have to find out just what you can eat with this pill. Make sure, if you take it and then order a low carb meat that you eat a roll or something so you don't get a low. I have had that experience. Eating out and them getting the low-. Again there is a lot of YMMV to this. I don;'t know exactly how many carbs you usually eat at a meal. I woudl say add 15-30 extra grams for the Starlix, not 60!! You still have to eat in moderation, just a bit more than usual. If you have wine with your meal, be careful ad the double whammy of the delay of carb absorbtin and the Starlix can produce a low if you don't eat enough carbs. Again, I use rolls as the "emergsncy" food to prevent a possible low if I et too carefully. I don't think I could eat a bowl of pasta with this drug, even with the wine, but I can eat a small portin of otatoes or rice along with sme fruit and/or a roll at a restaurant meal. The other night my hsband and I split a Roumanian Steak dinner(skirt steak) and, as I had takem a Starlix, I ate almost sll of my half of the baked potato, along with the stemed mixed non-carby vegetables and a cup of gaspacho soup. I was fine at1 1/2-2 hours, beign well under 120 and wsa able to have a small snack later. I probably couls have eaten some roll, but we had not asked them to serve the bread, as it is sometimes very hard to resist for me and my husband is not a bread eater unless it is a good seeded rye or pumpernickel. Wendy-as usual-too worky! >Chris, >I use starlix in very much the way you want to. I think it was your suggestion that got me looking into it, so a belated thank you! >I have the prescription >but use it rarely. I am not quite so careful to be able to say about how [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >a roll or soem crackers to ensure that there are some carbs for the >starlix to work on. That is basically what I want to be able to do. I don't have a sweet tooth, so I'm sure not going to be eating ice cream or pastry deserts but I would like to have some extra carbs, such as having soup or salad dressing and not worrying if it might contain sugar, or some Mexican food with a corn tortilla in it, etc. >I think yu wll have to find out just what you can eat with this pill. My current plan (subject to change if anyone thinks it's a bad idea) is to try a few experiments and see what I can eat without it. Otherwise, I won't even know if it's working. I'm thinking of testing with gradually increasing carbs until I get around 140 at 1 hour PP. >Make sure, if you take it and then order a low carb meat that you eat a >roll or something so you don't get a low. I have had that experience. >Eating out and them getting the low-. Again there is a lot of YMMV to >this. I don;'t know exactly how many carbs you usually eat at a meal. A Maximum of 20 for dinner, but usually less. >If you have wine with your meal, be careful ad the double whammy of the >delay of carb absorbtin and the Starlix can produce a low if you don't eat >enough carbs. Again, I use rolls as the "emergsncy" food to prevent a >possible low if I et too carefully. I don't think I could eat a bowl of >pasta with this drug, even with the wine, What about a small amount of Pasta along with the meal? >but I can eat a small portin of >otatoes or rice along with sme fruit and/or a roll at a restaurant meal. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Wendy-as usual-too worky! Thanks, Wendy. They type of meal you describe is what I'm hoping for. Basically, just a bit more freedom on rare occasions. > My current plan (subject to change if anyone thinks it's a bad idea) > is to try a few experiments and see what I can eat without it. > Otherwise, I won't even know if it's working. I'm thinking of testing > with gradually increasing carbs until I get around 140 at 1 hour PP. Do let us know how it goes, if you decide to go ahead with it! Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/74/72Kg >> My current plan (subject to change if anyone thinks it's a bad idea) >> is to try a few experiments and see what I can eat without it. >> Otherwise, I won't even know if it's working. I'm thinking of testing >> with gradually increasing carbs until I get around 140 at 1 hour PP. > >Do let us know how it goes, if you decide to go ahead with it! Will do! I'm going to try another slice of that bread tonight, and test thoroughly! (and remember to wash my hands!) :-) : >Chris, : >I use starlix in very much the way you want to. : I think it was your suggestion that got me looking into it, so a : belated thank you! YOu are welcome. : >I think yu wll have to find out just what you can eat with this pill. : >If you have wine with your meal, be careful ad the double whammy of the : >delay of carb absorbtin and the Starlix can produce a low if you don't eat : >enough carbs. Again, I use rolls as the "emergsncy" food to prevent a : >possible low if I et too carefully. I don't think I could eat a bowl of : >pasta with this drug, even with the wine, : What about a small amount of Pasta along with the meal? It sould be fine. I use the Starlix whdn I eat Chinese food and can have both the hot an sour soup and a small amount of brown rice with my meal that includes dishes prepared with no cornstarch or sugar(per my request) and that don't have bready coated fried stuff. By the way , I tried an eggroll the other day and boy did it spike me! 185 at 1 hour and I was very loggy and tired all afterneen. Nover again. I had not taked a Starlix with that test, but woudl hesitate to try it even with the strlix. THE moral is "don't break you r own tried adn true rules:-)" : >Wendy-as usual-too worky! : Thanks, Wendy. They type of meal you describe is what I'm hoping for. : Basically, just a bit more freedom on rare occasions. Exactly! When you do try it, let us know how it works out. Wendy >It sould be fine. I use the Starlix whdn I eat Chinese food and can have >both the hot an sour soup and a small amount of brown rice with my meal [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Starlix with that test, but woudl hesitate to try it even with the strlix. >THE moral is "don't break you r own tried adn true rules:-)" Well, my idea of seeing how many carbs I can eat without the Starlix is a bit of a failure. I wanted to see what it would take to push me to around 140. I tried adding a slice of a rich german bread (about 30 carbs, making 40 for the meal.) to my dinner. That got me to about 120 the first day (right after my false read of 200). I tried it again yesterday, but with a slice and a half (making 55 carbs for the meal). Testing every 20 minutes in case I had a sudden peak, I found my peak was at 112!! I tested a couple of times with a second meter to be sure, but it was close. This makes NO sense to me. The rest of the meal was identical, as was my prior food consumption for the day. The bread, to my surprise, has molasses in it (The ingredients are in german which I don't speak, and only translated today) so it's not even low GI as I had thought. The effects I did see were that eating that many carbs made me want to snack later, and my Bg took longer (half an hour longer) to drop back to normal between-meal levels (compared to a low-carb meal). I really don't want to abuse my system and de-rail my diet by trying even more of that bread, so I'm undecided as to what to do next. Probably try it with a different carb source in a few days, or maybe try it at breakfast when I'm more carb sensitive. >When you do try it, let us know how it works out. I will, but I think I need to solve the puzzle of how many carbs i can eat without it first, otherwise I won't even know if it works. > The bread, to my surprise, has molasses in it (The ingredients are in > german which I don't speak, and only translated today) so it's not > even low GI as I had thought. Bet it is, even so - what are the ingredients? Rye flour will still give it a comparatively low GI, even with molasses. German ingredients are listed in order of volume/weight. Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/74/72Kg Pumpernickel bread is often (usually?) made with molasses as the "sugar". bj >> The bread, to my surprise, has molasses in it (The ingredients are in >> german which I don't speak, and only translated today) so it's not [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it a comparatively low GI, even with molasses. German ingredients are > listed in order of volume/weight. >> The bread, to my surprise, has molasses in it (The ingredients are in >> german which I don't speak, and only translated today) so it's not >> even low GI as I had thought. > >Bet it is, even so - what are the ingredients? It's called Leinsamenbrot, roggenvollkornbrot mit leinsamen. The ingredients are 57% roggenvollkornbrot, 6% Leinsamen meersalz, melasse, hefe. It translates (according to babelfish) as Flax seed bread, rye whole-meal bread with flax seeds. Flax seed sea salt, molasses, yeast. >Rye flour will still give it >a comparatively low GI, even with molasses. German ingredients are listed in >order of volume/weight. I love german breads, which is why I bought some back with me. > every 20 minutes in case I had a sudden peak, I found my peak was at > 112!! I tested a couple of times with a second meter to be sure, but > it was close. This makes NO sense to me. The rest of the meal was > identical, as was my prior food consumption for the day. I think eating more carbs can prime your system to produce more insulin for the next time, but the extra insulin could increase your appetite. If you are used to eating very low carb any extra would have more of an effect than if you were eating more all along. We want it to be simple, eat x carbs get y rise in BG. It might have worked that way with just insulin but in reality we're dealing with a complex interaction of insulin, glucagon, leptin, ghrelin, thyroid hormones, GLP1, digestive enzymes, gut bacteria, and who knows what else. Nothing is ever simple, maybe the same amount of carbs in the form of some apple eaten with the skin would have a different effect on your appetite than the bread because of the amount or type of fiber in it. Add some peanut butter and I might not be hungry again for hours. SignatureNo Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes >> every 20 minutes in case I had a sudden peak, I found my peak was at >> 112!! I tested a couple of times with a second meter to be sure, but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I think eating more carbs can prime your system to produce more insulin for >the next time, but the extra insulin could increase your appetite. I know that something made me feel like snacking about two hours after dinner. Not too bad, and easy enough to ignore, but not something I'd want to deal with every day (I have poor willpower, so I doubt I could deal with it every day). > If you >are used to eating very low carb any extra would have more of an effect than [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >because of the amount or type of fiber in it. Add some peanut butter and I >might not be hungry again for hours. It certainly can be confusing! Sometimes I feel like I'm stumbling around in the dark. It certainly would be simpler to just give up food entirely, but that would have some sever and permanent side effects, eventually. :-) : I know that something made me feel like snacking about two hours after : dinner. Not too bad, and easy enough to ignore, but not something I'd : want to deal with every day (I have poor willpower, so I doubt I could : deal with it every day). You can snack if you keep it quite low carb. Of course, you also want to be low calorie. Do yu tolerate carrots? I do so they, or the little grape tomatoes, say a custard cup ful, workd for me. A cup of sugar-free cocoa in cooler weather is nice too or sometimes, just a cup of tea of coffee, or if you feel like pigging out, one Wasa Light Rye with a bit of peanut butter. I always test at 1 1/2 -2 hours after dinner, not to see if i am at 120-my actual aim, but to see if I am lower and therefore, can allow myself a snack like the above. I may, if my number is low enough, eat a small dish of my low fat, no sugar added Edy's Ice crem. Now that is a real treat! : It certainly can be confusing! Sometimes I feel like I'm stumbling : around in the dark. We all do sometimes , and we all get surprising readings, eithe rhigh or low sometimes. : It certainly would be simpler to just give up food entirely, but that : would have some sever and permanent side effects, eventually. :-) Oh, think of the fun youl'd be missing. All those interesting low carb recipes:-) let alone all those tsty things we still can eat. It just can't be reduced to a simple formula, so if yu occasionally mis, eithe rhigh or low, don't sweat it. Just wait for the next meal and get it straighened out. We are not machines or robots, nor were we designed by engineers, so we can't be controlled like engineers woudl like. Wendy >: I know that something made me feel like snacking about two hours after >: dinner. Not too bad, and easy enough to ignore, but not something I'd >: want to deal with every day (I have poor willpower, so I doubt I could >: deal with it every day). > >You can snack if you keep it quite low carb. In my case, it also needs to be low calorie. >Of course, you also want to >be low calorie. Do yu tolerate carrots? Sort of... I've never seen them spike me, but I have them in small amounts, such as in salad. I haven't tested raw carrot by itself yet. > I do so they, or the little >grape tomatoes, say a custard cup ful, workd for me. I can't stand raw tomatoes, but one snack I do have is sugar-free jello, and also celery sticks. > A cup of sugar-free >cocoa in cooler weather is nice too or sometimes, just a cup of tea of >coffee, I love sugar-free hot cocoa... I'll have to look at the calories, but that sure sounds good! Thanks!! >or if you feel like pigging out, one Wasa Light Rye with a bit of >peanut butter. I always test at 1 1/2 -2 hours after dinner, not to see >if i am at 120-my actual aim, but to see if I am lower and therefore, can >allow myself a snack like the above. I've never been fond of desert right after dinner, so if I have it, I have it two to three hours later, usually a low-carb yogurt. > I may, if my number is low enough, >eat a small dish of my low fat, no sugar added Edy's Ice crem. Now that >is a real treat! Once calories are no longer such a concern, I'm planning on trying (on occasion) my pre-Dx favorite: sugar free jello with real cream. >: It certainly would be simpler to just give up food entirely, but that >: would have some sever and permanent side effects, eventually. :-) > >Oh, think of the fun youl'd be missing. All those interesting low carb >recipes:-) let alone all those tsty things we still can eat. Oh, how true! My "indulgence" foods are mostly low carb anyway, so low-carb cooking is no problem for me. I've also found low-carb versions of a few favorites, such as smoothie drinks. Actually, this is rather funny: Pre Dx, I loved a bottled smoothie made by Blue Bunny. I looked around for a low-carb version, and found a few, such as by Dannon which were ok... However, a few weeks ago I was in wallmart, and decided to look at the Blue Bunny label to see just how many carbs it had. I got a shock, it was just 5! I then turned the bottle around and discovered that it had, in huge print on the front, it's name: Carb freedom. So, the drink I'd been having pre Dx, and looked high and low to find an alternative to, was low carb all along! And I'd never noticed! :-) > It just >can't be reduced to a simple formula, so if yu occasionally mis, eithe >rhigh or low, don't sweat it. Just wait for the next meal and get it >straighened out. I think I'll be a lot more relaxed once I get my blood test in a few weeks. I'll trust my meter more once I've checked it against their FBG, and I do want to see my A1C. > Actually, this is rather funny: Pre Dx, I loved a bottled smoothie > made by Blue Bunny. I looked around for a low-carb version, and found [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Dx, and looked high and low to find an alternative to, was low carb > all along! And I'd never noticed! :-) There are a few low-carb products that the whole family now prefer to the high-carb versions - hoisin and BBQ sauces, for instance, are spicier and tangier. The kids are always stealing my flaxseed cereal, and as for mashed cauli...! My yoghurt is nicer and cheaper than the shop-bought stuff, and much lower in carbs. Black bread is another favourite. The only recipes I've had to drastically rejig are pasta ones - but I've always preferred moussaka to lasagne : ) Nicky. SignatureA1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/74/72Kg : > A cup of sugar-free : >cocoa in cooler weather is nice too or sometimes, just a cup of tea of : >coffee, : I love sugar-free hot cocoa... I'll have to look at the calories, but : that sure sounds good! Thanks!! It is usually right on the box prominently and is aobut 50 calories. : I've never been fond of desert right after dinner, so if I have it, I : have it two to three hours later, usually a low-carb yogurt. O dp that sometimes too, articularly if I think I had a bit more carb in teh dinner than usual. I wait fo rmy 1 1/2 hour test. : > I may, if my number is low enough, : >eat a small dish of my low fat, no sugar added Edy's Ice crem. Now that : >is a real treat! : Once calories are no longer such a concern, I'm planning on trying (on : occasion) my pre-Dx favorite: sugar free jello with real cream. The ice cream is about 80-110 calories per 1/2cup, dependign on the flavor. : >: It certainly would be simpler to just give up food entirely, but that : >: would have some sever and permanent side effects, eventually. :-) : > : >Oh, think of the fun youl'd be missing. All those interesting low carb : >recipes:-) let alone all those tsty things we still can eat. : Oh, how true! My "indulgence" foods are mostly low carb anyway, so : low-carb cooking is no problem for me. I've also found low-carb : versions of a few favorites, such as smoothie drinks. : Actually, this is rather funny: Pre Dx, I loved a bottled smoothie : made by Blue Bunny. I looked around for a low-carb version, and found [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : Dx, and looked high and low to find an alternative to, was low carb : all along! And I'd never noticed! :-) Does it have sugar alcohols? this may be a new version. : > It just : >can't be reduced to a simple formula, so if yu occasionally mis, eithe : >rhigh or low, don't sweat it. Just wait for the next meal and get it : >straighened out. : I think I'll be a lot more relaxed once I get my blood test in a few : weeks. I'll trust my meter more once I've checked it against their : FBG, and I do want to see my A1C. OK, fair enough. Ultimately, yu will find a way to live with this disease and without total panic etc. I keep a computer running in my hear counting carbs when I look at fot away from home, but may splurge a bit sometimes and am often plesantly surprised as ong as there are no potato chips:-) Wendy >The ice cream is about 80-110 calories per 1/2cup, dependign on the >flavor. That's not bad at all... I've just never been really fond of ice cream. >: Actually, this is rather funny: Pre Dx, I loved a bottled smoothie >: made by Blue Bunny. I looked around for a low-carb version, and found [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Does it have sugar alcohols? this may be a new version. None that I can see from the label. It's sweetened with Splenda. It's not low cal as it's 140 calories for 10oz, but it sure is good. >: I think I'll be a lot more relaxed once I get my blood test in a few >: weeks. I'll trust my meter more once I've checked it against their >: FBG, and I do want to see my A1C. > >OK, fair enough. Ultimately, yu will find a way to live with this disease >and without total panic etc. But how will I replace the excellent calorie-burning of panic? :-) > I keep a computer running in my hear >counting carbs when I look at fot away from home, but may splurge a bit >sometimes and am often plesantly surprised as ong as there are no >potato chips:-) ROFL! I do that too. I think I can estimate most things fairly well now. > I need to solve the puzzle of how many carbs i can eat without [dark German bread] I've found that pure numbers of carbs just don't mean very much to my body--it's more dependent on the combinations of foods I eat at a meal. I frequently eat a piece of German bread at breakfast (rye flour) with some cottage cheese and veggies, and get hardly a blip. I can eat almost any carb at lunch or dinner if it's with freshly cooked spinach and roasted or grilled chicken or turkey, but I have to limit it to one serving (according to ADA guidelines) to be entirely safe. pc >> I need to solve the puzzle of how many carbs i can eat without [dark German bread] > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >and roasted or grilled chicken or turkey, but I have to limit it to one >serving (according to ADA guidelines) to be entirely safe. That's very interesting... I never thought of trying that. I do eat some fat with carbs, but I almost always have veg with a meal so perhaps I'm getting that same effect. : >It sould be fine. I use the Starlix whdn I eat Chinese food and can have : >both the hot an sour soup and a small amount of brown rice with my meal [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : >Starlix with that test, but woudl hesitate to try it even with the strlix. : >THE moral is "don't break you r own tried adn true rules:-)" : Well, my idea of seeing how many carbs I can eat without the Starlix : is a bit of a failure. I wanted to see what it would take to push me : to around 140. : I tried adding a slice of a rich german bread (about 30 carbs, making : 40 for the meal.) to my dinner. That got me to about 120 the first [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : it was close. This makes NO sense to me. The rest of the meal was : identical, as was my prior food consumption for the day. : The bread, to my surprise, has molasses in it (The ingredients are in : german which I don't speak, and only translated today) so it's not : even low GI as I had thought. : The effects I did see were that eating that many carbs made me want to : snack later, and my Bg took longer (half an hour longer) to drop back : to normal between-meal levels (compared to a low-carb meal). : I really don't want to abuse my system and de-rail my diet by trying : even more of that bread, so I'm undecided as to what to do next. : Probably try it with a different carb source in a few days, or maybe : try it at breakfast when I'm more carb sensitive. : : >When you do try it, let us know how it works out. : I will, but I think I need to solve the puzzle of how many carbs i can : eat without it first, otherwise I won't even know if it works. Chris, You have been eating very few carbs and probably have lost some weight and may well be exercising more than you used to. All these combined to keep your bgs very low( lower than most of us here actually aim for.) I have not commented on how low your carbs still are, but addign a piece of bread to your very low carb meals, particularly not at breakfast, may well be something you can tolerate diabetically. The molasses in teh bread was probably not a large amount, say a few tablespoonsful for a whole loaf. The whole grains are still low glycemis and might account for the slightly longer time at slightly elevated bg's / What is your normal between meals number? are you in the 80's or 90's: I htink you are still a bit over careful about your eating and trying small amounts of carbs in your meal. Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to tell you to go hog wild with the carbs, but yu may find you can tolerate a bit more than you have been eating. You are not the same glucotoxic guy you were when you first came here, with a condition exacerbated by an infection and all that lousy carby food a the hospital. You are doing great! Wendy >You have been eating very few carbs and probably have lost some weight and >may well be exercising more than you used to. Sort of... I've lost 25 lbs since Dx, and have increased carbs to about 35 per day. My weight loss is slow now, about a pound a week, which I am happy with. I can't honestly say I'm much more active though. I was very active pre Dx, and have increased a bit but not a lot. >All these combined to keep >your bgs very low( lower than most of us here actually aim for.) I tried to drive them as low as I could, as fast as I could. At first, I had no choice due to the infection. Later, I kept it up to try and give my pancreas a rest and also to lower my IR. > I have >not commented on how low your carbs still are, but addign a piece of bread >to your very low carb meals, particularly not at breakfast, may well be >something you can tolerate diabetically. So far, my BG's have tolerated it very well, far better than I could have hoped for. I'm thinking of doing it on a regular basis unless there are other reasons not to. >The molasses in teh bread was >probably not a large amount, say a few tablespoonsful for a whole loaf. >The whole grains are still low glycemis and might account for the slightly >longer time at slightly elevated bg's / What is your normal between meals >number? are you in the 80's or 90's: Depends on which meter I'm using... The One Touch read about 10 bg higher than the accu-check at normal bg's. So, it's either in the mid 80's or mid 90's, same as my FBG. >I htink you are still a bit over careful about your eating and trying >small amounts of carbs in your meal. Don't get me wrong. I am not trying >to tell you to go hog wild with the carbs, but yu may find you can >tolerate a bit more than you have been eating. So far, my bread tests seem to bear that out. I'm certainly not going to rush out and buy potatoes or donuts, but it's sure nice to know I can add a few whole grains back into my menu. Those are one carby thing I truly did love, and miss. BTW, one reason (and I might be wrong) that I've been so cautious about carbs is that I had BG trouble in the first place. My pre-Dx diet was healthy by average standards, and not high carb, but something caused my BG trouble and weight gain over the past few years. I do have many more carbs (and calories) during long (over 10 mile) hikes. It's the one time I allow myself fruit juice and things like Granola or dried fruit. I've found that this does not bother my BG's while hiking, and gives me some extra energy. >You are not the same >glucotoxic guy you were when you first came here, with a condition >exacerbated by an infection and all that lousy carby food a the hospital. >You are doing great! Thanks!! BTW, please feel free to make any suggestions you want. I love both advice and constructive criticisms. : >You have been eating very few carbs and probably have lost some weight and : >may well be exercising more than you used to. : Sort of... I've lost 25 lbs since Dx, and have increased carbs to : about 35 per day. My weight loss is slow now, about a pound a week, : which I am happy with. Chris tht is a fantstic weight loss and yu must be cose to your goal, as you were not wildly overweight, if I remember correctly. 35 grams of carb a day is quite low and you may wel, particularly now that yu are carrying less weight, be able to handle quite a few more without a problem. I think of between 60-100 for me, but may well, actualy eat far less. I don't do a lot of counting for the low carb veggies, which may be 5 grams a cup. : I can't honestly say I'm much more active though. I was very active : pre Dx, and have increased a bit but not a lot. That's fine and probably stood yu in good stead at diagnoses. : >All these combined to keep : >your bgs very low( lower than most of us here actually aim for.) : I tried to drive them as low as I could, as fast as I could. At first, : I had no choice due to the infection. Later, I kept it up to try and : give my pancreas a rest and also to lower my IR. : > I have : >not commented on how low your carbs still are, but addign a piece of bread : >to your very low carb meals, particularly not at breakfast, may well be : >something you can tolerate diabetically. : So far, my BG's have tolerated it very well, far better than I could : have hoped for. I'm thinking of doing it on a regular basis unless : there are other reasons not to. : >The molasses in teh bread was : >probably not a large amount, say a few tablespoonsful for a whole loaf. : >The whole grains are still low glycemis and might account for the slightly : >longer time at slightly elevated bg's / What is your normal between meals : >number? are you in the 80's or 90's: : Depends on which meter I'm using... The One Touch read about 10 bg : higher than the accu-check at normal bg's. So, it's either in the mid : 80's or mid 90's, same as my FBG. That is splended low numbers for both times. : >I htink you are still a bit over careful about your eating and trying : >small amounts of carbs in your meal. Don't get me wrong. I am not trying : >to tell you to go hog wild with the carbs, but yu may find you can : >tolerate a bit more than you have been eating. : So far, my bread tests seem to bear that out. I'm certainly not going : to rush out and buy potatoes or donuts, but it's sure nice to know I : can add a few whole grains back into my menu. Those are one carby : thing I truly did love, and miss. : BTW, one reason (and I might be wrong) that I've been so cautious : about carbs is that I had BG trouble in the first place. My pre-Dx : diet was healthy by average standards, and not high carb, but : something caused my BG trouble and weight gain over the past few : years. If yu are testing and keeping track that shouldn't be a problem. Before, yu went high because of IR or IR and slowing pancreas but did not know to keep track. Just think of that nice gass of OJ for breadfast every morning! That's just for starters. : I do have many more carbs (and calories) during long (over 10 mile) : hikes. It's the one time I allow myself fruit juice and things like : Granola or dried fruit. I've found that this does not bother my BG's : while hiking, and gives me some extra energy. That's great and it gives you a chonce ot eat those things so yu don't dwell on missing them. : >You are not the same : >glucotoxic guy you were when you first came here, with a condition : >exacerbated by an infection and all that lousy carby food a the hospital. : >You are doing great! : Thanks!! : BTW, please feel free to make any suggestions you want. I love both : advice and constructive criticisms. Keep up the good work and don't be too hard on yourself! That's my criticism for today:-) Wendy >: >You have been eating very few carbs and probably have lost some weight and >: >may well be exercising more than you used to. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Chris tht is a fantstic weight loss and yu must be cose to your goal, as >you were not wildly overweight, if I remember correctly. Actually, the embarrassing truth is that I *SAID* I was not majorly overweight, and I believed it at the time. I do have a fairly heavy build, and assumed, wrongly, that I was about 25 lbs overweight. Getting a body-fat measuring scale and losing the 25 lbs soon corrected that bit of wishful thinking! I only just got below 20% body fat last week. I'm finally down to my old waist size of 32" (I'd gotten as big as 36"), BUT, I've still got flab on my belly and sides. So, I still have a ways to go. I'm guessing about ten pounds, although I think I've been saying ten pounds for the last 20 lbs! :-) >35 grams of carb a day is quite low and you may wel, particularly now that >yu are carrying less weight, be able to handle quite a few more without a >problem. I think of between 60-100 for me, but may well, actualy eat far >less. I don't do a lot of counting for the low carb veggies, which may be >5 grams a cup. Low carb veggies vary between 3 and 5 grams a cup, and I just make a rough guess on those. > : I can't honestly say I'm much more active though. >I was very active : pre Dx, and have increased a bit but not a lot. > >That's fine and probably stood yu in good stead at diagnoses. I'm just lucky that I had hobbies that involved exercise. >: Depends on which meter I'm using... The One Touch read about 10 bg >: higher than the accu-check at normal bg's. So, it's either in the mid >: 80's or mid 90's, same as my FBG. > >That is splended low numbers for both times. Thanks! >If yu are testing and keeping track that shouldn't be a problem. Before, >yu went high because of IR or IR and slowing pancreas but did not know to >keep track. Just think of that nice gass of OJ for breadfast every >morning! That's just for starters. Actually, that was one area where my diet was truly awful: I loved fruit juice, and would have several glasses a day (so I guess I was very high carb after all). I thought it was healthy, and never bothered to check it out for sure. Oops. >: I do have many more carbs (and calories) during long (over 10 mile) >: hikes. It's the one time I allow myself fruit juice and things like [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >That's great and it gives you a chonce ot eat those things so you don't >dwell on missing them. Very true! It bothered me a bit (psychologically) at first, but I'd found that I often felt a bit run down without it. And, my meter approves, so I'm happy with it now. I also recently tried a glass (at a restaurant) of diet grapefruit juice, which has ten carbs for a cup. I used to drink that pre Dx, and didn't think 10 carbs would spike me. It didn't. >: >You are not the same >: >glucotoxic guy you were when you first came here, with a condition [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Keep up the good work and don't be too hard on yourself! That's my >criticism for today:-) ROFL! Thanks... I'm a heck of a lot happier with my progress every day. |
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