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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / March 2007do-it-yourself, self orthodontic by layman, possible?
I'm not sure about exact terms. Maxillary lateral incisors are not aligned (almost correct) with central incisors (rotated back). I will need some aesthetic rotation (not translation, but forward rotation) of my maxillary central incisors (lateral incisors and canines are fine), along with rotating backward all mandibular incisors (not sure about canines). There will not be a problem with occlusion after the movement/rotation. Amount of movement at tips of incisors will be up to 6mm (upper and lower). There is some mandibular crowding, but the maxillary incisors are the only important aestheric change (mandibular rotation is for occlusion). I noticed a patent for "Do-it-yourself orthodontic kit and method" at http://www.freshpatents.com/Do-it-yourself-orthodontic-kit-and-method-dt20060518 ptan20060105287.php I'm not sure if that product is available, or if it would work in my case. It sounds like an Essix retainer. But it got me thinking: It appears that with some assistance I could etch and bond brackets to my own teeth. Has this been done and what are the success rates? Do orthodontists ever bond brackets on themselves? I am not trained in orthodontics and not sure if there are any specific books or other resources that I can use. Looks like R brackets would be the best, but I am not sure if I need banded molar brackets for rotating incisors? Or can less brackets be used and a shorter archwire for changes to incisors only? What would be the duration? 6 months? Looks like a fixed retainer afterwards. Is there a low visibility fixed retainer that can be bonded on the outside of maxillary incisors? Plastic wire? If your only reply is "you are silly. go and pay an orthodontist" don't bother. Anyone that can point me in the right direction here is appreciated. <techcalgary@hotmail.com> wrote in .................. If your only reply is "you are silly. go and pay an orthodontist" > don't bother. Anyone that can point me in the right direction here is > appreciated.... Well, I think,,,,,,,,,nevermind. carabelli > <techcalgary@hotmail.com> wrote in .................. If your only reply is > "you are silly. go and pay an orthodontist" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > carabelli A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. A very little knowledge... Steve  SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >If your only reply is "you are silly. go and pay an orthodontist" >don't bother. Anyone that can point me in the right direction here is >appreciated. Self dental diagnosis is strongly discouraged. Self dental treatment is even more strongly discouraged. There is an old saying in medicine, the doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient. > >If your only reply is "you are silly. go and pay an orthodontist" > >don't bother. Anyone that can point me in the right direction here is [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > There is an old saying in medicine, the doctor who treats > himself has a fool for a patient. Ha ha, disappointing. I'm not self diagnosed, I've had dental and orthodontic work before, and incompetence is why I'm left with ugly buck teech and an underbite. You know, something like "if you use the wrong archwire and put too much force on your teeth, you'll lose them" or "if you have no experience etching you'll take off the enamel and lose your teeth" was be the kind of useful advice I'd hoped for. But instead I get f.cking morons. I know there have been successful self appendectomies with local anesthetic, orthodontic can't be that bad. The orthodontists in my area won't do what patients ask them to do, and the 3 minutes the spend with a patient is expensive. I'm not a moron but I guess you'll never be convinced. The dumbass replies I've received will make me do it in spite of you, even if I end up with implants. I KNOW there are orthodontists and orthodontic students out there that could help. I won't sue you for malpractise. If you have to reply to tell me I'm a fool, then give me some intelligent reasons not to do it. If a GP can't treat himself, then he's not a doctor I'd ever want to care for me. What about the "Do-it-yourself orthodontic kit and method" retainers? Is that product available? On Mar 19, 4:07 pm, techcalg...@hotmail.com wrote: > > >If your only reply is "you are silly. go and pay an orthodontist" > > >don't bother. Anyone that can point me in the right direction here is [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > What about the "Do-it-yourself orthodontic kit and method" retainers? > Is that product available? It is possible to bond brackets and move teeth oneself. Although I doubt you can do it. I know some dentists that have done it and it was difficult for them but not impossible They also had assistants and all the dental equipment to help. I do not see why you can't find somebody to fix your problem and save yourself the consequences of not knowing what you are doing. You can mess yourself up pretty bad and you are lacking x-ray equipment etc... to do the job right. You seem to know more than average amount of dental terminology for a lay person but that is not enough. Over the internet nobody is going to tell you how to treat yourself without actually seeing you. And nobody wants to take on the liability for telling you that you are qualified to treat yourself. It does not matter if you sign a consent or a release of liability form, if this hits the fan and the police get in the picture it will not be pleasant for anyone. I do not see you doing this yourself. If for example your treatment would involve air rotor stripping, I can not imagine anyone doing this on themselves especially someone how does not have hand control or has never drilled on a tooth. I strongly encourage you to seek an orthodontist. <techcalgary@hotmail.com> wrote ............. I know there have been successful self > appendectomies with local anesthetic............... wimp carabelli This person wanted someone to tell them how smart he is and what a great idea he has. What is the matter with everyone. Tell him! While he is at it, he could build a rocket ship in his barn to explore Mars. What could NASA possibly know that he could not do with a mysterious kit he could buy? ................ ..................... Sorry for the sarcasm, but what you want to do is just not going to work out *remotely* well. Most general dentists don't want to mess with orthodontics on their own patients. They don't want to mess with the complexity of proper diagnosis, planning, and treatment. And, they already have trained their fine motor skills to perform these types of tasks, have trained staff, and the equipment needed to do the bonding. Signature/ Amatus / >> >> >If your only reply is "you are silly. go and pay an orthodontist" [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > What about the "Do-it-yourself orthodontic kit and method" retainers? > Is that product available? "Amatus Cremona" <Nicola@sottovocce.com> wrote...........While he is at it, he could build a rocket ship in his barn ............ Sounds like a great idea for a movie carabelli > I KNOW there are orthodontists and orthodontic students out there that > could help. I won't sue you for malpractise. If you have to reply to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > What about the "Do-it-yourself orthodontic kit and method" retainers? > Is that product available? To my knowledge, what you ask for is not available. I have done a limited amount of minor orthodontic treatment over my 27 years of practice. These were simple one or two tooth cases with room to achieve a satisfactory result. I had a class II bite and I was wearing the lingual surfaces of my maxillary incisors to the point that I knew I would need to at least have them crowned before I was 40 without ortho. Two of my kids needed ortho. Did I try and treat myself or either of my kids? No f-ing way! If you have been treated previously and are not happy with the results, it is *extremely* unlikely that you could correct the problems that even a mediocre orthodontist could not (even if you were e-mailing X-rays and photos to Carabelli and he were e-mailing instructions back!). I know that I probably couldn't do it myself. The chances of damaging your teeth, even to the point of causing tooth loss is very real. The chances of having a successful outcome are pretty low. Sounds like a sucker bet to me. D No ARS needed, mandibular crowding is not a problem aesthetically, just the rotation for treatment of underbite. Actually there is enough room, already had some reshaping done. I have damage to an upper and a lower incisor. Crowns and eventually implants might be needed either way. Sorry for getting angry, didn't want to hear dismissive or sarcastic replies. This isn't surgery, the police won't get involved, obviously I didn't expect an orthodontist to "guide me" through the procedure and that isn't really what I was asking for. I have X rays but they don't tell me anything that I don't already know. What I wanted was technical reasons why I shouldn't do it, because obviously if I'm crazy enough to do it anyway, that advice might prevent me from causing myself too many problems. The most serious problem that I can see is losing some enamel. An optimum result is what I want obviously. I know this doesn't sound like a "smart" idea, even to me. But it is interesting. No offence to orthodontists, but my case is probably one of the easiest. Of course a professional orthodontist would want to move everything and reconstruct my jaw ;) I wouldn't even consider it if it involved ARS, translations, reshaping, anything with molars, TMJ treatment or whatever you can think of. They take experience. But I'm not completely convinced that I couldn't do it. Keep trying. > > What about the "Do-it-yourself orthodontic kit and method" retainers? > > Is that product available? > > To my knowledge, what you ask for is not available. Too bad, it sounds like it might work for very minor aesthetic corrections. [snip] > I wouldn't even consider it if it involved ARS, translations, > reshaping, anything with molars, TMJ treatment or whatever you can > think of. They take experience. But I'm not completely convinced that > I couldn't do it. Keep trying. I'll sleep much better knowing that you wouldn't even consider doing "this" yourself if it involved "TMJ treatment". Whew! I was really worried about that part. Webby > > > What about the "Do-it-yourself orthodontic kit and method" retainers? > > > Is that product available? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Too bad, it sounds like it might work for very minor aesthetic > corrections. Webby, this person is clearly a N-C. He is only interested in reading postings which support his ridiculous ideas. Anyone who disagrees is dismissed or insulted. Reminds me of someone else.................. Signature/ Amatus / > > [snip] [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> Too bad, it sounds like it might work for very minor aesthetic >> corrections. > Webby, this person is clearly a N-C. He is only interested in reading > postings which support his ridiculous ideas. Anyone who disagrees is > dismissed or insulted. Reminds me of someone else.................. Good thing I don't "disagree" then... ;-) Webby > / > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >> Too bad, it sounds like it might work for very minor aesthetic > >> corrections. > Webby, this person is clearly a N-C. He is only interested in reading > postings which support his ridiculous ideas. Anyone who disagrees is > dismissed or insulted. Reminds me of someone else.................. > I'll sleep much better knowing that you wouldn't even consider doing > "this" yourself if it involved "TMJ treatment". Whew! I was really > worried about that part. Why don't you tell us your real objection instead of idiotic carcastic replies. You know, I should've said that I HOPED for intelligent replies, but I EXPECTED retards like you two. I guess since nobody can give me a remotely convincing reason not to, I will do it. I'll keep everyone updated, just to satisfy you if I hurt myself, or to satisfy myself if it works. Not like you care. I know you'll have even worse opinions of me when I say: Those homeopathy "crazies" are right about organized dentistry after all. N-C Signature/ Amatus / >> Webby, this person is clearly a N-C. He is only interested in reading >> postings which support his ridiculous ideas. Anyone who disagrees is [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > say: Those homeopathy "crazies" are right about organized dentistry > after all. On Mar 19, 1:24 pm, techcalg...@hotmail.com wrote: > If your only reply is "you are silly. go and pay an orthodontist" > don't bother. Anyone that can point me in the right direction here is > appreciated. Dental colleges offer reduced prices b/c it's the under-grads who work on you. I'd advise you start there. And since you seem to know a few useful things, why not ask them to explain what they are doing, why they believe this course of action to be the best and potential problems which could arise. Go home, do your research, then make a second appointment to start the actual procedures. Write your questions down before you go so you don't forget. PS: I'm sure a scouring of Google can eventually turn up what you are asking. But even then, exercise caution with what you read. Just because it's online doesn't make it true. Hello "blue", Are you aware treat the OP is planning to do the work on himself? He does not want to go to a professional to have the procedures done. Signature/ Amatus / > On Mar 19, 1:24 pm, techcalg...@hotmail.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > asking. But even then, exercise caution with what you read. Just > because it's online doesn't make it true. >On Mar 19, 1:24 pm, techcalg...@hotmail.com wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Dental colleges offer reduced prices b/c it's the under-grads who work >on you. Under-grads, really ? Most have graduated college before entering dental school. Orthodontic residents already have their dental degree. The correct terminology is post-doctoral student at the very least. On Mar 19, 4:24 am, techcalg...@hotmail.com wrote: > I'm not sure about exact terms. Maxillary lateral incisors are not > aligned (almost correct) with central incisors (rotated back). I will [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > don't bother. Anyone that can point me in the right direction here is > appreciated. The issue isn't if you can bond your own brackets, it's correcting the malocclusion. While it seems like you can just align the anteriors and keep your posterior occlusion the same, it almost never works like that. Where are you going to get the space to uncrowd your incisors? it's your mouth though, and I"m assuming you're a DDS, so... If you'd like to bond on your own brackets as accurately as possible, look into "indirect bonding". it's a method of placing brackets onto a plaster cast of your teeth, making a suckdown over it and bonding the suckdown (with the brackets inside) onto your own teeth. I highly doubt you or anyone else could place brackets directly in your own mouth with any degree of precision. Indirect is the only way to go.. Even so, I'll bet $100 that once you put that first archwire in, within 3 months, your posterior occlusion will have changed significantly. > On Mar 19, 4:24 am, techcalg...@hotmail.com wrote: >> I'm not sure about exact terms. Maxillary lateral incisors are not [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > it's your mouth though, and I"m assuming you're a DDS, so... You do? I kinda assumed just the opposite... Steve > If you'd like to bond on your own brackets as accurately as possible, > look into "indirect bonding". it's a method of placing brackets onto a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > within 3 months, your posterior occlusion will have changed > significantly. SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 On Mar 19, 4:24 am, techcalg...@hotmail.com wrote: > I'm not sure about exact terms. Maxillary lateral incisors are not > aligned (almost correct) with central incisors (rotated back). I will [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > don't bother. Anyone that can point me in the right direction here is > appreciated. is this mic on? > The issue isn't if you can bond your own brackets, it's correcting the > malocclusion. While it seems like you can just align the anteriors and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > within 3 months, your posterior occlusion will have changed > significantly. I was thinking Bragg, no banding, maybe right-on adhesive or at least something not light activated, phosphoric acid etch. 10 weeks nitinol? then hard wire for another 10 weeks, depends on what else needs to be done, then fixed retainer. Not sure how far back I have to band for just anterior, bonding on molars will be very difficult. No doubt molars will shift a little. Simple rotation makes me think not that much, but I have wisdom teeth crowding in, so we'll see about that later. It's "good enough" vs "best", and best will take an unacceptable amount of time. I don't care, just maxillary incisors are the most visible teeth. Indirect bonding sounds good for accuracy but more setup work and more supplies. Not sure if it will be any easier. Heh maybe I should buy a typodont. No, haven't been accepted for DDS/DMD yet and I think I can't wait that long.. |
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