Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / April 2007
concern: dentist poking around on teeth
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tysteel - 03 Apr 2007 19:49 GMT Hi,
Just a while ago I visited a local dentistry business, and I was going to have a tooth filled.
The dentist recommended that I have several teeth filled, though I wasn't aware of any problems or cavities before. I do have a concern:
During the initial exam (which had x-rays and the like) the doctor kept poking around my teeth and gums with a kind of pick. It was a metal pick which I think is used to clean teeth.
Something that he did was poke VERY HARD with this pick on my bottom molars. It hurt. He didn't do this to any of my other teeth or the upper teeth, just a select few at the bottom. Is this sort of thing kind of unusual? I was just concerned that maybe he might've been intentionally trying to create cavities in my teeth, so he could justify a higher bill. The charge is $168 per filling.
I'm paying for this in cash, not health insurance, so I'm concerned about that. As I told the dentist, my immediate need is to have one upper tooth filled, but I don't need any other work done, as I would take care of that another time. I have looked at a few of those bottom teeth and I'm now noticing some small pinprick holes there. I kind of wonder if this was caused by the dentist. I hope he wasn't trying to sabotage my teeth or created damage there. I haven't been to a dentist since I was a kid (I'm 28 years now) so I don't know the routines of dentists too well.
Is this something I should have checked out by maybe having another dentist examine the teeth to see, or is this pretty typical?
thanks
carabelli - 03 Apr 2007 21:28 GMT If that is *not* done to an area that is possibly suspect you are being shortchanged. Standard procedure. BTW, it's called an explorer and is used to check pits and fissures for possible decay.
Now, why would you suspect he/she is intentionally damaging your teeth?
carabelli
tysteel - 06 Apr 2007 02:27 GMT > If that is *not* done to an area that is possibly suspect you are being > shortchanged. Standard procedure. BTW, it's called an explorer and is used [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > carabelli Thanks for the responses. I suppose I'm naturally suspicious and it's because I've learned in life over the years that most people and businesses will try to screw you over for more profit. That is why I asked because I wanted to be sure. He was poking some of my molars (in particular, in the left side) with the explorer to the point that it was causing pain, and my first thought is that something like that could've been handled more gently. I was just concerned about whether or not he was intentionally damaging my teeth, so as to justify charging me more for work I didn't need before I arrived.
After he was done doing all of his poking around, he told me that I had several cavities that needed fillings. Now just by looking very carefully, I don't have any visible cavities and I don't feel any real "pain" on any of the teeth while eating, so I'm not sure what he was on about. The truth is that I came in with the express purpose of having one tooth filled that had been chipped a while back while chowing down on a steak, but he had me undergo an exam where he checked out all my teeth much to my chagrin.
I was very disappointed with the service of this place. They took all these x-rays and examined my teeth, and quoted me a price of $2,000+ to fix all of the teeth. I don't have medical insurance and I only pay in cash, so I let them know that I came with the express purpose of having that one tooth filled, as I had mentioned to their people before and after having the x-ray and exam done.
The dentist said he would take a conversative approach and that the tooth in question could be filled with material, but may require a direct PU (whatever that is), and so the quoted price was $227 for the filling and etc on that one tooth. Just like I wanted. I was told to come back in 3 hours for the work. He said that a "root canal" might be possible, depending on whether or not any of the nerve is exposed while clearing out the decay, but likely would not involve that.
I went back to the place and the people at the dentistry office then told me to be prepared to pony up $600+ (in addition to the $227) just in case if a root canal is needed, as it could be a possibility.
What I don't understand is, shouldn't they have a pretty good idea if that is really needed or not when they take all the x-rays and exams? If not, then what's the point of doing all of that?
I told them that since the dentist had said that there's a chance it's not possibly needed, why not just do the filling? It's my tooth...just fill it like I said and do your own....don't need and can't afford a root canal. And why don't they remove the decay and see for sure whether or not if a root canal is actually required, and I will pay them for the work up to that point?
To this, that was refused saying that once the dentist starts, he can't stop and that I better have another $600 handy.
Like I said, I pay cash, don't have health insurance, and the idea of paying $800+ for a damn tooth filling is ridiculous! The tooth isn't in pain, so it's not down to the nerve.
I felt that this dentist wasted my time and money to give me an exam and basically tell me what I already knew: I need a filling. I regret going to this dentist and I lost money I could've made at work that day.
Amatus Cremona - 06 Apr 2007 12:04 GMT I am glad I don't have patients who *think* they know more than I do about dentistry.
Come on pal, if you don't trust the office get another opinion. Your description sounds like a very caring thoughtful practice who is doing everything right. What you are asking for is considered malpractice. good luck.
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Amatus
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On Apr 3, 1:28?pm, "carabelli" <redsl...@worldnet.att.not> wrote:
> If that is *not* done to an area that is possibly suspect you are being > shortchanged. Standard procedure. BTW, it's called an explorer and is used [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > carabelli Thanks for the responses. I suppose I'm naturally suspicious and it's because I've learned in life over the years that most people and businesses will try to screw you over for more profit. That is why I asked because I wanted to be sure. He was poking some of my molars (in particular, in the left side) with the explorer to the point that it was causing pain, and my first thought is that something like that could've been handled more gently. I was just concerned about whether or not he was intentionally damaging my teeth, so as to justify charging me more for work I didn't need before I arrived.
After he was done doing all of his poking around, he told me that I had several cavities that needed fillings. Now just by looking very carefully, I don't have any visible cavities and I don't feel any real "pain" on any of the teeth while eating, so I'm not sure what he was on about. The truth is that I came in with the express purpose of having one tooth filled that had been chipped a while back while chowing down on a steak, but he had me undergo an exam where he checked out all my teeth much to my chagrin.
I was very disappointed with the service of this place. They took all these x-rays and examined my teeth, and quoted me a price of $2,000+ to fix all of the teeth. I don't have medical insurance and I only pay in cash, so I let them know that I came with the express purpose of having that one tooth filled, as I had mentioned to their people before and after having the x-ray and exam done.
The dentist said he would take a conversative approach and that the tooth in question could be filled with material, but may require a direct PU (whatever that is), and so the quoted price was $227 for the filling and etc on that one tooth. Just like I wanted. I was told to come back in 3 hours for the work. He said that a "root canal" might be possible, depending on whether or not any of the nerve is exposed while clearing out the decay, but likely would not involve that.
I went back to the place and the people at the dentistry office then told me to be prepared to pony up $600+ (in addition to the $227) just in case if a root canal is needed, as it could be a possibility.
What I don't understand is, shouldn't they have a pretty good idea if that is really needed or not when they take all the x-rays and exams? If not, then what's the point of doing all of that?
I told them that since the dentist had said that there's a chance it's not possibly needed, why not just do the filling? It's my tooth...just fill it like I said and do your own....don't need and can't afford a root canal. And why don't they remove the decay and see for sure whether or not if a root canal is actually required, and I will pay them for the work up to that point?
To this, that was refused saying that once the dentist starts, he can't stop and that I better have another $600 handy.
Like I said, I pay cash, don't have health insurance, and the idea of paying $800+ for a damn tooth filling is ridiculous! The tooth isn't in pain, so it's not down to the nerve.
I felt that this dentist wasted my time and money to give me an exam and basically tell me what I already knew: I need a filling. I regret going to this dentist and I lost money I could've made at work that day.
tysteel - 06 Apr 2007 23:41 GMT > I am glad I don't have patients who *think* they know more than I do about > dentistry. Dear sir,
Paying $800 overall for a tooth filling is just ridiculous for someone who doesn't have health insurance in the first place. I'm not Donald Trump, or a welfare queen who has the government paying for health costs.
All I asked for is one filling, not for all alleged microscopic cavities to be filled. Maybe if one day I end up with insurance, I'm sure I'd take care of that.
They told me, "you might need a root canal...and you might not..but if we do be prepared to pony up another $600".....in other words, they were ready to hit me up because I was paying cash.
My question is, by checking out their x-rays and the close-up exam they do, shouldn't they know for sure whether or not it will require a root canal or not?
I just think it's ridiculous. now this tooth will only further deteriorate because they didn't fill it as required. I might as well fill the son of a bitch myself with jbweld.
This sort of thing just reminds me of the rip off auto mechanics I've dealt with in the past. You go to them just to have new brake pads put in, and then they go on and on about how to you need to replace the calipers themselves and other components of the brake system...they gloom and doom about how the brake system is going to fail soon. A simple disc change turns into a $500 job. It's just a rip off. This happened to me once, I refused to deal with this kind of rip off and learned to change the brakes myself when I was out of high school. You know what? I drove that car around 5 years after I visited that rip-off mechanic, and my brake systems continued to run as good as they did when it was brand new.
In my opinion, the dentist I visited the other day was no better than the rip-off auto mechanic I mentioned above.
I do need to seek another opinion, but given how they all seemingly want to charge so much money just to have an exam with x-rays which seem to be meaningless anyway, I kind of wonder why bother.
Steven Fawks - 07 Apr 2007 02:05 GMT > My question is, by checking out their x-rays and the close-up exam > they do, shouldn't they know for sure whether or not it will require a > root canal or not? Absolutely not.
Like I said in a subsequent post, patients often do not understand decay.
You found a 'cavity' and think it should be able to be repaired with a simple filling. Maybe, maybe not. Certainly waiting until you were able to find it yourself, has lessened your chances.
Some dentists want to sell you a pig in a poke, but most really care about a correct diagnosis (that's what the exam and X-rays are all about), and treatment to match the pathology.
Fixing one tooth (with or without a root canal) and not pointing out the other problems is not going to help you in the long run. You will likely wait until you can *see* the next cavity and be right back facing the same problem.
Sorry to be so blunt, but you're letting your mouth go to hell for lack of trusting a dentist.
Steve
Amatus Cremona - 09 Apr 2007 13:10 GMT How loud do you think this guy would be screaming when he gets the "filling" and the tooth *blows-up* and needs RCT due to pain? Of course it would be the dentist's fault.
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> >> My question is, by checking out their x-rays and the close-up exam [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Steve Jim Leonard - 09 Apr 2007 15:04 GMT > All I asked for is one filling, not for all alleged microscopic > cavities to be filled. Maybe if one day I end up with insurance, I'm > sure I'd take care of that. Guess what? By the time *you* have noticed a cavity, or root pain, it's way WAY too late and additional work (and costs) are assured.
I am just a layman, but I've done my research and you are not being misled by your dentist. They are trying to fill the cavities now before they become bigger problems later.
One website really helped me understand all of the issues involved. It's very well written and informed, with tons of background info if you choose to pursue it: http://www.doctorspiller.com/ It helped me a great deal, and got me back into the chair before I faced extraction.
> My question is, by checking out their x-rays and the close-up exam > they do, shouldn't they know for sure whether or not it will require a > root canal or not? Usually yes. But my dentist shows me my own xrays and I can see for myself, even when I know the condition of the tooth, how difficult it can be. I had the very beginnings of pain in one tooth, he did the xrays, and it was borderline whether or not he could tell definitively if the pulp was infected. I chose to insist (although for the wrong reason; I was more curious than in pain) and he did the root canal (it was a single root, so he was comfortable doing it -- for more complex work I will see an endodontist) and, lo and behold, infected pulp... and my pain was gone the next day. So I *knew* the condition and yet it was still tough to see on the xray.
This is why, sometimes, nothing beats exploration.
> I just think it's ridiculous. now this tooth will only further > deteriorate because they didn't fill it as required. That was your choice, so why are you blaming the dentist?
If you don't like his fees, shop around. It's a free market.
> You know what? I drove that car around 5 years after I > visited that rip-off mechanic, and my brake systems continued to run > as good as they did when it was brand new. Right... and you're saying that 1. all auto mechanics are evil, and 2. all dentists must be as well?
The best way to avoid getting ripped off is to do research and educate yourself. Visit the URL I posted above when you've got 30 minutes or so... it's good reading, and you'll feel more prepared for your next visit.
Dartos - 06 Apr 2007 13:43 GMT > Like I said, I pay cash, don't have health insurance, and the idea of > paying $800+ for a damn tooth filling is ridiculous! The tooth isn't > in pain, so it's not down to the nerve. It is rare that patients really understand tooth decay. It begins in the fissures and pits of teeth, between the teeth, and around the gum line. Pit and fissure decay is the most common followed by the cavities between the teeth. Gumline decay is usually associated with excessive sugar consumption and poor oral hygiene.
These cavities begin on a microscopic level with demineralization of the tooth structure in an area no larger than a ".". There is no way that a patient will be aware of this problem.
Months go by and the "." on the outer surface of the tooth is probably not any larger, but under the surface of the enamel the cavity expands to anywhere about "o" to "0". The patient still has no clue there is a cavity.
More time elapses (without a dental visit and restoration of the decay) and the inner decay hollows out more interior tooth structure (dentin decays much faster than enamel). The entry point begins to crumble and enlarge, and eventually 'the roof caves in' and the patient can finally see the decay, and says, "Oh, there is a cavity. I need a filling".
What they do not realize is that they had a cavity for years growing silently within a tooth that could have been detected and repaired while it was still small. You cannot turn back time and shrink the size of the cavity. Root canals or extractions become very common with this mind set.
You need to find a dentist you trust, get all of your teeth examined, and have *all* of the decay repaired. Then you need to keep regular exams to make sure all of the old fillings are OK and that new decay hasn't started elsewhere.
Waiting to get a cavity 'fixed' until a patient can see it is dental suicide.
D
George - 03 Apr 2007 21:44 GMT The enamel that's covering your teeth is the hardest substance in your body and can survive fire and break bones. You can't really damage it with a probe unless it has already been softened by decay. The probe's actual use is to detect such areas of decay, commonly occurring at the depth of a pit on the tooth's surface.
Regards, George
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