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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / August 2005

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Loretta Eisenberg - 28 Aug 2005 18:26 GMT
I am thinking I may have to cut back on some of my meds,  I will call
the doctor.

This morning before breakfast I was 115, having been bad and eaten a
piece of birthday cake last night,  No regrets,  It was fabulous.  I
exercised first and then I had a half of cup of yogurt with one half
ounce granola, together with an eggbeater and salmon.

At two hours, I was 88 and was very surprised,  I am usually about 102
or thereabouts after two hours.  I was afraid I would go low, so I ate a
half of a small orange,  one hour later 88.

I think that I should stop the amaryl even though I had gone down to 1/4
mg.  

Just wondering what your opinion is.

Loretta

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
Grandpa Chuck - 28 Aug 2005 18:51 GMT
>I am thinking I may have to cut back on some of my meds,  I will call
>the doctor.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Loretta

I would consider all of those numbers to be very good. However, I am
not familiar with amaryl and what it does.

I think you are being very wise by consulting with your doctor before
making any changes in medications. After all, we tell newbies all the
time that we are not doctors or pharmacists and that all we can do is
share our experiences with them.

Have a wonderful Sunday Loretta.

p.s. you don't want to move away from NYC. You'd feel like a cowboy in
her middle of a herd of sheep. IOW, totally out of place.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the guotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Priscilla Ballou - 28 Aug 2005 19:03 GMT
> Grandpa Chuck
> -ô¿ô-
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
> it to be a political statement. I did not.

Chuck, I see no problem with political statements in sigs.  Having said
that, misspellings in sigs *do* annoy me (because I see them over and
over and over...).  Any chance you could change "guotation" to
"quotation?"

Priscilla
Signature

"Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what
the hell happened."  -- Cora Harvey Armstrong

Grandpa Chuck - 28 Aug 2005 19:24 GMT
>> Grandpa Chuck
>> -ô¿ô-
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Priscilla

LOL

You are so hung up on the spelling thing that when you asked the
question you asked me to change "quotation" you were not able to force
yourself to misspell it.  I actually had it the first time with an
extra letter at the end of it. Yes, as soon as I saw it I went back in
and fixed it. OTOH, thank you for pointing it out to me. Especially
since I don't see my sig in Agent before I send it. For instance, I
cannot see it right now. Golly, I hope I have it fixed.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the guotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Priscilla Ballou - 28 Aug 2005 20:46 GMT
> >> Grandpa Chuck
> >> -ô¿ô-
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> question you asked me to change "quotation" you were not able to force
> yourself to misspell it.  

No, I misspelled it correctly.  ;-)  I cut & pasted it.  You've still
got the misspelling in it.  Hint:  the word begins with "q" not with "g."

> I actually had it the first time with an
> extra letter at the end of it. Yes, as soon as I saw it I went back in
> and fixed it. OTOH, thank you for pointing it out to me. Especially
> since I don't see my sig in Agent before I send it. For instance, I
> cannot see it right now. Golly, I hope I have it fixed.

Nope.  Not yet!

Priscilla
Signature

"Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what
the hell happened."  -- Cora Harvey Armstrong

Grandpa Chuck - 28 Aug 2005 23:56 GMT
 

>No, I misspelled it correctly.  ;-)  I cut & pasted it.  You've still
>got the misspelling in it.  Hint:  the word begins with "q" not with "g."

Oops!

I did not even see that.
Thank you.

That's what I get for using Wordpad to compose it.
Wordpad does not have a spellcheck.

I should have caught that one myself.

Well, do I have them all now? I hope so.
--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the quotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Priscilla Ballou - 29 Aug 2005 01:34 GMT
> Well, do I have them all now? I hope so.

> I am taking out the quotation by America's first
> president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
> it to be a political statement. I did not.

Passes my grammar- and spelling-checking eye, sir!

Priscilla
Signature

"Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what
the hell happened."  -- Cora Harvey Armstrong

Alan S - 29 Aug 2005 08:02 GMT
>  
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>Well, do I have them all now? I hope so.

I thought I'd just let you know that, although Priscilla was
correct, it's mostly OK for spelling - you got my name
right:-)

Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Grandpa Chuck - 29 Aug 2005 18:56 GMT
>>  
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.

LOL

It's nice to know I got something right even though I am a left wing
liberal. ;-)

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the quotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Nicky - 29 Aug 2005 20:21 GMT
> It's nice to know I got something right even though I am a left wing
> liberal. ;-)

Huh! I thought that was a deadly insult to an American? : )

Nicky.

Signature

A1c 10.5/5.6/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/76/72Kg

Priscilla H. Ballou - 29 Aug 2005 21:30 GMT
> > It's nice to know I got something right even though I am a left wing
> > liberal. ;-)
>
> Huh! I thought that was a deadly insult to an American? : )

What?  I'm a leftie, and I fly the American flag off my front porch!  
It's my flag, too.  (So there!)

Priscilla
Nicky - 29 Aug 2005 22:28 GMT
>> > It's nice to know I got something right even though I am a left wing
>> > liberal. ;-)
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> What?  I'm a leftie, and I fly the American flag off my front porch!
> It's my flag, too.  (So there!)

OK, I surrender : )   (I'm still not calling any of my Floridian friends
"liberal", though...)

Nicky.

Signature

A1c 10.5/5.6/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/76/72Kg

Grandpa Chuck - 30 Aug 2005 01:42 GMT
>>> > It's nice to know I got something right even though I am a left wing
>>> > liberal. ;-)
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Nicky.

Look it up in the dictionary. It's a compliment.

Wait. I will post the definition here and save you the trouble.

lib-er-al             (libr-l, librl)adj. Abbr. lib. 1.   Not limited
to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian
attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry. Favoring proposals for
reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and
behavior of others; broad-minded. Of, relating to, or characteristic
of liberalism. Liberal Abbr. Lib. Of, designating, or characteristic
of a political party founded on or associated with principles of
social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada,
and the United States. 2.   Tending to give freely; generous: a
liberal benefactor. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of
potatoes. 3. Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal
translation. 4. Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and
sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.
5.   Archaic. Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth;
befitting a lady or gentleman. Obsolete. Morally unrestrained;
licentious.n. 1. A person with liberal ideas or opinions. 2.   Liberal
Abbr. Lib. A member of a Liberal political party.[Middle English,
generous, from Old French, from Latin liberalis, from liber, free. See
leudh-.]--lib'er-al-ly adv. --lib'er-al-ness n.

---------------------------------------------------------
Excerpted from American Heritage Talking Dictionary
Copyright © 1997 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

Keep George Washington's warning constantly in mind:
"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence —
I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens — the
jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake;
since history and experience prove that foreign influence
is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."
Susan - 30 Aug 2005 01:49 GMT
> Look it up in the dictionary. It's a compliment.
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Excerpted from American Heritage Talking Dictionary
> Copyright © 1997 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

An alternative definition comes from the late folksinger, Phil Ochs.  He
said: "A liberal is a person who's 10 degrees left of center in the best
of times, and 10 degrees to the right of center when it affects him
personally."

That was part of the intro to his song, "Love Me, I'm a Liberal."

Susan
Sleepyman - 30 Aug 2005 04:37 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
>Susan

Not wild about Ochs, but that is a great song. Analagous to the Kerry
liberals , who couldn't wait to pull the lever for jr, because the
fear got to them. And I'm afraid like all those Hillary supporters who
once they get in the voting booth will refuse to vote for a woman.

Sleepy

----------------------------
"If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for
Texas."
-Miriam "Ma" Ferguson , Texas governor (1920s)
----------------------------
Ma¢k - 30 Aug 2005 09:09 GMT
On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 22:28:38 +0100, "Nicky"
<ukc802466929@btconnect.com> Huffed and Puffed the following into the
madness of usenet:

>>> > It's nice to know I got something right even though I am a left wing
>>> > liberal. ;-)
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Nicky.

really?  how you could you call them anything but, haven't you seen
spring break and all the other activities like in that state?

NOT liberal?

since when?

granted a demented and twisted liberal, but still very much liberal.

Signature

Mâck©®
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
...Theodore Roosevelt

        (o o)  
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."

Jesus never hated anyone.

Grandpa Chuck - 30 Aug 2005 01:39 GMT
>> > It's nice to know I got something right even though I am a left wing
>> > liberal. ;-)
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Priscilla

Ours is flying from our flag pole which is close twenty-five feet
tall.

I got tired of it getting tangled in the fir tree so I added another
ten feet to it a couple of years back.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

Keep George Washington's warning constantly in mind:
"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence —
I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens — the
jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake;
since history and experience prove that foreign influence
is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."
Grandpa Chuck - 30 Aug 2005 01:37 GMT
>> It's nice to know I got something right even though I am a left wing
>> liberal. ;-)
>
>Huh! I thought that was a deadly insult to an American? : )
>
>Nicky.

Only to right wing conservatives who are now doing everything in their
power to castrate our Constitution and Bill of Rights.  ;-)

With Bush in the White House being called a left wing liberal is a
compliment.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

Keep George Washington's warning constantly in mind:
"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence —
I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens — the
jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake;
since history and experience prove that foreign influence
is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."
Alan S - 30 Aug 2005 01:14 GMT
>>>  
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>It's nice to know I got something right even though I am a left wing
>liberal. ;-)

Hi Chuck

Actually, in this country, the Liberal Party is right of
centre - equivalent to the UK Conservatives. So a "left wing
liberal" is a contradiction in terms.

Not only upside-down, but reverse-handed politics:-)

Maybe we should take another famous diabetic's advice and
think of our little group of diabetics like a folk group:

"Now this should be a lesson, if you plan to start a folk
group

Don't be mixing politics with the folk songs of our land

Work on harmony, diction, and play your banjo well

And if you have political convictions keep them to
yourselves"

Bloody good advice there.

The full version, in case you don't remember it, is below:
http://www.ne-ne.de/revhammer/lyrics-cover.html

Musical Folk Group
(Johnny Cash (original title: The One on the Right is on the
Left))

There once was a musical folk group, a picking, singing folk
group
They sang mountain ballads and the folk songs of our land
They were long on musical ability, folks thought they would
go far
But political incompatability led to their downfall

Chorus:
Well, the one on the right was on the left
And the one in the middle was on the right
And the one on the left was in the middle
And the guy in the rear, he was the drummer

This musical aggregation toured the entire nation
Singing traditional ballads and the folk songs of our land
They performed with great virtuosity and soon they were all
the rage
But political animosity prevailed upon the stage

Chorus:
Well, the one on the right was on the left
And the one in the middle was on the right
And the one on the left was in the middle
And the guy in the rear, he just kept drumming

Well, the curtain had ascended, a hush fell upon the crowd
As thousands there were gathered to hear the folk songs of
our land
But they took their politics seriously, and that night at
the concert hall
As the audience watched deliriously they had a free for all

Chorus:
And the one on the right was on the bottom
And the one in the middle was on the top
And the one on the left got a broken arm
And the guy in the rear, said "Oh dear, I must be the
drummer"

Now this should be a lesson, if you plan to start a folk
group
Don't be mixing politics with the folk songs of our land
Work on harmony, diction, and play your banjo well
And if you have political convictions keep them to
yourselves

Chorus:
Well the one on the right, well he works in a bank
And the one in the middle, well he drives a truck
And the guy on the left, he's an all-night DJ
And the one in the rear ....

Well the one on the right, well he works in a bank
And the one in the middle, well he rides a truck
And the one on the left is an all-night DJ
And the guy in the rear, oh yeah, he's still drumming

Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Chris J. - 30 Aug 2005 04:33 GMT
>Actually, in this country, the Liberal Party is right of
>centre - equivalent to the UK Conservatives. So a "left wing
>liberal" is a contradiction in terms.

I was wondering when someone would mention that.

>Not only upside-down, but reverse-handed politics:-)

Well, that sort of makes sense... You Antipodeans do everything upside
down or backwards, so why should your political definitions  be any
different?  :-)
Priscilla Ballou - 28 Aug 2005 19:01 GMT
> I am thinking I may have to cut back on some of my meds,  I will call
> the doctor.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Just wondering what your opinion is.

88 is what I would consider the high end of normal.  I don't like to eat
unless I'm under 100 and I prefer to be 80 or so.  I don't say I *have*
to eat if I'm not hungry unless I'm down near 70.

88 and 102 are also both within the permissable range for a home
glucometer measuring identical values of BG.

But remember that YM will definitely V.

Priscilla
Signature

"Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what
the hell happened."  -- Cora Harvey Armstrong

Grandpa Chuck - 28 Aug 2005 19:18 GMT
>88 is what I would consider the high end of normal.  I don't like to eat
>unless I'm under 100 and I prefer to be 80 or so.  I don't say I *have*
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Priscilla

Hi Priscilla,

You don't eat unless you are under 100?????

If I did that I would definitely have a liver dump within an hour or
two which in the end would be worse than if I had eaten.

For that matter, I have eaten a large meal when my before dinner was
135 or a bit higher and two hours later been below 120. When I asked
my doctor about that he said it is probably because my body senses
that I need more insulin so my pancreas releases it and because of the
meds I am on my body is able to utilize it.

But then as you said, YMMV.  Mine sure does. That's what makes us all
individuals and makes this disease such a challenge to handle.
--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the guotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Loretta Eisenberg - 28 Aug 2005 19:37 GMT
When I first joined ASD, I was told my Carole Dickinson not to eat carbs
unless under 110.  I think if I were just doing diet and exercise that
would be a plan,  I am rarely at that number, but sometimes like today
with breakfast, I was 115 I think and two hours later I was 88.  I try
to eat every four hours .  When I see 88 at two hours, it makes me
nervous so I have to eat some carbs,  I dont want to eat more food,
cause I want to not gain weight.

Loretta

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
Susan - 28 Aug 2005 20:02 GMT
> When I first joined ASD, I was told my Carole Dickinson not to eat carbs
> unless under 110.  I think if I were just doing diet and exercise that
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> nervous so I have to eat some carbs,  I dont want to eat more food,
> cause I want to not gain weight.

Loretta, I may have missed something; what is it about 88 that makes you
nervous?  I've recently begun taking metformin (finally no side effects,
YAY!) and I'm delighted to see 96 at one or two hours post meal.

If you've already explained this, my apologies.

Susan
Loretta Eisenberg - 28 Aug 2005 20:18 GMT
88 would be great if it were at the four hour mark or even three hour
mark, Susan,  I am afraid that if I am 88 at two hours, that I would
have a low at the three or four hour low and if I am not prepared for
it, I would suffer the consequences.

88 is a wonderful number,  I like to be around 100 at two hours because
when i eat my next meal I would be about 80ish.

Lorettta

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
Susan - 28 Aug 2005 20:53 GMT
> 88 would be great if it were at the four hour mark or even three hour
> mark, Susan,  I am afraid that if I am 88 at two hours, that I would
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> 88 is a wonderful number,  I like to be around 100 at two hours because
> when i eat my next meal I would be about 80ish.

I see.  Have you tried testing it a half hour later to see if you're
stable or dropping or rising?  Before eating to raise it, I mean?

It might be informative.  Frex, I run pretty low as a rule, and I don't
feel at all low until I hit the low 60s.

Susan
Grandpa Chuck - 28 Aug 2005 20:43 GMT
>When I first joined ASD, I was told my Carole Dickinson not to eat carbs
>unless under 110.  I think if I were just doing diet and exercise that
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Loretta

I can understand why it makes you nervous. Sometimes I will have
symptoms of being hypo at around 90. Other times I won't notice it
until I am down to 70 or just above.

All I know is if I start to feel shakey and irritable and I haven't
been drinking a lot of coffee (which I almost never do) I must eat
something right away regardless of what my meter says.

I had one incident of that happening and I ate something with 15g of
carbs and then tested immediately after. I was at 135. I asked my
doctor what he thought that was all about. He said I probably had a
spike just before that and was crashing. He went on say that grabbing
something with 15g in it and eating it was a real good idea since it
would stop the crash and allow me to return to numbers under 120 more
slowly.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the guotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Priscilla Ballou - 28 Aug 2005 20:57 GMT
> >When I first joined ASD, I was told my Carole Dickinson not to eat carbs
> >unless under 110.  I think if I were just doing diet and exercise that
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> would stop the crash and allow me to return to numbers under 120 more
> slowly.

OTOH, your body may have been trained by high BG to think that numbers
like 100 are low, and it just needs retraining.

Priscilla
Signature

"Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what
the hell happened."  -- Cora Harvey Armstrong

Chris J. - 28 Aug 2005 21:34 GMT
>OTOH, your body may have been trained by high BG to think that numbers
>like 100 are low, and it just needs retraining.

That seems to have occurred with me. About two weeks after diagnosis I
finally got below 100, and  started getting false hypos. After two
weeks i'm now ok down to around 80.

I have no idea if I am OK below that, because I think my liver still
has problems adjusting to the lower BG's. I keep getting what I'm
calling "mini dumps" when I get down to the mid 80's. My BG's will
jump up to 100-105 with no food of any kind. If I still don't eat, and
am exercising mildly (say, on a hike) the BG will slowly creep down
again, then the cycle repeats. However, if I go hungry for too long I
start getting much bigger dumps, so I don't do that if I can avoid it.

This problem kicks in whenever I get into the low or mid 80's.

Am I right that this problem is a kind of mini liver dump? And, given
the ranges I'm seeing from this, is it really much of a problem for a
T-2?

From my inexperienced point of view it looks useful to not be having
hypos, but on the other hand I know that liver dumps are considered a
bad thing.
Priscilla Ballou - 28 Aug 2005 23:31 GMT
> >OTOH, your body may have been trained by high BG to think that numbers
> >like 100 are low, and it just needs retraining.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> hypos, but on the other hand I know that liver dumps are considered a
> bad thing.

Well, in so far as they may raise one's BG too high, yes.

Chris, I can't remember if you're on metformin or not.  Metformin, once
it kicks in, which isn't immediate, can reduce liver dumps.  You're also
really new to lowered BG, so your body hasn't really had a chance yet to
settle into new habits.

Priscilla
Signature

"Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what
the hell happened."  -- Cora Harvey Armstrong

Chris J. - 29 Aug 2005 01:02 GMT
>> >OTOH, your body may have been trained by high BG to think that numbers
>> >like 100 are low, and it just needs retraining.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>Well, in so far as they may raise one's BG too high, yes.

But are small dumps that raise my BG 20 points, to  between 100 to 105
all that bad? So far, that's all I get unless I get really hungry due
to a missed meal or a too low calorie consumption on a long hike.  

>Chris, I can't remember if you're on metformin or not.

Yep, that's the only Diabetes drug I take. I've been on it for a
month, 2 weeks at current doses.

> Metformin, once
>it kicks in, which isn't immediate, can reduce liver dumps.  You're also
>really new to lowered BG, so your body hasn't really had a chance yet to
>settle into new habits.

Ahh, thanks...

Is there anything I ought to be doing about these "mini dumps"?
Nicky - 29 Aug 2005 10:24 GMT
> But are small dumps that raise my BG 20 points, to  between 100 to 105
> all that bad? So far, that's all I get unless I get really hungry due
> to a missed meal or a too low calorie consumption on a long hike.

I can go from 6-ish to 12-ish within 10 minutes or so, with no warning other
than a feeling of mild hunger.

Nicky.

Signature

A1c 10.5/5.6/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/76/72Kg

Priscilla H. Ballou - 29 Aug 2005 18:47 GMT
> But are small dumps that raise my BG 20 points, to  between 100 to 105
> all that bad? So far, that's all I get unless I get really hungry due
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Is there anything I ought to be doing about these "mini dumps"?

I don't know that I'd call them dumps of any kind.  They may just be
variations in your meter.  

Priscilla
Chris J. - 30 Aug 2005 02:08 GMT
>> Is there anything I ought to be doing about these "mini dumps"?
>
>I don't know that I'd call them dumps of any kind.  They may just be
>variations in your meter.  

I am not sure, but I don't think they are just variations. They follow
a pattern. If my BG drops below the mid 80's they almost always
happen, and then my BG reads from 100 to 105. They don't seem to
happen otherwise.

Anyone else have this situation? Any idea what causes it?
Grandpa Chuck - 29 Aug 2005 00:04 GMT
>> >When I first joined ASD, I was told my Carole Dickinson not to eat carbs
>> >unless under 110.  I think if I were just doing diet and exercise that
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>OTOH, your body may have been trained by high BG to think that numbers
>like 100 are low, and it just needs retraining.

If that were true then would I not get hypo symptoms any time I am
below 100? I usually do not get them until I am less than 85 and
sometimes not until I am less than 75.

>Priscilla

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the quotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Chris J. - 29 Aug 2005 01:04 GMT
>>OTOH, your body may have been trained by high BG to think that numbers
>>like 100 are low, and it just needs retraining.
>
>If that were true then would I not get hypo symptoms any time I am
>below 100? I usually do not get them until I am less than 85 and
>sometimes not until I am less than 75.

I did get false hypos (hypo symptoms) whenever I was below 100, at
first. That phase passed after a while.
Grandpa Chuck - 29 Aug 2005 02:16 GMT
>>>OTOH, your body may have been trained by high BG to think that numbers
>>>like 100 are low, and it just needs retraining.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>I did get false hypos (hypo symptoms) whenever I was below 100, at
>first. That phase passed after a while.

I am right at my ninth anniversary of being diagnosed. I hardly think
that would still be part of "at first." <G> It is just something that
I have happen once in a great while - not often at all.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the quotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Chris J. - 29 Aug 2005 05:28 GMT
>>I did get false hypos (hypo symptoms) whenever I was below 100, at
>>first. That phase passed after a while.
>
>I am right at my ninth anniversary of being diagnosed. I hardly think
>that would still be part of "at first." <G>

Well, I'm a seasoned and experienced old hand at this whole diabetes
thing.. I was diagnosed almost five weeks ago... <G>

>It is just something that
>I have happen once in a great while - not often at all.

Sorry to hear it happens at all. I know from my own false hypos that
they are no fun at all.
Grandpa Chuck - 29 Aug 2005 18:55 GMT
>>>I did get false hypos (hypo symptoms) whenever I was below 100, at
>>>first. That phase passed after a while.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Well, I'm a seasoned and experienced old hand at this whole diabetes
>thing.. I was diagnosed almost five weeks ago... <G>

LOL

Hang in there and it won't be long before you are a long timer here.

>>It is just something that
>>I have happen once in a great while - not often at all.
>
>Sorry to hear it happens at all. I know from my own false hypos that
>they are no fun at all.

No they aren't. All I know is if I treat it as if I am hypo by eating
something that stops it.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the quotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Chris J. - 30 Aug 2005 02:04 GMT
>>Well, I'm a seasoned and experienced old hand at this whole diabetes
>>thing.. I was diagnosed almost five weeks ago... <G>
>
>LOL
>
>Hang in there and it won't be long before you are a long timer here.

I do hope so, considering the alternative. :-)
Priscilla Ballou - 29 Aug 2005 01:33 GMT
> >> I can understand why it makes you nervous. Sometimes I will have
> >> symptoms of being hypo at around 90. Other times I won't notice it
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> below 100? I usually do not get them until I am less than 85 and
> sometimes not until I am less than 75.

You said, "sometimes I will have symptoms of being hypo at around 90."  
And then later you said, "I had one incident of that happening and I ate
something with 15g of carbs and then tested immediately after. I was at
135."  I was responding to those.

To me, those indicate a body out of synch with BG reality.  But YMMV.

Priscilla
Signature

"Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what
the hell happened."  -- Cora Harvey Armstrong

Grandpa Chuck - 29 Aug 2005 02:18 GMT
>> >> I can understand why it makes you nervous. Sometimes I will have
>> >> symptoms of being hypo at around 90. Other times I won't notice it
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
>Priscilla

If this were something that happens on a regular basis I would be
concerned. However, it happens so seldom that I am not worried about
it in the least. I know the physical feelings I get when I am hypo. To
me that is the important thing that I need to be watchful for. That
certainly does not mean it should apply to anyone else.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the quotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Loretta Eisenberg - 29 Aug 2005 15:16 GMT
Chuck, I dont understand why you had to take out the quote if it is in
your sig line under your name.   Is it part of your post, or is it under
your name.

L

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
Priscilla H. Ballou - 29 Aug 2005 18:46 GMT
> Chuck, I dont understand why you had to take out the quote if it is in
> your sig line under your name.   Is it part of your post, or is it under
> your name.

I don't think he did have to.  After all, the net is supported on
anarchy, but I think he wanted to make a statement by changing it as he
did.

Personally, I think politics and religion are fine topics for sigs.

Priscilla
Grandpa Chuck - 29 Aug 2005 19:05 GMT
>> Chuck, I dont understand why you had to take out the quote if it is in
>> your sig line under your name.   Is it part of your post, or is it under
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Priscilla

And President Washington's statement is neither political nor
religious.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

Keep George Washington's warning constantly in mind:
"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence —
I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens — the
jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake;
since history and experience prove that foreign influence
is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."
Priscilla H. Ballou - 29 Aug 2005 19:56 GMT
> >> Chuck, I dont understand why you had to take out the quote if it is in
> >> your sig line under your name.   Is it part of your post, or is it under
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> And President Washington's statement is neither political nor
> religious.

It's clearly political.  It just doesn't directly relate to contemporary
electoral politics.

> Keep George Washington's warning constantly in mind:
> "Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence —
> I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens — the
> jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake;
> since history and experience prove that foreign influence
> is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."

I'm not going to comment on the punctuation in it!

Priscilla
Grandpa Chuck - 30 Aug 2005 01:35 GMT
>> >> Chuck, I dont understand why you had to take out the quote if it is in
>> >> your sig line under your name.   Is it part of your post, or is it under
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>It's clearly political.  It just doesn't directly relate to contemporary
>electoral politics.

A caveat against giving in to foreign influence is political?
I what way?
I don't see it at all.

>> Keep George Washington's warning constantly in mind:
>> "Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence —
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Priscilla

Since I put it in by cutting and pasting if there are punctuation
mistakes they were already there. OTOH, punctuation is such an
indefinite art that many people have given up on it completely.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

Keep George Washington's warning constantly in mind:
"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence —
I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens — the
jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake;
since history and experience prove that foreign influence
is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."
Priscilla H. Ballou - 30 Aug 2005 22:10 GMT
> >It's clearly political.  It just doesn't directly relate to contemporary
> >electoral politics.
>
> A caveat against giving in to foreign influence is political?
> I what way?
> I don't see it at all.

Uh, a quote by a politician about issues relating to a specific system
of government and relationships between/among nations?  How can that
*not* be political?

It ain't theological!

Priscilla
Grandpa Chuck - 30 Aug 2005 22:25 GMT
>> >It's clearly political.  It just doesn't directly relate to contemporary
>> >electoral politics.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>of government and relationships between/among nations?  How can that
>*not* be political?

Let's see. According to your line of thought, if I object to people
like the Saudi royal family having so much influence in the Bush White
House that is political rather than just me wanting this nation to
remain one that is for the people and by the people of these United
States, that is a political statement? Does that about cover it? I
would think that a citizen of any county would have the same objection
to any other nation having a strong say in the operation of their
country and its government. Hmm, that's what we are now doing in Iraq
isn't it?

Well okay, but I still think it is simply a statement of someone
wanting to protect what is theirs.

>It ain't theological!

Well duh.

>Priscilla

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

Keep George Washington's warning constantly in mind:
"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence —
I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens — the
jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake;
since history and experience prove that foreign influence
is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."
Priscilla H. Ballou - 31 Aug 2005 19:42 GMT
> >Uh, a quote by a politician about issues relating to a specific system
> >of government and relationships between/among nations?  How can that
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> country and its government. Hmm, that's what we are now doing in Iraq
> isn't it?

Chuck, you sound like you think there's a problem with an idea being
political.  ????  Certainly opinions about governments and influence are
political opinions.  How would you classify them?

From the dictionary installed on my work computer:

political, adjective.
  1. of or concerned with politics.
  Ex. political parties, political wisdom. We have the right to vote on
a political question. The whirlpool of political vicissitude which makes
the tenure of office generally so fragile (Hawthorne).
  2. having to do with citizens or government.
  Ex. Treason is a political offense.
  (SYN) civil, civic.
  3. of politicians or their methods.
  Ex. a political slogan, a political meeting.
  4. of or having to do with governing or a government; governmental.
  Ex. political districts.
  5. having an organized system of government.
  Ex. Modern man is a political species.

> Well okay, but I still think it is simply a statement of someone
> wanting to protect what is theirs.

That's not mutually exclusive with it being political.

Priscilla
Grandpa Chuck - 31 Aug 2005 22:02 GMT
>> >Uh, a quote by a politician about issues relating to a specific system
>> >of government and relationships between/among nations?  How can that
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>political.  ????  Certainly opinions about governments and influence are
>political opinions.  How would you classify them?

LOL

I don't really have any problem with calling some things political,
but the word "political" attached to anything has degenerated into the
same category deserving no respect as has anything that has the words
"liberal" or "conservative" attached to it.

>From the dictionary installed on my work computer:
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
>Priscilla

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

Keep George Washington's warning constantly in mind:
"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence —
I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens — the
jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake;
since history and experience prove that foreign influence
is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."
Grandpa Chuck - 29 Aug 2005 19:03 GMT
>Chuck, I dont understand why you had to take out the quote if it is in
>your sig line under your name.   Is it part of your post, or is it under
>your name.
>
>L

<Smile>

You are right dear friend.

I think Alan complained about it because Washington speaks about
republicans in it and he thought it was a reference to the Republican
party. He may not know that the United States in a republic, not a
true democracy.

At any rate, I am putting it back. I do not find anything political in
it. President Washington was pointing out the dangers of foreign
influence.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

Keep George Washington's warning constantly in mind:
"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence —
I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens — the
jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake;
since history and experience prove that foreign influence
is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."
Alan S - 30 Aug 2005 01:17 GMT
>>Chuck, I dont understand why you had to take out the quote if it is in
>>your sig line under your name.   Is it part of your post, or is it under
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>it. President Washington was pointing out the dangers of foreign
>influence.

Come on Chuck. I've answered already, I have no problem with
Washington and you know it.

I do have a problem with foreign influence, but not in the
way that you think. Remeber, your lot are foreigners here.

Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Grandpa Chuck - 30 Aug 2005 01:47 GMT
>>>Chuck, I dont understand why you had to take out the quote if it is in
>>>your sig line under your name.   Is it part of your post, or is it under
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>Come on Chuck. I've answered already, I have no problem with
>Washington and you know it.

I had not yet read you posting where you explained that when I read
Loretta's that I replied to here.

>I do have a problem with foreign influence, but not in the
>way that you think. Remeber, your lot are foreigners here.

As are all of us here except for Native Americans. Kind of like your
relation to the Aborigines in Australia.

>Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

Keep George Washington's warning constantly in mind:
"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence —
I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens — the
jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake;
since history and experience prove that foreign influence
is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."
Susan - 28 Aug 2005 19:42 GMT
> You don't eat unless you are under 100?????

I don't either.

Susan
Bastian - 28 Aug 2005 20:45 GMT
> x-no-archive: yes
>> You don't eat unless you are under 100?????
> I don't either.

It's a habit that I'm contemplating for myself at some point in the future.

Bastian.
Priscilla Ballou - 28 Aug 2005 20:56 GMT
> > x-no-archive: yes
> >> You don't eat unless you are under 100?????
> > I don't either.
>
> It's a habit that I'm contemplating for myself at some point in the future.

Hang in there, Bastian!  :-)

Priscilla
Signature

"Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what
the hell happened."  -- Cora Harvey Armstrong

Alan S - 29 Aug 2005 08:04 GMT
>> x-no-archive: yes
>>> You don't eat unless you are under 100?????
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Bastian.

YMMV. It's certainly not a habit I recommend.

Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Grandpa Chuck - 28 Aug 2005 20:46 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Susan

Hmm. You don't get a liver dump or do you retest in an hour or so and
then eat something?

Well I guess whatever works best for you. For me it is more important
that I eat near my normal times regardless of what my bg is at that
time. That may change as this disease progresses.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the guotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Susan - 28 Aug 2005 20:51 GMT
> On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 14:42:39 -0400, Susan <nevermind@nomail.com>

> Hmm. You don't get a liver dump or do you retest in an hour or so and
> then eat something?

Nope.  Near as I can tell, I do pump out enough glucose to keep me
going, but I've never had a liver dump that raised me high.

>  Well I guess whatever works best for you. For me it is more important
> that I eat near my normal times regardless of what my bg is at that
> time. That may change as this disease progresses.

Chuck, you don't seem to be testing at 1 hr, is there a reason for that?

FWIW, I now take metformin, and I know Priscilla does, but not beta
stimulators.

Susan
Grandpa Chuck - 29 Aug 2005 00:01 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Chuck, you don't seem to be testing at 1 hr, is there a reason for that?

I see no reason to check at one hour and then again at two unless I
have eaten something new. Even with insurance strips are expensive
especially when my doctor doesn't think I need to test more than twice
a day. He does't want me to callous my fingers or to become obsessive
about my bg readings.

I take 5mg of Glipizide xr or xl whichever it is called in the
morning. 1,000mg of Metformin morning and evening.

>FWIW, I now take metformin, and I know Priscilla does, but not beta
>stimulators.
>
>Susan

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the quotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Susan - 29 Aug 2005 02:48 GMT
> I see no reason to check at one hour and then again at two unless I
> have eaten something new.

I see.  I find the 1 hour number very informative, and in my case, if I
only test at 2 hours, I'd miss any spikes.

 Even with insurance strips are expensive
> especially when my doctor doesn't think I need to test more than twice
> a day. He does't want me to callous my fingers or to become obsessive
> about my bg readings.

I don't think fingers get calloused from testing, at least not IME or in
my reading here, but maybe I've missed something.  I understand strips
can be expensive.

Susan
Grandpa Chuck - 29 Aug 2005 04:43 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>I don't think fingers get calloused from testing,

Right now I have thickened, aka calloused, skin on my left index
finger and left middle finger because those are the two fingers I test
on most frequently. I do you the ring finger and small finger
sometimes.

> at least not IME or in
>my reading here, but maybe I've missed something.  I understand strips
>can be expensive.

If it were not for the fact that a friend sent me a large supply of
strips for my meter I would be confined to testing no more often then
what I can get my doctor to prescribe. I'm going to talk to him again
about it on my next visit. Those strips combined with the ones that I
buy have made it possible for me to test several times per day when I
feel that I am in a period of flux.

>Susan

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the quotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Bastian - 29 Aug 2005 15:10 GMT
[The attribions may be wrong]
>> I don't think fingers get calloused from testing,
>
> Right now I have thickened, aka calloused, skin on my left index
> finger and left middle finger because those are the two fingers I
> test on most frequently. I do you the ring finger and small finger
> sometimes.

IMHO playing guitar is more damaging to the fingers in the long term
than testing would ever be. All the experienced guitar players I know
have thick callouses and almost no sensation in their fingertips.

I try to test using all fingers equally. The way I remember which finger
is next is to use the right thumb first and move one finger along with
each test. So the eigth test of the day is on the middle finger of my
left hand. On odd numbered days I start from the other end and use the
other side of the finger pad.

>> at least not IME or in my reading here, but maybe I've missed
>> something.  I understand strips can be expensive.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> that I buy have made it possible for me to test several times per day
> when I feel that I am in a period of flux.

I found this in the Royal Unit of GPs clinical guidelines for type 2
diabetes that i am reading through:

<quote>
The review by Coster et al also considered the role of self-monitoring
in people with Type 1 diabetes, and thus people using insulin.
Extrapolation of these findings may be useful in people with Type 2
diabetes requiring insulin therapy. Eight trials were also included in
this review looking at self-monitoring in people with Type 1 diabetes.
Four studies included children (age <18 yr), six studies included people
using twice daily insulin injections, one study included people using a
mixture of twice and one daily dosing. In concluding, for people with
Type 1 diabetes, Coster et al argued that the reviewed studies did not
provide evidence to support the clinical effectiveness of
self-monitoring in Type 1 diabetes. However, because the studies were
generally neither well conducted, nor well reported, and because they
had low statistical power, the review must be considered to give
inconclusive results. A recent study looked at the relationship between
self monitoring of blood glucose and glycaemic control. Karter et al
(2001) looked at the relationship between patients with diabetes, their
practise of self-monitoring (determined by redemption of test strip
prescriptions although redemption does not of course mean use and this
is not discussed anywhere in the paper) and level of glycaemic control.
The study was based on 24 312 responders to a survey (from 48 614 adults
on their Register for a continuous 2 year period from January 1996 to
December 1997). They found that patients who were categorised as more
adherent to ADA recommendations regarding selfmonitoring were more
likely to have better glycaemic control, at the level of statistical
significance. It included a so called control group but no primary data
is given for this group in the paper, rather a statement that by use of
models comparing this group with the analysis group it appears that
selection bias was not an issue. This study was described as a cohort
study, although it more closely resembled a cross sectional study, and
thus the major limitation is that no conclusions regarding causality can
be made. Franciosi et al (2001) had data available on nearly 3000
patients with Type 2 diabetes, the conclusions of this study were that;
self monitoring of blood glucose can have an important role in improving
metabolic control if it is an integral part of a wider educational
strategy devoted to the promotion of patient autonomy. In patients not
treated with insulin, self monitoring is associated with higher HbA1c
levels and psychological burden. They argued therefore that their data
did not support the extension of SMBG to this group. Overall, we would
argue that we can not give much credence to associations between blood
glucose control and blood glucose self-monitoring in observational
studies, as indeed it might be expected that patients and doctors who
use and advocate self-monitoring will be the same people who are
motivated to achieve better control.

Working group commentary Whilst self-monitoring per se cannot be
considered an intervention with impact on outcomes such as HbA1c,
decreased body weight, reduced incidence of hypoglycaemia or improved
health-related quality of life, it may prove useful to people in their
overall approach to self-care. For example self-monitoring could be
useful in allowing patients to see the impact of particular behaviours,
such as dietary habits, on their blood glucose levels. This may help
both in the process of identification of behaviours that prevent optimal
control being achieved (and also those behaviours that improve control)
and may also act as important triggers in behaviour change. This may be
of particular importance in for example individuals who were considered
to be moving in the direction of stepping up therapies, for example
moving on to insulin therapy. The information gained through
self-monitoring may be useful in reconsidering lifestyle behaviours and
allowing a further attempt at behaviour modification.
</quote>

The last paragraph especially has some suggestions that you could put to
your doc. As you (and the rest of us) fall into the small group who are
motivated to achieve better control.

Sorry for the long quote.

Bastian.
Grandpa Chuck - 29 Aug 2005 19:10 GMT

>> If it were not for the fact that a friend sent me a large supply of
>> strips for my meter I would be confined to testing no more often then
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
>
>Bastian.

That's alright Bastian. You made a good point.

My doctor is one that listens. I think if I stress to him that I want
to be able to test 4 to 6 times per day he will rewrite my
prescription. Especially since my strip prescription costs me the same
$25 for a months supply whether that is for 60 per month or 180 per
month.

--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

Keep George Washington's warning constantly in mind:
"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence —
I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens — the
jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake;
since history and experience prove that foreign influence
is one of the most baneful foes of republican government."
Alan S - 30 Aug 2005 01:27 GMT
>For example self-monitoring could be
>useful in allowing patients to see the impact of particular behaviours,
>such as dietary habits, on their blood glucose levels. This may help
>both in the process of identification of behaviours that prevent optimal
>control being achieved (and also those behaviours that improve control)
>and may also act as important triggers in behaviour change.

Thanks Bastian. It's a pity researchers haven't picked up on
this paragraph.

If you took out all the "could be's" and "may's" and
replaced them with positive statements this fairly clearly
states the purpose of the testing advice you see repeatedly
on this ng:

My amended version:

"Self-monitoring is useful in allowing patients to see the
impact of particular behaviours, such as dietary habits, on
their blood glucose levels. This helps both in the process
of identification of behaviours that prevent optimal control
being achieved (and also those behaviours that improve
control) and also acts as important triggers in behaviour
change."

Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Susan - 29 Aug 2005 15:24 GMT
> Right now I have thickened, aka calloused, skin on my left index
> finger and left middle finger because those are the two fingers I test
> on most frequently. I do you the ring finger and small finger
> sometimes.

I see. I test a lot more, but I rotate among more fingers, too.  So far
no callouses.

> If it were not for the fact that a friend sent me a large supply of
> strips for my meter I would be confined to testing no more often then
> what I can get my doctor to prescribe. I'm going to talk to him again
> about it on my next visit. Those strips combined with the ones that I
> buy have made it possible for me to test several times per day when I
> feel that I am in a period of flux.

Have you considered a Relion meter (if you're not already using one) or
buying strips on ebay?  Relion strips are relatively cheap, and bargain
prices on strips on ebay can be found pretty regularly.

Susan
Priscilla Ballou - 28 Aug 2005 20:48 GMT
> >88 is what I would consider the high end of normal.  I don't like to eat
> >unless I'm under 100 and I prefer to be 80 or so.  I don't say I *have*
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> You don't eat unless you are under 100?????

I try not to.  

> If I did that I would definitely have a liver dump within an hour or
> two which in the end would be worse than if I had eaten.

Wow.

> For that matter, I have eaten a large meal when my before dinner was
> 135 or a bit higher and two hours later been below 120.

What was it at 1 hour?

>  When I asked
> my doctor about that he said it is probably because my body senses
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> But then as you said, YMMV.  Mine sure does. That's what makes us all
> individuals and makes this disease such a challenge to handle.

Priscilla
Signature

"Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what
the hell happened."  -- Cora Harvey Armstrong

Nicky - 28 Aug 2005 21:26 GMT
>> You don't eat unless you are under 100?????
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Wow.

I eat immediately I get hungry, otherwise my liver aims for the skies. It
doesn't need to be much, but I definitely have to eat, whatever my meter
says.

Nicky.

Signature

A1c 10.5/5.6/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/75/72Kg

Grandpa Chuck - 28 Aug 2005 23:58 GMT
>> >88 is what I would consider the high end of normal.  I don't like to eat
>> >unless I'm under 100 and I prefer to be 80 or so.  I don't say I *have*
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>What was it at 1 hour?

The only time I normally check at one hour is if I ate a new food.

On the rare occasions when I have after such an incident it was lower
than the before meal reading.
--

Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
 ~

I am taking out the quotation by America's first
president, George Washington, because Alan S. considered
it to be a political statement. I did not.
Sleepyman - 28 Aug 2005 23:22 GMT
>> I am thinking I may have to cut back on some of my meds,  I will call
>> the doctor.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>Priscilla

I'm so glad I don't have to be so strict.

Sleepy

----------------------------
"If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for
Texas."
-Miriam "Ma" Ferguson , Texas governor (1920s)
----------------------------
Priscilla Ballou - 29 Aug 2005 01:36 GMT
> >88 is what I would consider the high end of normal.  I don't like to eat
> >unless I'm under 100 and I prefer to be 80 or so.  I don't say I *have*
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> >
> >But remember that YM will definitely V.

> I'm so glad I don't have to be so strict.

Are you T1 or is your T2 DM different from mine?  Sorry, but I don't
remember.

Priscilla, T2
Signature

"Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what
the hell happened."  -- Cora Harvey Armstrong

Sleepyman - 29 Aug 2005 03:51 GMT
>> >88 is what I would consider the high end of normal.  I don't like to eat
>> >unless I'm under 100 and I prefer to be 80 or so.  I don't say I *have*
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Priscilla, T2
I am an insulin using T2. But even before I was using insulin, I tried
to eat at regular times. I would cut back on carbs if my bg was higher
than I would like, but I would still eat.

Sleepy

----------------------------
"If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for
Texas."
-Miriam "Ma" Ferguson , Texas governor (1920s)
----------------------------
Susan - 29 Aug 2005 02:50 GMT
> I'm so glad I don't have to be so strict.

I don't think it's how strict one *has* to be, it's how tightly
controlled one wants to be.

Susan
Sleepyman - 29 Aug 2005 03:53 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Susan

My last A1c was 5.0

Sleepy

----------------------------
"If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for
Texas."
-Miriam "Ma" Ferguson , Texas governor (1920s)
----------------------------
Susan - 29 Aug 2005 15:22 GMT
> My last A1c was 5.0

I see that you use insulin, which would explain it.

Mine was 5.2 without it, and, importantly, I don't feel deprived foodwise.

I guess it depends on *how* we each decide to tightly control our bg.

For me, excess insulinemia was at the root of health problems that led
me to be IR, so I choose to eat in a way that requires less.

Susan
Sleepyman - 29 Aug 2005 23:51 GMT
>x-no-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Susan

I don't use insulin to eat crap. Before my betas took a hike my A1cs
were 5.4-5.6 without insulin.

Sleepy

----------------------------
"If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for
Texas."
-Miriam "Ma" Ferguson , Texas governor (1920s)
----------------------------
Susan - 30 Aug 2005 00:10 GMT
> I don't use insulin to eat crap.

Good!  (I didn't think you did).

Susan
Nicky - 28 Aug 2005 21:06 GMT
>I am thinking I may have to cut back on some of my meds,  I will call
> the doctor.
<snip>
> Just wondering what your opinion is.

I think your doctor will be very pleased with you : )

Nicky.

Signature

A1c 10.5/5.6/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/75/72Kg

Uncle Enrico - 29 Aug 2005 03:37 GMT
> I am thinking I may have to cut back on some of my meds,  I will call
> the doctor.

> At two hours, I was 88 and was very surprised,  I am usually about 102
> or thereabouts after two hours.  I was afraid I would go low, so I ate a
> half of a small orange,  one hour later 88.
>
> I think that I should stop the amaryl even though I had gone down to 1/4
> mg.  

When I began exercising and losing weight, I had to reduce the
sulfonylurea I was taking because it would give me lows. I reduced it 8
fold over a period of 6 months.  Amaryl is a sulfonylurea and acts an an
"insulin pusher" forcing the pancreas to produce more insulin. I was
taking Glipizide.

I found that as my insulin sensitivity improved with the weight loss and
exercise, I didn't need so much of my own insulin. I also suffered some
lows during exercise.

Glipizide was often unpredictable in the amount of extra insulin it
produced.

I later abandoned glipizide in favor of small doses of insulin to get
better control and stop pushing my pancreas.
Loretta Eisenberg - 29 Aug 2005 20:17 GMT
Unc. I was originally on 2 mgs a day of amaryl,  I am now down to a
quarter,  I had 99 before breakfast,  I had a low carb yogurt with some
granola, with a slice of whole wheat bread with some peanut butter, low
carb on it.  At two hours I was 2 hours, and at four hours. 67  Usually
at  67 I would feel low, but today for some reason no symptoms.

Now people might not think this is low carb, but I had chicken soup for
lunch with some noodles, a three ounce piece of chicken 1/2 cup of pasta
and some carrots.  I cant wait to check at 5.

I really think it is the exercising that is doing it.  I hope to get off
the amaryl complete because I have enough pills passing through my
liver.

Loretta

--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
RK - 29 Aug 2005 13:19 GMT
i'm so proud of you.. keep it up maw..

hugs...

|I am thinking I may have to cut back on some of my meds,  I will call
| the doctor.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
| of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
| terrorism.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 31 Aug 2005 12:36 GMT
> I am thinking I may have to cut back on some of my meds,  I will call
> the doctor.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Just wondering what your opinion is.

Would suggest you ask your doctor to give you parameters for when not to
take the amaryl based on your fasting BG measurement in the morning.


In Christ's love and service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
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