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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / June 2007Question for any dentist here
A question for any dentist here please. What is the average time a crown might last? Just in general. The crown I got done a couple a couple of weeks ago is made of porcelain and metal underneath according to the dentist when I asked him. Is porcelain better for a crown than other materials? Also, what are the chances that a crown could fall out? I have a friend who says she's had a few crowns that fell out, but anybody I know who have crowns, say they have had the crown for 8 years or more. Just wondered... Thank you. Mary Most dentists would rather have Type III gold in their own or loved ones's mouths. That said, for aesthetic areas, full porcelain is the desire. I think that porcealin to metal hols up better than all ceramic, but certainly not like gold. > Most dentists would rather have Type III gold in their own or loved > ones's mouths. That said, for aesthetic areas, full porcelain is the > desire. I think that porcealin to metal hols up better than all ceramic, > but certainly not like gold. Gold crowns are probably very expensive, and I couldn't afford anything like that. My dental insurance only pays half of a crown and I still have to pay several hundreds of dollars so thats enough for me to pay. As I asked - What kind of time frame "might" a crown like mine last? I am in my early 60's. Thank you. Mary Full gold and porcelain fused to noble metal are the same price in my office. We pick what is best for the individual case. I have cases that are almost 30 years old doing fine, but that isn't all of them. Steve > Gold crowns are probably very expensive, and I couldn't afford anything like > that. My dental insurance only pays half of a crown and I still have to pay [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Mary >> Most dentists would rather have Type III gold in their own or loved >> ones's mouths. That said, for aesthetic areas, full porcelain is the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Mary 5 to 30 years > >> Most dentists would rather have Type III gold in their own or loved > >> ones's mouths. That said, for aesthetic areas, full porcelain is the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > 5 to 30 years Just to clarify - Is that for a porcelain with metal underneath? Mary >> >> Most dentists would rather have Type III gold in their own or loved >> >> ones's mouths. That said, for aesthetic areas, full porcelain is the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Mary If well crafted, have seen them last that long. > >> >> Most dentists would rather have Type III gold in their own or loved > >> >> ones's mouths. That said, for aesthetic areas, full porcelain is the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > If well crafted, have seen them last that long. OK thanks. Mary >Most dentists would rather have Type III gold in their own or loved >ones's mouths. That said, for aesthetic areas, full porcelain is the >desire. I think that porcealin to metal hols up better than all ceramic, >but certainly not like gold. Disagree. Would rather have one of AC's Cerecs than a gold crown. > >Most dentists would rather have Type III gold in their own or loved > >ones's mouths. That said, for aesthetic areas, full porcelain is the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Would rather have one of AC's Cerecs than a gold crown. What is Cerecs? Mary CEREC is slang (sort of like saying Kleenex) for a machine milled ceramic restoration. More often, an Onlay rather than a Crown.  Signature/ Amatus / >> On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:26:29 -0400, le huart <fritzfield@hotmail.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Mary > A question for any dentist here please. What is the average time a crown > might last? Just in general. The crown I got done a couple a couple of weeks > ago is made of porcelain and metal underneath according to the dentist when > I asked him. I am a patient with crowns, and this an anecdote. For real advice, pay attention to the actual professionals and your dentist. I currently have a porcelain fused to nobled metal crown (#11 - front tooth; it shows) and a gold crown. In the opinion of dentists who've seen these crowns, they could have been done a lot better, but they're holding up very well after 13 years (alas, since I'd really like a #11 that looks more like #6). Signature"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." - Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather email: archaicnewelpeg at gmail dot com > > A question for any dentist here please. What is the average time a crown > > might last? Just in general. The crown I got done a couple a couple of weeks [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I am a patient with crowns, and this an anecdote. For real advice, pay > attention to the actual professionals and your dentist. Of course. > I currently have a porcelain fused to nobled metal crown (#11 - front > tooth; it shows) and a gold crown. In the opinion of dentists who've > seen these crowns, they could have been done a lot better, but they're > holding up very well after 13 years (alas, since I'd really like a #11 > that looks more like #6). I also have porcelain with metal underneath (thats how my dentist described it). Mary Probably a clencher. I have found, over the years, that if the tissue recede to expose a metal collar on a PFM, re-making the PFM, still results in the metal showing in a couple of years. You have to solve the abfraction problem first. Signature/ Amatus / > >> A question for any dentist here please. What is the average time a crown [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > holding up very well after 13 years (alas, since I'd really like a #11 > that looks more like #6). [reformatted] > > I am a patient with crowns, and this an anecdote. For real advice, pay > > attention to the actual professionals and your dentist. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > holding up very well after 13 years (alas, since I'd really like a #11 > > that looks more like #6). > Probably a clencher. > > I have found, over the years, that if the tissue recede to expose a metal > collar on a PFM, re-making the PFM, still results in the metal showing in a > couple of years. You have to solve the abfraction problem first. If this is a response to my anecdote - turns out I'm not a clencher, but a grinder and some of the problem with my existing crowns are really about the work that was done, not normal wear. For one, the PFM crown was a poor fit, and after I asked the dentist to stop grinding down my few live, vital teeth without fillings so I could close my mouth with the crown, the back of the crown was ground down so the metal is exposed on the back of it. The collar was exposed from *the day* it was placed, and has always looked like there's something that needs to be brushed off, and esthetically, it looks like a canine, but not one of mine. I know the esthestics are probably the least important, from the standpoint of retaining wha's left of the tooth, and it's the obviously poor-fitting crown that was forced to work that dentists who have seen it have mentioned. Same thing with #19, the gold one; it's not a great fit (better than #11, and there's no tissue recession) and it traps food in a way the natural teeth on the other side don't, but it's holding up and not bad enough to replace. And as I mentioned, even though these crowns were not the best work possible, they have held up for over a decade - the point of my anecdote! Please note I'm not trying to be argumentative - I'm appreciative of any help I can get, but in this case, I've been told so many times by enough different dentists that my existing crowns were not done very well that I believe them! Signature"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." - Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather email: archaicnewelpeg at gmail dot com Perhaps your crowns are poorly made, no way I can tell from my desk. My experience is that people who have trouble getting the occlusion "tuned" properly, are clenchers. They may are often called grinders by dentists who don't recognize what is underneath the grinding process. Clenchers often get muscle spasms that they are not aware of and have trouble closing into the same position repeatedly (especially after a longer dental appointment). Grinding is a LIGHT force activity which takes many years to manifest any wear on teeth. Clenching is the forceful squeezing of the jaws (much worse during sleep--and not apparent to patients). Clenching with isometric grinding is the forceful clenching while the body (subconsciously) tries to move side to side and front to back. This bends teeth, causes recession and sensitivity, and BREAKS teeth. These patients typically have 2+ RCT and 3+ crowns. Signature/ Amatus / > > [reformatted] [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > different dentists that my existing crowns were not done very well that > I believe them! > Perhaps your crowns are poorly made, no way I can tell from my desk. If I hold my face up reeeeeeal close to the monitor ... Not "poorly made" perhaps, but closer to "just barely adequately made." > My experience is that people who have trouble getting the occlusion "tuned" > properly, are clenchers. They may are often called grinders by dentists who [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > sensitivity, and BREAKS teeth. These patients typically have 2+ RCT and 3+ > crowns. Well, I'm soon to join that crowd, with 3 RCT, 6 crowns and one removeable bridge appliance. At my appointment today, I did ask if I showed any evidence of clenching, and my dentist says that she doubts that clenching caused the break of #3. She thinks it is more likely due to #4 and #2 being absent and my using the right side more for chewing anyway, since #12 (lingual caries) and #13 (deep decay, needing a crown to restore) and #15 (composite blowout, extracted in November) hurt so much. #30 was abcessed when it had the RCT ... and now I can afford the crown; #31 has "large mesial caries" and is so deeply decayed a RCT is necessary. Most of my problems, I think, are due to a long period of poverty and no insurance. Again - I'm not arguing; I've only seen my teeth at any length, and I'm very interested in keeping the ones I have left, even if it means wearing an appliance at night to keep from snapping them off, and so far, knock wood, the two dentists working on the wreckage don't think I clench. I'll be sure to ask them to reappraise as the restoration goes on, because I'd love to keep them, especially once they're fixed! Signature"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." - Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather email: archaicnewelpeg at gmail dot com When you look at actual studies, you find that chewing puts very little force on a tooth. You push hard when you have a large bolus of food in your mouth. The closer the teeth come to touching, the lighter the force becomes. Actual tooth to tooth contact during eating is very light and for fractions of a second at a time. Perhaps eating cooked spinach may get a few extra seconds of tooth contact during the entire meal, but not much force. A damaged tooth may let go during chewing, but the damage did not occur during chewing. During chewing, if you unexpectedly encounter something very hard (olive pit, peppercorn, walnut shell, etc.) a reflex will suddenly open you mouth very wide. I am sure you have experienced this before. During the day,,,,,,,,,, studies with pressure gauges on teeth show that a person can *intentionally* put 300-600 PSI on a first molar (depends on whose study you look at). These gauges are difficult to use during sleep, so as far as I know, there are no pressure studies done during sleep. However, we can attach electrodes to the outside of the face and measure muscle contraction (not PSI, but a degree of muscle strain). We find that the same person (if they are a clencher) will exert 14 times greater muscle contraction during sleep. Think about the pressures involved........ Even if we were conservative and said you only put 200 psi on a tooth during sleep. But,,,,,, you still do this for 4-8 hours EVERY DAY ! ! ! Eventually, you would break hardened steel if you did this for this long, every day for enough years. The amazing part is that teeth don't break more often under this stress. Ever wonder why you have more fractured teeth? Wonder why you have had more than one tooth die? Think about what possibilities are out there. Signature/ Amatus / > >> Perhaps your crowns are poorly made, no way I can tell from my desk. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > reappraise as the restoration goes on, because I'd love to keep them, > especially once they're fixed! > Ever wonder why you have more fractured teeth? Wonder why you have had more > than one tooth die? Think about what possibilities are out there. As far as I know, the only tooth that has 'died' was the fractured #3. I believe what you've written - is there a way to test for clenching? A full set of x-rays were just taken; would fractures usually show on x-ray (none were seen)? Of course I will ask my dentist at my next appointment in two weeks; as I've mentioned, now that I can finally, finally have them fixed, I'm also very interested in keeping them. Thanks for your time in responding to my questions; I appreciate the help and information. Signature"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." - Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather email: archaicnewelpeg at gmail dot com We typically verify someone is a clencher by symptoms and the type of damage done to their teeth. Abfractions are a give away, as are morning headaches. Are signs and symptoms are not as obvious. Signature/ Amatus / > >> Ever wonder why you have more fractured teeth? Wonder why you have had [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks for your time in responding to my questions; I appreciate the > help and information. > Is porcelain better for a crown than other materials?> Mary Hello everyone, Composite plastic is used for temporary caps, is progress ongoing in developing permanent caps of composite plastic bonded directly to the tooth. Thank you all. |
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