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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / March 2007NTI impressions today
Well, I got the impressions done today. I expressed my concern about any difficulty getting that thing out of my mouth. The very nice lady said not to worry -- she wouldn't leave my side. True to her word, she held the tray in place and kept testing the material. It was less than 2 minutes for each impression. There was a little soreness in two teeth for about 5 minutes. The device will be ready in two weeks. Be nice to me -- I had to put my 12-year-old dog to sleep yesterday, and the tears won't stop. But I made it through the appointment without crying. Eva I don't get why some dental offices send these out to laboratories. > Well, I got the impressions done today. I expressed my concern about > any difficulty getting that thing out of my mouth. The very nice lady [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Eva I've been making them chairside for years. I this a new technique? If its actually an NTI, the only licensed lab is Keller. So assuming it is Keller, then the patient would be getting an NTI Plus. If there are labs out there producing NTI's I am sure Jim Boyd would be highly interested in knowing who they are. :-) >I don't get why some dental offices send these out to laboratories. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> Eva I just wonder how much the dental office would have to charge for an NTI if they sent it to the lab each time. Your office time doubles, material cost triples, and you have the lab fee.  Signature/ Amatus / > If its actually an NTI, the only licensed lab is Keller. So assuming it > is Keller, then the patient would be getting an NTI Plus. If there are [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>> >>> Eva Without a doubt the only way to go is chairside. Certainly you would think the overall fee would be the same (nationally speaking) but all of that overhead as you have described is a killer to the bottomline. >I just wonder how much the dental office would have to charge for an NTI if >they sent it to the lab each time. Your office time doubles, material cost [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>>> >>>> Eva > I just wonder how much the dental office would have to charge for an NTI if > they sent it to the lab each time. Your office time doubles, material cost > triples, and you have the lab fee. What would be the point? Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 I've sent a few to Keller - they were for patients still in orthodontic retention so I had it extended from cuspid to cuspid. Also, I had a regular one made by Keller - don't remember why, maybe I ran out of the regular ones that day - it looked very nice but I ended up relining it anyway. carabelli > Be nice to me -- I had to put my 12-year-old dog to sleep > yesterday, and the tears won't stop. But I made it through the > appointment without crying. > > Eva I'm very sorry for the loss of your dog. Webby > In article <1174508726.779934.10...@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Webby Thanks, Webby. It's rough. He was a very special boy. Eva No real reason to get impressions for an NTI. They are usually made directly in your mouth and delivered back to you on the same appointment (why have pain for two more weeks?!?). You must be getting the Keller Lab version, which is OK, but is more expensive and unnecessary in most cases. My pets are OK, but my 20 yo son broke his wrist in a college baseball game today. :-( Steve > Well, I got the impressions done today. I expressed my concern about > any difficulty getting that thing out of my mouth. The very nice lady [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Eva > No real reason to get impressions for an NTI. They are usually > made directly in your mouth and delivered back to you on the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > :-( > Steve Well, I am -- as usual -- at a disadvantage here. I have to go with what the professional says. I thought I'd get the device right away, too. The doc told me that they take the impressions, which included a separate one of just my bite, and work them to see how my teeth fit together and how my bite works. I dunno. There are only two places in my area who even make this device. I've got to go with what I know to do. It is expensive -- $379. It's a little frustrating, I think. The doc just talked to me about 5 minutes, and then the lady who works for him took over. I'm sorry your son got hurt. I hope he heals really fast. Remember to take the time to appreciate those pets while you have them. Eva I charge $450 for them, book 40 minutes, and the patient leaves with it in their mouth. The 40 minutes includes time walking from waiting room, opening up instruments, saying hello, etc. Actual fabrication takes about 15-20 minutes. Signature/ Amatus / >> No real reason to get impressions for an NTI. They are usually >> made directly in your mouth and delivered back to you on the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Eva > I charge $450 for them, book 40 minutes, and the patient leaves with it in > their mouth. The 40 minutes includes time walking from waiting room, > opening up instruments, saying hello, etc. Actual fabrication takes about > 15-20 minutes. > > Amatus Well, I don't know what to say. I didn't have much of a choice. I'm pedalling as fast as I can here. I couldn't exactly wrestle him to the ground and demand he make it for me now. I've gotta go with the flow. Eva > > I charge $450 for them, book 40 minutes, and the patient leaves with it in > > their mouth. The 40 minutes includes time walking from waiting room, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Eva If posters here in smd had advised you to ask ahead of time if the NTI would be fabricated chairside, would that have made any difference to your choices of which dentist to go to? I have no idea where you live or how many dentists are near enough to you to have allowed you some choices. Webby > In article <1174588033.825295.177...@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Webby I don't think I know how to answer this. I found out about the device here, and I asked questions. I don't think anybody told me to make sure it would be made right there and then. They might have and I just don't remember. There are only two places in my area who were on that website for the NTI. I chose the one the dentist in town was familiar with and said was good. How else can a person who knows nothing about this make a choice? I don't know why it would make a difference if the device was made right there or was made in a lab. Does that mean it won't be as good? I'm trying real hard here to solve my problems, and my brain is a little foggy with grief. I kinda feel like the response was to criticize the way this doc provides the device. I have to just trust him and do what he says. Y'all aren't here to hold my hand or go with me, so I'm on my own. If I sound a bit crabby, it's because I'm frustrated now. I did the best I could. Eva >> In article <1174588033.825295.177...@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > >Eva Look you did just fine. An NTI no matter if made chairside or in a lab is far superior to any other device out there. It's just that most of us docs here that make them, make them chairside. As long as it's made correctly it doesn't matter where or who made it. > Look you did just fine. An NTI no matter if made chairside or > in a lab is far superior to any other device out there. > > It's just that most of us docs here that make them, make > them chairside. As long as it's made correctly it doesn't matter > where or who made it. Thank you for this. I was starting to really worry that the thing might not work now after I waited so long to get into town and get this done. I guess I call the thing they did an impression -- maybe the wrong term. The gal filled a tray with this sticky blue stuff and held it there in place for less than two minutes. She did this top and bottom, and then took what was like a caulking gun and put it on my bottom teeth and told me to bite down on it. This was supposed to help them see how my teeth fit together and help them "work" the device to see how to construct it. I understand the docs here have a different view, but I am not a professional and can't have the same undetstanding you guys do. I do feel better now that you said the dratted thing would still work well. The doc I saw says 1 in 100 have poor results. Eva The end result should be the same. A point of view from behind the scenes says it doesn't make sense to send it to the lab. Since most of the time spent fitting it is done to adapt to the particulars of the mouth and bite, which cannot be viewed by the lab, it seems a waste of time to send it to the lab. However, not all dentists think the same way. A lot of dentists think I am nuts for spending 45 minutes in my dental office lab setting up denture teeth, when I could have sent that to a commercial laboratory. Signature/ Amatus / >> In article <1174588033.825295.177...@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, >> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Eva Unfortunately, it seems that most of us ASSUMED it would be made chairside and delivered to you during your appointment. My bad; never heard of Keller, > Unfortunately, it seems that most of us ASSUMED it would be made > chairside and delivered to you during your appointment. My bad; never > heard of Keller, Never heard of Keller??? ....... hmmmmmm. Webby The important thing is that he has heard of Boyd! ;-) Steve >>Unfortunately, it seems that most of us ASSUMED it would be made >>chairside and delivered to you during your appointment. My bad; never [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Webby > The important thing is that he has heard of Boyd! > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > > Webby That's right!!! And we (the oldtimers of smd) can say "we knew him when..." Webby >> The important thing is that he has heard of Boyd! >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Webby Have heard of Helen Blind Melvin? Steve >>>>Never heard of Keller??? ....... hmmmmmm. > Have heard of Helen Did you mean this ? http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/2000/20020724/msgs/565.html or this ? http://forum1.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=380135&page=1 >Blind Melvin? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >> Have heard of Helen He is a lot taller in person than he appears on email. Signature/ Amatus / > >> The important thing is that he has heard of Boyd! [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Webby > He is a lot taller in person than he appears on email. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > > > Webby Hahaha... I thought you were writing that we knew him when he was a lot taller .... W. When I met him for breakfast, I felt like a midget standing next to him. >> He is a lot taller in person than he appears on email. >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > W. > Unfortunately, it seems that most of us ASSUMED it would be made > chairside and delivered to you during your appointment. My bad; never > heard of Keller, Now you have.... ;-) Webby >> I charge $450 for them, book 40 minutes, and the patient leaves with it in >> their mouth. The 40 minutes includes time walking from waiting room, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Eva Though that would have made for an interesting headline. > >Well, I don't know what to say. I didn't have much of a choice. I'm > >pedalling as fast as I can here. I couldn't exactly wrestle him to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Though that would have made for an interesting headline. Yeah, I think I could've taken him. Eva So long as it fits well and is adjusted properly, you will be fine with it. From point of view one dentist talking to another dentist, I don't see much sense in having a lab make it. Signature/ Amatus / >> I charge $450 for them, book 40 minutes, and the patient leaves with it >> in [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Eva I'm not saying the guy is a quack or isn't going to give you a properly made device. There are a several possibilities for the impression taking. 1. Maybe he just wanted study models to go along with the case and check on those pesky 2nd molar interferences. 2. Maybe he likes the Keller NTI better and just doesn't like to mess with any lab chores. 3. Maybe he isn't using SNAP acrylic and the other acrylics just don't work directly in the mouth. You could make one on the model and let the other acrylic harden completely. 4. Maybe he thinks he is saving money by making his own NTI-like device in his own lab. The pre-formed shells cost about $15 apiece. There is no patent infringement for a dentist to make an entire NTI shaped device from scratch. 5. Maybe he can't read directions or just likes doing things the hard way <VBG>. D > Well, I don't know what to say. I didn't have much of a choice. I'm > pedalling as fast as I can here. I couldn't exactly wrestle him to > the ground and demand he make it for me now. I've gotta go with the > flow. > > Eva Was the impression taken with the small NTI in place filled with nasty smelling acrylic stuff ? If so, what is the lab going to do with the appliance- I thought it's basically finished at that point except for adjusting the lining. Dr. Boyd was kind enough to offer a free replacement NTI for the one that had been made by an unqualified dentist. His colleague took the impression yesterday and also adhered strictly to the 2 minute time limit. The thing came out without too much trouble this time. Unfortunately when testing it for snugness it wedged itself in rather tightly and the dentist and I spent some time removing it. After the adjustment was made it was too loose and we started all over again. 3 fittings in one month- I think that must be some kind of record for a patient, right? Somehow I think this "in-mouth-molding" is just not the best idea out there though, given how simple the soft mouthguard impression was in comparison :-/ On Mar 22, 4:29 pm, "grube...@gmail.com" <grube...@gmail.com> wrote: > Was the impression taken with the small NTI in place filled with nasty > smelling acrylic stuff ? No, it was sticky blue stuff -- no smell. It was just a little tray full of the blue stuff. > If so, what is the lab going to do with the appliance- I thought it's > basically finished at that point except for adjusting the lining. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > there though, given how simple the soft mouthguard impression was in > comparison :-/ I dunno anything anymore. I'm just going to wait till April 5 when I go in and get the actual device. I'm so confused now that I can't even think about it. Eva Definitely some type of indirect fabrication. Either he makes them in house, or sends them the Keller. As long as it is shaped to the right specifications, it will be great. Sometimes a few adjustments are needed no matter who makes it. I say relax (since you can't come to one of 'our' offices to be sure of 'expert care'. <G> Steve > No, it was sticky blue stuff -- no smell. It was just a little tray > full of the blue stuff. > I dunno anything anymore. I'm just going to wait till April 5 when I > go in and get the actual device. I'm so confused now that I can't > even think about it. > > Eva > No, it was sticky blue stuff -- no smell. It was just a little tray > full of the blue stuff. > I dunno anything anymore. I'm just going to wait till April 5 when I > go in and get the actual device. I'm so confused now that I can't > even think about it. I don't think you should worry at all. You didn't have to deal with the nasty stuff and the lab can hopefully ensure the right kind of fit from the impression, maybe without your dentist having to do further adjustments. Plus you got it for "cheap". The only downside is that you'll have to wait 2 weeks.
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