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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / August 2005

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Robert Dion - 28 Aug 2005 01:34 GMT
As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and now my BG's have
been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5.  My question is when can I start testing certain
foods, I'm thinking that maybe my blood has still too much glucose (glucose toxicity) so
I'm wondering that maybe at the stage I'm at now my BG will spike more readily.  Don't
know just thinking out loud.

Also, what kind of values of blood spikes am I looking at? From a low 6 to a spike of 9?
Is from 6.0 to 7.0 considered a spike?

From what I've read you have to test at about 1-2 hours after a meal, maybe 90 minutes
would be a good average.  I mean I really don't like using my lifescan lancet, so the less
times I prick myself the better.  I've asked my pharmacist if I could try the Accucheck
softclix.

You see I just found some Dreamfields pasta and I am dying to find out if it will spike my
BG.  I love pasta.

Anyways, thanks all.

Robert Dion
Thomas Muffaletto - 28 Aug 2005 01:34 GMT
these guestions are better answered by your doctor Robert.
if you have 3 different doctors treating you - you will probably come up
with 3 different treatments and probably 1 as good as the next.
put them all together and you may have a mess on your hands..

Signature

Tom
Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow

Information you can trust from the diabetes experts...
Your American Diabetes Association
http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp
the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards
http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index
Pictures of My motorcycle and I think 2 of my doggies.
http://www.adventurseofvtx1300c.com.50megs.com/photo.html

> As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and now
> my BG's have
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Robert Dion
Ozgirl - 28 Aug 2005 02:27 GMT
> these guestions are better answered by your doctor Robert.
> if you have 3 different doctors treating you - you will probably come
> up with 3 different treatments and probably 1 as good as
the next.
> put them all together and you may have a mess on your hands..

This will only help Robert if his doctor advises keeping
numbers as close to or actually in non diabetic range. 3
different docotrs may give 3 different answers but that
doesn't mean the answer is right according to today's
knowledge from research. This happens similarly with bp and
cholesterol. Some doctors are still, years down the track
advising the old upper limits for bp and total cholesterol
as well as bg.
Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:08 GMT
You're right Ozgirl, but I have a lot of confidence in my md and the
supporting staff at the clinic I go to.

Thanks Ozgirl
Robert Dion

>> these guestions are better answered by your doctor Robert.
>> if you have 3 different doctors treating you - you will
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>advising the old upper limits for bp and total cholesterol
>as well as bg.
GysdeJongh - 29 Aug 2005 00:40 GMT
> these guestions are better answered by your doctor Robert.
> if you have 3 different doctors treating you - you will probably come up
> with 3 different treatments and probably 1 as good as the next.
> put them all together and you may have a mess on your hands..

Hi Thomas Muffaletto,
I took the liberty to click your link at :

http://www.adventurseofvtx1300c.com.50megs.com/photo.html

and to scroll down to the last picture in the series I wonder , is this meal
recommended by the ADA .....Where is it in their food pyramid ?

Did you actually eat it ?
All of it ?
In one day ?

btw
nice bike

Gys
Nicky - 29 Aug 2005 10:37 GMT
> Hi Thomas Muffaletto,
> I took the liberty to click your link at :
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> All of it ?
> In one day ?

Oh dear - Tom's been sussed : )

Nicky.

Signature

A1c 10.5/5.6/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/76/72Kg

Thomas Muffaletto - 29 Aug 2005 15:04 GMT
>> these guestions are better answered by your doctor Robert.
>> if you have 3 different doctors treating you - you will probably come up
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> meal
> recommended by the ADA

From reading your posts I would take it you already know that answer.
but in case you do not - Nope it is not recommended by the ADA - it as
too much fat, protien and carbs.  but then again the ADA does not recommend
a diet
for ME.  they recommend going to a dietitian and having a diet worked out
for me.
nope my dietiitan wouldnt like it either.

>.....Where is it in their food pyramid ?

you can find all the food items in any pyramid.
but no food pyramids dont post every meal possible.

> Did you actually eat it ?

yep :)

> All of it ?

yep

> In one day ?

well it only took about 1 hour.  it was during a 5 hour
bike ride.  traveling at speeds between 80 & 95mph for most
of it with no windshield.  ever ride a bike for that long, that fast with no
windshield? its a work out.  when i got off the bike i felt like i was
loading trucks all night.
plus i didnt want to chance going low.
o by the way  95mph on my bike still scares me but it is fun for as long as
i can stand it.

> btw
> nice bike
>
> Gys

that's what people usually say when they see it.
I think its a beautiful bike :)

Signature

Tom
Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow

Information you can trust from the diabetes experts...
Your American Diabetes Association
http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp
the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards
http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index
Pictures of My motorcycle and I think 2 of my doggies.
http://www.adventurseofvtx1300c.com.50megs.com/photo.html

GysdeJongh - 31 Aug 2005 01:21 GMT
> well it only took about 1 hour.  it was during a 5 hour
> bike ride.  traveling at speeds between 80 & 95mph for most
> of it with no windshield.  ever ride a bike for that long, that fast with no
> windshield? its a work out.  when i got off the bike i felt like i was
> loading trucks all night.

I owned a matchless in the original second world war green. Brilliant machine.
Prepared for both the Sahara desert and under water. I am sure I burned more
calories keeping it in a working condition than riding it  :)

> that's what people usually say when they see it.
> I think its a beautiful bike :)

It is  :)

Gys
Thomas Muffaletto - 31 Aug 2005 23:56 GMT
Signature

Tom
Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow

Information you can trust from the diabetes experts...
Your American Diabetes Association
http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp
the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards
http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index
Pictures of My motorcycle and I think 2 of my doggies.
http://www.adventurseofvtx1300c.com.50megs.com/photo.html

>
>> well it only took about 1 hour.  it was during a 5 hour
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> more
> calories keeping it in a working condition than riding it  :)

riding underwater - now that would be an experience.  risk free ramping
comes to mind :).

>> that's what people usually say when they see it.
>> I think its a beautiful bike :)
>
> It is  :)

that is what people usually say about it when they see it.

i think its Heavenly :).
just kidding.. thanks

> Gys
Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:08 GMT
Yep, you're right.  That's why I would prefer to wait a bit more.  As
far as I'm concerned, I am pretty proud of myself to achieve the
numbers I'm getting now. Between 6.3 and 7.8 in less than a month.

Thanks Thomas

>these guestions are better answered by your doctor Robert.
>if you have 3 different doctors treating you - you will probably come up
>with 3 different treatments and probably 1 as good as the next.
>put them all together and you may have a mess on your hands..
ADE - 28 Aug 2005 02:01 GMT
Hi Robert,
You want to start your timing from the first bite of your meal.
According to my reading about testing, your glucose will peak at 1 hour
after meal and it should come back to pre meal glucose at 2 hour. your
goal for 1 hour after meal should be less than 8 and 2 hours should be
less than 6.7. Each person will vary in term of the exact time,
therefore you need to test yourself quite often in the begining to find
your peak. Your stress level, food, and activity level will effect your
glucose level. Try to use the lancet to the side of your fingers, you
will find them to be less sensitive. You might want to soak your hand
for few seconds in the warm water and shake them before poking them
with your lancet.

Dreamfield pasta effect people differently. Some said it gave no spike
and some said it spiked. It is YMMV (your mileage may vary) thing.

I found out that cutting down bread, pasta, rice, potato, and other
white starch brought my glucose down quite a bit. Exercise, too, is the
next most important tool to bring my glucose down.

I'm not a medical doctor. I learned everything I know from books and
this newsgroup. Take care and hope you'll be able to gain full control
of your glucose.
Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:08 GMT
Thanks ADE.

I'm with you, this newsgroup has helped me so much in coping with my
diabetes.  I feel I'm way ahead of the game because of
alt.support.diabetes.

Thanks for your insight ADE
Robert Dion

>Hi Robert,
>You want to start your timing from the first bite of your meal.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>this newsgroup. Take care and hope you'll be able to gain full control
>of your glucose.
Ozgirl - 28 Aug 2005 02:24 GMT
> As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and
> now my BG's have been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5.  My
question is
> when can I start testing certain foods, I'm thinking that
maybe my
> blood has still too much glucose (glucose toxicity) so I'm
wondering
> that maybe at the stage I'm at now my BG will spike more readily.
> Don't know just thinking out loud.

With no other changes other than meds I think you have given
meds a fair trial. Meds are not a magic pill and should
always be used in conjuction with dietary modification and
some sort of exercise. If you were me I would be definitely
starting to see what foods were keeping me high. What is an
average day's diet to you? The present one I mean.

> Also, what kind of values of blood spikes am I looking at? From a low
> 6 to a spike of 9? Is from 6.0 to 7.0 considered a spike?

For me personally, any rise at all is not acceptable but
others see it differently.

> From what I've read you have to test at about 1-2 hours after a meal,
> maybe 90 minutes would be a good average.  I mean I really
don't like
> using my lifescan lancet, so the less times I prick myself
the
> better.  I've asked my pharmacist if I could try the Accucheck
> softclix.
>
> You see I just found some Dreamfields pasta and I am dying to find
> out if it will spike my BG.  I love pasta.

You aim should be to lower bg's overall. Checking a spike
from say a starting point of 8 can still give you valuable
information but you really need to be at the lower end of
your bg range. Start looking at what changes you can make to
diet and exercise.
Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:21 GMT
Thanks Ozgirl.  From the start I intended to control my Diabetes
through my change of lifestyle.  That means exercising and changing my
eating habits.  I absolutely do not want to rely on meds for
controlling my diabetes.  A neighbour of mine relies on his diabetic
prescription to 'control' his diabetes. He eats pasta, pizza, chips
and soft drinks.  I don't know.....

Not me, I cut out all those foods. and working very hard to eat
sensibly.

Average day's diet:

Breakfast:

1 small banana, maybe with rye toast and peanut butter.
or a bowl of Special K carb fit
or yogurt and berries

Lunch
a pumpernickel sandwich, salad, veggies to nibble on
or a low carb TV dinner

Supper
A salad, with some proteins like tuna or eggs or chicken
usually I eat twice the veggies to protein+starch ration as per my
nutritionist's recommendation

And maybe a fruit at around 21:00

See ya.
Robert Dion

>> As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a
>month ago and
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>your bg range. Start looking at what changes you can make to
>diet and exercise.
Alan S - 31 Aug 2005 04:01 GMT
>Thanks Ozgirl.  From the start I intended to control my Diabetes
>through my change of lifestyle.  That means exercising and changing my
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>See ya.
>Robert Dion

Hi Robert.

Menu looks good - except that I couldn't eat that breakfast,
too many carbs for me. In fact, I haven't eaten a banana for
two years, and I'm in the centre of a banana-growing
district.

What are your 1hr and 2 hr numbers after breakfast?

Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Nicky - 31 Aug 2005 13:05 GMT
> Not me, I cut out all those foods. and working very hard to eat
> sensibly.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> or a bowl of Special K carb fit
> or yogurt and berries

That looks incredibly high carb for breakfast. Maybe as a bedtime snack.
What are your pp numbers like?

Nicky.

Signature

A1c 10.5/5.6/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/76/72Kg

Thomas Muffaletto - 31 Aug 2005 14:32 GMT
> Thanks Ozgirl.  From the start I intended to control my Diabetes
> through my change of lifestyle.  That means exercising

and never forget it :).  funny thing about exercise is
that in the begining it may be a real pain.  I do believe you are about
my age ( 41 ).  i am willing to bet if you do it right one day you will look
foward
to doing it and just wont feel right if you dont - much like when I didnt
eat cheese cake :).
these days while I am still far from in good shape - i look foward to a nice
work out more
than i do a piece of cheese cake.  funny thing tho - once you reach a
certain point ( especially if you
are about my age ) you can have both :).  I myself have not reached that
point but I will.
if you love food as I do Robert - keep exercising - but do it smart - chart
it.  care to share
or talk about the kind of exercise you are doing - sorry if you already
mentioned it.
if you did have you progressed?
for me the best way to increase strength and muscle and the ability to eat
more carbs.
i do 3 sets of 20 reps - the first set of 20 should be all I can do with out
cheating.
rest 2 minutes do another set of 20 - if you cant do 20 stop before you have
to cheat.
rest 2 minutes do as much as you can do.  each time i did this i notice I
was able to increase a few reps
on the set i could not complete. until i can easily do the 3 sets of 20 with
the same weight.
mind you I am starting over now and only doing 1 set of each for 6 weeks
then 2 sets of each for 6 weeks
and finally 3 sets of each.

>and changing my
> eating habits.  I absolutely do not want to rely on meds for
> controlling my diabetes.

either did I and now I am med free.

 A neighbour of mine relies on his diabetic
> prescription to 'control' his diabetes. He eats pasta, pizza, chips
> and soft drinks.  I don't know.....

when i was doing the 3 sets of 20 - all those things were easy to eat.
except non diet soft drinks - i just like diet soda more now.
but even tho my meter says I can - when I am working out
i like to show what i do and things like fatty pizza take away
the results  ( for me ).  i never cook meat in my sauce any more :(.

> Not me, I cut out all those foods. and working very hard to eat
> sensibly.

:)

> Average day's diet:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> or a bowl of Special K carb fit
> or yogurt and berries

6 inches of banana is a serving for me - bananas that are a little green
are a better choice for me and i stay away from them once they turn brown.

> Lunch
> a pumpernickel sandwich, salad, veggies to nibble on
> or a low carb TV dinner

on my diet i would have the 1 slice of pumpernickel if its 15 carbs
and save the other slice for 2 1/2 hours later.  but thats when i am on my
diet
the dietitan gave me.

> Supper
> A salad, with some proteins like tuna or eggs or chicken
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>>your bg range. Start looking at what changes you can make to
>>diet and exercise.
Alan S - 28 Aug 2005 02:59 GMT
>As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago
>and now my BG's have been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5.  My
>question is when can I start testing certain foods, I'm thinking
>that maybe my blood has still too much glucose (glucose toxicity)
>so I'm wondering that maybe at the stage I'm at now my BG will spike
>more readily.  Don't know just thinking out loud.

Hi Robert

By now you have read Jennifer's excellent advice at
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

Read it again, many of your questions will be answered
there.

Basically, test at your peak post-meal timing, review the
meal if it was high, change it next time to try to improve
the result, and keep doing that over and over until you meet
your goals.

When I was at the stage you are at, I tried to make sure I
didn't go over 8(145) at the one hour test (after my last
bite). As time went on and I improved, I re-set that goal to
7(126).

I didn't always succeed, but gradually it became easier and
easier to meet the goals.

Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
Signature

Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:21 GMT
Thanks Alan, that's my goal.

See ya mate!
Robert Dion

>>As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago
>>and now my BG's have been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5.  My
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
Vicki Beausoleil - 28 Aug 2005 06:27 GMT
> As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and now my BG's have
> been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5.  My question is when can I start testing certain
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Robert Dion

A word about the Dreamfields. Some people, myself included, find they
spike long after the meal. I spike at about 5 hours. Apparently this is
caused by more lower gut digestion, which varies in people. The
company's website also says that the pasta may not be suitable for those
with very high insulin resistance. I don't have insulin resisitance, so
I guess I'm a low-gut digester.

Also, don't cook the Dreamfields pasta any longer than suggested on the
label. Al dente is cooked enough. Leftovers seem to not digest the same
as freshly cooked pasta. Try it first with a sauce that's low in fat,
the fat in a sauce will change how it is digested.

Hope it works for you, it didn't for me. I 'cut' my rare meals of
regular pasta now with lightly cooked broccoli, usually about 1 part
pasta to 4 or 5 parts broccoli. Spaghetti sauce on broccoli is good!

It's great to hear you're doing so well, Robert. Keep up the good work!

Vicki
Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:33 GMT
Thanks Vicky, my nutritionist insisted quite heavily on cooking pasta
'al dente'. I mentionned Dreamfields to a diabetic friend and he's on
the lookout.  What I intend to do with the Dreamfields pasta is to
wait 'till I get a good reading and eat the cooked pasta as is, then
test.

Thanks Vicky
Robert Dion

>> As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and now my BG's have
>> been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5.  My question is when can I start testing certain
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
>Vicki
Thomas Muffaletto - 31 Aug 2005 14:34 GMT
> Thanks Vicky, my nutritionist insisted quite heavily on cooking pasta
> 'al dente'.

that is very true Robert - even with rice the less you cook it the better.
tell you the truth i now like whole wheat pasta more than i do the regular
pasta.
and that is not just a eat healthy sales pitch.  i really do like it more
now.

I mentionned Dreamfields to a diabetic friend and he's on
> the lookout.  What I intend to do with the Dreamfields pasta is to
> wait 'till I get a good reading and eat the cooked pasta as is, then
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>>
>>Vicki
None Given - 31 Aug 2005 17:31 GMT
> Thanks Vicky, my nutritionist insisted quite heavily on cooking pasta
> 'al dente'. I mentionned Dreamfields to a diabetic friend and he's on
> the lookout.  What I intend to do with the Dreamfields pasta is to
> wait 'till I get a good reading and eat the cooked pasta as is, then
> test.

Test for several hours, 3, 4, 5, to be sure, some people get a rise much
later than regular pasta, others little rise at all.

Signature

No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes

Vicki Beausoleil - 31 Aug 2005 19:03 GMT
> Thanks Vicky, my nutritionist insisted quite heavily on cooking pasta
> 'al dente'. I mentionned Dreamfields to a diabetic friend and he's on
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Thanks Vicky
> Robert Dion

Check Loblaws. They're the only ones in my area that carry it. It's
imported by Unico, so someone should have it.

If you can't find it, ask your friendly grocery store manager.

HTH

Vicki

Vicki
Nicky - 28 Aug 2005 21:10 GMT
> As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and now
> my BG's have
> been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5.  My question is when can I start
> testing certain
> foods,

Now! You'll get valuable data right away. You might get less of a spike when
your glucose toxicity is less, but the pattern will be the same.

Nicky.

Signature

A1c 10.5/5.6/<6  T2 DX 05/2004
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/75/72Kg

Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:33 GMT
Thanks Nicky
Robert Dion

>> As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and now
>> my BG's have
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Nicky.
Thomas Muffaletto - 31 Aug 2005 15:54 GMT
don't forget there are lots of low carb veggies you can add to help fill you
up.
for me I like to use about 6 baby carrots ( carrots are not low carb )  and
as much broccoli as I can stand.
there are plenty other low carb veggies that taste great roasted.
I am a believer in portion control - I find when I eat large meals no matter
what type
I get more hungry.
I also like adding that fake butter - butter buds I sprinkle it on corn on
the carb ( I usually have 1 small ear about 15 carbs)
and get my fat from something more healthy.  I must admit I usually end up
with 6 almonds for my fat.
on Sundays when I get the BBQ going - I usually skip the serving of fat and
well im sure the porterhouse
steak I had last Sunday had enough.  and I also roasted a bunch of veggies.
o I also grilled a red snapper
stuffed will lemon.
do you have a stationary bike or other cardio machine?  I think that is
weapon #1.
then comes strength training - o yea along with proper diet :).

this is what usually works for me when I am not working out - when I am
working out I can eat more.
I am still having a hard time getting motivated to do the kind of light work
out I am doing now.
but almost 3 years ago when first diagnosed I couldn't walk 1 or 2 blocks
with out having to stop cause of the pain in my ankle.
I find nutritional information on packages to be wrong when they mention
something like ( about 15 pieces ) I usually go by the weight.

Signature

Tom
Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow

Information you can trust from the diabetes experts...
Your American Diabetes Association
http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp
the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards
http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index
Pictures of My motorcycle and I think 2 of my doggies.
http://www.adventurseofvtx1300c.com.50megs.com/photo.html

 
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