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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / April 2008noble and high noble metals?
What are considered noble metals, and what are considered high noble metals, as far as material to be used in dental crowns? (as listed in my dental insurance policy) What is the disadvantage of using these materials, instead of gold? Thank you. > What are considered noble metals, and what are considered high noble metals, > as far as material to be used in dental crowns? (as listed in my dental [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thank you. This is insurance talk, and while each company may have a distinct definition for what constitutes "noble" and "high noble", there is no industry standard that I know of. The noble metals used commonly in dentistry are gold, platinum, and palladium. Pure gold is almost never used in dentistry, as it's too soft to cast. An old method of filling is called "direct gold" or "gold foil" and this is almost pure gold, but this can pretty much be ignored for insurance purposes. My understanding is that "high noble" is an alloy that is primarily noble metal--ie: over 50% gold and/or platinum and/or palladium. But don't quote me on that. ;-) Steve  SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > This is insurance talk, and while each company may have a distinct > definition for what constitutes "noble" and "high noble", there is no [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Steve Thanks for the info, Steve. When one normally gets a gold crown, then, since you write that pure gold is almost never used, what is the combination used in that case? How does that differ from the "high noble" designation, which you write is over 50% gold? Is there much difference between the two in how the crown holds up? Have there been any negative health effects from using the "high noble" metals instead of "gold"? I ask because the insurance coverage for crowns, with a co-pay from me, is for "noble or high noble" metals. The dentist says that is for the "basic" material, if I want gold crowns there is a high upgrade fee he adds to that, almost doubling the amount. (As it is for a four crown-bridge, the price difference would be significant.) Could my dentist possibly be mistaken--if "high noble" includes over 50% gold, and pure gold is never used anyhow, is a "high noble" crown basically the same as a "gold crown"? HMO or PPO ! ! ! ! >> This is insurance talk, and while each company may have a distinct >> definition for what constitutes "noble" and "high noble", there is no [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > gold, and pure gold is never used anyhow, is a "high noble" crown > basically the same as a "gold crown"? > HMO or PPO ! ! ! ! That question doesn't relate to my question at all, regarding what is considered "high noble metal" (in terms of a crown or bridge), and how that might differ or be the same as the material used in a "gold crown". My dental insurance is a DHMO (United Concordia), but I don't see that as relevant to my question. >>> This is insurance talk, and while each company may have a distinct >>> definition for what constitutes "noble" and "high noble", there is no [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> gold, and pure gold is never used anyhow, is a "high noble" crown >> basically the same as a "gold crown"? Bingo ! Give Amatus a cigar. >> HMO or PPO ! ! ! ! > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >>> gold, and pure gold is never used anyhow, is a "high noble" crown >>> basically the same as a "gold crown"? Our Amatus smokes??????? Tell us it isn't so ...... ;-) Webby > Bingo ! Give Amatus a cigar. > > >> HMO or PPO ! ! ! ! I know, I know... metaphorically speaking ... Webby ;-) > Our Amatus smokes??????? Tell us it isn't so ...... > ;-) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Webby ;-) BIO2000 gold used for porcelain is 24K. but this stuff is very delicate to work with. If the technician drops it, it will dent and he will have to start over. High nobel is 75% or 14K gold=type3 gold SemiPrecious is white gold about 12K 50%gold=type4 gold. There is a yellow gold of this category depends whether there is more palladium/ platinum vs gold that gives the colour. nobel is somewhere in between can be white or yellow gold. non precious is all nickel and other metals of no value this is what HMO crowns are made from. >High nobel is 75% or 14K gold=type3 gold High Nobel ? Is that when Alfred blows up ? 75% Au is 18K. Type III refers to hardness, not Au content. Believe high noble is 60% or higher Au content. > Believe high noble is 60% or higher Au content. Close but not exactly. (At least according to the Identalloy folks) High Noble (HN) = Noble Metal Content >= 60%, Gold Content >= 40% Noble (N) = Noble Metal Content >= 25% Predominantly Base (PB) = Noble Metal Content < 25% From the bottom of the page at: http://www.identalloy.org/ Vaughn Here are some example Identalloy certificates: http://www.tncdental.com/pdf/Identalloy%20Stickers.pdf Vaughn >Here are some example Identalloy certificates: >http://www.tncdental.com/pdf/Identalloy%20Stickers.pdf > >Vaughn Here's my fave high noble... http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg62/wubbab/DSC02915C.jpg > Here's my fave high noble... > > http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg62/wubbab/DSC02915C.jpg Oh I see those for sale on the Usenet all the time. Just search for titles that contain the words "Rolex, cheap, China, wholesale". Vaughn >> Here's my fave high noble... >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Vaughn Almost forgot to reply. Sure, that's what I got ! An el cheapo imitation Chinex. With cubic zirconias too boot !!! 8^]] http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg62/wubbab/DSC02876crop.jpg Maybe you like this one better: My 1984 TT DJ <two tone date just> Graduation gift from my father. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg62/wubbab/DSC02863C.jpg Enjoy, timezone.com is interesting place. > Sure, that's what I got ! An el cheapo imitation Chinex. > With cubic zirconias too boot !!! 8^]] [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg62/wubbab/DSC02863C.jpg Nice! You did better than me. I think I got a free meal for my graduation gift. Vaughn >> Sure, that's what I got ! An el cheapo imitation Chinex. >> With cubic zirconias too boot !!! 8^]] [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Vaughn Also got a free meal too. Icing on the cake ? I cherish my DJ and will never part with it. It's been serviced a few times, though some may think the repairs and parts are costly, it's worth every last red cent to me. Even though our American Penny is Cu plated Zn. It was such a weird day, would happily relate the story in person over a fine glass of scotch, and would want AC present. It would be a fine time for all. We would also partake of a fine meal together. Would also be *extremely* nice if SB would grace us with his presence. How about it dudes ? >>> Sure, that's what I got ! An el cheapo imitation Chinex. >>> With cubic zirconias too boot !!! 8^]] [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > How about it dudes ? I would love to do it sometime, but this year has been rough. Feel free to e-mail if you need my weasely excuses which shouldn't hold water. Steve >> We would also partake of a fine meal together. >> Would also be *extremely* nice if SB would grace us with his presence. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Steve Not sure what exactly you mean by "rough". My idea would be to agree on a particular CE course that we could attend together. NYC is not out of the question for me, but Vegas would be nice <hint, hint> Chicago ? Atlanta ? Miami ? Tampa ? >NYC is not out of the question for me, but Vegas would >be nice <hint, hint> Chicago ? Atlanta ? Miami ? Tampa ? You should have been at the Hinman. It was really exciting. <G> WE should keep our eyes open for a Fall date in Solana, CA Signature/ Amatus / > >>> We would also partake of a fine meal together. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > NYC is not out of the question for me, but Vegas would > be nice <hint, hint> Chicago ? Atlanta ? Miami ? Tampa ? When and where? Signature/ Amatus / > >>> Sure, that's what I got ! An el cheapo imitation Chinex. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > How about it dudes ? > When and where? I'm going to San Antone this fall. :-) Steve Date? Signature/ Amatus / >> When and where? > > I'm going to San Antone this fall. > :-) > Steve ADA Annual Convention Oct. 16-19. Don't know what days I'll actually be there yet, but I anticipate 15th-20th. D > Date? >> When and where? > >I'm going to San Antone this fall. >:-) >Steve Kewl, I'll second that. >When and where? At the rate airlines are cancelling flights, *when* is indeed the question ! > At the rate airlines are cancelling flights, > *when* is indeed the question ! This too shall pass. Vaughn >> At the rate airlines are cancelling flights, >> *when* is indeed the question ! > > This too shall pass. > >Vaughn As will we all... > On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:41:59 GMT, "Vaughn Simon" > As will we all... How frighteningly true! Due to recent events at work, I am facing imminent retirement. One can't look retirement in the eyes without contemplating the end game. Vaughn >> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:41:59 GMT, "Vaughn Simon" > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Vaughn I assumed you hadn't planned to retire soon? Hope it works out, whether you seek work again or don't. Me? I have a lot of teachers in my practice who retire at 55 on full pension if they have 30 years in. I figure if I can be propped up at my chair, I'll still be working at 80. Steve > I assumed you hadn't planned to retire soon? I was kinda planning on three or four more years. Perhaps I would have stretched it longer than that if nobody noticed. I have had the same employer for 38 years. > Hope it works out, whether you seek work again or don't. I will seek work presently but it will be something low stress, friendly and yes, probably low pay. The main purpose of the job will not be the money. For example; my father retired as a fairly well-paid craftsman at U of Mich. and ended up working as a delivery boy at a dental lab until his 80's. He loved driving around town and schmoozing with all of the ladies in the dentist's offices. It kept him going. > Me? I have a lot of teachers in my practice who retire at 55 on full pension > if they have 30 years in. I figure if I can be propped up at my chair, I'll > still be working at 80. There is much to be said for that. I have always believed that there are two ways to live a long, healthy life. One of them is to retire young so you can figure out how to do it properly and stay relevent. The other is to work until the day you die. The worse possible situation is to retire at 65 and then sit down in your easy chair to wait for the grim reaper. I have been eligible to retire from my job for the last 8 years or so. The smart thing to do back then would have been to take the money and start another career, but I already had a perfectly good, fairly well paying, secure job that I am good at and happen to love. How many people get that deal? How could I leave something like that? Vaughn >> I assumed you hadn't planned to retire soon? > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Vaughn Understood. Hope you find something satisfying that meets your needs. Steve Hi Vaughn ! Well if my Dad is anyone to compare to, he has been having a GRAND time since retirement in 1990. Good luck on what ever you end up doing next. Signature/ Amatus / > >> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:41:59 GMT, "Vaughn Simon" [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Vaughn >> Believe high noble is 60% or higher Au content. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Vaughn OK so *total* noble metal content >= 60% Knew I got that figure from somewhere. Thanks > OK so *total* noble metal content >= 60% > Knew I got that figure from somewhere. To be fair, that is only Identalloy's definition. Someone else (like the insurance industry) may have their own definition, which may also be perfectly valid. Vaughn >> High nobel is 75% or 14K gold=type3 gold > > High Nobel ? Is that when Alfred blows up ? smokes up >>> High nobel is 75% or 14K gold=type3 gold 14K gold is still only 58.3% Au ;-D >> High Nobel ? Is that when Alfred blows up ? > >smokes up In article <tmjiatroepidemic-4CE4AD.21333921032008@news.phx.highwinds-media.com>, > Our Amatus smokes??????? Tell us it isn't so ...... > ;-) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Webby ;-) Oops! Metaphorically??? I think the metaphor got away because on second look, I don't see it! ;-) Yep, sure does. Two stroke Saabs. <hehe> >Our Amatus smokes??????? Tell us it isn't so ...... >;-) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Webby ;-) True > Yep, sure does. Two stroke Saabs. <hehe> > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >>Webby ;-) > Our Amatus smokes??????? Tell us it isn't so ...... > ;-) Only after rubbing my hands together really fast. > > Our Amatus smokes??????? Tell us it isn't so ...... > > ;-) > > Only after rubbing my hands together really fast. ;-) Web. Prefer a nice glass of Scotch. Sipping some "basic" stuff right now. > Bingo ! Give Amatus a cigar. > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >>>> gold, and pure gold is never used anyhow, is a "high noble" crown >>>> basically the same as a "gold crown"? > "Amatus Cremona" > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > My dental insurance is a DHMO (United Concordia), but I don't see that as > relevant to my question. Maybe it is technically not the answer to your specific question. It *IS* the reason you are having this conversation with your dentist. People often believe insurance is insurance, and dental treatment is dental treatment. Nothing could be further from the truth. HMO plans have discounted fees that only cover certain types of treatment. Any 'options' can get tacked onto your bill at whatever rate the dentists feels he can get away with. I will not sign up for HMO plans because I will not play this game with my patients' well being. I use high noble metal in all crowns, period. No hidden fees, and no cheap crap going into anyones mouth because they won't buy any 'options'. 'Course my fees are higher than the *BASE* fees quoted by the HMOs. Sometimes you get what you pay for, but sometimes you get less. D >> This is insurance talk, and while each company may have a distinct >> definition for what constitutes "noble" and "high noble", there is no [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > gold, and pure gold is never used anyhow, is a "high noble" crown basically > the same as a "gold crown"? I would consider "gold crown" and "high noble" crowns as equivalent. Most casting golds are about 70% gold, give or take. To complicate matters, porcelain fused to metal crowns may be non-precious, semiprecious, or precious metal. Most insurance plans allow only a small premium for precious as opposed to non-precious crowns. Because the price of gold is up about $1K/ ounce, there should be a significant difference in price between a precious and non-precious crown. Gold alloys are easier to machine and adjust than non-precious. Some will disagree with me, but non-precious alloys which tend to be essentially stainless steel, hold up just fine. There are problems with some alloys however. A regular poster here is actively trying to educate dentists about the use of beryllium in some casting alloys. Beryllium is light and stiff; however, its presence in a serious potential hazard to the technicians who have to work with it. In my opinion it should never be used. With regard to your specific case, you should ask the dentist exactly what he uses in his crowns if you are concerned. Steve Thanks again for the informative reply. :-) So, the "basic" material is mostly stainless steel? For people with sensitive teeth, could that be a problem? You write about the negative effect of beryllium in some of the "basic" alloys, on the health of the dentist, dental workers, etc. What about on the patient? Can any of that material seep into the patient's blood stream? How about mercury? Is there any of that in the "basic" alloy, as there are in amalgam fillings? Thanks again for your informative replies, Dr. Bornfeld. >>> This is insurance talk, and while each company may have a distinct >>> definition for what constitutes "noble" and "high noble", there is no [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Steve >Thanks again for the informative reply. :-) > >So, the "basic" material is mostly stainless steel? For people with >sensitive teeth, could that be a problem? No, non-precious dental casting alloys generally contain Ni, Cr, Co. No steel, which is specially processed Fe. >You write about the negative effect of beryllium in some of the "basic" >alloys, on the health of the dentist, dental workers, etc. What about on the >patient? Can any of that material seep into the patient's blood stream? Nope, the hazard is in Be vapor and inhaled particulate matter. Mostly affects dental laboratory personnel that cast and polish the alloys containing Be. >How about mercury? Is there any of that in the "basic" alloy, as there are >in amalgam fillings? No. He meant "Base", as in: predominantly base metal ie. doesn't contain Au, Pt, or Pd > Thanks again for the informative reply. :-) > > So, the "basic" material is mostly stainless steel? For people with > sensitive teeth, could that be a problem? Certainly no more than gold. I have only one crown in my mouth. It is a gold crown. The tooth had fractured very near the pulp. It was sensitive to cold for several months, but no longer. I still see stars if I hit the crown with a fork. This would not have been a problem if I'd gotten a ceramic or porcelain fused to metal crown. However, it's not a big problem as it is. > You write about the negative effect of beryllium in some of the "basic" > alloys, on the health of the dentist, dental workers, etc. What about on the > patient? Can any of that material seep into the patient's blood stream? No. The danger is in inhalation of the dust generated by grinding. It is not soluble in the mouth. > How about mercury? Is there any of that in the "basic" alloy, as there are > in amalgam fillings? No. There were reports of some lead found in some dental alloys, but I've never heard of this in any alloys produced in the West. > Thanks again for your informative replies, Dr. Bornfeld. You're welcome! Steve OK ! Your entire posting relates to your insurasnce scheme, NOT to your material of choice. Your dental office is trying to make up for insurance reimbursement which does not cover the cost of his hourly overhead to have you in his office. The extra fee for higher gold content is merely a scheme to get more cash from a source that *might* be allowed by your insurance company. This is a very common "trick" in HMO and PPO offices. High-Noble crown has the highest percentage of gold in it we can use in dentistry. No such thing as upgrading above that. > Thanks again for the informative reply. :-) > [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] >> >> Steve > OK ! > > Your entire posting relates to your insurasnce scheme, NOT to your > material of choice. Well, it relates to both. I saw the term in my booklet of insurance benefits, and wondered what it meant. So it does relate to insurance. However, it also relates to the materials, wanting to know what the term meant, and whether that is the same or different than a "gold crown". I think my question was answered, most thoroughly by Steve, but also below by you, that what is called a "gold crown" is basically the same as what the insurance booklet calls a "high noble" crown. My other question was--what would be considered the disadvantages of getting a crown in what is considered the "basic" material, i.e. "non-precious" metal. According to Dr. Bornfeld (Steve), if I read his replies correctly, not much disadvantage, may not last quite as long, but they still hold up well, and there are no negative health effects, or increased sensitivity, involved with using non-precious rather than precious metal in crowns. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Dr. Steve.) It is always good to hear different opinions. Do you (Amatus, I assume you're a dentist), and other dentists here, agree with the above statement, regarding non-precious crowns? Any other info on them? Your dental office is trying to make up for insurance > reimbursement which does not cover the cost of his hourly overhead to have > you in his office. The extra fee for higher gold content is merely a [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] >>> >>> Steve You have no idea what you are getting (for metal) beyond *possibly* being cheated. No such thing as an upgrade fee for a better metal. Each crown material has its own ADA Code. There is no upgrade beyond high-noble. This extra fee is a way of getting more money out of "someone" so that an HMO practice can stay in business. Signature/ Amatus / > >> OK ! [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] >>>> >>>> Steve (snip) > My other question was--what would be considered the disadvantages of getting > a crown in what is considered the "basic" material, i.e. "non-precious" [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > involved with using non-precious rather than precious metal in crowns. > (Correct me if I'm wrong, Dr. Steve.) Now that we've established (thanks to Newbie) that non-precious crown and bridge casting alloys are largely nickel, I can say that a significant number of people are sensitive to nickel. I have seen this personally on occasion. I have not ordinarily seen a real difference (as he apparently has) between the appearance of crowns that are porcelain fused to non-precious vs. high-noble metals. This may be a function of tooth preparation, skill of the lab, or even my aging eyes. ;-) What is also possible is that the dentist may use a completely different lab for managed care cases to save even more money. But I cannot say that I've seen any greater durability in high noble vs. base metal crowns and bridges. Steve > It is always good to hear different opinions. Do you (Amatus, I assume > you're a dentist), and other dentists here, agree with the above statement, [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] >>>> >>>> Steve >Gold alloys are easier to machine and adjust than non-precious. Some >will disagree with me, but non-precious alloys which tend to be >essentially stainless steel, hold up just fine. Yep non-precious alloy holds up just fine. (look like crap under porcelain IMO, but that's another discussion) Non-precious refers to Ni,Cr, Co alloys generally. However, Stainless Steel it ain't ! SS=Specially processed formulations/alloys of Fe. >> Gold alloys are easier to machine and adjust than non-precious. Some >> will disagree with me, but non-precious alloys which tend to be [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > However, Stainless Steel it ain't ! > SS=Specially processed formulations/alloys of Fe. You are right. This is information I should have known. I know that 30 years ago I would actually see green lines at the margins of some non-precious alloys, and assumed this ended when nickel was removed. But a quick google search reveals that nickel is the biggest component of most, followed by Co, Mo, and Cr. Steve >>> Gold alloys are easier to machine and adjust than non-precious. Some >>> will disagree with me, but non-precious alloys which tend to be [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Steve It's copper oxide that is green. Believe you have a little statue that shows this. >>>> Gold alloys are easier to machine and adjust than non-precious. Some >>>> will disagree with me, but non-precious alloys which tend to be [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Believe you have a little statue that shows this. Right here in my pocket! Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 [clip] > It's copper oxide that is green. > > Believe you have a little statue that shows this. Hey!! Don't forget that we have a smaller version of that little statue right here in Vegas. ;-) And newbie, thanks for sending along that article/magazine. Very interesting, indeed. Webby >[clip] >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Webby Was wondering if you recieved it. Yep seen the LV knock off, have also seen the real one in NYC. Guess it's time to give France a visit. Not. > >[clip] > >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Guess it's time to give France a visit. Not. Just head over here... we have one of those in pint-size too! ;-) (Yes, the mail arrived while I was in SF. Thanks again for taking time to send it my way.) Web. >> This is insurance talk, and while each company may have a distinct >> definition for what constitutes "noble" and "high noble", there is no [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Could my dentist possibly be mistaken Very seriously doubt it. >--if "high noble" includes over 50% >gold, and pure gold is never used anyhow, is a "high noble" crown basically >the same as a "gold crown"? Think we went round and round with you on your misappropriated semantics not very long ago. A "full cast gold crown" is made from a gold alloy. Type I, II, III, and IV dental gold alloys are used, with Type III predominating single unit crowns. 24K, .9999 Fine, and "pure" gold are equivalent terms. Too soft for dental crowns, it can be cast however. 'noble' and 'high noble' are just terms used to indicate the relative gold content of the alloys used. They are still both colloquially termed "gold crowns". If you want to know more try looking up: Dental Casting Alloys There is way too much information to cover here, even if I was inclined to do so. > What are considered noble metals, and what are considered high noble metals, > as far as material to be used in dental crowns? (as listed in my dental > insurance policy) > > What is the disadvantage of using these materials, instead of gold? There is the issue of whether gum sticks to the crown or recedes---that depends on the material and is most important on front teeth. Gum loves porcelain and hates nickel. You should avoid getting cheap---hopefully the crowns are going to be in your mouth for a lifetime. Don't underestimate the effects of people seeing big hunks of metal every time you open your mouth. Consider porcelain-covered gold for back teeth, porcelain for front teeth. Take care of your remaining dental assets so you won't have to make decisions like this in the future. >> What are considered noble metals, and what are considered high noble >> metals, as far as material to be used in dental crowns? (as listed in my [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Take care of your remaining dental assets so you won't have to make > decisions like this in the future. Thanks for the advice. My gums are very receded, a major problem in my mouth. I had gum surgery by a periodontist (taking a piece of tissue from the top of the mouth, and sewing it to the gums, to strengthen them). (That doesn't cover the recession, but is supposed to strengthen the gums.) The place in question is actually not just one crown, but a bridge. And the teeth there are very mobile. So, the dentist says it might not last very long, in any case. (There is one missing tooth, but he recommends a four tooth bridge, rather than the usual three, for increased stability.) (I looked into the implant thing, but the CT scan of my jaw showed not enough bone there for an implant. So a bridge or dentures are the only option, and I would hate dentures!) It unfortunately doesn't sound like it will last a lifetime, in any case. As far as looks, it is in the back, so I don't think it would be visually noticeable. People (other than dentists;-) ) don't usually peer into the back of one's mouth. How about an implant after grafting? Bridges can put a lot of strain on the teeth holding them in place. Weak teeth can easily be lost this way. Signature/ Amatus / > >>> What are considered noble metals, and what are considered high noble [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > noticeable. People (other than dentists;-) ) don't usually peer into the > back of one's mouth. > How about an implant after grafting? > > Bridges can put a lot of strain on the teeth holding them in place. Weak > teeth can easily be lost this way. Thanks for the suggestion. As I said, I went to an implant specialist two years ago, he did a CT scan of my jaw, and said not enough bone there for implants. He did not suggest grafting, or even mention it, so I assume that it isn't an option with my mouth. Definitely, if it were possible, implants would be a far better and more permanent solution, than a bridge over weak mobile teeth with highly recessed gums. >> Don't underestimate the effects of people >>> seeing big hunks of metal every time you open your mouth. Consider >>> porcelain-covered gold for back teeth, porcelain for front teeth. Actually, on checking with insurance today, even their basic (i.e., non-precious metal) crowns, for the basic co-pay, include porcelain covering. So, the metal would be porcelain-covered in any case. Not in an HMO Signature/ Amatus / > >>> Don't underestimate the effects of people [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > non-precious metal) crowns, for the basic co-pay, include porcelain > covering. So, the metal would be porcelain-covered in any case. > Not in an HMO Yup, I specifically asked today, and that's what the rep said. The given co-pays, for either base metal or "high noble" crowns, include porcelain covering. >>>> Don't underestimate the effects of people >>>>> seeing big hunks of metal every time you open your mouth. Consider [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> non-precious metal) crowns, for the basic co-pay, include porcelain >> covering. So, the metal would be porcelain-covered in any case. What I meant was that the office would not make a crown with porcelain on it since the lab fee will be higher. They will attempt to charge you some sort of "extra fee" to get porcelain on it. Signature/ Amatus / > >> Not in an HMO [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>> non-precious metal) crowns, for the basic co-pay, include porcelain >>> covering. So, the metal would be porcelain-covered in any case.
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