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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / January 2008

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root canal and longevity survey

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Robert - 13 Jan 2008 20:12 GMT
The other day on a lark I asked a 93 year old I know who is in good health
whether he ever had a root canal. I was surprised to hear that he did not.
He once had some implants but he told me they didn't "take" so he now just
wears dentures.

So starting with this sample of one, I'd like to start a completely
unscientific survey. If you know of anyone 80 or above, please ask them if
they currently have a tooth that received root canal. Note their age and
general health.

Post the results to this thread and I'll try to keep track of it and post
the running results somewhere.  So I will start with this one sample:

- Male, 93, Good health, No Root Canal treated teeth.
Newbie@bix.nex - 13 Jan 2008 20:47 GMT
>The other day on a lark I asked a 93 year old I know who is in good health
>whether he ever had a root canal. I was surprised to hear that he did not.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>- Male, 93, Good health, No Root Canal treated teeth.

If he wears dentures shouldn't you say "No Teeth at All" ?

Moron.
Robert - 13 Jan 2008 23:12 GMT
>>The other day on a lark I asked a 93 year old I know who is in good health
>>whether he ever had a root canal. I was surprised to hear that he did not.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Moron.

He wears uppers. I didn't say he wears only dentures.

btw - is Moron your first or last name?
Vaughn Simon - 14 Jan 2008 01:45 GMT
> btw - is Moron your first or last name?

  You have no idea who you are talking to.

Bye
Vaughn
Robert - 14 Jan 2008 03:05 GMT
>> btw - is Moron your first or last name?
>
>   You have no idea who you are talking to.

Well that is sort of obvious since he doesn't identify himself. But I think
I do know - it is someone who calls complete strangers "moron". I've yet to
meet the person who brings enough to the table to tolerate that from
(well... except my wife :)
Newbie@bix.nex - 14 Jan 2008 04:06 GMT
>> btw - is Moron your first or last name?
>
>   You have no idea who you are talking to.
>
>Bye
>Vaughn

He's talking to himself.
Amatus Cremona - 15 Jan 2008 12:54 GMT
Since when does dentures mean only denture?

Don't be picking on my buddy Henry now.  He may not list his name, but the
OT, only gives a first name which may or may not be real.

BTW, everyone who is a regular here knows my name and I suspect JD (is she
still around?) will remind you very soon.  Big deal.

Signature

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Amatus

/

>
>>> btw - is Moron your first or last name?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> He's talking to himself.
Robert - 17 Jan 2008 14:56 GMT
> Since when does dentures mean only denture?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> BTW, everyone who is a regular here knows my name and I suspect JD (is she
> still around?) will remind you very soon.  Big deal.

I wasn't. But maybe I reacted badly. He was the one who called me a moron. I
was just responding. Guess it fell flat though.
Simplicio - 17 Jan 2008 15:27 GMT
> > Since when does dentures mean only denture?
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I wasn't. But maybe I reacted badly. He was the one who called me a moron. I
> was just responding. Guess it fell flat though.

Please, no need to apologize to these mercury pushers! ( it's almost
as
upsetting to watch network news)
Dartos - 21 Jan 2008 17:54 GMT
Hard to be a mercury pusher when I haven't used it since 1985.

But accuracy in your posts has never seemed to matter.

D

> Please, no need to apologize to these mercury pushers! ( it's almost
> as
> upsetting to watch network news)
carabelli - 21 Jan 2008 19:22 GMT
> Hard to be a mercury pusher when I haven't used it since 1985.

I'm gonna go buy another CFL

carabelli
Amatus Cremona - 21 Jan 2008 20:11 GMT
CFL = Canadian Football League ??

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>
>> Hard to be a mercury pusher when I haven't used it since 1985.
>>
> I'm gonna go buy another CFL
>
> carabelli
Dartos - 21 Jan 2008 20:31 GMT
Compact fluorescent lightbulb.

<G>
D

> CFL = Canadian Football League ??
carabelli - 21 Jan 2008 20:36 GMT
>Mercury Laden Compact fluorescent lightbulb.
>
> <G>
> D
Fixed that for you

carabelli
Steven Fawks - 22 Jan 2008 02:28 GMT
Thanks dude, I knew I could depend on you.  I'm sure they will all
be recycled though.

Steve

>>Mercury Laden Compact fluorescent lightbulb.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> carabelli
Newbie@bix.nex - 21 Jan 2008 22:24 GMT
>Compact fluorescent lightbulb.
>
><G>
>D
>
>> CFL = Canadian Football League ??

Calcium Fluoride ?
Amatus Cremona - 21 Jan 2008 23:00 GMT
Cuddly Female Lamb ??

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>
>>Compact fluorescent lightbulb.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Calcium Fluoride ?
Steven Fawks - 22 Jan 2008 02:29 GMT
> Cuddly Female Lamb ??

I live in the country, not Dan.

;-)
Steve
Amatus Cremona - 28 Jan 2008 01:39 GMT
I am starting to  got used to seeing grain elevators & smelling cow manure.

>> Cuddly Female Lamb ??
>
> I live in the country, not Dan.
>
> ;-)
> Steve
Steven Bornfeld - 28 Jan 2008 03:00 GMT
> I am starting to  got used to seeing grain elevators & smelling cow manure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2WlYgDe1Vs

Steve
Newbie@bix.nex - 28 Jan 2008 04:34 GMT
>> I am starting to  got used to seeing grain elevators & smelling cow manure.

Some consider that the smell of money !

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2WlYgDe1Vs
>
>Steve

Good clip.
Amatus Cremona - 28 Jan 2008 20:04 GMT
Should I change my screen name to Eddie Albert ??

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>> I am starting to  got used to seeing grain elevators & smelling cow
>> manure.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2WlYgDe1Vs
>
> Steve
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 28 Jan 2008 20:22 GMT
> Should I change my screen name to Eddie Albert ??

    Not much of a family resemblence, but I'm sure you'd look even better
on a tractor!
    We used to cycle with an Eddie Albert, who was a professor at Hofstra
university.  IIRC he was a medical sociologist.  We used to rib him
pretty mercilessly with that theme song.

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Dartos - 29 Jan 2008 15:40 GMT
>     Not much of a family resemblence, but I'm sure you'd look even
> better on a tractor!

> Steve

Now there's a thought!  I have a 1961 Ford and a 1951 Model B John
Deere.  AC might want one that fits his screen name...Allis Chalmers
D14?

<VBG>
D
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 29 Jan 2008 15:51 GMT
>>     Not much of a family resemblence, but I'm sure you'd look even
>> better on a tractor!
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> <VBG>
> D

    I like it.  We have relatives in Mass. who own a John Deere
distributorship.

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Amatus Cremona - 29 Jan 2008 16:09 GMT
There is a JD dealer across the street from the "Northern" office.

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Amatus

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>>
>>>     Not much of a family resemblence, but I'm sure you'd look even
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Steve
Newbie@bix.nex - 30 Jan 2008 02:34 GMT
>>>     Not much of a family resemblence, but I'm sure you'd look even
>>> better on a tractor!
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>Steve

Kubota rules !
Amatus Cremona - 29 Jan 2008 16:08 GMT
LMAO !!!!

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>
>>     Not much of a family resemblence, but I'm sure you'd look even better
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> <VBG>
> D
Simplicio - 17 Jan 2008 06:20 GMT
On Jan 13, 8:45 pm, "Vaughn Simon" <vaughnsimonHATESS...@att.FAKE.net>
wrote:

> > btw - is Moron your first or last name?
>
>    You have no idea who you are talking to.
>
> Bye
> Vaughn

lets see is this carabelli or WB?
Simplicio - 17 Jan 2008 06:19 GMT
> <New...@bix.nex> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> btw - is Moron your first or last name?- Hide quoted text -

That is a fake name, his last name is actually jackass
George - 13 Jan 2008 21:36 GMT
Considering the age of this gentleman, it would not surprise me that
he never had a root canal. Most caries-related problems will appear in
the first 4 decades of life if the patient takes moderate care of his
teeth. Most of later problems are related to perio and maintainance of
heavily restored teeth. If he's 93, he would have got most caries
during 1920-1954. Now during these years endodontics was still
relatively new, plus there was the great depression and a world war.
Most carious teeth with toothache would tend to get extracted.

Regards,
George
Robert - 13 Jan 2008 23:20 GMT
> Considering the age of this gentleman, it would not surprise me that
> he never had a root canal. Most caries-related problems will appear in
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> relatively new, plus there was the great depression and a world war.
> Most carious teeth with toothache would tend to get extracted.

Valid points. I'm not making any suggestions or drawing any conclusions. I
would be interested if people looked around and asked the octo and
nonagenarians (maybe even centenarians) that they to see if they ever had
RCT.  Interestingly he did try implants.

Incidentally, what do you mean by maintenance of heavily restored teeth? You
mean replacing worn out crowns and stuff?
John & Ninetta - 13 Jan 2008 23:51 GMT
>> Considering the age of this gentleman, it would not surprise me that
>> he never had a root canal. Most caries-related problems will appear in
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> relatively new, plus there was the great depression and a world war.
>> Most carious teeth with toothache would tend to get extracted.

I wonder if the Queen has had any teeth extracted?  I bet she's had a root
canal.

> Valid points. I'm not making any suggestions or drawing any conclusions. I
> would be interested if people looked around and asked the octo and
> nonagenarians (maybe even centenarians) that they to see if they ever had
> RCT.  Interestingly he did try implants.

He was probably referring to pins in teeth to retain restorations, or maybe
he meant posts (which, by definition, means he had a root canal).  Most
older folk get these confused with what we call implants (titanium, directly
into bone) of today.  Implants have only been around since the early 1970s,
and even then, only in infancy.  So, that would make him in his late
50's/early 60's when he was one of the first people in the world to get
dental implants.  Its possible, but you might want clarify what he means by
"implants".

John

> Incidentally, what do you mean by maintenance of heavily restored teeth?
> You mean replacing worn out crowns and stuff?
George - 14 Jan 2008 01:08 GMT
> > Incidentally, what do you mean by maintenance of heavily restored teeth?
> > You mean replacing worn out crowns and stuff?

Yes that too, but I was mainly referring to fillings that get replaced
with larger fillings and then with even larger fillings. Often these
teeth become devitalised and remain silent for years until they
finally blew up.
I would also like to point that patients who are not very dental-wise
may not know/remember RCT by that name. Often they refer to the
process as "killing" or "removing" the nerve. In some cases they may
erroneously think they had RCT whereas they only had a filling or
crown placed. Just some experiences I had with my patients.

Regards,
George
Steven Bornfeld - 14 Jan 2008 03:25 GMT
>>> Considering the age of this gentleman, it would not surprise me that
>>> he never had a root canal. Most caries-related problems will appear in
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> John

    A couple of years ago someone posted a link to a photo of an apparent
dental implant--an iron spike in the mouth of an ancient Etruscan--over
2,000 years old.  Looked perfectly osseointegrated.

Steve

>> Incidentally, what do you mean by maintenance of heavily restored teeth?
>> You mean replacing worn out crowns and stuff?
Newbie@bix.nex - 14 Jan 2008 04:06 GMT
> Its possible, but you might want clarify what he means by
>> "implants".
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Steve

Could have been placed post-mortem.
Frank L - 15 Jan 2008 01:35 GMT
Speaking of post-mortem, two guys brought a dead man in a wheelchair to
a check cashing place in Manhattan last week, to cash his welfare check.
They brought him in case the guy behind the counter needed to see the
recipient. Needless to say, they got caught. If you're not from NY, you
probably didn't hear about it but this was hoot...we see a lot of
craziness in this town but now I've seen everything.
George - 15 Jan 2008 18:45 GMT
> Speaking of post-mortem, two guys brought a dead man in a wheelchair to
> a check cashing place in Manhattan last week, to cash his welfare check.
> They brought him in case the guy behind the counter needed to see the
> recipient. Needless to say, they got caught. If you're not from NY, you
> probably didn't hear about it but this was hoot...we see a lot of
> craziness in this town but now I've seen everything.

I live in London and it was on the papers here (you know the short
stories the use to fill the empty space on pages). They were most
definitely not the brightest sparks in the block.

Regards,
George
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 15 Jan 2008 18:52 GMT
>> Speaking of post-mortem, two guys brought a dead man in a wheelchair to
>> a check cashing place in Manhattan last week, to cash his welfare check.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Regards,
> George

    Somehow--I missed this.  I did hear however about a woman arrested
after being caught living in a house with the bodies of her dead husband
and children.  Sadly, I can't find a link.
    Wow, I miss the Weekly World News...

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Frank L - 15 Jan 2008 21:09 GMT
Steve, here's one link of many, it was even in The New York Times:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,321197,00.html

The Weekly World, I haven't seen that in a long time...don't know if
it's still on the stands. Mermaid gives birth to a Rottweiler. That was
amusing reading. The story above took place in the Hell's Kitchen area,
I think....the epitome of chutzpah, really, I can't believe these guys
would try to pull this off!
Steven Bornfeld - 15 Jan 2008 22:19 GMT
> Steve, here's one link of many, it was even in The New York Times:
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thanks for the link.  Don't know how I missed this.  I would think a
mannequin would have been easier.
    I once had to buy a copy of WWN about 25 years ago to clip out and hang
in my office an article "Miracle Dentist Grows New Teeth".  I still wish
I could refer to him.
    My fave headline was early in the Clinton administration:  "Hillary
Adopts Space Alien" showing a smiling Hil cradling an extraterrestrial.
 Unanswered: how many electoral votes Mars has.

Steve
Amatus Cremona - 15 Jan 2008 22:23 GMT
I liked the Bat-Boy stories

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>> Steve, here's one link of many, it was even in The New York Times:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Steve
Steven Bornfeld - 15 Jan 2008 23:08 GMT
> I liked the Bat-Boy stories

    There was an article about WWN in Newsweek when they were about to stop
publishing.  Bat-boy was fondly mentioned.

Steve
Newbie@bix.nex - 16 Jan 2008 02:52 GMT
>> Steve, here's one link of many, it was even in The New York Times:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>Steve

IIRC Hil is a fan of the 'popular' vote and not so much
of the electoral college. Think Algore agrees.   <hehe>
Steven Bornfeld - 16 Jan 2008 03:08 GMT
> IIRC Hil is a fan of the 'popular' vote and not so much
> of the electoral college. Think Algore agrees.   <hehe>

ouch.

S
Dartos - 15 Jan 2008 19:18 GMT
Made it out here too.

D

>>Speaking of post-mortem, two guys brought a dead man in a wheelchair to
>>a check cashing place in Manhattan last week, to cash his welfare check.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Regards,
> George
Amatus Cremona - 15 Jan 2008 12:55 GMT
Most dental patients over 80 years of age with real teeth in their mouth
have at least one RCT.

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Amatus

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>> Considering the age of this gentleman, it would not surprise me that
>> he never had a root canal. Most caries-related problems will appear in
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Incidentally, what do you mean by maintenance of heavily restored teeth?
> You mean replacing worn out crowns and stuff?
Robert - 15 Jan 2008 22:15 GMT
> Most dental patients over 80 years of age with real teeth in their mouth
> have at least one RCT.

Do you know any 80 or 90 year olds in good health? Would you be able to
survey them and add the results to the thread?
Dartos - 16 Jan 2008 13:24 GMT
>>Most dental patients over 80 years of age with real teeth in their mouth
>>have at least one RCT.
>
> Do you know any 80 or 90 year olds in good health? Would you be able to
> survey them and add the results to the thread?

First we need to define 'good health'. No meds?  No more than 2 meds?
Number of meds doesn't matter as long as they could walk into the
office and walk out?  Mental accuity?

Oh, and then pay me about a weeks wages and I can come up with some
numbers<G>.

From a casual estimation from what I've seen in my practice, I think the
statement is very likely true.

D
Robert - 19 Jan 2008 09:00 GMT
> First we need to define 'good health'. No meds?  No more than 2 meds?
> Number of meds doesn't matter as long as they could walk into the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> From a casual estimation from what I've seen in my practice, I think the
> statement is very likely true.

So let me get this straight - you are a dentist and you have no interest in
the subject? I hope your lack of curiosity it not representative of your
fellow practitioners in general.

If you have an 80 or 90 year old who is able to make it to your office on
their own steam without assistance, I would classify them as being in good
health. Are there any that you know, for a fact, have had root canal
treatment, or are you just speculating?
Newbie@bix.nex - 19 Jan 2008 17:46 GMT
>> First we need to define 'good health'. No meds?  No more than 2 meds?
>> Number of meds doesn't matter as long as they could walk into the
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>health. Are there any that you know, for a fact, have had root canal
>treatment, or are you just speculating?

Apparently you, 'robert', have more interest and time than the
actual practicing dentists that frequent SMD.

Why not do your own statistical analysis ?
You could start with the bureau of census for your
raw data to find the number of 80 - 90 y.o.'s in the US.

Then, you could contact each one of them individually and
ask them if they ever had RCT.

Your postulation at best, is ill conceived.
You have presented a foolish notion and framed it in
an adversarial/accusatory manner.

When 80 - 90 y.o.'s present to my dental office we
do the best we can to accomodate them and relieve
their dental problems.

We also show them the utmost respect.
Something you would do well to learn.
Robert - 20 Jan 2008 03:37 GMT
>>> First we need to define 'good health'. No meds?  No more than 2 meds?
>>> Number of meds doesn't matter as long as they could walk into the
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> We also show them the utmost respect.
> Something you would do well to learn.

Ok, so you treat some 80-90 year olds. Are you telling me you don't know
whether they have root canals or not? I'm not sure which is more appalling:
that you don't know whether your patients have had root canals, or that you
don't care. With a couple of rare exceptions on this list (e.g., Steven
Bornfeld), the lack of intellectual and scientific curiosity in this field
is astounding.  Actually, it is scary.
Newbie@bix.nex - 20 Jan 2008 04:27 GMT
>> When 80 - 90 y.o.'s present to my dental office we
>> do the best we can to accomodate them and relieve
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Ok, so you treat some 80-90 year olds. Are you telling me you don't know
>whether they have root canals or not?

Said nothing of the sort.
Was not telling you anything.

> I'm not sure which is more appalling:
>that you don't know whether your patients have had root canals, or that you
>don't care.

What is more appalling and disgusting is your lack of motivation and
initiative to do your own scientific study and statistical analysis to
answer your own question.

We care about our patients.
We just don't care about you or your preposterous premise.

>With a couple of rare exceptions on this list (e.g., Steven
>Bornfeld),

Leave SB out of this discussion. He is a gentleman.

>the lack of intellectual and scientific curiosity in this field
>is astounding.  Actually, it is scary.

What is more astounding, scary, and frightful is your
holier-than-thou attitude.
The pseudo-intellectual that you are, resides in a fantasy
world that was clearly defined in "OZ".

What gives you the right to diminish and demean the honest
practitioners that frequent SMD ?

Hereby label you a "Troll" and send you to the vast
abyss that is commonly known as 'never land'.

GFYS

PS
Was right about calling you a 'moron' from the get go.
You ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Robert - 20 Jan 2008 21:54 GMT
>>> When 80 - 90 y.o.'s present to my dental office we
>>> do the best we can to accomodate them and relieve
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> Was right about calling you a 'moron' from the get go.
> You ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

I was not proposing any premise. I was simply asking a question. You clearly
consider asking questions to be dangerous. 'nuff said.
Steven Bornfeld - 20 Jan 2008 04:39 GMT
> Ok, so you treat some 80-90 year olds. Are you telling me you don't know
> whether they have root canals or not? I'm not sure which is more appalling:
> that you don't know whether your patients have had root canals, or that you
> don't care. With a couple of rare exceptions on this list (e.g., Steven
> Bornfeld), the lack of intellectual and scientific curiosity in this field
> is astounding.  Actually, it is scary.

    I feel I must respond.  First, thanks for the complement, but while I
like to keep my eyes and ears open for developments in the field, as a
generalist it is simply no longer possible to keep up with all the
research out there.  We have to be selective and cull the most important
clinical information.
    Newbie may have a few more rough edges than I do (maybe just on usenet)
but I know he is a highly skilled and respected dentist.  In terms of
his profession curiosity he has extended his skills far more than
I--particularly in both surgery and particularly in endodontics.  We
have corresponded sufficiently that I know he successfully treats teeth
requiring endodontic treatment that I would certainly refer to specialists.
    I'm not sure what specifically the aim of your question is.  More
important to me is whether endodontic teeth continue to function for
extended periods of time.  For what it's worth, I have an older
practice.  I would say the majority of patients over 70 have either lost
most or all of their teeth, or have one or more teeth that have had root
canal treatment.  In the time I have been out of dental school (coming
up on 32 years) the number of dentures I make has declined.  The primary
reasons I would credit for this are increased periodontal care and
endodontic treatment.  I have had patients in their 80s, 90s and at
least one gentleman over 100 with root canal treatments (one of which I
did 30 years ago).
    The one factor which may change this is the increasing use of implants.
 In the past we would often do root canals and crowns on questionable
teeth in lieu of bridges and dentures.  We now look at some badly
broken-down teeth that would have a questionable prognosis with root
canals and crowns and opt instead for implant replacement where
possible.  Generally this determination depends upon an assessment of
whether a root canal and crown is likely to give a long-term successful
result.  So I believe that those teeth that we choose to save with root
canal treatment and crown will have a better prognosis than in the past.

Steve
Steven Fawks - 20 Jan 2008 13:45 GMT
> Ok, so you treat some 80-90 year olds. Are you telling me you don't know
> whether they have root canals or not? I'm not sure which is more appalling:
> that you don't know whether your patients have had root canals, or that you
> don't care. With a couple of rare exceptions on this list (e.g., Steven
> Bornfeld), the lack of intellectual and scientific curiosity in this field
> is astounding.  Actually, it is scary.

You have been treated with much more kindness and caring than you
deserve, but due to your obvious inability to comprehend what it is
to be a dentist, I'll explain a little more.

Most of us on the ng have been in private practice for more than 20
years.  This means that we have thousands of patients.  It is impossible
to have each patients chart emblazened into our memory (that's why
we have the individual records at the office <duh>).

To accurately answer your question, I would have to search the patient
base for patients over 80, and try to remember if they had any failings
on the last appt.  Then I would have to check each record to see if
they have had any teeth with root canals.

I know that many of them do match your criteria, but whether that is
30% or 80%, I can't say without a lot of work.  No reason to do that.

Endo is safe and effective.  It does not lead to early death or
debilitating illness or infirmaty.

Steve
Simplicio - 21 Jan 2008 19:56 GMT
> To accurately answer your question, I would have to search the patient
> base for patients over 80, and try to remember if they had any failings
> on the last appt.  Then I would have to check each record to see if
> they have had any teeth with root canals.

And we know that doing medical screening for systemic health effects
of Hg or root canals just isn't taught in dental school much less
(GASP!) done in actually practice by dentists. What kind of medical
questionarre do you give your patients
to screen for this kind of health effects?

> I know that many of them do match your criteria, but whether that is
> 30% or 80%, I can't say without a lot of work.  No reason to do that.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Steve

Typical of your self-serving dental logic. You proclaim that you
cannot "know"
the health of root canaled patients over 80, because you would have to
"check your records", and obviously your fellow dentist's and the ADA
(FDA and NiDCR
all dentally run) have, not surprisingly failed to do such research.
Then based on this admitted lack of data which is you and the "dental
industries" own fault, not robert's (his job isn't to determine the
health effects of dental procedures) you make your final  grandiose
proclomation "Endo is safe and effective".
Simplicio - 21 Jan 2008 20:09 GMT
> <New...@bix.nex> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> Bornfeld), the lack of intellectual and scientific curiosity in this field
> is astounding.  Actually, it is scary.- Hide quoted text -

Dentistry is completely unregulated, that's how I got posioned by my
dentist
and many other people get screwed by dentists. But don't be so
surprised, all
most industries care about is $$$, not the health of their clients. Up
until know
have you ever questioned the safety of root canals or other dental
procedures.
What is truly scary is a public that lets dentists behave in this
manner. Given the
public's lack of concern over what goes on in the dental profession I
wouldn't be
surprised by the lack of intellectual and scientific curiosity shown
here (as well as the complete disregard for the health of dental
patients) I would expect it!
Steven Fawks - 20 Jan 2008 03:30 GMT
>>From a casual estimation from what I've seen in my practice, I think the
>>statement is very likely true.
>
> So let me get this straight - you are a dentist and you have no interest in
> the subject? I hope your lack of curiosity it not representative of your
> fellow practitioners in general.

Umm, I just said that I think most older Americans with most of their
own teeth have probably had at least one root canal.  I just do not have
the time to do an accurate statistical analysis, and even if I did, the
sample size would be so small that it would not have any real bearing
on the whole issue.

> If you have an 80 or 90 year old who is able to make it to your office on
> their own steam without assistance, I would classify them as being in good
> health. Are there any that you know, for a fact, have had root canal
> treatment, or are you just speculating?

That's what I was getting at.  What defines 'good health'?  If
ambulatory and self aware is enough, then yes I know of several
who have not only had at least one root canal, but many of them still
have a root canaled tooth still in their mouth.

Steve
Simplicio - 17 Jan 2008 06:24 GMT
> The other day on a lark I asked a 93 year old I know who is in good health
> whether he ever had a root canal. I was surprised to hear that he did not.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> - Male, 93, Good health, No Root Canal treated teeth.

Well my great uncle died in his 80's of lung cancer, smoking,
otherwise was exceptionally healthy, (bicycled across country in his
60's). I'm pretty sure he didn't have a root canal because he had a
life-long fear of the dentist and never went
 
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