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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / August 2007extra fluoride treatment necessary?
Folks, I use toothpaste with fluoride, rinse my mouth with Act twice a day, and I drink fluoridated water from the tap. I go to the dentist twice a year for routine cleaning and check-up. I have no special problems. The dentist tells me that I need his adult fluoride treatment, where his assistant uses a q-tip to spread the contents of a little tear-open packet on my teeth in about one minute. They tell me that I need this because it's a higher concentration of fluoride than I get elsewhere. They charge $35 extra for the fluoride treatment - not covered by insurance. The result is that I don't trust my dentist anymore. I think he is looking to get as much money from me as he can without regard for what's best for my teeth. Am I getting to be paranoid in my old age? Thanks for any advice. - Dave Depends. How many mm of gingival recession do you have? What medications are you on? Is your volume and viscosity of saliva normal? What is your immune status? How many liters of acidulated drinks do you consume in a day? How many **NEW** areas of decay do you get each year? How accessible to professional dental care is your location? Do you smoke? --Eat candies, breath mints, cough drops? If you do not have *ANY* risk factors for decay, the fluoride varnish is probably not cost effective. It won't hurt you no matter what, it just may not be cost effective. If have never had a filling in your life, have at least 24 teeth in your mouth, brush and floss daily, don't drink soda/Gatorade/Nestea/etc. then you probably don't need it. No way I can know for certain from my desk here in the Eastern Yukon..  Signature/ Amatus / > Folks, > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > - Dave Ask your dentist how much fluoride is in the fluoride varnish (hint 22,600 ppm - toothpaste has 1,000 ppm and has a warning that if swallowed call poison control). There is no dispute that fluoride is toxic in high doses and 22,600 ppm is a HUGE GIGANTIC dose Ask your dentist how much fluoride gets absorbed into your body (hint just as much as gets absorbed from dental fluoride treatment) Ask your dentist if anyone has had bad reactions to the varnish (hint yes) Fluoride is neither a nutrient nor essential for healthy teeth. Dentists use fluoride too cavalierly when, even their own journals tell them, fluoride is only to be used on people with high rates of tooth decay (of if through some psychic means, they assume you are going to get cavities.) Actually, the only scientifically valid predictor of cavities is poverty and already having cavities. In my opinion, you are already over-fluoridating yourself. There is a published case of New York City (fluoridated) man who had an obsessive toothbrushing habit who developed arthritic like pains in his neck that disappeared after stopping the fluoridated toothpaste. For more info http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof http://www.FluorideAction.Net http://www.FluorideResearch.Org Fluoridation News Releases http://tinyurl.com/6kqtu Tooth Decay Crises in Fluoridated Areas http://www.fluoridenews.blogspot.com/ I think your dentists is just trying to pry more bucks from your pockets. Ask > Folks, > > I use toothpaste with fluoride, rinse my mouth with Act twice a day, and I > d rink fluoridated water from the tap. I go to the dentist twice a year for > routine cleaning and check-up. I have no special problems. The dentist > tells me that I need his adult fluoride treatment, where his assistant uses [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > - Dave > Ask your dentist how much fluoride is in the fluoride varnish (hint > 22,600 ppm - toothpaste has 1,000 ppm and has a warning that if > swallowed call poison control). There is no dispute that fluoride is > toxic in high doses and 22,600 ppm is a HUGE GIGANTIC dose Paul-- Just to clarify; 22,600 ppm is a CONCENTRATION, and not a dose. It is very likely that the bulk of fluoride in varnish not absorbed into the enamel is brushed off within 24 hours and expectorated. Steve > Ask your dentist how much fluoride gets absorbed into your body (hint > just as much as gets absorbed from dental fluoride treatment) > > Ask your dentist if anyone has had bad reactions to the varnish (hint > yes) I don't doubt that this has happened to some patients (read the PDR--some patients have reacted to just about any medication out there). But it has never been reported to me. I have had reports of gastric upset with topical gel fluorides. Steve > Fluoride is neither a nutrient nor essential for healthy teeth. > Dentists use fluoride too cavalierly when, even their own journals [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] >> >> - Dave SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >> Ask your dentist how much fluoride is in the fluoride varnish (hint >> 22,600 ppm - toothpaste has 1,000 ppm and has a warning that if [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Steve Concentration vs. Dose, right on boo-boo. This is why I scoff at nyscof. >Concentration vs. Dose, right on boo-boo. > >This is why I scoff at nyscof. Who is nyscoff? I saw the Heather McCartney episode on Larry King. . And as little as I know about geography and world news, even I picked up onthe fact that they mispronounced Newfoundland, and -even worse- claimed to be in a province that was thousands of miles away from where the studio was. That was such flagrant misrepresentation, it made me sick. Like saying "I'm in New York right now, so I must know exactly what's going on in Chicago, as well." Dude, Canada is a teensy bit bigger than baby England, you know? At least learn that tiny fact before you open your yap on national television. mk5000 "it would be a disservice to our fans and ourselves if we took a shortcut. It;s our responsibility to say the first one was good but we can do better"--monique coleman On Aug 15, 8:48 am, Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote: > Paul-- > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Steve Steve So, oh learned one, enlighted us all. How many milligrams of fluoride is in fluoride varnish applied to an adult's mouth. Dose and concentration are indeed two different things. However, when you tell people fluoridation is safe and effective at 1 ppm, do you tell them that they have to count up all the fluoride they eat, drink, gargle with, brush with, inhale, etc. to figure out the dose because the EPA says 4 mg daily can lead to skeletal fluorosis. And the recent NRC fluoride panel said that level is too high to be protective against fluoride's advers effects.. We are constantly told to ask our dentists if we need extra fluoride because maybe we are getting "enough" already from our food supply. Tell us how you tally your patients daily fluoride intake. Not Paul, but you can call me that. > On Aug 15, 8:48 am, Mark & Steven Bornfeld > <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > So, oh learned one, enlighted us all. How many milligrams of fluoride > is in fluoride varnish applied to an adult's mouth. Depends on how much you use, silly. Easy enough to figure out--average application is on the order of 1/10 ml--let's say 10mg. At 5% NaF, I could easily do the calculation if there were a reason to--probably a few ug. But there really isn't, because the amount ingested is far smaller. > Dose and concentration are indeed two different things. However, when > you tell people fluoridation is safe and effective at 1 ppm, do you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > recent NRC fluoride panel said that level is too high to be protective > against fluoride's advers effects.. This is of course a valid issue, and your knee-jerk hostility to me is understandable. However, as you well know, calculating a total dose is generally impossible, since there are imponderables such as rinsing efficiency, absorbtion, etc. But you are wrong to assume that I or other dentists are the troglodytes with regard to this issue that you would have some believe. For the interested, here is a nice survey of the literature on acute and chronic fluoride toxicity. As NYSCOF says, much of the acute and chronic fluoride toxicity is in fact related to fluoride supplements, so of course this is an issue that should be dealt with honestly. This paper is much less alarmist about skeletal fluorosis than NYSCOF is; however, acute poisoning (as well as dental fluorosis) is not something we can ignore--even if it means acknowledging it when a hostile entity confronts us with it: http://jdr.iadrjournals.org/cgi/reprint/71/5/1249.pdf Steve > We are constantly told to ask our dentists if we need extra fluoride > because maybe we are getting "enough" already from our food supply. > > Tell us how you tally your patients daily fluoride intake. > > Not Paul, but you can call me that. SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >> So, oh learned one, enlighted us all. How many milligrams of fluoride >> is in fluoride varnish applied to an adult's mouth. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >could easily do the calculation if there were a reason to--probably a >few ug. But there really isn't, because the amount ingested is far smaller. Just loved this: > Depends on how much you use, silly. Always a gentleman, you are. >>> So, oh learned one, enlighted us all. How many milligrams of fluoride >>> is in fluoride varnish applied to an adult's mouth. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Always a gentleman, you are. Well, it's not Paul, so it's probably Sally. Yes, I'm a gentleman... Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote in message ... > Well, it's not Paul, so it's probably Sally. yeah I saw it and was totally shocked. Are you on any of them? >Yes, I'm a gentleman... who else is on it? I wonder who did the submission mk5000 "this reminds me of my youth. As long as there's room here for the individual artists, this place could never lose its soul"--sam raimi > Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote in message ... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > who else is on it? > I wonder who did the submission I have no connection with NYSCOF except that we live in the same state. I disagree with their positions, but support their right to advocate as they wish. Steve > mk5000 > > "this reminds me of my youth. As long as there's room here for the > individual artists, this place could never lose its soul"--sam raimi |
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