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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / August 2008

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Dental Emergencies At Night in NYC

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Frank L - 01 Dec 2007 04:51 GMT
If anyone lives here, maybe you could help me with this. I called
around, looked at the web and phone book and it's a shame that in a city
like NY, if you have a toothache at night after 8 or 9, all you can get
is a prescription but no actual treatment.

Even NYU Dental School which has tons of dentists and residents walking
around, will not treat you late at night. Yet there are regular ERs.
Isn't a severe toothache as painful as things people go to the ER for?
They may not be life threatening but they are severe pains. The dentist
listed as being able to come in (I called him for info) charges $800 as
the emergency fee excluding cost of the treatment. That's a lot but I
realize it's a task for someone to open up late for someone, however.

Any other recommendations? Sundays are not a problem so much, there are
Sunday dentists in certain neighborhoods. Thanks.
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 01 Dec 2007 18:28 GMT
> If anyone lives here, maybe you could help me with this. I called
> around, looked at the web and phone book and it's a shame that in a city
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Don't know where you found your emergency dentist; I believe the local
dental societies maintain a list of dentists willing to take
emergencies.  I don't know if they have a nighttime operator though, so
best getting some names during the day.

Steve

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Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Frank L - 01 Dec 2007 19:47 GMT
Steve, thanks for the reply. I did get a few names and they called back
but don't open their offices. All they said was to come on Monday. When
you type emergency dentists new york city in google, one comes up but he
charges a fortune to open up at night, which I can understand. If it
were severe, I would have gone. If you hear of anyone who has night
hours, even in Brooklyn, Queens, anywhere, would you let me know? I'm
also a bit afraid of going to someone without a recommendation so any
help would really be appreciated. It would give me peace of mind just in
case. By the way, do u fit people with NTIs?
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 07 Aug 2008 00:56 GMT
> Steve, thanks for the reply. I did get a few names and they called back
> but don't open their offices. All they said was to come on Monday. When
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I feel a bit like an apostate here in this newsgroup--no, I don't place
NTI's.  I made one for my brother years ago--he didn't like it.  I have
no concrete reason not to, except that my personal inclination is not to
blame all restorative failures on parafunctional habits.
    It undoubtedly has a place--we could argue about how big a place.
    I'm sure there are plenty of dentists with evening hours--I know I do.
 But I won't come in after hours for a patient I don't know--it's just
too dangerous if I'm going in alone.  But I do it when necessary for a
patient of record, if it's an emergency.
    That should be SOP, and that's why you want to be a patient of record
in a good practice--a practice that WILL take care of you when there's
an emergency.

Good luck,
Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 07 Aug 2008 00:58 GMT
>> Steve, thanks for the reply. I did get a few names and they called back
>> but don't open their offices. All they said was to come on Monday. When
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> Good luck,
> Steve

    Wow, I should be careful about how my newsreader is set up--I
inadvertently replied to a message almost a year old.
    Probably time to go home...

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Fran L - 07 Aug 2008 12:22 GMT
I was wondering, I knew it was an old post! But great to get a reply
again. I understand what you said and I remember the others talking
about the dangers of opening to people you don't know. What bugs me is
that here we have the huge school on E.34th Street which is open all
night but they don't actually do treatments (except give pills). Well,
all I can hope for is that I never get a toothache at night. And keep
some percocets, advil and ice around in case :-)
Newbie@bix.nex - 01 Dec 2007 20:46 GMT
>> If anyone lives here, maybe you could help me with this. I called
>> around, looked at the web and phone book and it's a shame that in a city
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>Steve

As usual you state the facts with much more tact than me.

SB you truly are a gentleman.

I need a couple of molars fixed and want Amatus to do the deed.
Are you up for a trip ?
Steven Bornfeld - 01 Dec 2007 21:50 GMT
>>> If anyone lives here, maybe you could help me with this. I called
>>> around, looked at the web and phone book and it's a shame that in a city
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> I need a couple of molars fixed and want Amatus to do the deed.
> Are you up for a trip ?

    I wish.  We'll make it up there someday, but the holidays are rough.
We're taking a trip President's day week, and otherwise things are just
nuts now (and I'm not far behind).

Happy Holidays,
Steve
Amatus Cremona - 03 Dec 2007 19:18 GMT
:-)

Signature

/

Amatus

> I need a couple of molars fixed and want Amatus to do the deed.
> Are you up for a trip ?
Newbie - 03 Dec 2007 20:18 GMT
>:-)
>
>> I need a couple of molars fixed and want Amatus to do the deed.
>> Are you up for a trip ?

Am thinking March mebbe April.
Amatus Cremona - 03 Dec 2007 20:43 GMT
I'll be here.  You might have to come up "North" to see me, but I will be
here.  Maybe I will have a sailboat by then  ??

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>
>>:-)
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Am thinking March mebbe April.
Newbie@bix.nex - 01 Dec 2007 19:56 GMT
>Even NYU Dental School which has tons of dentists and residents walking
>around, will not treat you late at night.

Really ? Are you sure ?
On Friday night ?
Dentists have nothing better to do than wait around for
idiots like you ?

>Yet there are regular ERs.

A toothache is unlikely to cause you to exsanguinate or expire.

>Isn't a severe toothache as painful as things people go to the ER for?

My first question to you is: "How long has this tooth been hurting ?"
Suspect that the answer is in the range of weeks to months or years.

And you want me to to drop whatever I am doing, travel to the
hospital, examine you without proper equipment, and write a script ?
Not to mention never getting paid for my time ?

Are you a frakking moron ?

People like you deserve to suffer. It's not the dentist's fault.
It's *your* fault for waiting.

Get a clue, dumbass.

I keep regular office hours, nights and weekends however,
belong to me. If I wanted to be 'on call' 24/7 I would have gone
into "Emergency Medicine". That decision has turned out to be
very beneficial. Don't have to deal with dorks like you.

If you want sympathy, well, that costs extra.
Frank L - 01 Dec 2007 22:23 GMT
Newbie, I have posted here before and you have always been so courteous
to me. I don't understand why you're insulting me.

I am not saying that the dentists at NYU have nothing to do. I'm saying
that this is a huge center and it seems that they should have a 24 hour
emergency clinic. I also said that I understand the large fee for a
dentist that has to open up his office late at night.

I did not wait...the tooth pain came on and comes on when it does,
suddenly for many people. I deserve to suffer? What has happened to you
to say this? In the past, you have been so kind to me and others,
offering for us to post x-rays, etc. I really think you misunderstood
the tone of my post and I resent being called dumbass and every other
name you called me.
dacconverter - 01 Dec 2007 23:45 GMT
> I am not saying that the dentists at NYU have nothing to do. I'm saying
> that this is a huge center and it seems that they should have a 24 hour
> emergency clinic.

If I recall correctly, NYU's general dentistry residents would take
call during the evenings. But as of two years (?) ago, NYU had
discontinued their general practice / advanced general dentistry
residency programs.

You're right in that NYU at least has tons of clinical students but
they are not experienced enough to act independently and there
wouldn't be any attending faculty to supervise them during the
weekends and nights.

I know that NYU's oral surgery residents are on call at Bellevue Hosp,
in the event you needed an extraction or pain meds when no other
dentists are available.
Steven Bornfeld - 02 Dec 2007 02:16 GMT
>> I am not saying that the dentists at NYU have nothing to do. I'm saying
>> that this is a huge center and it seems that they should have a 24 hour
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> in the event you needed an extraction or pain meds when no other
> dentists are available.

    Live and learn--I had no idea NYU had had an advanced program in
general dentistry.
    Most of the PG programs AFAIK were just that--PG programs that may have
had a hospital affiliation, but were not residencies in the sense that
they charged tuition.  In my day I think NYU had a PG program in OMFS,
and there was also a residency program out of Bellevue, but this may
well have changed.
    I don't know that the dental clinics are open at night.  I know when I
did my residency (at CMC--another GP residency that I think was
discontinued) we had access to the clinic, but we used it rarely during
the night, and when we did it was for inpatients. I don't remember ever
opening the clinic for an ER patient.  We mostly were called on
head/neck trauma cases, and mostly we'd be spared the toothaches by the
ER staff who'd get them pain meds and tell them to call the dental
clinic in the morning.

Steve
dacconverter - 02 Dec 2007 00:01 GMT
> I did not wait...the tooth pain came on and comes on when it does,
> suddenly for many people. I deserve to suffer? What has happened to you
> to say this?

Don't take it personally.

Even myself, I've become wary of patients with a history of not having
regular checkups and not tending to any symptoms early on.
Particularly in the Medicaid population, these are the sort of
patients who would not show for subsequent appointments and would
neglect care for whatever progress made in the treatment plan,
practically destroying all dental work to date. And then they come
back telling me that I didn't do a good job and yelling at me for
whatever distress they encountered.

Again, I'm not implying on anything to the OP. For sure, there are a
few patients who are exceptions but most people aren't like that.
Frank L - 02 Dec 2007 01:21 GMT
Thanks for that explanation, Seagate. I didn't know that Bellevue does
extractions...good to know. I know that my own dentist has echoed my
feelings about no ER that would treat people other than with meds...he
often has a full waiting room Monday morning, has told me people
actually are sitting on the stoop in agony.

When one of my friends had an abscess, she found a few dentists in
Queens that are open Sunday, including an oral surgeon. So we have a lot
of good help here; it's just the nights that are tough if someone gets a
toothache that even Percocet won't touch.

I don't take things personally because people don't know me here but
it's rude and ill mannered to call someone an idiot and whatever other
adjectives were used, the implication being that I am an idiot of a
patient. I happen to go every 3 months for a cleaning, get exams and
x-rays when needed and am extremely diligent in taking care of my teeth.
Things happen that scare me sometimes and I don't have access to my
dentist at the moment. I come here to learn things and get opinions from
people here who are willing to take the time to talk to us WITHOUT
insults and sarcasm. It's uncalled for, especially when someone is in
distress, which brings us here in the first place.

Thank you so much for your response and kindness.
Amatus Cremona - 03 Dec 2007 20:11 GMT
The issue with after hours emergency care is the fact that most late night calls for pain are not legitimate.  Drug seekers will often call for emergency care after hours (often minutes after the office closes--they time it just right).  Therefore, most dental office become calloused to the late night emergency call from a *non-patient of record*.  Every dentist I know personally will do something for their own patients who come in regularly and follow their suggested treatment plans.  Those patients who only call for emergency treatment every other year, get seen on Monday.  Those who have been in every 6 months and have kept up with needed treatment, get seen right away, unless the problem is not that urgent.  

I have been in my office at every imaginable time of the night and on every Holliday you can think of to take care of *regular* patients in pain.  Emergency calls from patients I do NOT know are told to show up with $150 cash if they want to be seen.  Drug seekers will not pay that much for a prescription, and will not agree to come in.  Patients who really are in pain will find the cash somewhere.  

Every dentist on this NG has experienced the joy of dealing with drug seekers pretending to have a toothache.  We, therefore, have become hardened to this situation.  I have been in "Newbie's" dental office.  He is a very compassionate man who will do anything for his patients and community.  He will not, however, allow himself to be taken advantage of.  Henry (Newbie) is a bit more outspoken on the NG than some of us.  But, he is first in line when he knows there is genuine need.  Your description of your problem (as told on the NG) walks on the edge of sounding like someone who is not getting problems dealt with properly (historically).  I think Henry sensed this and came down hard because of that.  Also, he (like many people) find it sometimes necessary to treat with "tough love".  An attempt to shock a person into dealing with a problem right away rather than continuing to procrastinate.  

An ER is ***not*** set up to perform dentistry.  They generally have an OMFS on call to handle trauma and life threatening situations.  They do not have anyone there to render dental care such is done in a dental office.  

Signature

/

Amatus

/

 Thanks for that explanation, Seagate. I didn't know that Bellevue does
 extractions...good to know. I know that my own dentist has echoed my
 feelings about no ER that would treat people other than with meds...he
 often has a full waiting room Monday morning, has told me people
 actually are sitting on the stoop in agony.

 When one of my friends had an abscess, she found a few dentists in
 Queens that are open Sunday, including an oral surgeon. So we have a lot
 of good help here; it's just the nights that are tough if someone gets a
 toothache that even Percocet won't touch.

 I don't take things personally because people don't know me here but
 it's rude and ill mannered to call someone an idiot and whatever other
 adjectives were used, the implication being that I am an idiot of a
 patient. I happen to go every 3 months for a cleaning, get exams and
 x-rays when needed and am extremely diligent in taking care of my teeth.
 Things happen that scare me sometimes and I don't have access to my
 dentist at the moment. I come here to learn things and get opinions from
 people here who are willing to take the time to talk to us WITHOUT
 insults and sarcasm. It's uncalled for, especially when someone is in
 distress, which brings us here in the first place.

 Thank you so much for your response and kindness.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 03 Dec 2007 20:16 GMT
> The issue with after hours emergency care is the fact that most late
> night calls for pain are not legitimate.  Drug seekers will often call
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    All good points.  I would add that I would be afraid to come to the
office at night alone to see someone I'd never met.  It's a fairly safe
neighborhood, but still...

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Amatus Cremona - 03 Dec 2007 20:42 GMT
One of my mentors had a practice in Highland Park, Michigan.  Which is a
"war-zone" now.  Before he finally retired, he would meet patients for
emergency care at any time of the day or night.  He would however, call the
security service first so that an armed guard would be there waiting for him
and he would have a city police car circling the building.

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>> The issue with after hours emergency care is the fact that most late
>> night calls for pain are not legitimate.  Drug seekers will often call
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
>
> Steve
Newbie - 03 Dec 2007 21:30 GMT
>    All good points.  I would add that I would be afraid to come to the
>office at night alone to see someone I'd never met.  It's a fairly safe
>neighborhood, but still...
>
>Steve

Agreed.

Knew a guy that ran an emergency dental office in addition to his
regular office hour.

Would go out a 3 or 4 AM or later to see patients.
It wasn't cheap I tell ya !
Cash only.

He would even open and medicate teeth.

Don't think that arrangement lasted very long.
news.chi.sbcglobal.net - 02 Dec 2007 04:10 GMT
Frank,  
I feel bad that you feel bad.   Don't take offense.    Maybe his molars hurt.
Gail

 Newbie, I have posted here before and you have always been so courteous
 to me. I don't understand why you're insulting me.

 I am not saying that the dentists at NYU have nothing to do. I'm saying
 that this is a huge center and it seems that they should have a 24 hour
 emergency clinic. I also said that I understand the large fee for a
 dentist that has to open up his office late at night.

 I did not wait...the tooth pain came on and comes on when it does,
 suddenly for many people. I deserve to suffer? What has happened to you
 to say this? In the past, you have been so kind to me and others,
 offering for us to post x-rays, etc. I really think you misunderstood
 the tone of my post and I resent being called dumbass and every other
 name you called me.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newbie - 03 Dec 2007 15:20 GMT
>Newbie, I have posted here before and you have always been so courteous
>to me. I don't understand why you're insulting me.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>the tone of my post and I resent being called dumbass and every other
>name you called me.

Sorry, you caught me in one of my bad times.
Frank L - 03 Dec 2007 18:07 GMT
Thank you, Newbie. I am one of your fans and when you were away a few
weeks ago, I missed your posts. I have bad days too. By the way, I am
going today for a complete set of x-rays and I have an appointment for
tomorrow to go over them. I'll see what he says about this tooth.
 
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