Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Diabetes / August 2005
Testing question
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Robert Dion - 28 Aug 2005 01:34 GMT As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and now my BG's have been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5. My question is when can I start testing certain foods, I'm thinking that maybe my blood has still too much glucose (glucose toxicity) so I'm wondering that maybe at the stage I'm at now my BG will spike more readily. Don't know just thinking out loud.
Also, what kind of values of blood spikes am I looking at? From a low 6 to a spike of 9? Is from 6.0 to 7.0 considered a spike?
From what I've read you have to test at about 1-2 hours after a meal, maybe 90 minutes would be a good average. I mean I really don't like using my lifescan lancet, so the less times I prick myself the better. I've asked my pharmacist if I could try the Accucheck softclix.
You see I just found some Dreamfields pasta and I am dying to find out if it will spike my BG. I love pasta.
Anyways, thanks all.
Robert Dion
Thomas Muffaletto - 28 Aug 2005 01:34 GMT these guestions are better answered by your doctor Robert. if you have 3 different doctors treating you - you will probably come up with 3 different treatments and probably 1 as good as the next. put them all together and you may have a mess on your hands..
 Signature Tom Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts... Your American Diabetes Association http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index Pictures of My motorcycle and I think 2 of my doggies. http://www.adventurseofvtx1300c.com.50megs.com/photo.html
> As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and now > my BG's have [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Robert Dion Ozgirl - 28 Aug 2005 02:27 GMT > these guestions are better answered by your doctor Robert. > if you have 3 different doctors treating you - you will probably come > up with 3 different treatments and probably 1 as good as the next.
> put them all together and you may have a mess on your hands.. This will only help Robert if his doctor advises keeping numbers as close to or actually in non diabetic range. 3 different docotrs may give 3 different answers but that doesn't mean the answer is right according to today's knowledge from research. This happens similarly with bp and cholesterol. Some doctors are still, years down the track advising the old upper limits for bp and total cholesterol as well as bg.
Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:08 GMT You're right Ozgirl, but I have a lot of confidence in my md and the supporting staff at the clinic I go to.
Thanks Ozgirl Robert Dion
>> these guestions are better answered by your doctor Robert. >> if you have 3 different doctors treating you - you will [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >advising the old upper limits for bp and total cholesterol >as well as bg. GysdeJongh - 29 Aug 2005 00:40 GMT > these guestions are better answered by your doctor Robert. > if you have 3 different doctors treating you - you will probably come up > with 3 different treatments and probably 1 as good as the next. > put them all together and you may have a mess on your hands.. Hi Thomas Muffaletto, I took the liberty to click your link at :
http://www.adventurseofvtx1300c.com.50megs.com/photo.html
and to scroll down to the last picture in the series I wonder , is this meal recommended by the ADA .....Where is it in their food pyramid ?
Did you actually eat it ? All of it ? In one day ?
btw nice bike
Gys
Nicky - 29 Aug 2005 10:37 GMT > Hi Thomas Muffaletto, > I took the liberty to click your link at : [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > All of it ? > In one day ? Oh dear - Tom's been sussed : )
Nicky.
 Signature A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/76/72Kg
Thomas Muffaletto - 29 Aug 2005 15:04 GMT >> these guestions are better answered by your doctor Robert. >> if you have 3 different doctors treating you - you will probably come up [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > meal > recommended by the ADA From reading your posts I would take it you already know that answer. but in case you do not - Nope it is not recommended by the ADA - it as too much fat, protien and carbs. but then again the ADA does not recommend a diet for ME. they recommend going to a dietitian and having a diet worked out for me. nope my dietiitan wouldnt like it either.
>.....Where is it in their food pyramid ? you can find all the food items in any pyramid. but no food pyramids dont post every meal possible.
> Did you actually eat it ? yep :)
> All of it ? yep
> In one day ? well it only took about 1 hour. it was during a 5 hour bike ride. traveling at speeds between 80 & 95mph for most of it with no windshield. ever ride a bike for that long, that fast with no windshield? its a work out. when i got off the bike i felt like i was loading trucks all night. plus i didnt want to chance going low. o by the way 95mph on my bike still scares me but it is fun for as long as i can stand it.
> btw > nice bike > > Gys that's what people usually say when they see it. I think its a beautiful bike :)
 Signature Tom Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts... Your American Diabetes Association http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index Pictures of My motorcycle and I think 2 of my doggies. http://www.adventurseofvtx1300c.com.50megs.com/photo.html
GysdeJongh - 31 Aug 2005 01:21 GMT > well it only took about 1 hour. it was during a 5 hour > bike ride. traveling at speeds between 80 & 95mph for most > of it with no windshield. ever ride a bike for that long, that fast with no > windshield? its a work out. when i got off the bike i felt like i was > loading trucks all night. I owned a matchless in the original second world war green. Brilliant machine. Prepared for both the Sahara desert and under water. I am sure I burned more calories keeping it in a working condition than riding it :)
> that's what people usually say when they see it. > I think its a beautiful bike :) It is :)
Gys
Thomas Muffaletto - 31 Aug 2005 23:56 GMT  Signature Tom Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts... Your American Diabetes Association http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index Pictures of My motorcycle and I think 2 of my doggies. http://www.adventurseofvtx1300c.com.50megs.com/photo.html
> >> well it only took about 1 hour. it was during a 5 hour [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > more > calories keeping it in a working condition than riding it :) riding underwater - now that would be an experience. risk free ramping comes to mind :).
>> that's what people usually say when they see it. >> I think its a beautiful bike :) > > It is :) that is what people usually say about it when they see it.
i think its Heavenly :). just kidding.. thanks
> Gys Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:08 GMT Yep, you're right. That's why I would prefer to wait a bit more. As far as I'm concerned, I am pretty proud of myself to achieve the numbers I'm getting now. Between 6.3 and 7.8 in less than a month.
Thanks Thomas
>these guestions are better answered by your doctor Robert. >if you have 3 different doctors treating you - you will probably come up >with 3 different treatments and probably 1 as good as the next. >put them all together and you may have a mess on your hands.. ADE - 28 Aug 2005 02:01 GMT Hi Robert, You want to start your timing from the first bite of your meal. According to my reading about testing, your glucose will peak at 1 hour after meal and it should come back to pre meal glucose at 2 hour. your goal for 1 hour after meal should be less than 8 and 2 hours should be less than 6.7. Each person will vary in term of the exact time, therefore you need to test yourself quite often in the begining to find your peak. Your stress level, food, and activity level will effect your glucose level. Try to use the lancet to the side of your fingers, you will find them to be less sensitive. You might want to soak your hand for few seconds in the warm water and shake them before poking them with your lancet.
Dreamfield pasta effect people differently. Some said it gave no spike and some said it spiked. It is YMMV (your mileage may vary) thing.
I found out that cutting down bread, pasta, rice, potato, and other white starch brought my glucose down quite a bit. Exercise, too, is the next most important tool to bring my glucose down.
I'm not a medical doctor. I learned everything I know from books and this newsgroup. Take care and hope you'll be able to gain full control of your glucose.
Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:08 GMT Thanks ADE.
I'm with you, this newsgroup has helped me so much in coping with my diabetes. I feel I'm way ahead of the game because of alt.support.diabetes.
Thanks for your insight ADE Robert Dion
>Hi Robert, >You want to start your timing from the first bite of your meal. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >this newsgroup. Take care and hope you'll be able to gain full control >of your glucose. Ozgirl - 28 Aug 2005 02:24 GMT > As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and > now my BG's have been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5. My question is
> when can I start testing certain foods, I'm thinking that maybe my
> blood has still too much glucose (glucose toxicity) so I'm wondering
> that maybe at the stage I'm at now my BG will spike more readily. > Don't know just thinking out loud. With no other changes other than meds I think you have given meds a fair trial. Meds are not a magic pill and should always be used in conjuction with dietary modification and some sort of exercise. If you were me I would be definitely starting to see what foods were keeping me high. What is an average day's diet to you? The present one I mean.
> Also, what kind of values of blood spikes am I looking at? From a low > 6 to a spike of 9? Is from 6.0 to 7.0 considered a spike? For me personally, any rise at all is not acceptable but others see it differently.
> From what I've read you have to test at about 1-2 hours after a meal, > maybe 90 minutes would be a good average. I mean I really don't like
> using my lifescan lancet, so the less times I prick myself the
> better. I've asked my pharmacist if I could try the Accucheck > softclix. > > You see I just found some Dreamfields pasta and I am dying to find > out if it will spike my BG. I love pasta. You aim should be to lower bg's overall. Checking a spike from say a starting point of 8 can still give you valuable information but you really need to be at the lower end of your bg range. Start looking at what changes you can make to diet and exercise.
Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:21 GMT Thanks Ozgirl. From the start I intended to control my Diabetes through my change of lifestyle. That means exercising and changing my eating habits. I absolutely do not want to rely on meds for controlling my diabetes. A neighbour of mine relies on his diabetic prescription to 'control' his diabetes. He eats pasta, pizza, chips and soft drinks. I don't know.....
Not me, I cut out all those foods. and working very hard to eat sensibly.
Average day's diet:
Breakfast:
1 small banana, maybe with rye toast and peanut butter. or a bowl of Special K carb fit or yogurt and berries
Lunch a pumpernickel sandwich, salad, veggies to nibble on or a low carb TV dinner
Supper A salad, with some proteins like tuna or eggs or chicken usually I eat twice the veggies to protein+starch ration as per my nutritionist's recommendation
And maybe a fruit at around 21:00
See ya. Robert Dion
>> As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a >month ago and [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >your bg range. Start looking at what changes you can make to >diet and exercise. Alan S - 31 Aug 2005 04:01 GMT >Thanks Ozgirl. From the start I intended to control my Diabetes >through my change of lifestyle. That means exercising and changing my [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >See ya. >Robert Dion Hi Robert.
Menu looks good - except that I couldn't eat that breakfast, too many carbs for me. In fact, I haven't eaten a banana for two years, and I'm in the centre of a banana-growing district.
What are your 1hr and 2 hr numbers after breakfast?
Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
 Signature Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Nicky - 31 Aug 2005 13:05 GMT > Not me, I cut out all those foods. and working very hard to eat > sensibly. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > or a bowl of Special K carb fit > or yogurt and berries That looks incredibly high carb for breakfast. Maybe as a bedtime snack. What are your pp numbers like?
Nicky.
 Signature A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/76/72Kg
Thomas Muffaletto - 31 Aug 2005 14:32 GMT > Thanks Ozgirl. From the start I intended to control my Diabetes > through my change of lifestyle. That means exercising and never forget it :). funny thing about exercise is that in the begining it may be a real pain. I do believe you are about my age ( 41 ). i am willing to bet if you do it right one day you will look foward to doing it and just wont feel right if you dont - much like when I didnt eat cheese cake :). these days while I am still far from in good shape - i look foward to a nice work out more than i do a piece of cheese cake. funny thing tho - once you reach a certain point ( especially if you are about my age ) you can have both :). I myself have not reached that point but I will. if you love food as I do Robert - keep exercising - but do it smart - chart it. care to share or talk about the kind of exercise you are doing - sorry if you already mentioned it. if you did have you progressed? for me the best way to increase strength and muscle and the ability to eat more carbs. i do 3 sets of 20 reps - the first set of 20 should be all I can do with out cheating. rest 2 minutes do another set of 20 - if you cant do 20 stop before you have to cheat. rest 2 minutes do as much as you can do. each time i did this i notice I was able to increase a few reps on the set i could not complete. until i can easily do the 3 sets of 20 with the same weight. mind you I am starting over now and only doing 1 set of each for 6 weeks then 2 sets of each for 6 weeks and finally 3 sets of each.
>and changing my > eating habits. I absolutely do not want to rely on meds for > controlling my diabetes. either did I and now I am med free.
A neighbour of mine relies on his diabetic
> prescription to 'control' his diabetes. He eats pasta, pizza, chips > and soft drinks. I don't know..... when i was doing the 3 sets of 20 - all those things were easy to eat. except non diet soft drinks - i just like diet soda more now. but even tho my meter says I can - when I am working out i like to show what i do and things like fatty pizza take away the results ( for me ). i never cook meat in my sauce any more :(.
> Not me, I cut out all those foods. and working very hard to eat > sensibly.
:)
> Average day's diet: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > or a bowl of Special K carb fit > or yogurt and berries 6 inches of banana is a serving for me - bananas that are a little green are a better choice for me and i stay away from them once they turn brown.
> Lunch > a pumpernickel sandwich, salad, veggies to nibble on > or a low carb TV dinner on my diet i would have the 1 slice of pumpernickel if its 15 carbs and save the other slice for 2 1/2 hours later. but thats when i am on my diet the dietitan gave me.
> Supper > A salad, with some proteins like tuna or eggs or chicken [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >>your bg range. Start looking at what changes you can make to >>diet and exercise. Alan S - 28 Aug 2005 02:59 GMT >As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago >and now my BG's have been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5. My >question is when can I start testing certain foods, I'm thinking >that maybe my blood has still too much glucose (glucose toxicity) >so I'm wondering that maybe at the stage I'm at now my BG will spike >more readily. Don't know just thinking out loud. Hi Robert
By now you have read Jennifer's excellent advice at http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm
Read it again, many of your questions will be answered there.
Basically, test at your peak post-meal timing, review the meal if it was high, change it next time to try to improve the result, and keep doing that over and over until you meet your goals.
When I was at the stage you are at, I tried to make sure I didn't go over 8(145) at the one hour test (after my last bite). As time went on and I improved, I re-set that goal to 7(126).
I didn't always succeed, but gradually it became easier and easier to meet the goals.
Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
 Signature Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:21 GMT Thanks Alan, that's my goal.
See ya mate! Robert Dion
>>As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago >>and now my BG's have been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5. My [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. Vicki Beausoleil - 28 Aug 2005 06:27 GMT > As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and now my BG's have > been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5. My question is when can I start testing certain [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Robert Dion A word about the Dreamfields. Some people, myself included, find they spike long after the meal. I spike at about 5 hours. Apparently this is caused by more lower gut digestion, which varies in people. The company's website also says that the pasta may not be suitable for those with very high insulin resistance. I don't have insulin resisitance, so I guess I'm a low-gut digester.
Also, don't cook the Dreamfields pasta any longer than suggested on the label. Al dente is cooked enough. Leftovers seem to not digest the same as freshly cooked pasta. Try it first with a sauce that's low in fat, the fat in a sauce will change how it is digested.
Hope it works for you, it didn't for me. I 'cut' my rare meals of regular pasta now with lightly cooked broccoli, usually about 1 part pasta to 4 or 5 parts broccoli. Spaghetti sauce on broccoli is good!
It's great to hear you're doing so well, Robert. Keep up the good work!
Vicki
Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:33 GMT Thanks Vicky, my nutritionist insisted quite heavily on cooking pasta 'al dente'. I mentionned Dreamfields to a diabetic friend and he's on the lookout. What I intend to do with the Dreamfields pasta is to wait 'till I get a good reading and eat the cooked pasta as is, then test.
Thanks Vicky Robert Dion
>> As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and now my BG's have >> been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5. My question is when can I start testing certain [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > >Vicki Thomas Muffaletto - 31 Aug 2005 14:34 GMT > Thanks Vicky, my nutritionist insisted quite heavily on cooking pasta > 'al dente'. that is very true Robert - even with rice the less you cook it the better. tell you the truth i now like whole wheat pasta more than i do the regular pasta. and that is not just a eat healthy sales pitch. i really do like it more now.
I mentionned Dreamfields to a diabetic friend and he's on
> the lookout. What I intend to do with the Dreamfields pasta is to > wait 'till I get a good reading and eat the cooked pasta as is, then [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> >>Vicki None Given - 31 Aug 2005 17:31 GMT > Thanks Vicky, my nutritionist insisted quite heavily on cooking pasta > 'al dente'. I mentionned Dreamfields to a diabetic friend and he's on > the lookout. What I intend to do with the Dreamfields pasta is to > wait 'till I get a good reading and eat the cooked pasta as is, then > test. Test for several hours, 3, 4, 5, to be sure, some people get a rise much later than regular pasta, others little rise at all.
 Signature No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes
Vicki Beausoleil - 31 Aug 2005 19:03 GMT > Thanks Vicky, my nutritionist insisted quite heavily on cooking pasta > 'al dente'. I mentionned Dreamfields to a diabetic friend and he's on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks Vicky > Robert Dion Check Loblaws. They're the only ones in my area that carry it. It's imported by Unico, so someone should have it.
If you can't find it, ask your friendly grocery store manager.
HTH
Vicki
Vicki
Nicky - 28 Aug 2005 21:10 GMT > As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and now > my BG's have > been fluctuating between 6.3 - 8.5. My question is when can I start > testing certain > foods, Now! You'll get valuable data right away. You might get less of a spike when your glucose toxicity is less, but the pattern will be the same.
Nicky.
 Signature A1c 10.5/5.6/<6 T2 DX 05/2004 1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine 95/75/72Kg
Robert Dion - 31 Aug 2005 02:33 GMT Thanks Nicky Robert Dion
>> As you know I am a newbie and I've started meds about a month ago and now >> my BG's have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Nicky. Thomas Muffaletto - 31 Aug 2005 15:54 GMT don't forget there are lots of low carb veggies you can add to help fill you up. for me I like to use about 6 baby carrots ( carrots are not low carb ) and as much broccoli as I can stand. there are plenty other low carb veggies that taste great roasted. I am a believer in portion control - I find when I eat large meals no matter what type I get more hungry. I also like adding that fake butter - butter buds I sprinkle it on corn on the carb ( I usually have 1 small ear about 15 carbs) and get my fat from something more healthy. I must admit I usually end up with 6 almonds for my fat. on Sundays when I get the BBQ going - I usually skip the serving of fat and well im sure the porterhouse steak I had last Sunday had enough. and I also roasted a bunch of veggies. o I also grilled a red snapper stuffed will lemon. do you have a stationary bike or other cardio machine? I think that is weapon #1. then comes strength training - o yea along with proper diet :).
this is what usually works for me when I am not working out - when I am working out I can eat more. I am still having a hard time getting motivated to do the kind of light work out I am doing now. but almost 3 years ago when first diagnosed I couldn't walk 1 or 2 blocks with out having to stop cause of the pain in my ankle. I find nutritional information on packages to be wrong when they mention something like ( about 15 pieces ) I usually go by the weight.
 Signature Tom Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts... Your American Diabetes Association http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index Pictures of My motorcycle and I think 2 of my doggies. http://www.adventurseofvtx1300c.com.50megs.com/photo.html
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