pH list (acidity of beverages)

Thread view:

Enable EMail Alerts

Start New Thread

Thread rating:

grubertm@gmail.com - 14 Apr 2007 01:34 GMT

Finally I have come across a list with a scope beyond the typical
"water good - coke bad" :

http://www.21stcenturydental.com/smith/pH_drinks.htm

Too bad the type of tea was not specified..

Reply to this Message

Steven Fawks - 14 Apr 2007 02:16 GMT

> Finally I have come across a list with a scope beyond the typical
> "water good - coke bad" :
>
> http://www.21stcenturydental.com/smith/pH_drinks.htm
>
> Too bad the type of tea was not specified..

But low pH *and* sugar is a whole lot worse than low
pH and *no* sugar.

Average pH *and* sugar is probably worse than low pH and
no sugar.

I think the chart is worthless.

Steve

Reply to this Message

Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 14 Apr 2007 19:27 GMT

>> Finally I have come across a list with a scope beyond the typical
>> "water good - coke bad" :
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Steve

Yes--Arizona Ice Tea is loaded with sugar, but it's putative pH reading
of 9 would have you think it is safe.
Decay is a bacterial disease. Low pH will facilitate a move in the
equilibrium between mineralization and demineralization toward
demineralization. The OP should remember that specific bacterial flora,
load and frequency of fermentable carbohydrate intake, oral hygiene,
specific immunologic factors, mineral content of tooth structure (and
probably others I'm neglecting) are all pertinent. One should not think
that by switching to a soft drink further down the pH list will
necessarily have any significant effect.

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Reply to this Message

grubertm@gmail.com - 16 Apr 2007 20:33 GMT

On Apr 13, 6:27 pm, Steven Fawks <tuthjoc...@myturbonet.com> wrote:

> Average pH *and* sugar is probably worse than low pH and
> no sugar.
>
> I think the chart is worthless.

Huh? The chart lists pH and sugar content (where available) so I don't
see why it should be worthless..

> Yes--Arizona Ice Tea is loaded with sugar, but it's putative pH reading
> of 9 would have you think it is safe.

Reminds me of past discussions in s.m.d. where coffee was deemed bad
for your teeth because people tend to add sugar to it. Well, duh, if
you add sugar to any beverage obviously you change its effect on
dental health.

> he OP should remember that specific bacterial flora,
> load and frequency of fermentable carbohydrate intake, oral hygiene,
> specific immunologic factors, mineral content of tooth structure (and
> probably others I'm neglecting) are all pertinent.

Of course there are more than two factors involved, but are you saying
that these change the relative effects of lower pH values? Given one
person with a specific diet, wouldn't it be healthier to consume less
acidic drinks (with same sugar content) than higher acidic drinks ?
Same thing for sugar content: for a certain person with a fixed diet
wouldn't it be healthier to consume drinks with a lower sugar content
(assuming that pH is similar) than those with higher sugar content?
Not sure how you deal with multi variable functions in medical school,
but for comparison purposes we engineers try to hold all variables but
one constant.

- Marco

Reply to this Message

Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 16 Apr 2007 22:06 GMT

> On Apr 13, 6:27 pm, Steven Fawks <tuthjoc...@myturbonet.com> wrote:
>> Average pH *and* sugar is probably worse than low pH and
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> person with a specific diet, wouldn't it be healthier to consume less
> acidic drinks (with same sugar content) than higher acidic drinks ?

This sounds intuitive, and may well be true. Certainly
demineralization of dental tissues in various soft drinks have been
studied extensively in vitro; I don't recall offhand any studies that
have shown that merely substituting drinks with higher pH has a
significant influence on caries rate per se.

> Same thing for sugar content: for a certain person with a fixed diet
> wouldn't it be healthier to consume drinks with a lower sugar content
> (assuming that pH is similar) than those with higher sugar content?
> Not sure how you deal with multi variable functions in medical school,
> but for comparison purposes we engineers try to hold all variables but
> one constant.

Ah, easier said than done in a living system, but it might make for an
interesting clinical study.

Steve

> - Marco

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Reply to this Message

Dartos - 17 Apr 2007 14:05 GMT

> On Apr 13, 6:27 pm, Steven Fawks <tuthjoc...@myturbonet.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Huh? The chart lists pH and sugar content (where available) so I don't
> see why it should be worthless..

The highest sugar content and the highest acidity drinks on the chart
will be the worst for your teeth.

That is the only inference that is possible.

If you had watched patients with decay problems over a 20-30 year span,
you would know that the 'sugar addicts' are always looking for a
'safer substitute' for their current behavior. (I'm not talking about
patients who get one cavity in five years...I'm talking about patients
that have 2-6 areas of decay every 6-12 months)

They will take a chart like this and think they are really helping them-
selves by substituting sugared tea for their Pepsi. When it comes time
to check their teeth, I can't tell the difference.

I'm not saying pH has no effect in decay production regarding soft
drinks, but it isn't the main factor. SUGAR is the main factor.
I've seen quite a few patients that switched to diet soda instead
of straight soda and dramatically reduced their decay problems.
I rarely see a patient drinking artificially sweetened drinks with
decay problems, unless they're using the Diet Coke to wash down
cookies, donuts, and pastry<G> (and some do!).

Once a patient gets off *ALL* sugars between meals, then maybe I'll
start worrying about pH.

D

Reply to this Message