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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / June 2007

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Jaw Necrosis from taking Actonel

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Derek Lawler - 07 Jun 2007 21:23 GMT
A periodontist recommended that I have the innermost left lower molar
removed because of infection and bone loss. When I went in to have the
extraction done the oral surgeon looked at my record and saw that I was
taking Actonel.  He told me he had seen two cases of jaw necrosis due to
patients taking biphosphonates and wanted me to wait and think about it
before he would extract the tooth.
I would like to know if anyone has had this experience with Actonel or other
biphosphonates and their teeth.  Thanks in advance for any thing you can
tell me about this or your own experiences with such a problem.

Nancy
John & Ninetta - 08 Jun 2007 01:06 GMT
Osteonecrosis of the jaw is well documented in patients who have taken
bisphosphonates, although it is a relatively new cause of osteonecrosis as
these drugs have only been around for a short time.

Only you and you dentist/surgeon can decide if the risks (not only of
osteonecrosis, but of other risks involved in the extraction) outweigh the
benefits of the extraction.

Have a read:
www.cda-adc.ca/jcda/vol-73/issue-5/417.html

Good topic for discussion.

John
Mary - 08 Jun 2007 06:39 GMT
Hi John, you might know this. In a discussion I had with a friend who lives
in the States about the temporary crown I had which fell out and I had a
toothache for a weekend. She said to me why didn't I get temporary crown
material you get in a package at my local drug store. She sent me pictures
of something you can use for temp crowns if your temp crown falls out and
its available in most drug stores in the US (temporary fillings too) and are
quite commonly sold. For use in case you can't get to your dentist right
away. I said to my friend that I've never seen anything like that in drug
stores in Toronto except for a  time, I did see a package of some material
that you put in your teeth if fillings fall out just till you get to a
dentist but I've never seen anything for temp crowns that fall off..

I was in Shoppers Drug market today and was curious about this, so I asked
the pharmacist if they ever sold temporary crowns or temp. fillings and she
said they used to sell them a few years ago but were told they couldn't sell
them any more.
She didn't know whose decision that was but said she didn't think it was the
drug stores decision and that maybe it had to do with Dental association or
the govt. She also said well they sell a lot of stuff in the states that we
don't have.
Do you know anything about this or why they stopped sellling temp crown
material or temp filling material in drug stores in Ontario or maybe in al
of Canada? Thanks.

Mary
John & Ninetta - 08 Jun 2007 16:05 GMT
> Do you know anything about this or why they stopped sellling temp crown
> material or temp filling material in drug stores in Ontario or maybe in al
> of Canada? Thanks.

No I don't know anything about why Shoppers doesn't sell the stuff any more.
It has nothing to do with the dental association.  I am fairly sure about
that.  Maybe something with the government, but also unlikely....most
temporary materials are made of zinc oxide-eugenol, which are purchased over
the counter in Ontario (just the temp material stuff is in a slightly
different form, but still the base ingredient is usually ZOE).

The main reason why any store doesn't carry a product anymore is if it
doesn't move off the shelf.  That's probably the reason why your Shoppers
doesn't carry the product any longer.  Try a smaller  non-chain pharmacy.

John
Mary - 09 Jun 2007 00:06 GMT
> > Do you know anything about this or why they stopped sellling temp crown
> > material or temp filling material in drug stores in Ontario or maybe in al
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> the counter in Ontario (just the temp material stuff is in a slightly
> different form, but still the base ingredient is usually ZOE).

Do you mean zinc oxide-eugenol can be used for temporary crowns that fell
out, or for fillings that fell out?
And you mention they are purchased over the counter in Ontario - have you
seen them in drug stores in your town or other places in Ontario?

> The main reason why any store doesn't carry a product anymore is if it
> doesn't move off the shelf.  That's probably the reason why your Shoppers
> doesn't carry the product any longer.  Try a smaller  non-chain pharmacy.

I would have thought Shoppers was the best place to ask since they have
stores all over the place. And the pharmacist there has been there for a few
years. I also asked in a Food Basics store where there is a large pharmacy,
and the pharmacist there said what you said above (that the products did not
move).
What are people supposed to do if their fillings fall out or the less likely
case like mine of a temp crown that fell off till they get to a dentist? I
was unlucky that my crown fell off on a Friday evening but if I had been
able to get a temp crown at a drug store, it would have saved me a weekend
of pain.  Thank you.

Mary
Amatus Cremona - 09 Jun 2007 00:19 GMT
What is a temporary crown?

>> > Do you know anything about this or why they stopped sellling temp crown
>> > material or temp filling material in drug stores in Ontario or maybe in
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Mary
Mary - 09 Jun 2007 00:54 GMT
> What is a temporary crown?

The crown material that is put on the tooth (or covers the tooth) after the
tooth is drilled down and while the permanent crown is being made which was
a week later in my case. My temporary crown fell off a couple of days after
the dentist put it on, and I had a severe toothache till I got back to the
dentist 3 days later. If I had been able to get the stuff which John
mentioned (zinc oxide-eugenol) in his message back to me which he said is
sometimes used temporarily to cover the tooth when the temp crown falls of,
I wouldn't have had to put up with a severe toothache I had for the whole
weekend, but I didn't know such a product existed till later. Is that what
you are asking?

Mary

> >> > Do you know anything about this or why they stopped sellling temp crown
> >> > material or temp filling material in drug stores in Ontario or maybe in
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> >
> > Mary
Amatus Cremona - 09 Jun 2007 17:22 GMT
I have not made a temporary crown in 8 years.

>> What is a temporary crown?
>
[quoted text clipped - 68 lines]
>> >
>> > Mary
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 09 Jun 2007 18:47 GMT
> I have not made a temporary crown in 8 years.

    I have had surgeons ask me to make acrylic crowns on implants that they
don't wish to fully load yet.
    Just this Thursday I removed an old crown that some dentist had
"patched" by stuffing about half a metric ton of amalgam around the
margin and down to the interproximal crestal bone.  His periodontist is
going to do osseous surgery in the area, and wanted a the old crown out,
and a temporary crown put in for now.
    Just an occasional job. ;-)

Steve

>>> What is a temporary crown?
>> The crown material that is put on the tooth (or covers the tooth) after
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
>>>>
>>>> Mary

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Amatus Cremona - 10 Jun 2007 03:58 GMT
I would refer to that as a long term provisional crown ..

>> I have not made a temporary crown in 8 years.
>
[quoted text clipped - 84 lines]
>>>>>
>>>>> Mary
Steven Bornfeld - 10 Jun 2007 15:32 GMT
> I would refer to that as a long term provisional crown ..

    You say "tomato", I say "tomahto"...

Steve

>>> I have not made a temporary crown in 8 years.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 84 lines]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mary
Newbie - 11 Jun 2007 15:07 GMT
One of my professors said he practiced with Peter K. Thomas,
reported that PKT did Sharon Tate's porcelain crowns.

He further stated that PKT made cast gold provisionals
during the evening after the preparations and placed them
the next day.

How's that for a 'temporary' ?

>I would refer to that as a long term provisional crown ..
>
[quoted text clipped - 86 lines]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mary
Derek Lawler - 08 Jun 2007 16:21 GMT
John,

Thank you very much for giving me the URL of the Canadian Dental
Association.  The information was very helpful and is enabling me to proceed
in contacting my primary doctor and dentist to have them correspond about my
problem.

Nancy
Steven Bornfeld - 08 Jun 2007 01:22 GMT
> A periodontist recommended that I have the innermost left lower molar
> removed because of infection and bone loss. When I went in to have the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Nancy

    This is a big and growing problem in dentistry.  I would not
second-guess the oral surgeon.  At this point though the incidence of
osteonecrosis in patients taking oral bisphosphonates such as Actonel or
Fosamax is far lower than the risk for patients taking injectable
bisphosphonates such as Boniva or Zometa.
    It's not fair IMO to leave you hanging to "think about it".  He should
get together with the periodontist and discuss the relative risks as he
sees them for extraction vs. retention of the tooth.  Then the three of
you can make an informed choice.
    As this is a developing issue, there is no one right answer.

Steve
The Webby - 08 Jun 2007 15:15 GMT
> > A periodontist recommended that I have the innermost left lower molar
> > removed because of infection and bone loss. When I went in to have the
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Steve

And John wrote in his recent reply:
> Osteonecrosis of the jaw is well documented in patients who have taken
> bisphosphonates, although it is a relatively new cause of osteonecrosis as
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Good topic for discussion.

I raised this issue in smd when it "first" hit the "news" in March (?)
two years ago.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry, alt.support.jaw-disorders
From: The Webby [address deleted]
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 00:00:07 GMT
Local: Tues, Mar 22 2005 5:00 pm
Subject: Avascular necrosis of TMJ

http://www.niams.nih.gov/hi/topics/avascular_necrosis/

In my case, it was (later) determined that I suffered bilateral
avascular necrosis of the temporomandibular joints as a result of
surgical complications from surgical error (orthognathic surgery).  The
joints were destroyed and thus began the saga of my chronic and
permanent TMJ disability and disease.

If you search Google Groups for "osteonecrosis jaw" you'll discover
posts that you may not have paid attention to in the past -- or maybe it
was even *you* who put the posts up!  Either way, it's an interesting
review.

The subjects of TMJ avascular necrosis and osteonecrosis of the
maxillofacial area (jaw/jawbone) are or should be matters of interest to
dental related newsgroups.

II'm just tossing these topics out to see if there's any interest in
getting a discussion going.  Turn on your television and count how many
times you see an advertisement for Fosamax (alendronate) in one evening.  
I watch relatively little television but I sure see a lot of Fosamax
pushing.

Webby
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I believe it is a very good topic for discussion!!!  

There is the old saying that if it happens 1% of the time and it happens
to you ... it happens 100% of the time.  Nancy not only needs to know
what the risks are *if* she has the tooth extracted ... she also needs
to know what sort of risks are associated with treatment options *if*
she ends up with the worst case scenario.

Unfortunately, the problem as I see it is more like this:

When doctors want their patients to be treated with these drugs, they
need to not only mention the dental risks ... they need to get the
information to their patients about how their Humpty Dumpties will be
put back together again if they fall off the wall... and what the risks
of *that* might be.

Webby
Derek Lawler - 08 Jun 2007 16:23 GMT
Steve and Webby,

Thanks for your replies to my query.  You have all been quite helpful.

Nancy
Steven Bornfeld - 08 Jun 2007 21:46 GMT
>>> A periodontist recommended that I have the innermost left lower molar
>>> removed because of infection and bone loss. When I went in to have the
[quoted text clipped - 88 lines]
>
> Webby

    Sadly, there are no good answers to the problem of bisphosphonate
related osteonecrosis (BON) that I have heard of.  Treatment is
palliative.  Some patients tolerate it well, some not well at all.
    It is easy to wonder why a drug with these potential sequellae is used
so widely.  To grossly oversimplify, on the one hand the magnitude of
the problem is often not appreciated until considerably later (as you
know from personal experience) or there is actual malfeasance in the
dispensing of available information (see Vioxx).  On the other hand, the
conditions being treated are significant.  The morbidity associated with
hip fractures in the osteoporosis patient are very serious.
Furthermore, since the bulk of the BON cases seen so far are patients
receiving intravenous bisphosphonates for metastatic breast, prostate
and other bone cancers, the calculus for risk of treatment is not only
very complicated, but also changing continually.
    Finally, an increasing number of BON cases are arising in patients with
no apparent history of trauma, so the benefit of avoiding necessary
dental treatment is even harder to know.
    Unfortunately, the surgeon has to think not only of the medication, the
reason it is being administered, the dental treatment, and the patients'
needs and desires, but also of the lawyer lurking around the corner.
They learned about BON very quickly.

Steve
 
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