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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / January 2008

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Root Canal and longevity survey

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Robert - 20 Jan 2008 03:48 GMT
I'm reposting this question and directing it to the non-professionals who
frequent this list. The previous thread made it clear that most of the
professionals have no interest in this subject. In fact, the lack of
scientific and intellectual curiosity was a bit scary.  One or two of the
pros responded in a scientific way (e.g., George), but most were just
dismissive of my even asking the question.

If you know any 80 and 90 year-olds (even centenarians) in your circle of
friends and family who are in good health, and you feel comfortable with
this, ask them if they currently have teeth that have been treated with root
canal, and please respond in this thread.

If you want to browbeat me for asking the question, please respond in the
original thread.
Steven Fawks - 20 Jan 2008 14:13 GMT
> If you know any 80 and 90 year-olds (even centenarians) in your circle of
> friends and family who are in good health, and you feel comfortable with
> this, ask them if they currently have teeth that have been treated with root
> canal, and please respond in this thread.

My dad is 86 and had a root canaled lower cuspid for over 20 years.
It fractured at the gumline a while ago and I had to extract it.
He is doing quite well.  He mows the family cemetery in the summer
and raises a big garden with his wife.

My uncle (my mother's older brother) is over ninety.  I did a root
canal for him about 15 years ago (he had worn his lower teeth down
so badly that one abcessed).  He is also ambulatory and has a pretty
sharp mind for his age (and still has that tooth).

If I went to the office and searched the records I think I could find
a couple hundred more.

My mom died at the age of 67 from alzhiemers.  No root canals though.

In 28 years of dentistry, I have seen no connection between root canals
and failing health.

Have a good day,
Steve
Robert - 20 Jan 2008 21:56 GMT
>> If you know any 80 and 90 year-olds (even centenarians) in your circle of
>> friends and family who are in good health, and you feel comfortable with
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Have a good day,
> Steve

Contrary to what others were saying, I wasn't making any premise. I was
simply asking questions.

Thanks for the response. That is the kind of thing I was looking for and not
abuse for asking the question.
Robert - 21 Jan 2008 14:51 GMT
> In 28 years of dentistry, I have seen no connection between root canals
> and failing health.

Thanks again for the reply, and I'm sure you mean well, but I think there is
simply not enough data to make that kind of claim. How would you possibly
know that? I think more reasearch needs to be done. Considering that I was
kneecapped by others here for even asking the question, that research is
unlikely to come out of the dental profession or the ADA.

I'm guessing that no official stats are kept on people receiving root
canals? Probably the only people who could amass the necessary data are
forensic patholgists.
Amatus Cremona - 21 Jan 2008 15:10 GMT
NC

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>>
>> In 28 years of dentistry, I have seen no connection between root canals
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> canals? Probably the only people who could amass the necessary data are
> forensic patholgists.
Steven Bornfeld - 21 Jan 2008 15:41 GMT
>> In 28 years of dentistry, I have seen no connection between root canals
>> and failing health.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> canals? Probably the only people who could amass the necessary data are
> forensic patholgists.

    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not
aware that dentistry is continually under assault from some parts of the
alternative health crowd in several areas.  In no particular order, they
are:  use of amalgam, use of x-rays, use of root canals, failure to
acknowledge putative conditions such as NICO, etc. etc.
    It is totally understandable that a new procedure should be held up to
scrutiny.  But after many years of having to defend against charges of
conspiracy to hide facts that much of what we do is harmful, we get a
bit defensive.
    No procedure involving the human body is completely risk-free.  Not
only that, but procedures change and improve over time as more data
comes in and better or more effective or safer procedures come into use.
    One of the areas in flux right now is the clinical judgment about just
which teeth should be saved, and which should be lost.  The recent
popularity of implants is changing previous clinical judgments in this
area.  This is as it should be.  However, there is a tendency to view
newer procedures as "breakthroughs" and objectively superior.  This is
seldom the case--they are almost always judgment calls.  In this area
for example I hear people asking how long crowns last as compared to
implants.  This is not a question that can be answered
quantitatively--not only because the studies haven't been done, but
because case selection is always a judgment call.  In the end, we don't
want to know how long implants last--we want to know how long YOUR
implant will last.  That's why when I hear people tell others
sight-unseen on this ng that you're better off having the tooth
extracted and an implant placed in lieu of root canal and crown, because
the average crown lasts 10 years, because all root canals eventually
fail, and because implants are forever, I really have to shake my head.
    Am I making sense at all here?

Steve
Fran L - 21 Jan 2008 16:50 GMT
Robert, I'm a non-professional here. I don't see how there can be
anything proven comparing the two groups. If someone has 8 root canals
and dies at 70, how can we know if that's attributed to its effects
(toxic, I guess you're implying) or their heart or other failing organ?
Maybe their heart was just bad and there's no way of knowing what would
have happened if they did not have root canals. Just like when someone
takes a vitamin for 3 months and something improves...it might have
without it...it's just speculation.

There are so many variables, I just don't see how one can ever prove a
correlation. If you ever find such a study, I'd love to see it posted
here.
Steven Bornfeld - 21 Jan 2008 21:58 GMT
> Robert, I'm a non-professional here. I don't see how there can be
> anything proven comparing the two groups. If someone has 8 root canals
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Just off the top of my head--root canals and other significant
dentistry are expensive.  They also indicate a willingness to accept
treatment for dental disease.  It seems reasonable to me that a random
population of people who'd had root canals would be both wealthier and
more likely to care for their medical as well as dental needs.  I would
guess it likely this group would be expected to live longer than those
who (for any number of reasons) do NOT have any endodontically-treated
teeth.
    There are many studies that have this kind of problem--so-called
"confounding variables".  Some claim to adjust for them, but usually
when I see an adjustment for these variables red lights and loud bells
usually go off in my head.  It's just too hard to know exactly what's
going on.

Steve
Amatus Cremona - 21 Jan 2008 22:57 GMT
Don't forget that you are more likely to live longer with teeth than
without.

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>> Robert, I'm a non-professional here. I don't see how there can be
>> anything proven comparing the two groups. If someone has 8 root canals
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Steve
Robert - 22 Jan 2008 20:17 GMT
> "Fran L"  wrote in message
> news:21163-4794CD45-779@storefull-3113.bay.webtv.net...
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> takes a vitamin for 3 months and something improves...it might have
> without it...it's just speculation.

> There are so many variables, I just don't see how one can ever prove a
> correlation. If you ever find such a study, I'd love to see it posted
> here.

You are absolutely correct, that no one can know. But much of that has to do
with the fact that very little data seems to have been collected. Don't
forget, the ADA is primarily an advocacy organization, not a "health"
organization. There are so many livelihoods dependent on the status quo,
that any questioning of the status quo will be met with understandable
antagonism.  Dentists are only human, too. :)

And to be fair, this kind of research takes compiling data over long periods
of time. You can't wait for the results of a ten year study to decide what
to do about someone's abscess.  But why can't they start doing research now
to help people ten years down the road?

Based on my research, one thing that there is ZERO question about is that
over time root canals leak into the blood system.  What the implications are
of that are is what no one really knows.
Jan Drew - 26 Jan 2008 00:24 GMT
>> "Fran L"  wrote in message
>> news:21163-4794CD45-779@storefull-3113.bay.webtv.net...
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> are
> of that are is what no one really knows.

Incorrect.

http://drkulacz.net/contents/info/article/article_04.htm

Root Canals and Cancer
Josef M Issels, MD was an oncologist (cancer specialist) who viewed cancer
as a general disease rather than an isolated circumscribed ailment.

Dr. Issels based his conclusions on the knowledge gathered from holistic
physicians, including those of prior generations, and on his own knowledge
that the general health of the whole person is equally important as the
tumor itself. He reasoned that the previous damage of the defense mechanism
of the person first enabled the development of the tumor.

Most of the cells in our body are constantly dividing creating new cells.
The rate of cell proliferation and cell death is carefully controlled by our
DNA. However, sometimes cells divide at a faster rate than is desirable and
may become malignant (cancer). This daily random generation of malignant
cells represents a chronic challenge to our body. Fortunately our immune
system usually recognizes these malignant cells and destroys them before
they develop into a cancerous tumor.

But what if our immune system has been compromised with a chronic infection
such as a root canal? The immune system may not be up to the task of
protecting the body from the constantly produced cancer cells. Genetic
susceptibility, toxin exposure and immune system exhaustion set the stage
for cancer development is susceptible tissues.

But aren't root canals harmless? NO! (see Rosenows work). Almost all root
canal teeth are infected. The mouth contains over 350 different bacteria.
These bacteria remain in the porous tubules of the root and continue to
grow. They can survive quite nicely in the warm, dark moist environment of
even the best treated root canal tooth. They now become a focus of
infection, free to disseminate bacteria and bacterial toxins to the rest of
the body for as long as the infected tooth is left in the mouth.

Dr. Issels found that 98% of all his adult cancer patients had two or more
root canal teeth!

Root canal teeth contain bacteria, These bacteria produce highly potent
toxins that can disseminate throughout the body.
What are these toxins? (see altcorp.com for current research on root canal
toxins)
One of the most dangerous are the thio-ethers (ex. Di-methyl sulfate). These
thio-ethers are not only structurally, but also in terms of effect, closely
related with nitrogen-lost and other "yellow cross" combat poison gases
which were employed during world war 1.

Why are the thio-ethers so toxic?
They are fat soluble and therefore concentrate in the lipid (fat) framework
of the cell, especially the mitochondria. (Mitochondria are the energy
producers of the cell. If the mitochondria are destroyed than the cell can
no longer make energy. This may also be a contributing factor in chronic
fatigue syndrome
They are very resistant to oxidation and can only gradually be detoxified
and may remain in the tissues for a long time. Therefore the continual
release of toxins can cause a an accumulation of toxins.
These toxins can block aerobic metabolism and force the cells to rely on
fermentation as a means of energy production (see altcorp.com. for a
detailed report on the inhibition of important body enzymes used in aerobic
metabolism). Cancer cell use fermentation their means of energy production.

This fermentation (anaerobic metabolism) causes the body to become more
acidic. Since the body strives to maintain a specific pH (acid-base balance)
any increase in acidity will precipitate a release of phosphate buffer from
the bone. Along with the phosphate comes calcium. This leads to too much
free excess calcium in the blood. One place the excess calcium is deposited
is tarter on the teeth. It can also be deposited inside the arteries
accelerating hardening of the arteries and it can be deposited in cancer
cells. You see the reason cancer shows up on an x-ray is due to
calcification in the cells. Normal soft tissue cells are not clearly visible
on x-ray because they do not contain calcium.

The root canal issue is both complex and simple at the same time. It is
complex because there are many biochemical processes that can be disrupted
by root canal teeth. It is simple because they should not be a treatment
option

I hope I have given you a brief insight to the complexity and interaction of
the human body. Please explore the information in the website links and
THINK! Don't rely on your dentist or physician for information on this
subject because most refuse to even look at the scientific evidence.

Remember, everything in the body is connected. Educate your self with
scientific evidence and good old fashioned common sense. Your health depends
upon it.

http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm

http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html

Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A
dead or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no
way of
removing the bacteria once they are in there.
Simplicio - 21 Jan 2008 21:11 GMT
On Jan 21, 10:41 am, Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>         I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not
> aware that dentistry is continually under assault from some parts of the
> alternative health crowd in several areas.  In no particular order, they
> are:  use of amalgam, use of x-rays, use of root canals, failure to
> acknowledge putative conditions such as NICO, etc. etc.

Dr. Bornfeld, I'm going to give you a severe scolding here. You know
darn well
that the concern is that "organized dentistry" does not even publish
the possible
dangers to the public. It's not even a question of the safety of
dental procedures/materials  on a statistical level. Also you have
falsely implied that it is the "alternative health crowd", who is
concernced with this. I am not from the alternative health crowd.
Where do you get that? If you hold yourself out the public as dental
professional and do these procedures, especailly on young kids and
teenagers you should, either thoroughly research the safety and or
existence of these dental conditions/procedures, or, alternatively
provide patients with a piece of paper giving them some warning or
idea of the controversy.

>         It is totally understandable that a new procedure should be held up to
> scrutiny.  But after many years of having to defend against charges of
> conspiracy to hide facts that much of what we do is harmful, we get a
> bit defensive.

And in all that time has any dental organization done any real
research in these
areas or provided patients with a simple piece of paper advising them
of adverse
health effects. The only example I can think of is the NIH study on
NICO, and that was done well outside of the normal funding channel
controlled essentially
by the ADA and dentists or organized dentistry, and undoubtedly done
by a few
researcher hungry for grant money. (By the way that study concluded
that NICO does exist). To date in my estimation, there has been no
quality large scale study i.e 1000+,5000+,10,0000 on the safety of
fillings or root canals attempt by the dental agency or the government
institutions they control. Fortunately this is not the case in Europe

>         No procedure involving the human body is completely risk-free.

Neither is any drug, but notice that drugs do, by law carry warning
labels. This
is a simple precaution that dentistry has avoided. And what's worse
the adverse
effect of a drug is unaviodable once the dose is taken. Imagine
leaving fillings
and rootcanals in patient for years without any indication of adverse
effects.
If I hadn't pulled my filling I'd be dead instead of writing highly
cogent posts
on the internet. But because giving me warning would "put my dentist
on
the defensive" a badly corroding Hg filling or root canal should be
left in the
patient indefinitely. Shame on the dental profession!
 
Steven Bornfeld - 21 Jan 2008 22:11 GMT
> Dr. Bornfeld, I'm going to give you a severe scolding here. You know
> darn well
> that the concern is that "organized dentistry" does not even publish
> the possible
> dangers to the public.

    Happy new year Clinton.  You give dentistry more credit than it's do by
calling it "organized".
    I understand where you're coming from.  I am not an expert in tort law,
but I do know that requiring drugs to pass muster with the FDA has not
prevented drugs with unacceptable side effects to slip through.  When
they're found (Phen-fen, Vioxx) the pharmaceutical companies are
liable--both civil liability and occasionally criminal liability.
    Dentistry is not immune to the legal process.  I see the dental
profession as being several magnitudes weaker in terms of political
influence than the pharmaceutical companies.  If someone can prove bad
intent on the part of the dental profession, I'm sure we'll all be rode
out of town on a rail.

Best,
Steve
Simplicio - 22 Jan 2008 00:57 GMT
On Jan 21, 5:11 pm, Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

> > Dr. Bornfeld, I'm going to give you a severe scolding here. You know
> > darn well
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> they're found (Phen-fen, Vioxx) the pharmaceutical companies are
> liable--both civil liability and occasionally criminal liability.

I do not know what is the latest with law suits against amalgam
manufacturers,
they have been sued several times (at least). I heard but don't know
for sure that one major amalgam manufacturer was successfully sued in
Europe. One problem with suing amalgam manufacturers in the US is that
it is incredibly expensive for an individual patient, wheras I think
that doctors who report adverse drug reactions make class action suits
easier. Imagine if the AMA claimed that "Vioxx could not cause serious
injury" even though many doctors felt it could, and the typical doctor
for no reason at all called a patient claiming injury from Vioxx a
"nut case".
It is also very hard to prove that Hg which is inhaled and absorbed
*beyond all doubt" caused a patients injuries to a jury of people with
normal scientific background. This is very similar to tobacco lawsuits
when companies  used money and seeming reasonable doubt about how
inhaled smoke could cause injury, along with highly paid "opposition
witnesses" who basiclly lied their a.ses off, just like the ADA
"experts" from the "research divisions" of the dental schools (in my
opinion),  to compile a winning record in court. Doesn't mean
cigarettes were safe.

What I say is if you know you are implanitng a device which may posion
a kid 10 years down the road, and you know, or organized dentistry
knows that due to the nature or how Hg is absorbed, it is very
difficult to track , does that make it right, because such a case is
harder to prove to a 12 person jury with an average sixth grade
education, many of whom may have failed basic chemistry but believe
"what the ADA says"? Your accountablility and disclosure should be in
direct proportion to the difficiulty in tracking the release of toxins
from you product to begin with, and your stature and trust in the
community should dictate the scruplousness with which you apply the
scientific method!, not used as a rational for further use, and lack
of disclosure! It is afterall dentists and manufacturers who created
the level of difficulty in determining the health impact of the
devices they use.

 Dentists themselves have also sued amalgam manufacturers, one case
was close in North Carolina a couple years ago, but the company argued
that it was impossible to tell whether Hg from their product or
another companies product caused the actual injury to the dentist
during office use. I heard the dentist was in pretty bad shape during
the trial. A lot of dental assistants have also claimed to have been
posioned. This shows you how twisted the case law is when it comes to
amalgam. and I have  to say judges in these cases, have acted pretty
spinless, perhaps feeling that they will not be reappointed to their
post if they are the ones who caused the publics favorite implant to
be banned from the market.

Remember how slavery was upheld again and again by case law and by
promient judges in the US courts? And as I pointed out it took decades
to get a win against the cigarette manufacturers. The bottom line is
that the court system itself is mainly a political, not a scientific
entity.

>         Dentistry is not immune to the legal process.  I see the dental
> profession as being several magnitudes weaker in terms of political
> influence than the pharmaceutical companies.

Actually the FDA division which regulates dentistry is run by
dentists.
It is called dental devices.
Imagine if the drug division of FDA had a separate approval section
for drugs
from Merck and that section was run by staff from Merck, that is how
much
politicial influence dentistry does have. Dentists also run NIDCR, the
government agency that does dental research. the political
influence of dentistry dwarfs that of the drug companies, largely
because
the public "trusts" dentists to regulate dentistry but won't tolerate
drug companies direct control of drug approval.

Legally dentists themselves have an incredible amount of legal and
political
protection compared to drug companies, mandatory arbitration laws
which
require other dentists approval for a lawsuit to go forward ,
precidents for "standard of care" and other legal protections make it
virtually impossible
to successfully sue dentists for the use of amalgam.

> If someone can prove bad
> intent on the part of the dental profession, I'm sure we'll all be rode
> out of town on a rail.
>
> Best,
> Steve
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 22 Jan 2008 14:28 GMT
> On Jan 21, 5:11 pm, Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> for no reason at all called a patient claiming injury from Vioxx a
> "nut case".

    Just one comment and I'm done.  I don't intend to change my view that
while I'm open to any and all clinical information whether it supports
my views or not, that this is not an appropriate forum for me to comment
on the political controversies related to dentistry.
    Vioxx was not intrinsically more or less likely to be blamed for health
events than is amalgam.  Safety and effectiveness studies were
submitted.  As reports were collected from various studies after
approval that showed an increased cardiovascular risk, Vioxx came under
further scrutiny.  The problem was that Merck's internal memos showed
that they were themselves aware that some of their own studies were
pointing the same way, and this information was not disclosed.
    Of course, clinical studies are much more likely to be conducted on a
new pharmaceutical than on a medical device or material that has been in
use 160 years.  But any doctor can report a suspected adverse reaction
to any material.  Since the primary toxic effects attributed to amalgam
are neurologic and renal, I would not expect dentists to report these
effects.
    It can be frustrating in this case--that the clinicians using the
suspect drug/device would not be expected to be the ones to see the
adverse effects.  But this happens, and I can think of one recent case
in point.  Millions of patients are now on medications called
bisphosphonates for treatment of osteoporosis.  A smaller number are on
intravenously-administered bisphosphonates, usually patients with cancer
metastatic to the bones--with the primary aim of preventing pathologic
fracture.  A small number of osteoporosis patients (and a much larger
proportion of cancer patients receiving injectable bisphosphonates)
develop osteonecrosis of the jaws.  You are not someone I have to
explain this to, but my dad's urologist, when questioned about how many
osteonecrosis of the jaw cases he had seen among his many prostate
cancer patients receiving IV bisphosphonates, he told me straight-faced
that he "hadn't seen any".  And why would he have been?  At that time he
seemed totally ignorant of this common sequellum.  Now it's a few years
later, and if any doctors are still ignorant of this phenomenon, the
lawyers certainly aren't.
    This doesn't mean bisphosphonates aren't used, but they are used with a
knowledge of their effects, and a conscious clinical decision that the
risk is warranted based on the need.  The neurologists and urologists
are going to have to step up to the plate and demonstrate the damage
done by amalgam.  Dentists have the responsibility to make clinical
decisions based on all of the best medical opinion out there, or we're
at legal risk.  The situation is no different than it is for any
potentially dangerous agent out there.

Good luck,
Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Simplicio - 22 Jan 2008 18:43 GMT
On Jan 22, 9:28 am, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
<bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 21, 5:11 pm, Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net>

>         Just one comment and I'm done.  I don't intend to change my view that
> while I'm open to any and all clinical information whether it supports
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> later, and if any doctors are still ignorant of this phenomenon, the
> lawyers certainly aren't.

>    Dentists have the responsibility to make clinical
> decisions based on all of the best medical opinion out there, or we're
> at legal risk.

Actually from what I have learned of the legal system they are not
(assuming they use the amalgam within the standard of care). In fact I
even came across an
appeals court decision in my state where the judge stated in his
opinion "No dentist can be charged for acting within the standard of
care followed by other dentists"

As you pointed out apparently recent legal thinking is that it should
be the manufacturers who take the legal responsability for dangerous
products. Case in
point , the quaids' whose twins were hurt by a drug are going after
the manufacturer not the hospital.

I'm not really sure what all the legal hurdles are for suing amalgam
manufacturer's, but I do believe that they know their product is
dangerous, and money obviously plays a huge factor (I've also been
told that suing the manufacturers is tremendously expensive)
Steven Fawks - 22 Jan 2008 02:38 GMT
> Dr. Bornfeld, I'm going to give you a severe scolding here.  

You sir, are no gentleman.

Steve
Dartos - 21 Jan 2008 20:14 GMT
If you reread my comment, you might want to rephrase yours.  I didn't
say that it was *impossible* for root canals to have any impact upon
patient health.  I simply stated that I haven't seen any connection
between endo and poor health in my experience.

That statement is a summation of *my* 28 years of dental practice.
It is entirely accurate to the best of my knowledge.  In the area of
statistical analysis, it would still only classify as 'anecdotal'.

Other areas that I observed have been pretty accurate.  Like smoking and
gum disease.  Didn't take a genius to figure that out, but it was a
long time becoming a documented connection between the two.

If there were a significant link between endo and health problems, I
think it would have been pretty easy to figure out by now.

Problems with root canals can happen, but rarely on a systemic scale.
Retreat the endo or extract the tooth, and everything is fine.

If you aren't a fan of root canals, it's okay by me.  Don't get one.
Have the tooth extracted and get an implant or some other prosthesis.
Same options that I give all of my patients.

D

>>In 28 years of dentistry, I have seen no connection between root canals
>>and failing health.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> canals? Probably the only people who could amass the necessary data are
> forensic patholgists.
Simplicio - 21 Jan 2008 20:44 GMT
> If you reread my comment, you might want to rephrase yours.  I didn't
> say that it was *impossible* for root canals to have any impact upon
> patient health.  I simply stated that I haven't seen any connection
> between endo and poor health in my experience.

That's about as believable as your claims that you've never seen your
patients
effected by micromercurialism. The EPA showed that many people are
exposed
to Hg from non-dental sources (1 in 8), yet that hasn't prevented you
from making the blanket statement over and over, that none of your
patients are effected by Hg from amalgam. Do you have some method of
distinguishing between the two sources? The truth is you don't care.

Than you claimed you'd never seen a filling leak a significant amount
of Hg when
there are ton's of pictures and data showing fillings losing large
amounts of Hg.

Given that history I'd expect your "self" observations about root
canals to
be just as accurate. And it's just as ridiculous, since it would be
impossible for
you to distinguish systemic health effects from other causes, such as
diabeties.
Especially in older patients. If the patient got obviously ill, you
would claim that this was an acute reoccurance of the infection in the
root canaled tooth, or that the older patient was "weakened" by
another health condition. I'll ask again, do you, or any "dental
organization" ever screen your patients with specific medical
questionarres for systemiv effects from root canals or fillings, you
are after all a doctor, or are your "great and wise" observations
sufficent?
Steven Fawks - 22 Jan 2008 02:41 GMT
Glad to see you can still type Clinton.  I was beginning to wonder
about your health.

BTW, what year(s) did you get those poisonous fillings?

Steve

>>If you reread my comment, you might want to rephrase yours.  I didn't
>>say that it was *impossible* for root canals to have any impact upon
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> patients are effected by Hg from amalgam. Do you have some method of
> distinguishing between the two sources? The truth is you don't care.
Simplicio - 22 Jan 2008 18:25 GMT
> Glad to see you can still type Clinton.  I was beginning to wonder
> about your health.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

That was the year they switched to a newer version of the copper
fillings which
are 50 times leaker, 1981
Simplicio - 21 Jan 2008 20:53 GMT
> > In 28 years of dentistry, I have seen no connection between root canals
> > and failing health.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> know that? I think more reasearch needs to be done. Considering that I was
> kneecapped by others here for even asking the question,

typical group behavior, used by cults, the majority of posters are
dentists, when
you question the dental cult, it's members attempt to make you feel
guilty, by questioning your questions! This would work on a weaker
mind, but so far you
don't seem to fall in that category.
Simplicio - 22 Jan 2008 18:58 GMT
> > In 28 years of dentistry, I have seen no connection between root canals
> > and failing health.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> canals? Probably the only people who could amass the necessary data are
> forensic patholgists.

By the way Robert, Are you near the age you are surveying? I didn't
catch what
your age was, or your profession.

It's funny but in High School I new a smart fellow named Robert, he
was quite well read and a good writer. Also had a bit of a sarcastic
wit. For example one time I asked him what would happen if there was
no longer any religion and
he replied-"there would be the religion of science". I think he was
going to go
into investment. Was really interested in the stock market, probably a
billionare by now.
Robert - 22 Jan 2008 20:35 GMT
> By the way Robert, Are you near the age you are surveying? I didn't
> catch what
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> into investment. Was really interested in the stock market, probably a
> billionare by now.

Well, you know, Robert is such a rare name :)

No, all this started very simply. I met a 90-something year old guy at my
health club (in good shape) with still many of his own lower teeth.  I
bucked up the courage and asked him if he ever had root canal and to my mild
surprise he never did even though  one of his sons is an oral surgeon.  (He
did try implants but they didn't "take").

So being a scientist at heart, I thought, hmmm... if you surveyed the
average 80 or 90 year old in good health with at least some of this own
teeth, would he or she have a tooth that had been canalled. Completely
unscientific, but I thought an interesting survey none-the-less.

I didn't anticipate the firestorm that unleashed. :)
 
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